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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Bindare_Dundat on February 09, 2009, 08:41:58 AM

Title: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on February 09, 2009, 08:41:58 AM


PRIVATE school: $32,000 a year per student.

Mortgage: $96,000 a year.

Co-op maintenance fee: $96,000 a year.

Nanny: $45,000 a year.

We are already at $269,000, and we haven’t even gotten to taxes yet.

Five hundred thousand dollars — the amount President Obama wants to set as the top pay for banking executives whose firms accept government bailout money — seems like a lot, and it is a lot. To many people in many places, it is a princely sum to live on. But in the neighborhoods of New York City and its suburban enclaves where successful bankers live, half a million a year can go very fast.

“As hard as it is to believe, bankers who are living on the Upper East Side making $2 or $3 million a year have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year with credit cards and mortgage bills that are inescapable,” said Holly Peterson, the author of an Upper East Side novel of manners, “The Manny,” and the daughter of Peter G. Peterson, a founder of the equity firm the Blackstone Group. “Five hundred thousand dollars means taking their kids out of private school and selling their home in a fire sale.”

Sure, the solution may seem simple: move to Brooklyn or Hoboken, put the children in public schools and buy a MetroCard. But more than a few of the New York-based financial executives who would have their pay limited are men (and they are almost invariably men) whose identities are entwined with living a certain way in a certain neighborhood west of Third Avenue: a life of private schools, summer houses and charity galas that only a seven-figure income can stretch to cover.

Few are playing sad cellos over the fate of such folk, especially since the collapse of the institutions they run has yielded untold financial pain. But in New York, where a new study from the Center for an Urban Future, a nonprofit research group in Manhattan, estimates it takes $123,322 to enjoy the same middle-class life as someone earning $50,000 in Houston, extricating oneself from steep bills can be difficult.

Therefore, even if it is not for sympathy but for sport, consider the numbers.

The cold hard math can be cruel.

Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 09:20:59 AM
wow - so I guess the conclusion is that everyone who lives in NYC must currently make more than $500k.
I mean the only way to live there is to own a multi-million dollar co-op and put your kid in private school, etc..
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 09:29:51 AM
wow - so I guess the conclusion is that everyone who lives in NYC must currently make more than $500k.
I mean the only way to live there is to own a multi-million dollar co-op and put your kid in private school, etc..

No.  Most of us live in the bouroughs or the immediate suburbs and work like dogs for a lot less.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: SAMSON123 on February 09, 2009, 09:44:22 AM

PRIVATE school: $32,000 a year per student.

Mortgage: $96,000 a year.

Co-op maintenance fee: $96,000 a year.

Nanny: $45,000 a year.

We are already at $269,000, and we haven’t even gotten to taxes yet.

Five hundred thousand dollars — the amount President Obama wants to set as the top pay for banking executives whose firms accept government bailout money — seems like a lot, and it is a lot. To many people in many places, it is a princely sum to live on. But in the neighborhoods of New York City and its suburban enclaves where successful bankers live, half a million a year can go very fast.

“As hard as it is to believe, bankers who are living on the Upper East Side making $2 or $3 million a year have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year with credit cards and mortgage bills that are inescapable,” said Holly Peterson, the author of an Upper East Side novel of manners, “The Manny,” and the daughter of Peter G. Peterson, a founder of the equity firm the Blackstone Group. “Five hundred thousand dollars means taking their kids out of private school and selling their home in a fire sale.”

Sure, the solution may seem simple: move to Brooklyn or Hoboken, put the children in public schools and buy a MetroCard. But more than a few of the New York-based financial executives who would have their pay limited are men (and they are almost invariably men) whose identities are entwined with living a certain way in a certain neighborhood west of Third Avenue: a life of private schools, summer houses and charity galas that only a seven-figure income can stretch to cover.

Few are playing sad cellos over the fate of such folk, especially since the collapse of the institutions they run has yielded untold financial pain. But in New York, where a new study from the Center for an Urban Future, a nonprofit research group in Manhattan, estimates it takes $123,322 to enjoy the same middle-class life as someone earning $50,000 in Houston, extricating oneself from steep bills can be difficult.

Therefore, even if it is not for sympathy but for sport, consider the numbers.

The cold hard math can be cruel.



GEE I am sure the public feels absolute sympathy for this scum that is making a  case that these THIEVES should be compensated a bonus of more than 500,000 dollars. Oh how sad!!!

I say HANG 'EM from every high tree, light pole, and sky scraper for stealing as they have and destroying the economy like they have....
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: headhuntersix on February 09, 2009, 09:47:28 AM
These are extreme if not ridiculous examples...Uncle Sam needs to butt out all together.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 09:48:11 AM
No.  Most of us live in the bouroughs or the immediate suburbs and work like dogs for a lot less.

Would you be able to scrape by on 500k?
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 09:51:34 AM
Would you be able to scrape by on 500k?

I can live a great life on half of that.  Its just that I keep my spending at reasonable levels.

This article is insane.  No one needs all that garbage.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 09:54:27 AM
These are extreme if not ridiculous examples...Uncle Sam needs to butt out all together.

I have no problem with compensation caps for any company that was bailed out by the taxpayer.  If nothing else it incentivizes these companies to pay back the tax payer (which I thinkn some have already talked about doing) and hopefully they'll be more prudent going forward to avoid the temptation to line up for more handouts from the US taxpayer.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 09:57:18 AM
TARP was a bad idea in the first place and is setting the stage for even worse "fixes" to come.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: grab an umbrella on February 09, 2009, 10:39:09 AM
I have no problem with compensation caps for any company that was bailed out by the taxpayer.  If nothing else it incentivizes these companies to pay back the tax payer (which I thinkn some have already talked about doing) and hopefully they'll be more prudent going forward to avoid the temptation to line up for more handouts from the US taxpayer.

Think about the concept of what you are saying here.  This is just another step for the government to take more control of the private sector.  Its funny because of how slickly it's disguised.  It sounds like such a great idea, I mean really, who doesn't want to "stick it to the fat cats". 
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 12:01:45 PM
TARP was a bad idea in the first place and is setting the stage for even worse "fixes" to come.

Get ready because they might going back to the original plan which was to take trouble/toxic assets off the balance sheets of these banks to put into a "bad bank" repository or even follow the Swedish model which I believed wiped out the shareholders value athough in the end I think the govt actually made a slight profit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?em   
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 12:07:00 PM
Get ready because they might going back to the original plan which was to take trouble/toxic assets off the balance sheets of these banks to put into a "bad bank" repository or even follow the Swedish model which I believed wiped out the shareholders value athough in the end I think the govt actually made a slight profit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?em   

And what about the first 350 billion?????????

Theft!!!!
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 12:07:48 PM
Think about the concept of what you are saying here.  This is just another step for the government to take more control of the private sector.  Its funny because of how slickly it's disguised.  It sounds like such a great idea, I mean really, who doesn't want to "stick it to the fat cats". 

so you think it's ok for the govt to hand out your tax dollars to bail out a bank and then put absolutely no restrictions on how the company compensates it's executives.....the very people who drove the company into the ground and wouldn't even have a job if it weren't for our tax $$$'s.

I think they should just refuse the tax payer funded bailout and go bankrupt instead.  That would actually be my preference.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: grab an umbrella on February 09, 2009, 12:08:43 PM
so you think it's ok for the govt to hand out your tax dollars to bail out a bank and then put absolutely no restrictions on how the company compensates it's executives.....the very people who drove the company into the ground and wouldn't even have a job if it weren't for our tax $$$'s.

I think they should just refuse the tax payer funded bailout and go bankrupt instead.  That would actually be my preference.

I completely agree with the fact that the bailouts were stupid.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 12:11:46 PM
I completely agree with the fact that the bailouts were stupid.

They set a TERRIBLE precedent. 
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: IFBBwannaB on February 09, 2009, 12:28:45 PM
Unless I missed it we are only talking about the BONUS,don't forget....BONUS...500K.. BONUS...no one said they can't have a 1M salary.

I might have missed the part about the whole salary.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2009, 12:30:26 PM
Unless I missed it we are only talking about the BONUS,don't forget....BONUS...500K.. BONUS...no one said they can't have a 1M salary.

I might have missed the part about the whole salary.

???

the 500k limit includes all bonuses and divvies.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 12:42:04 PM
???

the 500k limit includes all bonuses and divvies.

I think they can still get stock options but can't exercise them until the govt is paid back.

I imagine they will find loopholes for deferred comp, etc..
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 12:44:43 PM
Unless I missed it we are only talking about the BONUS,don't forget....BONUS...500K.. BONUS...no one said they can't have a 1M salary.

I might have missed the part about the whole salary.

I thought it was total compensation with stock options only capable of being exercised after tax $$'s are paid in full.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2009, 12:46:21 PM
Socialist garbage.  Maybe the government should regulate the salaries of every business that gets tax credits.   ::)  Very dangerous precedent. 
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 12:54:28 PM
Socialist garbage.  Maybe the government should regulate the salaries of every business that gets tax credits.   ::)  Very dangerous precedent. 

there's just a slight difference btw giving a company a tax credit and pumping in cash to keep the company from going BK.

Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 12:58:42 PM
there's just a slight difference btw giving a company a tax credit and pumping in cash to keep the company from going BK.



Both are delaying the inevitable.

Taxpayers should not have to prop up failed and fraudulent businesses.

We are paying enough now.  GWB and Obama should both F themselves for trying to put more of this garbage on our backs.   
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2009, 12:59:18 PM
there's just a slight difference btw giving a company a tax credit and pumping in cash to keep the company from going BK.



yes.  those CEOs are saying "I need to borrow your grandchildren's money, or my business will fail."

IMO they should be wearing tattoos on their foreheads that say "I suck".  If they don't want the tat, don't ask for free money.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: IFBBwannaB on February 09, 2009, 01:35:41 PM
I think they can still get stock options but can't exercise them until the govt is paid back.

I imagine they will find loopholes for deferred comp, etc..

Well...there is still plain old salary each month....they can still pump it up and in reality keep the situation like it always was, not to mention the other loopholes they can find quite easily.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: grab an umbrella on February 09, 2009, 01:42:50 PM
Well...there is still plain old salary each month....they can still pump it up and in reality keep the situation like it always was, not to mention the other loopholes they can find quite easily.

Okay here is the problem.  It sounds great in theory to limit these jackasses salaries, afterall they are afloat because we the taxpayer kept them there.  Now the problem is we as Americans become comfortable with the notion that limiting salaries is okay.  It's a very slippery slope and a tool that the government uses to gain new power.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 01:45:10 PM
Okay here is the problem.  It sounds great in theory to limit these jackasses salaries, afterall they are afloat because we the taxpayer kept them there.  Now the problem is we as Americans become comfortable with the notion that limiting salaries is okay.  It's a very slippery slope and a tool that the government uses to gain new power.

It's not slippery at all.

No one is going to limit salaries of private companies and in public companies the board (as always) has control over executive compensation
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 01:47:53 PM
The Obama administration is expected to impose a cap of $500,000 for top executives at companies that receive large amounts of bailout money, according to people familiar with the plan.

Executives would also be prohibited from receiving any bonuses above their base pay, except for normal stock dividends

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/business/04pay.html
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
The Obama administration is expected to impose a cap of $500,000 for top executives at companies that receive large amounts of bailout money, according to people familiar with the plan.

Executives would also be prohibited from receiving any bonuses above their base pay, except for normal stock dividends

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/business/04pay.html


This really is an asnine plan. 

You are going to have middle managers and "rainmakers" making way more than the executives.

   
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2009, 02:03:43 PM
Okay here is the problem.  It sounds great in theory to limit these jackasses salaries, afterall they are afloat because we the taxpayer kept them there.  Now the problem is we as Americans become comfortable with the notion that limiting salaries is okay.  It's a very slippery slope and a tool that the government uses to gain new power.

Exactly.  I can't believe this thing is making headway.  If he actually goes through with this, there will be a much smaller leap to more government interference/control in the private sector. 
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 02:15:35 PM
Exactly.  I can't believe this thing is making headway.  If he actually goes through with this, there will be a much smaller leap to more government interference/control in the private sector. 

I think what is going to happen, which is not a bad thing, is that new banks will emerge.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: grab an umbrella on February 09, 2009, 02:16:19 PM
I think what is going to happen, which is not a bad thing, is that new banks will emerge.

Lets do away with the FED...right now.  Private banks control america's money.  Does this concern anyone other than me?
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 02:21:27 PM
Exactly.  I can't believe this thing is making headway.  If he actually goes through with this, there will be a much smaller leap to more government interference/control in the private sector. 

you seem paranoid
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: newmom on February 09, 2009, 02:23:38 PM
I lived in NYC for years and right outside in nj for years and didnt make close to that
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: grab an umbrella on February 09, 2009, 02:24:10 PM
you seem paranoid

Straw how can you not see this as more government control.  They already control almost every aspect of our lives, now they want to control every part of free market.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2009, 02:27:52 PM
I think what is going to happen, which is not a bad thing, is that new banks will emerge.

I hope so.  And I hope they are better run. 

What we might also see is more government run businesses. 
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 02:28:00 PM
Straw how can you not see this as more government control.  They already control almost every aspect of our lives, now they want to control every part of free market.

I'm not worried about it.

This is hardly trying to control "every part of the free market" (which doesn't exist anyway)

How would the govt possibly justify restricting pay in a company (public or private) in any way?

This is an extraordinary case and I think totally justified (IMO)

Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: grab an umbrella on February 09, 2009, 02:30:46 PM
I'm not worried about it.

This is hardly trying to control "every part of the free market" (which doesn't exist anyway)

How would the govt possibly justify restricting pay in a company (public or private) in any way?

This is an extraordinary case and I think totally justified (IMO)



Look at how the government operates dude.  Just look at income tax.  Do you know how that evolved?
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 02:41:02 PM
Look at how the government operates dude.  Just look at income tax.  Do you know how that evolved?

Because its Obama he has no prob with it.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2009, 02:46:15 PM
Because its Obama he has no prob with it.

I have no problem with it (the restriction on banks/companies the we bailed out) because I think it's justified.

Don't worry - I'm sure I'll have plenty of problems with stuff that Obama does (I already do in fact) but this isnt' one of them.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on February 09, 2009, 08:13:27 PM
Straw how can you not see this as more government control.  They already control almost every aspect of our lives, now they want to control every part of free market.

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC may have to be forced into bankruptcy by the U.S. government to assure repayment of $17.4 billion in federal bailout loans, a course of action the automakers claim would destroy them.

U.S. taxpayers currently take a backseat to prior creditors, including Citigroup Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., according to loan agreements posted on the U.S. Treasury’s Web site. The government has hired a law firm to help establish its place at the front of the line for repayment, two people involved in the work said last week.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2009, 08:18:59 PM
I have no problem with it (the restriction on banks/companies the we bailed out) because I think it's justified.

Don't worry - I'm sure I'll have plenty of problems with stuff that Obama does (I already do in fact) but this isnt' one of them.

Check out Obama's new health czar info scheme.  This is really getting scary.
Title: Re: You Try to Live on 500K in New York.
Post by: IFBBwannaB on February 09, 2009, 09:52:16 PM
Okay here is the problem.  It sounds great in theory to limit these jackasses salaries, afterall they are afloat because we the taxpayer kept them there.  Now the problem is we as Americans become comfortable with the notion that limiting salaries is okay.  It's a very slippery slope and a tool that the government uses to gain new power.


Salary control in GOVERMENT OWNED companies is fine by me, private companies can do their own thing.

Actually, more control to the share holders in public companies is good too, usually the small share holders get fucked by the greedy directors :(