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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on February 17, 2009, 10:09:52 PM
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MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen
I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."
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MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen
I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."
I dont really like this imho you will have reporters politicize these images...the falling of a soldier is a personal matter with family and friends and shouldnt be made public unless the family deems it ok.
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MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen
I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."
I'd prefer he just bring all the soilders back home and have the news take pictures of that. All these over extensions of resources are not helping the economy and it's been 8 years already. I don't hear many people talking about Bin Laden anymore, everyone's thinking about not losing their job, not some guy in a cave. I could be wrong, but how is seeing dead soilders coming back and another long drawn out war suppose to lift the spirits of Americans?
Isn't Bin Laden suppose to be dead anyway? :-\
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I dont really like this imho you will have reporters politicize these images...the falling of a soldier is a personal matter with family and friends and shouldnt be made public unless the family deems it ok.
Yes it was better when Bush was sweeping everything under the carpet.
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Obama is already making Bush look like Ebineezer Scrooge.
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Yes it was better when Bush was sweeping everything under the carpet.
bush was keeping a private event fuking private dumbass these soldiers should not be used for political gains which you know they will be.
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Nobody has the right to see these guys but the families...I hope the people at Dover do everything in their power to make sure the media does not get access. Obama officially became a scumbag.
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bush was keeping a private event fuking private dumbass these soldiers should not be used for political gains which you know they will be.
seems you guys are saying he wants it both ways, I've heard he wants to escalate the war from you guys and now he wants to use them for political gain; the only political side to this is making the war more unpopular than it is and it ending. So which is it, you can't have it both ways.
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He's sending more troops to Afghanistan.....so either he wants more dead soldiers to showcase or he's an incompetent moron. I vote number 2. I can only hope that most of the media will choose not to film. If these guys want access to the military they will respect the families.
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John Barry..Newsweek
I saw the coffins arrive by accident. I was at Dover Air Force Base a couple of years ago pursuing another story on my Pentagon beat, and a senior Air Force officer took me to watch the giant C-17 arrive and discharge its melancholy cargo. The scene was off the record; no press or photographers allowed. As I recall, there were six coffins and a few small clumps of civilians to receive them. One by one the flag-draped coffins slid down from the nose of the cargo plane, and one by one the coffins were shepherded by an honor guard—a half dozen soldiers in dress uniforms and white gloves—to waiting hearses. One or two elderly people wept; everyone else was stoical. There were no bugles. No bands. There was no pageantry—just the heavy tread of the honor guard in a ritual perfected through much repetition. It was an event so moving in its intimacy and restraint, out there on the acres of concrete, that I felt an intruder. I was glad there were no waiting cameras and flashbulbs.
Last week President Obama was asked if he'd reverse the ban on media at Dover. Somewhat haltingly, he announced that he was reviewing the policy and, sure enough, Defense Secretary Robert Gates confirmed that he'd launched a review the instant he heard President Obama's remarks. A congressman, Walter Jones of North Carolina, has introduced a bill to lift the press ban, and there is a widespread feeling that cameras should be allowed to witness the returning coffins as a way of reminding the public of the cost of war.
In truth, it's not an easy issue. It never has been. For many years, dead soldiers were buried where they fell, or close to, at home or abroad. Arlington National Cemetery got its start as an act of vengeance: it was the site of a family home of the Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, and a Union general, tasked with burying the Union dead, supposedly said, "We'll plant them in Bobby Lee's front lawn." It wasn't until the Korean War that the United States started routinely shipping bodies home. The Dover ceremony became familiar to the public in the 1980s, in part because President Reagan was such an affecting figure mourning the dead as they were returned from Lebanon or other locations where U.S. soldiers were dying. On the eve of ground combat in the first Gulf war in 1991, the administration of George H.W. Bush grappled with a grisly question: war planners were expecting so many combat fatalities that they worried that the military would have to use forklifts and pallets at Dover. President Bush instituted the camera ban, which persists to this day.
The military loves rules, and the Army's Regulation 638-2 covering "Care and Disposition of Remains and Disposition of Personal Effects" runs to 147 dense pages. Something called "Timeline: Death Cases" lists 16 steps, from the first frantic message that a soldier is dead to helping the bereaved family apply for benefits. Dover is step six: "Remains shipped to preparing mortuary." Dover houses one of the military's two mortuaries (the other is at Travis Air Force Base in California). Dead soldiers, their bodies sometimes torn and bloody from the battlefield, are packed in ice, placed in a casket and flown directly to Dover, where they are cared for. Then the body is sent on to the soldier's hometown for a military funeral—with plenty of publicity if the family wishes to allow it.
The military's aim is to move the bodies from the battlefield to Dover in two days. If cameras are present to greet the caskets, there will be a great deal of pressure on the families to be there, too—an emotional and financial hardship for many. Some may want a public ceremony; some may want privacy and silence. Is there a better way to honor their privacy and meet their needs while making sure the public is reminded of the price of war? Canada may have an answer. The more than 100 Canadian soldiers who have fallen in combat in Afghanistan have been flown to Trenton air base, then driven 107 miles to the mortuary in Toronto. A stretch of Canada's Highway 401 has become known as the Highway of Heroes. When the military hearse drives down it, all other traffic is blocked; police and fire trucks, lights flashing, line each overpass, and hundreds of Canadians, flags in hand, wait along the highway. Perhaps fallen American soldiers could arrive at Andrews Air Force Base— with the sort of quiet, dignified ceremony I chanced to witness—and then be carried by hearse (anonymously; no family need be present) to the mortuary at Dover, 102 miles away by road and highway. The route could pass by the White House.
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I still have no freaking clue why we are fighting in Afganistan if we are not shoring up our border, deporting illegals,
going after visa overstays from the ME, etc.
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Nobody has the right to see these guys but the families...I hope the people at Dover do everything in their power to make sure the media does not get access. Obama officially became a scumbag.
well, I assume you're extending the scumbag rating to Reagan, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Carter.
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911 was launched from Afghanistan....Bush wanted to crush the AQ camps and defeat the Taliban which sheltered them. Thats been accomplished, however the Taliban are in the Pakistani border regions and AQ has fled Iraq and regrouped there. Now we're basically stomping on them when they raise there head. Its not an easy process.
I don't agree at all that the media needs to be present. Further, we weren't at war under Reagan and the times he went to Dover and met caskets, it was a big deal..ie Marine barracks in Leb... I think kennedy was an idiot as well as Johnson. Nixon ended Vietnam..and the number one reason u can't compare the two....is that we exist in a 24 hour news cycle, the left wing media has no shame and would be camped out at Dover if Bush was still president. I have no doubt scumbags from the Daily Kos would film caskets.
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seems you guys are saying he wants it both ways, I've heard he wants to escalate the war from you guys and now he wants to use them for political gain; the only political side to this is making the war more unpopular than it is and it ending. So which is it, you can't have it both ways.
i never said he i said they as in the media...this is a private matter wouldnt you agree? these fallen soldiers are the fathers, sons, friends off ppl here in the US and to have their deaths and pictures/videos of their caskets politicized which you know they will be is just fuking wrong plain and simple. We already know when our soldiers fall in iraq or afghanistan their is no need to broadcast their caskets, simply poor taste.
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i never said he i said they as in the media...this is a private matter wouldnt you agree? these fallen soldiers are the fathers, sons, friends off ppl here in the US and to have their deaths and pictures/videos of their caskets politicized which you know they will be is just fuking wrong plain and simple. We already know when our soldiers fall in iraq or afghanistan their is no need to broadcast their caskets, simply poor taste.
Showing them coming home with the flag draped over the coffin isn't disrespectful imo. You guys are acting like they want media access to the funeral. If you guys want a bitch, get that anti-gay tard that shows up at the funerals stopped.
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911 was launched from Afghanistan....Bush wanted to crush the AQ camps and defeat the Taliban which sheltered them. Thats been accomplished, however the Taliban are in the Pakistani border regions and AQ has fled Iraq and regrouped there. Now we're basically stomping on them when they raise there head. Its not an easy process.
I don't agree at all that the media needs to be present. Further, we weren't at war under Reagan and the times he went to Dover and met caskets, it was a big deal..ie Marine barracks in Leb... I think kennedy was an idiot as well as Johnson. Nixon ended Vietnam..and the number one reason u can't compare the two....is that we exist in a 24 hour news cycle, the left wing media has no shame and would be camped out at Dover if Bush was still president. I have no doubt scumbags from the Daily Kos would film caskets.
I don't know whatever you want to call what Reagan did in Latin America but it looked like war to me.
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Showing them coming home with the flag draped over the coffin isn't disrespectful imo. You guys are acting like they want media access to the funeral. If you guys want a bitch, get that anti-gay tard that shows up at the funerals stopped.
that isnt necissarily what im bitching about although i feel it should be up to the individuals family whether or not they show them. Its the fact which you cant deny that these pics/vids will be used in a political arena, you and i know it and so does obama but he said ok anyway. If this pics/vids where to be kept in somber repsect and rememberance of the individual id have less of a problem with it but again you know i know and so does obama that this wont happen and he said ok anyway.
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The media want to show the "cost of war" yeah ok.....I trust the media to do the right thing. This is a political tool for Obama because Dems would rather talk and appease, rather then take action. Obama wants out of Afghanistan because he has to rely on what his generals say as opposed to some political hack from Chicago. He's waaay outside his comfort zone. This should be a non-issue.
Latin America was a shadow war....and off the books. Its really doesn't matter what Reagan did, we're talking now, with the net and cable news and blogs etc....media coverage is much much different.
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that isnt necissarily what im bitching about although i feel it should be up to the individuals family whether or not they show them. Its the fact which you cant deny that these pics/vids will be used in a political arena, you and i know it and so does obama but he said ok anyway. If this pics/vids where to be kept in somber repsect and rememberance of the individual id have less of a problem with it but again you know i know and so does obama that this wont happen and he said ok anyway.
well, if you want to talk about using troops for politics, Bush mastered it and that's wrong! You're flipping out over flagged draped coffins coming home. I can't even see the disrespect in that. There is no political advantage for Obama if he's going to escalate the war like several righties are saying.
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The media want to show the "cost of war" yeah ok.....I trust the media to do the right thing. This is a political tool for Obama because Dems would rather talk and appease, rather then take action. Obama wants out of Afghanistan because he has to rely on what his generals say as opposed to some political hack from Chicago. He's waaay outside his comfort zone. This should be a non-issue.
Latin America was a shadow war....and off the books. Its really doesn't matter what Reagan did, we're talking now, with the net and cable news and blogs etc....media coverage is much much different.
what? I thought you were saying Obama is going to escalate the war? Which is it? The angle that works for the thread title?
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well, if you want to talk about using troops for politics, Bush mastered it and that's wrong! You're flipping out over flagged draped coffins coming home. I can't even see the disrespect in that. There is no political advantage for Obama if he's going to escalate the war like several righties are saying.
how did bush politicize the death of our soldiers? There is for him and his ideology of appeasment isnt there?
Again you are missing the point the disrespect isnt necissarily in showing the caskets it will be in the politicizing of the deaths and using the pics/vids that you know will happen that would only be possible through obamas letting it.
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how did bush politicize the death of our soldiers? There is for him and his ideology of appeasment isnt there?
Again you are missing the point the disrespect isnt necissarily in showing the caskets it will be in the politicizing of the deaths and using the pics/vids that you know will happen that would only be possible through obamas letting it.
Don't change what I said. read again, I didn't say "death of."
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Don't change what I said. read again, I didn't say "death of."
i didnt change it jack ass i thought thats what you where implying...
everybody politicized troops obama did it with his campaign his inaugural ball... ::)
This is a different topic and since you havent denied it you know that this images will be used for political use. Obama knows this and is ok with it personally i think its complete shit and that it should be kept private as it is a private matter.
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i didnt change it jack ass i thought thats what you where implying...
everybody politicized troops obama did it with his campaign his inaugural ball... ::)
This is a different topic and since you havent denied it you know that this images will be used for political use. Obama knows this and is ok with it personally i think its complete shit and that it should be kept private as it is a private matter.
yes you did. you changed what I said. I was talking about the troops and Bush did plenty of politicising of and around the troops. That is wrong imo.
I haven't denied it? What? First I want you righties to get your story straight. He's going to end the war by polilticising flag covered caskets or he's going to escalate the war, which is it? I'm not saying you said it, but I'm getting two messages from the right on this, now which is it?
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The nation needs to see the coffins to realize the extent and cost of Bush's lies and deception over Iraq.
But hey, his idea was "out of sight, out of mind" huh? Now Obama is delivering the news that there is a real cost to this bullshit that Bush started and failed at.
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Obama sends 17,000 more to Afghanastan. Militarily it may be needed, but at what cost...
Obama clearly said troops would be transferred from Iraq, sounds like these soldiers are mostly from the US.
I don't see any good reason to display the caskets of the dead.
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Obama sends 17,000 more to Afghanastan. Militarily it may be needed, but at what cost...
Obama clearly said troops would be transferred from Iraq, sounds like these soldiers are mostly from the US.
I don't see any good reason to display the caskets of the dead.
Poltical prop.
Hey, what is your take on the mortgage plan???
I know what mine is.
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yes you did. you changed what I said. I was talking about the troops and Bush did plenty of politicising of and around the troops. That is wrong imo.
I haven't denied it? What? First I want you righties to get your story straight. He's going to end the war by polilticising flag covered caskets or he's going to escalate the war, which is it? I'm not saying you said it, but I'm getting two messages from the right on this, now which is it?
im not going to comment on you question seeing as it doesnt apply to me b/c i dont believe he is going to politicize the deaths although he has politicized soldiers just like bush so i hope you think thats crap as well...Also if you think thats crap then what makes you think its ok to let ppl politicize the deaths of our soldiers? which will undoubtedly happen with these pics and vids, wouldnt you agree? Obama knows whats going to happen and clearing the road for it this is and i cant stress this enough a PRIVATE moment for family and friends and shouldnt be open to the public especially when the left will use these images to further their cause and again you know they will.
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The nation needs to see the coffins to realize the extent and cost of Bush's lies and deception over Iraq.
But hey, his idea was "out of sight, out of mind" huh? Now Obama is delivering the news that there is a real cost to this bullshit that Bush started and failed at.
Bush was never out of site out of mind...u have no business having access to those coffins...and neither does the media. Um we have won in Iraq...its over deny deny deny all u want..we won.
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Bush was never out of site out of mind...u have no business having access to those coffins...and neither does the media. Um we have won in Iraq...its over deny deny deny all u want..we won.
We won? What did we win? What new freedom did I get? Hmmm? Answers?
Bush = out of sight, out of mind, out of touch.
Don't worry, I am sure Newsweek will certainly be showing the photos of what it cost for Bush to have his "victory" in Iraq with the WMDs, the stable gov't, the exit plan, etc.. that he all brought about.
Oh, and it will be over soon enough when Big Daddy O pulls the troops out.
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Big daddy O can't even find Iraq on a map. After we do pull out...noboby in the services will link Obama and a win in Iraq. Obama is waaaaay out of his league. Well ur right..I won...as American who served. We didn't invade for ur freedom. U guys all wanted us to pull out in 06', just like Barry O shitbag...they had bash him over the head to get him to admit the surge worked.
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bush was keeping a private event fuking private dumbass these soldiers should not be used for political gains which you know they will be.
We all know why he was doing it - he wanted to keep the body count out of the news. If he really cared about these soldiers he would never have sent them in the first place.
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Big daddy O can't even find Iraq on a map. After we do pull out...noboby in the services will link Obama and a win in Iraq. Obama is waaaaay out of his league. Well ur right..I won...as American who served. We didn't invade for ur freedom. U guys all wanted us to pull out in 06', just like Barry O shitbag...they had bash him over the head to get him to admit the surge worked.
You won what? College funds? (glad to hear that)
Why did we invade then? WMDs? Oil? Past vendettas? Hmmm?
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We all know why he was doing it - he wanted to keep the body count out of the news. If he really cared about these soldiers he would never have sent them in the first place.
so obama doesnt care about the 17,000 he is about to send to afghanistan? ::) LOL gezzz its a private event not even 240 the obama butt plug can support this move.
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Don't worry, I am sure Newsweek will certainly be showing the photos of what it cost for Bush to have his "victory" in Iraq with the WMDs, the stable gov't, the exit plan, etc.. that he all brought about.
This statement is a perfect example of why this shouldn't be done. Pure political ploy. Disrespectful to families. I wonder if he consulted families about this?
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This statement is a perfect example of why this shouldn't be done. Pure political ploy. Disrespectful to families. I wonder if he consulted families about this?
Did Bush consult families to get their approval to send their kids off to die for his LIES?
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Did Bush consult families to get their approval to send their kids off to die for his LIES?
He didn't have to consult the families. The adult men and women took an oath to follow the orders of their CIC. He gave them lawful orders. They followed. Those that sacrificed their lives following orders and serving their country shouldn't be paraded so some people can try and score political points.
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what if it was managed on a case-by-case basis?
If the smith family got a call from germany and said 'your fallen child will be arriving tomorrow - do you want to permit cameras to be there'?
Some would want it, some would not. Many of those bitching about the secrecy were the fmailies themselves. Honestly, if a member of my family died in iraq, I think it would be a sad yet amazing moment if the family gathered to see the fallen soldier return. Give that poor brave soul a few moments. just like you salute and parade the returning soldiers. Why hide their fallen brothers like unpleasant inventory being transferred?
Make it a case by case basis. Family chooses. If some twit on a message board thinks he knows better than a soldiers' parents, they can really suck an egg.
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He didn't have to consult the families. The adult men and women took an oath to follow the orders of their CIC. He gave them lawful orders. They followed. Those that sacrificed their lives following orders and serving their country shouldn't be paraded so some people can try and score political points.
Invading Iraq based on LIES is not "serving our country". It is serving the whims of a dishonest idiot. It came with a cost. The American people have the right to see that cost. If you don't want to see the pics, turn the page.
Out of sight, out of mind. Good politics huh? That's why your party is also "out of office."
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Invading Iraq based on LIES is not "serving our country". It is serving the whims of a dishonest idiot. It came with a cost. The American people have the right to see that cost. If you don't want to see the pics, turn the page.
Out of sight, out of mind. Good politics huh? That's why your party is also "out of office."
I don't have a party. In any event, we don't have a "right" to see the coffins of soldiers. Parading the bodies of soldiers who died in combat to try and score political points is disgraceful. I hope Obama comes to his senses on this.
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I think Obama did come to his senses. Which is to systematically dismantle the bush foundation of secrecy, deception, and ignorance.
If you don't like his decision, write your Senator.
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Ah yeah real transparent administration..he's full of shit. And Lurker...I graduated from college a long time ago. When wild Bill was in office and the GI bill covered gas and beer money. Now it actually means something.
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what if it was managed on a case-by-case basis?
If the smith family got a call from germany and said 'your fallen child will be arriving tomorrow - do you want to permit cameras to be there'?
Some would want it, some would not. Many of those bitching about the secrecy were the fmailies themselves. Honestly, if a member of my family died in iraq, I think it would be a sad yet amazing moment if the family gathered to see the fallen soldier return. Give that poor brave soul a few moments. just like you salute and parade the returning soldiers. Why hide their fallen brothers like unpleasant inventory being transferred?
Make it a case by case basis. Family chooses. If some twit on a message board thinks he knows better than a soldiers' parents, they can really suck an egg.
same goes for barry im fine with making it a case by case basis but thats not what obama is doing is it? He is putting these soldiers out there so the left can politicize their deathsm and thats fuking shameful. They arent hiding them like unpleasent inventory you twit they are paying them the respect they deserve by not letting this event be politicized and stand for something other then what it should and thats somber respect for a soldier who gave all and their family and friends.
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The nation needs to see the coffins to realize the extent and cost of Bush's lies and deception over Iraq.
But hey, his idea was "out of sight, out of mind" huh? Now Obama is delivering the news that there is a real cost to this bullshit that Bush started and failed at.
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At least they will get the family's permission.
Official: Pentagon allows coverage of war coffins
From Barbara Starr
CNN Pentagon Correspondent
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Pentagon will lift its longtime ban on media coverage of the flag-draped coffins of war victims arriving at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, according to a senior U.S. defense official with direct knowledge of the decision.
The coverage must be approved by the victims' families, however.
Advocates of opening the base to coverage say the unmarked coffins make it impossible to identify specific remains.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates is to announce the change at a news conference at 2 p.m. ET, the senior official said. He ordered a review after President Obama asked for more information on the long-standing policy.
Though the Defense Department won't confirm it, it is widely accepted that the ban began after the December 1989 U.S. invasion of Panama, which deposed dictator Manuel Noriega.
After a news conference held by President George H.W. Bush, his press secretary made a humorous comment, causing the president and reporters to laugh.
At the same time, viewers were watching coffins of the first casualties from the invasion being unloaded at Dover.
The following year, when the Persian Gulf War began, the Pentagon banned media coverage of war dead being returned to the base.
One of the family members who favors lifting the ban is Karen Meredith of San Francisco, California, who wrote Obama urging him to order the change.
Lt. Ken Ballard left for Iraq on Mother's Day in 2003. He came home in a casket on Memorial Day 2004.
"I wanted the nation to grieve with me, and if we don't see those images we don't know that these young men and women are dying," she told CNN.
"And to me its an honor to have an honor guard at Dover when they're bringing these men and women back through the mortuary. But we've never been able to see those pictures of the honor being given."
Others say the honor should remain private.
"When they come off the plane, these are anonymous caskets. What is the greater good of that," asked Vince Rangel, who was an Army Ranger captain in Vietnam.
"I would rather take that attention and give it everything it deserves at the gravesite in the communities where you can get all that information, so people can understand these people as human beings. Not just as a flag-draped casket that comes out of a plane."
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said about two weeks ago that a good deal of input needed to be collected from a number of sources, including Pentagon offices representing family interests, the Defense Department's public affairs office and the various service branches.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/26/pentagon.media.war.dead/index.html
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So what time is it on teevee?
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MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen
I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."
Funny - yet obama would not allow te pics of OBL.
Dead Osama - no
Dead US Soldiers -Yes.
Nice.
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Funny - yet obama would not allow te pics of OBL.
Dead Osama - no
Dead US Soldiers -Yes.
Nice.
Don't want to upset foreigners. ::)
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Funny - yet obama would not allow te pics of OBL.
Dead Osama - no
Dead US Soldiers -Yes.
Nice.
Not surprising. Muslim feelings supersede those of Americans.
God forbid Muslims do something "uncommonly" rash and kill somebody over those pictures! ::)
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Now Obama is delivering the news that there is a real cost to this bullshit that Bush started and failed at.
Sure he is.
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I think Obama did come to his senses. Which is to systematically dismantle the bush foundation of secrecy, deception, and ignorance.
If you don't like his decision, write your Senator.
Total fail.