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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: mademan80 on February 19, 2009, 03:05:58 PM
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do you guys prefer overhand or underhand when doing this excercise? and by doing it different do you notice a difference? some people have one hand over and the other under...i like under...occasionally i do over and dont really notice a difference...anyone have a good video on this movement b/c alot of people have their own way of doing it depending on what works for them i guess
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I like switching it up. I'll do overhand with a slightly wide grip to get more of the mid and lower traps and rear delts/upper back for 6-8 weeks then switch it to underhand close (slightly closer than shoulder width) to get more of the lats. Some people don't like them, but they're a staple in my back routine.
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do you guys prefer overhand or underhand when doing this excercise? and by doing it different do you notice a difference? some people have one hand over and the other under...i like under...occasionally i do over and dont really notice a difference...anyone have a good video on this movement b/c alot of people have their own way of doing it depending on what works for them i guess
Overhand for me. I feel I can get a better ROM, and lift heavier with better form.
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thanx for the input guys...yall ever do one hand under and the other over?
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thanx for the input guys...yall ever do one hand under and the other over?
Two different motions. Use over OR under, not switch grip.
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whats the reason for no switch grip? just wondering
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whats the reason for no switch grip? just wondering
I'm guessing the distribution of effort in your back won't be balanced, ie. the side doing the underhand probably gets less involvement as the bicep will take a lot of the strain on that side.
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Overhand grip rows for me
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you guys think one works better for thickness as opposed the other?
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you guys think one works better for thickness as opposed the other?
there's really no difference honestly, whatever version that allows you to use the most weight on with decent form is the one that will build the most thickness.
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I do 4 sets. Two underhand and two overhand. I feel the overhand a lot more in the middle and upperback area and the underhand grip more in the lats.
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I like them both. But in underhand i can contract and feel the lats more than the overhand.
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Might try curl grip, medium to close, bring the bar into the lower ab area. Seems to affect the lat's better for a lot of men. Also will hit the biceps more so that the overhand rowing grip.
If doing regular overhand BB rows, try 2 sets of a extra wide grip to the upper chest. 2 medium grip sets to the upper abs and the last 2 sets with a closer grip, bring the bar into the lower abs. Tends to hit the whole of the back more. Including the traps and inter section of the back.If anyone has done a over/under grip for a set of BB rows, you may have discovered how difficult it can be. But if it works for you, than great.
Those 45 degree BB rows (half bent over/half upright row) seem to build quite a few huge and thick backs (including traps and rear delts) among some very large lifters. Either a closer over or under grip is used. Good Luck.
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it depends on what movement i start my back with,,,,,, if its curl grip pulldowns i'll do over hand bb rows, if its conventional pulldowns or chins i'll go with the curl grip,,, be warey of goin very heavy on the curl grip, i never go over 50kg a side ...them bicep tendons are vunerable...
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thanx fellas...ima give that 6 set routine a try JPM...sounds like a killa to me...seems like it would hit the entire back
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overhand i do more frequently the onder hand version is good too hits the lower lats
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My back workouts always start the same way - pre-exhaust with 3 sets of wide-grip chins followed by three sets of barbell rows with an overhand grip. I then move on to machine pullovers which is an underhand grip. Get the best of both worlds I say.
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Overhand BB rows and underhand pulldowns. I did underhand rows when I first started out, and when I start using bentover rows again I might go back to an underhand grip.
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I don't think either grip hits the lats nearly as good as neutral/palms facing together or slight variations of that. Which is part of why exercises like T-bar and DB rows are better IMO, because they allow that grip. Those exerises are also easier on the lower back and are less exhausting because the back's not holding up the entire weight.
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i agree that t-bar rows take pretty much all the strain off of your lower back but i feel like i would be cheating myself if i didnt do some good old fashioned rows
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i agree that t-bar rows take pretty much all the strain off of your lower back but i feel like i would be cheating myself if i didnt do some good old fashioned rows
As long as they work that's the main thing. My experience is that they're not as effective as other things, and i no longer waste time with them just because they're supposed to be good. DB rows are very similar but more effective and easier on the back as well as less exhausting.
This is the best version of BB row.
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i saw in one video where charles glass was training chris cormier ,who was doing bentover rows on a smith machine lying on a bench kept on 4-5inches of block ,i beleive better contraction and more strict movement.But some amount of cheating such as driving the weight with legs , is it helpful in gaining strength, i normally attempt more weight in my last set where i use my legs for momemtum??
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But some amount of cheating such as driving the weight with legs , is it helpful in gaining strength, i normally attempt more weight in my last set where i use my legs for momemtum??
Ya, i have no doubt that especially at the end of the set you should use some cheating, because it's very hard to improve and requires you to do whatever it takes to increase reps and weight. When fatigue takes over and no further strict reps are possible you have to keep going in order to stress the muscle further, by cheating, rest-pause reps, partials, etc..
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As long as they work that's the main thing. My experience is that they're not as effective as other things, and i no longer waste time with them just because they're supposed to be good. DB rows are very similar but more effective and easier on the back as well as less exhausting.
This is the best version of BB row.
ive got to dissagree...... ive played around with similar types of movements as this and it feels very unatural, i tend to think part of what makes the bent row such a good movement is the fact that your supporting the weight in a bent position, your working the entire back region... i definatly think the yates version , rowning to the waist is for me personaly the best way to go..
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part of what makes the bent row such a good movement is the fact that your supporting the weight in a bent position, your working the entire back region... i definatly think the yates version , rowning to the waist is for me personaly the best way to go..
Actually you're supporting my point with the Yates example-his version was NOT textbook form, he was almost standing up. Thereby removing significant pressure off the back that standard BB rows imbue because of the straight up-and-down pressure. He was doing what i'm talking about, finding a modification that worked for him and by doing so taking some pressure off the lower back. The angle that this is varies by individual-some find bending over more than usual will do the same thing.
Also, something like T-bar also puts alot of weight on the back and works all of the back, but thanks to the angle it also isn't as harsh on the lower back as standard BB rows-like the Yates rows the angle is different, not straight up-and-down pressure like standard BB rows.
Me i'd rather work both upper and lower back more effectively by splitting them up, just as many BBs now separate cardio and weights rather than trying to get both effects just from lifting.
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in my opion Barbell rows are very difficult for + 90% of us.....
The one´s which will do them very correct using in 98 % "pussy weights" (and they will look the same), or at the other side i see
guys in the gym which use so heavy weights so they make something between barbell shrugs an partiell deadlift + excessive momentum.
and in a while you will see someone who can do BR in good form with plenty weights + having a great back....but believe me, that will not happen very often.....
for all rowing movements my advice is to use the exercises where you "in controll" with "(relative) heavy weigths".
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in my opion Barbell rows are very difficult for + 90% of us.....
The one´s which will do them very correct using in 98 % "pussy weights" (and they will look the same), or at the other side i see
guys in the gym which use so heavy weights so they make something between barbell shrugs an partiell deadlift + excessive momentum.
and in a while you will see someone who can do BR in good form with plenty weights + having a great back....but believe me, that will not happen very often.....
for all rowing movements my advice is to use the exercises where you "in controll" with "(relative) heavy weigths".
the heaviest ive done in my offseason was 315 for 4 sloppy reps but full range.
now im prepping for my show and stick to 2 to 2,5 plates a side. for 8-10
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Very heavy BB rows are also a great way to get a hernia.
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Very heavy BB rows are also a great way to get a hernia.
can you explain?? would make anyone paranoid ;D
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Never heard of BB rows being a great way to get a hernia. Unless one was born with a potential hernia or suffered a former injury to the groin/ab area. Rows (and other back exercises) should help strengthen that area quite well. Saying your going to get a hernia is like saying lifting weights will make you muscle bound. Those myth's went out in the '60's. Doing heavy back exercise usually go hand in hand in building the most muscle mass. And in a shorter period of time.
That photo of the exercises (put up about every 2 to 3 weeks without fail), where the guy is lying face done on the bench while doing rows, may have it's merits when much lighter weight is used. But the more weight used the more pressure on the chest/rib boxt , and in a way, slowing or stopping the blood flow in the pec area. Maybe not a great idea.
Also going to have pressure on the small of the back, certainly not any easier on the lower back area. There is a strong contraction of those lower back muscles doing that or any other type of that rowing movement. Anyone doubts any of this than try a few moderate sets yourself.
May need a cam type bar, as shown in the photo, for a better ROM if that's what you want. Those bars are also used when benching, for a deeper stretch on the pec's/chest. Might just as well use a pair of DB for that lying bench row. Even can do them one arm at a time.
If a fear of regular BB rows (which can be an exceptional mass builder for most me, akin to the regular DL in my view) lingers in the mind, than do one arm DB rows, as suggested before, with the free hand braced against a bench or whatever. Might want to also change the style a bit and pull up the DB inline with the shoulders while the elbows are out to their widest. Can hit the rear delts, traps and inter back quite well. Actually may want to use both versions in a back workout.Seen a couple of guy's do these DB rows with a curl grip, but looked like it was more bicep work than actual back. Good Luck.
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Never heard of BB rows being a great way to get a hernia. Unless one was born with a potential hernia or suffered a former injury to the groin/ab area. Rows (and other back exercises) should help strengthen that area quite well. Saying your going to get a hernia is like saying lifting weights will make you muscle bound. Those myth's went out in the '60's. Doing heavy back exercise usually go hand in hand in building the most muscle mass. And in a shorter period of time.
One of the values of this forum is to educate others and to correct some of the falsehoods that some including perma-angry jpm generate. Strengthening the back doesn't necessarily help much with hernias, that typically occur in organs and surrounding tissues of the abdomen. Bending over while rowing puts tremendous pressure on that area. The kinds that can create hernias. I know this from direct experience.
That photo of the exercises (put up about every 2 to 3 weeks without fail), where the guy is lying face done on the bench while doing rows, may have it's merits when much lighter weight is used. But the more weight used the more pressure on the chest/rib boxt , and in a way, slowing or stopping the blood flow in the pec area. Maybe not a great idea.
LOL that's because it's a great exercise that most don't know about. You're the textbook example-it's crystal clear that mr. resentment here has never tried it. The nutty theory about hurting the chest due to pressure unless going light is utter poppycock, absurd. Trial and error always trumps this made-up crap. That's like saying that a preacher bench will hurt the arms when going heavy. Yates used the same back brace arrangement extensively and never mentioned any negatives, only positives.
Carry on with more of this speculative crap jpm, you're a gem. The net's full of this type of training "wisdom". ;)
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lots of good input on this one...those rows in the picture: why not just do t-bar rows?
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...those rows in the picture: why not just do t-bar rows?
Obviously they're not the same exercise. Plus someone might not have access to both.
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For the sake of training knowledge, would some one like to add these lying bench row's to their back workout and tell us the results? Giving it a fair 3 to 4 week try. Just talking about it's merits only goes so far. We all would need a pro and con report.
If working into heavier sets, I myself, find it a very uncomfortable and restrictive movement when lying prone on a bench.A heavy pad helps a bit, but not all that much. Have also tried them on a incline bench, with seems to give a better feel to the exercise. I get more serious lat/back action going with BB or DB rows, but maybe that's just me. "T" bar rows are another excellent lat/back exercise, much preferred over that pictured lying version. For me, and others I have trained with.
As far as the hernia thing goes, building the lower back muscles and the all important ab wall (including the obliques) can go a long way to insure less stress for a potential injury. If hernia's are anyone's main concern than never do DL's, cleans, squats, leg presses, ab work, etc.....including most standing exercises. BB can build a very strong lower back, with the two important links of the glutes and ham's. Good Luck.
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at the gym today i gave those "pictured" rows a try and it felt like i was doing lieing t-bar rows...but i think someone needs to do what jpm said
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lots of good input on this one...those rows in the picture: why not just do t-bar rows?
T-bar rows are more for the rhomboids and mid back - barbell rows are more for the lats.
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T-bar rows are more for the rhomboids and mid back - barbell rows are more for the lats.
IMO they can be different or similar, depending on the grip. Some Ts have lots of choices, even including a bar grip simiilar to BB for BB type rows as well as medium and narrow grips. Watching Coleman's videos i get the impression this is his preferred method of rowing. Same with Schwarzenegger.
What i like about Ts aside from the fact they're easier on the back and less exhausting because of the angle, is that they allow for alot more grip options that affect different parts of the back. A BB row doesn't allow nearly as much latitude.
i gave those "pictured" rows a try and it felt like i was doing lieing t-bar
Well of course, you're confirming what i said about BB rows and Ts being similar, and in both cases you're prone, so it's kind of stating the obvious that they'll be similar. The nice thing about using a bench and BB is that it's a lot more common in terms of equipment availability.
Rather than stating the obvious why not contribute something about how it hit you..they're both kick-ass to me, 2 of the very best for back in terms of rowing.
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yeah it actually felt more natural and i felt it more in my lats than the t-bar...im a simpleton bro somtimes stating the obvious is just a habit of mine...i wasnt knocking the movement i actually liked it
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THis is my favorite exercise. There IS a difference between underhand and overhand, and they should both be done.
Overhand will pull the bar closer to the chest, and the elbows flare out more, hitting the upper back more.
With underhand, the elbows are more tucked, and will naturally go back more, bringing the bar up closer to the stomach and hitting the mid-back.
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Might try curl grip, medium to close, bring the bar into the lower ab area. Seems to affect the lat's better for a lot of men. Also will hit the biceps more so that the overhand rowing grip.
If doing regular overhand BB rows, try 2 sets of a extra wide grip to the upper chest. 2 medium grip sets to the upper abs and the last 2 sets with a closer grip, bring the bar into the lower abs. Tends to hit the whole of the back more. Including the traps and inter section of the back.If anyone has done a over/under grip for a set of BB rows, you may have discovered how difficult it can be. But if it works for you, than great.
Those 45 degree BB rows (half bent over/half upright row) seem to build quite a few huge and thick backs (including traps and rear delts) among some very large lifters. Either a closer over or under grip is used. Good Luck.
yeah bro i tried this one the other day and it was pretty good...wheres the shit out of ya but i felt it
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it is hard to say..... maybe both hand postions work
Yates did rows with an underhand grip and Samir used overhand grip
both men had tremendous backs