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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: SAMSON123 on March 15, 2009, 10:11:43 AM
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Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey
Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:
1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.
The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.
Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.
In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).
2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
One of the causes of the American Revolution was the use of warrantless searches known as “writs of assistance” and the first fiery embers of American resistance were born in opposition to those infamous writs. The Founders considered all warrantless searches to be unreasonable and egregious. It was to prevent a repeat of such violations of the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects that the Fourth Amendment was written.
We expect that warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.
3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.
One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.
The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.
One of the causes of the American Revolution was the attempt “to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power” by disbanding the Massachusetts legislature and appointing General Gage as “military governor.” The attempt to disarm the people of Massachusetts during that martial law sparked our Revolution. Accordingly, the power to impose martial law – the absolute rule over the people by a military officer with his will alone being law – is nowhere enumerated in our Constitution.
Further, it is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.
The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.
In response to the obscene growth of federal power and to the absurdly totalitarian claimed powers of the Executive, upwards of 20 states are considering, have considered, or have passed courageous resolutions affirming states rights and sovereignty.
Those resolutions follow in the honored and revered footsteps of Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, and likewise seek to enforce the Constitution by affirming the very same principles of our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights that we Oath Keepers recognize and affirm.
Chief among those principles is that ours is a dual sovereignty system, with the people of each state retaining all powers not granted to the national government they created, and thus the people of each state reserved to themselves the right to judge when the national government they created has voided the compact between the states by asserting powers never granted.
Upon the declaration by a state that such a breach has occurred, we will not obey orders to force that state to submit to the national government.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
One of the causes of the American Revolution was the blockade of Boston, and the occupying of that city by the British military, under martial law. Once hostilities began, the people of Boston were tricked into turning in their arms in exchange for safe passage, but were then forbidden to leave. That confinement of the residents of an entire city was an act of war.
Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
Mass, forced internment into concentration camps was a hallmark of every fascist and communist dictatorship in the 20th Century. Such internment was unfortunately even used against American citizens of Japanese descent during World War II. Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boars, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, to the Cossacks, and to the Chechens, for example.
Such a vile order to forcibly intern Americans without charges or trial would be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason, regardless of the pretext used. We will not commit treason, nor will we facilitate or support it."NOT on Our Watch!"
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.
During the American Revolution, the British government enlisted the aid of Hessian mercenaries in an attempt to subjugate the rebellious American people. Throughout history, repressive regimes have enlisted the aid of foreign troops and mercenaries who have no bonds with the people.
Accordingly, as the militia of the several states are the only military force contemplated by the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, for domestic keeping of the peace, and as the use of even our own standing army for such purposes is without such constitutional support, the use of foreign troops and mercenaries against the people is wildly unconstitutional, egregious, and an act of war.
We will oppose such troops as enemies of the people and we will treat all who request, invite, and aid those foreign troops as the traitors they are.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.
One of the causes of the American Revolution was the seizure and forfeiture of American ships, goods, and supplies, along with the seizure of American timber for the Royal Navy, all in violation of the people’s natural right to their property and to the fruits of their labor. The final spark of the Revolution was the attempt by the government to seize powder and cannon stores at Concord.
Deprivation of food has long been a weapon of war and oppression, with millions intentionally starved to death by fascist and communist governments in the 20th Century alone.
Accordingly, we will not obey or facilitate orders to confiscate food and other essential supplies from the people, and we will consider all those who issue or carry out such orders to be the enemies of the people.
10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
There would have been no American Revolution without fiery speakers and writers such as James Otis, Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine, and Sam Adams “setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”
Patrick Henry: "Give me Liberty, or Give me DEATH!"
Tyrants know that the pen of a man such as Thomas Paine can cause them more damage than entire armies, and thus they always seek to suppress the natural rights of speech, association, and assembly. Without freedom of speech, the people will have no recourse but to arms. Without freedom of speech and conscience, there is no freedom.
Therefore, we will not obey or support any orders to suppress or violate the right of the people to speak, associate, worship, assemble, communicate, or petition government for the redress of grievances.
— And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually affirm our oath and pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. Oath Keepers
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*yawn*
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GW Bush and his overlord Cheney would have required you to do a few of those things
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*yawn*
You would prefer a society that embraces MARTIAL LAW, POLICE STATE or TOTALITARIANISM??? rather than one where the military refuses to bring such things to fruition? These Oath Keepers and these "will not obey orders" have been around since George Washington's time.
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Oddly this was never mentioned under Bush. I guess they don't trust a liberal douchebag.
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You would prefer a society that embraces MARTIAL LAW, POLICE STATE or TOTALITARIANISM??? rather than one where the military refuses to bring such things to fruition? These Oath Keepers and these "will not obey orders" have been around since George Washington's time.
Yes, but the problem is that the military's job is to obey orders. Thus if the order is "round up all enemies of the US," even if they are US citizens, these people will do it. I've asked HH6 on a few occasions if he'd drop his weapon and walk or obey the order to round up American citizens and he has insinuated that he would obey the order.
You're dealing with a very ignorant crowd.
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*yawn*
Well said. :D
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A walk down memory lane, for sure... :-\
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Yes, but the problem is that the military's job is to obey orders. Thus if the order is "round up all enemies of the US," even if they are US citizens, these people will do it. I've asked HH6 on a few occasions if he'd drop his weapon and walk or obey the order to round up American citizens and he has insinuated that he would obey the order.
You're dealing with a very ignorant crowd.
:(
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*yawn*
I liked that. I suppose you saw it as overtly liberal or some shit?
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Oddly this was never mentioned under Bush. I guess they don't trust a liberal douchebag.
yes it was. constantly.
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Well said. :D
You guys don't like what it says? Serious?
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You guys don't like what it says? Serious?
Theyre not patriots. Theyre "yes" men..... :'(
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Theyre not patriots. Theyre "yes" men..... :'(
I think it's so fucking bizarre to "*yawn*" at our Rights and Freedom? WTF :-X
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You guys don't like what it says? Serious?
Not all of it, including these:
2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
There are recognized exceptions to the search warrant requirement, so what this is calling for is anarchy.
3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.
"Unlawful enemy combatants" are, by definition, non-American citizens under the Military Commissions Act. I pretty much quit reading after that one.
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I think it's so fucking bizarre to "*yawn*" at our Rights and Freedom? WTF :-X
As you can see by what BBum has written, they believe their rights should not be absolute. In fact when i read what he stated i pictured the revolutionary time when the queens gaurd was telling you why he had a right to bust in your american door and burn your home.
You either have a right or you dont. There must be a process to go around this.....ie: warrants and such.
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Not all of it, including these:
2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
There are recognized exceptions to the search warrant requirement, so what this is calling for is anarchy.
3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.
"Unlawful enemy combatants" are, by definition, non-American citizens under the Military Commissions Act. I pretty much quit reading after that one.
On point number one, it says warrantless searches. recognized exceptions where they had to act before a warrant were still done before with the requirement that a warrant be obtained within a window of time.
On point 2, it has been a source of confusion so it doesn't freak me out that it's clarified in whoever wrote the above.
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/442
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/cassel/20080114.html
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Yes, but the problem is that the military's job is to obey orders. Thus if the order is "round up all enemies of the US," even if they are US citizens, these people will do it. I've asked HH6 on a few occasions if he'd drop his weapon and walk or obey the order to round up American citizens and he has insinuated that he would obey the order.
You're dealing with a very ignorant crowd.
I keep hoping by prodding them enough with information they will wise up and change....I have my work cut out for me
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As you can see by what BBum has written, they believe their rights should not be absolute. In fact when i read what he stated i pictured the revolutionary time when the queens gaurd was telling you why he had a right to bust in your american door and burn your home.
You either have a right or you dont. There must be a process to go around this.....ie: warrants and such.
No, it doesn't work that way. We have rights and almost none of them are absolute, including the right to life. There are pretty much always exceptions. You should read the 14th Amendment.
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On point number one, it says warrantless searches. recognized exceptions where they had to act before a warrant were still done before with the requirement that a warrant be obtained within a window of time.
On point 2, it has been a source of confusion so it doesn't freak me out that it's clarified in whoever wrote the above.
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/442
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/cassel/20080114.html
I doubt the police can get a warrant for a search that has already taken place. An exception is just that: no warrant required. I'm sure the exceptions are pretty narrow.
I read the definition of enemy combatant and it is crystal clear to me. The Military Commissions Act does not apply to American citizens. This article, or whatever it is, is just someone making unnecessary overstatements. It isn't really grounded in reality. (At least the parts I read.)
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No, it doesn't work that way. We have rights and almost none of them are absolute, including the right to life. There are pretty much always exceptions. You should read the 14th Amendment.
Please re-read first post of thread. Again you sound like the queens gaurd.
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Please re-read first post of thread. Again you sound like the queens gaurd.
Again, you should read the 14th Amendment. You sound like someone who doesn't understand the Constitution.
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Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).
In fact, under Article 90, during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death.
Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm
BB, Is an order which clearly violates the constitution a lawful order?
No. Servicemembers have no obligation to obey an unlawful order.
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Is an unconstitutional order an unlawful order?
Sure.
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illiegal, unethical or immoral and I'm pretty sure I've never insinuated that I'd round up civilians if I thought the order was illiegal.
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I guess u would really have to frame it, why etc.....I will say no first but honestly what else has been happening. I think based on the fact that its in the Constitution, the circumstances would be beyond our imagining. Rounding up people, not as far fetched. We've done it before...average Americans more then likely no...but thats easier to imagine then taking guns.
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I hope thats as clear as mud.
I read alot of speculative fiction to pass the time on these trips so I can see some circumstances where rounding up people could happen. Disease, a terror attack....who knows. U understand that the US military is very very very pro gun as part of its make-up and there would be very few people who would do that. But again u would have to paint a senario.
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Yes I could see marshall law and u would have to agree in that particular senario it might even be called for. The rank and file of the police and military would do what they had to....even at a fast pace something like this would not look sinister unless somehow a smoking gun was found. I think u might not see it....u would see Bird flu but not the actors behind it....u'd see the event without the CT. 911 is different because the event happened, it was isolated and we responded. The same with Katrina...isolated act of God...response....etc etc. There wasn't looting in Detroit that corresponded with New Orleans. But with what ur talking about, we'd be overwhelmed. I think u'd see the balkanization of the country and the rest of the world would fall apart as a result of our abrogated responsibilities. Those who felt froggy would move...and the weaker countries would suffer. We saw this with the end of the Soviet Union and are still feeling it. Would we have had Desert Storm..would Iraq invaded Kuwait? That set the ball rolling for Bosnia and on and on.....
In the same vain I'm reading John Birmingham's " Without warning"....sci-fi/alt fiction that deals with the destruction of most of the US. It takes place in March of 2003 right as we are about to invade Kuwait. An event takes place that destroys much of the US. We're left with Alaska, some of Washington State, Hawaii and Gitmo...most of Cuba is gone. The event is a sort of heat curtain. We also have our entire military...which was getting ready to invade Iraq. Early on we decide thats not going to work but as we're moving out Iran attacks us. Some of the points he makes through various characters is that while many would celebrate the basic disappearence of the US, the rest of the world would soon find out that this is a bad idea. The heat curtain has caused almost a nuclear winter with all the burning particles in the air headed toward Europe. Thats where I"m at.
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Sorry about the long post...I love this book. Also I appear to still be alive in this timeline.
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Yep just like the late 70's and early 80's. I love post apocalpse novels and films. U had Jericho which was excellant and now NBC will have Year zero....
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Its like another universe or something....I hope this kind of stuff lasts, its better then the reality shit. I loved Jericho..which managed 2 seasons.
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Turned into an interesting thread. 8)
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Me and Hugo are civil when none of u can see... ;D
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I don't know, here is my theory. I think they might have gone a different and bigger direction if they knew they had 3 years to build the mythology. The way they ended sorta sucked because they took the easy way. If I had 3 years I would not have tied it to domestic terrorism because thats too easy...u could have had foreign govs working with domestics..u had the Chinese angle...all of that was in season 1 and then they did the shortened season 2 and found a quick way to sorta wrap it up.
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I keep hoping by prodding them enough with information they will wise up and change....I have my work cut out for me
Well... you can always give it a try, but their job is to obey their superiors, not to follow the Constitution. There have been instances in which US soldiers violated their oath and went on killing rampages, not because they wanted to mind you!, but because they were given orders to massacre innocent civilians (Viet Nam, Iraq, Korea, etc).
As far as rounding up of American citizens goes... it happens here in the USA all the time, it's called jails, and it's carried out by the people who "serve" the public, aka the police.
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Ok and thats the exception dude...No Gun Rhee...bullshit...Iraq ...when exactly did we do that. Civilians have been killed sure, but we have'nt gone on muderous rampages. Calley and his guys killed people, they weren't under orders. No Gun Rhee, they had good cause and guess what, the damm South Koreans did most of the shooting. I follow the Constitution.....Oh and I guess people shouldn't go to jail right. ::)
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Ok and thats the exception dude...No Gun Rhee...bullshit...Iraq ...when exactly did we do that. Civilians have been killed sure, but we have'nt gone on muderous rampages. Calley and his guys killed people, they weren't under orders. No Gun Rhee, they had good cause and guess what, the damm South Koreans did most of the shooting. I follow the Constitution.....Oh and I guess people shouldn't go to jail right. ::)
I have no fucking idea what you are trying to say. Say it clearly.
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I guess if u really understand the events u mentioned in ur original post..u could figure out what I posted. But in an effort to be clear. No Gun Ri or No Gun Rhee was mostly bullshit and the idiot that first brought the story to the always reliable AP...wasn't even fucking there. William Calley and his platoon commited an atrocity, that was stopped by other US troops...end of story. As for Iraq...what are u pointing to..Haditha, where the witness ginned up a story months after it was investigated by the Marines, and finally got Time to buy off on it as factual. They were all found not guilty. Do u know that most of the poster boys for the current and small anti-war movement have been found to be full of shit. Guys who never served in combat, guys who got bounced from the military before completing bootcamp, guys who lied about what they saw...the list is endless. And the best part about all these losers is that u can request their records under FOIA and bamm...its all black and white. The milbloggers are absolutley commited to making sure what happened after Vietnam will never happen now. We won't loose our honor to the liberal douchbags like in the 1970's.
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I have no fucking idea what you are trying to say. Say it clearly.
This is the normal reaction people have when trying to read post by headhunter6. He is a BURN OUT SHELL SHOT vet going in circles and taking pills to make sure he does not dream or live in the real world. Don't expect to ever get rational intelligent repsonses
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This is the normal reaction people have when trying to read post by headhunter6. He is a BURN OUT SHELL SHOT vet going in circles and taking pills to make sure he does not dream or live in the real world. Don't expect to ever get rational intelligent repsonses
HH please speak in ebonics so Samsom and Slapper can understand.
Thank you.
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This is the normal reaction people have when trying to read post by headhunter6. He is a BURN OUT SHELL SHOT vet going in circles and taking pills to make sure he does not dream or live in the real world. Don't expect to ever get rational intelligent repsonses
Yeah, I get that all the time. I mean, he's explained his point and I STILL can't figure out what he's trying to say. He's got the the ability, speech-wise, of a Tarzan. Even Cheeta would've gone like "Gumbah, what the hell are you trying to tell me?"...
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Yeah...ok dipshit. Samson doesn't understand because he's a 3rd world retard. I have no idea what ur excuse is. Oh and Samson...I don't pop pills nor am I "BURN OUT SHELL SHOT" , which I take to mean "shell shocked". I would have to guess that u managed to drag that one up from "Patton" or some old Vietnam movie. U guys love to make claims about crap u've neither experienced or in this case researched and when confronted with facts u jerk each other off about my post not making sense. How about the facts. U mentioned Iraq,Vietnam and Korea...I detailed how u happen to be full of shit as usual. SAMSON tried this crap with the Falklands and was smoked, with no response.
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I guess if u really understand the events u mentioned in ur original post..u could figure out what I posted. But in an effort to be clear. No Gun Ri or No Gun Rhee was mostly bullshit and the idiot that first brought the story to the always reliable AP...wasn't even fucking there.
Ok... So it doesn't matter that president Clinton issued a Statement of Regret (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/clinton_1-11.html) on the issue and that the joint investigation (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/statement_1-11.html) between the South Koreans and the Americans came to the conclusion that the American soldiers had caused a massacre. Even though the investigation came to the conclusion that yes, Americans used civilians as human shields, called, repeatedly, for air strikes against civilians and eventually fired at civilians it does not matter to you. What matters is that the jerkoff that broke the story to AP lied and therefore the story must be a lie.
The question here is: Did American soldiers fire at innocent civilians at No Gin Ri? The answer is YES. 248 people gunned down... maybe not in cold blood, maybe without orders from above, but killed nonetheless. What really strikes me as "odd" is how come none of these "American" soldiers never brought the story forth...
William Calley and his platoon committed an atrocity, that was stopped by other US troops...end of story.
End of story?? I'm speechless.
Calley's actions were in no way an isolated incident. YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THAT. Take the CIA and Operation Phoenix for example. OP was a program developed in 1953 to torture and murder civilians in Vietnam. It ain't no secret. According to an army report discused in detail in this website (http://www.vnafmamn.com/VNWar_atrocities.html), American soldiers committed 820 atrocities in just a 2 day period.
As for Iraq...what are u pointing to..Haditha, where the witness ginned up a story months after it was investigated by the Marines, and finally got Time to buy off on it as factual. They were all found not guilty. Do u know that most of the poster boys for the current and small anti-war movement have been found to be full of shit. Guys who never served in combat, guys who got bounced from the military before completing bootcamp, guys who lied about what they saw...the list is endless. And the best part about all these losers is that u can request their records under FOIA and bamm...its all black and white. The milbloggers are absolutley committed to making sure what happened after Vietnam will never happen now. We won't loose our honor to the liberal douchbags like in the 1970's
As far as Iraq goes...
MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14166052/).
USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-07-09-rape-investigation_x.htm).
More (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-07-iraqi-case_x.htm).
People killed in Fallujah by "frying" the person with white phosphorus (http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m10211&l=i&size=1&hd=0) (warning, strong images).
I could just post many more links to atrocities committed by other bodies of the US government, like the 1,000,000+ killed by the US government-imposed sanctions. Deaths Albright knew about very well and described as "terrible casualty"... all in your and my name! Can you fucking believe that?!
I mean, I don't want to sound like I am blaming the soldiers for this. Soldiers are being put in harm's way all the time now and some react in the most horrific ways imaginable. I do REFUSE to believe there is NO order from above though. For example, I seriously believe the following chick forced all those Iraqis to pose naked for the camera. I'll bet my left nut there were orders from above to carry out such an operation. Yet, the stupid idiot got set up and was served in a silver platter for all to see as the face of the crime, when we all know there was HIGHER UP involvement here:
(http://www.mazine.ws/files/AbuGhraib.jpg)
And it's the same in every massacre, every rape, every shot in the head. Whoever is putting you in spot x is doing so because he/she knows it is going to piss off people y and it is going to evolve into ugly situation z. How you react to situation z is what defines whether you are a soldier defending your own life or a stone-cold killer in a uniform. DO NOT for a second forget who the fuck put you in that spot though.
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Yeah...ok dipshit. Samson doesn't understand because he's a 3rd world retard. I have no idea what ur excuse is. Oh and Samson...I don't pop pills nor am I "BURN OUT SHELL SHOT" , which I take to mean "shell shocked". I would have to guess that u managed to drag that one up from "Patton" or some old Vietnam movie. U guys love to make claims about crap u've neither experienced or in this case researched and when confronted with facts u jerk each other off about my post not making sense. How about the facts. U mentioned Iraq,Vietnam and Korea...I detailed how u happen to be full of shit as usual. SAMSON tried this crap with the Falklands and was smoked, with no response.
When I am right there is no need to continue the discussion. i guess with your SHELL SHOCKED state you find it hard to discern when a person has made a credible point and no longer wishes to foolishly argue..... By the way HH6 didi you ever see a movie called Jacob's Ladder about individuals like yourself who come back from combat mentally deranged....?
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U realize that jacobs ladder was a horror movie right, and not real. Slapper....they have no idea how many people might have died at No Gun ri...and when u have nKorean saboteurs mixed with civilians..what exactly are u supposed to do..its war not XBox or liberal fuzzy bunny land. My dad was a B-52 pilot with 2 1/2 years in Vietnam and bombed the dogshit out of the north...it was a war. I'm not a lib and my hearts deosn't bleed...Abu garib was bad because it got out and caused more violence and hurt more US soldiers. Nobody died in Abu garib or was even seriously injured. Their pride was hurt...big friggen deal. Saddam used to power tool people in that prison and the Iraqi gov does much worse things there now, as they regained control of the place.
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U realize that jacobs ladder was a horror movie right, and not real. Slapper....they have no idea how many people might have died at No Gun ri...and when u have nKorean saboteurs mixed with civilians..what exactly are u supposed to do..its war not XBox or liberal fuzzy bunny land. My dad was a B-52 pilot with 2 1/2 years in Vietnam and bombed the dogshit out of the north...it was a war. I'm not a lib and my hearts deosn't bleed...Abu garib was bad because it got out and caused more violence and hurt more US soldiers. Nobody died in Abu garib or was even seriously injured. Their pride was hurt...big friggen deal. Saddam used to power tool people in that prison and the Iraqi gov does much worse things there now, as they regained control of the place.
You clearly need to get to the Vet Admin hospital ASAP...Jacob's Ladder was based on facts..If you watched the movie you would have known that, being that it is said at the end of the movie. I guess you have been exposed to BZ as well...Poor guy..Shell Shot, Agent Orange, PTSD, Deranged, Druggie...I am starting to feel sorry for you now...
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Which part..the monsters or when he woke up and found out he died in Vietnam.....christ ur an idiot. We don't use agent orange anymore...turns out there aren't alot of trees in the desert ...still not sure what shell shot is....and dude u could be on fire and I still wouldn't feel sorry for ya so don't waste ur time.
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Which part..the monsters or when he woke up and found out he died in Vietnam.....christ ur an idiot. We don't use agent orange anymore...turns out there aren't alot of trees in the desert ...still not sure what shell shot is....and dude u could be on fire and I still wouldn't feel sorry for ya so don't waste ur time.
Which part???...what are you talking about? All parts of the movie was based on fact...IT WAS NOT A HORROR MOVIE.
america does not use agent orange in IRAQ to defoliate as there is no vegetation, but america does use agent orange (as a nerve agent), white phosphorus, depleted uranium, numerous chemical and biological agents with some of the main biological contaminants being cholera and typhus to infect/harm populations and kill the Iraqi and I am sure the Afghan.
Your efforts to argue are wasted HH6. You severely lack knowledge of the american military, you babble senselessly, you come across as I have said earlier as SHELL SHOT/SHOCKED, definitely in need of a vet hospital to treat your issues and a psychiatrist to de-program you....
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U realize that jacobs ladder was a horror movie right, and not real. Slapper....they have no idea how many people might have died at No Gun ri...and when u have nKorean saboteurs mixed with civilians..what exactly are u supposed to do..its war not XBox or liberal fuzzy bunny land. My dad was a B-52 pilot with 2 1/2 years in Vietnam and bombed the dogshit out of the north...it was a war. I'm not a lib and my hearts deosn't bleed...Abu garib was bad because it got out and caused more violence and hurt more US soldiers. Nobody died in Abu garib or was even seriously injured.[...]
WHAT?!
OH-MY-FUCKING-GOD!!
(http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050217/050217_prisondeath2_vmed.widec.jpg)
At least do yourself a favor and do a google search for "Abu Ghraib & torture" or "deaths in Abu Ghraib". Because I DO SEARCH FOR INFORMATION!
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Which part???...what are you talking about? All parts of the movie was based on fact...IT WAS NOT A HORROR MOVIE.
america does not use agent orange in IRAQ to defoliate as there is no vegetation, but america does use agent orange (as a nerve agent), white phosphorus, depleted uranium, numerous chemical and biological agents with some of the main biological contaminants being cholera and typhus to infect/harm populations and kill the Iraqi and I am sure the Afghan.
Your efforts to argue are wasted HH6. You severely lack knowledge of the american military, you babble senselessly, you come across as I have said earlier as SHELL SHOT/SHOCKED, definitely in need of a vet hospital to treat your issues and a psychiatrist to de-program you....
Hey didpshit u realize I'm active duty and have been for over 16 years right.......ur an epic moron. Agent Orange isn't even in the inventory anymore and is not now nor has it ever been a nerve agent. Do u even know what a nerve agent is. If something takes 20 years to kill u, is it really that affective. Again ur an idiot. White phosphorus...do u have any idea what we use that for....its not a chemical weapon and neither is DU. I'm a fucking tanker and know infinitly more about DU rounds then u do. We have never used bio agents against anybody..so I'd ask u top provide proof. Please crawl back into ur hut before I call an arty strike on ur 3rd world ass.
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Hey didpshit u realize I'm active duty and have been for over 16 years right.......ur an epic moron. Agent Orange isn't even in the inventory anymore and is not now nor has it ever been a nerve agent. Do u even know what a nerve agent is. If something takes 20 years to kill u, is it really that affective. Again ur an idiot. White phosphorus...do u have any idea what we use that for....its not a chemical weapon and neither is DU. I'm a fucking tanker and know infinitly more about DU rounds then u do. We have never used bio agents against anybody..so I'd ask u top provide proof. Please crawl back into ur hut before I call an arty strike on ur 3rd world ass.
No wonder america is having such a hard time in Iraq even though the country really doesn't have a military. Everything you posted is either a LIE or you are so braindead to facts it is stupefying. Try doing a little research on the very chemicals and weaponry you claim don't exist any more or are not used. Even the lame american CNN reported on the white phosphorus being used in Iraq and the deadly effects of DU. Yes agent Orange attacks the nervous system (nerve agent) and its effects are immediate, DU is DEADLY and has already caused much in the form of death, disease and mutations in new born children. If you really are in the military, which it seems you are not with your lack of knowledge, it would behoove you to do research yourself. You obviously have access to a computer and the internet...START LOOKING THINGS UP...and quit trying to argue LIES and UNINTELLIGENT FACTS
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Dipshit let me make this very very very very clear to u.....first off I served as a Company Commander with the 3rd ID during OIF 1....that means to idiots like u, that I had an M1 strapped to my ass as I kicked the dogshit out of Saddam. My Sabot rounds have DU...I'll be fine or I won't, they saved lives, American lives as they blew the hell out of Iraqi Armor. We don't use agent orange...we don't spray it from planes and didn't use it in Iraq. Its a friggen defoliant, not a nerve agent. It causes cancer...years from when guys were exposed. If it causes nerve damage, thats not the intent. We have plenty of actual nerve agents that do that, and kill within seconds, not 20 years..again ur a retard. I actually serve in the military, u serve as a retard that gets his news from the net. Show me published info on DU, the last time it was used was in 1991.
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This is what Agent Orange can do. I've also been to the US Army NBC school..100 hour course. I'm not a chem officer but served as the Company NBC officer as a LT. Nowhere in that course or any other NBC...CBRN course is agent orange classified as a nerve agent. If I'm going to drop an agent I want the guy to die immediatly. U have no idea SAMSON...none. Give up.
The following health conditions are presumptively recognized for service connection for Vietnam veterans, based on exposure to herbicides and related materials during the Vietnam War. Vietnam veterans with one or more of these conditions do not have to show that their illness(es) is (are) related to their military service to get disability compensation. VA presumes that their condition is service-connected.
Conditions Recognized in Veterans:
1.
Chloracne (must occur within 1 year of exposure to Agent Orange)
2.
Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma
3.
Soft tissue sarcoma (other than osteosarcoma, chondrosarcoma, Kaposi’s sarcoma, or mesothelioma)
4.
Hodgkin’s disease
5.
Porphyria cutanea tarda (must occur within 1 year of exposure)
6.
Multiple myeloma
7.
Respiratory cancers, including cancers of the lung, larynx, trachea, and bronchus
8.
Prostate cancer
9.
Acute and subacute transient peripheral neuropathy (must appear within 1 year of exposure and resolve within 2 years of date of onset)
10.
Type 2 diabetes
11.
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia
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Dipshit let me make this very very very very clear to u.....first off I served as a Company Commander with the 3rd ID during OIF
I don't care if you served your ass to the guy with the 12 inch dick...what does that have to do with what i said.
1....that means to idiots like u, that I had an M1 strapped to my ass as I kicked the dogshit out of Saddam.
Ummm..Saddam was hanged quite some time ago and no one (especially you) kicked anything out of anyone
My Sabot rounds have DU...I'll be fine or I won't, they saved lives, American lives as they blew the hell out of Iraqi Armor.
Better check your facts honcho...plenty of american soldiers are dying because of DU and are having children with SEVERE deformities. So far as being fine..hahah...when you are pissing blood, if you aren't already, and being told by a doc that you have kidney failure and liver lesions don't say you were not warned.
We don't use agent orange...we don't spray it from planes and didn't use it in Iraq. Its a friggen defoliant, not a nerve agent. It causes cancer...years from when guys were exposed. If it causes nerve damage, thats not the intent.
You just admitted yo don't have a clue what AGENT ORANGE does and neither do you know if it is being used in Iraq and Afghanistan...which it is. Agent oranges effect is immediate....twenty years are not required
We have plenty of actual nerve agents that do that, and kill within seconds, not 20 years So you do admit america is using nerve agents in Iraq..again ur a retard.
I actually serve in the military, u serve as a retard that gets his news from the net. Show me published info on DU, the last time it was used was in 1991. Here ia a page of links of all the proof needed to the dangers of DU. I am sure you will make more fallacious claims that DU is harmless...I look at it this way...If you don't give a damn about your life, then why should I or anyone else... http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm
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This is what Agent Orange can do. I've also been to the US Army NBC school..100 hour course. I'm not a chem officer but served as the Company NBC officer as a LT. Nowhere in that course or any other NBC...CBRN course is agent orange classified as a nerve agent. If I'm going to drop an agent I want the guy to die immediatly. U have no idea SAMSON...none. Give up.
The following health conditions are presumptively recognized for service connection for Vietnam veterans, based on exposure to herbicides and related materials during the Vietnam War. Vietnam veterans with one or more of these conditions do not have to show that their illness(es) is (are) related to their military service to get disability compensation. VA presumes that their condition is service-connected.
Conditions Recognized in Veterans:
1.
Chloracne (must occur within 1 year of exposure to Agent Orange)
2.
Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma
3.
Soft tissue sarcoma (other than osteosarcoma, chondrosarcoma, Kaposi’s sarcoma, or mesothelioma)
4.
Hodgkin’s disease
5.
Porphyria cutanea tarda (must occur within 1 year of exposure)
6.
Multiple myeloma
7.
Respiratory cancers, including cancers of the lung, larynx, trachea, and bronchus
8.
Prostate cancer
9.
Acute and subacute transient peripheral neuropathy (must appear within 1 year of exposure and resolve within 2 years of date of onset)
10.
Type 2 diabetes
11.
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia
And wouldn't you know Sherlock that Iraq's CANCER rate has EXPLODED since the unlawful attack on it by america with it chemical and biological weapons...with this list you displayed being many of the diseases and condition they are now suffering with, which they did NOT have before.
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Well I must have been doing something else during 2003, ur right. They found Saddam ina hole, so ur right, I just kicked the hell out of his guys. I guess anybody who who serves in the military is an affront to ur manhood right. Unless ur prepared to show me facts, studies etc..I'd say u have ZERO FUCKING IDEA. Plenty of guysi served with who were in OIF 1 have had children without issues, so again u don't have a clue. No Agent organge isn't being used, show me where it has been. Its not a nerve agent idiot, its a fucking herbicide. Just because u think something is true, doesn't make it so. I have first hand experience, u have .....the net. And guess what SAMSOM, any site that is link after link of anti-wat bs, yeah they should be believed. ::) Oh and just to make ur head explode even more, I could care less if Iraqi's get cancer. DU is fucking wonderful. A sabot fires a long rod penetrator into the side of a tank, then it liquifies and spews into the turrent, it either incinerates the assholes inside or they can get sucked out the other side, in some cases. That hole is small too, so they look like spagetti. I never saw it myself. Most crews are incinerated.
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Well I must have been doing something else during 2003, ur right. They found Saddam ina hole, so ur right, I just kicked the hell out of his guys. I guess anybody who who serves in the military is an affront to ur manhood right. Unless ur prepared to show me facts, studies etc..I'd say u have ZERO FUCKING IDEA. Plenty of guysi served with who were in OIF 1 have had children without issues, so again u don't have a clue. No Agent organge isn't being used, show me where it has been. Its not a nerve agent idiot, its a fucking herbicide. Just because u think something is true, doesn't make it so. I have first hand experience, u have .....the net. And guess what SAMSOM, any site that is link after link of anti-wat bs, yeah they should be believed. ::) Oh and just to make ur head explode even more, I could care less if Iraqi's get cancer. DU is fucking wonderful. A sabot fires a long rod penetrator into the side of a tank, then it liquifies and spews into the turrent, it either incinerates the assholes inside or they can get sucked out the other side, in some cases. That hole is small too, so they look like spagetti. I never saw it myself. Most crews are incinerated.
Didn't Saddam get outted by a greedy Iraqi so they could be rich?
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His driver got captured and he talked. Saddam had used that hiding spot before and he had been there the whole time we were looking for him. His people stayed pretty loyal, they did however sell out his sons.
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His driver got captured and he talked. Saddam had used that hiding spot before and he had been there the whole time we were looking for him. His people stayed pretty loyal, they did however sell out his sons.
I see... I guess that does make it a little better.
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I have no idea if they paid that guy, or they just kicked his ass until he talked. They were closing in on him anyway.
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I have no idea if they paid that guy, or they just kicked his ass until he talked. They were closing in on him anyway.
Funny... That's what was said pretty much every day until he actually was caught because someone talked.
You'll forgive me if I don't exactly believe that.
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They had a good idea where he was...what city etc. They had alot of close calls with Al Zarquwi, to the point that his drive shot himself as AZ fled, because the Americans had him. They had a predator following his car with SOF following behind. He jumped out and they continued following....something happened with the pred that made it zoom out for a second and he was gone.
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They had a good idea where he was...what city etc. They had alot of close calls with Al Zarquwi, to the point that his drive shot himself as AZ fled, because the Americans had him. They had a predator following his car with SOF following behind. He jumped out and they continued following....something happened with the pred that made it zoom out for a second and he was gone.
Sure thing bro...
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Well I must have been doing something else during 2003, ur right. They found Saddam ina hole, so ur right, I just kicked the hell out of his guys. I guess anybody who who serves in the military is an affront to ur manhood right. Unless ur prepared to show me facts, studies etc..I'd say u have ZERO FUCKING IDEA. Plenty of guysi served with who were in OIF 1 have had children without issues, so again u don't have a clue. No Agent organge isn't being used, show me where it has been. Its not a nerve agent idiot, its a fucking herbicide. Just because u think something is true, doesn't make it so. I have first hand experience, u have .....the net. And guess what SAMSOM, any site that is link after link of anti-wat bs, yeah they should be believed. ::) Oh and just to make ur head explode even more, I could care less if Iraqi's get cancer. DU is fucking wonderful. A sabot fires a long rod penetrator into the side of a tank, then it liquifies and spews into the turrent, it either incinerates the assholes inside or they can get sucked out the other side, in some cases. That hole is small too, so they look like spagetti. I never saw it myself. Most crews are incinerated.
I had a buddy back in college in the 90's that was with the 3rd ID. He had a story of the NCOs putting a bunch of goats into a old AV and shooting it with a DU round. Said all that was left was red mist, and the vehicle was relatively intact. That's brisk, baby!
I wonder what it would do to a mud hut?
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I would be wasting ur tax dollars if I did that...a regular old HE round would be fine.