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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Eyeball Chambers on March 17, 2009, 11:24:17 AM
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
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Ask Paul Hupp LLB.
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
LOL. Harvard Law tough or night school law tough?
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
its sure tuffer then you think. ;D
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...
(http://l)
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I dont really know what to do with my life. I love to argue, and if I could make up my mind and set a goal I would reach it.
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RPF - try a free LSAT sample test. See if you think like a lawyer.
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Good idea, thank you very much!
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i got one and i ain't that bright. :-\
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Now is not the time to go into law. Lawyers are being laid off left and right. There are two types of lawyers.......those that go on to high paying prestigious jobs and all the rest bottom of the barrel fighting over the scrap jobs. And you can guess how competitive the former are. Anything having to do with healthcare and green energy is the way to go in my opinion.
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Now is not the time to go into law. Lawyers are being laid off left and right. There are two types of lawyers.......those that go on to high paying prestigious jobs and all the rest bottom of the barrel fighting over the scrap jobs. And you can guess how competitive the former are. Anything having to do with healthcare and green energy is the way to go in my opinion.
thanks dude, i'm in school to become a lawyer.
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Ok, thanks for the advice.
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Now is not the time to go into law.
Once the degree is ready things will have improved. I hope.
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It's like undergrad but you HAVE to do the work.
20 pages of reading will take 3 hours too. It's a different language.
Then there is the bar exam. i took and passed ny, which is the hardest in the country.
Don't go to law school if you don't know what else to do.. only go if that's what you REALLY wanna do with your life.
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what year of college are you in?
get a useful bachelors, so youll have the option to go into law, or just enter the workforce. get a degree in something you'll use in your area of law.
dont get an english or communications degree. please don't get a communications degree lol...
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what year of college are you in?
get a useful bachelors, so youll have the option to go into law, or just enter the workforce. get a degree in something you'll use in your area of law.
dont get an english or communications degree. please don't get a communications degree lol...
240, bad bad advice.
It doesn't matter what your degree is in to get into law school. Actually, communications would be ideal. So would English. Lawyers pride themselves on there communication skills... something both degrees would provide.
Worst (still wouldn't preclude you from going) would be something like a biology degree etc.
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240, bad bad advice.
It doesn't matter what your degree is in to get into law school. Actually, communications would be ideal. So would English. Lawyers pride themselves on there communication skills... something both degrees would provide.
Worst (still wouldn't preclude you from going) would be something like a biology degree etc.
A degree in Criminal Justice would not be bad either. My wife is in her second year as an Attorney and is doing quite well.
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Working on a law degree now would make sense, by graduation or sooner the economy will have recovered. Good long-term investment.
Any accredited school's law program will be tough.
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240, bad bad advice.
It doesn't matter what your degree is in to get into law school. Actually, communications would be ideal. So would English. Lawyers pride themselves on there communication skills... something both degrees would provide.
Worst (still wouldn't preclude you from going) would be something like a biology degree etc.
Well, 240's right. I think you missed where he said that he would have the "option" to go to law school. It's a good point considering the high percentage of college students that graduate with a different degree then what they started for. In the case he decided not to go to law school he could use his degree for something other than an expensive frame on the wall.
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Working on a law degree now would make sense, by graduation or sooner the economy will have recovered. Good long-term investment.
Any accredited school's law program will be tough.
::) The economy as we knew it is DONE, FINISHED, OVA!!!!!!!!!!!! All the dumb sheeple in America can cling to the glory days but it's going to be decades before things are looking up for a majority of Americans i.e. the middle class. And the only way that is going to happen is if we get rid of the Federal Reserve, get a President in the White House that actually cares about the people, and stop these endless wars. Otherwise America is going the way of socialist Europe, the UK etc. This isn't gloom and doom, this is reality. College is a waste of money right now. You're better off getting into healthcare, agriculture, and energy. Farming, especially organic, is going to be HUGE in the coming decades, just watch!
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::) The economy as we knew it is DONE, FINISHED, OVA!!!!!!!!!!!! All the dumb sheeple in America can cling to the glory days but it's going to be decades before things are looking up for a majority of Americans i.e. the middle class. And the only way that is going to happen is if we get rid of the Federal Reserve, get a President in the White House that actually cares about the people, and stop these endless wars. Otherwise America is going the way of socialist Europe, the UK etc. This isn't gloom and doom, this is reality. College is a waste of money right now. You're better off getting into healthcare, agriculture, and energy. Farming, especially organic, is going to be HUGE in the coming decades, just watch!
OK while you overthrow the government the rest of us will stick to the existing economy. Some things will change in future, most things will remain the same actually.
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240, bad bad advice.
It doesn't matter what your degree is in to get into law school. Actually, communications would be ideal. So would English. Lawyers pride themselves on there communication skills... something both degrees would provide.
Worst (still wouldn't preclude you from going) would be something like a biology degree etc.
this is truly terrible advice, first off people with biology degrees and other engineering degrees from an undergraduate institution can go into patent law which is where are shitload of money can be made without even being on law review.
Secondly your undergraduate degree is really irrelevant unless you want to go into tax law, where being a cpa helps but is not absolutely necessary or if you want to go into patent law where you generally need an engineering degree.
My corporations professor in law school had an undergraduate degree in chinese studies, it didn't hinder his "communication skills"
As someone who just graduated and took the bar exam, my recommendation is that the debt incurred to go to law school may not be worth it. As someone mentioned it earlier the high paying corporate jobs are disappearing and more lawyers are having to settle for public sector and smaller private firms that don't pay that well.
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MuscleMcAnus is a nurse folks. He's THE definitive authority on the economy.
Is that you, Focker?
(http://www.umw.edu/hisa/resources/Student%20Projects/Singel/students.umw.edu/_ksing2os/polygraph/images/MeetTheParents_pic.jpg)
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Join the Peace Corp.
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OK while you overthrow the government the rest of us will stick to the existing economy. Some things will change in future, most things will remain the same actually.
Actually............. the existing economy is in crisis. Are you delusional? You honestly think things are going to change anytime soon? Some things will change in the future? What? What is going to change the direction of America? More wars? More bailouts? Corporations are bankrupt. Look at GE!!!!!!!!!!! Get back to me a year from now and we'll see if you have the rosy picture of the economy as you do now. Advising ANY young person to head off to college and pile up loads of debt is assinine advice right now. They are better off working a menial dead end service job, staying debt free, and educating themselves or getting some sort of technical degree. The professional white collar workforce ala overpriced higher education is being decimated. Law, medicine, etc. Nobody wants to go into medicine right now, especially primary care/family practice. The only ones heading into medicine right now are minorities from other countries i.e. Asians, Arabs/Persians, Indians etc. What's going on across the world has never happened before is unlike anything we've ever seen before, even the great depression. Eastern Europe is about the implode. Then Europe, and then the US. Wait and see.
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forget law school , just make money the way this guy does
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MuscleMcAnus is a nurse folks. He's THE definitive authority on the economy.
Is that you, Focker?
(http://www.umw.edu/hisa/resources/Student%20Projects/Singel/students.umw.edu/_ksing2os/polygraph/images/MeetTheParents_pic.jpg)
Hey fuck you asshole! While every one and their brother is getting laid off and sucking off the government tit my ass is getting overtime, bonuses, 7% raises every year. Is it the most exciting, glorious job in the world. Of course not. But right now it pays my bills and then some. What the fuck do you do for a living smart ass except sit around and play with your dick on getbig???????????
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As someone who just graduated and took the bar exam, my recommendation is that the debt incurred to go to law school may not be worth it. As someone mentioned it earlier the high paying corporate jobs are disappearing and more lawyers are having to settle for public sector and smaller private firms that don't pay that well.
You're basically taking a position here rather than being entirely objective. The cost-benefit depends on many variables including the cost of the particular school, the type of work one goes in to afterwards, etc. Even you admit it "may" not be worth it-inconclusive.
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Actually............. the existing economy is in crisis. Are you delusional? You honestly think things are going to change anytime soon? Some things will change in the future? What? What is going to change the direction of America? More wars? More bailouts? Corporations are bankrupt. Look at GE!!!!!!!!!!! Get back to me a year from now and we'll see if you have the rosy picture of the economy as you do now. Advising ANY young person to head off to college and pile up loads of debt is assinine advice right now. They are better off working a menial dead end service job, staying debt free, and educating themselves or getting some sort of technical degree. The professional white collar workforce ala overpriced higher education is being decimated. Law, medicine, etc. Nobody wants to go into medicine right now, especially primary care/family practice. The only ones heading into medicine right now are minorities from other countries i.e. Asians, Arabs/Persians, Indians etc. What's going on across the world has never happened before is unlike anything we've ever seen before, even the great depression. Eastern Europe is about the implode. Then Europe, and then the US. Wait and see.
Meltdown AKA very short term perspective, as in knee-jerk.
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Hey fuck you asshole! While every one and their brother is getting laid off and sucking off the government tit my ass is getting overtime, bonuses, 7% raises every year. Is it the most exciting, glorious job in the world. Of course not. But right now it pays my bills and then some. What the fuck do you do for a living smart ass except sit around and play with your dick on getbig???????????
Calm down, Focker! You been puffing the magic dragon again?
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Calm down, Focker! You been puffing the magic dragon again?
So don't dodge the question. You had the balls to call me out.......what do you do for a living?
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You're basically taking a position here rather than being entirely objective. The cost-benefit depends on many variables including the cost of the particular school, the type of work one goes in to afterwards, etc. Even you admit it "may" not be worth it-inconclusive.
hahah any aba accredited law school(which is required to take most state bars) will run you about 120k+ now add the price of an undergraduate education and you have almost a quarter of million dollars in education. Now add over 3+ years spent in class. Then realize you may have to take a job that pays 40 or 50k. From an economic standpoint the time and money it may not be objectively worth it. The vast majority of law students are not going to be graduating and getting a six figure job.
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hahah any aba accredited law school(which is required to take most state bars) will run you about 120k+ now add the price of an undergraduate education and you have almost a quarter of million dollars in education. Now add over 3+ years spent in class. Then realize you may have to take a job that pays 40 or 50k. From an economic standpoint the time and money it may not be objectively worth it. The vast majority of law students are not going to be graduating and getting a six figure job.
You keep using the work "may", thereby throwing your argument into disaray once again. The last thing i'd want is you representing me, with such shaky arguments. Imagine in legal circles lol In your case in particular, forget law!
As far as the costs you quote, those are ridiculous generalizations. Poor argument once again, almost as weak as your continued backpeddle through the use of "may" lol
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You keep using the work "may", thereby throwing your argument into disaray once again. I can see now why you're so pessimistic-you're not compelling in your argument here so imagine in legal circles lol In your case in particular, forget law!
As far as the costs you quote, those are ridiculous generalizations. Poor argument once again, almost as weak as your continued backpeddle through the use of "may" lol
Ok genius so what do you do for a living that makes you such an expert on college education and employment? Law school is a waste of money right now when you look at current job prospects for the next 10 years. There are better choices that require less money, less time, and are just as lucrative. You seem to have the mindset that the thousands upon thousands of kids that go to law school and graduate every year are landing these great jobs ala Mark Garagos making hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's naive and moronic. Just ask law grads in the past few years what their prospects have been.
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Ok genius so what do you do for a living that makes you such an expert on college education and employment? Law school is a waste of money right now when you look at current job prospects for the next 10 years. There are better choices that require less money, less time, and are just as lucrative. You seem to have the mindset that the thousands upon thousands of kids that go to law school and graduate every year are landing these great jobs ala Mark Garagos making hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's naive and moronic. Just ask law grads in the past few years what their prospects have been.
The way you talk in blacks and whites and focus on "right now" only is frightening lol
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The way you talk in blacks and whites and focus on "right now" only is frightening lol
Dude don't dodge the question. What do you do for a living?
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One of my friends went to law school and has been unable to find any work that will allow him to pay off his ludicrous law school loans. I feel bad for him but at the same time no one forced him to take on that much debt.
There is a gross oversupply of lawyers right now. Anyone contemplating a law career should check out this site, run by attorneys with decades of experience:
http://endofesq.com/ (http://endofesq.com/)
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You keep using the work "may", thereby throwing your argument into disaray once again. The last thing i'd want is you representing me, with such shaky arguments. Imagine in legal circles lol In your case in particular, forget law!
As far as the costs you quote, those are ridiculous generalizations. Poor argument once again, almost as weak as your continued backpeddle through the use of "may" lol
ridiculous generalizations?? I am talking about the majority of American law schools that are ranked by U.S. news. These are cold hard facts not "arguments".
By the way, aren't you an obese pedophile? I do not plan on doing blue collar criminal defense representation so you do not have to worry about running "legal circles" around me
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ridiculous generalizations?? I am talking about the majority of American law schools that are ranked by U.S. news. These are cold hard facts not "arguments".
By the way, aren't you an obese pedophile? I do not plan on doing blue collar criminal defense representation so you do not have to worry about running "legal circles" around me
Pumpster keeps dodging my question asking what he does for a living, typical.
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Pumpster keeps dodging my question asking what he does for a living, typical.
He's a Bowflex salesman
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the obese pedophile came on this law thread to try and argue and feel like a lawyer. haha so sad
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A law degree (Jurist Doctor) is not easy to get tons of reading and writing.
And as 240 said, get your undergrad in something useful. A lot of people study finance or accounting before law school because they want to specialize in tax law.
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He's a Bowflex salesman
lol talk about embarassing pumpster obsession from my stalker.
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
I dont really know what to do with my life. I love to argue, and if I could make up my mind and set a goal I would reach it.
Not that hard. You can do it in three years (full time) or four years (part time); a handful of schools now offer a two year J.D. but you go through the summer as well. There are pros and cons to this…
Unlike a doctorate (which is often open ended and many people drop out before finishing), the J.D. course of study is very prescribed; you take the classes, pass the tests, and you get the degree. But law school, and the profession, is not really about “arguing.” Many casual observers have this impression of law because that is what is featured in TV and movies, but most lawyers never set foot into a courtroom or engage in the kinds of back and forth one sees on television. Showing lawyers buried with hours of paper work is not dramatic so you don’t see that in popular media.
Many people assume that lawyers make a ton of money; that is not true. Do actors make a lot of money? Certainly, there are actors who make $25 million per picture, but there are also actors who work in community theatre and make $12K per year. The top people in any profession tend to make a lot of money and that is true in law as well.
Many prospective students assume they will be making big bucks in a firm, but there are lots of lawyers (perhaps a majority) making something like $40-70K and struggling to pay their law school debt. Unless you have someone willing to pay your tuition, you will leave law school with HUGE debt. How will you pay it if you do not end up in a plum job? Every year, hordes of graduating students have to answer this question.
Historically, law has been a prestige profession; it continues to be. As a practical matter what this means is that you must go to the right law school to improve your career prospects. Law schools are divided into tiers. If at all possible, you want to go to a first tier law school. Second tier schools are good too. I would not bother with a third or fourth tier school. People who went to 3rd and 4th tier schools will hate me for saying that but it is true. Again, law is a prestige profession. The people who say they don’t care about this are people who did not get into a 1st or 2nd tier school. Of course, it is entirely possible to attend a 3rd or 4th tier school and go on to have a very successful career.
When I was in law school (in California) the internet was booming and everyone was graduating and going into high tech… we all know how that turned out. I was a law school admissions dean back in the day. If you have specific questions you can send me a private message.
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Bay is spot on. I know this might sound silly but to be successful in the law field you have to be extremely self motivated, so it isn't something you'd pick because you can't think of anything else to do.
I have a cousin who's an attorney and he oversees the writing of corporate contracts. He rakes in the dough but the guy is something else. He planned it till he was a kid and his parents made sure he was well connected enough and had minimal debt after the completion of school.
Not trying to deter you RPF, but listen to BAY.
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what year of college are you in?
get a useful bachelors, so youll have the option to go into law, or just enter the workforce. get a degree in something you'll use in your area of law.
dont get an english or communications degree. please don't get a communications degree lol...
A communications degree is a good way to go if you know how to use it. How much money are you making per year? Exactly what do you do? What real world experience do you have in the business world or in major markets? Who have you worked for? What have you done? What jobs have you held?
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A communications degree is a good way to go if you know how to use it. How much money are you making per year? Exactly what do you do? What real world experience do you have in the business world or in major markets? Who have you worked for? What have you done? What jobs have you held?
If a person is talented, any degree can be enough. Heck, many people are millionaires and don't have any college at all.
I worked in the college career center at my university and we had a steady stream of seniors with minimal job opportunities and skills because 'communications' is a very weak degree. I'm not crapping on you if you have one - just stating that from my experience, it didn't help many people in a way that a business, marketing, journalism, or other degree would have. Too general, maybe. Of course, you give jay Z or Bill gates this degree and they'll crush the world. I just mean for the average person, it's weak.
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What real world experience do you have in the business world or in major markets? Who have you worked for? What have you done? What jobs have you held?
Personally, I led a team of dotnetnuke and xml programmers.
I taught grades 2 thru 8.
I wrote curriculum and taught microsoft networking.
i ran a 200+ node school network.
i designed and ran 40% of a university website for almost 2 years
i also bagged groceries for a long time at winn dixie, probably the most fun job of all.
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My wife is working fulltime and doing a law degree right now - it's a hell of alot of work and can be stressful at times but you just have to keep on going. I did my BA also while working full and part time and my MA while working fulltime so it can all be done but it takes a fair bit of discipline and determination. Many times I wanted to quit but you just have to keep on keeping on. Funny thing is my current vocation employs none of the disciplines I studied while at university. So make sure you elect to study something that you are actually going to use - it helps. ;)
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I would not bother with a third or fourth tier school. People who went to 3rd and 4th tier schools will hate me for saying that but it is true. Again, law is a prestige profession. The people who say they don’t care about this are people who did not get into a 1st or 2nd tier school.
Hey Professor,
I respectfully disagree. I have been a sole practitioner for 16 years and went to a 4th tier law school (New York Law School). After my first year, I was, academically speaking, ranked 240 out of a total 247 students.
It's not the school you go to that matters, it's what you do when you get out. The Bar exam doesn't know from which school you graduated; you either pass or you fail and everyone will agree that a 6 week prep course will teach you far more about the "law" than three years of law school.
Law is not a "prestige" profession in terms of intellectual requirements. There can be little dispute that doctors are much more intelligent than lawyers and will score higher on any standardized exam. I was a Bio-Chem and Philosophy major in college (Rutgers College, New Brunswick, again, not a top tier school) and the science guys were much smarter than the "communication" guys.
Law school doesn't prepare you for a career in law which led me to pursue an LL.M.(Master of Laws) in Trial Advocacy from Temple University Law School. Finally, a practical teaching of the law. Law school will very often cause more confusion as to where a person wishes to spend his occupational career.
And for those of you who think law school is too difficult for you to attend, you couldn't be more wrong. It's all about investing enough time in studying and reading. I later spent two years full time in a Ph.D. program which made law school seem like a kindergarten class. Any of you guys who can devote your time and energy to bodybuilding should be able to extrapolate that dedication to attending and graduating law school. And remember, not everyone wants to work for a big fancy firm that will look to see just who your parents know and associate with before hiring you.
It's not that I hate my own profession, I just think it's silly to exaggerate what it takes to achieve a law degree and those who inflate their own egos by perpetuating myths are too insecure to admit the truth. It's a nice profession which can serve many good purposes and provide for a comfortable living.
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Personally, I led a team of dotnetnuke and xml programmers.
I taught grades 2 thru 8.
I wrote curriculum and taught microsoft networking.
i ran a 200+ node school network.
i designed and ran 40% of a university website for almost 2 years
i also bagged groceries for a long time at winn dixie, probably the most fun job of all.
It looks like you have zero experience working for major cooperation’s or working in major markets throughout the United States. I have a communications degree and I have found that it has been a tremendous asset to me in the business world. How much are you making per year? With the way you speak, I was expecting to see some major achievements on your list. I'm not trying to belittle you (as you do to others), but I think you lack credibility since you have never worked outside of your small Florida town.
I worked hard for my degree. I started out at Bryant playing football and after the first year I transferred up to Boston University. Where did you go to school?
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I dont really know what to do with my life. I love to argue, and if I could make up my mind and set a goal I would reach it.
One of the pillars of ancient Greek education was rhetoric/ sophistry. Maybe try a debate club?
I agree with some others that enjoying debate doesn't necessarily mean you should become a lawyer. My $.02 is to pursue a nonspecific, liberal foundation with a view to seeing what interests you and what doesn't. Expose yourself (heyyooo!) to a broad range of subjects and follow your nose when you find a subject you like. Use the internet and independent study to discover the fields you enjoy, as well as the curriculum and faculty of your uni or HS.
Imo, do not pursue a field of study because you think it will help you make money. Study something you enjoy and make money with that.
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One of the pillars of ancient Greek education was rhetoric/ sophistry. Maybe try a debate club?
I agree with some others that enjoying debate doesn't necessarily mean you should become a lawyer. My $.02 is to pursue a nonspecific, liberal foundation with a view to seeing what interests you and what doesn't. Expose yourself (heyyooo!) to a broad range of subjects and follow your nose when you find a subject you like. Use the internet and independent study to discover the fields you enjoy, as well as the curriculum and faculty of your uni or HS.
Imo, do not pursue a field of study because you think it will help you make money. Study something you enjoy and make money with that.
I agree. Do what you love and love what you do.
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I agree. Do what you love and love what you do.
Right on. I'm considering a career change for that exact reason.
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I have a biology degree. I earn far more than if I'd gone to work in that field or pursued a career in medicine.
I did consider going to law school a few years ago.
My business partner has a law degree from Duke.
The value of my time at the university was that I got to network with other people who went to ACC schools.
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thanks dude, i'm in school to become a lawyer.
Aero Space 2 tough for ya?
I think I can speak for JohnnyVegas, 619Rules, Paul Hupp et all when I say if he could not do it you guys don't stand a chance.
Paul Hupp faild the bar for you bitches!!!!
The Beef
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Not too many other professionans where you can make 80,000 right out of school. Law degree=WORTHWHILE!
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Not that hard if you can read ;)
Seriously it takes a lot of effort but it is intresting and there is lot of money to be made. And there will always be criminals and other assholes to defend. Plus no mather what happens you will always get paid
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My job doesnt pay great but I like it
But i'll find out tommorrow if I get my dream job
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Not too many other professionans where you can make 80,000 right out of school. Law degree=WORTHWHILE!
Sure there are. If you're making good money in law, you likely work so much that you have little time to enjoy life. Its all about a happy medium between work and play. I know guys who make 65k per year that are happy as pigs in shit, because 1.) they like their jobs, and 2.) they have time to enjoy life.
The really successful people do what they love, make great money and have a few days a week to enjoy their life.
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My job doesnt pay great but I like it
But i'll find out tommorrow if I get my dream job
Thats what its all about.
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The really successful people do what they love, make great money and have a few days a week to enjoy their life.
I work my ass off, but I'm a professional schmoe and love going to work every day.
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Aero Space 2 tough for ya?
I think I can speak for JohnnyVegas, 619Rules, Paul Hupp et all when I say if he could not do it you guys don't stand a chance.
Paul Hupp faild the bar for you bitches!!!!
The Beef
"faild"?
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I dont really know what to do with my life. I love to argue, and if I could make up my mind and set a goal I would reach it.
RonPaulFan,
I like to argue also, especially through my writing, but debating in general is fun. The relationship of this to what lawyers do also made me consider the possibility of a law degree. While I am still considering it, I'm currently an English major and am also considering to continue my education with a focus on political science. When you say you love to argue and since your user name has Ron Paul in it (he's the man), I assume discussing politics interests you a lot, so you may consider studying political science to help focus on this aspect more. Also, like I said I am an English major and while many look at it as a doomed degree, I feel as though it is very open, leaving paths paved to many opportunities in terms of continuing education and in terms of a career (especially when combined with the right work experience). I dont know what level of education youre currently at, but an undergrad degree in English is a better idea than most people make it seem. Good luck.
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Not everyone who ends up as a lawyer is going to be in front of a jury battling the likes of Mark Garagos/Robert Shapiro. Those guys are the cream of the crop. Most lawyers never even see the inside of a courtroom trial by jury type cases anyways.
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I work my ass off, but I'm a professional schmoe and love going to work every day.
Exactly. If schmoeing makes you happy and you make a great living at it then more power to you. People who work their ass off and they enjoy what they are doing don't feel like they are wasting their life away. They have spare time because they use downtime to work for the love of their profession.
Chances are if you love what you are doing it comes naturally and your very efficient at it.
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Just like any other career, law has its ups and downs. I have been an attorney for 7 years. I did my 4 years of undergrad and went straight to law school for 3 more years. You can make money in the legal profession and work 9 to 5 monday through friday. The miserable lawyers are the ones that carry the "partners" briefcase and do all of the research. I am in Court every day. I like advocating on behalf of my client. It is an adreniline rush. I would recommend it to anyone. But like in any other profession, it is better to be your own boss.
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
I have an LLB.
I would say that if you're a studious person, then you can easily obtain a law degree. It's not so much the fact that the modules are hard, it's the level of depth that you have to go into. Prior to studying a law degree, you may not be used to it.
Work hard...it becomes easy. I just had to change my overall attitude to studying.
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My job doesnt pay great but I like it
But i'll find out tommorrow if I get my dream job
what is your dreamjob?
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what is your dreamjob?
NPC nationals is tomorrow
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i'm not competing
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i'm not competing
okami is
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okami is
but he said he was clean now because of his job, he is competing for a pro card without drugs ???
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I dont really know what to do with my life. I love to argue.
I would say just get married ;D
Just the love of arguing isn't a good enough reason to go into law. You should attend a few court sessions, sit in, and see if you like being in that environment and litigating in front of others. There are many other areas of law but as many have suggested, do it because you have a passion for it, not simply because you love to argue.
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Thanks for all the extremely helpful replies.
Honestly, I'd probably enjoy being a "House Husband" most of all. I need to focus on finding a woman who makes big bucks. 8)
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but he said he was clean now because of his job, he is competing for a pro card without drugs ???
Haha man I never said I was doin the Nationals,I live in Ireland anyway
I'll reveal my dream job tomorrow,if I get it
If I dont get it then i'll try again in future
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Haha man I never said I was doin the Nationals,I live in Ireland anyway
I'll reveal my dream job tomorrow,if I get it
If I dont get it then i'll try again in future
I thought you were a firefighter? ???
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I am,and I quite like it (just posted pic in the obese policeman thread actually)
But another job Ive always wanted may come my way tommrrow
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i got a degree in political science.
now i'm in construction (management).
i hate it, but i hate it less than my other option , which was to go to law school.
my sister's wrapping her law degree up, more power to her, but i can't stand those fucks in their 200 dollar suits.
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i got a degree in political science.
now i'm in construction (management).
i hate it, but i hate it less than my other option , which was to go to law school.
my sister's wrapping her law degree up, more power to her, but i can't stand those fucks in their 200 dollar suits.
Awesome avatar ;D
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Haha man I never said I was doin the Nationals,I live in Ireland anyway
I'll reveal my dream job tomorrow,if I get it
If I dont get it then i'll try again in future
lol that was just a joke man^^
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Thanks for all the extremely helpful replies.
Honestly, I'd probably enjoy being a "House Husband" most of all. I need to focus on finding a woman who makes big bucks. 8)
good thinking!
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i got a degree in political science.
now i'm in construction (management).
i hate it, but i hate it less than my other option , which was to go to law school.
my sister's wrapping her law degree up, more power to her, but i can't stand those fucks in their 200 dollar suits.
haha. ... you think two hundred is expensive for a suit? haha... where the hell do you buy suits at? KMart?
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haha. ... you think two hundred is expensive for a suit? haha... where the hell do you buy suits at? KMart?
Haha no shit this Power Rod character is a real dipshit! $200 suit! LMAO! Try ten times that much moron!
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the more expensive clothes the less you have under :D
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Haha no shit this Power Rod character is a real dipshit! $200 suit! LMAO! Try ten times that much moron!
I thought he was making fun of them for having cheap suits? ??? lol
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me too
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i thought he was saying he didn't like lawyer's and their $200 dollar suits.. i.e. they are crooked etc, make a lot of money, and can afford the 200 dollar suits...
200 bucks for a suit ain't happenin' fellas! (unless it's junk)
a decent cheaper suit would be about 500. I had a custom made one done up for 800 and that wasn't bad. But they're a long term investment and worth every penny. You really can tell the difference bt a shit suit and a good one.
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i thought he was saying he didn't like lawyer's and their $200 dollar suits.. i.e. they are crooked etc, make a lot of money, and can afford the 200 dollar suits...
200 bucks for a suit ain't happenin' fellas! (unless it's junk)
a decent cheaper suit would be about 500. I had a custom made one done up for 800 and that wasn't bad. But they're a long term investment and worth every penny. You really can tell the difference bt a shit suit and a good one.
I just bought two Zegna suits for 3k total. Worth every cent. Good suits make you money.
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i thought he was saying he didn't like lawyer's and their $200 dollar suits.. i.e. they are crooked etc, make a lot of money, and can afford the 200 dollar suits...
200 bucks for a suit ain't happenin' fellas! (unless it's junk)
a decent cheaper suit would be about 500. I had a custom made one done up for 800 and that wasn't bad. But they're a long term investment and worth every penny. You really can tell the difference bt a shit suit and a good one.
i think the mens warehouse has suits from $100
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I just bought two Zegna suits for 3k total. Worth every cent. Good suits make you money.
Bingo.
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I don't even own a tie.
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I don't even own a tie.
Do you own a smoking jacket?
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Do you own a smoking jacket?
Haha, no but I own a robe which is exactly like Tony Soprano's.
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Is Law School a Losing Game?
By DAVID SEGAL
IF there is ever a class in how to remain calm while trapped beneath $250,000 in loans, Michael Wallerstein ought to teach it.
Here he is, sitting one afternoon at a restaurant on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, a tall, sandy-haired, 27-year-old radiating a kind of surfer-dude serenity. His secret, if that’s the right word, is to pretty much ignore all the calls and letters that he receives every day from the dozen or so creditors now hounding him for cash.
“And I don’t open the e-mail alerts with my credit score,” he adds. “I can’t look at my credit score any more.”
Mr. Wallerstein, who can’t afford to pay down interest and thus watches the outstanding loan balance grow, is in roughly the same financial hell as people who bought more home than they could afford during the real estate boom. But creditors can’t foreclose on him because he didn’t spend the money on a house.
He spent it on a law degree. And from every angle, this now looks like a catastrophic investment.
Well, every angle except one: the view from law schools. To judge from data that law schools collect, and which is published in the closely parsed U.S. News and World Report annual rankings, the prospects of young doctors of jurisprudence are downright rosy.
In reality, and based on every other source of information, Mr. Wallerstein and a generation of J.D.’s face the grimmest job market in decades. Since 2008, some 15,000 attorney and legal-staff jobs at large firms have vanished, according to a Northwestern Law study. Associates have been laid off, partners nudged out the door and recruitment programs have been scaled back or eliminated.
And with corporations scrutinizing their legal expenses as never before, more entry-level legal work is now outsourced to contract temporary employees, both in the United States and in countries like India. It’s common to hear lawyers fret about the sort of tectonic shift that crushed the domestic steel industry decades ago.
But improbably enough, law schools have concluded that life for newly minted grads is getting sweeter, at least by one crucial measure. In 1997, when U.S. News first published a statistic called “graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation,” law schools reported an average employment rate of 84 percent. In the most recent U.S. News rankings, 93 percent of grads were working — nearly a 10-point jump.
In the Wonderland of these statistics, a remarkable number of law school grads are not just busy — they are raking it in. Many schools, even those that have failed to break into the U.S. News top 40, state that the median starting salary of graduates in the private sector is $160,000. That seems highly unlikely, given that Harvard and Yale, at the top of the pile, list the exact same figure.
How do law schools depict a feast amid so much famine?
“Enron-type accounting standards have become the norm,” says William Henderson of Indiana University, one of many exasperated law professors who are asking the American Bar Association to overhaul the way law schools assess themselves. “Every time I look at this data, I feel dirty.”
IT is an open secret, Professor Henderson and others say, that schools finesse survey information in dozens of ways. And the survey’s guidelines, which are established not by U.S. News but by the American Bar Association, in conjunction with an organization called the National Association for Law Placement, all but invite trimming.
A law grad, for instance, counts as “employed after nine months” even if he or she has a job that doesn’t require a law degree. Waiting tables at Applebee’s? You’re employed. Stocking aisles at Home Depot? You’re working, too.
Number-fudging games are endemic, professors and deans say, because the fortunes of law schools rise and fall on rankings, with reputations and huge sums of money hanging in the balance. You may think of law schools as training grounds for new lawyers, but that is just part of it.
They are also cash cows.
Tuition at even mediocre law schools can cost up to $43,000 a year. Those huge lecture-hall classes — remember “The Paper Chase”? — keep teaching costs down. There are no labs or expensive equipment to maintain. So much money flows into law schools that law professors are among the highest paid in academia, and law schools that are part of universities often subsidize the money-losing fields of higher education.
“If you’re a law school and you add 25 kids to your class, that’s a million dollars, and you don’t even have to hire another teacher,” says Allen Tanenbaum, a lawyer in Atlanta who led the American Bar Association’s commission on the impact of the economic crisis on the profession and legal needs. “That additional income goes straight to the bottom line.”
There were fewer complaints about fudging and subsidizing when legal jobs were plentiful. But student loans have always been the financial equivalent of chronic illnesses because there is no legal way to shake them. So the glut of diplomas, the dearth of jobs and those candy-coated employment statistics have now yielded a crop of furious young lawyers who say they mortgaged their future under false pretenses. You can sample their rage, and their admonitions, on what are known as law school scam blogs, with names like Shilling Me Softly, Subprime JD and Rose Colored Glasses.
“Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”
But so far, the warnings have been unheeded. Job openings for lawyers have plunged, but law schools are not dialing back enrollment. About 43,000 J.D.’s were handed out in 2009, 11 percent more than a decade earlier, and the number of law schools keeps rising — nine new ones in the last 10 years, and five more seeking approval to open in the future.
Apparently, there is no shortage of 22-year-olds who think that law school is the perfect place to wait out a lousy economy and the gasoline that fuels this system — federally backed student loans — is still widely available. But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle. Which is why many law school professors privately are appalled by what they describe as a huge and continuing transfer of wealth, from students short on cash to richly salaried academics. Or perhaps this is more like a game of three-card monte, with law schools flipping the aces and a long line of eager players, most wagering borrowed cash, in a contest that few of them can win.
And all those losers can remain cash-poor for a long time. “I think the student loans that kids leave law school with are more scandalous than payday loans,” says Andrew Morriss, a law professor at the University of Alabama. “And because it’s so easy to get a student loan, law school tuition has grossly outpaced the rate of inflation for the last 20 years. It’s now astonishingly high.”
Like everything else about the law, however, the full picture here is complicated. Independent surveys find that most law students would enroll even if they knew that only a tiny number of them would wind up with six-figure salaries. Nearly all of them, it seems, are convinced that they’re going to win the ring toss at this carnival and bring home the stuffed bear.
And many students enroll for reasons other than immediate financial returns. Mr. Wallerstein, for instance, was drawn by the prestige of the degree. He has no regrets, at least for now, even though he seems doomed to a type of indentured servitude at least through his 30s.
“Law school might not be worth it for another 10 or 15 years,” he says, “but the riskier approach always has the bigger payoff.”
True, say Professor Henderson and his allies. But he contends that law schools — which, let’s not forget, require students to take courses on disclosure and ethics — have a special moral obligation to tell the truth about themselves. It’s an obligation that persists, he says, even if students would sign on the dotted line no matter what...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&ref=homepage&src=me&pagewanted=all
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I own a tie now. Haven't put it on.
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As I suggested on page 2, unless you attend a first or second tier law school (or you can get someone else to pay your tuition) the path to prosperity for young people today via law school is like walking a tightrope (without any practice); your likelihood of success is very slim.
Law school graduates are saddled with huge debit $120k- $200k+ and the plum, well paying jobs are only going to graduates from first/second tier and in the top of their classes--or to people with connections.
It's a huge bait and switch. :-[
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(http://www.anchorties.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/tie_a_double-windsor-knot.gif)
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
Not that hard, but a shit load of work.
1 year is a mountain of work and stress.
2nd year - shit load of work but not as much stress
3rd year - easy - but sed to prepare for bar exam.
Bar Exam - not that hard if ou prepare early enough.
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Law School is not tough?
I feel for the people who go to crappy law schools though and come out with 6 figures in student loans though. They are the ones who someone should have tapped and said, "hey, why dont you use that loan and start a business or something"...
I had plenty of friends in law school when I was in undergrad and it was a lot like bodybuilding. You use study drugs to improve performance.
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Law School is not tough?
I feel for the people who go to crappy law schools though and come out with 6 figures in student loans though. They are the ones who someone should have tapped and said, "hey, why dont you use that loan and start a business or something"...
I had plenty of friends in law school when I was in undergrad and it was a lot like bodybuilding. You use study drugs to improve performance.
I did not think it was that hard, a shit load of work no doubt, but I enjoyed it a lot.
I'm a geek when it comes to academics so I busted my ass and found it a lt of work, but not difficult.
I also passed the bar easily the first time and sat there for over an hour at the end with nothing to do. Basementof the Javits Center.
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I had plenty of friends in law school when I was in undergrad and it was a lot like bodybuilding. You use study drugs to improve performance.
I was going to start a thread regarding this actually... any suggestions regarding nootropics?
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I have a law degree from a good Canadian law school. Once accepted, I found it pretty clear sailing. But getting accepted isn't so easy. My school only has 100 first year students each year, of which at least 50 have to be women plus some more spots are reserved for first nations students and students with physical disabilities. So I was competing for entry with other white males for no more than 40 openings (out of thousands of applications.) Once in, there's tons of assigned reading (for those who want to do it) but I preferred to be quite selective about what I read haha. In fact, my three years of law school were probably my best years of training in the gym of my life.
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The problem with being an attorney today is that the field is saturated. Most think most attorneys are driving a big BMW with the 4000 square foot house but the reality is different. The majority in north New Jersey where I live are not breaking 100 K. I can't imagine it being better in a rural state. I'm in various municipal courts a lot and all I see from lawyers are cheap wrinkled suits in very common cars. The guys making big money are the over whelming minority.
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The problem with being an attorney today is that the field is saturated. Most think most attorneys are driving a big BMW with the 4000 square foot house but the reality is different. The majority in north New Jersey where I live are not breaking 100 K. I can't imagine it being better in a rural state. I'm in various municipal courts a lot and all I see from lawyers are cheap wrinkled suits in very common cars. The guys making big money are the over whelming minority.
Agreed. I graduated in 2007 and have worked since. I'm at roughly $70k and consider that good compared to other guys I graduated with. Most have a hard time locking down a job. AND the hours are horrible. Constant work. And lets not even goe into the debt one incurs paying for law school.
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How tuff is it to get a Law Degree? ???
If you have a really good memory, then you should be able to earn a law degree in two years of daily study. Jurisprudence doesen't require much intelligence but does require lots of rote learning. Becoming jurist is different, because in this case you need to understand precedents and put laws in hierarquies that are logical and functional, and that requires raw brain power. Lawyers are a dime a dozen, but good jurists are rare and are some of the smartest people you'll ever know.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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LOL. Harvard Law tough or night school law tough?
There is such a thing as night school law?
"1"
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Agreed. I graduated in 2007 and have worked since. I'm at roughly $70k and consider that good compared to other guys I graduated with. Most have a hard time locking down a job. AND the hours are horrible. Constant work. And lets not even goe into the debt one incurs paying for law school.
Damn bro I make almost 6 figures as an RN with a two year degree. LOL But I also wipe ass sometimes and put in foley catheters into old man penises and stinky 90 year old vag.
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Damn bro I make almost 6 figures as an RN with a two year degree. LOL But I also wipe ass sometimes and put in foley catheters into old man penises and stinky 90 year old vag.
that must be why this prophecy of yours on page one came true:
Actually............. the existing economy is in crisis. Are you delusional? You honestly think things are going to change anytime soon? Some things will change in the future? What? What is going to change the direction of America? More wars? More bailouts? Corporations are bankrupt. Look at GE!!!!!!!!!!! Get back to me a year from now and we'll see if you have the rosy picture of the economy as you do now. Advising ANY young person to head off to college and pile up loads of debt is assinine advice right now. They are better off working a menial dead end service job, staying debt free, and educating themselves or getting some sort of technical degree. The professional white collar workforce ala overpriced higher education is being decimated. Law, medicine, etc. Nobody wants to go into medicine right now, especially primary care/family practice. The only ones heading into medicine right now are minorities from other countries i.e. Asians, Arabs/Persians, Indians etc. What's going on across the world has never happened before is unlike anything we've ever seen before, even the great depression. Eastern Europe is about the implode. Then Europe, and then the US. Wait and see.
GE:
when you posted in 2009:
GE was at $10.78
today:
GE closed at over $18.
Looks like if i listened to you i wouldn't have made any money. But thankfully those who don't smell urine and penises for a living have doubled their investment in 2 years just sitting on their ass.
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I'm thinking about going into Trademark Law, due to a issue I ran into with a invention---I've shoud have been in Law School 8 yrs ago....
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I'm thinking about going into Trademark Law, due to a issue I ran into with a invention---I've shoud have been in Law School 8 yrs ago....
Get someone else to pay for it andtry to get a job lined up before hand.
Its not easy out there. I work for myself, and you have to be not only a lawyer, but a rainmaker, accountant, salesperson, ar, ap, etc, not to mention be a good lawyer and keep clients happy.
If I had to do it over again, I would have gone to college, become a fireman first after college, go to law school at night. Build up a small practice over the years whle earning a alary as a fireman with benes, and then practice law exclusively after 45 y/o.
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Get someone else to pay for it andtry to get a job lined up before hand.
Its not easy out there. I work for myself, and you have to be not only a lawyer, but a rainmaker, accountant, salesperson, ar, ap, etc, not to mention be a good lawyer and keep clients happy.
If I had to do it over again, I would have gone to college, become a fireman first after college, go to law school at night. Build up a small practice over the years whle earning a alary as a fireman with benes, and then practice law exclusively after 45 y/o.
I've been in the MD Judiciary since 2001, and my job affords me to go to school in the daytime (and recommendations) and since I live outside of DC and Baltimore, I hope I can have a job lined up....I will not do criminal law, I deal too much with the ish on a daily basis
Thanks for the advice...
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that must be why this prophecy of yours on page one came true:
GE:
when you posted in 2009:
GE was at $10.78
today:
GE closed at over $18.
Looks like if i listened to you i wouldn't have made any money. But thankfully those who don't smell urine and penises for a living have doubled their investment in 2 years just sitting on their ass.
Haha dumbass..........GE used to be over 40 per share and it dropped to below 8 in 2009. So it went back up to $18. Big deal. The stock market is almost back to pre recession levels too..........your fucking point? You don't have one! The stock market is SO overvalued and will be back down below 8k in another few years year. Then what? You can quote me again in a year when gas is $4-5 a gallon and GE is back under 10. ::)
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Damn bro I make almost 6 figures as an RN with a two year degree. LOL But I also wipe ass sometimes and put in foley catheters into old man penises and stinky 90 year old vag.
Exactly. But, you're well paid for it.
It's a trade off.
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Get someone else to pay for it andtry to get a job lined up before hand.
Its not easy out there. I work for myself, and you have to be not only a lawyer, but a rainmaker, accountant, salesperson, ar, ap, etc, not to mention be a good lawyer and keep clients happy.
If I had to do it over again, I would have gone to college, become a fireman first after college, go to law school at night. Build up a small practice over the years whle earning a alary as a fireman with benes, and then practice law exclusively after 45 y/o.
That's what I did. ;)
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whats the big attraction to getting into law. sitting on your ass readin law books all day?
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Join the Salvation Army and go kick some ass overseas...