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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: mesmorph78 on March 27, 2009, 01:07:57 PM
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Ive listened to a few guys here pumpster Jpm coltrane to name a few and cut back the volumn on arms to about 4 or 5 excersises for tris..
and its worked .. put a little more size on the tris... still same condition all really cut bout a quarter inch on the arms...
also... brandon curry ladder tris on the smith.. one of the absolute BEST tri movements..ever... no elbow pain .. and adds fulness
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ladder tris on the smith.. one of the absolute BEST tri movements..ever... no elbow pain .. and adds fulness
What is that?
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bodyweight tricep extensions....
as seen here
works magic for my tris
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Would like to have heard more of his thoughts and less from the other guy! Warming up the tris is important, as he says.
Those bodyweight extensions are ok but put a lot of pressure on the elbows and it's hard to add more resistance, so it seems to me they're limited as a main focus and better for a good finishing pump and stretch.
On the smith i like the following, that can be better than using free weights because there's no balancing, the grips can be different and more comfortable, and it's easier to go to failure without worry due to the safety of it:
-Decline/flat close-grip benches.
-Seated/standing/incline close-grip presses above head.
-Seated/standing/incline extensions above head.
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doesnt trouble my elbows at all.. but i do warm up the elbows before i do anything like that
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Ive listened to a few guys here pumpster Jpm coltrane to name a few and cut back the volumn on arms to about 4 or 5 excersises for tris..
and its worked .. put a little more size on the tris... still same condition all really cut bout a quarter inch on the arms...
also... brandon curry ladder tris on the smith.. one of the absolute BEST tri movements..ever... no elbow pain .. and adds fulness
post a new picture big guy
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post a new pic Meso!
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wsup mezo.. i will post stuff soon... ive been a bit skeptical to do so....
too much peoople here who arent really interested in training but just to try to... put others down...
but i will soon.. maybe next week
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wsup mezo.. i will post stuff soon... ive been a bit skeptical to do so....
too much peoople here who arent really interested in training but just to try to... put others down...
but i will soon.. maybe next week
just for motivation bro!
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Have heard the Ladder exercise referred to as tricep push off's or push backs. Very easy to control the resistance on the triceps by a small shift of the body/feet, or the grip chosen, with the Ladder or whatever name given. Even though a bwt movement, with a little experimenting you can make if feel anywhere from 10lb resistance to 100, or more, on the triceps. Can even shift the body/feet and have one arm do most of the work, so to have most of a focus on one arm and than the other. How far away, or close to the BB, your are standing helps. Some guy's will split the feet when doing this exercise, one foot in front of the other. Anyway, get an outstanding stretch on the triceps when done the right way.
Some BB'ers use a "A" frame rack, when setting the BB to different heights. Though with that shifting of bwt/feet you can keep the BB on one level throughout the tricep workout, making it harder (lower reps) or easier (higher reps). Have to try a few sets to see if you get a negative response on the elbows/wrist. Though with seeing this tricep exercise done quite a bit, it gets mostly praise. Good Luck.
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I've done extensive research on this subject and my studies show that there's a direct correlation between arm growth and lifting weights...
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I've done extensive research on this subject and my studies show that there's a direct correlation between arm growth and lifting weights...
;D
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I could deadlift 405 twice after EIGHT years of training
;D
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Have heard the Ladder exercise referred to as tricep push off's or push backs. Very easy to control the resistance on the triceps by a small shift of the body/feet, or the grip chosen, with the Ladder or whatever name given. Even though a bwt movement, with a little experimenting you can make if feel anywhere from 10lb resistance to 100, or more, on the triceps. Can even shift the body/feet and have one arm do most of the work, so to have most of a focus on one arm and than the other. How far away, or close to the BB, your are standing helps. Some guy's will split the feet when doing this exercise, one foot in front of the other. Anyway, get an outstanding stretch on the triceps when done the right way.
Some BB'ers use a "A" frame rack, when setting the BB to different heights. Though with that shifting of bwt/feet you can keep the BB on one level throughout the tricep workout, making it harder (lower reps) or easier (higher reps). Have to try a few sets to see if you get a negative response on the elbows/wrist. Though with seeing this tricep exercise done quite a bit, it gets mostly praise. Good Luck.
I do three ladders 10 on knee level then no rest move it up one notch 10 , teh ten more on the higher notch.. gives a deep burn
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bodyweight tricep extensions....
as seen here
works magic for my tris
Arnold talks about those in his Encyclopedia I think.
I'm not sure, but I seem to remember seeing it in M & F or something, but there was an article where Arnold was asked to pick ONE exercise per muscle group as being his favorites. Obviously he said the "Arnold Press" for shoulders, I think Front Squats for Quads, Bench Press for Chest...and his favorite Triceps exercises: Ladder Extensions. I remember I thought to myself 'that's not really such a complicated movement....' I guess it just seemed that there are other exercises that are more glorified; CGBP, Skullcrushers or Dips, etc...
I also remember the article had Lee Priest demonstrating each exercise.
I usually do that exercise, but more as a stretching movement, not as a main movement during a workout. I think I'll give the "Ladder Effect" a try. :)
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Some BB'ers use a "A" frame rack, when setting the BB to different heights. Though with that shifting of bwt/feet you can keep the BB on one level throughout the tricep workout, making it harder (lower reps) or easier (higher reps). Have to try a few sets to see if you get a negative response on the elbows/wrist. Though with seeing this tricep exercise done quite a bit, it gets mostly praise. Good Luck.
Changing foot positioning is most practical for me.
And it’s ability to be done quickly makes it ideal for doing drop sets.
Elbows aren’t usually a problem for me so long as I lower myself slowly and avoid bouncing at the bottom of the movement.
I even have a history of moderate elbow problems and found this movement to be among the more tolerable ones.
I would rather take the rep slower than shortening the ROM.
I really believe the stretch is a major component of this move’s effectiveness.
This movement is similar to a kneeling, overhead triceps cable extension that Larry Scott used to great effect in the 60’s.
Larry's version is VERY forgiving on elbow joints.
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This movement is similar to a kneeling, overhead triceps cable extension that Larry Scott used to great effect in the 60’s.
Larry's version is VERY forgiving on elbow joints.
Oh ya, i know all about these and although they look similar, it's all about angles in all these things and i find that where the pedestral hits right where it should (and most don't) in the belly/middle of the long head, the bodyweight ones emphasize the tissue and area around the elbows.
I've never seen any indication of Arold using that exercise in his routines-the only time i've seen him use it was as part of a backstage pumpup prior to a show.
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Oh ya, i know all about these and although they look similar, it's all about angles in all these things and i find that where the pedestral hits right where it should (and most don't) in the belly/middle of the long head, the bodyweight ones emphasize the tissue and area around the elbows.
I've never seen any indication of Arold using that exercise in his routines-the only time i've seen him use it was as part of a backstage pumpup prior to a show.
kneeling overhead tri extionsions.. done with what handle....?
can yu give a brief discription on how its done?
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kneeling overhead tri extionsions.. done with what handle....?
can yu give a brief discription on how its done?
Larry Scott used to make a "twin pedestal" bench where you kneeled on the floor and put your arms on pads and had a space for your head in the middle, claimed it was the best long head tricep builder there was.
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so a flat bench ... cable attachmet from the top elbows on the bench?
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so a flat bench ... cable attachmet from the top elbows on the bench?
that'll work or just do 'em the way most people do them by standing up with your back facing the stack and do them overhead.
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ok sounds good def give them a try in tomorrows arm workout
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ok sounds good def give them a try in tomorrows arm workout
they seem like more of a last exercise type of thing to me kind of like pushdowns but any movement can be a mass builder if done right, lately we've been doing 3 HEAVY sets of close grip bench followed by a lighter 12-15 reps set with 225 and then db one arm overheads and either lying extensions or pushdowns.
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meso, do you really need more tricep development? ??? :o
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meso, do you really need more tricep development? ??? :o
hahahaa, dude does have some big ass arms for sure.
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hahahaa, dude does have some big ass arms for sure.
it's funny that he thinks the volume built his triceps, while he says he can do 315 close grip benches for reps
anybody who can do that must have some big ass triceps anyways regardless of volume lol
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it's funny that he thinks the volume built his triceps, while he says he can do 315 close grip benches for reps
anybody who can do that must have some big ass triceps anyways regardless of volume lol
all kidding aside though meso is a hard trainer and obviously strong.
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that'll work or just do 'em the way most people do them by standing up with your back facing the stack and do them overhead.
X2
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so a flat bench ... cable attachmet from the top elbows on the bench?
Here's a picture of Larry doing his version.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Larry20scott_129.jpg)
I used to do this movement with an ordinary flat bench. Just rest your forehead on the very edge of the side.
Scott's original instructions:
"The pulley should be about 5 feet off the floor. The twin pedestal bench should be about 15 inches off the floor. Oh I almost forgot. You need to have a V bar to make this combination work it’s magic. Also, the bar should be at least 2 inches in diameter."
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thanks for the pic will try those today
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Here's a picture of Larry doing his version.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Larry20scott_129.jpg)
I used to do this movement with an ordinary flat bench. Just rest your forehead on the very edge of the side.
Scott's original instructions:
"The pulley should be about 5 feet off the floor. The twin pedestal bench should be about 15 inches off the floor. Oh I almost forgot. You need to have a V bar to make this combination work it’s magic. Also, the bar should be at least 2 inches in diameter."
Haha work it's magic? There's nothing special to that movement that you can't get out of a good set of good ol tricep pushdowns, french presses or any other basic tri exercise. The key to growth is not which exercise you do. It's how you train the muscle. Going to failure, doing more voluming and pumping type work. Cycling the two etc.
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Haha work it's magic? There's nothing special to that movement that you can't get out of a good set of good ol tricep pushdowns, french presses or any other basic tri exercise.
Early Weider advertising at it's finest!
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That Larry Scott cable version has been done with a long rope (seen it used with a judo belt) with a training partner standing behind and applying the resistance. Either with the elbows on a regular benc, stool or just lying flat down on a mat.
The advantage of having someone apply the resistance is that you can go from very heavy to very light resistance on the exercise. Can control the beginning from very hard for the first few reps to more moderate/light for the last few reps for an awesome pump.
Another advantage is that you can also do negative movements, with the training partners help. Combining positive and negative max reps in the same exercise. Triceps tend to blow up like nothing else. Very close to the original Nautilus principle of hitting the three phase resistance muscle function. In any event, it is a killer tricep exercise.
The ladder, push off, etc can well be used as the only triceps exercise in a workout. It can be adapted to become a mass builder when done right. Good Luck.
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That Larry Scott cable version has been done with a long rope (seen it used with a judo belt) with a training partner standing behind and applying the resistance. Either with the elbows on a regular benc, stool or just lying flat down on a mat.
The advantage of having someone apply the resistance is that you can go from very heavy to very light resistance on the exercise. Can control the beginning from very hard for the first few reps to more moderate/light for the last few reps for an awesome pump.
Another advantage is that you can also do negative movements, with the training partners help. Combining positive and negative max reps in the same exercise. Triceps tend to blow up like nothing else. Very close to the original Nautilus principle of hitting the three phase resistance muscle function. In any event, it is a killer tricep exercise.
The ladder, push off, etc can well be used as the only triceps exercise in a workout. It can be adapted to become a mass builder when done right. Good Luck.
my tri routine today was
one arm press downs warm up
pressdowns
seated ez bar extensions
tricep ladders 4 step ladder + one sets ..3 sts in total
one arm over head extensions..
then rope pushdowns
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tris felt great
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Haha work it's magic? There's nothing special to that movement that you can't get out of a good set of good ol tricep pushdowns, french presses or any other basic tri exercise. The key to growth is not which exercise you do. It's how you train the muscle. Going to failure, doing more voluming and pumping type work. Cycling the two etc.
.. i dont agree some excersises hit the muscle better than others for me....
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Haha work it's magic? There's nothing special to that movement that you can't get out of a good set of good ol tricep pushdowns, french presses or any other basic tri exercise. The key to growth is not which exercise you do. It's how you train the muscle. Going to failure, doing more voluming and pumping type work. Cycling the two etc.
;D
That's just Larry's style of writing.
It's also how he talks.
He seems like a really nice guy, who in a way reminds me a bit of the late (and heavily afro'd) Bob Ross from The Joy of Painting.
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Haha work it's magic? There's nothing special to that movement that you can't get out of a good set of good ol tricep pushdowns, french presses or any other basic tri exercise. The key to growth is not which exercise you do. It's how you train the muscle. Going to failure, doing more voluming and pumping type work. Cycling the two etc.
That's insane; the exercises matter a lot, just like the degree of work matters. As far as those standard choices you brought up, typical pushdowns i'd put at the bottom of the heap. One of the least effective exercises; the thing is the masses incuding you never question anything so you just follow like sheep. None of the exercises you listed works the same as the pedestal extension.
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i always thought pushdowns were ok depending on the handle being used whats your take on rope pushdowns?
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i tend to agree with mcmannus..... a muscle contraction is a muscle contration and exercise choice doesnt matter too much at all...however certain exercises tend to stress certain areas better than others... larry scott said thi particular movemtn was great for a particular head of the tricep... which i dont doubt it is.... some exercises stress different parts of a muscle differently...so to the exten that you need to fully develop every area of every muscle, yes exercise selection would matter....
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IMO, anyone who thinks the exercises are essentially the same:
-Hasn't tried enough of them to discern some of the differences.
-Hasn't really experienced optimal mind-muscle connections, which requires among other things the most effective exercises.
Big difference when these are factored in. With experience and knowing what works the best, training becomes more efficient and less time-consuming.
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IMO, anyone who thinks the exercises are essentially the same:
-Hasn't tried enough of them to discern some of the differences.
-Hasn't really experienced optimal mind-muscle connections, which requires among other things the most effective exercises.
Big difference when these are factored in. With experience and knowing what works the best, training becomes more efficient and less time-consuming.
okay pump
squats
hack squats
power squats
front squats
in my opinion it doesnt matter at all which one you choose..... any of them are as effective as anyother one...
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okay pump
squats
hack squats
power squats
front squats
in my opinion it doesnt matter at all which one you choose..... any of them are as effective as anyother one...
No offense but what criteria should be used to believe what you say-you don't explain why one thing is the same as the next thing, you use volume that most find excessive, and are not physically imposing in terms of leg development at least not yet so why would someone take your opinion seriously?
My legs were always my strongest area; i had pro football/top BB calibre legs by age 20. The type of squats i did mattered big-time to me and to the other BBs i trained with. Conversely, there were some leg exercises i did then that i think were a waste of time.
Besides which, using different types of squats reduced the differences; a bigger difference is seen between very different types of exercises.
The more you train and gain experience, the more you realize the subtle nuance even between exercises that appear similar.
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No offense but what criteria should be used to believe what you say-
i had pro football/top BB calibre legs by age 20.
LOL, epic pot calling kettle.......... ;D
Unless I missed your pic pumpster ???
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LOL, epic pot calling kettle.......... ;D
Unless I missed your pic pumpster ???
lol dude I already mentioned on one of your threads weeks ago that i planted that pic almost two years ago. It's worked beautifully; that's rocketdweeb from the truce thread. ;D
I haven't done any serious leg work since the early 80s; the size has remained the same just from cardio.
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No offense but what criteria should be used to believe what you say-you don't explain why one thing is the same as the next thing, you use volume that most find excessive, and are not physically imposing in terms of leg development at least not yet so why would someone take your opinion seriously?
My legs were always my strongest area; i had pro football/top BB calibre legs by age 20. The type of squats i did mattered big-time to me and to the other BBs i trained with. Conversely, there were some leg exercises i did then that i think were a waste of time.
Besides which, using different types of squats reduced the differences; a bigger difference is seen between very different types of exercises.
The more you train and gain experience, the more you realize the subtle nuance even between exercises that appear similar.
agree....
different excercise work differently for different people... because people have different proportions....
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lol dude I already mentioned on one of your threads weeks ago that i planted that pic almost two years ago. It's worked beautifully; that's rocketdweeb from the truce thread. ;D
I haven't done any serious leg work since the early 80s; the size has remained the same just from cardio.
That's what I'm saying, you're claiming "top BB calibre legs", but you've offered no proof. ;)
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That's what I'm saying, you're claiming "top BB calibre legs", but you've offered no proof. ;)
I'm saying that with quiet confidence, after years of being on here. I don't have to prove anything. Anyone who wants to see proof in person can pm me.
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I'm saying that with quiet confidence, after years of being on here. I don't have to prove anything. Anyone who wants to see proof in person can pm me.
pumpster you cant dismiss what i wrote (about hacks, squats, front squats, power suqtas all being equal) by saying you have great legs , better than mine, when you don know what my leg looks like and you have never shown anyone what yoru legs look like.
i already mentioned that yes some exercises do stress different areas of a certain muscle. for example, incline bench, flat bench, decline bench, dumbell flies. all stress a bit different areas of the pec. but any exercise is just as productive as anyother exercise, in terms of stimulating growth... your msucle has no idea whther its doing a sqaut, a hack squat, a front squat...al it knows is it is being told to contract and push a whole lot of weight. (it doesnt know how much weight its pushing either, but thats a different argument entirely)
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pumpster you cant dismiss what i wrote (about hacks, squats, front squats, power suqtas all being equal) by saying you have great legs , better than mine, when you don know what my leg looks like and you have never shown anyone what yoru legs look like.
i already mentioned that yes some exercises do stress different areas of a certain muscle. for example, incline bench, flat bench, decline bench, dumbell flies. all stress a bit different areas of the pec. but any exercise is just as productive as anyother exercise, in terms of stimulating growth... your msucle has no idea whther its doing a sqaut, a hack squat, a front squat...al it knows is it is being told to contract and push a whole lot of weight. (it doesnt know how much weight its pushing either, but thats a different argument entirely)
I have naturally better legs than most, could make them bigger but there's no point.
Using those squats as an example is a little unfair, because some exercises are very different from one another. A better example would be to compare a regular squat to a leg extension. Another might be to compare a lying extension to a seated one-similar but not the same, and one or the other could cause elbows problems that the other wouldn't becuase of that difference.
Even with squats everyone's got preferences that make one better than another. Add that to the fact that there are some differences in where they hit including how they effect joints so there are still reasons to do one over another. I've never cared for front squats.
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I have naturally better legs than most, could make them bigger but there's no point.
Using those squats as an example is a little unfair, because some exercises are very different from one another. A better example would be to compare a regular squat to a leg extension. Another might be to compare a lying extension to a seated one-similar but not the same, and one or the other could cause elbows problems that the other wouldn't becuase of that difference.
Even with squats everyone's got preferences that make one better than another. Add that to the fact that there are some differences in where they hit including how they effect joints so there are still reasons to do one over another. I've never cared for front squats.
i agree with all this
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i always thought pushdowns were ok depending on the handle being used whats your take on rope pushdowns?
For the standard pushdown movement I think they're more effective because of the greater freedom of motion, doing them wide-grip for example. It gets in to hit the medial and lateral heads more effectively.
Also good to use the rope attachment for any kind of cable triceps extension.
The more effective version of pushdowns using a bar is to keep the elbows wide with a narrow or medium grip.