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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Fury on April 03, 2009, 03:12:07 PM
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ISLAMABAD – Pakistani authorities ordered inquiries Friday into a video showing the public flogging of a screaming woman in a northwestern valley where officials have yielded to Taliban demands for Islamic law.
A militant spokesman defended the punishment, fueling a furor that cast more doubt on a creaking peace deal in the Swat valley that U.S. officials fear has created another haven for allies of al-Qaida.
Officials vowed to introduce impose Islamic law, or Shariah, in Swat in February to halt 18 months of terror and bloody fighting between militants and security forces that killed hundreds of people.
Shariah has not yet formally been introduced and provincial officials say that, in any case, they would not condone such whippings or the harsh brand of Islamic law practiced under Afghanistan's former Taliban rule. But the video provided a reminder of how hardliners in control of much of valley intrepret Islamic strictures.
Though it was unclear when and where the video was shot, it was believed to have been taken with a mobile phone in the Swat valley. It was broadcast widely Friday on Dunya TV and other Pakistani television stations.
The embattled government of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province struck the deal with a hardline cleric who helped secure a cease-fire. However, President Asif Ali Zardari's office says he won't sign the bill introducing Islamic law there unless he is satisfied that peace has been restored — a prospect that seemed to recede Friday after a sharp outcry by rights groups.
The embattled government of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province struck the deal with a hardline cleric who helped secure a cease-fire. However, President Asif Ali Zardari's office says he won't sign the bill introducing Islamic law there unless he is satisfied that peace has been restored — a prospect that seemed to recede Friday after a sharp outcry by rights groups.
"It is not a peace accord in Swat, instead it is a surrender by the government of Pakistan," said Asma Jehangir, head of Pakistan's main human rights organization. The flogging "is against all the women of Pakistan."
Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said the government remained committed to reconciliation in Swat but warned that it would restart the military operation if its authority was challenged.
The two-minute video, widely aired on local television Friday, shows the woman face down on the ground with two men holding her arms and feet. Her all-enveloping burqa has been hitched up to expose a pair of pink trousers.
A third man in a black turban with a long beard whips her backside more than a dozen times, causing her to scream repeatedly and shout "Stop it, stop it! It is painful!" A crowd of men watches silently in the background.
It was unclear who ordered the lashing and when it occurred.
Muslim Khan, spokesman for the Swat Taliban, said the militants publicly flogged a woman nine months ago over allegations that she had an illicit relationship with her father-in-law, but he was not sure if the video showed that incident.
He defended the punishment, although he said it should not have been done in public and should have been carried out by a boy who had not yet reached puberty.
Provincial government spokesman Mian Iftikhar Hussein said the incident occurred Jan. 3 — before the peace agreement was signed. Some regional officials and the Taliban spokesman suggested the release of the video was an attempt to sabotage the agreement.
"The Shariah regulation in no way is going to allow this thing to happen at all," provincial Law Minister Arshad Abdullah said. "Let's not judge our deal by this video."
A spokesman for Zardari, the widower of slain former leader and women's rights torch bearer Benazir Bhutto, described the flogging as "barbarism" that should not be tolerated.
spokesman Farhatullah Babar said Zardari had ordered authorities to apprehend those responsible — a near-impossible task in a zone from which the police and moderate tribal leaders have fled in fear.
Pakistan's recently restored chief justice also opened an inquiry, saying the case represented "a serious violation" of the law and fundamental rights.
Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry, who had been removed by former military ruler Pervez Musharraf in part for pursuing human rights cases, ordered security officials to produce the victim in the Supreme Court in time for a hearing on April 6.
U.S. officials have criticized Pakistan for striking a series of usually short-lived peace deals with militants, arguing that they give extremists time to regroup and focus on launching cross-border attacks against U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan.
They have expressed concern about the accord in Swat, but are also pressing Pakistan's army to switch its focus to al-Qaida strongholds closer to the Afghan border.
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090403/capt.e7108722db334003baf963ca82a99d6f.pakistan_beating_video_ny120.jpg?x=213&y=157&xc=1&yc=1&wc=408&hc=301&q=85&sig=Wkz4YKTStrkN5QZb12BTAg--)
So this threatens the peace accord? Not the bombings or attacks on police stations, eh?
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They've lived that way for generations, why pretend to care now?
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They've lived that way for generations, why pretend to care now?
Exactly. None of our business and we are never going to change them. We should work on the problems at home and let them rot in their medievalism.
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(http://www.realwildchurch.org/images2/atomic.jpg)
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Slapper your such a fucking moron. Everytime some insane muslim does something violent or inhumane you throw christianity into the mix. You are either in complete denial, or were molested by a priest when you were a kid- There's no other plausible reason why you go out of your way to bash christianity every chance you get.
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Slapper your such a fucking moron. Everytime some insane Muslim does something violent or inhumane [...]
There you go, you said it: "Insane". It's the "Muslim" I have a problem with. And I have a problem with it because every religion, culture, country, et cetera, has "insane" individuals/groups. The difference is some people here present ONLY the violent acts perpetrated by Muslims because they have some other motive to present all these people (99.9999999% happen to want good for the rest of the world, talk to them if you do not believe me) in a bad light.
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There you go, you said it: "Insane". It's the "Muslim" I have a problem with. And I have a problem with it because every religion, culture, country, et cetera, has "insane" individuals/groups. The difference is some people here present ONLY the violent acts perpetrated by Muslims because they have some other motive to present all these people (99.9999999% happen to want good for the rest of the world, talk to them if you do not believe me) in a bad light.
great post.
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Shocking that the apologists flock to this thread! How amusing! :D
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There you go, you said it: "Insane". It's the "Muslim" I have a problem with. And I have a problem with it because every religion, culture, country, et cetera, has "insane" individuals/groups. The difference is some people here present ONLY the violent acts perpetrated by Muslims because they have some other motive to present all these people (99.9999999% happen to want good for the rest of the world, talk to them if you do not believe me) in a bad light.
I have...more then u I'd imagine, and most can't read or write and are easily swayed by the BS. American muslims don't really count. Look at the polls world wide, how many sypathize with the shitbags. Slapper why don't u go spend some time in a real muslim country and see how they feel about u.
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There you go, you said it: "Insane". It's the "Muslim" I have a problem with. And I have a problem with it because every religion, culture, country, et cetera, has "insane" individuals/groups. The difference is some people here present ONLY the violent acts perpetrated by Muslims because they have some other motive to present all these people (99.9999999% happen to want good for the rest of the world, talk to them if you do not believe me) in a bad light.
Oh, cut the sob story bullshit. You liken the actions of a multitude of a small number of different demographics to the greater group.
And, what exactly, have Muslims contributed or done good lately? Hate to break it to you, but no Muslim living under islamic influence has ever won a Nobel Prize. Never. And only five or so who weren't living in Muslims countries have won it. Yes, they're really contributing to making societal gains. Hell, in roughly 50 years, Pakistani scientists have managed to get just eight patents registered internationally.
Silly apologists.
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BZ....give em credit. They did develop a nuke and have actively shopped that tech to other shitbags around the world. Thank u Pakistan.
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BZ....give em credit. They did develop a nuke and have actively shopped that tech to other shitbags around the world. Thank u Pakistan.
Yeah. Most believe the Pakistani scientists are good at reverse engineering things. They excel at that. Inventing new things on their own? Not so much, as evidenced by the eight international patents they've received in 50 years.
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Shocking that the apologists flock to this thread! How amusing! :D
Who's apologising? No doubt Islam is a barbaric religion stuck in the 12th century. But that shit has been going on for a long time and pretending to care is just that, pretense. I dislike all religion but there is so much that needs to be done domestically that this stuff is just irrelevant to the average American.
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Who's apologising? No doubt Islam is a barbaric religion stuck in the 12th century. But that shit has been going on for a long time and pretending to care is just that, pretense. I dislike all religion but there is so much that needs to be done domestically that this stuff is just irrelevant to the average American.
It's not irrelevant in the least. This is a major issue in Pakistan right now and is threatening that pseudo-cease fire they established with the Taliban militants in the Swat region. Yes, very irrelevant. ::)
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Who's apologising? No doubt Islam is a barbaric religion stuck in the 12th century. But that shit has been going on for a long time and pretending to care is just that, pretense. I dislike all religion but there is so much that needs to be done domestically that this stuff is just irrelevant to the average American.
Ur not even in the States, how do u know what the average American cares about. Sticking ur head in the sand won';t make em go away either.
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Ur not even in the States, how do u know what the average American cares about. Sticking ur head in the sand won';t make em go away either.
I have friends in the USA. It is still my country.
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See u couldn't even say "my country".
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See u couldn't even say "my country".
Fair enough. ;D
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OK- So what the fuck does Jesus have to do with this thread? Was a christian flogging a woman in public?
The person doing the flogging was a MUSLIM. Are you disputing that? What is your point exactly? This thread shows a video of a MUSLIM flogging another MUSLIM.
Your argument is not only unsound, but irrelevant to this topic. Tell you what, you can post a christian bashing thread and put up all the videos you can find of christians flogging other people for similar infractions ( good luck on that) and then you're argument will have some teeth. Otherwise stop hijacking this thread into a discussion that has nothing to do with the topic.
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It's not irrelevant in the least. This is a major issue in Pakistan right now and is threatening that pseudo-cease fire they established with the Taliban militants in the Swat region. Yes, very irrelevant. ::)
Relevant to what!?
All fundamentalist religions are a danger, IMO.
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Relevant to what!?
All fundamentalist religions are a danger, IMO.
Let's see, a nuclear armed country is having a massive insurgency and is wavering back and forth near collapse. Of course it's relevant.
Fucking apologists. You'll be the first ones crying for blood when your family gets blown up in a terrorist attack, too.
Hey Doc, I have to say that I'm SHOCKED that you're trying to bring all religions into a thread about Muslims flogging a woman. Haven't seen that happen before.
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They've lived that way for generations, why pretend to care now?
bingo!
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Let's see, a nuclear armed country is having a massive insurgency and is wavering back and forth near collapse. Of course it's relevant.
Fucking apologists. You'll be the first ones crying for blood when your family gets blown up in a terrorist attack, too.
Hey Doc, I have to say that I'm SHOCKED that you're trying to bring all religions into a thread about Muslims flogging a woman. Haven't seen that happen before.
What is the solution then?
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Let's see, a nuclear armed country is having a massive insurgency and is wavering back and forth near collapse. Of course it's relevant.
Fucking apologists. You'll be the first ones crying for blood when your family gets blown up in a terrorist attack, too.
Hey Doc, I have to say that I'm SHOCKED that you're trying to bring all religions into a thread about Muslims flogging a woman. Haven't seen that happen before.
I said all fundamentalist religions and stand by the opinion that they are equally dangerous.
Read the bible, it allows for wives to be chastised.
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I said all fundamentalist religions and stand by the opinion that they are equally dangerous.
Read the bible, it allows for wives to be chastised.
You speak the truth man of NY...
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I said all fundamentalist religions and stand by the opinion that they are equally dangerous.
Read the bible, it allows for wives to be chastised.
Again, this isn't a thread about all religions. It's a thread about Muslims flogging what now appears to be a 17 year old woman. If you want to go rant and rave and play mr. apologist for the muslims, go do it on the religious board. This is not a thread about any of the other religions. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Again, this isn't a thread about all religions. It's a thread about Muslims flogging what now appears to be a 17 year old woman. If you want to go rant and rave and play mr. apologist for the muslims, go do it on the religious board. This is not a thread about any of the other religions. Why is that so hard to understand?
It could just as easily be any fundamentalist country/religion doing the same thing. Peace's true enemy is fundamentalism, not Muslims.
I realize you really think calling someone an 'apologist' sounds/reads smart but you're wrong. It just makes it look like you don't have a logical argument.
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Really this thread is a microcosm of the disconnect between reality and fantasy that liberals live in. Show me one place on planet earth where Christians beat their wives and use the bible as an excuse-- Better yet show me any religion besides Islam which allows it by law in certain counties--
After your done doing that, find me a unicorn, the lochness monster and the fountain of youth. You people are so fucking stupid it makes my hair hurt. How long did it take you to become brainwashed into such pussy apologists without the testicular fortitude or honesty to call a spade a spade?
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It could just as easily be any fundamentalist country/religion doing the same thing. Peace's true enemy is fundamentalism, not Muslims.
I realize you really think calling someone an 'apologist' sounds/reads smart but you're wrong. It just makes it look like you don't have a logical argument.
WHAT OTHER RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST COUNTRIES EXIST IN THE WORLD TODAY BESIDES ISLAMIC ONES!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
THANK YOU FOR PROVING THE VERY ESSENCE OF THIS THREAD AND THE STUPIDITY OF YOUR POSITION!!!!!
SAMSON TAUGHT ME HOW TO TYPE LIKE THIS WHEN I WANT TO GET MY POINT ACROSS!!!!
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WHAT OTHER RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST COUNTRIES EXIST IN THE WORLD TODAY BESIDES ISLAMIC ONES!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
THANK YOU FOR PROVING THE VERY ESSENCE OF THIS THREAD AND THE STUPIDITY OF YOUR POSITION!!!!!
SAMSON TAUGHT ME HOW TO TYPE LIKE THIS WHEN I WANT TO GET MY POINT ACROSS!!!!
His point as well as mine was that this has been going on for a LONG time and we never cared before, so why do we pretend to now? Aren't there enough domestic problems in the US to worry about without worrying about what is going on in some third world shithole?
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Dude you must really be incapable of having a serious discussion about anything because your answer is always- "Well, yeah its bad, but it happened before, so now who cares?"
You say the same shit when Obama gets criticized by saying- "Bush did it so who cares"
Do you feel the same way about the wall street rip off's also? "The banks have always ripped people off in the past, no one did anything, so who cares?"
Grow up. Just because something is bad and people have done nothing about it before doesn't mean no one should do something about it now. You're obviously not an American.
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Dude you must really be incapable of having a serious discussion about anything because your answer is always- "Well, yeah its bad, but it happened before, so now who cares?"
You say the same shit when Obama gets criticized by saying- "Bush did it so who cares"
Do you feel the same way about the wall street rip off's also? "The banks have always ripped people off in the past, no one did anything, so who cares?"
Grow up. Just because something is bad and people have done nothing about it before doesn't mean no one should do something about it now. You're obviously not an American.
Sure it's bad but as a non-interventionist I don't think it is the obligation of the US government to spend over a trillion tax dollars on maintaining an overseas empire. Very few Americans profit, in any sense from it. You can only improve yourself and that applies to nation states as well.
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WHAT OTHER RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST COUNTRIES EXIST IN THE WORLD TODAY BESIDES ISLAMIC ONES!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
THANK YOU FOR PROVING THE VERY ESSENCE OF THIS THREAD AND THE STUPIDITY OF YOUR POSITION!!!!!
SAMSON TAUGHT ME HOW TO TYPE LIKE THIS WHEN I WANT TO GET MY POINT ACROSS!!!!
LOL!!
If our own whackos were given free reign things would be just as bad here, especially since they would be interpreting the bible as the direct word of God. Also, much of our mid east foreign policy is based upon religion. One of the contributing factors to this mess is Americans believing Jesus is coming back to Jerusalem and Zionists insisting upon colonizing every square inch of the 'promised land'.
Not being a Jew, Muslim or Neocon, they could all die and it wouldn't change my life one bit. It would save the US billions in wasted money, however.
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LOL!!
If our own whackos were given free reign things would be just as bad here, especially since they would be interpreting the bible as the direct word of God. Also, much of our mid east foreign policy is based upon religion. One of the contributing factors to this mess is Americans believing Jesus is coming back to Jerusalem and Zionists insisting upon colonizing every square inch of the 'promised land'.
Not being a Jew, Muslim or Neocon, they could all die and it wouldn't change my life one bit. It would save the US billions in wasted money, however.
QFT...
The mere maintainance of our empire costs over 1 trillion a year. Imagine if it were saved or even spent at home...
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What is the solution then?
go back in time to stop some browne guy stealing bitchfury's girl! ;D
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go back in time to stop some browne guy stealing bitchfury's girl! ;D
If I could go back in time and assassinate Mo-Ham-Head, I would...
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It could just as easily be any fundamentalist country/religion doing the same thing. Peace's true enemy is fundamentalism, not Muslims.
I realize you really think calling someone an 'apologist' sounds/reads smart but you're wrong. It just makes it look like you don't have a logical argument.
Yes but its not...u guys are so quick to lump in christians and jews...news flash...Christians aren't blowing up school kids in pizza joints or burning people with acid. its muslims.....stop apologizing for shitbags.
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Yes but its not...u guys are so quick to lump in christians and jews...news flash...Christians aren't blowing up school kids in pizza joints or burning people with acid. its muslims.....stop apologizing for shitbags.
Who is apologizing for shitbags?
Just pointing out that it's all relative. Also, buying oil doesn't give us the right to impose/export our fake morality on/to other countries.
No one gives a shit about those people and no one ever will. If we had ever cared at any point things would have been different a long time ago and now it's too late.
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Watch your mouth >:( Have you fogotten?
BWhahahahaha :D ;D
Still waiting for us to bomb the Sauds.
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don't mention the saudis to BF, it'll crosswire his logic and he'll overheat. we wouldn't want to lose such a valuable contributer ;D
He's an oil dependency apologist. :)
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Watch your mouth >:( Have you fogotten?
BWhahahahaha :D ;D
That piece of Alabama white trash certainly DID not have neighbors inside the towers.
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If I could go back in time and assassinate Mo-Ham-Head, I would...
Ha ha, this is the single most derogatory remark you could possibly ever make about muhammad! ;D
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If I could go back in time and assassinate Mo-Ham-Head, I would...
Good call, but don't stop there. ;D
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Ha ha, this is the single most derogatory remark you could possibly ever make about muhammad! ;D
I mean it and as an inveterate foe of all irrational religion, I am clearly opposed to Islam.
But trying to combat Islam, where it is dominant and has been for centuries is a losing battle and not worth fighting; they should be left to their squalour and mediaevalism, if they want to live in the 12th century, by all means let them and the civilised world can work on itself and move on. Most importantly, change comes from within, meaning that if there is change it won't come from the West but from the crackpot nations of Islam themselves.
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Good call, but don't stop there. ;D
Read the post below. Pretending that Islam is anything other than primitive, violent bullshit on a stick is disingenious, equally so is pretending we can effect 'change' in that part of the world; let's mind our own business.
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Read the post below. Pretending that Islam is anything other than primitive, violent bullshit on a stick is disingenious, equally so is pretending we can effect 'change' in that part of the world; let's mind our own business.
no, I mean don't stop with your time traveling religious assassinations ;) You can be like Reese, sent back to protect wisdom from the terminators(religion machines) :D
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Read the post below. Pretending that Islam is anything other than primitive, violent bullshit on a stick is disingenious, equally so is pretending we can effect 'change' in that part of the world; let's mind our own business.
It's all primitive.
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It's all primitive.
Sure. Rush is primitive as well.
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Sure. Rush is primitive as well.
They haven't had a hit in years. No one cares about that stupid Canadian band anymore.
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They haven't had a hit in years. No one cares about that stupid Canadian band anymore.
;D
I was referring to the republican party's 'head'...
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;D
I was referring to the republican party's 'head'...
He's just an entertainer and shouldn't be held accountable for the party's state or nitwits being stupid enough to take him seriously.
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It could just as easily be any fundamentalist country/religion doing the same thing. Peace's true enemy is fundamentalism, not Muslims.
I realize you really think calling someone an 'apologist' sounds/reads smart but you're wrong. It just makes it look like you don't have a logical argument.
I know you have this thing for derailing every thread about Islam into an argument encompassing all religions, and it looks retarded. You can't discuss Islam without likening it to everything else. It's impossible for you. Which I find amusing because you can go make your own threads about it without derailing all of mine.
This thread has fuck all to do with Christianity and your desire to liken your islamic buddies to it. It has to do with Pakistan ceding territory to militants that are trying to topple the country.
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"The religion of peace strikes again"
pointing out hypocrisy isn't off topic.
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"The religion of peace strikes again"
pointing out hypocrisy isn't off topic.
Hypocrisy? You're trying too hard. The followers of Islam call it the religion of peace. Just calling it what they do.
Turning this thread into another sounding board for his pro-muslim, anti-christianity crusade is off topic. This thread has nothing to do with christianity.
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You must be talking about the leading voices of that message in America...
LOL...
"Islam is a peaceful religion. Islam is a religion that respects innocent human life."--Condi Rice
In fact, the first time I ever heard the saying, it came from Bush.
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You must be talking about the leading voices of that message in America...
LOL...
"Islam is a peaceful religion. Islam is a religion that respects innocent human life."--Condi Rice
In fact, the first time I ever heard the saying, it came from Bush.
What's the point of this? Condi and Bush are tools, and so is Obama (by allowing law allowing husbands to rape their wives [note plural] in Afghanistan).
Islam isn't nor can ever been a peaceful religion.
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What's the point of this? Condi and Bush are tools, and so is Obama (by allowing law allowing husbands to rape their wives [note plural] in Afghanistan).
Islam isn't nor can ever been a peaceful religion.
I'm just saying, the main conduit for the message in America and the UK has been these guys, Blair too. He straight up said they were a religion of peace. Now nobody here even says that stuff and we get labled apologists? hahahaha... owned. Have I ever said it's a religion of peace? who here has said that? Decide? can you guys quote anybody who you've labeled an apologist for islam?
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I know you have this thing for derailing every thread about Islam into an argument encompassing all religions, and it looks retarded. You can't discuss Islam without likening it to everything else. It's impossible for you. Which I find amusing because you can go make your own threads about it without derailing all of mine.
This thread has fuck all to do with Christianity and your desire to liken your islamic buddies to it. It has to do with Pakistan ceding territory to militants that are trying to topple the country.
There's very little difference between Islam and any other religion.
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Ok dude....maybe u ought to go back to school.
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There's very little difference between Islam and any other religion.
disagree with that. I'm sure you see the difference between Islam and say buddhism. The worst religions, ones that have killed the most in the name of their religion all seem to have been born out of the middle east.
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There's very little difference between Islam and any other religion.
Well, you're other opinions carry little weight if you honestly believe this to be true. Islam is like no other.
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Well, you're other opinions carry little weight if you honestly believe this to be true. Islam is like no other.
your opinion is sorrier if you think Islam stands above the rest in the worst in the world category. It's got company in that category.
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your opinion is sorrier if you think Islam stands above the rest in the worst in the world category. It's got company in that category.
Well if you're talking about what the adherents of said religion have done then your statement is true.
If you look at the fundamentals of the religion you statement is mostly false.
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Well if you're talking about what the adherents of said religion have done then your statement is true.
If you look at the fundamentals of the religion you statement is mostly false.
I never make false statements :)
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I never make false statements :)
OK then, so show me how Christianity and islam are ideologically equal.
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OK then, so show me how Christianity and islam are ideologically equal.
I can't demonstrate they are "ideologically equal" I never said that. ::)
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I can't demonstrate they are "ideologically equal" I never said that. ::)
So on what basis does islam have "company"? Simply because you believe adherents of Christianity may have caused as much destruction as adherents of islam? So in reality you're making a comparison to two sets of adherents, not the actual religion.
To make a sweeping statement over atrocities caused by adherents X you need to take into consideration much more complex social / economical variables, like for example Europe's control of World affairs (due to economic power) during the Spanish inquisitions etc.
Of course all Abrahamic religions are open to extremism, but that doesn't make the underlying religion equal.