Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: stuntmovie on April 14, 2009, 10:34:38 AM
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
Guy on the left is Bob Jodkewitz (sp).
-
Awesome thread thx for sharing.
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
Is the guy on the right phil hernon? If so, I think he is in NY or somewhere on the east coast.
-
Yea, Drug! You are entirely correct on Phil. He is on the east coast and if you have any questions for good old Phil, I'll be glad to pass them on the next time I call him.
Welcome, Cast. Glad to see someone enjoy this stuff.
Yea, Coach. That's Bob! Good friend! Great guy!
But you have not answered the entire question. Thanks for trying.
Is this photo familiar to anyone? Gotta be a real old timer to get this one correctly.
-
Yea, Drug! You are entirely correct on Phil. He is on the east coast and if you have any questions for good old Phil, I'll be glad to pass them on the next time I call him.
Welcome, Cast. Glad to see someone enjoy this stuff.
Yea, Coach. That's Bob! Good friend! Great guy!
But you have not answered the entire question. Thanks for trying.
Is this photo familiar to anyone? Gotta be a real old timer to get this one correctly.
Let him know a buddy of mine Scott Heaton says hello. He trained with Phil at the old Powerhouse on University near ASU a long time ago.
-
OK, I'll do that, Drug! More than likely within the week. Can you tell us what year that was?
________________________ ____________
Any old time bodybuilder (and some of you young guys too) have purchased a lemon-ade or two at this well-known shack.
Where's it exactly located and what kind of music do you usually hear while standing in line waiting to be served? (Trick question! - sort of.)
-
Bob entered lots of contests and was usually ripped, then disappeared. We know what happenned to Phil...interesting though.
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
epic cry for attention. why not just email them to yourself so if you change your mindc about deleting them you'll still have a copy in your inbox?
-
Thought Bob was in Hawaii running a gym. That was years ago though.
-
Hey stunt. I don't want to threadjack, here, but if you have any pics of the old(er) Hollywood days, I'll bet there is a board here you can put them on. I'd sure like to see some of those.
-
-
You start some of the best pic and history threads on here IMO.
Post away!
8)
-
hey stunt,if you have any of Barbarian David Paul,how about putting those ones up,,ones ya think that maybe werent in the mags...thanx man
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
can you put them up on google temporarily for some of us to copy... :D...i wouldnt leave them there though, cant understand why people give away their pictures for free to strangers.
-
Is this photo familiar to anyone? Gotta be a real old timer to get this one correctly.
Caliber Fitness Headquarters ???
-
The chess/checkers tables in Santa Monica, right in front of the original muscle beach sign. The home of the fitness revolution. The Hot Dog on a Stick stand also in front of the original muscle beach. It is right in front of the volleyball courts, and just south of the benches where some of the original old time muscle beach crew still come to sit at and enjoy each others company. Great photos, thanks for sharing. This is the home of the original seed.
-
Yea, Drug! You are entirely correct on Phil. He is on the east coast and if you have any questions for good old Phil, I'll be glad to pass them on the next time I call him.
Welcome, Cast. Glad to see someone enjoy this stuff.
Yea, Coach. That's Bob! Good friend! Great guy!
But you have not answered the entire question. Thanks for trying.
Is this photo familiar to anyone? Gotta be a real old timer to get this one correctly.
Is that the muscle boarding house reeves and george efferman etc lived at?
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
And you are?
-
I'm in the process of deleting some old photos from my hard drive and thought that some of you GetBiggers may be interested in some of these shots.
If you are at all interested, I'll be glad to post more before I get rid of them forever. At least I'll be able to find them again if Ron keeps them in the Get Big archives.
If one GetBigger can ID the majority of them and how they pertain to California bodybuilding history , I'll gladly send a prize DVD or two.
First picture:
Name each of them and the current state in which they reside.
Stunt got any pics of the Mummy black guy dressed all in white on skates playing Hendricks on his guitar.... that's the music you'd here at the hot dog stand.
-
epic cry for attention. why not just email them to yourself so if you change your mindc about deleting them you'll still have a copy in your inbox?
Seriousy you need to stfu and go away - why the fuck are you even here? You are clearly not a BB fan at all.
-
Stunt got any pics of the Mummy black guy dressed all in white on skates playing Hendricks on his guitar.... that's the music you'd here at the hot dog stand.
[/quote]
I saw him when i visited Venice Beach in 1990,then when i came home i saw him in a film, he had a couple of lines in a film about a female assassin,can`t remember what it was called.Did you ever see the little black guy with no legs or arms who was sat on the floor rocking side to side to music.
-
epic cry for attention. why not just email them to yourself so if you change your mindc about deleting them you'll still have a copy in your inbox?
Settle down gimmick
-
OK, I'll do that, Drug! More than likely within the week. Can you tell us what year that was?
________________________ ____________
Any old time bodybuilder (and some of you young guys too) have purchased a lemon-ade or two at this well-known shack.
Where's it exactly located and what kind of music do you usually hear while standing in line waiting to be served? (Trick question! - sort of.)
Its in santa monica where the Original pit was. As far as music, I don't know, a bumb playin a guitar?
-
Ronrico, Damn! You know that area well! That apartment building is one of the few original buildings left standing along that Santa Monica beachwalk. Back in the early 60's we had the opportunity to buy one of the few beachfront homes about 50 yards or so south of that red hot dog stand. It was on the market for about $32,000 if I recall correctly. It's gone now and in it's place is a avery modern and very expensive condo complex.
Ronrico, how many times have you "fine dined" at Big Dean's? Are you knowledgeable enough to describe that place and give some detailed info? I've been in there a number of times for a beer and a burger and always took a few moments to look at the old photos on the walls but I never did get the full account of the history of Big Dean's. I have heard that it was originally owned by one of the old time Muscle Beach regulars. Who was "Dean" anyway? A wrestler?
And speaking of 'old time regulars', I was at Dean's a couple of years ago when those original old timers were all sitting on one of the beach benches getting interviewed for some major network TV show. I had a chance to talk briefly with a few of them about the old days and one of the guys had his scrap-book filled with hundreds of photos he had taken during the peak of Muscle Beach's popularity .... Young Reeves, and Eifferman, and Dillinger, etc. and dozens of circus performers who came down there when out of work to practice on a small piece of lawn just south of the pier and adjacent to the beach-walk. Right where the lifeguard headquarters is presently situated - it appeared.
Those photos have been posted here somewhere and I'll do my best to find them once again and repost them for you late GetBiggers. Maybe Ron can lend a hand if there is any interest.
Right now most of those old time photos are on a disk in one of my various abodes in Tahoe, Simi Valley, Las Vegas, or the SF Bay Area. (I move around a lot.)
Chainsaw! Damn! What a name?!!! Why "Chainsaw"? Yes, you are correct about the Hot Dog stand location but the "music" should be recalled even more so. It was the music from the Merry Go Round a few yards NW of the stand. Here's one for ya... Name the movie that that Merry Go Round was featured in. The principal character in that movie had his office in the back.
Crown/Max, here's the "mummy" picture you requested. You must have been a little kid when you saw him because my three year old niece calls him "the Mummy" too. I ran into him a couple of weeks back and he wanted to sell me a T-shirt but I politely declined. Another popular and upcoming Venice Beach character is Tree Man (Lionel) who stands ten feet tall. My favorite is the "Guido" character who impersonates passer-byers without them being aware of it.
I never did see the little black guy in Venice, but I think I did see him in Las Vegas once. Actually he was getting picked up for a ride home in a big limo.
Many years ago the original So Cal "characters" (bodybuilders and circus performers) hung out at Muscle Beach in Santa Monica, but the real characters of the world have grown and expanded and can now be found just about anyplace in Southern California ..... especially on sunny Saturdays and sunny Sundays in Venice Beach while the bodybuilder and circus characters have moved on to more expensive environments such as gyms and spas and European health farms. (Gotta tie this one in somehow.)
JWB, I don't know if Reeves or Eifferman ever stayed in that Muscle Beach building as pictured above, but I think you may be referring to "Muscle House" which I believe is documented somewhere here on the internet. I think that Pudgy Stockton was somehow connected with Muscle House but I forget those details. I was never able to get a Muscle House address so I never did manage to take a photo of the 'historical' location.
Drama... NOPE, it's not Caliber Fitness Headquarters.
NYCbull, No time at present to load these photos at any other site, but I'll be glad to send ya some via IM if and when I get some time to do so. I'm traveling a lot at present on a hunt for great real estate buys. In fact, just this past hour we got back from a great tour up Lendero/Decker Canyon (that's Malibu, folks) and back down Malibu Canyon seeing some damn spectacular hill-top homes priced at $3,000,000 plus ..... waaaaayyy plus! Not for myself but I have family in the movie business who work too much to go house hunting on their own.
Sorry... off track... That last bit of info was for my good friend, Salt, who may find something he appreciates on here. Thanks for reading anyway, Salt!
-
Great thread so far stunt, more pics please ;D
-
Thanks, Will, but as I said earlier, most of the better shots are on a disk someplace. I gotta talk to Ron about the archives here!
This one is for you, Will ..... One more Venice Beach character .... Where were all these crazy people back in the 50's and the 60's? Did we all become "crazy" just recently? Did chlorine in the water have anything to do with it?
My brother recalls that back in them good old days these colorful characters were simply locked up in some far off mental institution and it took someone like Ronald Reagan to set them free. ANd they immediately packed up and headed down to Southern California with their principal headquarters at Venice Beach.
Photo courtesy of the internet someplace.
-
Getting a bit off track here but some of these pictures that follow will have to do until I find the others that are locked up someplace between here and there.....
Identify all three of these characters and win a prize .... (probably an old DVD collecting dust someplace) .... But it's damn near impossible to ID all three.
And if you guess all three, then you got to tell us the year it was taken (I took it so I know) for a even bigger prize (maybe a free meal for you and your GF/BF at Ellis Island). Order the prime rib! It's really good!
Anyone in this photo is ineligible to participate.
-
Great pics Stunt,i also remember a really fat black guy,must have been 400lbs,sat on the floor with a sign that said "I`m anorexic,give me money for food". ;D
And a shop that had a couple of fit babes stood in the window,with the windows open,modelling bikinis.every 30 seconds they would move from one pose to another.
-
Yea, Crown, I remember that place too. For a while there was a first class Be-Be shop selling expensive jackets and women's clothing. Then it was a radio broadcasting studio and at present it is vacant and available for lease. It would be a great spot for one of these bodybuilding internet radio "shows" during the summer months.
I don't recall that fat guy though. He must have been off to lunch while I was there.
Speaking about "being there", I used to run/walk that broad-walk from the Santa Monica Pier down through Pacific Ocean Park (POP) and on further south to the present day Venice Pit.
Back then you had a couple of options....
You could pay a dime and ride an electric trolly along that beach-walk or simply run the route along the high water mark. Back then that whole stretch of beach was just about deserted except for the area immediately surrounding the SM Pier and the former Venice Pier where bands like Lawrence Welk used to play.
All those residences and businesses along that beach-walk within the Venice neighborhood were either Jewish Synagogs or old apartments/homes for the newly arrived Jewish community from war ravaged Europe. And all those old folks would spend the day sitting on old wooden benches and speak in foreign languages and never have a problem with gangs of any type. To the best of my knowledge there were no gangs in West LA back then.
It was a darn peaceful neighborhood and the beach was seldom used except for a few surfers trying to catch some miserable two foot waves.
Here's a recent photo of how things were more like back then along that Venice beach-walk.....
-
Name this gym...... and the 3 streets/locations on/in which it was located since the early 60's.
If you really know this shit, name every owner/partner of this gym since the 60's. (You'll miss at least one!)
And further yet .... name the first female who was famous for being the 'first female' to train right along side the guys in this gym and the exact location of the gym when she first joined up.
You gotta know your shit to get this one completely right.
-
Stunt- I've eaten at Big Deans many times in the last few years. Cheeseburger and a 32 oz. beer. Some neet photos on the south wall that date anywhere from the 50's up through the 70's. Unfortunatly I don't know much of the history of the place, but judging from some of pipes and fittings in the restrooms, I guess it has been there a long time. Next time I go in there I will try to get background info. It sure looks like it was from a fun era.
-
Golds, Venice. Locations- Pacific ave. ,Second street, and now on Hampton. Owners- Joe Gold, r. Danteles, Ken Sprague, Pete Grymkowski, Tim Kimber, Ed Connors. No clue who owns it now though. First female- not sure, I do remember when Christine Zane started training at the first World Gym and Joe had to put in the changing room for her where the desk used to be.
-
Darn good again, Ronrico! I thought for sure that you'd overlook Sprague. I never had the opportunity to meet Danteles but I met everyone else including Joe Gold himself. I'll let you stew a bit about the 'first lady' question and if my memory serves me right - didn't one of the ladies use to shower with the guys before that second shower was installed at World's??
Yea! It was a great time to be living in So Cal, Ronrico. No traffic jams at all that I can remember. You even had a straight shot from Santa Monica to Disneyland through huge orange orchards and strawberry fields once you got a bit past the airport. And the Hollywood and Vine area wasn't the mess it seems to be today.
And all those So Cal cities that are continuous now had open country space between them. And Irvine was nothing more than a huge, undeveloped wilderness owned by people I used to have a couple of beers with on the weekends when and if I got to Laguna Beach. And Hobie Alter was a surf rat bumming beers after a hard day on the waves of Laguna Beach.
A lot of the LA guys who lifted seriously worked for the movie studios in some capacity or another and seemed to be able to hit the beach on any given sunny day. And a full day at Disneyland cost you less than $10.
And weekend contests and beauty pageants would draw only a handful of competitors, usually the same competitors who competed the previous week in the Embassy Auditorium or Muscle Beach or someplace in the Venice area or further on down the California coastline. I don't think that those events were even sanctioned by the AAU back then. And the IFBB and the NPC never even existed.
Here's a recent shot of Dean's for ya, Ron, just in case ya ever get 'losted'. There used to be a damn good chicken plate meal served out of a little window right next door (north side) of Dean's. I preferred it more than the burgers at Dean's, but I'd always stop in for a beer on any hot summer day.
Second photo is a sight you'd seldom see outside of the Venice area.
-
Just guessing on the females,- Lisa Lyon or Pillow?
-
Great thread as usual stunt......thanks bud!! :)
-
Thanks for reading it, Wes!
Yep, Ron! Lisa was the first lady in Gold's who trained as seriously as the guys. As far as I know, Lisa was the start of female bodybuilding and set the standards of the day even before Rachel Mc Lish and Cory Everson and the very beautiful black girl whose name I presently forget..... DAMN!! Help me out here, Ron!
WOW! I haven't thought of Pillow or even heard her name mentioned in one hell of a long time.
What is she up to now?
Here's a shot of Lisa off the net with Robert Mapplethorpet.
-
And Pillow can be seen on Youtube here ---------> &feature=related
-
the black girl,are ya talkin about carla dunlop,that last photo,that dude looked like mick jagger,lol...no Barbarian david paul pics stunt?
-
Yea, Carla! Damn! How the hell could I have forgotten Carla!
Thanks, DODGER!
I do have a few good pics of the Barbarian Bros but as I stated earlier, most of those old shots are on a disc in a trunk someplace. I hope to find those discs ASAP though.
I've known both the bros casually since they first came out to California but I still get them mixed up, but one day one of them and myself went around town in search of a VIP who he had some business with and during that process of VIP searching we stopped off in Venice Beach and while walking down the broad-walk David ( I think it was David) asked me if I'd be interested in hearing the new song he had recently written.
And I said, "Sure!" thinking that he'd give me a recording of this "new song he wrote", but instead he assumes the position of a rock star and starts singing this new song he wrote right there on that broad-walk on a sunny Sunday afternoon while hundreds of people were walking by.
And before he was done singing that new song there was at least a crowd of 120 people standing around and singing along and giving him a well deserved standing ovation when he was done.
He took a courtious bow and thanked everyone and handed me a disc of all the songs he had written and recorded and I ended up giving them to Keith because they are good friends and Keith likes that kind of music. Yea, the same Keith that is presently in limbo or whatever you call it while he is waiting to return to all his beloved GetBig fans.
Both the bros are major characters and great guys to hang with for short periods of time.
Yea, yea.... I'll try to find those pictures.
-
Man, makes me miss California. Born and raised, but I was wayyyyyyyy too young to know what the hell was going on. Plus I didn't get into BBing until 2000. By the way, how old are you Stunt, if you don't mind me asking. Sounds like a hell of a time, and by the way I was born in Santa Monica.
-
NYCbull, No time at present to load these photos at any other site, but I'll be glad to send ya some via IM if and when I get some time to do so.
thanks dude, .....my bf still has a house in Laguna Beach, he lived there when it was an artist commune...says it was amazing...I cant go downtown Laguna with him cause he just hates what has happened to the place, hates the people, I dont blame him, the people are low life rich assholes, furthest thing from artists.....but it sounds like Laguna Beach was an amazing place to live at one time...I would have loved to seen it in its hey day...All I can do is buy retro Laguna Beach T-shirts now :'(
-
You should show the old world gym that turned into a gymnastics studio,
Firehouse, omellate factory and Main st. Also Rio tan, which has been the
tanning of champions for 15plus years the Joe owns. The bodybuilder crossing sign
at the current golds.
-
Yea, Carla! Damn! How the hell could I have forgotten Carla!
Thanks, DODGER!
I do have a few good pics of the Barbarian Bros but as I stated earlier, most of those old shots are on a disc in a trunk someplace. I hope to find those discs ASAP though.
I've known both the bros casually since they first came out to California but I still get them mixed up, but one day one of them and myself went around town in search of a VIP who he had some business with and during that process of VIP searching we stopped off in Venice Beach and while walking down the broad-walk David ( I think it was David) asked me if I'd be interested in hearing the new song he had recently written.
And I said, "Sure!" thinking that he'd give me a recording of this "new song he wrote", but instead he assumes the position of a rock star and starts singing this new song he wrote right there on that broad-walk on a sunny Sunday afternoon while hundreds of people were walking by.
And before he was done singing that new song there was at least a crowd of 120 people standing around and singing along and giving him a well deserved standing ovation when he was done.
He took a courtious bow and thanked everyone and handed me a disc of all the songs he had written and recorded and I ended up giving them to Keith because they are good friends and Keith likes that kind of music. Yea, the same Keith that is presently in limbo or whatever you call it while he is waiting to return to all his beloved GetBig fans.
Both the bros are major characters and great guys to hang with for short periods of time.
Yea, yea.... I'll try to find those pictures.
Yea thanks stunt,,,yeah whenever you can find those pics of him,that would be great,,,yeah funny story to,,i think i remember reading that before from you but a little more of it this time,very kool.Hey these are fantastic stories to,love all the old photos of the area.Looking forward to seeing this thread go on and on..great stuff stunt..d
-
OK, I'll do that, Drug! More than likely within the week. Can you tell us what year that was?
Around 2002 - 2003. He said that Phil just got out tent city. He said to mention Scott and Terry (Scotts wife)
-
Getting a bit off track here but some of these pictures that follow will have to do until I find the others that are locked up someplace between here and there.....
Identify all three of these characters and win a prize .... (probably an old DVD collecting dust someplace) .... But it's damn near impossible to ID all three.
And if you guess all three, then you got to tell us the year it was taken (I took it so I know) for a even bigger prize (maybe a free meal for you and your GF/BF at Ellis Island). Order the prime rib! It's really good!
Anyone in this photo is ineligible to participate.
Im going to take a crack at it...Arnold, Draper and Kent K? 1969?
-
Here's one for ya... Name the movie that that Merry Go Round was featured in. The principal character in that movie had his office in the back.
Stunt. I gotta go with The Sting and Henry Gondorff's office. :)
/rip paul
-
DAMN! Some of you guys are pretty smart for GetBiggers!
First of all... Crap.... You are correct on Arnold and Draper but the third person is not Kent Kuhn (spelling?!!). That third person is Wayne, a good friend of mine who was in the Corps with us over at Kaneohe Bay. He won some good titles back then and trained with Arnold for a while. Now living in Las Vegas.
Dr. Chimps, you do know your movie stuff well .... Yep, that Merry Go Round was in "The Sting" as well as many other second rate/featured films of the 50's, but I think that the actual office scene was built in the studio, and what appears to be an office in the building is actually a storage space. How the hell did you recall the character's name ...... Henry Gondorff?
Drugfree ... Tent city?
Chainsaw, I do have recent photos of each of those places you mentioned.... The gymnastics studio (originally World Gym), Firehouse, Omellate factor(?) and Main St. and Rio Tan ( Is that the one on Lincoln?) and the Guido bodybuilder crossing sign. I got all of those someplace and I will or else reshoot each of them on my next trip back to LA. You failed to mention a couple of interesting places such as Zucky's, the original Gold's, the German's, Gold's on 2nd, Weider's first California office, etc. These are all in the archives someplace.
Dodge, gotta find them pictures either here in the archives or in one of my storage spots.
NYBull, I actually lived in Laguna Beach when it was at the height of its "Artist" period. Those were the days of the Laguna Greeter and Hobie Alter and the Sandpiper (USMC hangout), John Wayne visits, the new surfing craze, playing vollyball with the Ozzie and Harriet Nelson kids behind there home on the beach, and at the main beach area in town with the TV crew from "The Virginian", the Laguna Beach Art Festival, Dana Villa, and some damn good and mostly unbelievable times. I drove through there a couple of months ago and it still appeared to be a damn nice place to live. I think that a lot of the old money Hollywood movie retirees are living down there now.
-
love these threads mate
onya
-
Drugfree ... Tent city?
Yeah...Phil will know what it is. Did he remember Scott?
-
tent city is a prison somewhere isn't it? arizona?
-
Why would anyone want to get rid of pictures like that ?
Great thread by the way - keep it coming.
-
Dr. Chimps, you do know your movie stuff well .... Yep, that Merry Go Round was in "The Sting" as well as many other second rate/featured films of the 50's, but I think that the actual office scene was built in the studio, and what appears to be an office in the building is actually a storage space. How the hell did you recall the character's name ...... Henry Gondorff?
Actually, the first movie I thought of was Hitchcock's 'Stranger's on a Train' where the baddie buys it at the end on the merry-go-round, but the office clue was key. That's where Redford comes across a hungover Newman and The Sting to get Robert Shaw gets hatched. Both superb movies.
-
What's the status of Gold's Venice right now? Last I heard it took a swing for the worst. Haven't lived there for 4 years...