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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Deicide on April 14, 2009, 12:48:03 PM
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http://antiwar.com/radio/category/somalia/page/3/
Ken Menkhaus, Associate Professor of Political Science at Davidson College, discusses the crisis in Somalia [.pdf], 2.5 million people on the brink of starvation, the disarray in U.S. humanitarian, counter-terrorism and state building policy within Somalia, disproportionate response to a slight pretext and resulting widespread anti-Americanism where there was none before, Somaliland and the catch 22 of giving humanitarian aid.
Dr. Menkhaus specializes in the Horn of Africa, with a particular interest in Somalia. He has researched, written, and conducted policy work on such topics as humanitarian relief, peacekeeping, post-conflict development assistance, collapsed states, protracted conflict, and Islamic movements in the Horn of Africa. In 1993-94 he served as special political advisor in the U.N. operation in Somalia, and was visiting professor at the US Army Peacekeeping Institute in 1994-95. In 2002 he was awarded a USIP research grant to complete a book on protracted conflicts in the Horn of Africa.
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it's hard to pity them when they have a gun to an innocent american captain's head.
yes, they got the shit end of the stick on resources.
yes, everyone and their mother dumps shit in their waters.
yes, it sucks and they should go to the UN and make issue.
resorting to violent crime, then using proceeds to build huge oceanfront mansions as many of them do, just isn't cool.
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it's hard to pity them when they have a gun to an innocent american captain's head.
yes, they got the shit end of the stick on resources.
yes, everyone and their mother dumps shit in their waters.
yes, it sucks and they should go to the UN and make issue.
resorting to violent crime, then using proceeds to build huge oceanfront mansions as many of them do, just isn't cool.
The point is that we created the fucking pirates. We made the mess there.
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It seems like most of Africa is severely dysfunctional. Don't think it's America's fault but merely the laws of evolution at work. Look at Darfur where these people hack the arms off of little children and women. It's hard to see these people as anything more than primitive savages. Throw Muslims into the mix and the only solution is to totally annihilate these people when they act up and rob our ships. I can't see why it's so hard to have some Planes bomb the pirate ships into oblivion except that it would upset some bleeding heart who sympathizes with these types.
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It seems like most of Africa is severely dysfunctional. Don't think it's America's fault but merely the laws of evolution at work. Look at Darfur where these people hack the arms off of little children and women. It's hard to see these people as anything more than primitive savages. Throw Muslims into the mix and the only solution is to totally annihilate these people when they act up and rob our ships. I can't see why it's so hard to have some Planes bomb the pirate ships into oblivion except that it would upset some bleeding heart who sympathizes with these types.
I don't sympathise; I just want to get out of the region, never was any point to it.
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The point is that we created the fucking pirates. We made the mess there.
Blame America.....ok Decide, once again blaming America. I guess u missed how we went in there to feed people right?
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I don't sympathise; I just want to get out of the region, never was any point to it.
Well, in a normal country offering humanitarian aid would be seen as a positive thing and a normal government would make sure the aid was distributed properly. But you have Islamic extremists over there and look at wherever they are, whether it's in Iraq, Indonesia or whatever. They're at each others throats, have been for hundreds of years, are constantly blowing up people with bombs. They can not seem to get their act together, even in the Phillipines, you have muslim terrorists. I too wish America could have come up with alternative energy sources, so we could just stay out of these countries altogether. It's the age old story of a clash of civilizations, and the Muslims seem to have a real problem getting along with the rest of the civilized world.
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The whole fucking world wants it both ways. When we dont save the world, we're the rich, greedy and unsympathetic Americans. When we save the world, we're occupyiers who create all the ills of the world.
We shouldn't interefere unless its an instance when we should, and then, we shouldn't occupy a country any longer than necessary, but if we leave abruptly it's our fault when somebody worse takes over.
Fuck the world.
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Its beyond that, they want to export their brand of wack job religion here. Now if we could pull out of the Middle East and had our own energy supply, they would just fight each other. Food would be scarce as would money, but hopefully they'd all waste each other. We're just in the way as is Israel. But until we can run our SUV's on water, we're stuck dealing with them.
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it's hard to pity them when they have a gun to an innocent american captain's head.
yes, they got the shit end of the stick on resources.
yes, everyone and their mother dumps shit in their waters.
yes, it sucks and they should go to the UN and make issue.
resorting to violent crime, then using proceeds to build huge oceanfront mansions as many of them do, just isn't cool.
It's not about pity these fcukers you buffon. ;)
It's classic causality - you have to understand a problem before you can fix it.
If you just cut off heads of the hydra, it will grow new ones.
Ie, if we, the civilized world, can cut off the support for these pirates, through various means, both political and if necessary, military - then it's possible to put an end to this plague for a long time.
But if we just try to hit the pirates hard when they attack ships, or if we try to hunt them down, they will try to find other ways to get by.
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They will end up being funded by AQ. Its what I would do. I'd get my jihadist buddies and a few million in cash and weapons and head to Somalia. They I'd insist they take Akmed or Abdul on the next run against a Western flagged ship. Akmed would then detonate himself and we'd proclaim victory. Maybe I'd do some Utube beheadings as well. Its the next step for these guys, who undoubtably have connections with jihadists.
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i heard these pirates have been robbing these seas since the 1600s.
America wasn't "invented" until a while after that. So we didn't invent this.
Now, if we're somehow causing piracy because we're not helping them? I can't buy that either. I choose not to feed my neighbor breakfast. if he shoplifts from Wal-mart, it's not my fault.
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Its beyond that, they want to export their brand of wack job religion here. Now if we could pull out of the Middle East and had our own energy supply, they would just fight each other. Food would be scarce as would money, but hopefully they'd all waste each other. We're just in the way as is Israel. But until we can run our SUV's on water, we're stuck dealing with them.
In theory if you were order to drop a nuclear weapon on a say, Toronto, because you were ORDERED, would you do it?
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Billions upon billions of aid given to sub-saharan countries from the US and other nations around the world. Countless religious and secular charities, government groups, UN resolutions, mass food deliveries, private companies, and philanthropic efforts by some of the world's richest and most influential people have all mostly FAILED to curb the ills of Africa......violence, ignorance, disease, poverty, hunger, famine.
Deicide is partially correct...America and the West does share some of the blame, albeit via good intentions and the unfortunate affects of globalization.....the introduction of modern technology to what would have otherwise been a backwards and primitive culture. This technology comes in the form of weaponry. The Europeans didn't defeat the Native Americans with armies(later, they did, when the N.As realized what had happened)....they defeated them with goods and cool gadgets.
However, the harsh climate, the rise of Islam, the strange melding of primitive culture with modern technology, overpopulation, and mass government corruption have all taken a brutal toll on Africa.
Plenty of blame to go around......but no one with the cajones to do the correct thing.
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Hmmmm...lemme see. America is busted for selling arms and military gear to the Ethiopians about two years ago in order to get the Ethiopians to fight against the Somalis (no reason has ever been given for fostering war between the two nations, but lets look further). This is soon followed by the Ethiopians advancing into Somalia and building an embassy for america (WTF? why would the Ethiopians build an embassy in Somalia for america). While all of this is going on, america is still selling military arms to the Sudanese (Oh...you didn't know?) and while america is funding the opposing religious/political groups in Sudan it is surveying the vast oil reserves in souther Sudan (I think you might be getting the picture now).
Now Sudan is a agriculturally rich country bigger than all of Europe and capable of feeding ALL OF AFRICA. With this type of wealth there should be no hunger in Africa at all, BUT, the goal of "THE DOG" is to keep the people fighting and divisiveness going at every turn so as not to foster concern for one another let alone the whole continent of Africa. So rather than focusing on feeding their own, america has fostered this civil war syndrome in the country and has kept the fight going on for what seem forever, so that they will never thnk of anyhting else but killing and if everyone starves including the whole continent of Africa ...then OH WELL..
Now unbeknownst to the masses in Sudan, or even america, is the pipeline being put into place in southern Sudan which will stretch across Sudan, across Ethiopia then across Somalia to the GUlf Of Aden...where it just so happen to have the american embassy. Get a map of Africa and look at it...a straight line can be drawn from southern Sudan all teh way to the Gulf of Aden (Somalia). Now to justify adding american military presence in Sudan, america found a few desperate Somalis to stand and pose with grenade launchers and/or stand on oil tankers with the same. They were photographed and the caption of SOMALI PIRATES were added. This was followed by story after story of SOMALI PIRATES TAKE OVER TANKERS in the news and papers world wide in order to incense the world into believing that the only way to deal with this problem is with WAR (first start off with a few war ships, hijacked captains, hostage situations etc etc ...you know the american game by now) Next the UN will get involved claiming PEACEKEEPERS are necessay in Somalia. These troops will invade and occupy specific areas of Somalia and cause much internal strife. While the Somalis fight one another and attack american military now and then, american military will involve itself all the more and claim it needs a permanent presense there in order to provide security to the tanker ships in the Gulf and to quell uprisings...in will come Halliburton/KBR/Core of engineers etc who will begin building terminals in Somalia, refineries, docks etc etc all that is necessary to fill oil tankers and ship them to america and elsewhere.
Once all of this infrastructure is established and in place oil will start being pumped from souther Sudan to the coast of Somalia...america will then focus on creating more division in Sudan (northern region this time) in order to find out if there are more oil resources there and if so in will come the military under the guise of helping to quell the violence but the truth will be to lay more pipelines and build more oil wells ( just like america did and is doing in Afghanisan). America will then install new puppet leaders to keep the Sudanese, Ethiopians, and Somalis from ever uprising against "american interest" (meaning OIL) while the natural resource of Sudan is pumped dry.
america is a crafty DEVIL, but predictable at the same time. Its game has not changed at all and its greed remains the same.
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Gosh Samson. Your so smart. How is it your still a semi literate primate living in an undisclosed jungle somewhere, instead of being a political science Professor at Harvard or a counter-terrorism adviser to NATO or the UN?
Your immeasurable intelligence is being wasted here at Getbig! You should really get your message out!
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Gosh Samson. Your so smart.
GEE... thank you whorehell...I'm speechless...You are one hard nut to crack, but all I had to do is use a BIGGER HAMMER (or coconut) to make you see...it worked.
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Hmmmm...lemme see. America is busted for selling arms and military gear to the Ethiopians about two years ago in order to get the Ethiopians to fight against the Somalis (no reason has ever been given for fostering war between the two nations, but lets look further). This is soon followed by the Ethiopians advancing into Somalia and building an embassy for america (WTF? why would the Ethiopians build an embassy in Somalia for america). While all of this is going on, america is still selling military arms to the Sudanese (Oh...you didn't know?) and while america is funding the opposing religious/political groups in Sudan it is surveying the vast oil reserves in souther Sudan (I think you might be getting the picture now).
Now Sudan is a agriculturally rich country bigger than all of Europe and capable of feeding ALL OF AFRICA. With this type of wealth there should be no hunger in Africa at all, BUT, the goal of "THE DOG" is to keep the people fighting and divisiveness going at every turn so as not to foster concern for one another let alone the whole continent of Africa. So rather than focusing on feeding their own, america has fostered this civil war syndrome in the country and has kept the fight going on for what seem forever, so that they will never thnk of anyhting else but killing and if everyone starves including the whole continent of Africa ...then OH WELL..
Now unbeknownst to the masses in Sudan, or even america, is the pipeline being put into place in southern Sudan which will stretch across Sudan, across Ethiopia then across Somalia to the GUlf Of Aden...where it just so happen to have the american embassy. Get a map of Africa and look at it...a straight line can be drawn from southern Sudan all teh way to the Gulf of Aden (Somalia). Now to justify adding american military presence in Sudan, america found a few desperate Somalis to stand and pose with grenade launchers and/or stand on oil tankers with the same. They were photographed and the caption of SOMALI PIRATES were added. This was followed by story after story of SOMALI PIRATES TAKE OVER TANKERS in the news and papers world wide in order to incense the world into believing that the only way to deal with this problem is with WAR (first start off with a few war ships, hijacked captains, hostage situations etc etc ...you know the american game by now) Next the UN will get involved claiming PEACEKEEPERS are necessay in Somalia. These troops will invade and occupy specific areas of Somalia and cause much internal strife. While the Somalis fight one another and attack american military now and then, american military will involve itself all the more and claim it needs a permanent presense there in order to provide security to the tanker ships in the Gulf and to quell uprisings...in will come Halliburton/KBR/Core of engineers etc who will begin building terminals in Somalia, refineries, docks etc etc all that is necessary to fill oil tankers and ship them to america and elsewhere.
Once all of this infrastructure is established and in place oil will start being pumped from souther Sudan to the coast of Somalia...america will then focus on creating more division in Sudan (northern region this time) in order to find out if there are more oil resources there and if so in will come the military under the guise of helping to quell the violence but the truth will be to lay more pipelines and build more oil wells ( just like america did and is doing in Afghanisan). America will then install new puppet leaders to keep the Sudanese, Ethiopians, and Somalis from ever uprising against "american interest" (meaning OIL) while the natural resource of Sudan is pumped dry.
america is a crafty DEVIL, but predictable at the same time. Its game has not changed at all and its greed remains the same.
Hey Genius Sudan is a coastal country with their own ports. It is also closer to the Suez Canal where most of the oil would flow.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/SudanOMC.png
Also Sudan receives quite a bit of cash from China.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htm
In 1998, CNPC’s construction arm, China Petroleum Engineering & Construction (Group) Corporation (CPECC), participated in the construction of the 1,500-kilometer-long GNPOC pipeline from Blocks 1 and 2 to the Red Sea. It also built a refinery near Khartoum with a 2.5 million-ton processing capacity. It further engaged in “10 million tons oilfield surface engineering.” The Sudan project became “the first overseas large oilfield operated by China,” according to the Chinese.1397
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Hey Genius Sudan is a coastal country with their own ports. It is also closer to the Suez Canal where most of the oil would flow. Hello JACKASS I did say that the oil reserves that are known are IN tHE SOUTHERN PART OF SUDAN...MANY MILES FROM THE NORTH... Read my post again and look at the map you provided.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/SudanOMC.png
Also Sudan receives quite a bit of cash from China. The Chinese are dealing primarily with the north while america has its eyes on the south. China is also dealing HONESTLY with Sudan as opposed to america's usual trickery. I remember all to well how america wished to fuel controversy and racial hate (something it specializes in) by saying the Chinese were dealing UNFAIRLY with the Sudanese, yet China not only was building the oil/refinery infrastructure, they are also building schools, roads, hospitals, universities, providing technology of all type etc etc...something america has never done in any nation it has usurped of natural resources.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htm
In 1998, CNPC’s construction arm, China Petroleum Engineering & Construction (Group) Corporation (CPECC), participated in the construction of the 1,500-kilometer-long GNPOC pipeline from Blocks 1 and 2 to the Red Sea. It also built a refinery near Khartoum with a 2.5 million-ton processing capacity. It further engaged in “10 million tons oilfield surface engineering.” The Sudan project became “the first overseas large oilfield operated by China,” according to the Chinese.1397
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The point is that we created the fucking pirates. We made the mess there.
You sound like Obama when he went to France. Fuck them....we didn't "make any mess".
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Samson , you are the master of making up facts and using no evidence to back them up.
My post was from the Human rights watch.
You want to know what China is doing look at Darfur.
The weapons they give to Sudan go there to kill the non-Arab population.
What you said was that America is building a pipeline through Sudan Ethiopia and Somalia.
This simply isn't true, just like 99% of your posts, as I posted from the Human rights watch China is building almost of the oil infrastructure in that country.
They also export almost no oil to Ethopia.
http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article25047
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/index.htm
Arms Trade between China and Sudan
China was not new to Sudan. By the time it invested in GNPOC in December 1996, it was already a familiar arms dealer to many Sudanese governments. The Nimeiri government (1969-85) bought weapons from China. But these purchases rose in the 1990s due to Sudan’s internal war and the promise of improved finances and enhanced international credit derived from its oil potential.
Weapons deliveries from China to Sudan since 1995 have included ammunition, tanks, helicopters, and fighter aircraft. China also became a major supplier of antipersonnel and antitank mines after 1980, according to a Sudanese government official.1387 The SPLA in 1997 overran government garrison towns in the south, and in one town alone, Yei, a Human Rights Watch researcher saw eight Chinese 122 mm towed howitzers, five Chinese-made T-59 tanks, and one Chinese 37 mm anti-aircraft gun abandoned by the government army.1388
Human Rights Watch concluded that while China’s motivation for this arms trade appeared to be primarily economic, China made available easy financing for some of these arms purchases.1389
U.S. Attempts to Obtain an End to Civilian Aerial Bombardment, 2001/2002
Former U.S. Senator John Danforth was appointed U.S. presidential special envoy for peace in Sudan on September 6, 2001. Among the four agreements he initially proposed to the parties, the Sudanese government and the SPLM/A, was a cessation of bombing and artillery attacks on civilians in southern Sudan. Senator Danforth visited Khartoum several times and during his January 2002 visit Ghazi Salah el-Din Atabani, the government’s peace minister, offered what he called “a voluntary, unlitateral cessation of aerial bombing for four weeks as a test.”1103 This offer, however, was contingent on the SPLA laying down its weapons. In response John Garang, the leader of the SPLM/A, stated that “nobody should bomb civilian targets; it’s an insult to human rights. . . . For a member of the United Nations and Organisation of African Unity to present this as a concession … is laughable.”1104 In the course of negotiations, however, Senator Danforth suggested an agreement banning all targeting of civilians and civilian objects, not just a ban on aerial bombardment of civilians.
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Don't feed them with our hard-earned tax dollars? Just shoot them all..... it's so simple?
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Don't feed them with our hard-earned tax dollars? Just shoot them all..... it's so simple?
Where do you make these little posters at? There's a website somewhere...
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Africa would be a pretty cool place if we could just get rid of the Africans. We should just stop feeding them and let them kill each other, starve, and die of AIDS. Without aid from the rest of the world it could be accomplished in a century or so.
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Africa would be a pretty cool place if we could just get rid of the Africans. We should just stop feeding them and let them kill each other, starve, and die of AIDS. Without aid from the rest of the world it could be accomplished in a century or so.
I say the same thing about the planet earth...just get rid of the whites and PEACE WILL SPRING EVERYWHERE...becasue whereever they are there is war, disease, filth and murder....shame
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Don't feed them with our hard-earned tax dollars? Just shoot them all..... it's so simple?
Africa would be a pretty cool place if we could just get rid of the Africans. We should just stop feeding them and let them kill each other, starve, and die of AIDS. Without aid from the rest of the world it could be accomplished in a century or so.
Agreed the retarded spear throwers would not survive be it not for hand outs from the white man...if the shoe shine people were left to their own devices they would not last a century, RJW. Our own countries are pleading poverty at this current time (believe of that what you will), yet those puppets who profess to be in control, will still throw money at countries spawning AIDs infested darkie scum.
I say the same thing about the planet earth...just get rid of the whites and PEACE WILL SPRING EVERYWHERE...becasue whereever they are there is war, disease, filth and murder....shame
Get rid of the whites? OK....lets for one second suppose your ludicrous connotation were to come to fruition....how long would it take for the 'civilized' society you are accustomed to, to fall down around your shitty black calves? The niggaz would run riot, robbing and raping anything in reach.
What exactly have the colored folk contributed to todays modern world?
Have they invented anything significant?
Could they survive without the white man?
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I agree with your fundamental argument minus the racism. Direct your racism toward Samson, not non-whites at large. Most non-whites are decent people that are productive members of society- there are also many whites that are complete wastes of space that make the world worse- some of the people who post on this board are a perfect example.
Samson on the other hand is a moderately well trained gorilla with an internet connection.