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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Busted on April 16, 2009, 01:16:48 AM
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Socialist Programs in America right wingers seem to forget about..
Police
Firemen
Ambulance
Hospitals
Garbage Men (in my state anyways)
Schools
Social Security for our elderly
Medicare
Medicade
Any others I am missing? Seems Healthcare works in every other country in the civilized world except ours... We got money to Free Iraq, but when it comes to making sure our citizens can have health care its SOCIALIST!!!
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Busted, I don't spend much time on this board but I think I read you said you work for 2 companies. Do you own them?
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Busted, I don't spend much time on this board but I think I read you said you work for 2 companies. Do you own them?
This is the same guy who claims to be a multi-millionare yet can't even put together a coherent sentence.
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Socialist Programs in America right wingers seem to forget about..
Police
Firemen
Ambulance
Hospitals
Garbage Men (in my state anyways)
Schools
Social Security for our elderly
Medicare
Medicade
Any others I am missing? Seems Healthcare works in every other country in the civilized world except ours... We got money to Free Iraq, but when it comes to making sure our citizens can have health care its SOCIALIST!!!
Department of Transportation
United States Postal Service
Department of Agriculture
Department of Education
United States University System
National Institute of Health
Center for Disease Control
All National Parks
All National Zoos
There are many, many more.
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Department of Transportation
ENDLESS SPENDING AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING.
United States Postal Service
RUNS AT A LOSS AND WOULD BE BETTER RUN BY UPS OR FEDEX
Department of Agriculture
SUBSIDIZES FARMERS NOT TO GROW FOOD.
Department of Education
WASTE OF $$$ AND NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. EDUCATION WAS FAR BETTER BEFORE WE HAD THIS WASTEFUL AGENCY.
United States University System
OTHER THAN THE MILITARY ACADEMIES, I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO.
National Institute of Health
WHAT DO THEY DO???
Center for Disease Control
IMPORTANT FUNCTION.
All National Parks
NOT A HUGE BUDGET ITEM
All National Zoos
I AM UNAWARE OF ANY NATIONAL ZOOS.
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Department of Transportation
ENDLESS SPENDING AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING.
United States Postal Service
RUNS AT A LOSS AND WOULD BE BETTER RUN BY UPS OR FEDEX
Department of Agriculture
SUBSIDIZES FARMERS NOT TO GROW FOOD.
Department of Education
WASTE OF $$$ AND NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. EDUCATION WAS FAR BETTER BEFORE WE HAD THIS WASTEFUL AGENCY.
United States University System
OTHER THAN THE MILITARY ACADEMIES, I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO.
National Institute of Health
WHAT DO THEY DO???
Center for Disease Control
IMPORTANT FUNCTION.
All National Parks
NOT A HUGE BUDGET ITEM
All National Zoos
I AM UNAWARE OF ANY NATIONAL ZOOS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institutes_of_Health
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) is an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services and is the primary agency of the United States government responsible for biomedical and health-related research. Its science and engineering counterpart is the National Science Foundation.
As of 2003, the Institutes are responsible for 28%—about $28 billion—of the total biomedical research funding spent annually in the U.S., with most of the rest coming from industry.[1] The NIH is divided into two parts: the "Extramural" parts of NIH are responsible for the funding of biomedical research outside of NIH, while the "Intramural" parts of NIH conduct research. Intramural research is primarily conducted at the main campus in Bethesda in unincorporated Montgomery County, Maryland, and the surrounding communities. The National Institute of Aging and the National Institute on Drug Abuse are located in Baltimore, Maryland, and the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences is in Research Triangle, North Carolina. The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases NIAID maintains Rocky Mountain Labs in Hamilton, Montana,[2] with an emphasis on virology.
The goal of NIH research is to acquire new knowledge to help prevent, detect, diagnose, and treat disease and disability, from the rarest genetic disorder to the common cold. The NIH mission is to uncover new knowledge that will lead to better health for everyone. NIH works toward that mission by: conducting research in its own laboratories; supporting the research of non-Federal scientists in universities, medical schools, hospitals, and research institutions throughout the country and abroad; helping in the training of research investigators; and fostering communication of medical and health sciences information.
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Why cant universities do this?
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Why cant universities do this?
They already do. That requires tax money as well.
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Chris,
Would you like me to address the other agencies?
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They already do. That requires tax money as well.
Fine, but with Federal employees, we get saddled with pensions, costs, red tape, CSEA, etc.
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Busted, I don't spend much time on this board but I think I read you said you work for 2 companies. Do you own them?
bump in case Busted missed this question
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You don't want to socialise university education, believe me I know from first hand experience.
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Peter Schiff has a great piece on his youtube channel at how the Ferderal Govt's involvement in college has only sent costs skyrocketing with no real improvement in quality.
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Peter Schiff has a great piece on his youtube channel at how the Ferderal Govt's involvement in college has only sent costs skyrocketing with no real improvement in quality.
I am talking about having gone through the French and German system where you pay next to nothing; I got a much better education in the US despite the ripoff price...
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Peter Schiff has a great piece on his youtube channel at how the Ferderal Govt's involvement in college has only sent costs skyrocketing with no real improvement in quality.
Quality eh?
You can`t really do much with people who are blind to Science and cannot understand a fact or comprehend the context of it, or know what a credible source entails and where to find them.
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I am talking about having gone through the French and German system where you pay next to nothing; I got a much better education in the US despite the ripoff price...
His point is that the huge availability of loans lets the schools drive the tution to whatever prices because they know students can borrow and go into debt to pay for it.
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Quality eh?
You can`t really do much with people who are blind to Science and cannot understand a fact or comprehend the context of it, or know what a credible source entails and where to find them.
So now you know more than Peter Schiff?
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So now you know more than Peter Schiff?
I am sure that I know many things he does not and he knows many things I do not.
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I am sure that I know many things he does not and he knows many things I do not.
Ok, the topic is economics. Maybe you know more about diet, etc, but I will bet everything I have that he knows far more than you on economics.
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I am sure that I know many things he does not and he knows many things I do not.
Listen to his April 15, 2009 piece called Wall Street unspun and tell me what he is wrong about.
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His point is that the huge availability of loans lets the schools drive the tution to whatever prices because they know students can borrow and go into debt to pay for it.
I have been saying that for a long time regarding student loans. Corporations and Employers LOVE when they get someone who has an outstanding student loan. They know they are not going anywhere and will be good little obedient workers. It should not take any loan to want to learn a fact. In fact, it should be free. George Washington`s dream was a free National University system with the first one built in Washington DC with the money left in his will. Sadly it has never been realized.
"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
— George Washington
"A primary object should be the education of our youth in the science of government. In a republic, what species of knowledge can be equally important? And what duty more pressing than communicating it to those who are to be the future guardians of the liberties of the country?"
— George Washington
"Promote, then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened."
-- George Washington
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Its called debt slavery. These college kids dont know a damn thing about finance when they take on these massive loans to get educated and then are screwed for life.
Its really sad. I could not imagine being 23 y/o right now owing 150k for loans.
Peter Schiff calls it the mortgage without a house.
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Did I miss something?
Nobody is arguing there should be NO taxes. Basic services such as Police, Fire, Sanitation and the like are essential features of any functioning society- and everyone should contribute their FAIR share.
What people object to is a massive hike on taxes to pay for things that are a waste of money, forcing some people to pay high taxes while others pay none and the concept of "spreading the wealth" and class warfare being espoused by the Obama administration. Being penalized for success is something no President should stand for.
Further, people complain about socialism when 40 million+ illegals who pay no taxes drain the services our tax dollars pay for, while many Americans can't afford to pay for basic necessities. Also, throw in the fact that more than half the country pays little to no taxes at all and it's beyond socialism, its the poor parasites leeching off of society's productive members.
Pointing out a bunch of random government departments which are by and large useful to the country is totally irrelevant to the gripes people have with Obama.
Also- Statewide taxes have increased exponentially as several states are on the verge of bankruptcy- NY, CA, MI, etc. etc.-- Why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? Because of too many useless, wasteful and cash hemorrhaging social programs, higher business and corporate tax rates and entitlements passed in legislation by incompetent politicians. Socialism does not work- Raising taxes in the middle of a recession will not work*
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Yes I do... I own one Business free and clear and the other one I have a business partner...
Busted, I don't spend much time on this board but I think I read you said you work for 2 companies. Do you own them?
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Did I miss something?
Nobody is arguing there should be NO taxes. Basic services such as Police, Fire, Sanitation and the like are essential features of any functioning society- and everyone should contribute their FAIR share.
What people object to is a massive hike on taxes to pay for things that are a waste of money, forcing some people to pay high taxes while others pay none and the concept of "spreading the wealth" and class warfare being espoused by the Obama administration. Being penalized for success is something no President should stand for.
Further, people complain about socialism when 40 million+ illegals who pay no taxes drain the services our tax dollars pay for, while many Americans can't afford to pay for basic necessities. Also, throw in the fact that more than half the country pays little to no taxes at all and it's beyond socialism, its the poor parasites leeching off of society's productive members.
Pointing out a bunch of random government departments which are by and large useful to the country is totally irrelevant to the gripes people have with Obama.
Also- Statewide taxes have increased exponentially as several states are on the verge of bankruptcy- NY, CA, MI, etc. etc.-- Why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? Because of too many useless, wasteful and cash hemorrhaging social programs, higher business and corporate tax rates and entitlements passed in legislation by incompetent politicians. Socialism does not work- Raising taxes in the middle of a recession will not work*
AMEN!!!!
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This is the same guy who claims to be a multi-millionare yet can't even put together a coherent sentence.
I have never once seen you put together a complete thought that is not directly from Fox News.
When Did I say I was a Multi-Millionaire? Im in the top tax bracket, thats all iv ever said there Bible thumper.
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I have never once seen you put together a complete thought that is not directly from Fox News.
When Did I say I was a Multi-Millionaire? Im in the top tax bracket, thats all iv ever said there Bible thumper.
I have not been in a church in over a decade.
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I have not been in a church in over a decade.
You sure seem to follow the rhetoric the religious right and Fixed Noise talks about even when the facts tell a different story..
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Did I miss something?
Nobody is arguing there should be NO taxes. Basic services such as Police, Fire, Sanitation and the like are essential features of any functioning society- and everyone should contribute their FAIR share.
What people object to is a massive hike on taxes to pay for things that are a waste of money, forcing some people to pay high taxes while others pay none and the concept of "spreading the wealth" and class warfare being espoused by the Obama administration. Being penalized for success is something no President should stand for.
Further, people complain about socialism when 40 million+ illegals who pay no taxes drain the services our tax dollars pay for, while many Americans can't afford to pay for basic necessities. Also, throw in the fact that more than half the country pays little to no taxes at all and it's beyond socialism, its the poor parasites leeching off of society's productive members.
Pointing out a bunch of random government departments which are by and large useful to the country is totally irrelevant to the gripes people have with Obama.
Also- Statewide taxes have increased exponentially as several states are on the verge of bankruptcy- NY, CA, MI, etc. etc.-- Why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? Because of too many useless, wasteful and cash hemorrhaging social programs, higher business and corporate tax rates and entitlements passed in legislation by incompetent politicians. Socialism does not work- Raising taxes in the middle of a recession will not work*
Uh, Illegals pay taxes but don`t get any of the benefits of the system. THAT is the real travesty. Illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006.
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You sure seem to follow the rhetoric the religious right and Fixed Noise talks about even when the facts tell a different story..
I dont watch fox news and am not religious ay all. By and large I have libertarian views.
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You can read about yourself with many, many articles on the web.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time
Updated 4/11/2008 10:53 AM
By Travis Loller, Associated Press
NASHVILLE — The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.
Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.
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At Tax Time, "Illegal Immigrants" are Paying Too
April 10, 2008
The Associated Press
April 10, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.
Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn’t fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.
Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.
The Internal Revenue Service doesn’t track a worker’s immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won’t risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund. Economist William Ford of Middle Tennessee State University says there are no firm figures on how many taxpayers are in that situation.
"The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said.
But some illegal immigrants choose to file taxes and write a check come April 15, using an alternative to the Social Security number offered by the IRS so it can collect income tax from foreign workers.
"It’s a mistake to think that no illegal immigrants pay taxes. They definitely do," said Martha Pantoja, who has been helping Hispanic immigrants this tax season as an IRS-certified volunteer tax preparer for the nonprofit Nashville Wealth Building Coalition.
Among those she has assisted is Eric Jimenez, a self-employed handyman who has worked in Nashville for several years. He feels obliged to pay taxes — even though, as Pantoja said, "nothing would happen" to him if he did not.
"I have an idea, a mentality, that to be a good citizen you have to pay taxes," he said. "Also, I’m conscious of the fact that the money we pay in taxes supports the schools and all the public services."
Pantoja said she has helped a number of construction workers who, because they are classified as independent contractors by their employers and have no taxes withheld, owe big tax bills come April. Beyond income tax, they have to pay the full Social Security and Medicare taxes due.
The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.
The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.
Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants. The number is certainly not 100 percent, but a significant portion probably comes from taxes paid by illegal immigrants.
Nine billion dollars sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but it is only about 1.5 percent of the total $593 billion paid into Social Security in 2005.
The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers.
Federal law prohibits paying Social Security to illegal immigrants, but the administration factors in both legal and illegal immigration when projecting the trust fund’s long-term solvency.
This is especially important as the 78 million-member baby boom generation begins to leave the work force and draw Social Security checks.
"Overall, any type of immigration is a net positive to Social Security. The more people working and paying into the system, the better," Hinkle said. "It does help the system remain solvent."
The Social Security Administration drew from census and Immigration and Customs Enforcement data in 2007 to project the effects of higher and lower immigration patterns.
If net immigration is high at 1.3 million people a year, the SSA’s combined trust fund would be exhausted in 2043. But the fund runs out four years earlier if annual net immigration amounts to about half that — 472,500 legal immigrants and 250,000 illegal immigrants.
The Internal Revenue Service doesn’t have an estimate of how many illegal immigrants pay income tax.
But one indicator is the 9 million W-2 forms with mismatched names and Social Security numbers it received in 2004. The IRS said the W-2 forms with invalid Social Security numbers reported about $53 billion in wages and about three-fourths of that, $40 billion in wages, had taxes withheld.
The IRS also has been issuing Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers, or ITINs, for 12 years to foreigners without a Social Security number. It’s believed that many workers who seek the ITINs are in the country illegally, and the IRS reported that there were 2.5 million tax returns filed with an ITIN in 2004.
In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003."
An IRS spokesman said more recent figures aren’t available.
The Social Security and Medicare taxes from mismatched W2s for the same period was $41.4 billion, Hinkle said.
That adds up to roughly $90 billion in federal taxes during they eight-year period.
The IRS defends the ITIN system, despite criticism that some illegal immigrants have used it to open bank accounts, get mortgages and establish a record of residency and taxpaying they hope might someday lead to legal status.
"The ITIN program is bringing taxpayers into the system," Everson told Congress.
Middle Tennessee State’s Ford, who has studied taxes and immigration, says a majority of economists agree that illegal immigrants are a net benefit for the U.S. economy.
He said the tax contributions from illegal immigrants, including sales taxes, property taxes and excise taxes (such as the gas tax), are significant.
He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation’s $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006. That number assumes illegal immigrants are 30 percent less productive than other workers.
"If anything we need more immigrants coming into the country, not less, especially with the baby boomers retiring," he said.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/04/AR2006060400965.html
Study: Immigrants Pay Tax Share
No Gap With U.S.-Born Residents Seen in Area, but Those Here Illegally Account for Less
By Karin Brulliard
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 5, 2006; Page B01
The taxes paid by immigrant households in the Washington region are on par with those paid by native-born Americans
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I have been saying that for a long time regarding student loans. Corporations and Employers LOVE when they get someone who has an outstanding student loan. They know they are not going anywhere and will be good little obedient workers. It should not take any loan to want to learn a fact. In fact, it should be free. George Washington`s dream was a free National University system with the first one built in Washington DC with the money left in his will. Sadly it has never been realized.
"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
— George Washington
"A primary object should be the education of our youth in the science of government. In a republic, what species of knowledge can be equally important? And what duty more pressing than communicating it to those who are to be the future guardians of the liberties of the country?"
— George Washington
"Promote, then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened."
-- George Washington
Illusion of infallibility.
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Illusion of infallibility.
George Washington was far from suffering the delusion of infallibility. The very reason he was so adamant for establishing his National University System was due to the fact that he was not a formally educated man and was bothered by this fact. His genius was in spotting latent and patent talent,ones who possessed skills he knowingly lacked and then employing them under one banner.
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You can read about yourself with many, many articles on the web.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time
Updated 4/11/2008 10:53 AM
By Travis Loller, Associated Press
NASHVILLE — The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.
Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.
It doesn't matter how much they pay in taxes. They have no business being here; hence the reason they're called ILLEGAL immigrants. Besides, since many are working jobs for far less money than U.S. citizens would be required to be paid, whatever they pay in taxes (of the handful that might actually do so) is but a small pittance, compared to what they consume.
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I have never once seen you put together a complete thought that is not directly from Fox News.
When Did I say I was a Multi-Millionaire? Im in the top tax bracket, thats all iv ever said there Bible thumper.
and i've never seen you at all, seeing as you seem to have your face permanently implanted underneath keith olbermann's jock.
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George Washington was far from suffering the delusion of infallibility. The very reason he was so adamant for establishing his National University System was due to the fact that he was not a formally educated man and was bothered by this fact. His genius was in spotting latent and patent talent,ones who possessed skills he knowingly lacked and then employing them under one banner.
I am was referring to you actually...
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I am was referring to you actually...
In what manner and why?
One question to you...Have you been a negative and apathetic person your entire life or is it relatively new?
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It doesn't matter how much they pay in taxes. They have no business being here; hence the reason they're called ILLEGAL immigrants. Besides, since many are working jobs for far less money than U.S. citizens would be required to be paid, whatever they pay in taxes (of the handful that might actually do so) is but a small pittance, compared to what they consume.
Deport every single illegal alien out of the USA overnight,
...and see how quickly you cry like a baby begging them to come back.
The economies of Cali, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas would collapse overnight and your country would starve!
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LMAOOOOOO--- Right. What would happen is that Americans would get those jobs, businesses would be forced to pay at least minimum wage, and 40+ million strains on our social services would be gone.
This nonsense about our economy collapsing overnight because employers would have to hire Americans is a bunch of horseshit. The argument is also 110% hypocritical. You same pro illegals bitch about American jobs going overseas, world trade, outsourcing and the like-- Yet you want illegals to stay here and do exactly the same thing. Seems to me like you can't have it both ways.
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LMAOOOOOO--- Right. What would happen is that Americans would get those jobs, businesses would be forced to pay at least minimum wage, and 40+ million strains on our social services would be gone.
This nonsense about our economy collapsing overnight because employers would have to hire Americans is a bunch of horseshit. The argument is also 110% hypocritical. You same pro illegals bitch about American jobs going overseas, world trade, outsourcing and the like-- Yet you want illegals to stay here and do exactly the same thing. Seems to me like you can't have it both ways.
Did I mention that I love the basis of your moniker. George Orwell was one of the greatest Socialist writers and thinkers of his time and of course his work still lives on today.
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TA I saw the first, second, third and now fourth time. And for your information, Orwell was not a socialist in the same vein as the term is applied today. If anything his most famous books are cautionary tales against having big government control everything.
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TA I saw the first, second, third and now fourth time. And for your information, Orwell was not a socialist in the same vein as the term is applied today. If anything his most famous books are cautionary tales against having big government control everything.
Uh, you are quite wrong on that one.
George Orwell`s real name was Eric Arthur Blair.
Did you not realize that he wrote under another name, "John Freeman", and penned "Can Socialists be Happy".
Here is some more info for you.
Blair then took a job teaching at the Hawthorne High School for Boys in Hayes, West London. This was a small school that provided private schooling for local tradesmen and shopkeepers and comprised only 20 boys and one other master.[17] While at the school he became friendly with the local curate and became involved with the local church. Mabel Fierz had pursued matters with Moore, and at the end of June 1932, Moore told Blair that Victor Gollancz was prepared to publish A Scullion's Diary for a £40 advance, for his recently founded publishing house, Victor Gollancz Ltd, which was an outlet for radical and socialist works.
Orwell set out for Spain on about 23 December, dining with Henry Miller in Paris on the way. A few days later at Barcelona, he met John McNair of the ILP Office who quoted him: "I've come to fight against Fascism".[23] Orwell stepped into a complex political situation in Catalonia. The Republican government was supported by a number of factions with conflicting aims, including the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification (POUM — Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista), the anarcho-syndicalist CNT and the Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia (a wing of the Spanish Communist Party, which was backed by Soviet arms and aid). The Independent Labour Party was linked to the POUM and so Orwell joined the POUM.[/glow]
Orwell was declared "Unfit for any kind of military service" by the Medical Board in June, but soon afterwards found an opportunity to become involved in war activities by joining the Home Guard. He shared Tom Wintringham's socialist vision for the Home Guard as a revolutionary People's Militia.
In this work he states his idea of socialism as "a real Socialist is one who wishes - not merely conceives it as desirable, but actively wishes - to see tyranny overthrown". However it was the Spanish Civil War that played the most important part in defining his socialism. He wrote to Cyril Connolly from Barcelona on 8 June 1937: "I have seen wonderful things and at last really believe in Socialism, which I never did before".[64][65] Having witnessed the success of the anarcho-syndicalist communities, and the subsequent brutal suppression of the anarcho-syndicalists and other revolutionaries by the Soviet-backed Communists, Orwell returned from Catalonia a staunch anti-Stalinist and joined the Independent Labour Party, his card being issued on 13 June 1938.
Orwell wrote "For some years past I have managed to make the capitalist class pay me several pounds a week for writing books against capitalism. But I do not delude myself that this state of affairs is going to last forever",[67] going on to add "the only régime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist régime. If Fascism triumphs I am finished as a writer - that is to say, finished in my only effective capacity. That of itself would be a sufficient reason for joining a Socialist party."
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Orwell joined the staff of Tribune as literary editor, and from then until his death was a left-wing (though hardly orthodox) Labour-supporting democratic socialist.
guy also considers that "the other crucial dimension to Orwell's socialism was his recognition that the Soviet Union was not socialist. Unlike many on the left, instead of abandoning socialism once he discovered the full horror of Stalinist rule in the Soviet Union, Orwell abandoned the Soviet Union and instead remained a socialist--indeed he became more committed to the socialist cause than ever."
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Did you read 1984 and Animal Farm? Orwell may have been a socialist, but he was not in favor of massively inflated government.
And that last quote about free speech proves my point undeniably. Socialism today is almost hand in hand with facism.
I never said he was not a socialist. I said he would not agree with socialism as it is today.
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TA I saw the first, second, third and now fourth time. And for your information, Orwell was not a socialist in the same vein as the term is applied today. If anything his most famous books are cautionary tales against having big government control everything.
Do you realize you are trying to rewrite Orwell`s political beliefs. He was one of the most pure Socialists ever and supported Socialism from the start.
It is ironic that you are trying to deliberately misconstrue and lie about Orwell`s political beliefs. Personally, I think you were probably just totally ignorant that he was a major Socialist.
1984 and Animal Farm are wonderful avocations for Socialism as that was his sole intention.
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PS- Posting in big FONT is something that people who are insecure or have weak arguments do. There is no need to write bigger. It doesnt make the words any "LOUDER".
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Did you read 1984 and Animal Farm? Orwell may have been a socialist, but he was not in favor of massively inflated government.
And that last quote about free speech proves my point undeniably. Socialism today is almost hand in hand with facism.
I never said he was not a socialist. I said he would not agree with socialism as it is today.
You are too dumb to realize the definition of fascism. It is SO FAR from Socialism. That last quote proves that Stalinistic Russia was in no way Socialist. Inflated government has NOTHING to do with Socialism.
You really are not too bright at all.
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PS- Posting in big FONT is something that people who are insecure or have weak arguments do. There is no need to write bigger. It doesnt make the words any "LOUDER".
At least you learned for the first time, that George Orwell was a Socialist and championed for Socialism his entire life which is the reason why he wrote the books that he did.
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Orwell was also a proponent of a federal socialist Europe, a position outlined in his 1947 essay 'Toward European Unity', which first appeared in Partisan Review.
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::)
I am not trying to re-write his beliefs. For the fourth time- I agree he was a socialist. I do not believe he would be in favor of the way socialism exists today. What I find astonishing is that you are trying to argue that 1984 is in support of having big government control everything. Did you read the book?
Repeating yourself over and over again, insulting me because I dont agree with you and typing in big font confirms my suspicions that you don't have much going on in your life besides get big. It's a nice day here in the North East. Im going to go outside. lol
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Animal Farm is a dystopian novel by George Orwell. Published in England on 17 August 1945, the book reflects events leading up to and during the Stalin era before World War II. Orwell, a democratic socialist[1] and a member of the Independent Labour Party for many years, was a critic of Joseph Stalin and was suspicious of Moscow-directed Stalinism after his experiences with the NKVD during the Spanish Civil War. In a letter to Yvonne Davet, Orwell described Animal Farm as his novel "contre Stalin".[2]
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and yes you fucking idiot- I know that big government has nothing to do with socialism, but in today's world it does and hence Orwell would not agree with it. Are you purposely not reading what I'm writing or are you illiterate?
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and yes you fucking idiot- I know that big government has nothing to do with socialism, but in today's world it does and hence Orwell would not agree with it. Are you purposely not reading what I'm writing or are you illiterate?
You are SOOOOO off the mark and incorrect that its almost amusing.
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Just proves my point of how stupid the majority of Americans are. They call Obama a Fascist, a Socialist, a Communist, a Dictator without even realizing what the definition of any of these consist of and how different they are from each other.
I saw a sign this week from a teabagger that said, "We don`t want no Socialist Communism."
The stupidity of these people is just amazing and I see that the stupidity carries over to this message board at times even.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9KYA3NQiJ60/SeaJTL1AAnI/AAAAAAAAA70/NtbHkWnuhgc/s400/adultery+(2).JPG)
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Just proves my point of how stupid the majority of Americans are. They call Obama a Facist, a Socialist, a Communist, a Dictator without even realizing what the definition of any of these consist of and how different they are from each other.
I saw a sign this week from a teabagger that said, "We don`t want no Socialist Communism."
The stupidity of these people is just amazing and I see that the stupidity carries over to this message board at times even.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9KYA3NQiJ60/SeaJTL1AAnI/AAAAAAAAA70/NtbHkWnuhgc/s400/adultery+(2).JPG)
No, it just proves how stupid you are. You spelled "fascist" wrong. ;D
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No, it just proves how stupid you are. You spelled "fascist" wrong. ;D
Uh, you might want to purchase a Dictionary. Or perhaps do a web search on how to spell fascism. I spelled the word correctly, whereas you did not.
I will help you out.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Condor,
Please seek help. I have had to correct you a few times already this week :)
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Uh, you might want to purchase a Dictionary. Or perhaps do a web search on how to spell fascism. I spelled the word correctly, whereas you did not.
I will help you out.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Condor,
Please seek help. I have had to correct you a few times already this week :)
No, you spelled it "facist." I have it highlighted in red. :-\
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No, you spelled it "facist." I have it highlighted in red. :-\
Must have been a typo and I do apologize as my fingers can get the best of me at times whilst typing. I am sure it will happen again so try not to get too bent out of shape if it does indeed happen.
However, my point still is valid regarding dumb Americans and their inability to discern the difference between systems of rule.
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....
Pointing out a bunch of random government departments which are by and large useful to the country is totally irrelevant to the gripes people have with Obama.
Anti-government nuts, Like Pete Schiff, are anti-government nuts. There's little rhyme or reason to their ramblings. The fact of the matter is that there are a numerous gov. programs that serve vital purposes and are supported by tax dollars. These anti-obama people hate tax hikes but enjoy the benefits of the federal programs.
Sound like ungrateful punks to me.
Also- Statewide taxes have increased exponentially as several states are on the verge of bankruptcy- NY, CA, MI, etc. etc.-- Why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? Because of too many useless, wasteful and cash hemorrhaging social programs, higher business and corporate tax rates and entitlements passed in legislation by incompetent politicians. Socialism does not work- Raising taxes in the middle of a recession will not work*
What do you mean by "Statewide taxes have increased exponentially?"
Would you show one state tax rate that has increased 'exponentially'?
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Must have been a typo and I do apologize as my fingers can get the best of me at times whilst typing. I am sure it will happen again so try not to get too bent out of shape if it does indeed happen.
However, my point still is valid regarding dumb Americans and their inability to discern the difference between systems of rule.
Oh, so now we're throwing in some old British English to really muck up your grammar. You should really consult a modern style guide so you can understand that the usage of the term "whilst" is frowned upon in writing.
Either way, I thought it pertinent to point out a spelling error while reading a post regarding intelligence.
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Oh, so now we're throwing in some old British English to really muck up your grammar. You should really consult a modern style guide so you can understand that the usage of the term "whilst" is frowned upon in writing.
Either way, I thought it pertinent to point out a spelling error while reading a post regarding intelligence.
Please link me to this imaginary entry in an imaginary writing guide that "frowns upon" the usage of whilst in a sentence.
I guess you never have bothered to read Pinker or Chomsky or even considered Thomas Jefferson and Neology.
Hopefully you will watch this as it is only a few minutes long and it will enrich your understanding.
http://fora.tv/2008/09/12/Steven_Pinker_The_Stuff_of_Thought#chapter_09
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Please link me to this imaginary entry in an imaginary writing guide that "frowns upon" the usage of whilst in a sentence.
I guess you never have bothered to read Pinker or Chomsky or even considered Thomas Jefferson and Neology.
Hopefully you will watch this.
http://fora.tv/2008/09/12/Steven_Pinker_The_Stuff_of_Thought#chapter_09
An american speaking in old British English is akin to an Irishman speaking Gaelic. Outdated.
Times Online Style Guide: "while (not whilst)"
Guardian Style Guide: "while not whilst"
Hansard: the Canadian Parliament record: "while not whilst"
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The Accidental Neologist
A person who creates new words, or makes a point of using them, is called a neologist. In his new book, Presidential Voices, author and noted linguist Allan Metcalf points out that to date, George W. Bush and Thomas Jefferson are front runners among presidential neologists. (Jefferson is said to have originated over 100 new words or phrases.)
Metcalf believes whether we like it or not, we're all accidental neologists - the nature of American English makes it impossible not to be. When we add prefixes and suffixes - such as an ism to a president's name - we become neologists. Thomas Jefferson thought it was not only necessary but desirable to create new words and expressions. In an 1820 letter to his old friend John Adams, Jefferson wrote:
I am a friend to neology. It is the only way to give to a language copiousness and euphony. Without it we should still be held to the vocabulary of Alfred or of Ulphilas [nearly a thousand years earlier]; and held to their state of science also: for I am sure they had no words which could have conveyed the ideas of oxygen, cotyledons, zoophytes, magnetism, electricity, hyaline, and thousands of others expressing ideas not then existing, nor of possible communication in the state of their language. What a language has the French become since the date of their revolution, by the free introduction of new words! The most copious and eloquent in the living world; and equal to the Greek, had not that been regularly modifiable almost ad infinitum….
Dictionaries are but the depositories of words already legitimated by usage. Society is the workshop in which new ones are elaborated. When an individual uses a new word, if ill-formed it is rejected in society, if well-formed, adopted, and, after due time, laid up in the depository of dictionaries. And if, in this process of sound neologisation, our transatlantic brethren shall not choose to accompany us, we may furnish, after the lonians, a second example of colonial dialect improving on its primitive.
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An american speaking in old British English is akin to an Irishman speaking Gaelic. Outdated.
Times Online Style Guide: "while (not whilst)"
Guardian Style Guide: "while not whilst"
Hansard: the Canadian Parliament record: "while not whilst"
Again,
Please consider reading Chomsky and Pinker.
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I dont watch fox news and am not religious ay all. By and large I have libertarian views.
Thats funny, many things you say come DIRECTLY FROM FOX NEWS.. Sometimes word for word..
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Decker, put on your spectacles, unclench your ass cheeks, and try hard to read every word carefully. Normally I dont dig up articles to post here because I have a life- but this took 5 seconds- enjoy.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123923448796803135.html
- From the WSJ 4/9/09
By LESLIE EATON
A free fall in tax revenue is driving more state lawmakers to turn to broad-based tax increases in a bid to close widening budget gaps.
At least 10 states are considering some kind of major increase in sales or income taxes: Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin. California and New York lawmakers already have agreed on multibillion-dollar tax increases that went into effect earlier this year.
Fiscal experts say more states are likely to try to raise tax revenue in coming months, especially once they tally the latest shortfalls from April 15 income-tax filings, often the biggest single source of funds for the 43 states that levy them.
More
Chart: See state-by-state details on tax revenue and budget deficitsThe squeeze is especially severe in states hit hardest by the recession, such as Arizona, where sales-tax revenue has fallen by 10.5%, income-tax collections are down 15.7% this fiscal year, and the government faces a $3.4 billion budget gap next year. But such shortfalls are likely to be widespread; federal income-tax receipts from individuals have dropped more than 15% in the past six months, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates.
While most states so far have managed to cope with dwindling cash by cutting spending and raising fees on things such as fishing licenses and car registrations, that is unlikely to be enough in the new fiscal years that generally begin July 1, many analysts said.
"Income taxes and sales taxes are the go-to taxes when you really need to raise a lot of money," said Donald J. Boyd, who monitors states' fiscal health for the Rockefeller Institute of Government in Albany, N.Y.
Sales-tax revenue has fallen more sharply than at any time in the past 50 years, Mr. Boyd said, and he expects income-tax collections to drop below levels state officials projected -- though the extent of the damage probably won't become clear until May.
Raising taxes is a perilous proposition for lawmakers, who must balance their states' budgets every year. Not only do they face political heat for increasing financial burdens during the recession, but added taxes risk worsening their states' economic problems by, for example, further hobbling consumer spending.
Some lawmakers say they have little choice. "With the size of our budget gap, we are looking at a situation of closing down our courts, releasing prisoners and cutting the school year by as much as a month," said Rep. Peter Buckley, co-chairman of Oregon's joint Ways and Means Committee.
His committee is considering an income-tax increase on high-earners, along with major budget cuts, to help close a projected $4.4 billion budget gap over the next two fiscal years. And things could get worse after a revenue forecast due out May 15, he said, because Oregon's unemployment rate has climbed to 10.8% and the state relies on income-tax revenue.
Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski is likely to support the surcharge, said a spokeswoman , because the state is faced with losing as much as a third of its tax revenue.
Legislators know the increases will be unpopular with residents. "There will be blame, we accept that," Sen. Eileen M. Daily of Connecticut said earlier this month when she and fellow Democrats announced a budget that raises income-tax rates and expands the sales tax to raise more than $3 billion over the next two years. Connecticut Gov. Jodi Rell, a Republican, has said she would veto the plan.
But some governors are proposing tax increases. Delaware Gov. Jack Markell wants to raise the marginal income-tax rate by one percentage point, to 6.95%, on those earning more than $60,000 a year, effective in 2010. His budget plan also includes increases in corporate taxes as well as spending cuts to close a projected $750 million shortfall in a $3 billion budget, said spokesman Joe Rogalsky.
Many states remain determined to balance their budgets by relying solely on spending cuts. That is the case in Indiana, where raising revenue "is really not on the table," said Pat Bauer, the speaker of the state House.
Instead, he hopes to tap the state's rainy-day fund and to produce a budget that covers only one year, rather than the usual two, because plunging revenue makes it impossible to forecast that far in advance.
Tax collections have dropped drastically the past four months, according to Christopher A. Ruhl, director of the Indiana Budget Agency. Income-tax collections, which reflect withholding and estimated tax payments, fell 21% in March compared with last year and are down 7% for the fiscal year.
States have lowered revenue forecasts repeatedly in recent months, yet the estimates still seem to exceed the grim reality. Last week, Pennsylvania officials said total March tax collections were $334.6 million, or 7.9%, short of expectations, due to sharp drops in income and sales taxes and a steep decline in corporate income taxes. For the fiscal year that began July 1, 2008, collections to date are running $1.6 billion less than forecast.
This has led some experts, such as Nicholas Johnson of the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, to predict more legislatures will take up broad-based tax increases as early as May or June. "The problem," he said, "is that they are filling a hole that has gotten a little deeper."
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Yes I do... I own one Business free and clear and the other one I have a business partner...
How does one own a business free and clear? Free and clear means no debt what so ever.
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Yes I do... I own one Business free and clear and the other one I have a business partner...
Thanks for the answer Busted!
Can you please post your definition of Socialism?
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Did I miss something?
Nobody is arguing there should be NO taxes. Basic services such as Police, Fire, Sanitation and the like are essential features of any functioning society- and everyone should contribute their FAIR share.
What people object to is a massive hike on taxes to pay for things that are a waste of money, forcing some people to pay high taxes while others pay none and the concept of "spreading the wealth" and class warfare being espoused by the Obama administration. Being penalized for success is something no President should stand for.
Further, people complain about socialism when 40 million+ illegals who pay no taxes drain the services our tax dollars pay for, while many Americans can't afford to pay for basic necessities. Also, throw in the fact that more than half the country pays little to no taxes at all and it's beyond socialism, its the poor parasites leeching off of society's productive members.
Pointing out a bunch of random government departments which are by and large useful to the country is totally irrelevant to the gripes people have with Obama.
Also- Statewide taxes have increased exponentially as several states are on the verge of bankruptcy- NY, CA, MI, etc. etc.-- Why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? Because of too many useless, wasteful and cash hemorrhaging social programs, higher business and corporate tax rates and entitlements passed in legislation by incompetent politicians. Socialism does not work- Raising taxes in the middle of a recession will not work*
These are all great points, but I think the OP was simply pointing out the hypocrisies practiced by the likes of these Tea Party goons. Yes, awarding failure, outlandish spending and big government all suck, but where were these people when Bush was giving Iraq a blank check, bailing out the banks, and making government bigger than the previous four administrations combined did?