Joined by famed rail enthusiast Vice President Biden, the President releases his vision for high speed rail as funded by the Recovery Act and the coming budget. White House, April 16, 2009. (Public Domain)
Not only does this beg the question of where is the money is coming from and who is going to pay for it....Why is it that when times are good no one thinks of maintaining bridges, tunnels, roadways etc...let alone building highspeed trains, but as soon as things turn financially for the worst all of a sudden there are these projects, ideas, investments that come out of all manner of woodwork???
Why would people settle for highspeed trains when air travel is fast and dirt cheap??
Why not focus on opening up a MANUFACTURING BASE IN AMERICA so that people can get back to work?
What purpose does this high speed train serve? AmTrak has been in service for years and is a FAILURE...
Not only does this beg the question of where is the money is coming from and who is going to pay for it....Why is it that when times are good no one thinks of maintaining bridges, tunnels, roadways etc...let alone building highspeed trains, but as soon as things turn financially for the worst all of a sudden there are these projects, ideas, investments that come out of all manner of woodwork???Amtrak is not a high speed train. To answer all of your concerns, you would have to examine Urban planning Demographics and the Impact of Updated and Technologically Advanced Rail Systems.
Why would people settle for highspeed trains when air travel is fast and dirt cheap??
Why not focus on opening up a MANUFACTURING BASE IN AMERICA so that people can get back to work?
What purpose does this high speed train serve? AmTrak has been in service for years and is a FAILURE...
Amtrak is not a high speed train. To answer all of your concerns, you would have to examine Urban planning Demographics and the Impact of Updated and Technologically Advanced Rail Systems.
I can provide you links if you like, but I sense that you will not read them, so I may not bother.
Educate yourself a bit first on the demographics and then you will be able to see where this is going.
And of course you are an expert in urban demographics???....
Well Adonis you can take your impact of updated and techologically advanced rail systems and shove them up your ass, becasue CHEAP AIR FARES TRUMP ALL THEORIES (including high speed rail service)..... Since there isn't and has never been high speed rail service in america there are NO STUDIES WHICH CAN PROVE ANY OF THESE THEORIES YOU WISH TO PRESENT....all studies (if they do exist) are based on European and Asian studies becasue it is in these countries that high speed rail service exist and has existed for years...also the mindset of Europeans and Asians is entirely different than americans is regard to not only going from place to place by rail line, but also the fact they don't possess that arrogant american mindset of "I must get there and get there NOW!!!'....
Samson, laying the smack down!
Not really, Samson's just showing ignorance...
the north east corridor is one of the worlds most busy stretches of line, the Acela goes at 150 mph in only two parts of the track but is hampered by poor infrastructure and chronic underfunding (this despite a series of upgrades in the 1990's)...it now has (as far as i can remember) as much as a 75% share in all journies between boston and DC...besides this, if you can get a train to go over 200mph (no problems nowadays) any distance under 600miles is faster than by aircraft, so the idea of 'get there and get there now!' is total rubbish...not only that but samson your idea that the 'european' and 'asian' mindset as you call it is different is simply a bad joke...japanese are currently trying to push through maglev which will run at over 300mph between Tokyo and Osaka, the modified TGV in france was clocked at 574kmh in 2007 which by my rough calculation is over 300mph...in britain there is a major push to speed up the rail links to try and replace all the short haul flights (which have brought the runways to capacity...so clearly no culture of get there now there ::) )
In my mind there is no doubt that at least two areas can use HSR to great affect, the NEC and in California between LA and SF...both would be quicker than planes...
Samson is right about the funding, I have no idea where the US is going to find the money from... nevertheless in Cali they just approved $9bn of funding for the HSR (first phase only) which is a start i suppose. HSR make shifts in demographics, it has been proven, France only instigated HSR in the early 80's and most European nations have only just started to implement HSR, so it's not been around for years...but it does have a dramatic impact on behaviour, getting from London to Paris in 2hrs has completely changed the way people think about planning business trips and holidays, even parties!!
Added to this High Speed Rail is fair cheaper to build per mile than a highway, and like i said if (as is planned) the HSR in the US will run at 220mph for all journies under 600miles there really is no comparison with a plane when it comes to travel times...as far as i know it also used something like 300times less CO2 per passenger for those of you that care about that sort of thing.
There are many advantages of high speed train service.Not if it is a Mag-Lev :)
It is faster then flying because security is less intense.
Traveling by train is much more relaxing then flying.
However it usually costs more per ticket because there are so few carriers.
I have been and will likely remain on the fence on this.
By the way CO2 won't likely be reduced because coal fired plants will likely power whatever type of train they use.
Not really, Samson's just showing ignorance...
the north east corridor is one of the worlds most busy stretches of line That's what AmTrak tells you in order to continue to get Government funding for their FAILURE of a railline,
the Acela goes at 150 mph in only two parts Acela could not get to 150 MPH if it wanted to. The years old track system would not tolerate it and neither is the train built for such speed. I rode Acela once and it was a harrowing experience as the train rocked, shook and swayed uncomfortably the whole timeof the track but is hampered by poor infrastructure If Acela was REAL HIGH SPEED, it would have first had to lay all new tracks on a foundation designed for high speed service...as it stand Acela is running on the same tracks as normal Amtrak serviceand chronic underfunding The american government has been funding AmTrak since its inception and AmTrak has NEVER been profitable (this despite a series of upgrades in the 1990's)...it now has (as far as i can remember) as much as a 75% share in all journies between boston and DC...besides this, if you can get a train to go over 200mph (no problems nowadays It is not a problem in Japan or certain European nations, but it is NON-EXISTENT in america) any distance under 600miles is faster than by aircraft Now that is a flat out LIE...excluding delays at an airport the airline is faster and CHEAPER than any train, so the idea of 'get there and get there now!' is total rubbish (I was talking about a mindset not a supposed claim as you are making ...not only that but samson your idea that the 'european' and 'asian' mindset as you call it is different is simply a bad joke You are made a FOOL AGAIN...Europeans and Asians love riding trains and enjoying the scenery and relaxing on the train. To them the trip is just as important as the destination...In america the destination is all that matters...get there and get there now is the order of the day...japanese are currently trying to push through maglev Total waste of time as it requires too much infrastructure to be profitable and is not flexible or changeble once builtwhich will run at over 300mph between Tokyo and Osaka, the modified TGV in france was clocked at 574kmh in 2007 That was a "TEST OF SPEED RUN" the train will never carry passengers at that ratewhich by my rough calculation is over 300mph...in britain there is a major push to speed up the rail links to try and replace all the short haul flights (which have brought the runways to capacity...so clearly no culture of get there now there I never said the Europeans or Asian possessed that get there now culture...I said american do. ::) )
In my mind there is no doubt that at least two areas can use HSR to great affect, the NEC and in California between LA and SF...both would be quicker than planes...Given the terrain of California it will be quicker by plane, but the benefit of train will be in carrying a lot more paassengers at a time not to mention pollution reduction...but what about the seismic issue? High speed trains need STRAIGHT TRACKS even minor earth quakes and bent tracks could spell disaster for a HSR line
Samson is right about the funding, I have no idea where the US is going to find the money from... nevertheless in Cali they just approved $9bn of funding for the HSR (first phase only) 9 Billion of the 9 Billion will be STOLEN first before any infrastructure ever gets going...you obviously don't know americawhich is a start i suppose. HSR make shifts in demographics, it has been proven As I said before there are no studies proving any thing in america adn any studies that do exist are European and Asian who have different mindsets about rail travel, France only instigated HSR in the early 80's and most European nations have only just started to implement HSR, so it's not been around for years France has had the TGV for about thirty years...That is a LONG TIME!!! Japan has had HSR since the 1960s you are talking almost 50 YEARS NOW!!!...but it does have a dramatic impact on behaviour, getting from London to Paris in 2hrs has completely changed the way people think about planning business trips and holidays, even parties!!
Added to this High Speed Rail is fair cheaper to build per mile than a highway, and like i said if (as is planned) the HSR in the US will run at 220mph for all journies under 600miles YEAH RIGHT!!! If america says it will run at 220 MPH expect 150 TOPS and a lot of jostling around...not to mention breakdowns there really is no comparison with a plane when it comes to travel times GEE lemme see a plane is smooth, fast, quiet and the infrastructure already exists...I'd say that is a lot better...and you can believe there will be NO CHEAP FAIRS RIDING A HSR, becasue the investment must pay off and pay off quick...as far as i know it also used something like 300times less CO2 per passenger for those of you that care about that sort of thing.
Not if it is a Mag-Lev :)
(http://www.maglev.net/pictures/jr-maglev.jpg)
I cant see this working in the US to any degree. Also, what is going to power these things? Nuclear plants?Uh, magnetic levitation, hence the name Mag Lev.
Uh, magnetic levitation, hence the name Mag Lev.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation
This will teach you how it works a bit better. Pretty cool eh?
DAMN IT ADONIS ...you can't be tis STUPID for real can you?Watch the video please.
Power is needed to create the magnetic field in order to both lift an propel the train...It actually requires A LOT OF POWER to make this maglev work, so 333386 is correct in asking where is this power going to come from????
I have no idea about this, but I think your point about the planes being a cheaper alternative is largely true from what i can tell.Watch the video.
Additionally, laying all these new tracks is going to hurt the environment no???
Samson i still dont get how you would think a plane would beat a train under 600miles? lets say optimistically you could get to the airport in under half and hour...which in my experience almost never happens, then for domestics you have to check in at least half an hour before...one hour gone and you havent gone anywhere. short haul domestic flights never get to 500mph before having to slow down again, so lets say hour and a half flight for the 600mile trip (again optimistic). then add at least half hour for bagge and getting out of the airport...its over three hours at least the same time as a 200mph train (fine if you dont think they'll go that fast but im being lenient on airport times here)
reformulate it and see how you could get a plane to win out, only domestic airport in the states that i know of that is easily accessible is Regan international in DC, most others are miles out (the one i used was Bradley CT, took nearly an hour to get to, the one i used in in Ft Lauderdale also took at least 45mins)
Samson i have lived in the USA and have used Acela, it does go 150 in two short stretches north of CT...could easily get it to 150mph south of NYC if you just upgraded the overhead powerlines (not that expensive) the problem is CT and metro north prohibiting tilt on the line, as well as a number of railroad crossings which require reduced speed...sort that out and Acela would be running a load faster. On top of that i knew loads of people in the US that used the train (ok only in the northeast), they preferred it to sitting in jams on the highway.
plus from what i remember domestic plane tickets were pretty damn expensive...not saying trains werent either just that in terms of hurting your wallet not much difference at all.
Bullet trains are good but the US doesn't have the money for it now.Of course they do. Obama is encouraging the Private Sector and putting them on the path to make this happen. Don`t forget about the Private sector here.
Of course they do. Obama is encouraging the Private Sector and putting them on the path to make this happen. Don`t forget about the Private sector here.
Didn't he mention this being paid for by the 'recovery package'?I guess you didn`t listen to the whole speech. Public-Private endeavor.
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Samson i still dont get how you would think a plane would beat a train under 600miles? lets say optimistically you could get to the airport in under half and hour...which in my experience almost never happens, then for domestics you have to check in at least half an hour before...one hour gone and you havent gone anywhere. short haul domestic flights never get to 500mph before having to slow down again, so lets say hour and a half flight for the 600mile trip (again optimistic). then add at least half hour for bagge and getting out of the airport...its over three hours at least the same time as a 200mph train (fine if you dont think they'll go that fast but im being lenient on airport times here)I am not bashing you at all in saying that it is impossible to see that a train trip is shorter or as long as a plane trip. Through your example you have left out the hassle of getting yourself and your luggage to the train station. Train stations always exist in the downtown areas of a city. New York's Penn station sits on 34th street...a very crowded area, Philadelphia 30th street station sits in downtown Philadelphia, same with Baltimore, Boston, Washingto DC, LA, SanFransisco etc etc so factor in public transportation or a cab (which are expensive) getting you to the area, factor in haggling with luggage through the terminal to gates, checking in, making sure your luggage gets checked on board with you.. It is almost as much headache as a plane, so no real saving there. None the less I would definitely like to see train travel increase as I love the relaxed environment and much roomier space than a plane, but building a whole HSR infrastructure is costly and will result in high ticket prices until the bulk of the debt is paid off...nowif you were comparing a train to a car...hands down the train would win over a car
reformulate it and see how you could get a plane to win out, only domestic airport in the states that i know of that is easily accessible is Regan international in DC, most others are miles out (the one i used was Bradley CT, took nearly an hour to get to, the one i used in in Ft Lauderdale also took at least 45mins)If time were not an issue...the plane wins. Most trainstation are in downtown areas and even though closer to ones home, they can be harder or more expensive to get to as the taxi meter would run incessantly as you sit in traffic jams trying to get to the station. It is probably easier to get to the airport than the downtown area in every city in america simply because of the congestion...airports tend to exist at the edge of the city if not the city's suburb
Samson i have lived in the USA and have used Acela, it does go 150 in two short stretches north of CT...could easily get it to 150mph south of NYC if you just upgraded the overhead powerlines (not that expensive) the problem is CT and metro north prohibiting tilt on the line, as well as a number of railroad crossings which require reduced speed...sort that out and Acela would be running a load faster. On top of that i knew loads of people in the US that used the train (ok only in the northeast), they preferred it to sitting in jams on the highway. Most of the infrastructure south of New York is poorly maintained and frighteningly old. My last trip on Acela was from Boston to Washington DC (visiting relative in america)..it was a bang up ride all the way and a far cry from the smooth rides on France's TGV or Japan's Bullet...even the monorail at Disney World was a better ride and that thing traveled at a 60 MPH clip between teh Magic Kingdom and Epcot
plus from what I remember domestic plane tickets were pretty damn expensive...not saying trains werent either just that in terms of hurting your wallet not much difference at all. Domestic plane trips in america are pretty cheap everywhere now... which would be fierce competition for any train service.
Amtrak is not a high speed train. To answer all of your concerns, you would have to examine Urban planning Demographics and the Impact of Updated and Technologically Advanced Rail Systems.
I can provide you links if you like, but I sense that you will not read them, so I may not bother.
Educate yourself a bit first on the demographics and then you will be able to see where this is going.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I can't stop laughing.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This board is great.
Not only does this beg the question of where is the money is coming from and who is going to pay for it....Why is it that when times are good no one thinks of maintaining bridges, tunnels, roadways etc...let alone building highspeed trains, but as soon as things turn financially for the worst all of a sudden there are these projects, ideas, investments that come out of all manner of woodwork???
Why would people settle for highspeed trains when air travel is fast and dirt cheap??
Why not focus on opening up a MANUFACTURING BASE IN AMERICA so that people can get back to work?
What purpose does this high speed train serve? AmTrak has been in service for years and is a FAILURE...
Why is it that when times are good no one thinks of maintaining bridges, tunnels, roadways etc...let alone building highspeed trains, but as soon as things turn financially for the worst all of a sudden there are these projects, ideas, investments that come out of all manner of woodwork???