Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Method101 on May 06, 2009, 12:52:40 PM
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Why exactly is there a natural limit? -
scientific explanation please, i know it has somthing to do with hormones but i want more detailed explanation
And what do the steroids do to the body that allows muscle to grow beyond natural barriers?
thanks.
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Iwas toldby a NABBA competitor that you can be HUGE as a natural. Just eat LOTS rest and train like champions
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i would tell you, but you are a gay 4 free queer who disrespects the legendary Nasser.
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you considering taking steroids Method?
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Iwas toldby a NABBA competitor that you can be HUGE as a natural. Just eat LOTS rest and train like champions
how huge is "HUGE"? post a pic
are you still delusional enough to think that you can get to ifbb pro size?
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at my height 20 stone with same b/f as i do now.
i neve rthought or guessed id be ifbb pro size. never once thought this. i am not delusional
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at a certain point more muscle aint beneficial.
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Ther eis no doubt in my mind if i eat and train for 20 more years i can add 40lbs to my frame
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Ther eis no doubt in my mind if i eat and train for 20 more years i can add 40lbs to my frame
I say no way. but good luck :D
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I would guess the gene that translates the inhibitor-hormone "Myostatin" may be a huge factor and ofcourse the body doesn't produce "enough" GH/IGF-1, AAS and slin.
That is one of the explanations..
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Why exactly is there a natural limit? -
scientific explanation please, i know it has somthing to do with hormones but i want more detailed explanation
And what do the steroids do to the body that allows muscle to grow beyond natural barriers?
thanks.
First of all...when I was in my 20's, I didn't have idiots on the internet telling me I couldn't weigh more than 160 cut at 5'9. If I had believed that, I wouldn't made any progress. Most people have no idea what their natural limit is. They haven't trained heavy and hard for 10 straight years or more, eating high protein meals 5 to 6 times a day. They train a year or two and jump right on the juice...or listen to internet Gurus tell them what they can't achieve. As far as the science..steroids take you beyond natural limit because more hormones cause greater protein synthesis and greatly accelerate the recuperation process. A natural guy who starts training in mid teens can continue to make good size gains for many years, but in mid to late 30's, with the natural decline of hormones, it becomes much harder. Having said that, from dietary and supplement changes I am seeing good gains and I'm 46..totally natural.
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how is this not obvious, testosterone....to get more muscle you inject testosterone so you body can hold more muscle.
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Ther eis no doubt in my mind if i eat and train for 20 more years i can add 40lbs to my frame
you have good size and potential,but those are lofty goals dude,in 20 yrs your metabolism could slow down and that net gain will not be all muscle,40 lbs of what?water,fat,muscle,combined.i know your clean but in 1/2 yrs that 40 lbs would be a reality and it would be water/muscle increased thickness.you seem like good guy so good luck.
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I say no way. but good luck :D
2lbs a year MAXXX?
njflex...yea sorry idont mean40lbs ofabsolute muscletissueetc,imeanicouldbe at my current condition but be 40lbs heavier. I know some will be fat and some water and some muscle etc
Hell 40lbs of raw muscle on me would be crazy. thanks for your decency though mate. appreciated.
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Having said that, from dietary and supplement changes I am seeing good gains and I'm 46..totally natural.
Didn't you say you were using hormonal supplements like 6-OXO? May not be very effective but hardly what any sane logical person would say is natural. Taking synthetic hormones, which these are, ain't natural.
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The science is quite simple. Just reverse engineer the "pro physique". The natural body does not produce enough amounts of testosterone, growth hormone etc. Further, anabolic steriods are used for recovery purposes and to aid the bodys ability to assimilate protein. Steriods alone do not increase muscle mass. However, steriods, along with exercise and plenty of quality food, enable the body to produce more muscle mass. It's like the old saying "eat, sleep, train". The natural human body can only do that so much before it becomes burned out and overtrained. Steriods and hgh allow the body to recover much quicker, thereby eliminating the possibility of overtraining.
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Didn't you say you were using hormonal supplements like 6-OXO? May not be very effective but hardly what any sane logical person would say is natural. Taking synthetic hormones, which these are, ain't natural.
I have done cycles of 6-oxo, the over the counter supplement, but since there is no evidence that it raises your hormonal levels into the supraphysiological range, I wouldn't say that it should be considered aan anabolic steroid. Certainly it doesn't give you mass gains..I've seen a harder look to my body and in extremely small doses (1 capsule a day) good libido. Higher doses lower the libido for some reason. I wouldn't call it a Pro-hormone since those will give you un- natural hormone levels. So you're right I should clarify..I'm not natural but I am not on any Pro-hormones (unless you classify 6-oxo as one), steroids, Growth hormone, insulin, thyroid, or clenbuterol.
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Steriods alone do not increase muscle mass.
They most certainly do. Better than training alone in fact.
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For the body,existing is the most important purpose.
If we grow too much and that size is obviously harm for stabilizing the existance of the body,the body will quit growing.
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First of all...when I was in my 20's, I didn't have idiots on the internet telling me I couldn't weigh more than 160 cut at 5'9. If I had believed that, I wouldn't made any progress. Most people have no idea what their natural limit is. They haven't trained heavy and hard for 10 straight years or more, eating high protein meals 5 to 6 times a day. They train a year or two and jump right on the juice...or listen to internet Gurus tell them what they can't achieve. As far as the science..steroids take you beyond natural limit because more hormones cause greater protein synthesis and greatly accelerate the recuperation process. A natural guy who starts training in mid teens can continue to make good size gains for many years, but in mid to late 30's, with the natural decline of hormones, it becomes much harder. Having said that, from dietary and supplement changes I am seeing good gains and I'm 46..totally natural.
BOOM! Point blank - most people don't put in near enough work or consistent eating to know how good they can get naturally. Everyone (nearly everyone) wants to find an easier way!
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For the body,existing is the most important purpose.
If we grow too much and that size is obviously harm for stabilizing the existance of the body,the body will quit growing.
yeah!
what he said
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The mind is the only limiting factor for a natural trainer.
Dare to Dream
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The mind is the only limiting factor for a natural trainer.
Dare to Dream
Quite true.
I am reminded of the story of a boy that was required to carry a calf up a hill every day for so many years and eventually ended up carrying a full grown oxen as they both grew over time and the boy obviously grew up to be a very strong man.
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The science is quite simple. Just reverse engineer the "pro physique". The natural body does not produce enough amounts of testosterone, growth hormone etc. Further, anabolic steriods are used for recovery purposes and to aid the bodys ability to assimilate protein. Steriods alone do not increase muscle mass. However, steriods, along with exercise and plenty of quality food, enable the body to produce more muscle mass. It's like the old saying "eat, sleep, train". The natural human body can only do that so much before it becomes burned out and overtrained. Steriods and hgh allow the body to recover much quicker, thereby eliminating the possibility of overtraining.
haha this is such bullshit. "steroids only makes you recover faster between workouts" hahaha
funny how Dorian yates only trained a muscle every 7 day and still was mr.o 6 times
dumbass
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Steroids only make you stronger
They have no effect on muscle mass
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how is this not obvious, testosterone....to get more muscle you inject testosterone so you body can hold more muscle.
WHAT DOES THE TEST DO INSIDE YOUR BODY TO ALLOW MORE MUSCLE GROWTH?
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WHAT DOES THE TEST DO INSIDE YOUR BODY TO ALLOW MORE MUSCLE GROWTH?
You expect someone to spoon-feed you all this info? One could write a lot of pages detailing the mechanisms (even theoretical). You can find lots with google.
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I would say it's to do with nature - the natural human body simply does not need large amounts of muscular tissue - it has no use for it in the world we live in and our bodies have developed over the centuries so this is the case.
Even if you take steroids and you're trying to build muscle, the human body is like a leaky bucket, full of holes. You have to plug those "holes" with good high quality nutrition and sleep just to maintain what you have built. You have to fight it all the way.
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Ther eis no doubt in my mind if i eat and train for 20 more years i can add 40lbs to my frame
:D
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" What is the science behind why there is a limit to muscle mass for natural? "
gh15 said so. Thats all the science you need.
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we are all hormonised to some extent.
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Very few people ever reach the natural limit, there are so many things you can do in order to gain muscle mass.
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goudy you must be drinking heavily if you believe you can reach 20 stone at the same bf level hahahahahahaha
thats ronnie coleman amount of weight with only a approx 5% more bf hahahahahahahahahaha
not a chance in hell
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You can get big and cut as a natural - you need to have decent genetics and you must lift hard and heavy over a period of time consistently. But you'll still never look like an IFBB pro (or even come close) and when you get to under 10% bodyfat, you'll lose a shitload of muscle - way more than what juicers would lose, cause they have that extra factor in the equation.
IMO competing without juicing is a waste of time, unless you are using it as an excuse to get yourself into shape and don't mind getting beaten by guys who'll outmuscle you big time. And on the flip side of the coin, juicing without having any intention to compete is dumb, unless you want to look super jacked just for the heck of it.
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You can get big and cut as a natural - you need to have decent genetics and you must lift hard and heavy over a period of time consistently. But you'll still never look like an IFBB pro (or even come close) and when you get to under 10% bodyfat, you'll lose a shitload of muscle - way more than what juicers would lose, cause they have that extra factor in the equation.
IMO competing without juicing is a waste of time, unless you are using it as an excuse to get yourself into shape and don't mind getting beaten by guys who'll outmuscle you big time. And on the flip side of the coin, juicing without having any intention to compete is dumb, unless you want to look super jacked just for the heck of it.
Ain't that the truth for high achievement in everything 8)
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Ain't that the truth for high achievement in everything 8)
In part, absolutely - it's a key ingredient, but also not the sole requirement. You also need to have the capacity to achieve whatever it is that you set out to achieve in the first place, as well as a solid gameplan.
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EVERYBODY on this board starts lifting with an intention to manipulate ones genetic ability whether its strenght,size,overall conditioning,or well being.when one hits a plateau or reaches a point at least in there mind there genetic peak then drugs become a next resort.which is fine if there is a goal to which is to be achieved power lifting event,bbing comp,but to juice out of ur mind for yrs with no intention other than to be a beach or gym god then oh well.if u see most pro bbers at least last 15 yrs u will see many started of in a natural show or 2 then to the open classes or higher n.p.c and u could see there size,condition,changes in just a few yrs due to there jump to drugs.
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You expect someone to spoon-feed you all this info? One could write a lot of pages detailing the mechanisms (even theoretical). You can find lots with google.
fucker
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goudy you must be drinking heavily if you believe you can reach 20 stone at the same bf level hahahahahahaha
thats ronnie coleman amount of weight with only a approx 5% more bf hahahahahahahahahaha
not a chance in hell
I am 6'3.5
20lbs could easily go on my legs as i lack quads, hams and calves
The rest can just be distrubuted across mu upper body.
Weight is only a number, I am not claiming to be his MEASUREMENTS only his weight or thereabouts. At 235lbs I have a lot more of my frame to fill out as i lack thickness and legs etc
Also i never knew 275lbs at almost 6'4 with 13-% b/f was unattainable ::)
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I am 6'3.5
20lbs could easily go on my legs as i lack quads, hams and calves
The rest can just be distrubuted across mu upper body.
Weight is only a number, I am not claiming to be his MEASUREMENTS only his weight or thereabouts. At 235lbs I have a lot more of my frame to fill out as i lack thickness and legs etc
Also i never knew 275lbs at almost 6'4 with 13-% b/f was unattainable ::)
try 20% bf and you might get there.
no steroids = no 20 stone of muscle.
i'm just stating facts.
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(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/vanny_64/Chimpanzees.jpg)
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WHAT DOES THE TEST DO INSIDE YOUR BODY TO ALLOW MORE MUSCLE GROWTH?
a few simple things, without going into detail about how these are done
-increase your response to training
-increase the amount of protein synthesis
-decrease cortisol levels
-increase your natural levels of GH & IGF1
-increase ability to burn fat/decrease ability to store fat
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Why exactly is there a natural limit? -
scientific explanation please, i know it has somthing to do with hormones but i want more detailed explanation
And what do the steroids do to the body that allows muscle to grow beyond natural barriers?
thanks.
You obviously never heard of Gakic ::)
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(http://www.ifbb.com/newsletter/images/104/illnew04-1.jpg)
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First of all...when I was in my 20's, I didn't have idiots on the internet telling me I couldn't weigh more than 160 cut at 5'9. If I had believed that, I wouldn't made any progress. Most people have no idea what their natural limit is. They haven't trained heavy and hard for 10 straight years or more, eating high protein meals 5 to 6 times a day. They train a year or two and jump right on the juice...or listen to internet Gurus tell them what they can't achieve. As far as the science..steroids take you beyond natural limit because more hormones cause greater protein synthesis and greatly accelerate the recuperation process. A natural guy who starts training in mid teens can continue to make good size gains for many years, but in mid to late 30's, with the natural decline of hormones, it becomes much harder. Having said that, from dietary and supplement changes I am seeing good gains and I'm 46..totally natural.
you, sir, are 100 % right.
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try 20% bf and you might get there.
no steroids = no 20 stone of muscle.
i'm just stating facts.
tall man = 20 stone is possible.
Just stating facts.
You are not an expert on this field. Your comment is worthless
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tall man = 20 stone is possible.
Just stating facts.
You are not an expert on this field. Your comment is worthless
hahaha i'm clearly more of an expert than you, if you think you will put on another 40 lbs naturally with no body fat hahahaha how delusional are you?
you must have serious body dismorphia, unfortunately fueled by the positive comments during mr getbig.
you are a big guy i.e. frame wise, and are pretty solid thanks to your heavy lifting but there is no way you are going to put on another 40 lbs of muscle on naturally.
no chance at all.
and regardless of you thinking my comment is wortless you can take this post to the bank.
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no one knows what their natural limit is.
Genetic potential and your surroundings interact. nature vs nurture, genotype and fenotype.
Genetic potential can be reached when: everything in one's life is aimed at muscle building: most optimal excersizes, optimal nutrition, optimal recovery time, optimal mindset to endure maximal training intensity, etc. every slip up can diminish the outcome and you fail to achieve your maximum potential.
it's a completely useless concept, better questions are: what is the maximum natural potential of very serious amateur body builder, what is the maximum potential of someone that attends the gym 3 times a week and eats healthy. You'll not get a clear answer then but at least it homes in on a situation that is realistic.
Your genetic potential always differs from your neighbours potential. 5'11" at 200 pounds at 8% bodyfat seems to me like the max for anyone but the most gifted.
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when i say i cant improve anymore why bother to go to the gym again, wheter its true or not, at least i want to keep that illusion alive.
i will lose total interest in training when someone could give me on paper its impossible to make improvements.
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no one knows what their natural limit is.
You can get a very good idea here
http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html
Article
http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html
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(http://www.ifbb.com/newsletter/images/104/illnew04-1.jpg)
Excessively huge Aryan bastard in the background.....
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hahaha i'm clearly more of an expert than you, if you think you will put on another 40 lbs naturally with no body fat hahahaha how delusional are you?
you must have serious body dismorphia, unfortunately fueled by the positive comments during mr getbig.
you are a big guy i.e. frame wise, and are pretty solid thanks to your heavy lifting but there is no way you are going to put on another 40 lbs of muscle on naturally.
no chance at all.
and regardless of you thinking my comment is wortless you can take this post to the bank.
Like i said i could put 20lbs on my legs alone
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Like i said i could put 20lbs on my legs alone
wow
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You can get a very good idea here
http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html
Article
http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html
Don't click, trojans!