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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on May 20, 2009, 05:49:29 AM
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California voters kill budget measures
Only salary curbs survive in a rout of Schwarzenegger's slate of reforms
By Eric Bailey
May 20, 2009
Reporting from Sacramento -- The "big five" elected leaders -- Schwarzenegger and the legislative chieftains from both houses -- are slated to begin closed-door meetings today upon the governor's return from Washington, where he spent election day after casting a last-minute absentee ballot.
On Thursday a small group of Senate and Assembly members will hold the first of what's expected to be a slew of daily public sessions to wrangle over the details of the budget.
Schwarzenegger has called for cuts that would hit every corner of the state. He announced plans to lay off 5,000 of the state's 235,000 workers and has proposed slashing education by up to $5 billion, selling state properties, borrowing $2 billion from local governments and potentially reducing eligibility for healthcare programs.
Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa predicted that the city's budget could take a hit -- but he vowed a fight: "I'm going to do everything I can to protect the city coffers."
Worst-case scenarios also call for the release from state prisons of up to 19,000 illegal immigrants, who would face deportation, and the transfer of up to 23,000 other prisoners to county jails.
In a bid to salt those prospects, Schwarzenegger met privately Tuesday in the U.S. Capitol with members of California's congressional delegation. "We have a major problem in California, and I think if we work together, we can make it through this crisis," he told reporters after attending the White House announcement on tougher vehicle emission standards. "We need assistance. . . . I didn't come for any bailout. We're going to make the necessary cuts."
Afterward, the lawmakers appeared split over the idea of a federal backstop for state borrowing, said Rep. Dan Lungren (R-Gold River). And some saw irony in Schwarzenegger's appearance in Washington while voters decided the fate of his ballot package back home.
"If the governor thought that the initiatives were going to win a smashing victory, he'd be in California right now," said Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Sherman Oaks).
Though he stepped squarely into the spotlight in the days before the election, Schwarzenegger had largely stuck to the wings during the three-month run-up to the vote.
The campaign for the measures hit hard with mailers, TV and radio ads early on, but the message shifted dramatically in the final weeks. Earlier, backers emphasized fiscal responsibility. But in the last stretch, the commercials tilted toward fears that the cash crunch would cut into critical services.
Schwarzenegger helped behind the scenes to garner big contributions for the measure's proponents, who raised about $30 million and outspent foes by nearly 10 to 1. Among the big contributors were businesses hoping to avoid tax increases if state finances slumped further: oil companies, tobacco and alcoholic beverage firms, sports teams and Hollywood studios.
Despite a big advantage in cash and manpower, the campaign failed to gain traction from the start. Polls throughout the race showed all the ballot measures -- except Proposition 1F -- losing badly, as voters expressed equal parts confusion over the package and disdain for the Sacramento politicians who crafted it.
Californians seemed upset partly by Sacramento's call for more money at a time when employment was sagging, retirement accounts were plunging and the average resident was struggling. Others expressed irritationat being called back to the polls just months after a presidential election.
The short campaign also created confusing bedfellows in support and opposition to the ballot measures.
Schwarzenegger joined withliberal Democrats and the California Teachers Assn., the group that helped defeat a 2005 ballot package championed by the governor. Foes of Proposition 1A, meanwhile, included several unions, which didn't like the effect spending limits could have on the state workers they represent, and anti-tax groups that hated its extension of tax increases.
eric.bailey@latimes.com
Times staff writer Phil Willon contributed to this report.
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The people are rising, finally.
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One can only hope that it happens.
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HAHAHA...deport 19,000...yeah right and then import 190,000 right after....l
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if a mexican commits a crime here the should get a bullet in the head, no trial.
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if a mexican commits a crime here the should get a bullet in the head, no trial.
Do you believe that white people are superior to other human beings?
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if a mexican commits a crime here the should get a bullet in the head, no trial.
Lol. I think due process should be suspended and they should immediately be deported. It goes down as an arrest for the BP, so they are earning their pay, but no sense in paying to house and feed these criminals.
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Do you believe that white people are superior to other human beings?
haha, depends on your definition,superior at some things inferior at others. I remember you said we should preserve european culture, you honestly think that's possible if europe becomes majority arab and african, and us majority hispanic? if i have kids i don't want them growing up as a minority in a 3rd world country that we gave away with no fight,makes no sense! you said you are in favor of legal immigration too, do you think the low class mexicans who we get as illegals should be able to gain citizenship legally,even in the 10s of millions?
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Lol. I think due process should be suspended and they should immediately be deported. It goes down as an arrest for the BP, so they are earning their pay, but no sense in paying to house and feed these criminals.
Hell with that. Catch them once, hold them indefinitely until they are positivly identified. If you can't proove their identity, they stay in the tent city forever. Deport their asses. If you catch them again, send them to a camp in the middle of the Arizona desert for awhile. At least 5 years.
Tally up the costs of dealing with these people, and send a bill to Mexico. If Mexico won't pay, pull the revenue out of public assistance rolls.
If the mexican wants to come here to work and make a better life for themselves and their families, that is ok in my book. As long as they play by the rules and make their way in society, good on 'em. Most of them nowdays do not. I can't fathom why the state gives welfare to illegals.
The local paper here has at least 80% mexicans in the police blotter updates every week for DUI, drugs, thievery, rape, assault, etc...
We don't want these people around.
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haha, depends on your definition,superior at some things inferior at others. I remember you said we should preserve european culture, you honestly think that's possible if europe becomes majority arab and african, and us majority hispanic? if i have kids i don't want them growing up as a minority in a 3rd world country that we gave away with no fight,makes no sense! you said you are in favor of legal immigration too, do you think the low class mexicans who we get as illegals should be able to gain citizenship legally,even in the 10s of millions?
I am against illegal immigration. I just wanted to know. If you could have done it would you have enjoyed serving as an SS officer?
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Hell with that. Catch them once, hold them indefinitely until they are positivly identified. If you can't proove their identity, they stay in the tent city forever. Deport their asses. If you catch them again, send them to a camp in the middle of the Arizona desert for awhile. At least 5 years.
Tally up the costs of dealing with these people, and send a bill to Mexico. If Mexico won't pay, pull the revenue out of public assistance rolls.
If the mexican wants to come here to work and make a better life for themselves and their families, that is ok in my book. As long as they play by the rules and make their way in society, good on 'em. Most of them nowdays do not. I can't fathom why the state gives welfare to illegals.
The local paper here has at least 80% mexicans in the police blotter updates every week for DUI, drugs, thievery, rape, assault, etc...
We don't want these people around.
The worst thing is their criminal children become citizens on the spot when born here even though parents are illegal, such a stupid freaking law, 3/4 of the hispanic population growth is from births.
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I am against illegal immigration. I just wanted to know. If you could have done it would you have enjoyed serving as an SS officer?
What kind of immigrant are you?
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What kind of immigrant are you?
I am glad the Tea Parties got this ball rolling.
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I am against illegal immigration. I just wanted to know. If you could have done it would you have enjoyed serving as an SS officer?
you didn't answer my questions. Hitler wasn't a wise military leader and in hindsight NO of course I wouldn't want to be in the SS, they lost.
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you didn't answer my questions. Hitler wasn't a wise military leader and in hindsight NO of course I wouldn't want to be in the SS since they lost.
In their defense there were some pretty bad calls in that game.
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What kind of immigrant are you?
dan hates the US, he is too superior for us.
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you didn't answer my questions. Hitler wasn't a wise military leader and in hindsight NO of course I wouldn't want to be in the SS, they lost.
Is that the only reason? Do you believe Hitler was an ethical and moral man?
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Is that the only reason? Do you believe Hitler was an ethical and moral man?
i don't think any strong leader can be ethical or moral, especially during war time. tough decisions need to be made. do I think he was less ethical than the allies or communists? no.
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dan hates the US, he is too superior for us.
I don't hate the US by any means, in fact I love Hereford.
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i don't think any strong leader can be ethical or moral, especially during war time. tough decisions need to be made. do I think he was less ethical than the allies or communists? no.
I suppose. Do you believe that ethnic cleansing took place in Germany and other countries under the direction of Germany?
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i don't think any strong leader can be ethical or moral, especially during war time. tough decisions need to be made. do I think he was less ethical than the allies or communists? no.
Show me the treaty the USA violated in WW2 like Hitler did by invading Poland?
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In their defense there were some pretty bad calls in that game.
I love you!!!!!!
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I suppose. Do you believe that ethnic cleansing took place in Germany and other countries under the direction of Germany?
I am against any sort of ethnic cleansing,I wasn't there but it sure does seem the holocaust has been exaggerated in a lot of ways, obviously the history books are written by the victors. i think what happened to the ukrainians which we very rarely hear about is at least as bad or worse than what happened to the jews in the official story of the holocaust which is crammed into our heads every day on TV, in school and a new hollywood movie every week. my feeling is there is too much focus on the holocaust and not enough on other crimes against humanity, do you disagree?
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I am against any sort of ethnic cleansing,I wasn't there but it sure does seem the holocaust has been exaggerated in a lot of ways, obviously the history books are written by the victors. i think what happened to the ukrainians which we very rarely hear about is at least as bad or worse than what happened to the jews in the official story of the holocaust which is crammed into our heads every day on TV, in school and a new hollywood movie every week. my feeling is there is too much focus on the holocaust and not enough on other crimes against humanity, do you disagree?
I would agree with that. I nonetheless think most details are factual, but of course there has been a group of people, mainly Zionist Jews who have tried to turn it into a profitable industry. People like Finkelstein have written about this.
The thing about that time is that I wonder if I had been there in Germany at the time, how many of my German friends would have gone along with it and just how quickly I would have been killed? Anyway, not something I think about too much, had to listen to it for nigh 20 years. I say we just all eat Mexican food and be happy.
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Show me the treaty the USA violated in WW2 like Hitler did by invading Poland?
Totally irrelevant. Read this.
March Madness, 1939
by Pat Buchanan
On Sept. 1, 1939, Hitler's panzers smashed into Poland. Two days later, an anguished Neville Chamberlain declared war, the most awful war in all of history.
Was the war inevitable? No. No war is inevitable until it has begun. Was it a necessary war? Hearken to Churchill:
"One day, President Roosevelt told me that he was asking publicly for suggestions about what the war should be called. I said at once, 'The Unnecessary War.' There never was a war more easy to stop than that which has just wrecked what was left of the world ... ."
But if the war need not have happened, what caused it?
Let us go back to Munich.
On Sept. 30, 1938, at Munich, Chamberlain signed away the Sudetenland rather than fight to keep 3.5 million Germans under a Czech rule imposed upon them at the Paris peace conference in violation of Wilson's principle of self-determination.
Why did Britain not fight?
Because Britain had no alliance with Prague and Chamberlain did not "give two hoots" who ruled the Sudetenland. Also, Britain had no draft, no divisions to send to France, no Spitfires, no support from America or her dominions, no ally save France, who had been told that, if war came, the United States would not deliver the planes France had purchased.
U.S. neutrality laws forbade it.
In his meetings with Chamberlain, Hitler had warned that Poland and Hungary would also be entering claims for ancestral lands ceded to the Czechs at Paris in 1919.
Thus, after Munich, Warsaw had seized coal-rich Teschen, which held tens of thousands of Poles. Hungary, in the "Vienna Award" of Nov. 2, 1938, got back lands in Slovakia and Ruthenia where Hungarians were the majority and Budapest had ruled before 1919.
Neither Britain nor France resisted these border revisions.
Came then March 1939, when Czechoslovakia began to crumble.
On March 10, to crush a Slovakian push for independence, Czech President Emil Hacha ousted Slovak Prime Minister Father Tiso, occupied Bratislava and installed a pro-Prague regime.
On March 11, Tiso fled to Vienna and appealed to Berlin.
On March 13, Tiso met Hitler, who told him that if he did not declare independence immediately, Germany would not interfere with Hungary's re-annexation of Slovakia. Budapest was moving troops to the border.
On March 14, Slovakia declared independence. Ruthenia followed, dissolving what was left of Czechoslovakia.
Adm. Horthy, told by Hitler he could re-annex Ruthenia but must keep his hands off Slovakia, occupied Ruthenia.
Hacha now asked to meet with Hitler to get the same guarantee of independence Slovakia had gotten. But Hitler bullied Hacha into making the Czech remnant a protectorate of Germany.
Thus, six months after Munich, the Germans of Czechoslovakia were where they wished to be, under German rule. The Poles were under Polish rule. The Hungarians were under Hungarian rule. And the Slovaks were under Slovak rule in their new nation.
But 500,000 Ruthenians were back under Budapest, and 7 million Czechs were back under German rule -- this time Berlin, not Vienna.
Ethnonationalism had torn Czechoslovakia apart as it had the parent Hapsburg Empire. Yet, no vital British interest was imperiled.
And though Hitler had used brutal Bismarckian diplomacy, not force, Chamberlain was humiliated. The altarpiece of his career, the Munich accord, was now an object of mockery.
Made a fool of by Hitler, baited by his backbenchers, goaded by Lord Halifax, facing a vote of no confidence, on March 31, 1939, Chamberlain made the greatest blunder in British diplomatic history. He handed an unsolicited war guarantee to the Polish colonels who had just bitten off a chunk of Czechoslovakia.
Lunacy, raged Lloyd George, who was echoed by British leaders and almost every historian since.
With the British Empire behind it, Warsaw now refused even to discuss a return of Danzig, the Baltic town, 95 percent German, which even Chamberlain thought should be returned.
Hitler did not want a war with Poland. Had he wanted war, he would have demanded the return of the entire Polish Corridor taken from Germany in 1919. He wanted Danzig back and Poland as an ally in his anti-Comintern Pact. Nor did he want war with a Britain he admired and always saw as a natural ally.
Nor did he want war with France, or he would have demanded the return of Alsace.
But Hitler was out on a limb with Danzig and could not crawl back.
Repeatedly, Hitler tried to negotiate Danzig. Repeatedly, the Poles rebuffed him. Seeing the Allies courting Josef Stalin, Hitler decided to cut his own deal with the detested Bolsheviks and settle the Polish issue by force.
Though Britain had no plans to aid Poland, no intention of aiding Poland and would do nothing to aid Poland -- Churchill would cede half that nation to Stalin and the other half to Stalin's stooges -- Britain declared war for Poland.
The most awful war in all of history followed, which would bankrupt Britain, bring down her empire and bring Stalin's Red Army into Prague, Berlin and Vienna. But Hitler was dead and Germany in ashes.
Cost: 50 million lives. "But 'twas a famous victory."
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Its not irrelevent. You said we were all the same in WW2. That is nonsense. Hitler and Stalin were like Godzilla & King Kong fighting each other. Both were ruthless murders and killers.
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So hitlers' mein kampf was a lie too where he said the german people needed more "living space"???
He did not want war with Russia either right???
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I would agree with that. I nonetheless think most details are factual, but of course there has been a group of people, mainly Zionist Jews who have tried to turn it into a profitable industry. People like Finkelstein have written about this.
The thing about that time is that I wonder if I had been there in Germany at the time, how many of my German friends would have gone along with it and just how quickly I would have been killed? Anyway, not something I think about too much, had to listen to it for nigh 20 years. I say we just all eat Mexican food and be happy.
I wish I love mexican food :'( I'm sitting at 14% BF right now btw, got tested in the gym today
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Its not irrelevent. You said we were all the same in WW2. That is nonsense. Hitler and Stalin were like Godzilla & King Kong fighting each other. Both were ruthless murders and killers.
I was referring to crimes against humanity committed by the allies such as the bombing of dresden
http://wiki.majorityrights.com/holocaust/dresden
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I was referring to crimes against humanity committed by the allies such as the bombing of dresden
http://wiki.majorityrights.com/holocaust/dresden
Ok. But this may sound crass, but it was during the war. Hitler started his shit before the break out of WW2 and Stalin even before that with the starvation of millions of people.
On par, I think Stalin probably was worse, because he not only executed people like hitler did, but did far worse on a far broader scale within his own country.
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I wish I love mexican food :'( I'm sitting at 14% BF right now btw, got tested in the gym today
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Ok. But this may sound crass, but it was during the war. Hitler started his shit before the break out of WW2 and Stalin even before that with the starvation of millions of people.
On par, I think Stalin probably was worse, because he not only executed people like hitler did, but did far worse on a far broader scale within his own country.
At the end of the war when germany was in ashes to be specific...so bombing a totally civilian city of no military importance killing 100s of thousands mostly women and children is ok cause it's during a war?
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At the end of the war when germany was in ashes to be specific...so bombing a totally civilian city of no military importance killing 100s of thousands mostly women and children is ok cause it's during a war?
This was an eye for an eye and definately grizzly.
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This was an eye for an eye and definately grizzly.