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Title: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: kcballer on May 22, 2009, 01:05:54 PM
A survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that white evangelical Christians are more likely to support torture than people who rarely or never attend religious services.

The survey said that 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants say that the use of torture against suspected terrorists can be often or sometimes justified in order to gain important information.

When asked the same question, 40 percent of the "religiously unaffiliated" say torture can be often or sometimes justified.

This is for Bezerk Fury and all his Muslim hating threads.  If this were a Muslim survey you'd be all over it but crickets when it's a christian one.  Some balanced view you have there. 
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Hedgehog on May 22, 2009, 01:25:17 PM
A survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that white evangelical Christians are more likely to support torture than people who rarely or never attend religious services.

The survey said that 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants say that the use of torture against suspected terrorists can be often or sometimes justified in order to gain important information.

When asked the same question, 40 percent of the "religiously unaffiliated" say torture can be often or sometimes justified.

This is for Bezerk Fury and all his Muslim hating threads.  If this were a Muslim survey you'd be all over it but crickets when it's a christian one.  Some balanced view you have there. 


Lets assume that Christianity is all it claims to be - a religion of love.

The whole deal with turning the other cheek, loving your enemy et al.

If this survey is true, and Pew aren't known to screw with the surveys, a lot of Christians aren't getting the Christian message.

I found a link to a site run by a Christian fellow who discusses the "pacifist" teachings of the Bible.

http://www.loveyourenemies.org/
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: 24KT on May 22, 2009, 09:02:17 PM

Lets assume that Christianity is all it claims to be - a religion of love.

The whole deal with turning the other cheek, loving your enemy et al.

If this survey is true, and Pew aren't known to screw with the surveys, a lot of Christians aren't getting the Christian message.

I found a link to a site run by a Christian fellow who discusses the "pacifist" teachings of the Bible.

http://www.loveyourenemies.org/

When you hold yourself above others and believe all your actions to be inspired or ordained from above,
you lose your moral compass. Your every inclination, no matter how base becomes true north.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: tonymctones on May 22, 2009, 09:09:57 PM
When you hold yourself above others and believe all your actions to be inspired or ordained from above,
you lose your moral compass. Your every inclination, no matter how base becomes true north.
who said that christians hold themselves above others?
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: 24KT on May 22, 2009, 09:14:04 PM
who said that christians hold themselves above others?

Many do... in the condescending, judgemental way they have of pointing their little fingers at people calling them sinners
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: tonymctones on May 22, 2009, 09:15:46 PM
Many do... in the condescending, judgemental way they have of pointing their little fingers at people calling them sinners
LOL some not many jag some just like some of the left points their fingers and calls ppl homophobes, bigots and racist....
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 22, 2009, 09:25:08 PM
evangelical christians... This doesn't shock me much.  I'd expect this.  I see the conversation went on as though the topic only addressed Christians...  The evangelical movement was taken over by political forces a long time ago--primarily zionists.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: tonymctones on May 22, 2009, 09:36:27 PM
evangelical christians... This doesn't shock me much.  I'd expect this.  I see the conversation went on as though the topic only addressed Christians...  The evangelical movement was taken over by political forces a long time ago--primarily zionists.
good catch hugo i missed that...i dont take a literal view of the bible like some ppl so my views differ from others this does kinda suprise me though as you would think that as literal a view as they take the bible they would be about turning the other cheek etc...Im no bible scholar but im sure there are passages in there that lend itself to doing things that are necessary to protect the herd...
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 22, 2009, 10:27:44 PM
good catch hugo i missed that...i dont take a literal view of the bible like some ppl so my views differ from others this does kinda suprise me though as you would think that as literal a view as they take the bible they would be about turning the other cheek etc...Im no bible scholar but im sure there are passages in there that lend itself to doing things that are necessary to protect the herd...
thanks,... the evangelical movement was largely taken over to support the Zionist movement over a hundred years ago.  The view of the fledgling Zionists at the time was that the Christians had become to paganized.  I have this from two sources, one from a Zionist author writing in the 30's.  They felt at the time that the Christian movement would not be sympathetic toward a Zionist cause because of what they called the paganization of Christianity.  So the goal was to establish a friendly ground and support structure in America and the easy target at the time happened to be through the doors of Evangelicals.  Even today you will notice that the Christian organizations that run pro Zionist ads and aid programs for Israel are primarily if not entirely Evangelical based.

I know the terms Pagan and Christian might cause some WTF, but those are the terms they used at the time.  They really felt Christians had adjusted Christianity to be in line with their pagan history and that was not of use to them.  So they sought to change Christianity to a religion sympathetic to their cause.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: loco on May 23, 2009, 05:24:50 AM
I and my family have always been evangelical Christians.  We DO NOT agree with torture.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2009, 05:28:31 AM
I and my family have always been evangelical Christians.  We DO NOT agree with torture.

I am not a non-practicing catholic who has no problem with "torture" under a ticking time bomb scenario and there exists the possibility of thousands of INNOCENT people being murdered.

To me, the life of the terrorist and murderer is not the same as the innocent victim.  In my mind, it takes a warped sense of "morality" to equate the two.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: 240 is Back on May 23, 2009, 05:43:26 AM
lots of religious people support war for stealing oil.

As long as it's not the "only" reason, they're cool with it.

Imagine getting to Heaven one day, staring at St. Peter and the lost souls of smart bombs we sent, and trying to convince them a pre-emptive war for bases and oil was more important than those lives.

Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 05:56:08 AM
lots of religious people support war for stealing oil.

As long as it's not the "only" reason, they're cool with it.

Imagine getting to Heaven one day, staring at St. Peter and the lost souls of smart bombs we sent, and trying to convince them a pre-emptive war for bases and oil was more important than those lives.



LOL

Religious people tend to be the biggest hypocrites on the planet, violent, intolerant and power hungry. A shame our species hasn't grown out of it.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: loco on May 23, 2009, 05:59:28 AM
lots of religious people support war for stealing oil.

As long as it's not the "only" reason, they're cool with it.

Imagine getting to Heaven one day, staring at St. Peter and the lost souls of smart bombs we sent, and trying to convince them a pre-emptive war for bases and oil was more important than those lives.



Not when those religious people are the ones getting stuff stolen from them.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: loco on May 23, 2009, 06:01:08 AM
LOL

Religious people tend to be the biggest hypocrites on the planet, violent, intolerant and power hungry. A shame our species hasn't grown out of it.

I disagree.  There are hypocrites everywhere on the planet.  No group is more hypocrite than the other.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 06:01:27 AM
Not when those religious people are the ones getting stuff stolen from them.

Huh? repeat please? What do you mean?
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 06:03:03 AM
I disagree.  There are hypocrites everywhere on the planet.  No group is more hypocrite than the other.

No, 'pious' Christians who tell people what they can smoke, who they can fuck and that mythology should be taught in place of science who then say, lets go bomb people and steal their resources...that is about as hypocritical as you can get.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: loco on May 23, 2009, 06:07:33 AM
No, 'pious' Christians who tell people what they can smoke, who they can fuck and that mythology should be taught in place on science who then say, lets go bomb people and steal their resources...that is about as hypocritical as you can get.

That's not Christian or religious.  That's just political, and what politicians want you both atheists and theists alike to believe.  If you really think it's Christian or religious, then you fell for it.  There are many Christians in third world countries around the world.  You believe they think about bombing other countries?
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 06:09:21 AM
That's not Christian or religious.  That's just political, and what politicians want you both atheists and theists alike to believe.  If you really think it's Christian or religious, then you fell for it.  There are many Christians in third world countries around the world.  You believe they think about bombing other countries?

I am talking about the prototypical American sort that we all know and (don't) love.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2009, 06:12:08 AM
I am talking about the prototypical American sort that we all know and (don't) love.

And how are they any different from the irreligious left who does the same thing????
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 06:21:00 AM
And how are they any different from the irreligious left who does the same thing????

They do similar things but if you look at it in the details, what the religious right wants is more restrictive to personal behaviour than what many lefties want. What is more restrictive? Saying you can smoke a joint in the privacy of your home or saying you should go to jail for it?
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: loco on May 23, 2009, 06:24:20 AM
They do similar things but if you look at it in the details, what the religious right wants is more restrictive to personal behaviour than what many lefties want. What is more restrictive? Saying you can smoke a joint in the privacy of your home or saying you should go to jail for it?

That's not what Ron Paul wants, and he is a devout Christian and an American.  And there are many Christians who think like Ron Paul.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 06:34:03 AM
That's not what Ron Paul wants, and he is a devout Christian and an American.  And there are many Christians who think like Ron Paul.

Not many Christians like RP keep their religion to themselves. Do you know of many?
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: loco on May 23, 2009, 06:36:45 AM
Not many Christians like RP keep their religion to themselves. Do you know of many?

Yes.  Not in politics.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2009, 06:53:16 AM
They do similar things but if you look at it in the details, what the religious right wants is more restrictive to personal behaviour than what many lefties want. What is more restrictive? Saying you can smoke a joint in the privacy of your home or saying you should go to jail for it?

The left does it with your economic freedom which is just as important.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Fury on May 23, 2009, 07:02:22 AM
A survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that white evangelical Christians are more likely to support torture than people who rarely or never attend religious services.

The survey said that 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants say that the use of torture against suspected terrorists can be often or sometimes justified in order to gain important information.

When asked the same question, 40 percent of the "religiously unaffiliated" say torture can be often or sometimes justified.

This is for Bezerk Fury and all his Muslim hating threads.  If this were a Muslim survey you'd be all over it but crickets when it's a christian one.  Some balanced view you have there. 

What's this have to do with me? I'm an atheist. All religions are fucked up. The only difference between the rest of them and Islam is that there aren't millions of Christians/Jews/Buddhists running around chopping peoples heads off and blowing shit up for happening to be from the West. They aren't constantly blowing shit up because some book says to. Most of them have moved past that point. Meanwhile, thousands of Muslim clerics around the world are telling their millions of followers to go out and fuck shit up.

There aren't dozens of videos on the internet of Christians beheading people. Ever see the video of the Japanese contractor who got beheaded in Iraq? They decided they would cut halfway through his neck and then let him sit there for 20 seconds suffocating on his own blood before finishing the job. They are ANIMALS. Yet I'm supposed to feel bad when they simulate drowning on one of these guys, fully intending to make sure he lives through it? You people really need to watch some of these videos as you have no clue. ::)

People can cry about morals all the want, but in the end, they don't mean shit. You do what you need to do to ensure the survival of your citizens. I couldn't care less about whether waterboarding is torture or not. I care about its effectiveness. If it's not effective (which signs point to this being the case), then there is no point in doing it.

If Christians were running around pulling this shit all the time, I'd be pissed at them too. As it stands, they aren't.

For example, here's a list of Islamic extremist attacks in just the last 10 days. TEN DAYS!!!!!!!!! How many more have gone unreported in that time span? Look at all the women, children and innocent people killed. Notice the majority of dead are civilians.

2009.05.22     Israel     Qaryut     1     0     al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade takes credit for shooting a Jewish settler in the back.
2009.05.22    Pakistan    Peshawar    10    75    Ten people are killed when religious fundamentalists detonate one of their own outside a cinema.
2009.05.21    Philippines    Zamboanga    3    5    Islamists are suspected in the brutal ambush of a civilian vehicle that leaves three dead.
2009.05.21    Iraq    Mosul    2    1    Suspected Sunni extremists storm a home and kill a woman and her daughter.
2009.05.21    Iraq    Kirkuk    8    7    Eight Iraqis are blown to bits by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2009.05.21    Pakistan    Jandola    9    25    A Holy Warrior detonates himself near a bazaar, killing nine people.
2009.05.20    Algeria    Medea    5    1    Five local policemen are killed in an ambush by armed Islamic fundamentalists.
2009.05.20    Thailand    Pattani    2    0    Two elderly women are shot off their motorbike, then set on fire by Muslim militants.
2009.05.20    Afghanistan    Kabul    2    0    Two Americans are murdered in a Mujahideen bombing.
2009.05.20    Iraq    Baghdad    40    83    Sunni bomber take out at least forty Shias with a car bomb near a packed restaurant.
2009.05.20    Somalia    Mogadishu    3    0    A 6-year-old child sleeping in his home is among three civilains murdered in an Islamic attack.
2009.05.19    Thailand    Yala    1    0    Three Mujahideen murder an elementary school teacher.
2009.05.19    Thailand    Pattani    2    0    Islamists ambush and kill two rangers.
2009.05.19    Iraq    Taji    2    5    Terrorists kill two Iraqis with a roadside bomb.
2009.05.18    Pakistan    Mohmand    2    0    Two hostages held by the Tehrik-e-Taliban are executed and left by a roadside.
2009.05.18    Philippines    Basilan    1    0    The beheaded body of a 61-year-old Christian farmer is found following his abduction by Islamic militants.
2009.05.18    Afghanistan    Kandahar    1    0    A Taliban machine-gun attack leaves one person dead.
2009.05.18    Thailand    Narathiwat    1    0    A 39-year-old civilian is gunned down by Muslim terrorists while on his way to play soccer.
2009.05.17    Iraq    Baghdad    4    10    Four innocents are blown up at a coffee shop by Religion of Peace bombers.
2009.05.17    Afghanistan    Helmand    6    0    Six local police are murdered in a Sunni bomb attack.
2009.05.17    Iraq    Mosul    9    3    Nine Iraqis are taken down by Islamic terrorists.
2009.05.16    Chechnya    Grozny    4    5    Four people are killed by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2009.05.16    Pakistan    Peshawar    11    31    Women and children are among those murdered when Islamists bomb a commercial district near an Internet cafe.
2009.05.16    Iraq    Baghdad    1    2    A child is killed when Muslim terrorists lob a mortar into a family home.
2009.05.16    Iraq    Baghdad    4    12    Jihad bombers take our four Iraqis in two attacks.
2009.05.15    Iraq    Mandali    1    0    A young woman is the victim of a suspected honor killing.
2009.05.15    Iraq    Mosul    1    0    A Christian is kidnapped and beheaded.
2009.05.15    Afghanistan    Khost    3    4    Sunni terrorists strike a mosque with a rocket, killing three civilians.
2009.05.15    India    Kupwara    2    0    Mujahideen shoot two civilians to death in their home.
2009.05.15    India    Kupwara    1    0    A park ranger is kidnapped and beheaded by Islamic extremists.
2009.05.14    Pakistan    Miranshah    3    4    Three local soldiers are murdered by Taliban roadside bombers.
2009.05.14    Iraq    Baqubah    3    0    al-Qaeda gunmen shoot two men and their mother to death inside their home.
2009.05.14    Somalia    Mogadishu    26    98    Twenty-six civilians are killed in a series of street battles as al-Shabaab Islamists fight for Allah.
2009.05.14    Afghanistan    Ghazni    1    1    A Taliban attack leaves a security guard dead.
2009.05.13    Pakistan    Mingora    5    0    Five more people are beheaded by Sunni radicals.
2009.05.13    Iraq    Baghdad    3    1    A young boy is among three Iraqis murdered by Mujahid gunmen.
2009.05.13    Chechnya    Vedeno    3    0    Islamic bombers take out three people.
2009.05.12    Afghanistan    Khost    7    13    Four religious extremists blow themselves up, killing seven laborers.
2009.05.12    Pal. Auth.    Ramallah    1    0    A 30-year-old woman, and mother of seven, is stabbed to death by her nephew in an honor killing.
2009.05.12    Pakistan    Nishat Chowk    1    0    The Taliban murder a rival mosque leader.
2009.05.12    Iraq    Kirkuk    7    18    A child suicide bomber, recruited by al-Qaeda, takes out seven Iraqis along a city street.
2009.05.12    Pakistan    Suhrab Khan    6    0    Islamists behead six people.
2009.05.12    Iraq    Baqubah    1    0    A 13-year-old girl is kidnapped and brutally murdered by al-Qaeda.
2009.05.12    Pakistan    Swat    7    0    Seven civilians are shot to death by the Taliban on suspicion betraying Islam.
2009.05.11    Iraq    Mosul    1    0    Muslim kidnappers murder a 5-year-old Christian boy.
2009.05.11    Iraq    Mosul    3    7    Three Iraqis are killed in two Mujahid bombings.
2009.05.11    Daghestan    Kizilyurt    1    3    A policeman is gunned down in a marketplace by suspected Islamic separatists.
2009.05.11    Pakistan    Peshawar    10    12    A 6-year-old girl is among ten locals massacred by a suicide car bomber.
2009.05.11    Somalia    Mogadishu    2    3    Islamists lob a mortar shell into a cafe, ending the lives of two patrons.
2009.05.10    Afghanistan    Helmand    7    20    Two suicide bombers take out seven civilians in an attack on a taxi stand.
2009.05.10    Afghanistan    Zabul    3    0    Three civilians are blown apart in a Jihad bombing.
2009.05.10    Somalia    Mogadishu    39    60    Islamists pour mortars and machine-gun fire into eliminating the 'enemies of Allah.' At least thirty-nine people are killed, including civilians at a mosque.
2009.05.10    Iraq    Taji    2    0    Suspected al-Qaeda kill two innocent Iraqis in a roadside attack.
2009.05.10    Afghanistan    Nangarhar    8    0    Eight construction crew workers are murdered in a Taliban bomb blast.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Deicide on May 23, 2009, 08:15:31 AM
The left does it with your economic freedom which is just as important.

I never denied that but that is the reason I reject both equally and besides we only really have one party in the USA, to pretend otherwise would be a joke.
Title: Re: Evangelical Christians agree with torture...
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2009, 11:28:02 AM
Is there a difference between a Christian and an "Evangelical Christian"? 

BTW, my pastor was preaching a sermon a couple months ago and said if waterboarding will save American lives, then "waterboard them!"  Loved it.   :)