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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: loco on June 09, 2009, 10:11:26 AM
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Tue Jun 9, 2009
He’s done it while talking about abortion and the Middle East, even the economy. The references serve at once as an affirmation of his faith and a rebuke against a rumor that persists for some to this day.
As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches — something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings, even though Bush’s Christian faith was at the core of his political identity.
In his speech Thursday in Cairo, Obama told the crowd that he is a Christian and mentioned the Islamic story of Isra, in which Moses, Jesus and Mohammed joined in prayer.
At the University of Notre Dame on May 17, Obama talked about the good works he’d seen done by Christian community groups in Chicago. “I found myself drawn — not just to work with the church but to be in the church,” Obama said. “It was through this service that I was brought to Christ.”
And a month before that, Obama mentioned Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount at Georgetown University to make the case for his economic policies. Obama retold the story of two men, one who built his house on a pile of sand and the other who built his on a rock: “We cannot rebuild this economy on the same pile of sand,” Obama said. “We must build our house upon a rock.”
More than four months into the Obama presidency, a picture is emerging of a chief executive who is comfortable with public displays of his religion — although he has also paid tribute to other faiths and those he called “nonbelievers” during his inaugural address.
Obama’s invocation of the Christian Messiah is more overt than Americans heard in the public rhetoric of Bush in his time in the White House — even though Bush’s victories were powered in part by evangelical voters.
“I don’t recall a single example of Bush as president ever saying, ‘Jesus’ or ‘Christ,’” said Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Christian group Family Research Council. “This is different.”
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To Perkins, Obama’s overtly Christian rhetoric is a welcome development from an administration that he largely disagrees with on the issues, though Perkins sees a political motive behind it, as well.
“I applaud that. It gives people a sense of comfort,” Perkins said. “But I think it’s a veneer, a facade that covers over a lot of policies that are anti-Christian.” That includes, in his view, Obama’s stance in favor of abortion rights.
The Rev. Barry Lynn, the executive director of the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State, doesn’t like the trend with Obama: “I don’t need to hear politicians tell me how religious they are,” Lynn said. “Obama in a very overt way does what Bush tended to do in a more covert way.”
Obama’s public embrace of his Christianity so far has not included choosing a church in the capital, and he has attended Sunday services only once since his election, on Easter Sunday. The White House said at the time the family was still looking for a spiritual home in Washington.
But inside his White House, Obama has placed his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships — run by a 26-year old Pentecostal minister named Josh DuBois — under the White House’s Domestic Policy Council. That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions.
Also, religious leaders meet with White House policymakers on a regular basis — and help to shape decisions on matters large and small. A White House speechwriter working on Obama’s Egypt speech called several faith leaders to get their thoughts. After the White House unveiled its budget in April, officials convened a two-hour conference call with religious leaders to discuss how the spending plan would help the poor.
“President Obama is a committed Christian, and he’s being true to who he is,” DuBois told POLITICO. “There’s an appropriate role for faith in public life, and his remarks reflect that. And they also reflect a spirit of inclusivity that recognizes that we are a nation with a range of different religious backgrounds and traditions.”
Still, it is ironic that Obama, who rode a wave of young, Internet-savvy and more secular voters to the White House, would more freely invoke the name of Jesus Christ than did Bush.
In his first year as president, Bush mentioned “Jesus” or “Christ” a handful of times — but only in innocuous contexts, such as his Easter proclamation, a Christmas message and a proclamation on “Salvation Army Week.”
To be sure, Bush talked openly about his faith. On the day of his second inauguration as governor of Texas, Bush reportedly told Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, “I believe that God wants me to be president.” As a Texas governor running for president, Bush declared in a presidential debate that the philosopher he most identified with was Jesus.
And in an interview for Bob Woodward’s 2004 book “Plan of Attack,” Bush was asked whether he’d talked to his father, the President George H.W. Bush, about the decision to invade Iraq.
“There is a higher father that I appeal to,” Bush said.
But there are different political imperatives driving the two presidents. Obama has every incentive to broadcast his Christianity, while Bush, for other reasons, chose to narrowcast his religious references to a targeted audience.
For Obama, Christian rhetoric offers an opportunity to connect with a broader base of supporters in a nation in which 83 percent of Americans believe in God. What’s more, regularly invoking Jesus helps Obama minimize the number of American who believe he is a Muslim — a linkage that can be politically damaging. According to a Pew Research Center study, 11 percent of Americans believe, incorrectly, that Obama is a Muslim; it’s a number that is virtually unchanged from the 2008 presidential campaign.
Yet Obama has targeted his messages, too. He used speeches in Turkey and last week in Egypt to highlight the Muslim relatives in his past as a way to draw a connection with his Muslim audiences — something he shied away from during his presidential campaign.
For Bush, invoking Jesus publicly was fraught with political risk. He was so closely politically identified with the Christian right that overt talk of Christ from the White House risked alienating mainstream and secular voters. Bush instead quoted passages from scripture or Christian hymns, as he did in his 2003 State of the Union Address when he used the phrase “wonder-working power.” That sort of oblique reference resonated deeply with evangelical Christians but sailed largely unnoticed past secular voters.
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To some, the difference between the two presidents goes beyond rhetoric. David Kuo, a former official in Bush’s faith-based office who later became disillusioned with the president he served, worries that both men have exploited religious phraseology for political gain. “From a spiritual perspective, that’s a great and grave danger,” he said. “When God becomes identified with a political agenda, God gets screwed.”
And he suspects that Obama has an even larger goal: the resurrection of the largely dormant Christian Left, a tradition that encompasses Martin Luther King’s civil rights leadership and dates back as far as Dorothy Day, the liberal activist who co-founded the Catholic Worker movement in the 1930s.
Recast in 21st Century terms, that long-dormant stream of American political life could become a powerful political force. A Pew survey released May 21 found that even as Americans remain highly religious, there has there been a slow decline in the number of Americans with socially conservative values – especially among young voters. That creates an opening for Obama, especially at a time when some conservative evangelicals are telling pollsters they are frustrated and disillusioned with politics.
“In the long term, this could be huge,” said Stephen Schneck, director of the Life Cycle Institute at The Catholic University of America, who is active in left-leaning political efforts. “There are swing Catholics and swing Protestants even within the evangelicals. To the extent Obama can mobilize those people as part of a new Democratic coalition, that marginalizes Republicans even further.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090609/pl_politico/23510
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This is actually good article and exposed the hypocrisy of the left big time.
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Yeah, I think it's funny how much they criticized Bush for invoking Jesus, but now that Obama is doing the same, but even more so than Bush did, they are okay with it. And look:
"But inside his White House, Obama has placed his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships — run by a 26-year old Pentecostal minister named Josh DuBois — under the White House’s Domestic Policy Council. That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions."
And so many of them gave Sarah Palin such a hard time just because she is one of those "crazy Pentecostals." :)
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Yeah, I think it's funny how much they criticized Bush for invoking Jesus, but now that Obama is doing the same, but even more so than Bush did, they are okay with it. And look:
"But inside his White House, Obama has placed his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships — run by a 26-year old Pentecostal minister named Josh DuBois — under the White House’s Domestic Policy Council. That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions."
And so many of them gave Sarah Palin such a hard time just because she is one of those "crazy Pentecostals." :)
I cant wait for the butt boy crew to show up to defend this nonsense.
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Come on...u'll get crickets. GETBIG is a microcosm of the country and as it seems, the MSM. Its amazing what gets covered here.
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Just curious - how many major speeches did Bush give in his first 120 days in office?
Did he visit a G8 summit, all the major euro capitals, iraq, a slew of mid-east locations, canada, mexico, and a lot of other places, giving speeches at each of them?
nah, he was still getting his cabinet together in June, preparing for a nice summer of relaxing in crawford and purposefully ignoring vital intel documents.
Obama gave a lot of major speeches in a lot of places where it was useful to mention God. Deal with it.
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Um...which accomplished what exactly?
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Yeah, I think it's funny how much they criticized Bush for invoking Jesus, but now that Obama is doing the same, but even more so than Bush did, they are okay with it. And look:
The criticism wasn't that Bush invoked Jesus, it was that Bush felt he needed no other justification for his policies than their endorsement from God. Multiple sources claimed he believed God spoke to him and was directly guiding his policy decisions.
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Um...which accomplished what exactly?
The G8 speech sure did a lot to stop the dollar-dropping talk that was popular at the time. DOW is still strong, 18+ weeks into Obama's presidency.
I don't know what his middle east talk did. Many think it helped repair relations with the arab world. Ask any marine on the streets of baghdad if they want 90% of the population loving them or hating them... I wonder what their answer would be?
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Tue Jun 9, 2009
He’s done it while talking about abortion and the Middle East, even the economy. The references serve at once as an affirmation of his faith and a rebuke against a rumor that persists for some to this day.
As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches — something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings, even though Bush’s Christian faith was at the core of his political identity.
In his speech Thursday in Cairo, Obama told the crowd that he is a Christian and mentioned the Islamic story of Isra, in which Moses, Jesus and Mohammed joined in prayer.
At the University of Notre Dame on May 17, Obama talked about the good works he’d seen done by Christian community groups in Chicago. “I found myself drawn — not just to work with the church but to be in the church,” Obama said. “It was through this service that I was brought to Christ.”
And a month before that, Obama mentioned Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount at Georgetown University to make the case for his economic policies. Obama retold the story of two men, one who built his house on a pile of sand and the other who built his on a rock: “We cannot rebuild this economy on the same pile of sand,” Obama said. “We must build our house upon a rock.”
More than four months into the Obama presidency, a picture is emerging of a chief executive who is comfortable with public displays of his religion — although he has also paid tribute to other faiths and those he called “nonbelievers” during his inaugural address.
Obama’s invocation of the Christian Messiah is more overt than Americans heard in the public rhetoric of Bush in his time in the White House — even though Bush’s victories were powered in part by evangelical voters.
“I don’t recall a single example of Bush as president ever saying, ‘Jesus’ or ‘Christ,’” said Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Christian group Family Research Council. “This is different.”
//
To Perkins, Obama’s overtly Christian rhetoric is a welcome development from an administration that he largely disagrees with on the issues, though Perkins sees a political motive behind it, as well.
“I applaud that. It gives people a sense of comfort,” Perkins said. “But I think it’s a veneer, a facade that covers over a lot of policies that are anti-Christian.” That includes, in his view, Obama’s stance in favor of abortion rights.
The Rev. Barry Lynn, the executive director of the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State, doesn’t like the trend with Obama: “I don’t need to hear politicians tell me how religious they are,” Lynn said. “Obama in a very overt way does what Bush tended to do in a more covert way.”
Obama’s public embrace of his Christianity so far has not included choosing a church in the capital, and he has attended Sunday services only once since his election, on Easter Sunday. The White House said at the time the family was still looking for a spiritual home in Washington.
But inside his White House, Obama has placed his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships — run by a 26-year old Pentecostal minister named Josh DuBois — under the White House’s Domestic Policy Council. That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions.
Also, religious leaders meet with White House policymakers on a regular basis — and help to shape decisions on matters large and small. A White House speechwriter working on Obama’s Egypt speech called several faith leaders to get their thoughts. After the White House unveiled its budget in April, officials convened a two-hour conference call with religious leaders to discuss how the spending plan would help the poor.
“President Obama is a committed Christian, and he’s being true to who he is,” DuBois told POLITICO. “There’s an appropriate role for faith in public life, and his remarks reflect that. And they also reflect a spirit of inclusivity that recognizes that we are a nation with a range of different religious backgrounds and traditions.”
Still, it is ironic that Obama, who rode a wave of young, Internet-savvy and more secular voters to the White House, would more freely invoke the name of Jesus Christ than did Bush.
In his first year as president, Bush mentioned “Jesus” or “Christ” a handful of times — but only in innocuous contexts, such as his Easter proclamation, a Christmas message and a proclamation on “Salvation Army Week.”
To be sure, Bush talked openly about his faith. On the day of his second inauguration as governor of Texas, Bush reportedly told Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, “I believe that God wants me to be president.” As a Texas governor running for president, Bush declared in a presidential debate that the philosopher he most identified with was Jesus.
And in an interview for Bob Woodward’s 2004 book “Plan of Attack,” Bush was asked whether he’d talked to his father, the President George H.W. Bush, about the decision to invade Iraq.
“There is a higher father that I appeal to,” Bush said.
But there are different political imperatives driving the two presidents. Obama has every incentive to broadcast his Christianity, while Bush, for other reasons, chose to narrowcast his religious references to a targeted audience.
For Obama, Christian rhetoric offers an opportunity to connect with a broader base of supporters in a nation in which 83 percent of Americans believe in God. What’s more, regularly invoking Jesus helps Obama minimize the number of American who believe he is a Muslim — a linkage that can be politically damaging. According to a Pew Research Center study, 11 percent of Americans believe, incorrectly, that Obama is a Muslim; it’s a number that is virtually unchanged from the 2008 presidential campaign.
Yet Obama has targeted his messages, too. He used speeches in Turkey and last week in Egypt to highlight the Muslim relatives in his past as a way to draw a connection with his Muslim audiences — something he shied away from during his presidential campaign.
For Bush, invoking Jesus publicly was fraught with political risk. He was so closely politically identified with the Christian right that overt talk of Christ from the White House risked alienating mainstream and secular voters. Bush instead quoted passages from scripture or Christian hymns, as he did in his 2003 State of the Union Address when he used the phrase “wonder-working power.” That sort of oblique reference resonated deeply with evangelical Christians but sailed largely unnoticed past secular voters.
.
To some, the difference between the two presidents goes beyond rhetoric. David Kuo, a former official in Bush’s faith-based office who later became disillusioned with the president he served, worries that both men have exploited religious phraseology for political gain. “From a spiritual perspective, that’s a great and grave danger,” he said. “When God becomes identified with a political agenda, God gets screwed.”
And he suspects that Obama has an even larger goal: the resurrection of the largely dormant Christian Left, a tradition that encompasses Martin Luther King’s civil rights leadership and dates back as far as Dorothy Day, the liberal activist who co-founded the Catholic Worker movement in the 1930s.
Recast in 21st Century terms, that long-dormant stream of American political life could become a powerful political force. A Pew survey released May 21 found that even as Americans remain highly religious, there has there been a slow decline in the number of Americans with socially conservative values – especially among young voters. That creates an opening for Obama, especially at a time when some conservative evangelicals are telling pollsters they are frustrated and disillusioned with politics.
“In the long term, this could be huge,” said Stephen Schneck, director of the Life Cycle Institute at The Catholic University of America, who is active in left-leaning political efforts. “There are swing Catholics and swing Protestants even within the evangelicals. To the extent Obama can mobilize those people as part of a new Democratic coalition, that marginalizes Republicans even further.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090609/pl_politico/23510
Bush is wasn't sure if Julio, or Jesus was our saviour..... :-\
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The criticism wasn't that Bush invoked Jesus, it was that Bush felt he needed no other justification for his policies than their endorsement from God. Multiple sources claimed he believed God spoke to him and was directly guiding his policy decisions.
Bush admits he did NOT consult his defense secretary, Don Rumsfeld, before invading Iraq.
Bush admits he DID consult God before invading Iraq.
Now, when barry tells us he is invading NK, and didn't ask Gates about it, but he did have a sitdown with Rev Wright, I'll be concerned. Until then, good point - Bush claimed to ask God for advice, not his top military advisor. That's inexcusable.
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Bush admits he did NOT consult his defense secretary, Don Rumsfeld, before invading Iraq.
Bush admits he DID consult God before invading Iraq.
Now, when barry tells us he is invading NK, and didn't ask Gates about it, but he did have a sitdown with Rev Wright, I'll be concerned. Until then, good point - Bush claimed to ask God for advice, not his top military advisor. That's inexcusable.
Are u an idiot...seriously. He didn't consult Rumsfeld.....ok 240. Maybe u shouldn't have fire arms.
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Bush admits he did NOT consult his defense secretary, Don Rumsfeld, before invading Iraq.
Bush admits he DID consult God before invading Iraq.
Now, when barry tells us he is invading NK, and didn't ask Gates about it, but he did have a sitdown with Rev Wright, I'll be concerned. Until then, good point - Bush claimed to ask God for advice, not his top military advisor. That's inexcusable.
Exactly. All American presidents have been Christian. While he was in office, Bush may have lowered the level on his holy rolling as not to reveal the true depth of his zealotry. Likewise, many people (some of whom have posted in this very thread) accused Obama of being an arriviste Christian during the election cycle.
From the above artice:
For Obama, Christian rhetoric offers an opportunity to connect with a broader base of supporters in a nation in which 83 percent of Americans believe in God. What’s more, regularly invoking Jesus helps Obama minimize the number of American who believe he is a Muslim — a linkage that can be politically damaging. According to a Pew Research Center study, 11 percent of Americans believe, incorrectly, that Obama is a Muslim; it’s a number that is virtually unchanged from the 2008 presidential campaign.
Yet Obama has targeted his messages, too. He used speeches in Turkey and last week in Egypt to highlight the Muslim relatives in his past as a way to draw a connection with his Muslim audiences — something he shied away from during his presidential campaign.
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Barry would worship a pile of shit if it got him a few more votes. He's an opportunist not religious. He hasn't even picked a church in DC. He join the Church in Chicago because it helped him.
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And so many of them gave Sarah Palin such a hard time just because she is one of those "crazy Pentecostals." :)
most americans draw the line at creationism ;)
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Are u an idiot...seriously. He didn't consult Rumsfeld.....ok 240. Maybe u shouldn't have fire arms.
MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews April 29 with Donald Rumsfeld
MATTHEWS: Mr. Secretary, let me ask you about the war in Iraq and the boldest question I could put to you here in the Pentagon. Did you ever advise the president to go to war?
[...]
RUMSFELD: You ought to get a life. You could do something besides read those books.
MATTHEWS: This is my life. Let me ask you about something a little more...
RUMSFELD: Let me answer your question.
MATTHEWS: Did you advise the president to go to war?
RUMSFELD: Yes. He did not ask me, is the question. And to my knowledge, there are a number of people he did not ask.
He didn't consult Rummy, HH6.
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The criticism wasn't that Bush invoked Jesus, it was that Bush felt he needed no other justification for his policies than their endorsement from God. Multiple sources claimed he believed God spoke to him and was directly guiding his policy decisions.
But inside his White House, Obama has placed his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships — run by a 26-year old Pentecostal minister named Josh DuBois — under the White House’s Domestic Policy Council. That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions.
Also, religious leaders meet with White House policymakers on a regular basis — and help to shape decisions on matters large and small. A White House speechwriter working on Obama’s Egypt speech called several faith leaders to get their thoughts. After the White House unveiled its budget in April, officials convened a two-hour conference call with religious leaders to discuss how the spending plan would help the poor.
And a month before that, Obama mentioned Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount at Georgetown University to make the case for his economic policies. Obama retold the story of two men, one who built his house on a pile of sand and the other who built his on a rock: “We cannot rebuild this economy on the same pile of sand,” Obama said. “We must build our house upon a rock.”
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That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions.
Also, religious leaders meet with White House policymakers on a regular basis — and help to shape decisions on matters large and small
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That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions.
Also, religious leaders meet with White House policymakers on a regular basis — and help to shape decisions on matters large and small
Al Doggity,
As a Christian myself, I am glad to know that you and many others are delighted to see a US President making an effort to "involve" religious people in the administration’s policy decisions, to get religious people to "help" to shape his policy decisions, to use the Bible to help to shape his economic policies, and to hear him invoke Jesus Christ more than Bush ever did.
If this were Bush, I wonder if the same people would be just as delighted.
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Very interesting. Pretty tough to spin this, but it's funny to see the liberal lapdogs try. :)
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The criticism wasn't that Bush invoked Jesus, it was that Bush felt he needed no other justification for his policies than their endorsement from God. Multiple sources claimed he believed God spoke to him and was directly guiding his policy decisions.
That's my feeling on it as well.
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Very interesting. Pretty tough to spin this, but it's funny to see the liberal lapdogs try. :)
;D
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Al Doggity,
As a Christian myself, I am glad to know that you and many others are delighted to see a US President making an effort to "involve" religious people in the administration’s policy decisions, to get religious people to "help" to shape his policy decisions, to use the Bible to help to shape his economic policies, and to hear him invoke Jesus Christ more than Bush ever did.
If this were Bush, I wonder if the same people would be just as delighted.
Where did I ever claim to be delighted? I don't recall doing that. What I have done is point out how Obama's use of religion is different than Bush's. Bush was often motivated SOLELY by his religious beliefs, frequently to the detriment of the country. Religion is one of several factors that influences the Obama administration's decisions. If Bush had operated in a like manner as opposed to the zealotry he displayed throughout his presidency then, yes, I WOULD have been delighted.
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Where did I ever claim to be delighted? I don't recall doing that. What I have done is point out how Obama's use of religion is different than Bush's. Bush was often motivated SOLELY by his religious beliefs, frequently to the detriment of the country. Religion is one of several factors that influences the Obama administration's decisions. If Bush had operated in a like manner as opposed to the zealotry he displayed throughout his presidency then, yes, I WOULD have been delighted.
So you are delighted that Obama is operating in this manner.
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Al Doggity,
As a Christian myself, I am glad to know that you and many others are delighted to see a US President making an effort to "involve" religious people in the administration’s policy decisions, to get religious people to "help" to shape his policy decisions, to use the Bible to help to shape his economic policies, and to hear him invoke Jesus Christ more than Bush ever did.
If this were Bush, I wonder if the same people would be just as delighted.
You really think the Bible is a good basis for running government? ??? :-\
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You really think the Bible is a good basis for running government? ??? :-\
That's not the point. The point is that the same people who criticized Bush for doing this, are now making all kinds of excuses for Obama who is now doing the same thing, but even more so than Bush ever did.
I do not believe in theocracies, but it's my personal opinion that you can't expect a true Biblical Christian not to live by the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible.
Ron Paul has said that his faith helps to shape his policy and voting decisions.
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That's not the point. The point is that the same people who criticized Bush for doing this, are now making all kinds of excuses for Obama who is now doing the same thing, but even more so than Bush ever did.
I do not believe in theocracies, but it's my personal opinion that you can't expect a true Biblical Christian not to live by the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible.
Ron Paul has said that his faith helps to shape his policy and voting decisions.
Jesus' teachings are so contradictory that living by them doesn't seem to be the best idea imo. I think Obama is an atheist who invokes religion for theatrical reasons.
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This is actually good article and exposed the hypocrisy of the left big time.
I've always been sceptical about Obama due to his strong religiousity.
It's never good when the leader of the free world is a religious nutcase.
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I've always been sceptical about Obama due to his strong religiousity.
It's never good when the leader of the free world is a religious nutcase.
He's faking it.
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lol. He's either a "fundamentalist" or a liar.
Talk about denial. :)
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So you are delighted that Obama is operating in this manner.
Nooooo, you completely missed the point of my post. All American presidents have been Christian, and a majority of the American public also identify themselves as Christian. If a president incorporates spirituality into his speeches, that borders on a non-issue for me. Bill Clinton spoke at many churches and quoted the bible often.
What Bush did that was unprecedented was to push religion to the center of his platform. He claimed to hold conversations with God.
The point I was making in my previous post is that I would have been delighted if religion held a more moderate place in the Bush White House. I think you understood that, though.
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Save me Jebus!
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What Bush did that was unprecedented was to push religion to the center of his platform. He claimed to hold conversations with God.
Unprecedented? Hardly. Our current president has conversations with God too:
"The questions I had did not magically disappear," Obama wrote in his recent book, titled "The Audacity of Hope" after Wright's turn of phrase, of the day four years later when he made a formal commitment of Christian faith. "But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0716/p01s01-uspo.html
Explaining what it meant to him to be a Christian, the Democratic senator from Illinois talked of "walking humbly with our God": "I know that I don't walk alone, and I know that if I can get myself out of the way, that I can maybe carry out in some small way what he intends."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-saddleback-obama-mccainaug17,0,4760268.story
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Yes, unprecedented.
When he starts claiming that he makes policy decisions because he spoke to God and God told him to do it, then I'll have to reconsider.
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Yes, unprecedented.
When he starts claiming that he makes policy decisions because he spoke to God and God told him to do it, then I'll have to reconsider.
So you didn't mean that having conversations with God was unprecedented?
Sounds like his faith guides all of his decision making to me:
I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Jesus set by feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn’t ‘fall out in church’ as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn’t want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals.
. . .
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20080306_news_flash_obama_clinton_claim_christian_faith/
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So you didn't mean that having conversations with God was unprecedented?
Sounds like his faith guides all of his decision making to me:
I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Jesus set by feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn’t ‘fall out in church’ as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn’t want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals.
. . .
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20080306_news_flash_obama_clinton_claim_christian_faith/
A little while ago, I saw an old interview with Halle Berry in which she was promoting a movie she starred in about the life of Dorothy Dandridge. She said she felt Dandridge's spirit on the set of the movie. A reasonable thing to say, whether or not you believe it was true. However, if she claimed that she went home at night and Ouija boarded Dandridge to ask her advice on how she should play a certain scene or if certain parts of the script were factually accurate, I would think she was a little off.
If Bush was a Hollywood starlet, he would have Ouija boarded Dorothy Dandridge.
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A little while ago, I saw an old interview with Halle Berry in which she was promoting a movie she starred in about the life of Dorothy Dandridge. She said she felt Dandridge's spirit on the set of the movie. A reasonable thing to say, whether or not you believe it was true. However, if she claimed that she went home at night and Ouija boarded Dandridge to ask her advice on how she should play a certain scene or if certain parts of the script were factually accurate, I would think she was a little off.
If Bush was a Hollywood starlet, he would have Ouija boarded Dorothy Dandridge.
Not a good comparison. Why not just deal with the facts? Obama calls himself a Christian. Obama made his faith a central part of his campaign. Obama has made religion part of his administration. Obama talks to God and believes God talks to him and that God is a "powerful guide" for all of his values and ideals. There is zero difference between Obama and Bush from that standpoint.
I do question the sincerity of his beliefs and his tortured interpretation of some aspects of religion, but superficially he isn't much different than Bush from a religious point of view. In fact, he has repeatedly invoked the name of Jesus Christ as president, something Bush never did.
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It's the perfect comparison. In neither of the quotes you posted did Obama claim that God spoke to him. He did say that his knowledge of the Gospel did influence his values and ideals, and ostensibly affects his decisions. Part of many things that affect his decision. Like any reasonable person.Those are the facts.
While Obama uses biblical stories as parables to explain his administration's policies, Bush uses biblical stories about demons in the middle east as proof of their existence and reasons for war. That is completely different than anything Obama, Clinton, Reagan or Carter did. All men were known to be religious, but Bush's level of zealotry was unprecedented.
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It's the perfect comparison. In neither of the quotes you posted did Obama claim that God spoke to him. He did say that his knowledge of the Gospel did influence his values and ideals, and ostensibly affects his decisions. Part of many things that affect his decision. Like any reasonable person.Those are the facts.
While Obama uses biblical stories as parables to explain his administration's policies, Bush uses biblical stories about demons in the middle east as proof of their existence and reasons for war. That is completely different than anything Obama, Clinton, Reagan or Carter did. All men were known to be religious, but Bush's level of zealotry was unprecedented.
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Good try houdini.
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It's a shame American politicians can't be more honest about their atheism. :-\
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Good try houdini.
lol. :) Total denial. Whether you are religious or not, you cannot reasonably say that Obama doesn't talk to God through prayer. That's what Christians do. And he did admit to talking to God: "But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me." How did "God spirit" beckon him without communicating with him?
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Obama Says Teachings of Jesus Christ 'Spoke to Me,' then Defends Abortion
LifeSitenews.com ^ | September 29, 2010 | By Kathleen Gilbert
Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:01:03 PM by topher
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Obama Says Teachings of Jesus Christ 'Spoke to Me,' then Defends Abortion
By Kathleen Gilbert
ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico, September 29, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Following reports of widespread skepticism over his professed Christianity, President Obama on Tuesday invoked the teachings of Jesus Christ as the inspiration for his public agenda, which he called part of an "effort to express my Christian faith" - and in his next breath defended the legalized killing of unborn children.
When a teacher's assistant asked him why he was a Christian during a townhall Q&A in Albuquerque, the president answered, “I’m a Christian by choice.”
The president admitted that his parents “weren’t folks who went to church every week" and that his mother "didn’t raise me in the church.” "I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead - being my brothers’ and sisters’ keeper, treating others as they would treat me," he said.
Obama continued: "And I think also understanding that Jesus Christ dying for my sins spoke to the humility we all have to have as human beings, that we’re sinful and we’re flawed and we make mistakes, and that we achieve salvation through the grace of God. But what we can do, as flawed as we are, is still see God in other people and do our best to help them find their own grace.
“That’s what I strive to do. That’s what I pray to do every day. I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith," he said.
But the president then jumped to defend the legal killing of unborn children when the same woman asked about regulating the procedure.
"Now, with respect to the abortion issue, I actually think - I mean, there are laws both federal, state and constitutional that are in place," he said. "And I think that this is an area where I think Bill Clinton had the right formulation a couple of decades ago, which is abortion should be safe, legal, and rare."
Obama exhorted the audience to "recognize" killing unborn children as "a difficult, oftentimes tragic situation that families are wrestling with." "I think the families and the women involved are the ones who should make the decisions, not the government," he said, adding: "I do think actually that there are a whole host of laws on the books that after a certain period, the interests shift such that you can have some restrictions, for example, on late-term abortions, and appropriately so."
As an Illinois and U.S. senator, Obama never once voted in favor of an abortion restriction, supporting even the gruesome partial-birth abortion procedure and voting against a state law to protect infants born alive during an abortion.
Since ascending to the White House, he has solidified his 100% pro-abortion record by pursuing greater funding for abortion groups both overseas and at home. In crafting the federal health care reform, Obama's administration worked closely with abortion giant Planned Parenthood, whom he promised in 2007 that reproductive health would be "at the center, the heart" of his health care plans.
Obama's devotion to abortion is not the only aspect of a public agenda in plain conflict with the Christian worldview.
Obama has taken an increasingly aggressive stance against Christian values on marriage and the family by courting the homosexualist lobby, and has pushed for an end to the federal Defense of Marriage Act, the repeal of the U.S. military's ban on open homosexuality, and gay adoption. Obama also successfully championed the inclusion of "sexual orientation" as a federally protected trait alongside race and religion in federal "hate crimes" legislation.
A survey by the Pew Research Center in August found that nearly one in five Americans believe Obama is a Muslim, and only one in three believe he is an adherent of the faith he claims; 43 percent said they were unsure. The White House shot back at the polls, claiming that right-wing "misinformation campaigns" had produced the results.
Yet skeptics likely remained unmoved when, after the Pew results were collected, Obama vouched for a proposed Islamic community center and mosque near the site of the 9/11 terrorist attack in New York City. The president announced his support at a White House dinner celebrating the Muslim fast of Ramadan.
Christian leaders have expressed frustration at Obama's claim to Christianity despite failing to attend church services regularly since winning the 2008 presidential election, including Christmas Day 2008 and 2009.
URL: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/sep/10092907.html
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Yeah, I think it's funny how much they criticized Bush for invoking Jesus, but now that Obama is doing the same, but even more so than Bush did, they are okay with it. And look:
"But inside his White House, Obama has placed his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships — run by a 26-year old Pentecostal minister named Josh DuBois — under the White House’s Domestic Policy Council. That was widely seen as an effort to involve a religious perspective in the administration’s policy decisions."
And so many of them gave Sarah Palin such a hard time just because she is one of those "crazy Pentecostals." :)
He has to invoke Jesus. It is expected of him. You would never vote for a secular president of any political stripe.
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He has to invoke Jesus. It is expected of him. You would never vote for a secular president of any political stripe.
What is a "secular president"?
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What is a "secular president"?
A non-religious, non-christian President, an atheist president...for example.
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A non-religious, non-christian President, an atheist president...for example.
Thanks. I don't think the majority of the public would vote for an atheist for president.
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Thanks. I don't think the majority of the public would vote for an atheist for president.
If he promised to leave me alone, not tax me more, not enatc insane policies, I would vote for that person.
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If he promised to leave me alone, not tax me more, not enatc insane policies, I would vote for that person.
That is my point. He could promise that and if he didn't talk about Jesus all day no one would vote for him. Since you are not a religious nutcase you might not understand; I don't understand either.
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Thanks. I don't think the majority of the public would vote for an atheist for president.
Yes and that is a sad thing when religion qualifies you more than your policies.
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Yes and that is a sad thing when religion qualifies you more than your policies.
I think it's just a matter of preference and shows how important faith is in this country. I don't have a problem with atheists. One of my good buddies is an atheist (among other atheist friends), but I wouldn't want them running the country. I'd rather have someone who believes in a higher power.
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If he promised to leave me alone, not tax me more, not enatc insane policies, I would vote for that person.
Yeah. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with you. Just not enough to make a difference in a national election.
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I think it's just a matter of preference and shows how important faith is in this country. I don't have a problem with atheists. One of my good buddies is an atheist (among other atheist friends), but I wouldn't want them running the country. I'd rather have someone who believes in a higher power.
What does belief in a higher power have to do with your office?
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What does belief in a higher power have to do with your office?
Among other things, it has to do with decision-making, particularly in crisis, and humility. It's one of the things that keeps me and other Christians grounded. I know that whatever success I may have is a result of God's grace. I'd like to see the same kind of recognition in our president.
BTW, the Democrat nominee for governor here (former Congressman Neil Abercrombie) is rumored to be an atheist. Probably not enough time to confirm this before November, but if true it would kill his campaign.
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Among other things, it has to do with decision-making, particularly in crisis, and humility. It's one of the things that keeps me and other Christians grounded. I know that whatever success I may have is a result of God's grace. I'd like to see the same kind of recognition in our president.
BTW, the Democrat nominee for governor here (former Congressman Neil Abercrombie) is rumored to be an atheist. Probably not enough time to confirm this before November, but if true it would kill his campaign.
In a crisis you want an intelligent rational, human being, not someone who thinks his decisions are merely putty in god's hands. Ronnie Coleman does the same thing, thanks god for his success (and forgets to thank the boatload of chemicals he uses). I don't want a Ronnie for president.
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In a crisis you want an intelligent rational, human being, not someone who thinks his decisions are merely putty in god's hands. Ronnie Coleman does the same thing, thanks god for his success (and forgets to thank the boatload of chemicals he uses). I don't want a Ronnie for president.
No, in a crisis I want an intelligent, rational person who prays about whatever decision they're going to make, and then makes the smartest decision possible based on all the facts and circumstances.
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No, in a crisis I want an intelligent, rational person who prays about whatever decision they're going to make, and then makes the smartest decision possible based on all the facts and circumstances.
In a crisis, i just want to get bitter, cling to my beer, cling to my guns, guns, and my blackberry. ;D ;D
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Praying over a decision is akin to saying, "Fuck I don't know what to do, but I sure hope luck is on my side."
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You really think the Bible is a good basis for running government? ??? :-\
No, what is that Jesus said "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." It's pretty obvious that Jesus was not political.
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In a crisis, i just want to get bitter, cling to my beer, cling to my guns, guns, and my blackberry. ;D ;D
lol. So says your president. :)
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Praying over a decision is akin to saying, "Fuck I don't know what to do, but I sure hope luck is on my side."
Not at all. I pray for wisdom. I think prayer works only when you've done all you can to make the right thing happen.
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Not at all. I pray for wisdom. I think prayer works only when you've done all you can to make the right thing happen.
I think it's retarded... Either you have some wisdom on a situation or you don't.
Prayer is for chumps.
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I think it's retarded... Either you have some wisdom on a situation or you don't.
Prayer is for chumps.
Bitter Clingers!
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Bitter Clingers!
I'll have you know I do not own a blackberry.
It's a damn iPhone... ;D
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I think it's retarded... Either you have some wisdom on a situation or you don't.
Prayer is for chumps.
Prayer is for everyone, especially the president. You should try it. :)
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I'll have you know I do not own a blackberry.
It's a damn iPhone... ;D
Not to derail the thread - but I like the blackberry over the iphone because of the raised keys making it easier to send textx and emails.
As for this thread - I'm not a religious guy and thinks most of it is nonsense. However, I don't begrudge those with genuine faith in their religion.
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Prayer is for everyone, especially the president. You should try it. :)
It's never done me any good... Sorry.
Not to derail the thread - but I like the blackberry over the iphone because of the raised keys making it easier to send textx and emails.
As for this thread - I'm not a religious guy and thinks most of it is nonsense. However, I don't begrudge those with genuine faith in their religion.
I have gotten used to the no keyboard thing... I doubt I'll ever go back to one.
That said, the new Blackberry Torch is very nice... I played with one the other day.
I don't begrudge anyone's religion until they tell me that I need to follow it.
Obviously I am not religious and do not pray, so why would Beach tell me I should try it?
Does he think I grew up not believing in God? Does he think my mom didn't make me spend copious amount of time in church when I was a kid? Does he really know anything about my upbringing?
Of course not...
Don't tell anyone what they should or should do or "try".
Simple.
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What if he told you that by praying you would get 72 virgins delivered on your doorstep? :o :o :o
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It's never done me any good... Sorry.
I have gotten used to the no keyboard thing... I doubt I'll ever go back to one.
That said, the new Blackberry Torch is very nice... I played with one the other day.
I don't begrudge anyone's religion until they tell me that I need to follow it.
Obviously I am not religious and do not pray, so why would Beach tell me I should try it?
Does he think I grew up not believing in God? Does he think my mom didn't make me spend copious amount of time in church when I was a kid? Does he really know anything about my upbringing?
Of course not...
Don't tell anyone what they should or should do or "try".
Simple.
Never too late. And I will tell you whatever the heck I want. You don't have listen, read, or agree. Getting offended by an innocuous comment like that is silly.
I have an iPhone and I HATE the touch screen typing. The raised keyboard on my old BlackBerry was much better. But overall the iPhone is much more fun.
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As for this thread - I'm not a religious guy and thinks most of it is nonsense. However, I don't begrudge those with genuine faith in their religion.
Me neither. I also have no problem with people who choose to believe in nothing or some other "god."
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What if he told you that by praying you would get 72 virgins delivered on your doorstep? :o :o :o
Then I'd know he was a kook.
Never too late. And I will tell you whatever the heck I want. You don't have listen, read, or agree. Getting offended by an innocuous comment like that is silly.
Take note gang... This is how the religious types get to tell you whatever THEY want, but heaven help you if you tell them they are idiots for believing in an invisible deity that must get his kicks for letting innocent babies die of starvation.
::)
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Then I'd know he was a kook.
Take note gang... This is how the religious types get to tell you whatever THEY want, but heaven help you if you tell them they are idiots for believing in an invisible deity that must get his kicks for letting innocent babies die of starvation.
::)
Oh brother. Take note of someone getting their panties in a bunch over a comment made on the internet about prayer. ::)
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Oh brother. Take note of someone getting their panties in a bunch over a comment made on the internet about prayer. ::)
Waaaaaaah waaaaaaah.
::)
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It's never done me any good... Sorry.
It has always done me good. You have to have faith.
FYI...not the best reason to pray, but prayer does a body good. People who pray and make a list of things in their life to thank God for tend to be much happier and healthier than those who do not, research shows. In other words, prayer is good even for atheists.
You should try praying, again. :)
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Waaaaaaah waaaaaaah.
::)
LOL!
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It has always done me good. You have to have faith.
FYI...not a good reason to pray, but prayer does a body good. People who pray and make a list of things in their life to thank God for tend to be much happier and healthier than those who do not, research shows. In other words, prayer is good even for atheists.
You should try praying, again. :)
>:(
Don't tell anyone what they should or should do or "try".
Simple.
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Yes and that is a sad thing when religion qualifies you more than your policies.
What I don't understand is why so many people can't understand or accept this one simple fact...yes, that's right, FACT. A governing persons policies will always reflect their religious beliefs...once again, it is impossible to separate the two, it is not humanly possible. Faith or lack of faith, either or, shape how we view the world and guide our decisions.
Take Obama, here is a man who's faith guides him on the principles of collective salvation, now, look at his policies, what do they reflect? Collective salvation. For Obama, everything is about the collective, the individual is meaningless, for Obama, without success for the collective, there is no success.
Truth be told, this argument of separating religious views from policies is not only annoying but it's downright retarded and the argument over it on this board, especially by some who most of the time I see as having a decent grasp on reality is even beyond retarded...I don't know if there's a word for it, right now I can't think of one. Every time I see this argument being made I think I'm living in the movie "Idiocracy"......."Welcome to Costco, I love you."
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What I don't understand is why so many people can't understand or accept this one simple fact...yes, that's right, FACT. A governing persons policies will always reflect their religious beliefs...once again, it is impossible to separate the two, it is not humanly possible. Faith or lack of faith, either or, shape how we view the world and guide our decisions.
Take Obama, here is a man who's faith guides him on the principles of collective salvation, now, look at his policies, what do they reflect? Collective salvation. For Obama, everything is about the collective, the individual is meaningless, for Obama, without success for the collective, there is no success.
Truth be told, this argument of separating religious views from policies is not only annoying but it's downright retarded and the argument over it on this board, especially by some who most of the time I see as having a decent grasp on reality is even beyond retarded...I don't know if there's a word for it, right now I can't think of one. Every time I see this argument being made I think I'm living in the movie "Idiocracy"......."Welcome to Costco, I love you."
Good post!