Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: mirkok1 on June 13, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
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my main goal is to get stronger, but my body fat level is high. can i make strength gains while losing bodyfat. how much cardio should i do to accomplish this?
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Half hour 5 times a week is a good start.
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So...... even a half an hour after lifting?? Isnt that counter productive for gaining muscle??
Not being a smart ass here im really wondering where i myself am still trying to get a good idea of ehrn and ehrn not to hit cardio.
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Half an hour won't hurt you......that is just about perfect. Precontest, you might bump that up to half an hour, twice a day......that way you won't lose any muscle. IMHO
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So...... even a half an hour after lifting?? Isnt that counter productive for gaining muscle??
Not being a smart ass here im really wondering where i myself am still trying to get a good idea of ehrn and ehrn not to hit cardio.
It will be fine, don't listen to those permabulkers that tell you you can't do cardio after lifting because it will make you go catabolic ::)
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Yeah thats pretty much what i was thinking is that you body would fall into a catabolic state and start to eat the muscle.
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been doing 30 min five times a week... no major changes on the scale but i look and feel better which in the end is what really matters
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If you are heavy...DIET should be your main concern (2000 cals, high protein / low carb, meals every 3hrs)..then cardio & lifting. DO RESEARCH!!!! Articles, Magazines, Links on GB homepage, search function ect...
I used to be heavy (290lbs, 6'tall) 6yrs ago as a result of back surgery. What you need long slow duration. Sprinting and running will kill your knees.
I used to switch it up every day...and the order i did it. I picked from these..and just made sure I totalled an hour.
Bike 20 min, treadmill (fast walk) 20 min, elliptical 20 min, Punching bag (Punch as hard and as fast as you can for 1 min, rest 30 sec..repeat for 20 min). 6 days a week..I'd also add in a fast 30 min walk in the morning as well before breakfast.
Swimming worked great for me (and fat burning). Full body workout, more lung capacity, easy on the joints. It got me into Rugby Shape again.
Research ECA Stack, creatine..both help in fat reduction, one will help recovery and soreness.
Consistency & perseverance is the name of the game. Good Luck
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Thanx alot samoan im just trying to lose some weight because of back issues, Im taking lots of omega 3's and hitting cardio every other day for atleast 30 min's ( Lots of lifting ontop of that ) Lots of protein low carbs.
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No prob. Creatine, multi vitamin and protein shakes are all i supp'd with though back then.
I lost 50lbs in 14wks.
Good luck.
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Hey bench i have to say that i love the avatar freakin HILARIOUS
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No prob. Creatine, multi vitamin and protein shakes are all i supp'd with though back then.
I lost 50lbs in 14wks.
Good luck.
50 lbs in 14 wks???....awesome...can you give us more details on how you acomplished this?....I want to try it...I need to lose a good 50 myself
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50 lbs in 14 wks???....awesome...can you give us more details on how you acomplished this?....I want to try it...I need to lose a good 50 myself
Honestly...it was hell. I was tired and had to force myself to do the cardio (jacked up on caffine helped) and my joints killed me. Sometimes..towards the end I felt tired just doing the simple things like walking from my house to my mailbox..lol
Basically I did no carbs for 2 weeks then added carbs but only 100g a day (oatmeal), no carbs after lunch, ate every 3hrs, stayed at 2000 cals per day...DIET MUST BE SUPER CLEAN. This was the hardest part for me...Samoan culture believes all is cured by food...carb rich food (like greeks, italians ect..), so they try to stuff you every chance they get.
1hr cardio in the morning before breakfast (with ECA Stack) then 1hr after lifting. Total 3hr of exercise a day, 5 days a week and on Saturday I tried to do something active like kayaking, hiking, swimming ect.. Sunday was my day off.
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If you managed to stay at 2000 cals a day with little or no carbs then how much protein/fat were you taking in??
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If you managed to stay at 2000 cals a day with little or no carbs then how much protein/fat were you taking in??
natural fat from my foods (ate a lot of beef / salmon / seeds ect) and I would cook everything in olive oil. 1.5g protein per pound of body weight i believe..it's been a while. Basically it meat and after two weeks, little oatmeal and as much veggies as I wanted (kept me full)
I also took fiber supps..forgot to mention that. This is a MUST with low carb/ high protein diets!
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Honestly...it was hell. I was tired and had to force myself to do the cardio (jacked up on caffine helped) and my joints killed me. Sometimes..towards the end I felt tired just doing the simple things like walking from my house to my mailbox..lol
Basically I did no carbs for 2 weeks then added carbs but only 100g a day (oatmeal), no carbs after lunch, ate every 3hrs, stayed at 2000 cals per day...DIET MUST BE SUPER CLEAN. This was the hardest part for me...Samoan culture believes all is cured by food...carb rich food (like greeks, italians ect..), so they try to stuff you every chance they get.
1hr cardio in the morning before breakfast (with ECA Stack) then 1hr after lifting. Total 3hr of exercise a day, 5 days a week and on Saturday I tried to do something active like kayaking, hiking, swimming ect.. Sunday was my day off.
good stuff...I got tired just reading about all the shit you did..keep up the good work..I will make an attempt to try this and see if it works for me
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Try to separate your cardio sessions from your weight training as much as possible. If you are looking to gain mass, doing to much cardio and hitting the low cal diet is gonna make you lose weight alright... including any potential muscle.
Gain a solid muscle base first (even if you don't burn much fat)
Start with light cardio (maybe 1/2 hour twice daily) but keep the calories up a bit.
First and foremost, get a home bodyfat tester. There is nothing worse than losing weight only to find out afterwards that it was all muscle weight. Sure, you will be lighter and smaller, and look good IN clothes, but that ain't the key here.
Muscle is your ability to burn fat. This is the only place the body burns fat. Use it, keep it. Start of easy and test your bodyfat.
Unless you are juicing, you will end up looking like a fat little rail.
Either diet hard OR cardio hard. Weights must come first.
You decide.
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Bro, no disrespect but...This would be true if he was a builder or at a decent body fat level...he isn't. He said he is heavy which to me means over 25-30+% BF. If this is the case, his biggest concern should be losing fat not keeping the 175lb lean "mass" under it all. Being out of shape, he will get great results the first year or two in all areas (strength, muscle gain, fat loss)
If he circuit trains (weights and cardio) he will gain strength and some muscle but more importantly burn fat..which again is most important at his level of health. Then, when below 20% bf he can then start thinking about switching up to a bulking cycle or at least increasing maintenance calories to keep any lean musle gained while continuing to burn more fat.
We all know in the end you have to choose on...bulk or cut. I'd say he's got enough bulk for now. I see Samoans at the beginning of Rugby season that are 6'4, 340+ lbs..sure they look very strong but in reallity...they're fat and can't run a single mile to save their life. Hence why most die around 55. When I go to the islands, it's RARE to see a really old guy. My dad has already outlived his father at the age of 56 (Gfather died at 54) and two of his YOUNGER brothers...unfortunately I can actually see his health declining these days and fear it won't be long.
Anyways..by the end of season those same guys now are 280 while still a little chubby, their muscle mass becomes more apparent and they can actually run (healthier) for most of the game (2 - 40 min halves)
Point is muscle is great and looking sexy is great, but being healthy and living long enough for you (and S.O.) to enjoy your results, family, life should be most important.
Just my $0.02
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good stuff...I got tired just reading about all the shit you did..keep up the good work..I will make an attempt to try this and see if it works for me
Oh it will work...1hr lifting, 2hrs cardio with 2000 cals will strip fat off you and let you keep muscle (if your protein % is there) but it's hell. Ask Mike A. Kiss those naked girl dreams goodbye, you'll start dreaming of food (pizza, burgers ect...). No lie.
Don't say I didn't warn you. :-\ Give advance notice to your family and friends that for the next 2-3 months your might be more of a prick at times ;D
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T'alofa SI: agree with some of your post. Though do not see too many 6'4 and 340+ Samoans going out for any kind of sports, either in America Samoa, Long beach, Carson, Oceanside or any where else (if bouncing or security special event guard is a sport...OK than). Too busy with the 40's.
An 18 year old that size (fat included) and a little motivation and better than average speed, could land a partial or full (NCCA very strict of late) scholarship at USC ( trouble times there...always wondered why the west coast teams get under the spotlight the most),, BYU or the U. Always need a guy that size just to move 2 or 3 feet on 4 or 5 line plays a game. Though hard to get special helmets to fit some of those studs.
Remember that before the white Gods arrived, Samoans & Hawaiians were somewhat lean and muscular (we know this through many ship records and explorers journals). And of course, large bone, with wide frames. Heard of the Missionary position? How about the Missionary diet, with overprocessed grains, canned meats/veggies and maybe the number one causes of future obese and health problems...white sugar & flour. This was a more Christian way to eat. Still adapted today, yes quite a few of the clan seems to be checking out early, usually a little after 60. Bad diet, to me, is the number one cause. Heart and high blood pressure seems to lead. Most all my Samoan bloods have crap diets. Even the younger jocks who should know better. Though a few in the Pro's are making changes. Three of my cousins who were in, or are now in, the NFL are trying to do this. Two of there white wifes are dumping on them all the time about that. Kind of funny watching that.
Far as cardio goes, favoring interval training, rather that marathon style cardio workouts, can insure muscle gained will be muscle kept with any fat lost program. Again, Tabata leads in my view. And maybe two to four times a week (never two days in a row) max at that. Dropping carbs goes hand in hand with this, or any other, fat reduction. Good Luck.
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Remember that before the white Gods arrived, Samoans & Hawaiians were somewhat lean and muscular (we know this through many ship records and explorers journals). And of course, large bone, with wide frames. Heard of the Missionary position? How about the Missionary diet, with overprocessed grains, canned meats/veggies and maybe the number one causes of future obese and health problems...white sugar & flour. This was a more Christian way to eat. Still adapted today, yes quite a few of the clan seems to be checking out early, usually a little after 60. Bad diet, to me, is the number one cause.
Malo Uso! You samoan or afa?
Agreed, only in the last 15 years did they start getting really fat back home. Funny enough, Mc'D, KFC and Pizza joints started showing up around that time. When I was a kid, the only fat people I used to see where American tourist.
Back in the day their (polynesians in general) diet consisted of mainly island veggies, fruits and really only two carb / starch source = Taro(root similar to potato) & breadfruit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadfruit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadfruit)). Protein was anything they could bring out of the sea. EVERY family had a plantation of sorts with Taro, breadfruit and banana trees (remember..no grocery stores). So Farm work, no sugar, low carb, low fat diet = Lean and Muscular.
Back on topic though...
Painlayer really needs to bring down the BF% before trying to "bulk up" muscle.
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interesting posts...learning some good stuff here
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Good reply SamoanIrishman.
You are right. I probably didnt read through the whole original post, but when someone is just starting out, burning fat is gonna be key. If they wait they will get impatient. The 175 (underneath) or whatever is inconsequential.
Good post.
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SI, keeping this short:
Born Tutuila island, Fagatogo, grew up around Pago Pago village/harbor area.
Father died when I was 10. So I and my mother and 2 sisters came to mainland (more family support on her side). Lived in North Long Beach (1 and a 1/2 year) near Willowbrook/Compton line. Settles in Oceanside/Carlsbad SD county area. Played football four years (starter) in the Pac 10. Only been back once to AS and that was only a side trip, on a 3 month surfing safari. First impressions of the mainland was that home boy Samoans (unless they were serious about sports) here were too fat and sloppy (all day 40's and Popeye Chicken?) and how weak the Mexican and black kids my age were. Not too many white boys around to compare with in NLB. Kind of funny I thought.
When reducing carbs to the 40 to 60 gram daily range, most people find that calorie may not be the first concern. The energy still stays to a reasonable level for that period even in the 3,000 cal range. Had some athletes, who have to make a lower weight class, just pay attention to the lower carbs, get excellent results. That and the adding of select form of interval workouts (from 8 to 20-30 minutes max). Metabolism differ for each of us, but might try the lower carb level for a week or so and notice any results. Good Luck.
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SI, keeping this short:
Born Tutuila island, Fagatogo, grew up around Pago Pago village/harbor area.
Cool..my family is from Leone, AS...I was there 2yrs ago (i go back ever 2 years or so for some funeral or wedding..you know how that is)..got my tat's there as well..old school style! 1 full day of tap tap tap tap tap...it sucked.
might try the lower carb level for a week or so and notice any results. Good Luck.
First 2 weeks will be mostly water loss, you'll need to be on it at least 6 to see real results. 12-16 is best.
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Back on topic though...
Painlayer really needs to bring down the BF% before trying to "bulk up" muscle.
Yeah i am actually in the process of doing this right now, Just still dont have good diet plan in place just yet, Not a big fan of dieting lol but i need to for my back and legs right now. Is heavy lifting still good during time of extreme dieting?? Or should i go with higher reps/ volume?? also ANY good advice on foods for the diet?? Im thinking chicken,fish for protein...... Oatmeal,rice for carbs....... plenty of veggies and lots of omega 3's also i have been on lipo 6 black for the past month and already lost around 10-15lbs on this stuff so im seeing decent results already... ANY tips or outlines are VERY appreciated
Thank you
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There are tons of diet samples here on GB..search. How much knowledge do you have about nutrition to begin with?..calories per gram of fat? protein? ...Glycemic index is???? Research, Learn, Research some more THEN ask questions. Then research to see if the answer is correct..make sense? Getting the overall point here ;)
Do you sign up for a marathon 2 days before it starts? No.
First thing you need to do - search for videos on lift movements (bodybuilding.com has some for example) and pay VERY, VERY, VERY close attention to the proper FORM of each exercise(advice I got from some of the experienced guys here on GB in fact!). Once you learn proper form then you can start pushing decent heavy weight and not have to worry so much about hurting yourself.
My advice is...as an out of shape newbie, if you try and start pushing really heavy weight right from the start you will end up tearing something. Muscle will fail from the load eventually but if your tendons, joints, body isn't used to all the new weight... you will be setting yourself up for injury when jumping to really heavy weight. Swallow the pride / ego and start off with medium weight and get 12-15 reps out. If you do more than 15 reps...add more weight.
Certain lifts are a staple in BB from what I found in my research, they will help your all around strength and endurance - Bench, Military press, chins, deadlifts, squats. Again form is key here.
Last thing...do you own research. Don't take anyones word for it...for anything, supps, lifts, routines etc. and congratulations on trying to improve the quality and length of your life. Stick with it...be patient.
PS- There are guys here 100x more knowledgable than me..Im just trying to pay it back since they helped me. Also, no one likes diets...it's a necessary evil but worth it. Put your head down and just do that shit! ;D
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There are tons of diet samples here on GB..search. How much knowledge do you have about nutrition to begin with?..calories per gram of fat? protein? ...Glycemic index is???? Research, Learn, Research some more THEN ask questions. Then research to see if the answer is correct..make sense? Getting the overall point here ;)
Do you sign up for a marathon 2 days before it starts? No.
First thing you need to do - search for videos on lift movements (bodybuilding.com has some for example) and pay VERY, VERY, VERY close attention to the proper FORM of each exercise(advice I got from some of the experienced guys here on GB in fact!). Once you learn proper form then you can start pushing decent heavy weight and not have to worry so much about hurting yourself.
My advice is...as an out of shape newbie, if you try and start pushing really heavy weight right from the start you will end up tearing something. Muscle will fail from the load eventually but if your tendons, joints, body isn't used to all the new weight... you will be setting yourself up for injury when jumping to really heavy weight. Swallow the pride / ego and start off with medium weight and get 12-15 reps out. If you do more than 15 reps...add more weight.
Certain lifts are a staple in BB from what I found in my research, they will help your all around strength and endurance - Bench, Military press, chins, deadlifts, squats. Again form is key here.
Last thing...do you own research. Don't take anyones word for it...for anything, supps, lifts, routines etc. and congratulations on trying to improve the quality and length of your life. Stick with it...be patient.
PS- There are guys here 100x more knowledgable than me..Im just trying to pay it back since they helped me. Also, no one likes diets...it's a necessary evil but worth it. Put your head down and just do that shit! ;D
Yeah i got your point but maybe i didnt clarify, Let me do that now
Im not exactly an out of shape newbie i have been lifting for about the past 6 years but NEVER really paid any attention to dieting. I lift with pretty good form i would like to think so i do already have that. Just looking to cut the fat is all like i said for my back. And yes i do know about calories per gram of fat,carbs,protein, A little fuzzy on glycemic index tho...... Just lookin for some help man, I'll start researching more and more and more and more.