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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Stavios on June 20, 2009, 11:25:42 PM
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hey people 8)
so this fall I am going back to school every night and I'll work during the day so I'll try to workout as less as possible because it won't be a priority.
would I still have good gains if I train lets say like this:
monday: squats
wednesday: bench
friday: deadlifts
just trying to get stronger on those for a good 2 years.
do you guys have a better idea ?
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school for what?
what duration should the workouts be?
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hey people 8)
so this fall I am going back to school every night and I'll work during the day so I'll try to workout as less as possible because it won't be a priority.
would I still have good gains if I train lets say like this:
monday: squats
wednesday: bench
friday: deadlifts
just trying to get stronger on those for a good 2 years.
do you guys have a better idea ?
probably need a lat exercise, it would stimulat biceps too
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Some people can get away with that but I have to train my assistance movements to make continuous progress in the main three lifts. My squat goes nowhere without good mornings in my program.
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Some people can get away with that but I have to train my assistance movements to make continuous progress in the main three lifts. My squat goes nowhere without good mornings in my program.
Understood good program though you should get stronger.
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add chin ups...or barbell rows
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add chin ups...or barbell rows
exactly
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school for what?
what duration should the workouts be?
it's a programme called "specialised education", to work with the kids that need helps, or regular kids at school.
lot of jobs in that area for men because right now there is too much women in school and they can't control the kids.
I'd like to get the workouts done in about 1 hour
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It will work. If you progress on those lifts everything will grow.
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It will work. If you progress on those lifts everything will grow.
Yo Van , is that you in that pic with the cowboy hat on? ???
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so you're saying you can only do one exercise in an hour? ::) ???
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Yo Van , is that you in that pic with the cowboy hat on? ???
Me and that guy aren't even on the same continent. Googled "Van Bilderass" and ended up on that guy's myspace. But please don't tell GetItOnNY. :D
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Me and that guy aren't even on the same continent. Googled "Van Bilderass" and ended up on that guy's myspace. But please don't tell GetItOnNY. :D
Ahh Roger that ;D
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hey people 8)
so this fall I am going back to school every night and I'll work during the day so I'll try to workout as less as possible because it won't be a priority.
would I still have good gains if I train lets say like this:
monday: squats
wednesday: bench
friday: deadlifts
just trying to get stronger on those for a good 2 years.
do you guys have a better idea ?
Two questions:
1. What is your current condition and training schedule?
2. how much time you can use for training per day?
As you know, you can have a full and complete exercise in 30 minutes, if you know what you are doing. For example, if you want to train your legs, first you do two sets of 70 - 100 reps of leg extension with a small weights, and stretch your thighs completely. This is simply to prepare your knees and muscles for the exercise, and warm up. Then you do one warm up set with leg press, using weights which you can do full 25 reps with. After that you load the leg press with 90% of your one rep max, and the leg extension- machine also 90% of your ORM. Then you do super set with them, starting with leg-presses and doing it to the failure, meaning that you have to use the spotter. Use a full range of motion while doing this. When that set is done, you go for the extensions without any delay, no pause, no mercy, and do them to the failure. If you need more than two rounds, you haven't done it hard enough. You can do similar combinations for every muscle group, super setting different muscle groups and using heavy weights. Bench/Barbell rows/bicep curls, shoulder presses/tricep presses, etc. I have used this method every now and then, and it gives me an opportunity to have a good exercise within an half an hour. Downside is that you have to have "light"days or a week once a month per muscle group to avoid over training. You also have to be in good shape before trying something like this, because if you are not, you can't walk in days after that leg- routine.
If you don't know your one rep max, just take your heaviest set ever and add 10 %. If you cant get a spotter for bench, use the chest-press machines or dumbbell's. You can fill the gaps with deadlifts, abs, lower back etc. exercises and you will be fine...
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stavios my arm challenged brother... it will build torso + leg + posterior chain mass.. no doubt
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so you're saying you can only do one exercise in an hour? ::) ???
On friday I did rack deads, regular deads and seated good mornings. Took 3.5 hours. :D
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On friday I did rack deads, regular deads and seated good mornings. Took 3.5 hours. :D
you must have 7 inch thick steel pipes for erectors by now
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you must have 7 inch thick steel pipes for erectors by now
I wish. My training partner who's much weaker than me has these insane looking filets of meat there. Genetics. :'(
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add and assistants day in the weekend.. and hit up a little bit of everything
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Look at this awesome powerlifter doing shrugs
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On friday I did rack deads, regular deads and seated good mornings. Took 3.5 hours. :D
Really? Are you slow or something? No any idea how to do it right? That figures. I know guys who have won medals in world championship competitions and done dead lift world records without such an idiotic training sessions, so I really hope that you use enough of gear to make it happen. You will need at least a half a pint of gh just to recover that one exercise, so I wish that you a. learn to do it right or b. get smart enough to make better bullshit stories about yourself. Three and a half an hour for one muscle group? How much is your record for dead lift? It must be at least 2,5 metric tons by now. And how do you maintain your energy level through that training? You must eat a half a pig between the sets, or drink a bucket full of gainer, and anyway, it is still silly to use 3,5 hours for an 1 hours exercise.
I mean I have a weakest genetics that man can have, I train back once a week, dead lift once of month, and my one rep max is still 380kg. It isn't much, in fact I have a very weak lower back, but I only train it about 20 minutes per month. Mostly hyper extensions, some good mornings, stiff legged dead lifts and as I told, dead lifts once a month, when I do just some reps with up to 80% of ORM. I also use narrow stand, never done any "sumo" dead lifts, because I like to do it this way...
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Really? Are you slow or something? No any idea how to do it right? That figures. I know guys who have won medals in world championship competitions and done dead lift world records without such an idiotic training sessions, so I really hope that you use enough of gear to make it happen. You will need at least a half a pint of gh just to recover that one exercise, so I wish that you a. learn to do it right or b. get smart enough to make better bullshit stories about yourself. Three and a half an hour for one muscle group? How much is your record for dead lift? It must be at least 2,5 metric tons by now. And how do you maintain your energy level through that training? You must eat a half a pig between the sets, or drink a bucket full of gainer, and anyway, it is still silly to use 3,5 hours for an 1 hours exercise.
I mean I have a weakest genetics that man can have, I train back once a week, dead lift once of month, and my one rep max is still 380kg. It isn't much, in fact I have a very weak lower back, but I only train it about 20 minutes per month. Mostly hyper extensions, some good mornings, stiff legged dead lifts and as I told, dead lifts once a month, when I do just some reps with up to 80% of ORM. I also use narrow stand, never done any "sumo" dead lifts, because I like to do it this way...
LOL, you have NO idea with whom I train.
What do you weigh? A 380kg deadlift with "a very weak lower back"... really? You would easily beat Ano Turtiainen in the deadlift. Yeah right.
Paskapuhetta ;)
My deadlift right now is only about 350kg suited, conventional stance at 225lbs.
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Its always funny how there is at least one or two guys in threads who seem to have an agenda to suggest minimal training is optimal... like deadlifting once a month LOL...
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GreatFinn has a world class conventional deadlift but claims to have a very weak lower back and the "weakest genetics a man can have". Doesn't really train the deadlift but still manages to be the among the strongest deadlifters in Finland. And his deadlift is still 380kg, implying he has done much more previously. 380kg = 838lbs.
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i wish i was that weak as greatfinn.
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Look at this awesome powerlifter doing shrugs
What the hell is he training by doing that? ???
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What the hell is he training by doing that? ???
Apparently he thinks it is some form of a shrug. :-\ :-X
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GreatFinn, please learn your Finnish PL history
Finnish Deadlift Secrets
by Sakari Selkäinaho
For www.EliteFTS.com
Through out the years, the deadlift has been our ”national sport” here in Finland. World records has been broken since early 70´s. What makes Finns pull so much, what is their secret ?
I took a look and after collecting training information of many new and former greats, here is some background and information.
# 1 Genetics
To be able to lift a lot, you have to be talented athlete. Most of the guys had long arms and legs. You could see middleweights pulling over 200 kilos the first time they saw a power bar. But that's only a good start. The best deadlifters in the late 70`s and early 80´s had two things in common. Most of them had a background of hard labor, like lumberjacks, construction workers, farmers or something similar. They carried, lifted and dragged for their living. That laid a perfect background for deadlift training and very often ensured a hard grip too. The second thing was Olympic lifting background, they had pulled alot before their powerlifting career. Raimo Välineva held Scandinavian records in Olympic lifting and was able to clean 330 pounds with straight legs. He had World records of 688 in 148´s and 716 in 165´s in early 80`s. When weightlifting had the press it was more a pure strength sport as now when speed and technique more critical.
Many of the new lifters have some type of athletic background from other sports. Ismo Lappi, 338,5 kg deadlifter in 165´s, has thrown javelin over 75 yards and ran 100 meters in under 11 seconds in his teens. He is fast and explosive enough to deadlift big.
# 2 Squatting for the deadlift
All of the former record holders and many of today's too, squatted with a narrow stance. This had two advantages. First, it served as an excellent special exercise for deadlift. Many trained the squat three times a week. Twice back squatting and once front squatting. The other back squat could be a high bar session.
Other squat exercises were something like lunges, or step squats, using bar on back. These were done sometimes a box under front or back feet, varying how it hits glutes and hamstrings. A 8-12 inch box under back feet hits the upper part of glutes quite hard.
Many used different stances. The narrow stance high bar was the most common but many, like Taito Haara, Reijo Kiviranta and Hannu Saarelainen, squatted with 3-4 stances.
During the last years, the box squat has become very popular in Finland. Janne Toivanen put it in practice by hauling up 804 in `96 IPF World's in Austria. Many have followed. Ano Turtiainen started using the box and now pulls over 859 in every meet he enters. Ismo Lappi, the new WR holder in 165´s in IPF, does box squats as assistance. Veli Kumpuniemi stated that if would have known how to use a box in his prime he would have lifted a lot more. How much more? He tore his hamstring while trying 804 in the 181´s back in 1981. He hit 822 ( 373 kilos ) in a national before that weighing under 190 pounds. All his hamstrings could handle he hauled up. He never really recovered but wanted to send his compliments to Louie Simmons for this excellent exercise.
# 3 Deadlift variety
Many still train the deadlift two times a week. In the early days, it was not rare to deadlift three times a week. Veli Kumpuniemi, the only man we call Mr Deadlift in Finland, trained deadlift sometimes four times a week. Here's some pulls to use:
Deadlift standing on the block. Many used 2-6 inch block and pulled standing on it. That has been a pull used very often. Many did these for 3-5 reps using conventional style even if they pulled sumo in meets.
Straigth leg deadlifts. These were done off floor or using a block under feet. There were two styles. Some pulled with a bent over style, rounding the lower back. Some, like Janne Toivanen, Ismo Lappi and Ano Turtiainen, pulled in a romanian style with arched back and pushing glutes to rear. With a round back, most used only 40-50% for high reps like 10´s or so. For the romanian style, some go quite heavy. Janne Toivanen hauled up 4x661 from an 4 inch box and Ano Turtiainen has done 5x727 off floor.
Olympic pulls. These were done many times as a warm-up or speed work before the deadlifting. High pulls, raw cleans, raw snatches were the most common. The old school did some pulls with straight legs like Russians.
Pulls with a snatch grip. This has two variations too. Some pulled the weight all the way up and some just up to past knees. These developed technique by forcing you to keep shoulders in line and it´s a good one correct technique.
Partials. Hannu Saarelainen did partials on knee level, just moving the bar from below to above the knee. The bar traveled 8-10 inches in the area where the leverages were the poorest. He did high reps with rather light weight. He tried to get speed too to overcome the sticking point as fast as possible. By concentrating on weakness enabled Hannu to pull 765 in 242´s with quite poor leverages for deadlift. Rack pulls and pulls where the bar is on blocks are common, although they do not benefit as many as you could imagine.
Hack deadlifts. Many long armed lifters were able to pull with the bar behind their back. This form of deadlift developed the leg drive and helped to get the bar off floor.
# 4 Technique
Veli Kumpuniemi stated that if his foot stance was half inch off, the bar stayed on floor. And Veli was ranked rather a power puller than a technique expert which he was too. The conventional deadlift was always mostly back work. But the sumo pullers were sort of split in two categories. People like Raimo Välineva and Hannu Malinen, the 1988 IPF World champion, used the hips alot. Raimo Välineva was the developer of the style maximized hip drive in sumo deadlift. Lifters with extreme tecnique had quite a difference between sumo and conventional deadlift. Ari Virtanen, the little brother of Jarmo had one of the best technique I have ever seen. Every weight he got off floor he finished too. Ari´s best conventional was around 570-580 and he pulled 677 with sumo in `91 World's. Pirjo Savola, the European Record holder in 123´s with 446 said she has a best conventional of 360-370 range.
Sumo lifters with a strong back, like Veli Kumpuniemi, Janne Toivanen and Aarre Käpylä locked out their legs way before extending their torso. Aarre Käpylä, who pulled 10x661 via conventional too, got the most out of his hips by keeping his legs almost straight. Jarmo Virtanen, an eight time IPF World champ, used the technique.
People used to think that Jarmo Virtanen was just very talented and had good leverages. They couldn't be more wrong. He had many things on perfecting the technique. Once he demonstrated the difference between relaxed and flexed shoulders. By dropping shoulders and using sumo, the distance was 12 inches shorter than using conventional with flexed upper body. He stressed the importance of being relaxed while deadlifting .
You should climb to tree from bottom. Most advised to learn to pull conventional first, then switch to sumo. Reijo Kiviranta, Kullervo Lampela and other conventional style greats stressed two key points. The is to push your knees over the bar in the start position. This brings the hips closer to bar and makes the leverages better. The other thing was to turn feet out. This helped the lockout and enabled specially the bigger lifters to use their hip muscles.
# 5 Basic strength and GPP
Like mentioned in beginning, many early day deadlifters did physical labor which laid good background for training heavy and often. Olympic lifting was an aid too.
Many of todays lifters don´t do any other physical work than train with weights. So the GPP has to come from somewhere else. Janne Toivanen did an extra workout six times a week, early in the morning. He did abs, side work and sometimes lower back work together with some aerobic training and streching. His training program would kill most people, but he found a way to back it up. Ismo Lappi does the same type of workouts too. It keeps the bodyfat low and aids recovery.
At the moment five or six our strongmen pull 800 pounds or more. They have long competitive season when their weight training is mostly for conditioning and recovery. Their training is one form of conjugate method. They carry, drag, lift stones and flip tires and cars using the same muscles that are important in deadlifting. Jukka Laine did 804 in September ´98 and had deadlifted twice during the summer. All he did was the event training and many meets. Jouko Aholas deadlift stayed in the same range with no deadlift training at all. He used a short cycle to peak and succeeded with 853 in meet. Janne Virtanen and Juha Räsänen both pull over 800 too, 837 is their best in training but either of them haven't attended in any meets so far.
# 6 Assistance work
Most supplemented their training with wide variety of assistance exercises. Two key muscle groups were upper back and lats and the abs.
As you noticed, I ranked Mr Deadlift, Veli Kumpuniemi as a strenght puller. Here's why. What do think about chins with up to 200 pounds for 5-6 reps, bent over rows using 400+ pounds or doing one arm rows with 185 pound dumbbell for 8-10 reps ? It was usual stuff for him and it was assistance work, not something he shot for.
Weighted chins are quite common still but the variety is wide. Ano Turtiainen likes to do lat pulls with different handles, and low pulley rows. He does chest supported and bent over rows too. Many do shrugs every now and then.
The lifters in the early 80`s or late 70`s trained abs with flat or incline sit-ups using weight many times. Side work was done using a short bar or dumbbell. One other thing they did was one arm deadlifts. They stressed the stabilizing muscles a lot too. Today a variety of leg raises, pull down abs in lat machine and abs done in a ab machine add the number of exercises alot. One thing that has become popular last years is the ab wheel. Most lifters do it on their knees using plate on their back, it targets the abs more instead of hip flexors.
As you see, the low back was trained pretty much with the main exercises, squats and pulls. The older school did also good mornings, mostly after squatting for 5-10 rep sets. Then they became a forgotten exercise until last years. Ano Turtiainen went way over 700 pounds using bands and two sets of chains as an extra resistance during his preparation for WPO semi´s. The other thing many did and still do is back extensions. These are usually done with a bar on back. Rauno Rinne used these regularly and pulled 799 in 220´s.
# 7 Jarmo Virtanen´s deadlift secrets
Jarmo Virtanen, who many consider the best powerlifter ever in Europe, was great in the deadlift. He was an excellent squatter too. Here's some things behind his success.
In his youth he trained both power lifting and weightlifting at the same time. He also trained other sports like football and has always done some sort of physical labor. His GPP has always been high. A lot of different squats and deadlifts insured a high SPP level. A nine time IPF World Champ did lifts like high bar, front and squats with different stances. He deadlifted with both conventional and sumo, he estimated that he may have done little more conventional work than sumo. Sometimes he used the snatch grip too. One of his deadlift variations was sumo off an 1 inch blocks. He sometimes went quite high on these, 694 was his best.
He pulled conventional sets where he stopped the bar before it hit the floor to develop static strength and tightness in the start position. When using sumo, he always did every rep as the first one. Jarmo said that bouncing the bar off is a waste specially in the sumo style. He developed speed by high pulls. He did not extend his hips in the weightlifting style. He continued the pull with upper back and traps to the navel level.
He had a picture perfect technique, specially in the ´80s when he hasn't hurt hips thigh. He developed that by squatting with an ultra wide stance, sometimes he used a Smith-machine to be able to squat as upright as possible. He practiced technique with no weights in front of mirror. It was his routine every day for six months. As far as assistance go, he did a lot of ab work but has never done good mornings. He felt they make you too stiff. He stressed the importance of being relaxed, specially in the upper body area and felt it was crucial for getting better leverages in the deadlift and squat too.
Jarmo never really maxed out in the gym and usually stayed under 300 kilos in training. He was great competitor. In 1988, in our national record breakers in the biggest ice hockey venue at the time, he hauled up 358 kilos twice but dropped it just before down signal. With torn hand, he came back and pulled it again just to loose the grip again before the ”down” command. Year before, when lifting in 75 kilo class he was on a roll. In the World's in Norway he opened with 677 and went to WR 333 and pulled it nicely. Then he attacked twice to 340,5 kilos ( 750 pounds ) but the grip was his nemesis. Before he got the grip problem fixed, he hurt his outer thigh. There was, and still is, some scar tissue that is pressing to nerves. With the grip he had in `90s and the better technique and flexibility of `80s he would have gone a lot more. Many times I have wondered why his squat went up 20 kilos but the deadlift stayed the same. Believe it or not, he never got the best out of him in the deadlift. A 815-826 deadlift and 900 kilo ( 1984 pound ) total where something he capable of but never achieved.
We have had lots of great pullers and power lifters and we had Jarmo Virtanen. He is one of a kind. One sign of his true sportsmanship was this interview. He has always willing to help anyone whether it is training, coaching or giving seminars.
Being a no class deadlifter myself, I have given this a lot of thought. Reijo Kiviranta, the 1981 World Champ in 242´s put it together nicely by saying that the one who lifts the most has trained the most. After reading this article, you can get a picture what he meant. There is no secrets at all, just pure hard work. It's the cold hard truth. If you want to finish on top you have to be a good deadllifter. So it's time for some deadlift labor, good luck!
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I mean I have a weakest genetics that man can have, I train back once a week, dead lift once of month, and my one rep max is still 380kg.
I'm just wondering if there anyone in Finland who can do that at the moment. ??? 3 at most. Just give us your name and reveal your greatness. ;D
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here is what i do when i travel and can't do regular olympic lifting training, modify for your purposes. given that you only have an hour, i would pick two exercises per workout. good luck.
Snatch-related exercises - pick 1-2 exercises, 5-7 sets of 1-3 reps
Overhead Squat
Hang Power Snatch - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Hang Snatch Pull - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Snatch Pull - from floor
Snatch Deadlift - from floor
Behind- Neck Push Press w/ Snatch grip
Clean-related exercises - pick 1-2 exercises, 5-7 sets of 1-3 reps
Hang Power Clean - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Hang Squat Clean - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Hang Clean Pull - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Clean Pull - from floor
Clean Deadlift - from floor
Clean Deadlift + Shrug
Lower-Body Strength Exercises - pick 1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Squat
Front Squat
RDL [Romanian Deadlift]
Good Morning
Lunges w/ barbell
Upper-Body Strength Exercises - pick 1-3 exercises, 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Push Press
Shoulder Press
Incline Press
Bench Press
Pull-Ups
Barbell Rows
Core Exercise - 3 sets of 15 each
Straight Leg Sit-Ups w/ weight
Back Extension w/ weight
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so you're saying you can only do one exercise in an hour? ::) ???
when I lift heavy yes.
for example sometimes I will only do squats on my leg day, going as heavy as I can even for 1rm
if I lift heavy I take long breaks between sets
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here is what i do when i travel and can't do regular olympic lifting training, modify for your purposes. given that you only have an hour, i would pick two exercises per workout. good luck.
Snatch-related exercises - pick 1-2 exercises, 5-7 sets of 1-3 reps
Overhead Squat
Hang Power Snatch - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Hang Snatch Pull - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Snatch Pull - from floor
Snatch Deadlift - from floor
Behind- Neck Push Press w/ Snatch grip
Clean-related exercises - pick 1-2 exercises, 5-7 sets of 1-3 reps
Hang Power Clean - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Hang Squat Clean - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Hang Clean Pull - try different start heights: mid-thigh, above knee, below knee
Clean Pull - from floor
Clean Deadlift - from floor
Clean Deadlift + Shrug
Lower-Body Strength Exercises - pick 1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Squat
Front Squat
RDL [Romanian Deadlift]
Good Morning
Lunges w/ barbell
Upper-Body Strength Exercises - pick 1-3 exercises, 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Push Press
Shoulder Press
Incline Press
Bench Press
Pull-Ups
Barbell Rows
Core Exercise - 3 sets of 15 each
Straight Leg Sit-Ups w/ weight
Back Extension w/ weight
Damn great post ever read any Bill Starr?