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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on June 22, 2009, 06:53:19 AM
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SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korea reminded the U.S. on Monday that it has nuclear weapons and warned it will strike back if attacked, as a U.S. destroyer continued to trail a North Korean cargo ship suspected of carrying illicit weapons.
The Kang Nam, previously involved in weapons shipments, is the first vessel monitored under new U.N. sanctions adopted after the North's nuclear test last month. It could become a test case for interception of North Korean ships at sea - something Pyongyang has said it would consider an act of war.
President Barack Obama said the U.S. is ready to cope with "any contingencies" amid reports the North appears to be preparing for a long-range missile test planned sometime around July 4, the Independence Day holiday. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered additional protections for Hawaii as a precaution.
The U.N. sanctions - punishment for an underground nuclear test North Korea conducted May 25 - firm up an earlier arms embargo against North Korea and authorize ship searches in an attempt to thwart the regime's nuclear and ballistic missile ambitions.
(AP) South Korean tourists read messages wishing for reunification of the two Koreas at an observation...
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The Kang Nam appeared headed to Myanmar via Singapore, the South Korean news network YTN reported Sunday, citing an unidentified intelligence source in South Korea.
Myanmar's military government, which faces an arms embargo from the United States and the European Union, reportedly has bought weapons from the North in the past.
On Monday, North Korea's main Rodong Sinmun newspaper called it "nonsense" to say the country is a threat to the U.S. The paper also warned it is prepared to strike back if attacked.
"As long as our country has become a proud nuclear power, the U.S. should take a correct look at whom it is dealing with," its said in commentary. "It would be a grave mistake for the U.S. to think it can remain unhurt if it ignites the fuse of war on the Korean peninsula."
The Rodong Sinmun also denounced Obama's recent pledge to defend and protect South Korea - even promising to keep Seoul "under the U.S. nuclear umbrella" - as an attempt to attack the North with atomic bombs.
(AP) A South Korean tourist walks past a posting of North Korea's map and a flag at an observation post...
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North Korea calls its nuclear program a deterrent against the U.S., which Pyongyang accuses of plotting an attack. The U.S., which has 28,500 troops in South Korea, has said it has no such intentions and no nuclear weapons on the peninsula.
But Obama said the U.S. is prepared for any North Korean provocation.
"This administration - and our military - is fully prepared for any contingencies," Obama said Friday during an interview with CBS News'"The Early Show" to be broadcast Monday.
"I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals," Obama said. "But I want ... to give assurances to the American people that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted in terms of what might happen."
Washington is considering sending former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger to China to persuade Beijing to enforce the U.N. sanctions against the North, Seoul's Chosun Ilbo newspaper said Monday, citing an unidentified high-level diplomatic source.
South Korea's Foreign Ministry said it could not confirm the report.
China is the North's biggest source of food, fuel and diplomatic support, and analysts have said the success of the U.N. sanctions depends on how aggressively Beijing implements them.
The Kang Nam left a North Korean port Wednesday and was being tracked by an American destroyer, two U.S. officials said Thursday. One official said it was uncertain what the ship was carrying but that it had been involved in weapons shipments before. Both spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss intelligence.
A senior U.S. military official told The Associated Press on Friday that the Japan-based USS John S. McCain was relatively close to the North Korean vessel but had no orders to intercept it. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
The Japanese Defense Ministry said Monday it did not have firsthand information about the two ships' whereabouts.
The U.S. ship, a guided missile destroyer, is named after the grandfather and father of U.S. Sen. John McCain.
Sen. McCain said Sunday that the U.S. should board the Kang Nam even without North Korean permission if hard evidence shows it is carrying missiles or other cargo in violation of U.N. resolutions.
"I think we should board it. It's going to contribute to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction to rogue nations that pose a direct threat to the United States," he said on CBS'"Face the Nation."
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Associated Press writer Mari Yamaguchi contributed to this report from Tokyo.
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it's this simple. A country with proven nukes and missile that may or may not reach us, has announced their intention to again fire on a US state.
I think this is a no-brainer. It's a declaration of war. If China or Russia or Iran decided to fire missiles at a US state, would there be any discussion? No, we'd retaliate.
What I can'd understand is how some leftist appeasers here, like Beach Bum for example, can just call such an action "saber rattling". NK has nukes, has missiles, and says they're going to fire on us. Sure, we may intercept the missiles. But that doesn't change the fact a nuclear nation has just declared war on us.
But I guess that's what you get when you wear those pacifist goggles.
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I missed where they went nuts like this under Bush. Do u honestly think there is no tie between this and Obama as president. They know he's weak and can be pushed around.
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Do u honestly think there is no tie between this and Obama as president. They know he's weak and can be pushed around.
They're doing exactly what they did under Bush.
I think they'd be doing it under mccain/mcpalin too.
They set off nukes in oct 2006 under Bush. They fired missiles at hawaii on july 4 of 2006. They're doing it again now.
Bush bribed them to cut it out. Obama sent in warships. Will he folow thru and put some lead in their ass? I have no clue. Will he pay them off with a million barrels of oil to pause their aggression for 2 years? I sure hope not.
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No they're not.....they're pushing him well past Bush. Barry can't concentrate on two issues at once, unless its spending tax money redistributing weath and destroying America. Bush continues a program started under Clinton. Bush pushed them to the table hoping China would pressure them. Under Barry there has been no pressure, they want to see how far they can push and they've gotten pretty damm far.
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No they're not.....they're pushing him well past Bush. Barry can't concentrate on two issues at once, unless its spending tax money redistributing weath and destroying America. Bush continues a program started under Clinton. Bush pushed them to the table hoping China would pressure them. Under Barry there has been no pressure, they want to see how far they can push and they've gotten pretty damm far.
what has NK done under Obama that they didn't do under Bush?
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The one point everyone is missing here is, Kim Jong IL, and his survival instinct. He could care less about the people of NK, but he is not going to push so far that he is in danger or being deposed or his life at risk.
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what has NK done under Obama that they didn't do under Bush?
Oh I don't know 240.....everything he did under Didn't happen on a weekly basis. But ur right Barry is doing great.
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I missed where they went nuts like this under Bush. Do u honestly think there is no tie between this and Obama as president. They know he's weak and can be pushed around.
Obama is not weak.
if anything they are taking advantage of multiple situations: the dire situation in their own country, the passover of leadership from Kim Jung Il to his son, the two ongoing wars, the economic meltdown, the situation in Iran, etc....
I doubt it has much of anythin to do with Obama but of course you and I are both just speculating as no one knows what goes on inside that country
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Obama is super weak..but beyond that I agree.
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who here thinks that if something had been done about NK from the get go, the "satellite" launch this would have escalated to this point?
I for one dont if something had been done then that would have sent a signal NK would have jawed and talked shit but nothing like this.
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US just needs to Nagasaki those morons.
China is not going to do anything. They won't dare. We owe them too much money.
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Obama is super weak..but beyond that I agree.
I dont agree that obama is super weak, but he has his lines stretched thin right now, no doubts there. Every regime that doesnt like the USA is trying to push their luck with Obama to see how far they can get...the same happened to Kennedy remember. The North Koreans are pushing it too far if im honest with you...Obama needs to sanction their arses back to the stone age, if they try any more funny stuff then you may have to think about doing something drastic...dont really want to think what that would entail
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China does not want to have to spend a nickel on feeding the refugees that will come streaming across their border. They don't want be seen by the West as having to turn away these people and they don't want to have to spend money and time "invading" nKorea to establish a buffer zone to deal with the refugee's. They really have very few alternatives other then the status quo. Barry needs to either get the UN to pay off China to assist with the refugee's and find an agreed upon area where US troops won't cross, once the regime emplodes. China does not want US troops on her border. If we can satisfy China, then nKorea is fucked.
Steevo ...nkorea is about sanctioned out. We are rapidly running out of soft moves. Thats not barry's fault, thats the way it is.
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Oh I don't know 240.....everything he did under Didn't happen on a weekly basis. But ur right Barry is doing great.
If you don't know, that renders your little "barrrrrryyyyyyyy" comment irrelevant.
As much as you would like to whine and blame Obama for what NKorea is doing, you can't.
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Of course I can Lurker....I can blame Barry for eveything, u morons did, with Bush, for the last 8 years. Besides I don't blame blame Barry for nKorea...I blame him for his non action, ridiculous statements and UN pandering. I blame him for his weakness on all things foreign policy.
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oh boohoohoo barry.... oh boohoo barry.... barry... barry... barry...
He's in your head so far it laughable.
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He's the president..are u capable of making a real argument. ::)
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Not if going by your rules as you conveniently forget it when reminded the same thing happened under Bush.
Nice try.
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The same thing happened under Bush? They developed a bomb, caused a stir, launched a rocket. That happened over 8 years. Bush got them to dismantle a reactor, took money, and got them to the table. Everything they've done to Barry has happened over a few months. Barry has done nothing, he couldn't even get a harsh letter approved in the UN.
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it's this simple. A country with proven nukes and missile that may or may not reach us, has announced their intention to again fire on a US state.
I think this is a no-brainer. It's a declaration of war. If China or Russia or Iran decided to fire missiles at a US state, would there be any discussion? No, we'd retaliate.
What I can'd understand is how some leftist appeasers here, like Beach Bum for example, can just call such an action "saber rattling". NK has nukes, has missiles, and says they're going to fire on us. Sure, we may intercept the missiles. But that doesn't change the fact a nuclear nation has just declared war on us.
But I guess that's what you get when you wear those pacifist goggles.
You're an idiot. But I find your trolling of Beach Bum to be at least mildly entertaining.
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Bush = 8 years
Obama = 6 months.
Don't worry. Your Boss will handle things.
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Bush = 8 years
Obama = 6 months.
Don't worry. Your Boss will handle things.
So what's your point? The day Bush left the white house the problems ceased to be his, and the day Obama walk into the white house the problems became his.
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Bush = 8 years
Obama = 6 months.
Don't worry. Your Boss will handle things.
Yeah when...worthlesssssssss. ....weak...scared...afra id.....naive......
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The point is, contrary to popular whining, the entire issue isn't 100% Obama's fault.
That should be remarkably obvious to most anyone.
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Bush = 8 years
Obama = 6 months.
Don't worry. Your Boss will handle things.
All the dick twisting about which President "handled things" and such is a bit ridiculous. Lets face it, there is only so much "soft" we can do, no matter who is president, until it loses effectiveness and we have to start some "hard" approaches. We need China to go along but we also have a military that is stretched thin and may even be over deployed as is.
as HH6 said our "soft" options are just about done. Obama is new and inexperienced so he will (and is) getting pushed hard from all angles. Where he chooses to go from here is anyones guess. Is Obama prepared to make the call to not only intercept the missile but also to hit the launch and production areas for them inside NK borders? Is he ready for a full-scale war? The U.S. military engaged in 3 separate wars at the same time? A butchers bill written in blood? How far will he go, or will he choose to go far at all?
Yes it matters who is in the Oval Office during times such as these, but it also matters what our geo-political, economic situation is as well. These variables def. hinder our freedom of movement concerning events.
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Yeah when...worthlesssssssss. ....weak...scared...afra id.....naive......
WHIIIINNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEE!!!!
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All the dick twisting about which President "handled things" and such is a bit ridiculous. Lets face it, there is only so much "soft" we can do, no matter who is president, until it loses effectiveness and we have to start some "hard" approaches. We need China to go along but we also have a military that is stretched thin and may even be over deployed as is.
as HH6 said our "soft" options are just about done. Obama is new and inexperienced so he will (and is) getting pushed hard from all angles. Where he chooses to go from here is anyones guess. Is Obama prepared to make the call to not only intercept the missile but also to hit the launch and production areas for them inside NK borders? Is he ready for a full-scale war? The U.S. military engaged in 3 separate wars at the same time? A butchers bill written in blood? How far will he go, or will he choose to go far at all?
Yes it matters who is in the Oval Office during times such as these, but it also matters what our geo-political, economic situation is as well. These variables def. hinder our freedom of movement concerning events.
Most people wait until AFTER action is taken to judge how someone handles it.
Except people who like to whine all the time.
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Most people wait until AFTER action is taken to judge how someone handles it.
Except people who like to whine all the time.
But when will action be taken? Will any action be taken?
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But when will action be taken? Will any action be taken?
Those questions can be what an intelligent discussion could take place about here.
Instead we just get more of the same old barrrrrryyyyy this barrrrrryyyyyyyy that barrrry barrry barry whine that goes on. No actual discussion of any depth to the issue, just finger pointing and whining.
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I missed where they went nuts like this under Bush. Do u honestly think there is no tie between this and Obama as president. They know he's weak and can be pushed around.
You must have missed the part during Bush's disasterous run as president where N. Korea was firing missiles all over the joint and setting off underground nuclear bombs.
Why are you taking this crap seriously? You speak in earnest as if N. Korea is some sort of a threat to the US.
I heard that Tonga was speaking shit about us as well. Something about opening a can of whoopass on us.
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You must have missed the part during Bush's disasterous run as president where N. Korea was firing missiles all over the joint and setting off underground nuclear bombs.
Why are you taking this crap seriously? You speak in earnest as if N. Korea is some sort of a threat to the US.
I heard that Tonga was speaking shit about us as well. Something about opening a can of whoopass on us.
I don't expect u or Lurker to understand anything beyond ur narrow naive world outlook.
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Those questions can be what an intelligent discussion could take place about here.
Instead we just get more of the same old barrrrrryyyyy this barrrrrryyyyyyyy that barrrry barrry barry whine that goes on. No actual discussion of any depth to the issue, just finger pointing and whining.
actions already been taken lurker he has done nothing doing nothing is an action in this case...
funny how nobody has answered my question
who here thinks that if something had been done about NK from the get go, the "satellite" launch this would have escalated to this point?
I for one dont if something had been done then that would have sent a signal NK would have jawed and talked shit but nothing like this.
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I don't expect u or Lurker to understand anything beyond ur narrow naive world outlook.
Then again, you probably thought Iraq was a threat.
See, nucular capability is just going to keep increasing. Your 'kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out' approach is a dead end. It doens't work anymore. The US and GB kept the genie in the bottle for 60 years. Times up.
Now we all suffer the fate of fools wrought by the military/religious mindset. Military - the muscle of capitalism and Religion - the end times are near...have been for 2000 years.
Thanks guys.
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I don't expect u or Lurker to understand anything beyond ur narrow naive world outlook.
No, we just don't go playing along in delusional Johnny Rambo fantasies while digging up every single instance we can for whining about Obama.
Oh look... sky's blue. WHINNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEE it's Obamas fault.
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Then again, you probably thought Iraq was a threat.
See, nucular capability is just going to keep increasing. Your 'kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out' approach is a dead end. It doens't work anymore. The US and GB kept the genie in the bottle for 60 years. Times up.
Now we all suffer the fate of fools wrought by the military/religious mindset. Military - the muscle of capitalism and Religion - the end times are near...have been for 2000 years.
Thanks guys.
Rational logic doesn't penetrate the delusion bubble the Bush/Cheney conservative crowd resides in.
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Military...allowing douchbag libs the ability breath free air....Hey Lurker u doucbag libs blamed bush for everything but now Barry is in charge and he's failing.
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who here thinks that if something had been done about NK from the get go, the "satellite" launch this would have escalated to this point?
I for one dont if something had been done then that would have sent a signal NK would have jawed and talked shit but nothing like this.
anybody?
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now Barry is in charge and he's failing.
By who's opinion? Certainly not by those pesky little polls that still show him ahead.
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Polls represent feelings. I can turn on the news and watch him failing daily. Healthcare in trouble, Tarp and bailouts not working, GM bankrupt, nKorea threatening war, massive debt increase unlike anything in our history...should I continue.
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Military...allowing douchbag libs the ability breath free air....Hey Lurker u doucbag libs blamed bush for everything but now Barry is in charge and he's failing.
Hahahaaaaa Face the facts Socialist Chump, you're a goddamn Freeloader! It appears your WHOLE LIFE revolves around SOMEONE ELSE taking care of you!
HH6 = Free healthcare, Free college, Free housing, Free food, Free pension, Free Honeymoon...
HH6 = If it's Free = It's 4 me! (Fucck everyone else!)
Do me a favor Boy, take your Rush Limbaugh Capitalist Bullshit and shove it up your ass.
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Hey mons....do us a favor and post ur dd214...so we can see we're u got bounced. I pay rent/morgage, no free house. I buy my own food ::). I paid for my own college...the only difference between me and u is that u just don't matter.
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Hey mons....do us a favor and post ur dd214...so we can see we're u got bounced. I pay rent/morgage, no free house. I buy my own food ::). I paid for my own college...the only difference between me and u is that u just don't matter.
Truth sucks. You're part of our deficit problem. :-*
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Waaaa I was thrown out of the military. I'm the only part of the gov that works. I also hope u realize how utterly retarded u sound. But ur right we don't need a military. After all u were to tough for em right?
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Waaaa I was thrown out of the military. I'm the only part of the gov that works. I also hope u realize how utterly retarded u sound. But ur right we don't need a military. After all u were to tough for em right?
Served 4 yrs, fought in 2 wars/conflicts, then walked away. Started and run a successful business. Sorry to burst your bubble Jarhead.
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I'm not a Marine. Post ur 214. When were u in exactly douchbag. We went from served four years to two wars...ok bud. I don't have a bubblr to burst, I don't care.
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Military...allowing douchbag libs the ability breath free air..
tax payers.....giving worthless gi's a reason to feel important
its a sad day when i have to defend such a statement. It was warranted though, hh6 youre...ah fuk it. Grow up.
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No....Mons and a few others have nothing better to do, so I'll continue to combat thier idiocy.
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meh, looking at his avy
i guess you have a point
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Another pathetic rant by the government patriot lackey HH6. What's new? LMAO! Dude you're pathetic. I can't stand Obama but to blame him for the problems of NK is ignorant. What do you expect his ass to do? You're in the fucking military dipshit. You are intelligence supposedly right? NK could kill thousands of GI's and South Koreans in a matter of hours if they wanted to. Why the fuck do you think Clinton or Bush Jr. never did shit except sanctions? It's a damn hornet's nest and what to do with NK isn't easy. It could very well spark WWIII or a major regional conflict. One in which the US is in no position militarily or financially to fight. If everyone on the US military is as fucking dumb and ignorant about world politics and foreign policy as you are so help me god there better not be a fucking draft cause I'd probably end up shooting idiots like you instead of the enemy. :)
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Another rant by yet another naive and worthless asshole. Barry could have avoided all this months ago but sat on his ass as usual. nKorea isn't going to war, they want concessions and money. But nice meltdown.
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I missed where they went nuts like this under Bush. Do u honestly think there is no tie between this and Obama as president. They know he's weak and can be pushed around.
are you fuckin shittin me.
you can read more here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_Korean_nuclear_test
2006 North Korean nuclear test
North Korea had been suspected of maintaining a clandestine nuclear weapons development program since the early 1990s when it constructed a plutonium-producing Magnox nuclear reactor at Yongbyon, and various diplomatic means had been used by the international community to attempt to limit North Korea's nuclear work to peaceful and scientific means and encouraging North Korea to participate in international treaties. In 1994, the United States and North Korea signed the "Agreed Framework", whereby North Korea agreed to freeze its plutonium production program in exchange for fuel, economic cooperation, and the construction of two modern nuclear power plants powered by light-water reactors. Eventually, North Korea's existing nuclear facilities were to be dismantled, and the spent reactor fuel taken out of the country.
However, in 2002, rumors circulated that North Korea was pursuing both uranium enrichment technology and plutonium reprocessing technologies in defiance of the Agreed Framework North Korea reportedly told American diplomats in private that they were in possession of nuclear weapons, citing American failures to uphold their own end of the "Agreed Framework" as a motivating force. North Korea later clarified that it did not possess weapons yet, but that it had a right to possess them. In late 2002 and early 2003, North Korea began to take steps to eject International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors while re-routing spent fuel rods for plutonium reprocessing for weapons purposes. Throughout the course of 2003, North Korean and American officials exchanged harsh words and staged military exercises which were interpreted by the other party to be aggressive. As late as the end of 2003, North Korea claimed that it would freeze its nuclear program in exchange for American concessions – in particular a non-aggression treaty – but a final agreement was not reached and talks continued to be cancelled or fall through. North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 2003 after not receiving light-water reactors promised by the U.S. which were going to be delivered in exchange for North Korea not developing their own power plants, as understood in the "Agreed Framework."
In early 2004 former Los Alamos National Laboratory director Siegfried S. Hecker, as part of an unofficial U.S. delegation, was allowed to inspect North Korea's plutonium production facilities. Hecker later testified before the United States Congress that while North Korea seems to have successfully extracted plutonium from the spent fuel rods, he saw no evidence at the time that they had actually produced a workable weapon.[7] In September 2004, though, North Korean officials announced they had successfully processed Yongbyon plutonium into a workable nuclear deterrent. Through 2005 more diplomatic talks were attempted between the United States, North Korea, South Korea, China, Japan, and Russia (the six-party talks) but little concrete change occurred.
Because North Korea had not conducted a successful test of a nuclear device, the extent of its nuclear weapons program remained ambiguous through 2005 and much of 2006. Though North Korea conducted numerous missile tests (some of which were branded failures by international experts), the question of whether they had actually mastered all aspects of nuclear weapons technology – ranging from material production to complex nuclear weapon design needed to produce the final detonation – remains unanswered.
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Another rant by yet another naive and worthless asshole. Barry could have avoided all this months ago but sat on his ass as usual. nKorea isn't going to war, they want concessions and money. But nice meltdown.
By doing what?
What could he have done?
Why didn't Bush do those same things then?
Bush you liked, and he did nothing... Why not?
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Yeah no kidding....and Barry is doing nothing...and its full speed ahead.
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I view Obama's stance on North Korea as the same thing as Bush or Clintons stance on the death penalty while running for president.
Most presidents or presidential hopefuls need an issue to make them look tough, but take little effort.
North Korea is like this. Obama can play hardball because in the end North Korea will either back down or will get obliterated if they do something foolish.
Its like death penalty its makes them look tough on crime but it takes very little effort and resources.
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Barry has come to the end of talk and sanctions. I think he already put em back on the terror list and I think they froze accounts in Maccau. If he hasn't he will. Now what? Bush knew China was the key and got nKorea to the table with their help. I think China is sick of all of it. Barry has let em go from what they did under Bush to making actual nuclear theats. My point is that he could have knocked the satelite down, dragged em back to the table and accomplished something. We will see a conventional war coming, nukes are different.
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He can also take that ship the McCain is shadowing, if they think it has weapons on board. Thats a violation of UN resolutions governing sanctions against nKorea. Barry may be reluctant because somebody searched it some years before, thinking it was carring weapons. I can buy that but the nKoreans will see that as another sign of weakness by Obama and the UN. Barry has worked himself into a no win situation.
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He can also take that ship the McCain is shadowing, if they think it has weapons on board. Thats a violation of UN resolutions governing sanctions against nKorea. Barry may be reluctant because somebody searched it some years before, thinking it was carring weapons. I can buy that but the nKoreans will see that as another sign of weakness by Obama and the UN. Barry has worked himself into a no win situation.
What should he have done? You haven't even answered that... Knocking down a satellite? That's your big answer?
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Thats a start...that triggered all thats followed. The answer to anything we do to nKorea, has been "war". So we're no further along now as then. They want something. Kim knows he's gone if we go to war. Thats not the right answer. So far Kim has gotten everything he's wanted since Clinton. Iran and nKorea are linked.
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Thats a start...that triggered all thats followed. The answer to anything we do to nKorea, has been "war". So we're no further along now as then. They want something. Kim knows he's gone if we go to war. Thats not the right answer. So far Kim has gotten everything he's wanted since Clinton. Iran and nKorea are linked.
Hahaha! Dude... You sound so ridiculous.
Knocking down a satellite is the key to dealing with North Korea... Everyone listen to this.
Forget sanctions, frozen bank accounts, the potential to get their country blown off the face of the earth... All Obama had to do was knock down a satellite!!
Damn, this international diplomacy thing must be pretty simple I guess... How come no one has thought of this before!?!
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This isn't stimulating reading but what they say is that there is more room to take more cash. Further we need to make sure that nKorea knows that we're cutting off the cash and then seeing what they do. It calls for a unified front from all players.
To avoid eventual catastrophe, Messrs. Obama and Lee must discard the comforting illusions that have permitted generations of statesmen to sleepwalk through nearly two decades of progressively mounting North Korean nuclear menace. The continuing, overarching failure of Western diplomacy with North Korea is due to a flaw in fundamental premises. Washington, Seoul and others have long assumed (or hoped) that Pyongyang will have an interest in helping us to "solve" the "problem" it poses to us. But nothing could be further from the truth. Our North Korean "problem" is their North Korean "solution."
North Korea's strategy, accordingly, is to make what we regard as the "North Korean nuclear problem" bigger--much bigger. Kim Jong Il has been patiently and methodically laying his groundwork for years. The regime needs not only a stockpile of nuclear weapons, but an inventory of intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads. The eventual purpose is to threaten the American heartland. To date, North Korea has attempted two nuclear detonations and amassed a stockpile of atomic devices.
Once we conceptualize the North Korean problem in terms of "threat reduction," the cards are in our hands.The only way forward is a fundamental paradigm shift in dealings with Pyongyang: The goal of the United States and its partners should not be a negotiation breakthrough but rather a threat reduction. This can be carried out in many separate theaters. In the Korean peninsula, it would require inter alia a significant redress of Pyongyang's military menace against Seoul. In the Northeast Asian region, more effective missile defense, an enhanced proliferation security initiative and a more muscular police effort against criminal sources of state revenue for Pyongyang would all seem in order. Globally, one could envision a more serious international human-rights strategy for North Korea that involves Europe and the United Nations; a more activist approach to bring North Korea to court on its world-wide violations of commercial contracts; and more carefully tailored initiatives to emphasize North Korea compliance with her existing international obligations. (Note that military instruments of coercion have not been mentioned here.)
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So it's NOT knocking down a Satellite?
Is it or isn't it?
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Hahaha! Dude... You sound so ridiculous.
Knocking down a satellite is the key to dealing with North Korea... Everyone listen to this.
Forget sanctions, frozen bank accounts, the potential to get their country blown off the face of the earth... All Obama had to do was knock down a satellite!!
Damn, this international diplomacy thing must be pretty simple I guess... How come no one has thought of this before!?!
Ok dude...since u have no idea what we should do, we'll just allow a porn addicted midget to bully us. We've run the rope on sanctions. When u can actually debate and bring facts, let me know. The article mentions more money...see I'm providing facts and opinion. My opinion is that he should have shot down the satelite. That ship has sailed.
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As I said when this happeded, Japan was prepared to waste it...Barry told em to stand down. U guys got wrapped around the axle on what the morning brief looked like.
As was the case during the last round of missile tests, Japan took the lead in condemning North Korea by pursuing tough U.N. sanctions. Since North Korea launched a missile over Japan in 1998, Japan has enhanced its ballistic-missile defense capabilities and identified the legal authorities that allow it to respond militarily within the confines of its pacifist constitution. In response to North Korea's most recent provocation, Japan's national-security authorities issued an order to "take measures to destroy ballistic missiles," enabling it to destroy any debris that might have landed on Japan's territory. Japan also deployed Aegis destroyers equipped with SM-3 surface-to-air interceptor missiles to the Sea of Japan and the Pacific, as well as Patriot Advanced Capability 3 missiles (PAC 3) to protect key assets in Japan.
But Tokyo harbored doubts about how Washington would react. While the U.S. also readied warships and missile-defense systems, it made clear that it would not intercept the missile. The Commander of the U.S. Pacific Command, Adm. Timothy J. Keating, asserted that Washington has the capability to shoot down the missile. But before the launch, Secretary of Defense Gates stated the U.S. would not shoot it down unless it was headed towards U.S. territory. The message to Japan was clear: We will protect our territory but not yours.
The U.S.-Japanese alliance is the cornerstone of peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region, grounded in the joint promotion of democratic values and free-market principles.This is just a further indication of a growing split in the American-Japanese perception of the threat from North Korea. During the latest round of multilateral North Korean disarmament negotiations, termed the Six Party Talks, in 2007, the U.S. broke from Japan by removing Pyongyang from the list of state sponsors of terror, never made North Korean missiles an issue for negotiation, and appeared ready to settle for a freeze of plutonium production at one known nuclear site, Yongbyon. Japan is still very concerned about other nuclear production sites and the highly-enriched-uranium program North Korea claimed it had in 2003. Essentially Washington's policy amounts to accepting North Korea as a nuclear state, trying to deter it from proliferating, and defending the American homeland. This is not an altogether acceptable policy for a Japan that sits within range of North Korea's short- and medium-range missile force and is usually the main recipient of North Korea's rhetorical bellicosity.
Perhaps there really is no other option but to accept North Korea as a nuclear state, deter it from using or proliferating, and wait out Kim and his cronies. Even so, we owe our key ally more.
Pyongyang has given Tokyo an incentive to enhance its own security role, and we should keep encouraging that development. The United States and Japan have increased ballistic-missile defense cooperation over the past few years. And Japan is certainly more prepared to defend itself than it was a decade ago. But unfortunately the Obama administration has indicated that it will cut further development of missile defenses. North Korea's launch was proof positive that this is exactly the wrong move. The two countries should explore all missile-defense options, including airborne lasers. Further, the two countries should start to build an independent conventional strike capability for Japan, to include export variants of the F-22 Raptor and the entire suite of air support and ISR capabilities needed for Japan to launch its own strikes against North Korean missile sites and launchers. Pyongyang may have checkmated the United States into passivity because of its ability to devastate South Korea. But Japan is not bound by an alliance with South Korea and has more freedom of action to defend itself, with less risk of escalation.
The U.S.-Japanese alliance is the cornerstone of peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region, grounded in the joint promotion of democratic values and free-market principles. Washington cannot let Pyongyang create an irreparable rift between the two allies. If we have decided that we are moving to a containment policy, and all indications are that we have, we must help Japan defend itself during the many years it will take to wait for a more reasonable leadership to take charge in Pyongyang.
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Ok dude...since u have no idea what we should do, we'll just allow a porn addicted midget to bully us. We've run the rope on sanctions. When u can actually debate and bring facts, let me know. The article mentions more money...see I'm providing facts and opinion. My opinion is that he should have shot down the satelite. That ship has sailed.
I can tell you what I would do, and it's not knocking down a satellite.
I would talk with China and I would tell them in no certain terms that if NK keeps this up, then we will drop so many bombs on them that their country will look like a waste land... You can stop us if you want to, OR you can tell Lil' Kim to sit down and shut the fuck up because one more missile launch will get his ass handed to him
Now... The bottom line is that you, nor I, have ANY idea of what Obama is or is not going to do now... I can tell you one factual thing though, knocking down a satellite wouldn't have done shit and you damn well know it, but because the HNIC didn't do it, you're going to put him on blast acting like he fucked up somehow, which you and I truly both know he did not.
This is going to be just like the Somali pirates who got ass raped... Obama is going to think this shit over and in the end, if he's got to pull the trigger, it's going to be some dead bodies and shit will get back to normal.
When it happens, come back and tell me all about how your boss got the job done, ok?
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Its a show of force. We have zero leverage over China so forget it. We've warned nKorea a billion times. These people have been playing the West since Kim Il Sung died and Clinton was president. I can tell u I have a better idea then u what Barry will or might do, and it appears besides moving a radar dish into the Pacific, he's not doing anything. Knocking that satelite down would have stopped them dead in their tracks. It would have told both nKorea and Iran that Barry is serious and not a paper tiger, as is believed. How many times have u been to South Korea in the last 8 months? The South is worried about Washington and so is Japan. U don't think they see what's happened with Israel. Somalian boat pirates and a renagade nation with nukes aren't even close to the same. Also get back to me when u understand JSOC rules of engagement. Right now we have the ship. He can take it down, do nothing, have a proxy do something etc. Barry has a choice, not a false choice as he likes to say, but a real choice.
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Hell Barry could waste the nuke sites but he won't do that either. I think he's weak, u think he's measured and tough. He's been a day late and a dollar short in Iran and he's been his usual worthless self in nkorea.
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Hell Barry could waste the nuke sites but he won't do that either. I think he's weak, u think he's measured and tough. He's been a day late and a dollar short in Iran and he's been his usual worthless self in nkorea.
BUSH, REagan, or BUSH Jr, wouldn't waste the nuke sites. Nothing different would have happen under any president.
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Not saying he will....its yet another option that has been talked about.
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Actually under Clinton and Bush Jr. Most of the nuclear sites were decommissioned. It wasn't until earlier this year that some of the main plutonium reactors were restarted.
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/618218
North Korea to restart reactor
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Apr 14, 2009 03:12 PM
I thought the War games HH6 was a part of during the latest missile test was actually the Americans getting ready for a conventional war, after Japan shot down the missile.
Barry has no balls or else he wouldn't have played chicken and lost.
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i didn't see the satelite launch over japan as a test of obama. He COULD have intervened, but there was zero threat to the USA, and it was just a satelite launch, right? Is it illegal to launch a satellite? Don't companies do that shit all the time now?
Now, if they fire a rocket at the US, I think obama will knock it down. This was a satelite over japan. Nothing but dick measuring contest, no weapon of any kind.
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I'm so ronrey
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Since this entire little rant and whine session is brought to us by the same guy that said three Somali pirates were "testing" Obama and Obama failed (hahahahaa hindsight says different), it is only expected that he doesn't have the first idea of what reality and logic resembles.
Some know nothing potato counter in the military calling Obama weak? Now that is as weak as one can get. Must suck to wake up with that outlook everyday.
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Its a show of force. We have zero leverage over China so forget it. We've warned nKorea a billion times. These people have been playing the West since Kim Il Sung died and Clinton was president. I can tell u I have a better idea then u what Barry will or might do, and it appears besides moving a radar dish into the Pacific, he's not doing anything. Knocking that satelite down would have stopped them dead in their tracks. It would have told both nKorea and Iran that Barry is serious and not a paper tiger, as is believed. How many times have u been to South Korea in the last 8 months? The South is worried about Washington and so is Japan. U don't think they see what's happened with Israel. Somalian boat pirates and a renagade nation with nukes aren't even close to the same. Also get back to me when u understand JSOC rules of engagement. Right now we have the ship. He can take it down, do nothing, have a proxy do something etc. Barry has a choice, not a false choice as he likes to say, but a real choice.
we do...we owe them money
on another note...My father (NAM vet) said that he thinks the US could end this with NK tomorrow if we wanted. His exact words were "Son we could go to "war" with NK and not loose one solider, 1 bomber and the shit is over. We should bomb the fuck out of that dog eating nip and turn North Korea into a lake"
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we do...we owe them money
on another note...My father (NAM vet) said that he thinks the US could end this with NK tomorrow if we wanted. His exact words were "Son we could go to "war" with NK and not loose one solider, 1 bomber and the shit is over. We should bomb the fuck out of that dog eating nip and turn North Korea into a lake"
Would have trusted him more if he was a korean vet
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Would have trusted him more if he was a korean vet
he is too young for korea. 3 tours in nam...
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he is too young for korea. 3 tours in nam...
It's a miracle he did three tours and made it out man... Good thing too. ;D