Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: dexterJ on June 23, 2009, 03:29:59 PM
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google it..is it good for newbie guys?
http://www.forbodybuilders.net/bb-show-preparation/workout-suggestions-from-ifbb-pro-bodybuilder/
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anybody use his training?
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the suggested workout is very similar to what i do in the gym... i won't bore you all with my workout but my view has always been "if it ain't broken, don't fix it"
as long as you have squats, deadlifts, bench and other basic movements in your workout you're on the right track
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as long as you have squats, deadlifts, bench and other basic movements in your workout you're on the right track
The stuff the books says isn't always the best, there are plenty of other alternatives that can be better or just as good.
Deadlifts are not necessary for BB and are a nice way to ruin a back. Once a back is injured, it's a headache to recover from if ever, while it adversely effects most of workouts for other areas.
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The stuff the books says isn't always the best, there are plenty of other alternatives that can be better or just as good.
Deadlifts are not necessary for BB and are a nice way to ruin a back. Once a back is injured, it's a headache to recover from if ever, while it adversely effects most of workouts for other areas.
Ive gotten the best results from deadlifting...
thicker legs, back, arms, and even shoulders (traps) but thats me...
not to speak out against pumpster but everyone is different and what books say arent the best so in other words figure out what works for you
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Deadlift only give me a back problems next 2-3 days..
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The stuff the books says isn't always the best, there are plenty of other alternatives that can be better or just as good.
Deadlifts are not necessary for BB and are a nice way to ruin a back. Once a back is injured, it's a headache to recover from if ever, while it adversely effects most of workouts for other areas.
as i said it was just my opinion... honestly though I would challenge anyone to find me 10 bodybuilders who have competed at least once who have been hurt by deadlifts...
it's been my experience that most people who hurt themselves at the gym just plain hurt themselves, either by using too much weight too soon, improper warm up or improper technique...
deadlifts do not need to be done as a maximal lift exercise... for a couple of year i used to do sets os 15-20 with only 225 at the end of back day... god i cringe to think about that now... it was brutal
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The thing is, the lower back gets a lot of work already, from squats and rows for example. If more direct work is needed i think it's better to stick with hyperextensions or high rep rack pulls or DLs.
It's true that there doesn't seem to be a lot of injuries from them, but on the other hand i'm not sure that most pros actually do them regularly, especially heavy. Schwarzenegger for example, i can remember either one or no pics of him deadlifting, same with some of the other names. You've got guys like Coleman who seems almost indestructible, but then there are others like Dillet, Wheeler, etc. where i can't remember ever seeing do deadlifts.
Whatever the exercise, the majority of guys learn to avoid extremely heavy exercises later in their careers. Levrone's pec tear a case in point.
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The thing is, the lower back gets a lot of work already, from squats and rows for example. If more direct work is needed i think it's better to stick with hyperextensions or high rep rack pulls or DLs.
It's true that there doesn't seem to be a lot of injuries from them, but on the other hand i'm not sure that most pros actually do them regularly, especially heavy. Schwarzenegger for example, i can remember either one or no pics of him deadlifting, same with some of the other names.
are you kidding? arnie deadlifted like a mofo!!!
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=348046&d=1163709571)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=348057&d=1163710806)
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my personal fav
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery3/m233.jpg)
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are you kidding? arnie deadlifted like a mofo!!!
Good examples, but the first two are early when he was doing strong man stuff in Europe, not just BB. He didn't do that later and the last one's shopped-according to that pic he's using about 3 times the amount he's using in the first two lol.
Get me some Dillet, Wheeler and other top guys doing DLs. Not that many, because with the exception of someone like Coleman it's not smart to go heavy on anything later in the career. Even Coleman only did that for vids, normally he kept the reps up to 15 or more, minimizing potential injury.
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i agree... i think deadlifts are awesome (awesome for me) but i never go below 8 reps anymore...
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Once again, pumpster bullying a poster into seeing things his way. ::)
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Once again, pumpster bullying a poster into seeing things his way. ::)
Interesting interpretation, especially coming from someone on the "positive" board. ??? Actually it's just discourse, and i have strong opinions but the back and forth and debate is a good thing.
What brings him here, it's never about contributing anything useful that's a fact. Methinks it was probably a pm inviting this troll to surface. ;D
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Many years i did deadlift with over 400lbs
finally i had a pinched disc (i had to stop working out during 4 months)
i gave up deadlift and now i do pull ups and different rows and my back is better and pain free
A trap bar can be used, more comfortable than a straight bar but quads are more involved
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i did maxx 8 x 480lbs...then 7 days big big problems..now no more
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The fact of the matter is that deadlifts (squats, shrugs, ...) will place more strain on your spine than other exercises. This need not lead to injuries but it WILL result in more wear and tear which can get back to you in later years.
Obviously they DO work great. Knowing what I know now, would I ever let someone who could go for a long bb career do them? No way, the cons outweigh the benefits. (for longterm size)
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The Trap bar shown is ideal for DL'ing. The grip is more natural (thumbs forward) and the knee's are out of the way. You just get a better feel for the lift.
Problem with a straight bar is the knee's being in the way for most people. Which to avoid this, the lifter must bend forward too much, which can put undo pressure on the lower back/spine hinge function. This can usually end up being those half DL/half rounded back SLDL's that are murder on the ligaments/connective tissue and spinal disc's. Some men, who are more natural DL'ers, squaters or BP'ers and have a body and leverage built for that lift, seem to thrive on these heavy compound exercises .Plus they do the movements the correct way with help from good coaching and gym time. They only get better. Elite Pl'ers& OL'ers come to mind. They are the chosen few.
Might find that most forms of DL'ing are meant to be a leg/glute/hip exercise. The lifter is only holding the bar in place (shoulders back...head up) while the legs/lower body do the actual lifting (pushing with the legs,should not be pulling from the floor). If still feeling pain in the lower back after doing DL'ing for a while (even years), than you might want to check your form on the lift. Guy's tend to macho out on this exercise and use weight that they are not ready for. Most ego lifts (BP's included...blown shoulders come to mind) will bring on the pain.
Holding a heavy weight in place for a short period of time has many benefits. Thicker traps, lats & lower lumbar area as an example as one does DL'ing. Seen many guy's improve squating, benches, overhead pressing and even arm size/strength (curls) this way. Seems to be a lost art in modern weight training. Good Luck.
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are you kidding? arnie deadlifted like a mofo!!!
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=348046&d=1163709571)
Monster shortage of 45's.
Ghetto Euro presentation.
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Monster shortage of 45's.
Ghetto Euro presentation.
haha
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holy shit! Arnold deadlifted 710!
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omfg 710..its not a joke...
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I squat decent. I bench just 315. Never done more.
But I deadlift 520 for reps. They really helped me grow. As I started to develop back problems (inevitable)- I had the discs checked out to see exactly what was going on.
BY that time I had already gained a good amount of solid muscle.
I think it is much safer to do partial deads in a rack. Use a nice Velcro belt that can really support the back.
I don't like squatting too much. I have to wrap and the benefit to risk ratio doesn't work in my favor on the heavy squats, so, I squat lighter in a Smith rack.
I was never much of a bench presser. Didnt like my shoulders hangin of the bench waiting to dislocate. I built my check with dumbells and cable flies and dips.
Heavy heavy weights are gonna get you sooner or later. Injuries can be permanent.
Skip la Cour swears by heavy weights and low reps. Frank Zane swears by moderate weight and higher reps. Do you wanna be a powerlifter or a bodybuilder?
Once your body starts aging a bit, the logical answer seems to takeover.
Be careful with the full range deadlifts.
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Schwarzenegger never DLed heavy past the young and stupid age, which is what most BBs do then learn better through exprience. I doubt anyone can find a pic of him actually lifting anything heavy on DLs in the 70s or beyond, just as with most BBs excepting a few who rarely got injured, like Columbu and Coleman.
Risk of Injuries
Some injuries that may occur while deadlifting is lumbar hernias, slipped discs (lumbar), sprains, and muscle tears including the biceps while using an supinated/pronated grip. The vast majority of injuries happen due to poor technique which puts the body in a compromised position to efficiently lift the weight; so the lifter will forgo form and tries to muscle the weight up. Even with perfect technique one could still sustain injuries due to muscle imbalances and inflexible muscles. The most common injury that is not associated with improper technique is bicep tears in the hand that is supinated with the alternated grip.
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I got injured in the squat after neglecting the deadlift for about a month due to laziness and justifying it through labelling as as a "dangerous" exercise... is there a connection there?
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I got injured in the squat after neglecting the deadlift for about a month due to laziness and justifying it through labelling as as a "dangerous" exercise... is there a connection there?
Doing DLs wouldn't have made any difference, wouldn't have saved your back from whatever mistakes you made or from going too heavy.
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Doing DLs wouldn't have made any difference, wouldn't have saved your back from whatever mistakes you made or from going too heavy.
actually we noticed after the injury that the bar was off center... gym owners take note...
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actually we noticed after the injury that the bar was off center... gym owners take note...
Something you should've noticed beforehandm, and made adjustments to. ;)
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I got injured in the squat after neglecting the deadlift for about a month due to laziness and justifying it through labelling as as a "dangerous" exercise... is there a connection there?
Doubtful, you probably just got sloppy.
LOL brutal editing!!!! ;D
Epic inability to accept your ownage. ;D
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Doubtful, you probably just got sloppy.
That's only one possibility. Shit happens sometimes when going heavy, even with perfect form. The weight itself and the stresses imposed on the body can easily create a problem.
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That's only one possibility. Shit happens sometimes when going heavy, even with perfect form. It's the weight itself and the stresses imposed on the body that can easily create a problem.
His post doesn't say he was going heavy, could've been a warm up set, or this.........
actually we noticed after the injury that the bar was off center... gym owners take note...
Why would a gym owner take note?
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Why would a gym owner take note?
make sure the bars are safe...
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make sure the bars are safe...
Maybe you should explain what you mean by "off center"....I would assume it's your responsibility to make sure you get under the bar centered.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
You might enjoy powerlifting techniques from the Westside...
http://www.westside-barbell.com/
Educate yourself my man.
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Dling normally wouldn't affect my back because I loose the grip before it's going to effect my back. I just cant hold in to the bar .150kg*8reps is my max...Forearms too week i think...
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thanks dyslexic,you are the best
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People people people, take care of your midsection! Train your abs, obliques and lower back with rage. Best exercises are weighted planks, side bends or static holds holding the weight on your side, and hyperextensions. No belt is going to save you!
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1 Klaus fan is right..guys forget this days to train abs.
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i deadlift about every week but i never go real heavy. Most of the time 315 is as heavy as i go and focus on my back. I think it's helping my muscles grow and i never feel any strain or anything.
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i deadlift about every week but i never go real heavy. Most of the time 315 is as heavy as i go and focus on my back. I think it's helping my muscles grow and i never feel any strain or anything.
pussy...
too many people put too much emphasis on teh lower back and as a result end up INJURING it due to over training. If you do alot of heavier, beltless lifts, your core, especially your lower back, gets plenty of attention!
other than squatting and deadlifting, my lower back gets NOTHING extra and feels better than ever! Am I as strong as I have ever been? no but I have less over all minor problems after leaving out direct lowerback work or monitoring my exercise choices to make sure it doesn't get too much action.
for most people.. if they just trained like an athlete instead of a bodybuilder..they'd produce a more functional and workable physique without becoming just "gym strong" and being more prone to injuries.
functional training..and SMART training are key elements in designing the proper program.
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Schwarzenegger never DLed heavy past the young and stupid age, which is what most BBs do then learn better through exprience. I doubt anyone can find a pic of him actually lifting anything heavy on DLs in the 70s or beyond, just as with most BBs excepting a few who rarely got injured, like Columbu and Coleman.
Risk of Injuries
Some injuries that may occur while deadlifting is lumbar hernias, slipped discs (lumbar), sprains, and muscle tears including the biceps while using an supinated/pronated grip. The vast majority of injuries happen due to poor technique which puts the body in a compromised position to efficiently lift the weight; so the lifter will forgo form and tries to muscle the weight up. Even with perfect technique one could still sustain injuries due to muscle imbalances and inflexible muscles. The most common injury that is not associated with improper technique is bicep tears in the hand that is supinated with the alternated grip.
;) this is truth.
Also consider the jamming of the facet joints with extremely high compressive forces during the lockout.
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You absolutely don't have to deadlift. You can do other exercises. But the deadlift still remains as a very good indicator of progress.
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Ive gotten the best results from deadlifting...
thicker legs, back, arms, and even shoulders (traps) but thats me...
not to speak out against pumpster but everyone is different and what books say arent the best so in other words figure out what works for you
agree
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i was deadlifting / squatting / barbell rowing / every week with no trouble.
i unjuried myself in stupid dumbell press for chest, by lifting the dumbell when i was sitting on the bench.
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i was deadlifting / squatting / barbell rowing / every week with no trouble.
i unjuried myself in stupid dumbell press for chest, by lifting the dumbell when i was sitting on the bench.
im not sure if i understand, but that's what i do every time
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im not sure if i understand, but that's what i do every time
When you work your way up to the big boy dumbells, it's alot of weight to be picking up one db at a time while sitting on the bench, better to stand up and dl them both to your thighs and sit down with them then lay back and get them in position for pressing.
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When you work your way up to the big boy dumbells, it's alot of weight to be picking up one db at a time while sitting on the bench, better to stand up and dl them both to your thighs and sit down with them then lay back and get them in position for pressing.
heaviest i've done it with is the 100s. Some day i'll get strong. I can't stand to sit backwords with dumbbells. The fear of missing the seat gets to me.
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heaviest i've done it with is the 100s. Some day i'll get strong. I can't stand to sit backwords with dumbbells. The fear of missing the seat gets to me.
Straddle the bench/seat and look down just before you lean back.........geezus, do you want me to come over and lift it for you too? ::)
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Has anyone ever attempted to DL on the Smith Machine? I've tried this recently because I felt myself rounding my back way too much with the straight bar...I find that the Smith allows me to control the weight easier which allows me to perform better reps...
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People should build the base in the deadlifts for a couple of years atleast. Fuck the maxes or sets done to failure. Just volume, volume, volume. Strengthen the back and get the form down.
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Has anyone ever attempted to DL on the Smith Machine? I've tried this recently because I felt myself rounding my back way too much with the straight bar...I find that the Smith allows me to control the weight easier which allows me to perform better reps...
i've used it from time to time for partial deads... but i wouldn't use the smith for full deads
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Has anyone ever attempted to DL on the Smith Machine? I've tried this recently because I felt myself rounding my back way too much with the straight bar...I find that the Smith allows me to control the weight easier which allows me to perform better reps...
I never liked how it put you in a fixed range of motion. When doing Deadlifts I always felt better moving free weights along my own bio-mechanical line of motion. Squats are a different story for me as I can adjust my feet and stance forward or back to hit different parts of my quads, glutes and hams without worrying about balancing the bar.
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did deadlift again....back pain is here again..omfg
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when when i am off aas..i can do dead lift and all ok..
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when i deadlift it's only partial inside a rack
trap bar and dumbells are also a good alternative
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when when i am off aas..i can do dead lift and all ok..
i swear ive heard about other people having the same experience... have you tried asking the juice monkeys on the aas board?
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you can get hurt walking from the gym parking lot into the insanity that is some corporate facilities... so going at training with that kind of mindset will only hold you back.
deadlifting (or some version there-of) ...is well worth the risk for the strength, power, and size gains it gives you. The deadlift is THE original total body exercise...proper form and technique is paramont in this lift just as much as it is in any other. Don't do it because someone you know doens't like them..
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I maxed in the deadlift and made a personal record. :D But as usual, my back was really stiff for a few days, I guess it's mostly the muscles not being used to the stress. Does anyone else have this?
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dead list also up your testosterone level..its good
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is this only if you are pro BB?
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anybody try it?
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IMO Deadlifts are definitely the best exercise for building a thick back. I do 4 sets of 4-6reps with over 400lbs once per week and I never have any problems, anymore. I've learnt that to avoid injury it is crucial to create and maintain a "block" throughout the entire set, by this I mean take a deep breath, tighten your core and never round your back during the movement. You can take another breath when you're in the standing position but I don't recommend it if possible because this compromises the "block" that you're trying to maintain. Also remember that if you find that you start rounding your back at all then you're going too heavy!
If you're methodical with the execution of your deadlifts it can be your best friend when it comes to bodybuilding but it can also be the opposite if your sloppy.