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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on June 25, 2009, 06:28:48 AM
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http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20090625043708.aspx
Give a breakdown of the actual show based on who got to say what....
Call this a teachable moment, but even with ABC’s best-laid plans to kickstart the debate about health care reform and not allow the “Prescription for America” special to become an “infomercial,” as many have complained – the president spent more than twice as much time as his questioners vaguely answering or not answering the questions asked of him. But the network consistently presented the event as part of the need to fix a "broken system." When asked, every one of the 164 hand-picked audience members said they felt that health care needed to be changed.
President Barack Obama appeared on the ABC network in a town hall format broadcasted from the White House on two separate programs on June 24 – an hour-long primetime special during the 10 p.m. Eastern Time hour and later on the “Nightline” program that aired during the 11:30 p.m. Eastern Time hour.
ABC’s “Good Morning America” co-host Diane Sawyer billed the event as “a serious conversation” about the issue and she moderated the discussion along with her former “GMA” partner, now “World News” anchor Charles Gibson. ABC medical editor Dr. Timothy Johnson, a long-time network advocate for universal health care plans going back to Hillarycare, also participated in the event.
While Obama had to field some difficult questions -- from the audience and ABC -- he faced no Republican critics of his proposals. The network also allowed him to dominate the program with long-winded and vague answers. Out of the 75 minutes the network dedicated over the two programs (commercials excluded), the president managed to take 60 percent of that time: 45 minutes to give 19 vague responses – not exactly the “dialogue” advertised by ABC:
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/story?id=7919991&page=1
How do u screw up ur own propaganda piece?
President Obama struggled to explain today whether his health care reform proposals would force normal Americans to make sacrifices that wealthier, more powerful people -- like the president himself -- wouldn't face.
A special edition of "Nightline" from inside the White House.The probing questions came from two skeptical neurologists during ABC News' special on health care reform, "Questions for the President: Prescription for America," anchored from the White House by Diane Sawyer and Charles Gibson.
Dr. Orrin Devinsky, a neurologist and researcher at the New York University Langone Medical Center, said that elites often propose health care solutions that limit options for the general public, secure in the knowledge that if they or their loves ones get sick, they will be able to afford the best care available, even if it's not provided by insurance.
Devinsky asked the president pointedly if he would be willing to promise that he wouldn't seek such extraordinary help for his wife or daughters if they became sick and the public plan he's proposing limited the tests or treatment they can get.
The president refused to make such a pledge, though he allowed that if "it's my family member, if it's my wife, if it's my children, if it's my grandmother, I always want them to get the very best care.
"There's a whole bunch of care that's being provided that every study, that every bit of evidence that we have indicates may not be making us healthier," he said.
Gibson interjected that often patients don't know what will work until they get every test they can.
"Oftentimes we know what makes sense and what doesn't," the president responded, making a push for evidence-based medicine.
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The more I think about this mess, the worse it gets.
Obamacare is going to go down in flames.
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The more I think about this mess, the worse it gets.
Obamacare is going to go down in flames.
its true
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Obama is correct here in stating that everyone should have the very best healthcare free from limitation.
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Obama is correct here in stating that everyone should have the very best healthcare free from limitation.
Tell that to the doctors who have 250k to pay back in school loans and are going to have their reimbursements slashed.
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Tell that to the doctors who have 250k to pay back in school loans and are going to have their reimbursements slashed.
Universities should be free of charge also. This is a separate issue and needs addressing. Universities need to be tuition free.
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Universities should be free of charge also. This is a separate issue and needs addressing. Universities need to be tuition free.
You must have one of Obama's printing presses in your mothers basement to believe that nonsense.
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You must have one of Obama's printing presses in your mothers basement to believe that nonsense.
My mother is dead.
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My mother is dead.
Sorry about that, I thought someone joked a few times about you living in the basement.
My point was that there is simply no amount of money that will be able to cover all of theser things. Its simple math.
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Sorry about that, I thought someone joked a few times about you living in the basement.
My point was that there is simply no amount of money that will be able to cover all of theser things. Its simple math.
There is always money for bailouts and wars. Since we spend more per capita per person already on healthcare and college, a Universal system would certainly be a savings in both areas when compared to any other nation with these institutions.
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There is always money for bailouts and wars. Since we spend more per capita per person already on healthcare and college, a Universal system would certainly be a savings in both areas when compared to any other nation with these institutions.
I agree with you that we are spending too much on wars, etc.
However, we have a 9 trillion dollar debt and almost 1.5 trillion dollar deficit now as it is.
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The fact that ABC broadcasted this infomercial is unacceptible. We need a robust debate on something this large, it cannot be steamrolled through.
Many in the medical community oppose nationalized healthcare, in fact, I haven't spoke to one doctor yet who favors it. Many of us favor reform but not a full public plan.
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The fact that ABC broadcasted this infomercial is unacceptible. We need a robust debate on something this large, it cannot be steamrolled through.
Many in the medical community oppose nationalized healthcare, in fact, I haven't spoke to one doctor yet who favors it. Many of us favor reform but not a full public plan.
The majority of physicians in the United States support a single payer system.
http://www.pnhp.org/
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Dude, you quoted a site that is entitled "Physicians for nationalized healthcare". Thats not representative of all physicians. I would be cautious of polls coming from medical organizations too. Many physicians don't belong to groups like the AMA. They are more of the political docs.
Again, many docs want reform but not nationalized healthcare.
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Dude, you quoted a site that is entitled "Physicians for nationalized healthcare". Thats not representative of all physicians. I would be cautious of polls coming from medical organizations too. Many physicians don't belong to groups like the AMA. They are more of the political docs.
Again, many docs want reform but not nationalized healthcare.
Why would anyone ever go into medicine under a system like Obama is proposing????
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Tell that to the doctors who have 250k to pay back in school loans and are going to have their reimbursements slashed.
Then maybe schools shouldnt cost so much...like that dude you showed me
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The only way I can see it is if they alleviate medical school and residency loans. Its so difficult coming out of school with $100,000-200,000 of loans. Then it takes more loans to start a practice. Meanwhile, you are 30 years old before you start making any real money, when most of your peers have been in the workforce for 8 yrs already.
I think nationalized healthcare will impose a lot more regulations, mandates, extra pre-certifications, clearances, paperwork...all the shit that we hate already. I have worked with medicare, medicaid and workers comp...all are more difficult to work with than private insurance.
I also think they must focus on primary care medicine (family practice, internal medicine, pediatrics). These are the fields that the physicians get paid the least and there is the most dissatisfaction with current systems. I also believe that something should be done to decrease deductibles and co-pays for primary care, as that is a hurdle for preventative medicine.
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Then maybe schools shouldnt cost so much...like that dude you showed me
Oh I agree, but that is not going to happen. The cost will stay the same and the system we have will be awful for docs. What is going to happen?????
We are going to get a flood of docs from india and other countries who dont have the school loans to deal with.
Its insane. .
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Dude, you quoted a site that is entitled "Physicians for nationalized healthcare". Thats not representative of all physicians. I would be cautious of polls coming from medical organizations too. Many physicians don't belong to groups like the AMA. They are more of the political docs.
Again, many docs want reform but not nationalized healthcare.
I know I did. You claimed that you weren`t aware of any physicians supporting Universal Healthcare.
If you look a little further, you will see the polls from independent pollsters on the site where the question is asked amongst physicians, "do you support a single payer system. Yes or No", to which the majority in all polls answer "yes".
I can post them if you would like or do not have the time to search for them.
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Also, remember this. In speaking of nationalized healthcare, some are talking decreasing payments for visits/services. If this happens, it will make it harder for non-hospital owned primary care physicians to stay in practice...we will also have to see even more patients than now to stay in business.
The overhead for a medical practice, including licensures, staff, complying with mandates, malpractice, benefits, medical and office supplies is incredibly high. Anything that will increase this is a nightmare for clinics.
I fear that if the government steps in, they will work mainly with hospitals because of the necessity of big system mandates and regulation, which is not where primary care is the best for patients. We can't hire more staff to deal with extra bullshit that gets in the way of care.
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Universities should be free of charge also. This is a separate issue and needs addressing. Universities need to be tuition free.
No, they don't!!!
IF you smoke the ACT/SAT in high school, OR if you good in a certain popular sports (i.e. football), then you get offered a full-ride scholarship.
Otherwise, there's no such thing as free-of-charge college education. You could, of course, join the military and get the GI Bill.
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No, they don't!!!
IF you smoke the ACT/SAT in high school, OR if you good in a certain popular sports (i.e. football), then you get offered a full-ride scholarship.
Otherwise, there's no such thing as free-of-charge college education. You could, of course, join the military and get the GI Bill.
YEAH...They should be
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Adonis, I was saying no doc I know or speak to personally. I'm sure there are docs that do favor some kind of public system or single payor system, as you point out, but the majority of docs are very very concerned with a nationally run system. Big hospitals have already taken a lot of power away from physicians, many see this as another layer of bureacracy in medicine.
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Adonis, I was saying no doc I know or speak to personally. I'm sure there are docs that do favor some kind of public system or single payor system, as you point out, but the majority of docs are very very concerned with a nationally run system. Big hospitals have already taken a lot of power away from physicians, many see this as another layer of bureacracy in medicine.
59 percent of all United States Physicians support Single Payer Healthcare.
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Adonis, I was saying no doc I know or speak to personally. I'm sure there are docs that do favor some kind of public system or single payor system, as you point out, but the majority of docs are very very concerned with a nationally run system. Big hospitals have already taken a lot of power away from physicians, many see this as another layer of bureacracy in medicine.
Most doctors support national health insurance, new study shows
Reflecting a shift in thinking over the past five years among U.S. physicians, a new study shows a solid majority of doctors - 59 percent - now supports national health insurance.
Such plans typically involve a single, federally administered social insurance fund that that guarantees health care coverage for everyone, much like Medicare currently does for seniors. The plans typically eliminate or substantially reduce the role of private insurance companies in the health care financing system, but still allow patients to go the doctors of their choice.
A study published in today's Annals of Internal Medicine, a leading medical journal, reports that a survey conducted last year of 2,193 physicians across the United States showed 59 percent of them "support government legislation to establish national health insurance," while 32 percent oppose it and 9 percent are neutral.
The findings reflect a leap of 10 percentage points in physician support for national health insurance (NHI) since 2002, when a similar survey was conducted. At that time, 49 percent of all physician respondents said they supported NHI and 40 percent opposed it.
Support among doctors for NHI has increased across almost all medical specialties, said Dr. Ronald T. Ackermann, associate director of the Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research at Indiana University 's School of Medicine and co-author of the study.
"Across the board, more physicians feel that our fragmented and for-profit insurance system is obstructing good patient care, and a majority now support national insurance as the remedy," he said.
Support for NHI is particularly strong among psychiatrists (83 percent), pediatric sub-specialists (71 percent), emergency medicine physicians (69 percent), general pediatricians (65 percent), general internists (64 percent) and family physicians (60 percent). Fifty-five percent of general surgeons support NHI, roughly doubling their level of support since 2002.
Doctors have often expressed concern about lack of patient access to care due to rising costs and patients' insufficient levels of insurance. An estimated 47 million Americans currently lack health insurance coverage and another 50 million are believed to be underinsured. At the same time, health care costs in the United States are rising at the rate of about 7 percent a year, twice the rate of inflation.
The health care issue continues to rank high among voter concerns in the 2008 elections, placing third in a recent poll after the economy and Iraq .
The current study by the Indiana University researchers is the largest survey ever conducted among doctors on the issue of health care financing reform. It is based on a random sampling of names obtained from the American Medical Association's master list of physicians throughout the country.
In addition to measuring attitudes toward NHI, the survey also asked doctors about their views about "more incremental reform," often interpreted as state- or federal-based programs requiring or "mandating" that consumers buy health insurance from private insurance companies, legislative measures providing tax incentives to businesses to provide coverage for their employees, or similar steps.
Fewer physicians (55%) were in support of "incremental" reform. Moreover, virtually all those opposed to national health insurance also opposed incremental reform to improve access to care. In fact, only 14% of physicians overall oppose national health insurance but support more incremental reforms. Ironically, many medical organizations and most politicians have endorsed only incremental changes.
Dr. Aaron E. Carroll, Director of Indiana University's Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research and lead author of the study, commented: "Many claim to speak for physicians and reflect their views. We asked doctors directly and found that, contrary to conventional wisdom, most doctors support the government creating national health insurance."
Other signs indicate that attitudes among doctors are changing. The nation's largest medical specialty group, the 124,000-member American College of Physicians, endorsed a single-payer national health insurance program for the first time in December.
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Adonis, I was saying no doc I know or speak to personally. I'm sure there are docs that do favor some kind of public system or single payor system, as you point out, but the majority of docs are very very concerned with a nationally run system. Big hospitals have already taken a lot of power away from physicians, many see this as another layer of bureacracy in medicine.
I have been thinking about this for a while. I am conflicted though. Do I want to make a lot of money? Yes. Morals come in to play but is my quest for a lot of money hurting the less fortunate that i could help by going into peds or becoming a PCP or Internal? Truthfully...Yes. Simply because under the Proposed Healthcare Plan, Plastics would be elective still, thus not changing a thing, thats where the problem comes in. Do I want to go into plastics only to make a lot of money or do i want to help people by going into GP. I really havent been this conflicted about anything this complex in my life. Mixing thoughts about my future with my wants pertaining money but as well as the overall healthcare for U.S. citizens and the morals, man...a lot if very different factors come into play. Thanks for reading my shit. Been on my mind for a while.
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I have been thinking about this for a while. I am conflicted though. Do I want to make a lot of money? Yes. Morals come in to play but is my quest for a lot of money hurting the less fortunate that i could help by going into peds or becoming a PCP or Internal? Truthfully...Yes. Simply because under the Proposed Healthcare Plan, Plastics would be elective still, thus not changing a thing, thats where the problem comes in. Do I want to go into plastics only to make a lot of money or do i want to help people by going into GP. I really havent been this conflicted about anything this complex in my life. Mixing thoughts about my future with my wants pertaining money but as well as the overall healthcare for U.S. citizens and the morals, man...a lot if very different factors come into play. Thanks for reading my shit. Been on my mind for a while.
Healthcare and Profit should never cross paths.
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I have been thinking about this for a while. I am conflicted though. Do I want to make a lot of money? Yes. Morals come in to play but is my quest for a lot of money hurting the less fortunate that i could help by going into peds or becoming a PCP or Internal? Truthfully...Yes. Simply because under the Proposed Healthcare Plan, Plastics would be elective still, thus not changing a thing, thats where the problem comes in. Do I want to go into plastics only to make a lot of money or do i want to help people by going into GP. I really havent been this conflicted about anything this complex in my life. Mixing thoughts about my future with my wants pertaining money but as well as the overall healthcare for U.S. citizens and the morals, man...a lot if very different factors come into play. Thanks for reading my shit. Been on my mind for a while.
Mal - dont let some scumbag socialistic slobs tell you that you are not entitled to make a great living.
Between the loss of income for 8 years not working compared to your peers, the school loans on top of that, and then the tons of hours you have to work as a resident, YOU HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO BEFRE YOU WILL EVEN CATCH UP!
A doctor should make a great living and not be told that he is immoral unless he is willing to be a civil servant working for a regular wage.
Screw that, screw Obama and his gang of socialists blaming doctors' salaries for the costs of medicine.
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Healthcare and Profit should never cross paths.
TA - you really are a dreamer in the worst sense.
Why then should a person incur 250k of school debt to go to medical school????
Why would a doctor ever open a new practice on his own?
Why would a medical tech company ever develope new machines or testing devices?
Why would a company ever come out with innovate new tech???
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TA - you really are a dreamer in the worst sense.
Why then should a person incur 250k of school debt to go to medical school????
Why would a doctor ever open a new practice on his own?
Why would a medical tech company ever develope new machines or testing devices?
Why would a company ever come out with innovate new tech???
America has a failed health system. By far the worst out of all 1st world, Industrialized countries. The facts and evidenced cannot be subverted.
The World Health Organization (WHO), ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, , 37th in overall performance behind Morocco, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study.
A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries,
According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage"
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As I said in a previous post, I would be very cautious with a survey from a professional organization like the AMA. The AMA does not represent all physicians, most physicians I know do not belong to the AMA because its another extra annual fee. Many AMA physicians are hospital based or politically motivated in some way.
I would need to see a large survey from a sample of random physicians. The survey you quoted came from AMA member list. I speak mostly to private physicians, I can only say that the vast majority of private physicians that I know are for reform but opposed to a national system ran by the government. Good find though...its still interesting.
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As I said in a previous post, I would be very cautious with a survey from a professional organization like the AMA. The AMA does not represent all physicians, most physicians I know do not belong to the AMA because its another extra annual fee. Many AMA physicians are hospital based or politically motivated in some way.
I would need to see a large survey from a sample of random physicians. The survey you quoted came from AMA member list. I speak mostly to private physicians, I can only say that the vast majority of private physicians that I know are for reform but opposed to a national system ran by the government. Good find though...its still interesting.
The AMA are THE MOST Conservative and still support Single Payer by 59 percent.
Lets not forget that Obama is not offering single payer, but a hybrid system where you can keep whatever you have if you like it. I think that is bullshit. Single Payer is the way to go.
I used to work for United Health. I know how rotten the whole thing is.
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Why should a doctor not be entield to make a profit in his work when we dont put the same restrictions on lawyers, plumbers, accountants, etc????
Your cut and paste is stupid.
There is no problem whatsoever with doctors being motiviated by both profit and care in their practices.
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Why should a doctor not be entield to make a profit in his work when we dont put the same restrictions on lawyers, plumbers, accountants, etc????
Your cut and paste is stupid.
There is no problem whatsoever with doctors being motiviated by both profit and care in their practices.
Doctors in Britain do VERY well. Some live in million dollar houses. They have a merit based system, (unlike here) with their National Health Service. Here take a look:
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America has a failed health system. By far the worst out of all 1st world, Industrialized countries. The facts and evidenced cannot be subverted.
The World Health Organization (WHO), ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, , 37th in overall performance behind Morocco, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study.
A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries,
According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage"
At what point did it become the US governments job to provide health care? It's not their job, never has been and never should be. Yes our health care system is so bad that I can call the clinic on Sunday because my daughter has an ear infection, see the doctor within 45 minutes and pick up the antibiotics and ear drops in 2 hours and it cost me all of $10. Man that system is fucked up ::).
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Doctors in Britain do VERY well. Some live in million dollar houses. They have a merit based system, (unlike here) with their National Health Service. Here take a look:
Oh no you didn't just post Michael Moore bullshit! His propaganda would make Leni Riefenstahl proud.
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At what point did it become the US governments job to provide health care? It's not their job, never has been and never should be. Yes our health care system is so bad that I can call the clinic on Sunday because my daughter has an ear infection, see the doctor within 45 minutes and pick up the antibiotics and ear drops in 2 hours and it cost me all of $10. Man that system is fucked up ::).
TA wants this country to be a socialist paradise where no one makes more than anyone else, doctors make the same as garbage men, lawyers the same as mailroom people, etc.
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In TAs Defense...that video is accurate, i know because my RA in undergrad is GP in the UK and he still makes quite a bit and lives very well...But to tell you the truth i want to be stinking freaking rich. Like Rich enough to buy a Ranch and a Vineyard...some wild shit like thay...Lambo rich...
And im like "am i wrong for that and using medicine as a vehicle?" to tell you the truth...yea i think its pretty bad, its like profit from pain? I dont know...whatever
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In TAs Defense...that video is accurate, i know because my RA in undergrad is GP in the UK and he still makes quite a bit and lives very well...But to tell you the truth i want to be stinking freaking rich. Like Rich enough to buy a Ranch and a Vineyard...some wild shit like thay...Lambo rich...
And im like "am i wrong for that and using medicine as a vehicle?" to tell you the truth...yea i think its pretty bad, its like profit from pain? I dont know...whatever
No you are not wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you help save lives, bring better health to people, come up with new innovative ways to treat disease, you should be rewarded!
Isnt that what we hear all the time from people who complain abour AROD's salary????
Mal - just think of the lost income and debt compounded that you have to pay over the last 8 years and for the years going forwad with school loans. Its enormous!
Just to break even you need to make a lot of $$$$, just to catch up!
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TA wants this country to be a socialist paradise where no one makes more than anyone else, doctors make the same as garbage men, lawyers the same as mailroom people, etc.
No.
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In TAs Defense...that video is accurate, i know because my RA in undergrad is GP in the UK and he still makes quite a bit and lives very well...But to tell you the truth i want to be stinking freaking rich. Like Rich enough to buy a Ranch and a Vineyard...some wild shit like thay...Lambo rich...
And im like "am i wrong for that and using medicine as a vehicle?" to tell you the truth...yea i think its pretty bad, its like profit from pain? I dont know...whatever
You won`t be near that rich being a doctor.
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I always wonder about those rankings too. I think we are lower on the rankings for a couple reasons. 1. The US diet and lifesytle sucks. 2. Our medical system does not focus on preventative medicine enough. 3. High deductibles and co-pays scare away primary care patients (this is what needs to be addressed).
4. We spend a lot of $ on end of life care whereas some other countries help their elderly die peacefully.
I also don't think those rankings pick up on the fact that we address issues quicker than most medical systems. When it comes to musculoskeletal care, I bet we do better.
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You won`t be near that rich being a doctor.
Um....you dont know some of numbers that Plastics are making right now. Southwest, Northeast and South South east, They are cleaning up.
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Um....you dont know some of numbers that Plastics are making right now. Southwest, Northeast and South South east, They are cleaning up.
Far from the norm.
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Far from the norm.
Like almost anything else, the best rise to the top.
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Like almost anything else, the best rise to the top.
Sorry, but this is not true at all. The horror stories of Hollywood should be enough to realize that the wealthiest and most prolific plastic surgeons are certainly not the best.
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Sorry, but this is not true at all. The horror stories of Hollywood should be enough to realize that the wealthiest and most prolific plastic surgeons are certainly not the best.
Of course there are isolated cases, but by and large, the best in any porfession rise to the top.
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In medicine, not necessarily 33386. I never thought about being anything except a GP (besides an attraction to ortho)and my grades and class rankings were very good. I was top 15% in my med school class and valedictorian of my undergraduate college. I always envisioned a GP as the prototype doctor. In hindsight, maybe I should have gone into a subspecialty...but I feel I am making a difference more as a GP. The average salary for a GP is $120,000-$150,000. It should be more IMO. There should be less wage gaps between GPs and specialists.
Mal, after you get through two years of on-call at the end of medical school and 3-5 years of residency with call, you may feel better about making more $. Dude, we spend years in school and years in training giving up so many nights and weekends and give so much free and volunteer care.
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In medicine, not necessarily 33386. I never thought about being anything except a GP (besides an attraction to ortho)and my grades and class rankings were very good. I was top 15% in my med school class and valedictorian of my undergraduate college. I always envisioned a GP as the prototype doctor. In hindsight, maybe I should have gone into a subspecialty...but I feel I am making a difference more as a GP. The average salary for a GP is $120,000-$150,000. It should be more IMO. There should be less wage gaps between GPs and specialists.
Mal, after you get through two years of on-call at the end of medical school and 3-5 years of residency with call, you may feel better about making more $. Dude, we spend years in school and years in training giving up so many nights and weekends and give so much free and volunteer care.
Ok i appreciate that. I got caught up in the Change talk..
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Ok i appreciate that. I got caught up in the Change talk..
Mal - do yourself a favor - dont feel guilty about getting rewarded well for your work. You bust your ass for a reason and should not feel guilty about being rewarded for it.
Trust me, I know very well myself.
Its the lazy bums and risk averse who dont want to put in the time or $$$$ in loans and deferred income who want to drag you down because they are too cheap to pay for anything.
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Mal - do yourself a favor - dont feel guilty about getting rewarded well for your work. You bust your ass for a reason and should not feel guilty about being rewarded for it.
Trust me, I know very well myself.
Its the lazy bums and risk averse who dont want to put in the time or $$$$ in loans and deferred income who want to drag you down because they are too cheap to pay for anything.
I thought you were firmly against Loans for college?
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I thought you were firmly against Loans for college?
Its an evil we have to live with because the govt is grossly involved in giving out too many loans and grants as it is.
No one could ever afford med school without massive loans. Its a crime: created, promoted, advanced, and enhanced by govt involvement.
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Its an evil we have to live with because the govt is grossly involved in giving out too many loans and grants as it is.
No one could ever afford med school without massive loans. Its a crime: created, promoted, advanced, and enhanced by govt involvement.
Private loans are even worse.
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Change may be ok mal...but you got to get paid too bro!
I love being a private family practice doc (I can even post on this board between patients!..I guess its kind of a release) but its hard to make money. Right now I work 3 days a week at my practice and 2-3 days/week at a large employee health clinic. I'll probably make $35,000 at my practice this yr. Luckily, I make double that at the other clinic. Still, approx $110,000/yr isn't very good for all I've been through. At least I finally paid off my loans (after 8 yrs)...I don't spend that much $.
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Change may be ok mal...but you got to get paid too bro!
I love being a private family practice doc (I can even post on this board between patients!..I guess its kind of a release) but its hard to make money. Right now I work 3 days a week at my practice and 2-3 days/week at a large employee health clinic. I'll probably make $35,000 at my practice this yr. Luckily, I make double that at the other clinic. Still, approx $110,000/yr isn't very good for all I've been through. At least I finally paid off my loans (after 8 yrs)...I don't spend that much $.
No offense...Im sure you are a great guy..like seriously you are nothin but cool on here and i really look up to you...But with all due respect $110,000... ??? That hurts bro. And thats not what i expected. But i guess i am single with no children...that would work. But what if i get in to the elective stuff...i get paid a shit load more...
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No offense...Im sure you are a great guy..like seriously you are nothin but cool on here and i really look up to you...But with all due respect $110,000... ??? That hurts bro. And thats not what i expected. But i guess i am single with no children...that would work. But what if i get in to the elective stuff...i get paid a shit load more...
Ha ha.
Mal - when I cam out of law school they said the average grad made 80k - 100k. That was garbage. I was in top of the class, etc and was unemployed for 9 months. It took me about 5 years to even get to that. Now I do ok, but it took a long time.