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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Straw Man on June 28, 2009, 10:16:24 AM
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I don't know much at all about Islam but with all the unrest in Iran there have been a lot of stories on the news and I recently learned that a certain sect of Shia Muslims are waiting for a Messiah (twelth Imam) who will return with Christ and "will reestablish the rightful governance of Islam and replete the earth with justice and peace"
Can any fundie Muslims explain this in more detail? Do I have this part of the story correct?
Do any fundie Christians here believe this too?
If Christ and the Twelth Imam come back together who will be in charge. Will the whole planet now be Muslim or Christian or will they just co-exist together in perfect harmony?
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must we be muslim or christian fundies to answer this?
Most sunni muslims dont believe that shiias are muslims since in Islam Mohammed is supposed to be the last prophet (the koran revealed to him). Hense Sunnis like christians dont believe in a 12th imam...thats considered blasphemy
All sunnis like christians believe in the second coming of christ to help humanity...
although Muslim sunnis believe christ will return and everyone will become muslim...cause christ himself is supposed to believe in the "latest most recent word of god"...that being the koran
hopefully that answers your question
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must we be muslim or christian fundies to answer this?
Most sunni muslims dont believe that shiias are muslims since in Islam Mohammed is supposed to be the last prophet (the koran revealed to him). Hense Sunnis like christians dont believe in a 12th imam...thats considered blasphemy
All sunnis like christians believe in the second coming of christ to help humanity...
although Muslim sunnis believe christ will return and everyone will become muslim...cause christ himself is supposed to believe in the "latest most recent word of god"...that being the koran
hopefully that answers your question
THANKS - I'm still trying to sort out the difference btw. Shia's and Sunnis and even the different sects of Shia's.
I'm very curious if any Christians were aware of any of this and what they think about it.
Cleary, the best case scenario is that one of the two major groups (Christians and Muslims) is in for a big suprise if Christ actually shows up
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THANKS - I'm still trying to sort out the difference btw. Shia's and Sunnis and even the different sects of Shia's.
99% of the muslims on this planet r sunnis..i grew up in a sunni family..am athiest though
some differences i know about
1) shiaas r the ones that march around in some holy months cutting themselves etc
which of course is barbaric and stupid me thinks
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TO8OGUZdN8U/R5KqMg432gI/AAAAAAAABeo/r_MAqPPfRek/s400/capt.ca45d179ae6d4a74beb6b5a0ced6e2fa.pakistan_muharram_ekw101.jpg)
2) they also have conditional marriages...you can marry someone for a day :-\
I'm very curious if any Christians were aware of any of this and what they think about it.
Most christians here in the US have a very negative view of Islam...and thats the media...its why North Korea and Iran hate us...its THEIR media...selective story telling..
for example..this video below is from british teli..and its former (now dead) prime minister of pakistan saying something important...never made 1 friggin single telivision news station in the USA...why?
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99% of the muslims on this planet r sunnis..i grew up in a sunni family..am athiest though
some differences i know about
1) shiaas r the ones that march around in some holy months cutting themselves etc
which of course is barbaric and stupid me thinks
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TO8OGUZdN8U/R5KqMg432gI/AAAAAAAABeo/r_MAqPPfRek/s400/capt.ca45d179ae6d4a74beb6b5a0ced6e2fa.pakistan_muharram_ekw101.jpg)
2) they also have conditional marriages...you can marry someone for a day :-\Most christians here in the US have a very negative view of Islam...and thats the media...its why North Korea and Iran hate us...its THEIR media...selective story telling..
for example..this video below is from british teli..and its former (now dead) prime minister of pakistan saying something important...never made 1 friggin single telivision news station in the USA...why?
are you sure 99% are Sunnis?
Isn't Iran mostly Shia and isn't the majority of the population in Iraq also Shia?
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I don't know much of anything about the 12th Imam other than the Iranian leader seems to be looking forward to his return or appearance or whatever.
If Islam says that that guy and Christ will come back and "rule" that is interesting because the Christian bible indicates that Christ will return physically, but this will be after the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet run things for the tribulation period.
They will be apparently be able to control the masses w/the "mark of the beast" requirement needed to buy and sell anything. This type of technology is here already.
Here this should help re: biblical prophecy stuff (gotquestions.org):
Question: "What is going to happen according to end times prophecy?"
Answer: The Bible has a lot to say about the end times. Nearly every book of the Bible contains prophecy regarding the end times. Taking all of these prophecies and organizing them can be difficult. Following is a very brief summary of what the Bible declares will happen in the end times.
Christ will remove all born-again believers from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). At the judgment seat of Christ, these believers will be rewarded for good works and faithful service during their time on earth or will lose rewards, but not eternal life, for lack of service and obedience (1 Corinthians 3:11-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10).
The Antichrist (the beast) will come into power and will sign a covenant with Israel for seven years (Daniel 9:27). This seven-year period of time is known as the “tribulation.” During the tribulation, there will be terrible wars, famines, plagues, and natural disasters. God will be pouring out His wrath against sin, evil, and wickedness. The tribulation will include the appearance of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, and the seven seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.
About halfway through the seven years, the Antichrist will break the peace covenant with Israel and make war against it. The Antichrist will commit “the abomination of desolation” and set up an image of himself to be worshipped in the Jerusalem temple (Daniel 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10), which will have been rebuilt. The second half of the tribulation is known as “the great tribulation” (Revelation 7:14) and “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7).
At the end of the seven-year tribulation, the Antichrist will launch a final attack on Jerusalem, culminating in the battle of Armageddon. Jesus Christ will return, destroy the Antichrist and his armies, and cast them into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:11-21). Christ will then bind Satan in the Abyss for 1000 years and He will rule His earthly kingdom for this thousand-year period (Revelation 20:1-6).
At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released, defeated again, and then cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10) for eternity. Christ then judges all unbelievers (Revelation 20:10-15) at the great white throne judgment, casting them all into the lake of fire. Christ will then usher in a new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem—the eternal dwelling place of believers. There will be no more sin, sorrow, or death (Revelation 21–22).
Recommended Resource: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware.
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Thanks Stella.
I'm sure you know that I think it's ALL nonsense but my main interest is if the two major groups are even aware of each other stories.
Toxic says that Sunni's don't believe in the 12th Imam but do believe that Christ will return and everyone will become a Muslim.
What do you think about that?
I've also never been quite clear on what happens to all the the "saved" souls that are already in heaven. Do they just stay up there or do they come back to Earth for the party?
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I'm very curious if any Christians were aware of any of this and what they think about it.
Cleary, the best case scenario is that one of the two major groups (Christians and Muslims) is in for a big suprise if Christ actually shows up
Something that's interesting is that if the way the Rapture is usually interpreted is correct ...that all believers in Christ are removed from the earth at one time (later others will become believers but they may be killed for their faith or need to endure till Christ physically returns) then it would more easily pave the way for some belief system other than Christianity to be the one world religion.
I would like to know more about what Islam says about end-time stuff too and see how/if it parallels w/the Bible.
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Something that's interesting is that if the way the Rapture is usually interpreted is correct ...that all believers in Christ are removed from the earth at one time (later others will become believers but they may be killed for their faith or need to endure till Christ physically returns) then it would more easily pave the way for some belief system other than Christianity to be the one world religion.
I would like to know more about what Islam says about end-time stuff too and see how/if it parallels w/the Bible.
what's your opinion of the millions of Muslims who think Christ will return as a Muslim and everyone will become Muslim?
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are you sure 99% are Sunnis?
Isn't Iran mostly Shia and isn't the majority of the population in Iraq also Shia?
Iran is mostly shia..but thats it...the rest of the population r sunni
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Thanks Stella.
I'm sure you know that I think it's ALL nonsense but my main interest is if the two major groups are even aware of each other stories.
Toxic says that Sunni's don't believe in the 12th Imam but do believe that Christ will return and everyone will become a Muslim.
What do you think about that?
I've also never been quite clear on what happens to all the the "saved" souls that are already in heaven. Do they just stay up there or do they come back to Earth for the party?
Yes I know you think it's all nonsense :)
I think when Christ actually returns (and He won't be the Anti-Christ that some people think he will be) it is at the Battle of Armeggedon and after Satan (who will be indwelling the Anti-Christ) and his followers are "cast into the lake of fire," all people that go into the Millenium at that point will be believers.
As far as the saved souls already in heaven and the people that were "raptured," yes, the indication is they will return w/Christ at HIs 2nd coming but will have diff. "bodies" than the people that are still on earth that make it thru the tribulation and battle.
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Iran is mostly shia..but thats it...the rest of the population r sunni
I thought that 2/3 of the population in Iraq was Shia too. I thought I recall reading/hearing that Saddam was Sunni and so the Sunni's dominated the Shia's even though the Shia's were larger in number.
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what's your opinion of the millions of Muslims who think Christ will return as a Muslim and everyone will become Muslim?
Being a Christian I don't believe that. I think they are deceived just as I'm sure they think I am deceived.
Do they think Christ is a Muslim now or do they think He will become one?
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Yes I know you think it's all nonsense :)
I think when Christ actually returns (and He won't be the Anti-Christ that some people think he will be) it is at the Battle of Armeggedon and after Satan (who will be indwelling the Anti-Christ) and his followers are "cast into the lake of fire," all people that go into the Millenium at that point will be believers.
As far as the saved souls already in heaven and the people that were "raptured," yes, the indication is they will return w/Christ at HIs 2nd coming but will have diff. "bodies" than the people that are still on earth that make it thru the tribulation and battle.
ok - but what do you think about the millions of Muslims who apparently believe that Christ will come back and actually turn out to be a Muslim and I guess convert the planet to Islam.
What do you think about that?
Do you respect that belief (even though you clearly don't agree with it)?
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Something that's interesting is that if the way the Rapture is usually interpreted is correct ...that all believers in Christ are removed from the earth at one time (later others will become believers but they may be killed for their faith or need to endure till Christ physically returns) then it would more easily pave the way for some belief system other than Christianity to be the one world religion.I would like to know more about what Islam says about end-time stuff too and see how/if it parallels w/the Bible.
i heading off to burger king but real quick (i'll be back soon)
In Islam everyone (EVERYONE) had an 2 angels sitting on their shoulders...
one on the left..writing down all your sins...one on the right...writing down all good deeds..on the day of judgement NOONE is exempt..the good will get weighed against the bad..
however you dont necessarily have to be muslim to get into heaven...and being muslim dosen't gurantee you a place in heaven either...if u r an escimo living in the north pole but lived a good (non muslim) life you get into heaven...however a muslim that murders ...rapes...will goto hell...he is supposed to know better..ok dont have time to spell check..my girls having a burger king fit..
be back soon
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Being a Christian I don't believe that. I think they are deceived just as I'm sure they think I am deceived.
Do they think Christ is a Muslim now or do they think He will become one?
I don't know what Muslims believe about Christ i.e. whether he's a currently already a Muslim (seems weird that he would be a Christian as that would mean he would have to accept himself as his own saviour)
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ok - but what do you think about the millions of Muslims who apparently believe that Christ will come back and actually turn out to be a Muslim and I guess convert the planet to Islam.
What do you think about that?
Do you respect that belief (even though you clearly don't agree with it)?
I guess I'm not sure what you are saying about respecting the belief. I respect the people and their right to believe it ...but I'm not sure the word respect can apply to the belief itself... sorry if I'm not clear :-\
According to this definition......
re·spect (r-spkt)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
....since I don't believe that Christ will become a Muslim I would have to say no to respecting the belief. That doesn't mean I have no respect for those that believe it though.
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i heading off to burger king but real quick (i'll be back soon)
In Islam everyone (EVERYONE) had an 2 angels sitting on their shoulders...
one on the left..writing down all your sins...one on the right...writing down all good deeds..on the day of judgement NOONE is exempt..the good will get weighed against the bad..
however you dont necessarily have to be muslim to get into heaven...and being muslim dosen't gurantee you a place in heaven either...if u r an escimo living in the north pole but lived a good (non muslim) life you get into heaven...however a muslim that murders ...rapes...will goto hell...he is supposed to know better..ok dont have time to spell check..my girls having a burger king fit..
be back soon
Toxy thanks for that info.....and please pick me up a chocolate shake and a Spicy Baconator
I don't know what Muslims believe about Christ i.e. whether he's a currently already a Muslim (seems weird that he would be a Christian as that would mean he would have to accept himself as his own saviour)
Jesus doesn't need a Savior ;D
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I guess I'm not sure what you are saying about respecting the belief. I respect the people and their right to believe it ...but I'm not sure the word respect can apply to the belief itself... sorry if I'm not clear :-\
According to this definition......
re·spect (r-spkt)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
....since I don't believe that Christ will become a Muslim I would have to say no to respecting the belief. That doesn't mean I have no respect for those that believe it though.
ok - let's not get mired down in semantics.
If I understand you correctly you don't respect the belief that Christ will come back as a Muslim.
According to Toxic there are tens of millions of people who do believe this.
In your opinion, why do you think they hold this belief? Do you think they are being deceived? If so by whom?
Are they just merely mininformed and haven't been taught the "good news"?
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According to Toxic there are tens of millions of people who do believe this.
In your opinion, why do you think they hold this belief?
I can't say specifically. Could have been what they were taught and they assume it's true. Could be they looked into it carefully and it makes sense to them and they accept it as true. Could be they like certain aspects of it and accept it as true. Could be they've just always assumed it was true etc etc.
Do you think they are being deceived? If so by whom?
I think that is possible yes. People can deceive themselves, people can deceive other people and I also believe that Satan deceives.
Are they just merely mininformed and haven't been taught the "good news"?
I don't know...could be. But also, I've seen a lot of people that have heard the "good news" that reject it.
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Hey Straw Man, if you are interested I found a site w/a chart regarding Muslim, Jewish and Christian Prophecy Comparisons.
I only browsed it, I know nothing of the author and have no idea how accurate it may be:
http://contenderministries.org/prophecy/eschatology.php
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Hey Straw Man, if you are interested I found a site w/a chart regarding Muslim, Jewish and Christian Prophecy Comparisons.
I only browsed it, I know nothing of the author and have no idea how accurate it may be:
http://contenderministries.org/prophecy/eschatology.php
I'll check it out.
btw - your description could easily be applied to the bible too.
Wouldn't you agree?
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I'll check it out.
btw - your description could easily be applied to the bible too.
Wouldn't you agree?
ARe you talking about this that you bolded?
I know nothing of the author and have no idea how accurate it may be
If so, no, I believe we can know God in a personal way and learn about Him through the bible. Knowing how accurate the bible is, is a harder thing of course, but prophecy helps me to accept it as true.
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Which description? WHy people hold certain beliefs or what you bolded in your quote?
the description that I bolded in your previous statement.
that would perfectly apply to the bible as well (though off the topic of this thread - don't want to derail my own thread).
So you're aware that people can hold beliefs for no other reason except that they were taught it at a young age, assume it to be true, were indoctrinated in that belief by the culture they were raised or currently reside etc..
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the description that I bolded in your previous statement.
that would perfectly apply to the bible as well (though off the topic of this thread - don't want to derail my own thread).
Oh! I had just modified my post to refer to that ;D
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ARe you talking about this that you bolded?
I know nothing of the author and have no idea how accurate it may be
If so, no, I believe we can know God in a personal way and learn about Him through the bible. Knowing how accurate the bible is, is a harder thing of course, but prophecy helps me to accept it as true.
I'm not sure what you mean by this statement
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I don't know what Muslims believe about Christ i.e. whether he's a currently already a Muslim (seems weird that he would be a Christian as that would mean he would have to accept himself as his own saviour)
Muslims believe that Christ ws a prophet of god just like mohammed..
God sent down christ with the bible...
the reason mohammed is held in high regard is cause he ws the last prophet (with the koran)
if ya asked my dad why he dosen't believe in the bible..he'd say..that he does..just show him the original..cause it ws lost a long time ago and changed thru translations and man
the arabic koran apparently has not been changed
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I thought that 2/3 of the population in Iraq was Shia too. I thought I recall reading/hearing that Saddam was Sunni and so the Sunni's dominated the Shia's even though the Shia's were larger in number.
http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia_population.htm
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Toxy thanks for that info.....and please pick me up a chocolate shake and a Spicy Baconator
i had their new steakhouse burger....yummy!
Jesus doesn't need a Savior ;D
in islam..that is also correct...all prophets get a free pass into heaven..
however the difference is that he is not considered god...no human apparently can be equated to god
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ok - let's not get mired down in semantics.
If I understand you correctly you don't respect the belief that Christ will come back as a Muslim.
According to Toxic there are tens of millions of people who do believe this.
In your opinion, why do you think they hold this belief? Do you think they are being deceived? If so by whom?
Are they just merely mininformed and haven't been taught the "good news"?
well Christ in Islam didn't consider himself to be a christian or muslim either...just simply..a messenger of god...
in islamic history (in my understanding) god sent down different books with different prophets thru time..christ ws one of em
the word muslim came after..in christs time there ws no Mecca (is that right?) or 5 prayers...that came later...apparently god wanted his people to pray like 100 or so times / day...and mohammed apparently talked him down to 5..no lie... :-\
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http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia_population.htm
this link shows Iran @ 93% Shia and Iraq @ 62%.
It does also show that Shia are less than 10% of the total Muslim population though I am a bit dubious of the stats that certain countries are 100% or high 90% Muslim. I'm sure there are a lot of people who live there that don't self identify as Muslim or even any religion (just a hunch).
Still, I guess your larger point is that most Muslims are Sunni and they don't have the same beliefs as Shia.
I'm still learning all this stuff. I didn't even know that Muslims believed that the historical figured of Jesus was going to return but as a Muslim or preach Islam.
In your opinion, do Sunni's believe that Jesus was always Muslim and that somehow Christians just got it wrong and mis-identified Jesus as a God when he was merely a Muslim prophet?
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I'm not sure what you mean by this statement
Stella believes biblical prophecy to be unerringly perfect and confirmed. That is what she means.
Even though there are many explanations for people's belief in such things, I still can't wrap my head around the fact that otherwise rational/normal human beings get involved in this. Consistency is not man's strong suit. :-\
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Muslims believe that Christ ws a prophet of god just like mohammed..
God sent down christ with the bible...
the reason mohammed is held in high regard is cause he ws the last prophet (with the koran)
if ya asked my dad why he dosen't believe in the bible..he'd say..that he does..just show him the original..cause it ws lost a long time ago and changed thru translations and man
the arabic koran apparently has not been changed
When you say God sent Jesus down with the Bible what does this mean exactly?
I assume if a historical figure that we refer to as Jesus actually existed that he wasn't born holding a book.
I wasn't aware that Muslims believe the bible was written or in any way authored by Jesus.
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Stella believes biblical prophecy to be unerringly perfect and confirmed. That is what she means.
Even though there are many explanations for people's belief in such things, I still can't wrap my head around the fact that otherwise rational/normal human beings get involved in this. Consistency is not man's strong suit. :-\
thanks but I'm more interested in what she thinks than what you believe she thinks (no offense)
I'm also intersted in why she holds her beliefs and/or how she came to believe what she believes
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Still, I guess your larger point is that most Muslims are Sunni and they don't have the same beliefs as Shia.
correct
In your opinion, do Sunni's believe that Jesus was always Muslim and that somehow Christians just got it wrong and mis-identified Jesus as a God when he was merely a Muslim prophet?
no there ws no such thing as muslim back then..but yes muslims do believe that jesus ws not God...he ws merely a messanger...ie a prophet of god
scientifically ill go with the muslims on this...same matter cannot occupy 2 spaces at the same time but then...we r talking religion...
http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08.htm
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Still, I guess your larger point is that most Muslims are Sunni and they don't have the same beliefs as Shia.
correct
In your opinion, do Sunni's believe that Jesus was always Muslim and that somehow Christians just got it wrong and mis-identified Jesus as a God when he was merely a Muslim prophet?
no there ws no such thing as muslim back then..but yes muslims do believe that jesus ws not God...he ws merely a messanger...ie a prophet of god
scientifically ill go with the muslims on this...same matter cannot occupy 2 spaces at the same time but then...we r talking religion...
http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08.htm
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When you say God sent Jesus down with the Bible what does this mean exactly?
well Jesus didn't show up with a book one day walking down a mountain..in Islam the Koran ws revealed to mohammed in a cave where he slept..in dreams etc...so there must be something similar for ALL muslim and christian prophets
I assume if a historical figure that we refer to as Jesus actually existed that he wasn't born holding a book.
yep...besides all prophets at least in Islam were given a supernatural gift..mohammed could communicate with animals the story goes..but every prophet had a gift to prove that he actually ws one..side note..why didn't god send female prophets? :-\
I wasn't aware that Muslims believe the bible was written or in any way authored by Jesus.
muslims believe in the jewish book torah also...but again they say the original ws lost..
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correct
no there ws no such thing as muslim back then..but yes muslims do believe that jesus ws not God...he ws merely a messanger...ie a prophet of god
scientifically ill go with the muslims on this...same matter cannot occupy 2 spaces at the same time but then...we r talking religion...
http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08.htm
great link - thanks
I'm not sure how it applies to our conversation. Are you saying God and man (and by extension Jesus) can't occupy the same space?
if so, you're using that as proof that Jesus is not God.
sorry in advance if I'm completely missing your point
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well Jesus didn't show up with a book one day walking down a mountain..in Islam the Koran ws revealed to mohammed in a cave where he slept..in dreams etc...so there must be something similar for ALL muslim and christian prophets yep...
ok but let's just start with this....... the bible is just a collection of stories that include stuff that pre-dates the time when Jesus was said to exist
let's also continue to the obvious point that Jesus wasn't around to edit, redact, translate and publish the many different versions of this book ..... or even one version
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great link - thanks
I'm not sure how it applies to our conversation. Are you saying God and man (and by extension Jesus) can't occupy the same space?
if so, you're using that as proof that Jesus is not God.
sorry in advance if I'm completely missing your point
point is..lets say god creaated the universe
then god created all the physical laws that govern it
if so..then god would not be callus enough to confuse humanity by himself disobeying those laws of physics
yeah the uncertanity principly says" 2 objects cannot occupy the same space and time" so an extention of it says " the same object cannot occupt 2 places in space at the same time"
sooo if jesus ws here on earth...he certainly couldn't be elsewhere as god at the same time...how could he be preaching gods word here on earth if he IS god...does not make sence to me...or he is preaching the word of god written by..himself?
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ok but let's just start with this....... the bible is just a collection of stories that include stuff that pre-dates the time when Jesus was said to exist
according to Islam ..its the direct word of god...revealed to christ
let's also continue to the obvious point that Jesus wasn't around to edit, redact, translate and publish the many different versions of this book ..... or even one version
well to counter point...neither ws mohammed and muslims claim that the original arabic book is EXACTLY the same down to the last comma..apparently it ws memorised by the closest "friends" of mohammed..
practice continues to this day...ya seen those kids in madarsas on the teli rocking back n forth..well they r memorizing the koran word for word..that person is then (in arabic) called a hafiz
i found this link..i'm gonna read it now
http://www.submission.org/quran/protect.html
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well watcha know...i stand corrected..
From these oldest copies more copies were made and distributed throughout the world. Although many famous Muslim scholars claim that all the copies of the Quran anywhere in the world are the same, they are only exposing their ignorance to the facts and mislead millions of Muslims to believe in their wrong teachings. The only motive for them is their misunderstanding of and inability to comprehend verse 15:9. We will see later different Qurans written differently. The most standardized editions of the Quran in the world today is the one printed in Cairo, Egypt in 1924 (approved in 1918) and after that the King Fahd edition in Saudi Arabia.
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point is..lets say god creaated the universe
then god created all the physical laws that govern it
if so..then god would not be callus enough to confuse humanity by himself disobeying those laws of physics
yeah the uncertanity principly says" 2 objects cannot occupy the same space and time" so an extention of it says " the same object cannot occupt 2 places in space at the same time"
sooo if jesus ws here on earth...he certainly couldn't be elsewhere as god at the same time...how could he be preaching gods word here on earth if he IS god...does not make sence to me...or he is preaching the word of god written by..himself?
so God and humans are distinct and separate objects?
I would argue that God pours reality into existence through itself and the idea that you are distinct and separate from god is an illusion or more aptly a mistake
Buddhist have the concept of Right View.
The entire problem of existence starts off as a mistake on the nature of our existence(Orginal Sin anyone?)
It may be our delusion that we are ever separate from god (or whatever you want to call it).
One of the lines in the Heart Sutra has been translated as follows:
"With nothing to attain a Bodhisattva depends on Prajna Paramita and the mind is no hindrance. Without any hindrance no fears exists. Far apart from every perverted view one dwells in nirvana.
I guess my point of all fo this is that if God exists I can easily make the argument that we can occupy the same space at the same time
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so God and humans are distinct and separate objects?
I would argue that God pours reality into existence through itself and the idea that you are distinct and separate from god is an illusion or more aptly a mistake
Buddhist have the concept of Right View.
The entire problem of existence starts off as a mistake on the nature of our existence(Orginal Sin anyone?)
It may be our delusion that we are ever separate from god (or whatever you want to call it).
One of the lines in the Heart Sutra has been translated as follows:
"With nothing to attain a Bodhisattva depends on Prajna Paramita and the mind is no hindrance. Without any hindrance no fears exists. Far apart from every perverted view one dwells in nirvana.
I guess my point of all fo this is that if God exists I can easily make the argument that we can occupy the same space at the same time
actrually i do give some credence to the old hindu texts
this is why
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
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the bhagavad gita works too.
where are all the christians (other than Stella - thanks Stella)?
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Been discussed before.
Can you believe a devout Muslim wrote these two books?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=240831.msg3382771#msg3382771
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About Jesus, Muslims believe:
That Jesus was virgin born
That Jesus did miracles
That Jesus is a prophet sent by God
That Jesus is the Messiah
That Jesus is alive today
That Jesus will return
Muslims venerate "The Virgin Mary" almost as much as Roman Catholics do.
Some Christians believe that in the end times, the Muslims and the Roman Catholic Church will unite to form a One World Religion under a One World Government, that a Muslim leader will be The Anti-Christ, and that a Pope will be The False Prophet that the book of Revelations talks about.
The book of Daniel speaks of a statue made up of different elements, each symbolizing every major world empire since the Babylonian empire. The only part of the statue representing an empire that has not yet arrived is the statue's feet which are made in part of iron and in part of of clay. Some Christians believe that the iron and the clay are the Muslims and the Roman Catholic Church.
Again, not all Christians believe this.
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Jesus is neither a Christian nor a Muslim.
"Christian" is the name given by 1st century pagans to those who believe in and follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not a follower of Jesus Christ. Therefore Jesus Christ is not a Christian.
Jesus is not a Muslim. During his ministry in this world, Jesus was a Jew and the Son of God, same God who revealed Himself to the Jews.
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Jesus is neither a Christian nor a Muslim.
"Christian" is the name given by 1st century pagans to those who believe in and follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not a follower of Jesus Christ. Therefore Jesus Christ is not a Christian.
Jesus is not a Muslim. During his ministry in this world, Jesus was a Jew and the Son of God, same God who revealed Himself to the Jews.
Who is allegedly the Creator of the Universe, this selfsame deity neglected to manifest himself to indigenous people of the Americas or Australia. Very strange. I wonder if the Creator of the Universe really fits into something like that....
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Jesus is neither a Christian nor a Muslim.
"Christian" is the name given by 1st century pagans to those who believe in and follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not a follower of Jesus Christ. Therefore Jesus Christ is not a Christian.
Jesus is not a Muslim. During his ministry in this world, Jesus was a Jew and the Son of God, same God who revealed Himself to the Jews.
So you don't think Jesus will come back and covert the entire planet to Islam?
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So you don't think Jesus will come back and covert the entire planet to Islam?
No. Why would I think that?
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No. Why would I think that?
I didn't think you would but you listed a lot of superficial similaraties but the differences seem to be significant.
Muslims don't think Jesus was a God
Muslims think when he does come back he will convert the world to Islam
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I didn't think you would but you listed a lot of superficial similaraties but the differences seem to be significant.
Muslims don't think Jesus was a God
Muslims think when he does come back he will convert the world to Islam
Somebody once said "Every great lie is based on some truth."
The similarities don't mean much. There are similarities between Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, etc.
I once met a Palestinian man who had converted to Christianity in his adult life after having been a devout Muslim all his life. He said that in studying Islam, and then studying Biblical Christianity, he now believes that the Muslim Messiah(Not Jesus) is the same as the one the Bible refers to as "The Beast", The Anti-Christ.
As I mentioned before, some Christians believe that the anti-Christ will be a Muslim leader who will unite Islam and the Roman Catholic church to create a one world religion under a one world government. If these Christians are correct, then the Muslim belief that their "Christ" will convert, or try to convert, the whole world to Islam makes sense. They just don't know that their Messiah is really the anti-Christ whom Jesus Christ will defeat when He returns.
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Been discussed before.
Can you believe a devout Muslim wrote these two books?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=240831.msg3382771#msg3382771
this is common knowlodge with Christians out side of America and the UK..
now ya wanna believe the media skews the general population view to facilitate the govt agenda?
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Somebody once said "Every great lie is based on some truth."
The similarities don't mean much. There are similarities between Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, etc.
I once met a Palestinian man who had converted to Christianity in his adult life after having been a devout Muslim all his life. He said that in studying Islam, and then studying Biblical Christianity, he now believes that the Muslim Messiah(Not Jesus) is the same as the one the Bible refers to as "The Beast", The Anti-Christ.
As I mentioned before, some Christians believe that the anti-Christ will be a Muslim leader who will unite Islam and the Roman Catholic church to create a one world religion under a one world government. If these Christians are correct, then the Muslim belief that their "Christ" will convert, or try to convert, the whole world to Islam makes sense. They just don't know that their Messiah is really the anti-Christ whom Jesus Christ will defeat when He returns.
and as you know, many people think it's all nonsense and their point of view is no less valid than any other.
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and as you know, many people think it's all nonsense and their point of view is no less valid than any other.
So is your point of view!
You asked for an answer from Christians. You got one.
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So is your point of view!
You asked for an answer from Christians. You got one.
so you think my point of view is nonsense and I think your is nonsense
we've been here before haven't we?
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Stella believes biblical prophecy to be unerringly perfect and confirmed. That is what she means.
That is mostly correct although I also believe there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled.
Who is allegedly the Creator of the Universe, this selfsame deity neglected to manifest himself to indigenous people of the Americas or Australia.
But how can you know that? Because it's not written in the bible? I believe God is bigger than what is written about him in a book.
well Jesus didn't show up with a book one day walking down a mountain..in Islam the Koran ws revealed to mohammed in a cave where he slept..in dreams etc...so there must be something similar for ALL muslim and christian prophets yep...besides all prophets at least in Islam were given a supernatural gift..mohammed could communicate with animals the story goes..but every prophet had a gift to prove that he actually ws one..side note..
why didn't god send female prophets? :-\muslims believe in the jewish book torah also...but again they say the original ws lost..
I thought I read that Mohammed went into a cave and had visions and stuff and thought he was demon possessed when he came out. Then his wife told him his info was from God and he believed her. I just found the Quran we have here the other day...I will look for it and post what it says in the front about this.
Also, there are female prophets in the Bible.
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I thought I read that Mohammed went into a cave and had visions and stuff and thought he was demon possessed when he came out. Then his wife told him his info was from God and he believed her.
i think thats right...i think he ws scared till his wife told him it ws ok...
btw...dont buy korans...just go to a mosque and ask for one...they (according to islamic law) should hand you 1 for free
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i think thats right...i think he ws scared till his wife told him it ws ok...
btw...dont buy korans...just go to a mosque and ask for one...they (according to islamic law) should hand you 1 for free
Thanks Toxy, but I didn't buy it. Someone sent it to us.
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Thanks Toxy, but I didn't buy it. Someone sent it to us.
its raining korans! :D
...ws that like inappropriate?
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its raining korans! :D
...ws that like inappropriate?
I don't know because I don't get it!
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I don't know because I don't get it!
like...its "raining men"
ahh the moments gone :(
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like...its "raining men"
ahh the moments gone :(
OH! ;D