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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Ursus on July 08, 2009, 05:50:55 PM

Title: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Ursus on July 08, 2009, 05:50:55 PM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: ManBearPig... on July 08, 2009, 05:52:19 PM
i listened to some guy on dennis miller's show whose kid had depression.

from what his kid went through, it seems very real.

but there's a difference between being depressed because you're ugly, don't get laid, broke, etc. and having clinical depression (wanting to kill yourself because you fail at some simple tasks, etc.)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Ursus on July 08, 2009, 05:53:18 PM
Is that what clinical depression is?

Too mnay people i know say they are depressed - seem fine to me just dont work take a tablet walk about in pyjamas etc
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 05:54:02 PM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

Sure it exist, but almost every mental state that differs radically from what one is used to experiencing is usually difficult to wrap ones head around.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Montague on July 08, 2009, 05:58:04 PM
Causes of Depression:

Depression has no single cause; often, it results from a combination of things. You may have no idea why depression has struck you.
Whatever its cause, depression is not just a state of mind.
It is related to physical changes in the brain, and connected to an imbalance of a type of chemical that carries signals in your brain and nerves. These chemicals are called neurotransmitters.


Some of the more common factors involved in depression are:

 Family history. Genetics play an important part in depression. It can run in families for generations.

 Trauma and stress. Things like financial problems, the breakup of a relationship, or the death of a loved one can bring on depression. You can become depressed after changes in your life, like starting a new job, graduating from school, or getting married.

 Pessimistic personality. People who have low self-esteem and a negative outlook are at higher risk of becoming depressed. These traits may actually be caused by low-level depression (called dysthymia).

 Physical conditions. Serious medical conditions like heart disease, cancer, and HIV can contribute to depression, partly because of the physical weakness and stress they bring on. Depression can make medical conditions worse, since it weakens the immune system and can make pain harder to bear. In some cases, depression can be caused by medications used to treat medical conditions.

 Other psychological disorders. Anxiety disorders, eating disorders, schizophrenia, and (especially) substance abuse often appear along with depression.


http://www.depression.com/causes_of_depression.html (http://www.depression.com/causes_of_depression.html)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: ManBearPig... on July 08, 2009, 05:58:10 PM
Is that what clinical depression is?

Too mnay people i know say they are depressed - seem fine to me just dont work take a tablet walk about in pyjamas etc

well this guy was saying his son had a bad game in little league baseball and tried poisoning himself when he came home because he thought his dad was disappointed in him.

shit like that.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Ursus on July 08, 2009, 05:59:16 PM
Im talking to a girl atm who said she is depressed.

I asked you you physically work tomorrow.

She asaid yes.

I said would you like to?

Her reply, yes.

Then she said after a week or so she literally wouldntbe able to drag herself out of bed.

bemuses me
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Montague on July 08, 2009, 06:00:33 PM
Sure it exist, but almost every mental state that differs radically from what one is used to experiencing is usually difficult to wrap ones head around.

every mental state that differs radically from what one is used to experiencing = Debussey

 ;D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: benchmstr on July 08, 2009, 06:02:57 PM
i had bad depression for a while. i then started taking lexapro (non narcotic), and started drinking. i am fine now ;D

bench
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 06:03:27 PM
every mental state that differs radically from what one is used to experiencing = Debussey

 ;D

 >:( :'(

Having a retarded brain, being perpetually pumped full of drugs and having an abusive nurse does not help the brain pump out mental states normally seen in the middle of the bell curve :-X
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Montague on July 08, 2009, 06:10:24 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: wavelength on July 08, 2009, 06:58:23 PM
of course it exists, funny question
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:00:14 PM
of course it exists, funny question

Do you get depressed when somebody calls you a freakin' liar? ;D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: wavelength on July 08, 2009, 07:02:08 PM
Do you get depressed when somebody calls you a freakin' liar? ;D

nah fortunally I never had that affliction but I know people who do and it's not a state you want to be in
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:03:21 PM
nah fortunally I never had that affliction but I know people who do and it's not a state you want to be in

In all seriousness, depression is a serious thing that should not be taken lightly.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: webcake on July 08, 2009, 07:05:48 PM
It exists, but i'd say 50% of people taking anti depressants don't really need them. We live in a chemical world. Little bit of stress.......take a pill for it.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: lift 456 on July 08, 2009, 07:07:06 PM
cry us a river
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: wavelength on July 08, 2009, 07:07:51 PM
It exists, but i'd say 50% of people taking anti depressants don't really need them. We live in a chemical world. Little bit of stress.......take a pill for it.

If you have full blown depression, believe me, you will take every drug available to get out of it.
And you should, at least as a temporary measure to avoid the worst.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:12:09 PM
It exists, but i'd say 50% of people taking anti depressants don't really need them. We live in a chemical world. Little bit of stress.......take a pill for it.

Debussey thinks your far off base here. Perhaps not in the most pill-happy societies, but in many countries where the usage of prescription drugs = more restrictive (like in Norway).

The problem is that people who are depressed often can't just "think themselves out of it". Many needs the meds just to be able to function so that they can go into therapy, and even if a person JUST goes for therapy to get better the road to recovery is still often very long.

If therapy will help you heal your depression in 6-12 months, you've still been wasting that time being depressed. If somebody can get well while not feeling like shit due to meds, it = better. No reason spending your precious hours feeling bad if you can avoid it.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: webcake on July 08, 2009, 07:12:43 PM
If you have full blown depression, believe me, you will take every drug available to get out of it.
And you should, at least as a temporary measure to avoid the worst.

I agree with that.

But it's more about the 12 year old kids who are being diagnosed with depression/anti depressant drugs. The average age of a person with depression is getting younger and younger. I guess you sometimes wonder how/why a 12 year old can suffer from depression.....
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:14:52 PM
I agree with that.

But it's more about the 12 year old kids who are being diagnosed with depression/anti depressant drugs. The average age of a person with depression is getting younger and younger. I guess you sometimes wonder how/why a 12 year old can suffer from depression.....

Nah, many kids suffers from depression, and they are even less likely to "think themselves out of it". It's just that the problem of depression in children = not studied properly until the last few decades (if what Debussey has read about the subject is correct).

They should not be forced to be depressed while waiting to heal in therapy as long as the pills does not create serious side effects.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 08, 2009, 07:38:52 PM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

i dont know, does anxiety exist? panic attacks?

if you have ever experience Major depressive disorder you would realize that it permeates ones life. Life is joyless, grey, sleep is terrible, pain in intolerable, digestion is impaired etc etc...

it kills more people then most chronic conditions.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: G o a t b o y on July 08, 2009, 07:43:20 PM
Word of advice to anyone over 30 who develops "depression":  before you let them put you on an SSRI or other b/s, get your testosterone levels checked, and try test replacement first.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:44:09 PM
Word of advice to anyone over 30 who develops "depression":  before you let them put you on an SSRI or other b/s, get your testosterone levels checked, and try test replacement first.


Or they could just become a Xanor/Xanax addict! :D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: liberalismo on July 08, 2009, 07:47:57 PM
Cure:



(http://www.heroin.org.uk/papaver.jpg)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: G o a t b o y on July 08, 2009, 07:48:21 PM

Or they could just become a Xanor/Xanax addict! :D

Xanax is also superior to SSRI's.  Unfortunately, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac et al are the first things docs reach for, and in 80% of the cases, they're not the right answer.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:50:39 PM
Xanax is also superior to SSRI's.  Unfortunately, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac et al are the first things docs reach for, and in 80% of the cases, they're not the right answer.

What triggers your Depression George? Seeing this in your bedroom?

(http://www.padfield.com/clipart/BookCovers/creeds/images/Koran.jpg)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: G o a t b o y on July 08, 2009, 07:54:18 PM
What triggers your Depression George? Seeing this in your bedroom?


I'm not depressed.  I was dealing with stress and being pissed off all the time until I got on test cyp and occasional xanax.  Now I'm good to go.  First quack doc tried to put me on Lexapro... I lasted two weeks on that shit before I said "fuck this" and took myself off.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 07:56:27 PM

I'm not depressed.  I was dealing with stress and being pissed off all the time until I got on test cyp and occasional xanax.  Now I'm good to go.  First quack doc tried to put me on Lexapro... I lasted two weeks on that shit before I said "fuck this" and took myself off.

Sure you are not ::)

If anything, you're a freakin' drug addict :D

And you said something about not having taken test for a long time in another thread. How is life threating ya? :D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 08, 2009, 08:01:00 PM
Xanax is also superior to SSRI's.  Unfortunately, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac et al are the first things docs reach for, and in 80% of the cases, they're not the right answer.

no they are not. while xanax is unique among benzodiazepines with potential anti depressant affects, most benzodiazepines worsen depression. They are anxiolytics, not anti depressants, SSRIS are antidepressants and anxiolytics that take a while to work.Benzos are immediate, they also a terrible addicitive, with xanax being the worse with long term consequences.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 08, 2009, 08:02:22 PM
Cure:



(http://www.heroin.org.uk/papaver.jpg)

i have no idea what this is but St johns wort is superior to pharms for depression.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: liberalismo on July 08, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
i have no idea what this is but St johns wort is superior to pharms for depression.


That is OPIUM. It's a natural plant that has been used for thousands of years.


St. Johns wart has been proven useless.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: G o a t b o y on July 08, 2009, 08:06:50 PM
no they are not. while xanax is unique among benzodiazepines with potential anti depressant affects, most benzodiazepines worsen depression. They are anxiolytics, not anti depressants, SSRIS are antidepressants and anxiolytics that take a while to work.Benzos are immediate, they also a terrible addicitive, with xanax being the worse with long term consequences.


SSRI's only "work" on a percentage (less than half) of patients who try them, and no one, including the developers/manufacturers can demonstrate a mode of action or explain just exactly how they "work".  Sounds like hit or miss voodoo medicine to me.  :-\

Benzos are fine if used appropriately.  There is potential for addiction, but if you can use them responsibly and don't have addiction issues, it's no big deal.  If you find yourself popping them every day, it's time to stop.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 08:08:04 PM

SSRI's only "work" on a percentage (less than half) of patients who try them, and no one, including the developers/manufacturers can demonstrate a mode of action or explain just exactly how they "work".  Sounds like hit or miss voodoo medicine to me.  :-\

Benzos are fine if used appropriately.  There is potential for addiction, but if you can use them responsibly and don't have addiction issues, it's no big deal.  If you find yourself popping them every day, it's time to stop.

What about morons taking them 3-4 times per week to deal with stress while taking test and a ton of other drugs as well? :D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: G o a t b o y on July 08, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
What about morons taking them 3-4 times per week to deal with stress while taking test and a ton of other drugs as well? :D


You're just pissed off you can't get any of this shit from your "enlightened" socialized medicine over there.  :D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 08, 2009, 08:15:42 PM

You're just pissed off you can't get any of this shit from your "enlightened" socialized medicine over there.  :D

Debussey = fed more than enough meds in the mental asylum >:(
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: ChristopherA on July 08, 2009, 08:23:06 PM
Cure:



(http://www.heroin.org.uk/papaver.jpg)
Amen!  ;D
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: arce1988 on July 09, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
life sucks...
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: disco_stu on July 09, 2009, 01:22:10 AM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

are you serious?

does it exist?

its as real as the holocaust was.

to write such a thing to me is blasphemy in its purest sense. Try telling those loved ones of those whove taken their own lives that depression doesnt exist.

The fact is that unless youve suffered it, you'll never be able to get yoiur head around it. Even those who have been treated cant "make themselves" think about suicide and cant fathom how they were like that before..

you obviously dont know anyone who suffers from it.

its real, its serious, and it can be fatal. its a shame ppl like yourself still have to ask. until it gets recognised as the danger to life that  the statistics show it is, then its never going to get the funding to prevent it..

the sad thing is, that steroids and hormones like the ones BB athletes use, are very potent activators of one's propensity to be depressed as it hogs receptors in the brain that would otherwise be used for transmittal of endorphins...yet we still insist that steroids are soft drugs...

i could go on and on.

hey, tell me why a new mother kills herself and her 7 month old babies after living a blessed life and having evertything to live for?...and what about the guy that decides to kill his schoolmates one day?

fact is that you dont just catch it...all the pieces need to be present..for some its purely genetic..i.e. they could be destined to get depressed..for others they may have some trauma that sets it off, for others they may need several tragic events..and so on..
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Meso_z on July 09, 2009, 01:35:39 AM
Cure:



(http://www.heroin.org.uk/papaver.jpg)

cure.

(http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2008/02/11/whisky_narrowweb__300x405,0.jpg)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: disco_stu on July 09, 2009, 01:43:07 AM
actually you might be joking, but opiates are certainly an intervention for those on suicide watch.

the problem with opiates is that they require higher and higher doses, and eventually the doses are so massive that it manifests as psychotic symptoms and the come down/detox is horrendous.

buprenorphine is another intervention type drug..but despite the documented mild comedown, it is still hell on earth..dont let anyone tell you it aint.

still, for those where nothing else works, these at least give some life.

alcohol is another story as its a nasty depressant...you should not use it even for intervention..if you want tio kill yourself now, you'll porobably do it after leaning on alcohol for self medication purposes...

also, this crap in this thread about one AD being better than another, and AA's being superior to ADs, and SSRIs> SNRIs,and MAOIs,and tricylclics and so on, is, well, complete crap.

the problem is that noone has mapped the brain well enough to be able to work out exactly how these things work- which is why some people can and others cant be fixed...no one really knows..maybe in 100 years when we've mapped it a little better..

no one mentioned deep brain or vagus nerve stimulation..apparently DBS give immediate and marked relief to those in despair...they effectively turn off, or turn on parts of the brain...its the modern form of removing chunks of brain tissue.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Wizard of Truth on July 09, 2009, 02:36:24 AM
Clinical depression exists
to others it seems you have everything you want like looks,money,muscles and pink t-shirts yet you sometimes feel worthless and that there is no point to life
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Deicide on July 09, 2009, 02:47:13 AM
Yes, it exists.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Van_Bilderass on July 09, 2009, 03:41:15 AM
Xanax is also superior to SSRI's.  Unfortunately, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac et al are the first things docs reach for, and in 80% of the cases, they're not the right answer.

Superior for what condition? Benzos are well known to worsen depression over the long term. For rapid anxiolytic effect they are of course superior.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Deicide on July 09, 2009, 04:18:22 AM
Superior for what condition? Benzos are well known to worsen depression over the long term. For rapid anxiolytic effect they are of course superior.

QFT
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: honest on July 09, 2009, 04:23:52 AM
Word of advice to anyone over 30 who develops "depression":  before you let them put you on an SSRI or other b/s, get your testosterone levels checked, and try test replacement first.

Totally agree good advice.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Deicide on July 09, 2009, 04:26:02 AM
Totally agree good advice.

You're pretty honest, honest.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Van_Bilderass on July 09, 2009, 04:30:11 AM
Team Horribly Honest
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Deicide on July 09, 2009, 04:31:10 AM
Team Horribly Honest

Better than Team Horrible Genetics
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 09, 2009, 04:31:17 AM
Team Horribly Honest

Brutal name.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Deicide on July 09, 2009, 04:32:21 AM
Brutal name.

Poor posting genetics right there...
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Tapeworm on July 09, 2009, 06:19:31 AM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

You will... sooner or later.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2009, 06:41:08 AM
To clarify i understand proper clinical depressions.

but

i see so mnay turds on anti depressants who hjust dont work get free moneyt and seem relatively normal people
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Mr Nobody on July 09, 2009, 09:38:31 AM
Debussey thinks your far off base here. Perhaps not in the most pill-happy societies, but in many countries where the usage of prescription drugs = more restrictive (like in Norway).

The problem is that people who are depressed often can't just "think themselves out of it". Many needs the meds just to be able to function so that they can go into therapy, and even if a person JUST goes for therapy to get better the road to recovery is still often very long.

If therapy will help you heal your depression in 6-12 months, you've still been wasting that time being depressed. If somebody can get well while not feeling like shit due to meds, it = better. No reason spending your precious hours feeling bad if you can avoid it.
Spot on - A surprising post by Debussey
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 09, 2009, 10:31:05 AM

That is OPIUM. It's a natural plant that has been used for thousands of years.


St. Johns wart has been proven useless.

you must not read the literature then because there have been a couple studies showing it effective for MDD, and in a head to head RCT with prozac, it lowered depressive symptoms and was tolerated better.

quite a ridiculous statement
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 09, 2009, 10:32:30 AM
Superior for what condition? Benzos are well known to worsen depression over the long term. For rapid anxiolytic effect they are of course superior.

they are known to worsen anxiety symptoms once tolerance builds and dose escalation sets in also, bad option for anxiety.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 09, 2009, 10:39:58 AM

That is OPIUM. It's a natural plant that has been used for thousands of years.


St. Johns wart has been proven useless.

everytime i converse with you about science you make bold proclamations that you cant substantiate.

1: Phytomedicine. 2009 Apr;16(4):277-83. Epub 2009 Mar 18. Links
Long-term effects of St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) treatment: a 1-year safety study in mild to moderate depression.Brattström A.
Max Zeller Söhne Zeller AG, Seeblickstr. 4, CH-8590 Romanshorn, Switzerland. axel.brattstroem@zellerag.ch

Long-term safety and the effects of a St. John's wort (SJW) extract Ze 117 (Hypericum perforatum) were evaluated in the treatment of patients with depression. An open multicentre safety study with 440 out-patients suffering from mild to moderate depression according to ICD-10 was conducted. Patients were treated for up to 1 year with 500 mg St. John's wort extract per day (Ze 117). Evaluation criteria were safety (adverse event frequency) and influence on depression (HAM-D, CGI). Two hundred and seventeen (49%) patients reported 504 adverse events, 30 (6%) of which were possibly or probably related to the treatment. Gastrointestinal and skin complaints were the most common events associated with treatment. No age-related difference in the safety of the applied medication was found. The long-term intake of up to 1 year of the study medication did not result in any changes in clinical chemistry and electrocardiogram recordings. Body mass index (BMI) did not change either. Mean HAM-D scores decreased steadily from 20.58 at baseline to 12.07 at week 26 and to 11.18 at week 52. Mean CGI scores decreased from 3.99 to 2.20 at week 26 and 2.19 at week 52. Therefore, St. John's wort extract ZE 117 is a safe and effective way to treat mild to moderate depression over long periods of time, and therefore seems especially suitable for a relapse prevention.

1: J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2005 Oct;25(5):441-7. Links
A Double-blind, randomized trial of St John's wort, fluoxetine, and placebo in major depressive disorder.Fava M, Alpert J, Nierenberg AA, Mischoulon D, Otto MW, Zajecka J, Murck H, Rosenbaum JF.
Depression Clinical and Research Program, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02114, USA. mfava@partners.org

OBJECTIVE: This study looks to compare the antidepressant efficacy and safety of a standardized extract of St John's wort with both placebo and fluoxetine. METHOD: After a 1-week single-blind washout, patients with major depressive disorder diagnosed by Structured Clinical Interview for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition were randomized to 12 weeks of double-blind treatment with LI-160 St John's wort extract (900 mg/d), fluoxetine (20 mg/d), or placebo. The 17-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAMD-17) was the primary efficacy measure, and analysis of covariance was used to compare differences in end point HAMD-17 scores across the 3 treatment groups, treating the baseline HAMD-17 as the covariate. RESULTS: One hundred thirty-five patients (57% women; mean age, 37.3 +/- 11.0; mean HAMD-17, 19.7 +/- 3.2) were randomized to double-blind treatment and were included in the intent-to-treat analyses. Analysis of covariance analyses showed lower mean HAMD-17 scores at end point in the St John's wort group (n = 45; mean +/- SD, 10.2 +/- 6.6) compared with the fluoxetine group (n = 47; 13.3 +/- 7.3; P < 0.03) and a trend toward a similar finding relative to the placebo group (n = 43; 12.6 +/- 6.4; P = 0.096). There was also a trend toward higher rates of remission (HAMD-17 <8) in the St John's wort group (38%) compared with the fluoxetine group (30%) and the placebo group (21%). Overall, St John's wort appeared to be safe and well tolerated. CONCLUSION: St John's wort was significantly more effective than fluoxetine and showed a trend toward superiority over placebo. A (25%) smaller than planned sample size is likely to account for the lack of statistical significance for the advantage (indicating a moderate effect size, d = 0.45) of St John's wort over placebo.


ANOTHER


Main results
A total of 29 trials (5489 patients) including 18 comparisons with placebo and 17 comparisons with synthetic standard antidepressants met the inclusion criteria. Results of placebo-controlled trials showed marked heterogeneity. In nine larger trials the combined response rate ratio (RR) for hypericum extracts compared with placebo was 1.28 (95% confidence interval (CI), 1.10 to 1.49) and from nine smaller trials was 1.87 (95% CI, 1.22 to 2.87). Results of trials comparing hypericum extracts and standard antidepressants were statistically homogeneous. Compared with tri- or tetracyclic antidepressants and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), respectively, RRs were 1.02 (95% CI, 0.90 to 1.15; 5 trials) and 1.00 (95% CI, 0.90 to 1.11; 12 trials). Both in placebo-controlled trials and in comparisons with standard antidepressants, trials from German-speaking countries reported findings more favourable to hypericum. Patients given hypericum extracts dropped out of trials due to adverse effects less frequently than those given older antidepressants (odds ratio (OR) 0.24; 95% CI, 0.13 to 0.46) or SSRIs (OR 0.53, 95% CI, 0.34-0.83).

Authors' conclusions
The available evidence suggests that the hypericum extracts tested in the included trials a) are superior to placebo in patients with major depression; b) are similarly effective as standard antidepressants; c) and have fewer side effects than standard antidepressants. The association of country of origin and precision with effects sizes complicates the interpretation.


There are three other studies on MDD and SJW one showing it effective and two showing it is not, the effective one is newer while the two negatives are back in 2001. They are also flawed in the temporal variable, giving only 4 weeks to measure effect, quite a retarded proposal.

Read before you shoot down potentially important information that can help others. SJW is the best antidepressant in terms of effects to side effects. While i would choose others in extreme cases with co-morbid issues, it is a better option then SSRIS which are no more effective then placebo according to pooling of all data availible.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081007192435.htm


"Overall, we found that the St. John's wort extracts tested in the trials were superior to placebos and as effective as standard antidepressants, with fewer side effects," says lead researcher, Klaus Linde of the Centre for Complementary Medicine in Munich, Germany.


just like accupunctures sole action is endorphin release, LMAO.. do yourself a favor and go to pubmed.

MELTDOWN

I WANT LULZ FROMYOU.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 09, 2009, 11:09:29 AM

SSRI's only "work" on a percentage (less than half) of patients who try them, and no one, including the developers/manufacturers can demonstrate a mode of action or explain just exactly how they "work".  Sounds like hit or miss voodoo medicine to me.  :-\

Benzos are fine if used appropriately.  There is potential for addiction, but if you can use them responsibly and don't have addiction issues, it's no big deal.  If you find yourself popping them every day, it's time to stop.

i didnt see your post, the number is more like 70%. However, benzos as already mentioned worsen depression and xanax in particular lowers cortisol significantly, so if lethargy is part of the picture it may be a bad choice.

i use benzos a couple times a week for two years, i love them they are not an appropriate treatment or first line have you for long term indications like GAD, and especially not depressive syndromes. I use xanax also, simply for its cortisol antagonism, more likely ACTH ant. Valium increases test ;D

i do agree they are fine if use appropriately though. But long term studies have shown shortened life spans, more IBS, and stress syndromes and possible neurotoxicity.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: burn2live on July 09, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
To clarify i understand proper clinical depressions.

but

i see so mnay turds on anti depressants who hjust dont work get free moneyt and seem relatively normal people

It's Northern Ireland, they are lazy and want benefits!
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Deicide on July 09, 2009, 11:24:35 AM
I took 3 dumps today.
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Necrosis on July 10, 2009, 10:54:25 AM
BUMP for a response from liberalismo...
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Deicide on July 10, 2009, 11:00:43 AM
BUMP for a response from liberalismo...

Depression exists but you are immune to it.
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Necrosis on July 10, 2009, 11:24:29 AM
Depression exists but you are immune to it.

you are making me sad.
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: The Master on July 10, 2009, 11:27:18 AM
Depression exists but you are immune to it.

Necrosis used to shoulder press 125 pound dumbells at 21, and he was unfortunately paralyzed in a gocard accident not that long after that >:(

(http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/02/23-End/gary-busey-batshit-crazy.jpg)
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Spike on July 10, 2009, 11:31:28 AM
they gave me topamax for my AED and its also used as a mood enhancer when I looked it up


but they give it to cokeheads and drunkhards as well  ???
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: The Master on July 10, 2009, 11:32:56 AM
they gave me topamax for my AED and its also used as a mood enhancer when I looked it up


but they give it to cokeheads and drunkhards as well  ???

With all this shit, maybe the idea of injecting yourself with vast quantities of BBing drugs = not such a good idea? ;D
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: body88 on July 10, 2009, 11:34:08 AM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

Your posts have been getting dumber by the month, my friend  :(
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Spike on July 10, 2009, 11:35:04 AM
With all this shit, maybe the idea of injecting yourself with vast quantities of BBing drugs = not such a good idea? ;D

but if I get small I wont have anything to live for debussey :'(
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: The Master on July 10, 2009, 11:38:45 AM
but if I get small I wont have anything to live for debussey :'(

Yes you will. You can go to gospel church and sing along with Gary and Debussey!

(http://www.journeywithjesus.net/Essays/AfricanWoman_sm.jpg)

(http://pinstripebindi.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/gary-busey-evicted.jpg)

Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Spike on July 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
if duck goes I'm game

 :D
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: _bruce_ on July 10, 2009, 11:49:34 AM
He who is depressed, ceases to exist.
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: The Master on July 10, 2009, 11:51:16 AM
if duck goes I'm game

 :D

Duck, Dump and Donald Lawrence won't be seen around because Gary wants to hear his voice, but Duck might climb up in the tree next to the church in her camo suit with binoculars. She's a persistent bugger  >:(
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Deicide on July 10, 2009, 11:51:51 AM
He who is depressed, ceases to exist.

Title: Re: Depression
Post by: tbombz on July 10, 2009, 11:58:11 AM


The problem is that people who are depressed often can't just "think themselves out of it".
 basically nobody can

william james, famous philosopher/psychologist.....is well known for the fact that he willed himself out of a severe depression.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: The Master on July 10, 2009, 11:59:56 AM
 basically nobody can

william james, famous philosopher/psychologist.....is well known for the fact that he willed himself out of a severe depression.

Maybe he drank sperm?
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Doug_Steele on July 10, 2009, 12:24:15 PM
Duck, Dump and Donald Lawrence won't be seen around because Gary wants to hear his voice, but Duck might climb up in the tree next to the church in her camo suit with binoculars. She's a persistent bugger  >:(

Will there be Ducktales on the T.V.? woo hooo!! I take Clonazepam for depression, Keppra for Epilepsy and Ritalin to pay attention!! WOOO WOOO!!!
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: TechnoViking on July 10, 2009, 07:22:29 PM
You are either a GENIUS OR BATSHIT...Everyone else will be forgotten worker ants... ;)
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: jtsunami on July 10, 2009, 10:51:40 PM

Or they could just become a Xanor/Xanax addict! :D

not for depression, either way this thread starter is an idiot.

jt
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Necrosis on July 12, 2009, 09:01:12 AM
bump for liberalismo who hates science
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: Tre on July 12, 2009, 09:42:27 AM

Not even going to bother to read this thread.

'Clinical depression'  ::) exists, because it enables pharmaceutical companies to sell people a whole lot of daily-use medications that they don't actually need.

Truth.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: liberalismo on July 21, 2009, 03:50:00 AM
you must not read the literature then because there have been a couple studies showing it effective for MDD, and in a head to head RCT with prozac, it lowered depressive symptoms and was tolerated better.

quite a ridiculous statement


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11939866
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Immortal_Technique on July 21, 2009, 05:41:12 AM
i listened to some guy on dennis miller's show whose kid had depression.

from what his kid went through, it seems very real.

but there's a difference between being depressed because you're ugly, don't get laid, broke, etc. and having clinical depression (wanting to kill yourself because you fail at some simple tasks, etc.)

Yes. Some people are basically born with difficient brain chemistry. This cannot be underestimated, as it differs greatly from simply being down about something that has actually happened in your life.

Some people have great lives, but have always been depressed, and don't know why, and can't imagine ever getting better, because there is no external reason. That is when it's scary.
Title: Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
Post by: lax on July 21, 2009, 05:51:45 AM
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

there is transient sadness

and deep deep depression...which is chemical and necessatates intervention
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 21, 2009, 07:33:58 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11939866

the sensitivity of that study blows nuts, not to mention the new studies contradict it and there are handfuls of small trials in the past showing its efficacy.

also in your study zoloft was worse then placebo, so using your logic based on this crappy review, zoloft=useless
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: liberalismo on July 21, 2009, 01:52:17 PM
the sensitivity of that study blows nuts, not to mention the new studies contradict it and there are handfuls of small trials in the past showing its efficacy.

also in your study zoloft was worse then placebo, so using your logic based on this crappy review, zoloft=useless


 If you use St. Johns wart and it helps then maybe it does, or maybe it doesn't. It definitely doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 21, 2009, 04:15:26 PM

 If you use St. Johns wart and it helps then maybe it does, or maybe it doesn't. It definitely doesn't work for me.

no science says it works and works better then ssris....

that is all, sure they dont work for some but it is a very good drug with less sides the zoloft for instance, you made a ridiculous claim that it has been proven to not work, which is patently false, that is all

Title: Re: Depression
Post by: liberalismo on July 23, 2009, 04:13:34 AM
no science says it works and works better then ssris....

that is all, sure they dont work for some but it is a very good drug with less sides the zoloft for instance, you made a ridiculous claim that it has been proven to not work, which is patently false, that is all




Now you're pushing it. "Science" doesn't say anything, specific studies say certain things. Do you have proof that "most" studies, I.E. a total consensus supports the idea that St. Johns wart works better than SSRI's?
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: Necrosis on July 23, 2009, 06:52:49 PM

Now you're pushing it. "Science" doesn't say anything, specific studies say certain things. Do you have proof that "most" studies, I.E. a total consensus supports the idea that St. Johns wart works better than SSRI's?

science is the method of gaining knowledge or facts. Studies are how we gain this info. the current literature supports the contention that ssris are at best just as effective as SJW and worse wrt side effects. On top of that there are some possible data manipulation issues with ssris surfacing.

so the studies that have been conducted comparing them head to head are in favor of SJW. SSRIS however have been studied more extensively.

you were wrong, just admit as such and move along. You seem to hate alternative medicine yet lack knowledge of it.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: liberalismo on July 31, 2009, 03:59:35 AM
science is the method of gaining knowledge or facts. Studies are how we gain this info. the current literature supports the contention that ssris are at best just as effective as SJW and worse wrt side effects. On top of that there are some possible data manipulation issues with ssris surfacing.

so the studies that have been conducted comparing them head to head are in favor of SJW. SSRIS however have been studied more extensively.

you were wrong, just admit as such and move along. You seem to hate alternative medicine yet lack knowledge of it.

Millions of people take SSRIs with good results. This has been studied.
Title: Re: Depression
Post by: rockyfortune on July 31, 2009, 04:52:01 AM
Millions of people take SSRIs with good results. This has been studied.


the problem with SSRIs is that they work..but they cause other issues...excessive tiredness...weight gain...constipation and a whole slew of ''other'' physical problems..so while you may be happy..you are a fat bastard that can't shit and when you do sit on the pot you fall asleep.