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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on July 13, 2009, 12:59:36 PM
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Obama threatens veto if defense bill funds F-22s
The Hill ^ | July 23. 2009 | Roxana Tiron
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 2:28:21 PM by jazusamo
In an unusual move, President Obama sent a letter to the leaders of the Senate Armed Services Committee vowing to veto any defense bill that funds more Lockheed Martin F-22 fighter jets.
Obama threw down the gauntlet as the Senate took up the 2010 defense authorization bill. The firm commitment to veto any defense bill containing funding for the F-22 puts Obama in a tough position: he would veto bills written by a Democratic Congress.
The letter to Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) comes as the two senators introduced an amendment to strip $1.75 billion for seven additional F-22s from the Pentagon policy bill.
“...I will veto any bill that supports acquisition of F-22s beyond the 187 already funded by Congress,” Obama wrote on Monday. The Obama administration wants to cap the F-22 fleet at 187 aircraft.
The Senate could face a close vote on whether to strip the money from the defense authorization bill. Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) won narrow support for an amendment to authorize funds for more F-22s when the Armed Services Committee marked up the bill last month. Levin and McCain opposed it at the time.
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Just wow.
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As long as the JSF is on track to be 2500+ plane program, I'm fine with this. The F-22 will most likely not be able to be exported and there are some problems with sustaining to big a fleet. It is the most dominant aircraft in history but its development by LockMart was pretty brutal.
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As long as the JSF is on track to be 2500+ plane program, I'm fine with this. The F-22 will most likely not be able to be exported and there are some problems with sustaining to big a fleet. It is the most dominant aircraft in history but its development by LockMart was pretty brutal.
From what i understand, the F22 is the same as a few F15's.
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LMAO! What a fucking clown Obama is. He was willing to fucking support $700+ billion bailouts for WallStreet and Banks but a measly fucking $1.75 billion for a few more F-22's get his homo panties in a bunch? Fuck this clown!
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Why the veto?
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main reason he would stop the funds on the F22s: STARSCREAM
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From what i understand, the F22 is the same as a few F15's.
Read about the F-22 and its capabilities, it would annihilate several F-15's on its own at the same time. It has actually done this in exercises. The F-15's were knocked out of the sky before they even knew the F-22 was around.
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LMAO! What a fucking clown Obama is. He was willing to fucking support $700+ billion bailouts for WallStreet and Banks but a measly fucking $1.75 billion for a few more F-22's get his homo panties in a bunch? Fuck this clown!
x2.
I guess the military didn't kick in enough campain funds.
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The F22 is here...the JSF has tons of issues, many of our NATO partners are waffling on its future development. We have the production lines open on the F22..the JSF might has well be a space ship...its not in production. Barry is a worthless asshat.
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The F22 is here...the JSF has tons of issues, many of our NATO partners are waffling on its future development. We have the production lines open on the F22..the JSF might has well be a space ship...its not in production. Barry is a worthless asshat.
True. But the F-22 does have some sustainment issues as well, spare parts, software upgrades etc. Building 1,000 of these would lead to a lot of problems with upkeep in the future. LockMart fucked up a bit with its development of it, but the Obama seems to be putting all of the eggs in the JSF basket and the JSF is years away.
When it comes down to it, the Air Force is going to need new airframes to replace the rapidly aging fleet.
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Long term use and development of UAV's might play something into these decisions.
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Yet another accurate and informative thread being avoided like a rabid bear/lion/dragon by the getbig socialist nut bin.
;D
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Brixton you are absolutely correct. Ozmo, UAV's have their place, but it certainly isn't against manned jet fighters. The F-22 is and will continue to be the baddest fighting plane on the planet. Coupled with our F-15's(which often have mechanical problems) our air superiority will continue. I personally think it's dumb/naive on Obama's part to halt manufacturing of these aircraft.
Just my 2
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Id just like to know from the military men here why you would need anymore F-22's? If theyre so dominant and you have 190 of them already then that by my calculation means they could comfortably take out close to 1000 F-15's
no other country has near that amount of aircraft apart from Russia...so unless your planning on picking a fight with them I'd save your cash for something more useful.
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The JSF... Are you guys talking about the F-35? ???
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LMAO! What a fucking clown Obama is. He was willing to fucking support $700+ billion bailouts for WallStreet and Banks but a measly fucking $1.75 billion for a few more F-22's get his homo panties in a bunch? Fuck this clown!
So I take it you have no problem with the Military getting around 30 percent of the national budget?
Where is the excessive spending gonna end?
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The F22 is here...the JSF has tons of issues, many of our NATO partners are waffling on its future development. We have the production lines open on the F22..the JSF might has well be a space ship...its not in production. Barry is a worthless asshat.
Agreed I was watching a documentary on the two competing companies, which could do it the cheapest. It somewhat resembles the F-22, but the Raptor of course has more capabilities. I believe the JSF can land and take off vertically, but maintenance on that and the F22 will probably be a bitch. From what I understand (and my knowledge is limited) the latest Soviet Su class fighter can match the F22.
As far as Obama, I don't know the ends and outs, but hopefully this is not a true sign of things to come in terms of our military tech...The Airforce is now researching wings that are flexible and look and act like a bird's wing (not like the fixed swing wing design), but foldible.
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To answer your question hereford, yes the jsf is the x/f-35.
To address the underlying issue, the F-22 is much more capable than the F-35(x-35, from here on, F-35). The F-22 easily outperforms the F-35, but the F-35 is intended to be a fighter that many countries possess(fuck all that noise, America should have the best fighter, shit, we're paying for most of the F-35). I can't think of a reason to replace the F-22 other than to give other countries an even playing field(again fuck all that noise). The only thing I can point to is one world gov. Sounds crazy, but whatever.
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Obama is threading on thin ice...
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Obama is threading on thin ice...
agreed.
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agreed.
Unless there are viable technological alternatives justifying not renewing/buying more, defense spending is great way to stimulate the economy... better than "infrastructure projects" going nofuckingwhere....
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Unless there are viable technological alternatives justifying not renewing/buying more, defense spending is great way to stimulate the economy... better than "infrastructure projects" going nofuckingwhere....
Look at Japan.
They have extremely impressive infrastructure with their Shinkansen high speed trains running for 30 plus years.
Imagine what USA would be like if there was a high speed train line from Seattle all the way to San Diego, and the same on the east coast.
Perhaps even a huge high speed railway could be built across the inland, to connect the west with the east.
And the point being some may ask.
Having short travel distances between major cities improves business, science exchange and everything.
So I think spending a big part of the military budget on either tax cuts or infrastructure would be a smart move.
With tax cuts you would obviously free up a lot of liquidity.
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Look at Japan.
They have extremely impressive infrastructure with their Shinkansen high speed trains running for 30 plus years.
Imagine what USA would be like if there was a high speed train line from Seattle all the way to San Diego, and the same on the east coast.
Perhaps even a huge high speed railway could be built across the inland, to connect the west with the east.
And the point being some may ask.
Having short travel distances between major cities improves business, science exchange and everything.
So I think spending a big part of the military budget on either tax cuts or infrastructure would be a smart move.
With tax cuts you would obviously free up a lot of liquidity.
Everyone is now admitting that the stimulus bill was a lie. The infrastructure spending is only 10% of the total bill, while entitlement spending and govt payroll support is the balance.
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Everyone is now admitting that the stimulus bill was a lie. The infrastructure spending is only 10% of the total bill, while entitlement spending and govt payroll support is the balance.
I won't argue with you on that because I have too little information to form a qualified opinion.
But regardless - if the military budget would shrink to 15-20 percent of the budget, there would be a lot of room for eg tax cuts.
My point was pretty much only that a huge military budget means that the taxes will go up.
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Look at Japan.
They have extremely impressive infrastructure with their Shinkansen high speed trains running for 30 plus years.
Imagine what USA would be like if there was a high speed train line from Seattle all the way to San Diego, and the same on the east coast.
Perhaps even a huge high speed railway could be built across the inland, to connect the west with the east.
And the point being some may ask.
Having short travel distances between major cities improves business, science exchange and everything.
So I think spending a big part of the military budget on either tax cuts or infrastructure would be a smart move.
With tax cuts you would obviously free up a lot of liquidity.
I agree. If we are going to spend almost 1 trillion dollars on a Stimulus Bill, why can't the Govt. begin to start big infrastructure projects,like you mentioned, that would change the way we travel and the speed at which we do it? Why give ALL the money directly to the state govt's so they can patch holes in their budgets, repave roads and throw it at god knows what else (I'm from IL so I know all about this)?
I believe that part of the reason was to make sure there was enough money thrown around in Dem. states to ensure victories for the incumbents come election time in a few years. Cynical, yes, but it makes sense.
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I agree. If we are going to spend almost 1 trillion dollars on a Stimulus Bill, why can't the Govt. begin to start big infrastructure projects,like you mentioned, that would change the way we travel and the speed at which we do it? Why give ALL the money directly to the state govt's so they can patch holes in their budgets, repave roads and throw it at god knows what else (I'm from IL so I know all about this)?
I believe that part of the reason was to make sure there was enough money thrown around in Dem. states to ensure victories for the incumbents come election time in a few years. Cynical, yes, but it makes sense.
China passed a real stimulus bill and its working.
Its amazing, a communist country is more capitilistic than we are!
The Chinese get it, we do not not.
The Chinese know that en economy has to be based on production, not consumption. The fool in the WH is cheering the fact that most new jobs may be in Education and Health Care. Thats exactly the wrong direction!
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I won't argue with you on that because I have too little information to form a qualified opinion.
But regardless - if the military budget would shrink to 15-20 percent of the budget, there would be a lot of room for eg tax cuts.
My point was pretty much only that a huge military budget means that the taxes will go up.
Ok. The Defense budget is about $625 billion dollars, but it doesn't include all the other "tagged on" expenses like the 2 wars etc. So the real cost is closer, I've read, to about 1 trillion.
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The Chinese know that en economy has to be based on production, not consumption. The fool in the WH is cheering the fact that most new jobs may be in Education and Health Care. Thats exactly the wrong direction!
Of course they understand that "theirs" is based on production; we are their consumers.
Being on top of the heap, we cannot have a strictly industrial production based economy, it just doesn't make sense; instead it makes sense to be cutting edge in technology R&D, medical science and financial services.
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Of course they understand that "theirs" is based on production; we are their consumers.
Being on top of the heap, we cannot have a strictly industrial production based economy, it just doesn't make sense; instead it makes sense to be cutting edge in technology R&D, medical science and financial services.
Yep. China has little domestic consumption and a majority of the population (I believe the majority) still live in conditions that would make us cringe. Remember, China is a communist country with a state run media and heavy controls and what goes in and what goes out.
For our nation, I will agree with Alex23, we have passed our Industrial Revolution and now need to move on. We will never again assemble TV's or radios or CD players, we will leave that to cheaper and less skilled/educated labor, but we WILL produce that research necessary to design and engineer these products and also build the specialty parts and components that couldn't be handled elsewhere. Dow Corning in Michigan produces the clear panels for LCD screens, for example.
The only problem with this is organized labor and our relatively poor k-12 education system.
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Ok. The Defense budget is about $625 billion dollars, but it doesn't include all the other "tagged on" expenses like the 2 wars etc. So the real cost is closer, I've read, to about 1 trillion.
Thos tagged expenses go away in 2011, so the budget is the budget. Barry expects to take the savings from Iraq and roll it into other things. We're feeling it now. No more bonuses and they have cut 2 BDE's that they planned to stand up. They're also cutting back reenlisments. They need to trim 20,000 folks out. They also said they want to grow by 30K so i don't know what they're thinking either.
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China also has its share of problems internally. The economic zones were built with heavy investment and know-how from the West. Much of the building design and construction was from Western firms....
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China passed a real stimulus bill and its working.
Its amazing, a communist country is more capitilistic than we are!
The Chinese get it, we do not not.
The Chinese know that en economy has to be based on production, not consumption. The fool in the WH is cheering the fact that most new jobs may be in Education and Health Care. Thats exactly the wrong direction!
I was listening to C-span where they were covering the their Stimulus Bill, experts and translators were saying that a typical Chinese household tend to have if I recall 50% debt whereas a typical American household has well over 100%. The Chinese tend to be very conservative with their spending, whereas Americans spend on the "have to have it" concept...Kinda odd in that if we were to spend conservatively, then they would have less goods to make, and therefore less cheap jobs, which would be mean trouble for not just the Chinese economic situation, but their social system as well.
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I think they're becoming more Westernized and will spend more. We're told one minute to save and another to spend. The more infrastucture they build into the heartland, the more stuff they'll want.
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I think they're becoming more Westernized and will spend more. We're told one minute to save and another to spend. The more infrastucture they build into the heartland, the more stuff they'll want.
They view alot of our stuff as the real deal, they view Chinese domestic stuff as well, cheap, tacky and not well made. Ironic uh?
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Their rubber dog shit still reigns supreme. The more we export our culture, the less a threat China becomes.
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Their rubber dog shit still reigns supreme. The more we export our culture, the less a threat China becomes.
X10¹º
I don't understand why people have such a hard time seeing that;
A good friend of mine was pretty high up at IBM PC division. When they spun it off and the Lenovo "brand" was started they offered him a solid package to stick around. The company is chinese owned but they were smart enough to realize that they need the corporate culture to remain AMERICAN in order to succeed and learn from it; quite opposite of the the Japs used to do.
Now, what did IBM do with all the cash from the sale of its now commodity PC business? Rumor is it's being invested in optic processor research and the next generation of high performance chipsets.
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You are going to have to export a hell of a lot of culture ::) Way closer cultures have had war after war. Even if we were the same, it's a simple propaganda campaign to instill rage in a population. You guys read any history? lol :D
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X10¹º
I don't understand why people have such a hard time seeing that;
A good friend of mine was pretty high up at IBM PC division. When they spun it off and the Lenovo "brand" was started they offered him a solid package to stick around. The company is chinese owned but they were smart enough to realize that they need the corporate culture to remain AMERICAN in order to succeed and learn from it; quite opposite of the the Japs used to do.
Now, what did IBM do with all the cash from the sale of its now commodity PC business? Rumor is it's being invested in optic processor research and the next generation of high performance chipsets.
Not much in the way of profit margins from simply assembling PC's. Texas Instruments realized this when they spun of their Memory chip division. Give some nation the scraps and plow the money into the next generation of tech to remain dominant and one/two/three steps ahead of the competition. IBM learned this from their flirtations with bankruptcy not to long ago. They ditched all the basic shit and got into servers, tech and the like.
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You are going to have to export a hell of a lot of culture ::) Way closer cultures have had war after war. Even if we were the same, it's a simple propaganda campaign to instill rage in a population. You guys read any history? lol :D
It's not about "exporting it", it's about globalizing it.
It's already too late anyway; the Victorians have layed the foundation over 100 years ago; globalized english.
You seriously think english will be toppled and instead "mandarin" will take over?
The American/Western Pop culture penetration only grows by the day; there are no replacements to pepsi/coca cola/Nike/McDonalds'/Hollywood....
Once corporations globalized, there are no way back.
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It's not about "exporting it", it's about globalizing it.
It's already too late anyway; the Victorians have layed the foundation over 100 years ago; globalized english.
You seriously think english will be toppled and instead "mandarin" will take over?
The American/Western Pop culture penetration only grows by the day; there are no replacements to pepsi/coca cola/Nike/McDonalds'/Hollywood....
Once corporations globalized, there are no way back.
Just take a look at Japan. They are pretty xenophobic over there but they absolutely love American culture. All of it.