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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: MM2K on July 18, 2009, 09:35:52 PM
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Sign the petition to keep government's grubby hands off your healtcare.
http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/
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done
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No.
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No.
X2,,,there are homelss people out there have no healthcare
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Everyone has access to health CARE. Seven million people dont have health INSURANCE. Do you want to destroy the entire system because of seven million people?
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Thanks for the link
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No.
Que????
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Everyone has access to health CARE. Seven million people dont have health INSURANCE. Do you want to destroy the entire system because of seven million people?
More like FORTY-SEVEN million people without health insurance. And yes, that will be changed soon once Obama signs the new health care bill into law. So you can sign all the petitions you want but it isn't going to help. ;D
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More like FORTY-SEVEN million people without health insurance. And yes, that will be changed soon once Obama signs the new health care bill into law. So you can sign all the petitions you want but it isn't going to help. ;D
Thats more liberal lies. 15 million are illegal aliens who should be deported. 15 million are young people and peiople between the jobs. The real numer is about 8-10 million. We dont have to destroy the entire system for a number that low.
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Thats more liberal lies. 15 million are illegal aliens who should be deported. 15 million are young people and peiople between the jobs. The real numer is about 8-10 million. We dont have to destroy the entire system for a number that low.
Please. Far more than 10 million people are uninsured in America.
This analysis was updated on August 26, 2008 to reflect 2007 Census Data. View the new analysis
Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with 15.9 percent of Americans lacking health coverage. “The number of uninsured Americans reached an all-time high in 2005,” said Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “It is sobering that 5.4 million more people lacked health insurance in 2005 than in the recession year of 2001, primarily because of the erosion of employer-based insurance.”
Census data show that 46.6 million Americans were uninsured in 2005, an increase of 1.3 million from the number of uninsured in 2004 (45.3 million). The percentage who are uninsured rose from 15.6 percent in 2004 to 15.9 percent in 2005. The number of children who are uninsured rose from 7.9 million in 2004 to 8.3 million in 2005.
“The increase of 360,000 in the number of uninsured children is particularly troublesome,” Greenstein said. “Since 1998, the percentage of uninsured children has been dropping steadily, from a high of 15.4 percent to 10.8 percent in 2004. The new Census data show that the uninsured rate among children moved in the wrong direction in 2005, rising to 11.2 percent.”
Greenstein warned that matters could get worse. In fiscal year 2007, which begins October 1, children’s health insurance programs in 17 states face federal funding shortfalls totaling an estimated $800 million, equal to the cost of covering more than 500,000 low-income children. Congress has known about the shortfall since early February, when the Administration took note of it and proposed a measure to address it, but Congress has so far failed to act.
“Unless Congress takes action this year to avert the impending shortfall,” Greenstein said, “the increase in the number of children without health coverage is likely to accelerate in the year ahead.”
Health care reform is inevitable, so you'll just have to cry yourself to sleep over it. ;)
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Census Bureau: Number of U.S. Uninsured Rises to 47 Million Americans are Uninsured: Almost 5 Percent Increase Since 2005
Teddi Dineley Johnson
For the sixth consecutive year, the number of Americans living without health insurance has risen, according to new U.S. Census Bureau data. Approximately 2.2 million people were added to the uninsurance rolls in 2006 — the largest one-year increase in the number of uninsured Americans since 2002.
Annual Census Bureau estimates released in August show 47 million people, or 15.8 percent of the U.S. population, were without health insurance during 2006 — a 4.9 percent increase. In 2005, census figures showed that 44.8 million people, or about 15.3 percent of the population, lacked health insurance coverage.
The number of uninsured Americans has increased 22 percent since 2000, at which time 38.4 million people lacked health insurance.
Fewer Americans had employer-based coverage in 2006, the new data show. The percentage of people covered by employer plans fell from 60.2 percent in 2005 to 59.7 percent in 2006, according to the report, "Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States."
Also of note, more children were without health insurance in 2006, the census data showed. The percentage of uninsured children younger than 18 rose from 10.9 percent in 2005 to 11.7 percent in 2006. According to the data, children ages 12–17 were more likely to be uninsured than children younger than age 12.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/567737
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Please. Far more than 10 million people are uninsured in America.
This analysis was updated on August 26, 2008 to reflect 2007 Census Data. View the new analysis
Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with 15.9 percent of Americans lacking health coverage. “The number of uninsured Americans reached an all-time high in 2005,” said Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “It is sobering that 5.4 million more people lacked health insurance in 2005 than in the recession year of 2001, primarily because of the erosion of employer-based insurance.”
Census data show that 46.6 million Americans were uninsured in 2005, an increase of 1.3 million from the number of uninsured in 2004 (45.3 million). The percentage who are uninsured rose from 15.6 percent in 2004 to 15.9 percent in 2005. The number of children who are uninsured rose from 7.9 million in 2004 to 8.3 million in 2005.
“The increase of 360,000 in the number of uninsured children is particularly troublesome,” Greenstein said. “Since 1998, the percentage of uninsured children has been dropping steadily, from a high of 15.4 percent to 10.8 percent in 2004. The new Census data show that the uninsured rate among children moved in the wrong direction in 2005, rising to 11.2 percent.”
Greenstein warned that matters could get worse. In fiscal year 2007, which begins October 1, children’s health insurance programs in 17 states face federal funding shortfalls totaling an estimated $800 million, equal to the cost of covering more than 500,000 low-income children. Congress has known about the shortfall since early February, when the Administration took note of it and proposed a measure to address it, but Congress has so far failed to act.
“Unless Congress takes action this year to avert the impending shortfall,” Greenstein said, “the increase in the number of children without health coverage is likely to accelerate in the year ahead.”
Health care reform is inevitable, so you'll just have to cry yourself to sleep over it. ;)
And since 2004 we have had at least that man illegals flood our country. Whats your point?
The other nonsense that you refuse to acknowledge is that many of the people without insurance are already covered under som federal or state plan but are either too lazy or dont care to sign up.
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Thats more liberal lies. 15 million are illegal aliens who should be deported. 15 million are young people and peiople between the jobs. The real numer is about 8-10 million. We dont have to destroy the entire system for a number that low.
thats what glen beck told him
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thats what glen beck told him
The Real Numbers On Uninsured Healthcare People BOOM it
You have heard the numbers; 45 Million Americans uninsured. But not so fast, they are all not Americans uninsured, a bunch are people living in America illegally.
There is a lot more to behind the numbers.
Breakdown of numbers by the CBO, Census Bureau and others indicate:
1. There is a difference between health care and health insurance. Everyone has access to health care. They may not have health insurance, but the law mandates everyone who shows up at emergency rooms must be treated, insurance or not.
2. 46 million in America lack health insurance. The “in America” reference, as opposed to writing “46 million Americans,” is an important point because of those 46 million without insurance, an estimated 10 million or so are non-U.S. citizens, most living in this country illegally.
3. Millions can apparently afford health insurance but for whatever reason choose to not buy it. In 2007, an estimated 17.6 million of the uninsured made more than $50,000 per year, and more than 9 million of those made more than $75,000. According to researcher and author Sally Pipes, 38 percent of the U.S. uninsured population earn more than $50,000 per year.
3. Young workers often just don’t think about health insurance. The Census figures show that 18.3 million of the uninsured were under 34 who may simply not think about the need for insurance.
4. Government health insurance programs currently exist that aren’t being used. A 2003 Blue Cross/Blue Shield Association study estimated that about 14 million of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP and would be signed up automatically if they went to the hospital.
5. Many children who should be insured aren’t. This study by Georgetown University’s Health Policy Institute shows that 7 out of every 10 kids who lacks insurance could get it if their parents simply enrolled in current government programs.
6. Millions lose health insurance only temporarily through the year. The CBO has estimated that millions who fall into the uninsured category are those who have lost or left jobs and they will regain insurance once they return to work.
Thus, the 46 million figure should actually be closer to about 8 million truly uninsured. Too many are simply non-US citizens, not paying for insurance because they choose not to or feel too young to need it, or simply are not signing up for programs for which they are eligble.
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And since 2004 we have had at least that man illegals flood our country. Whats your point?
The other nonsense that you refuse to acknowledge is that many of the people without insurance are already covered under som federal or state plan but are either too lazy or dont care to sign up.
LOL
My POINT is that you have no idea what you are writing about.
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More like FORTY-SEVEN million people without health insurance. And yes, that will be changed soon once Obama signs the new health care bill into law. So you can sign all the petitions you want but it isn't going to help. ;D
Sure thing...I guess u don't read the news. Besides why do I care about 47 million when we have a country of over 300 million....why is this my problem.
Benny...its not my fucking problem that they don't have insurance.
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LOL
My POINT is that you have no idea what you are writing about.
Read my post. The 45 million number is a lie.
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The Real Numbers On Uninsured Healthcare People BOOM it
You have heard the numbers; 45 Million Americans uninsured. But not so fast, they are all not Americans uninsured, a bunch are people living in America illegally.
There is a lot more to behind the numbers.
Breakdown of numbers by the CBO, Census Bureau and others indicate:
1. There is a difference between health care and health insurance. Everyone has access to health care. They may not have health insurance, but the law mandates everyone who shows up at emergency rooms must be treated, insurance or not.
This post alone is priceless. ;D Yes, show up at an emergency room without insurance and you'll likely get treatment. You'll also walk out with a bill so big you will have to file bankruptcy to get out from underneath the crushing debt incurred.
Just lovely for all of the people who are self employed, working as waitresses, working two part time jobs, or who lost their jobs and can't afford to be even temporarily without insurance because of children or an existing condition. ::)
The right wing nut jobs who believe "all is well" with the current system will be run over and left in the dustbins of history when the new legislation is enacted.
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Sure thing...I guess u don't read the news. Besides why do I care about 47 million when we have a country of over 300 million....why is this my problem.
Benny...its not my fucking problem that they don't have insurance.
it is your problem, because they don't have regular doctors and don't get regular checkups and they use the emergency room as their doctors and as you know emergency rooms are the most expensive care you can have and if their not paying then you are
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it is your problem, because they don't have regular doctors and don't get regular checkups and they use the emergency room as their doctors and as you know emergency rooms are the most expensive care you can have and if their not paying then you are
That's fine, but my point is that we should figure out what the real number is and who these people are.
1. Young people dont need a cadillac plan. They need a high deductible catasproic plan in the event of a emergency.
2. illegals should not get squat. They should be referred to ICE when they show up at the ER.
3. See how many of the above may already be eligible for an existing plan. if we cvan help a few million people by putting them on existing plans without disrupting everyones elses plans, what the problem?
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This post alone is priceless. ;D Yes, show up at an emergency room without insurance and you'll likely get treatment. You'll also walk out with a bill so big you will have to file bankruptcy to get out from underneath the crushing debt incurred.
Just lovely for all of the people who are self employed, working as waitresses, working two part time jobs, or who lost their jobs and can't afford to be even temporarily without insurance because of children or an existing condition. ::)
The right wing nut jobs who believe "all is well" with the current system will be run over and left in the dustbins of history when the new legislation is enacted.
I could care less about these people..why is any of this my fault. This is the problme with douchbag libs..u feel bad... u feel that people ought to have care. Well guess what, we canm't fucking afford it..not my problem. The backlash from all of this will make make bush hate look like a pillow fight.
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I could care less about these people..why is any of this my fault. This is the problme with douchbag libs..u feel bad... u feel that people ought to have care. Well guess what, we canm't fucking afford it..not my problem. The backlash from all of this will make make bush hate look like a pillow fight.
The reason health care is so expensive is because of peoples' demand for new tech, drugs, and the govt spending.
Look at almost every area in the economy where inflation is most rampant, its where the govt is involved. Also, the third party payer system does not work well. Consumers should be responsible for costs, not the govt or their employers.
Higher Education & Health Care are two clear cut examples where the govt greatly adds to the cost inflation. If we want the cost to go down, the govt needs less involvement in these areas so true market forces can dicatate price.
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I'd like to see an opposing arguement by the libs that doesn't envolve personal attacks or "feelings". I want to see where 3 is wrong and where or how we will afford any of this.
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I'd like to see an opposing arguement by the libs that doesn't envolve personal attacks or "feelings". I want to see where 3 is wrong and where or how we will afford any of this.
They wont, they all attack me, fine, BUT NEVER REFUTE MY ARGUMENTS.
Sure, if they want to attack me as cold, non-caring, etc, fine, but feelings dont make for good economic policies in the long run.
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I just want facts....I want an opinion that says...we can do this and we'll get money here etc. I want one of these idiots to stop feeling sorry for these people for a minute and look at the big picture. 45 million people of how many, don't have insurance? Please explain to me why its my problem that they don't have insurance, why I need to pay for it, and how I benefit.
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I just want facts....I want an opinion that says...we can do this and we'll get money here etc. I want one of these idiots to stop feeling sorry for these people for a minute and look at the big picture. 45 million people of how many, don't have insurance? Please explain to me why its my problem that they don't have insurance, why I need to pay for it, and how I benefit.
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I just want facts....I want an opinion that says...we can do this and we'll get money here etc. I want one of these idiots to stop feeling sorry for these people for a minute and look at the big picture. 45 million people of how many, don't have insurance? Please explain to me why its my problem that they don't have insurance, why I need to pay for it, and how I benefit.
Funny thing is, I'm hell bent to see anyone admit there is even a problem.
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What alot of the pro-universal healthcare crowd won't tell you is that a good number of their statisitics on the uninsured come from illegals.
They won't bring that up because that would put them in a position that is very difficult to defend to most rational people.
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What alot of the pro-universal healthcare crowd won't tell you is that a good number of their statisitics on the uninsured come from illegals.
They won't bring that up because that would put them in a position that is very difficult to defend to most rational people.
That's right. 1/3 of the 45 million are illegal aliens.
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That's right. 1/3 of the 45 million are illegal aliens.
So it's 30 million people. Well that's ok then there's nothing wrong with our healthcare system.
PS: I thought it was 12 million illegals in our country?
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So it's 30 million people. Well that's ok then there's nothing wrong with our healthcare system.
PS: I thought it was 12 million illegals in our country?
There are many problems. No one is saying that. But even the CBO said this will increase the debt and deficit.
Additionally, you cant have 45 million new patients without doing tort reform and not expect a flood of new lawsuits.
Finally, you cant have 45 million new patients, without a flood of new providers, and not expect longer waits, rationing, and less levels of care.
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So it's 30 million people. Well that's ok then there's nothing wrong with our healthcare system.
PS: I thought it was 12 million illegals in our country?
That number is pure conjecture, and about 6-8 years old. 15-18m is thought to be more like it nowdays.
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There are between 12 and 18 million illegal immigrants in this country. There needs to be a provision to ensure these people are not covered with our tax dollars if there is any kind of gov plan passed. The moderate democrats need to push for this.
There are so many things that could be done by the government before pushing a nationalized plan! These items would be good whether or not we eventually decide to change to a public plan. There is no excuse why we wouldn't try interventions within the current system first...except that the president and some democratic leaders have a very specific agenda they are forcing down our throats.
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There are between 12 and 18 million illegal immigrants in this country. There needs to be a provision to ensure these people are not covered with our tax dollars if there is any kind of gov plan passed. The moderate democrats need to push for this.
There are so many things that could be done by the government before pushing a nationalized plan! These items would be good whether or not we eventually decide to change to a public plan. There is no excuse why we wouldn't try interventions within the current system first...except that the president and some democratic leaders have a very specific agenda they are forcing down our throats.
How about we treat illegals in the ER. As soon as they show up, they get treated and ICE gets called?
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There are between 12 and 18 million illegal immigrants in this country. There needs to be a provision to ensure these people are not covered with our tax dollars if there is any kind of gov plan passed. The moderate democrats need to push for this.
There are so many things that could be done by the government before pushing a nationalized plan! These items would be good whether or not we eventually decide to change to a public plan. There is no excuse why we wouldn't try interventions within the current system first...except that the president and some democratic leaders have a very specific agenda they are forcing down our throats.
Hey shoot, can you please explain "defensive medicine"?
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In general, it is the practice of using excessive testing and proceedures to justify a diagnosis or to rule out any possible other medical explanations, mainly in responce to the threat of a lawsuit.
Patients can sue the hospital and doctor for any reason, as long as a lawyer will take the case. In medicine, there are always bad outcomes...people may sue because of the outcome (which testing often doesn't change) or a failure to test. Some patients come in and want every test done in the book. Docs (and hospitals) are afraid of suits -because even if they are bad lawsuits, its always on your record and your malpractice costs go up forever- so they give in to patients and the treat of lawsuits.
We must also decrease spending and testing at the end of life. When a patient has less than 6 months or a year to live, we cannot continue to spend excessive amounts of money on their care. Defensive medicine practices, overtesting, frivelous lawsuits, allowing lawyers to push for excessive damages (because they receive a %), malpractice premiums, and excessive end of life spending are all significant factors driving up the costs of medicine.
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In general, it is the practice of using excessive testing and proceedures to justify a diagnosis or to rule out any possible other medical explanations, mainly in responce to the threat of a lawsuit.
Patients can sue the hospital and doctor for any reason, as long as a lawyer will take the case. In medicine, there are always bad outcomes...people may sue because of the outcome (which testing often doesn't change) or a failure to test. Some patients come in and want every test done in the book. Docs (and hospitals) are afraid of suits -because even if they are bad lawsuits, its always on your record and your malpractice costs go up forever- so they give in to patients and the treat of lawsuits.
We must also decrease spending and testing at the end of life. When a patient has less than 6 months or a year to live, we cannot continue to spend excessive amounts of money on their care. Defensive medicine practices, overtesting, frivelous lawsuits, allowing lawyers to push for excessive damages (because they receive a %), malpractice premiums, and excessive end of life spending are all significant factors driving up the costs of medicine.
That's my point. When these clowns say Med Mal judgements are a small percentage of overall costs, they ignore the fact that many procedures are being done just in CYA mode to avoid a lawsuit.
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How do you feel about veterans who are uninsured?
People who have defended this country should not be uninsured.
Illegals should not be insured, I agree with that.
Anyone thinking that people using emergency rooms as a personal doctor is no big deal is laughable.
With the downturn of the economy, hospitals and insurance companies are sticking it to the people who are insured.
So, once you are no longer in the military, or just lost your job. Unemployment benefits runs out, a low paying job doesn't give benefits, what do we as a people do to help each other.
Remember, at anytime that uninsured, unemployed person could be you or me.
Sandra
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In know the VA isn't very good, but don't all vets have access to the VA system?
We can work within the system to reduce the cost of healthcare, increase efficiency and allow more free competition between insurance companies (allow them to compete against each other across state lines). The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions. The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses. I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.
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In know the VA isn't very good, but don't all vets have access to the VA system?
We can work within the system to reduce the cost of healthcare, increase efficiency and allow more free competition between insurance companies (allow them to compete against each other across state lines). The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions. The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses. I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.
Yes we do...as well as Tri Care for life...as long as u pay the premium, it works like ur Insurance. I can also get varied levels of coverage and I can drop coverage and get gap/supplemental coverage that works great. U have to pay for it...much like anything else.
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There are many problems. No one is saying that. But even the CBO said this will increase the debt and deficit.
Additionally, you cant have 45 million new patients without doing tort reform and not expect a flood of new lawsuits.
Finally, you cant have 45 million new patients, without a flood of new providers, and not expect longer waits, rationing, and less levels of care.
I like your angle on TORT however, illegals are here to stay because the politicians will not get them out.
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In know the VA isn't very good, but don't all vets have access to the VA system?
We can work within the system to reduce the cost of healthcare, increase efficiency and allow more free competition between insurance companies (allow them to compete against each other across state lines). The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions. The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses. I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.
I think that vets are cut off if they earn 30k or more.
I would have to look it up.
There have been budget cuts in a lot of "social" programs, the VA among them.
Benefits of the military used to be one of the selling points of joining. Then it was the draw of college education.
Sandra
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There are many problems. No one is saying that.
NOT true. Some people say the lazy bastards need to work and sacrifice their cable bill for med insurance all the while never acknowledging that there is a serious problem with our health care.
It's ranked pathetically low, over bloated, over priced.
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Yes we do...as well as Tri Care for life...as long as u pay the premium, it works like ur Insurance. I can also get varied levels of coverage and I can drop coverage and get gap/supplemental coverage that works great. U have to pay for it...much like anything else.
The point is not all veterans are healthy enough to meld back to their former lives. Can't get your old job back, have mental, physical injuries due to the wars.
If you have to depend on disability and Social security, what is the quality of coverage do you get?
I guess that is why the Walter Reed scandal was so bad.
Sandra
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The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions.
The only way you could ban insurance companies from denying cheap insuarance to people with pre-existing conditions WITHOUT substantially raising the cost of insurance for others is if you forced everyone to get some form of basic insurance in the first place. And in practice Im not so sure that is feasable. Please understand that people with pre-existing conditions are not denied insurance. They just have to pay a much higher price for it than others which makes perfect sense.
The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses.
The government needs to either give tax breaks to individuals or subsidize individuals to buy private individual insurance. The central problem with the system is that there is no market for individual private insurance. It is all crowded out either by government or big employers. So the problem is the governement.
I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.
Those are the two sectors where government is MORE involved, not less. And government is the problem, not the solution.