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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on July 31, 2009, 12:32:19 PM
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GDP Drop smaller than expected, only 1%.
I have to believe, if the DOW was sunk to 3500 today, people would be blaming Obama's actions. yet he doesn't receive any credit for raising the DOW almost 1000 points since Bush left office.
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GDP Drop smaller than expected, only 1%.
I have to believe, if the DOW was sunk to 3500 today, people would be blaming Obama's actions. yet he doesn't receive any credit for raising the DOW almost 1000 points since Bush left office.
Do you really believe Obama had anythig to do with this?
If we are going to go down that route, come talk to me when the DOW gets back up around 14,000, then you can tell me how great Obama's policies are.
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Do you really believe Obama had anythig to do with this?
yes, i do. I believe he is trading long-term sustainability for short-term maintenance, there is no denying that.
But I do believe we are that high because of the cash he is sending (and will send) into the economy. To believe there is zero effect from the billions he has injected would be silly. Governors such as Jindal and friends have been announcing many big "Jobs Jobs Jobs!" programs in their states with the Stim money.
So, dude, are you saying that at 14,000 you would give Obama credit? So you won't credit him with a 1000 gain, but you would for 6,000?
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GDP Drop smaller than expected, only 1%.
I have to believe, if the DOW was sunk to 3500 today, people would be blaming Obama's actions. yet he doesn't receive any credit for raising the DOW almost 1000 points since Bush left office.
As I have stated numerous times.
Obama has little to do with any of this.
If you want to credit someone. Look at Bernanke.
The Fed and the TARP program kept the US economy going.
They seem to be indicated it was Bush and the Democratic congress that caused the turn around.
Not the 2009 Stimulus program.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/testimony/DBBB5C9F26B6440AA4A21E104A61577A.htm
Economic and Financial Developments in the First Half of 2009
Aggressive policy actions taken around the world last fall may well have averted the collapse of the global financial system, an event that would have had extremely adverse and protracted consequences for the world economy. Even so, the financial shocks that hit the global economy in September and October were the worst since the 1930s, and they helped push the global economy into the deepest recession since World War II. The U.S. economy contracted sharply in the fourth quarter of last year and the first quarter of this year. More recently, the pace of decline appears to have slowed significantly, and final demand and production have shown tentative signs of stabilization. The labor market, however, has continued to weaken. Consumer price inflation, which fell to low levels late last year, remained subdued in the first six months of 2009.
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yes, i do. I believe he is trading long-term sustainability for short-term maintenance, there is no denying that.
But I do believe we are that high because of the cash he is sending (and will send) into the economy. To believe there is zero effect from the billions he has injected would be silly. Governors such as Jindal and friends have been announcing many big "Jobs Jobs Jobs!" programs in their states with the Stim money.
So, dude, are you saying that at 14,000 you would give Obama credit? So you won't credit him with a 1000 gain, but you would for 6,000?
I wouldn't give him or any other politician credit for anything that happens in the private sector. The POTUS who ever it may be always wants credit when things are going well, and to blame the last administration when things are going shity. The only effect they have is what acts happen to be in place at the time, that allow or prohibit certain activities.
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without the simulus $, a nice chunk of these financial firms would be failed, right?]
That wouldn't have affected the DOW at all?
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without the simulus $, a nice chunk of these financial firms would be failed, right?]
That wouldn't have affected the DOW at all?
Stimulus had nothing to do with Banks.
The TARP program did.
By the way 240 most of the money from the Stimulus hasn't been spent yet.
http://www.recovery.gov/
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without the simulus $, a nice chunk of these financial firms would be failed, right?]
That wouldn't have affected the DOW at all?
Yeah and if the morons in washington wouldn't have repealed Glass/Steagal, supported CRA and numerouse other pieces of legislation ( ACTS) there wouldn't have been an environment available that lead to the financial mess. So yes the government gets credit for setting the environment for this shit to happen, they also get credit for stealing from Peter to pay Paul.
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According to 240 if 30 years from now there is a cure for Cancer, Aids, the common cold, alztheimers and tommorow if Osama Bin Laden is struck by lightening- Obama and the stimulus package should get the credit.
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Its like someone walks into your house and sets it on fire, then runs out side calls the fire department and gets the garden hose out. Then takes credit for putting out the fire. Sure it looks good on the surface, but your house is still destroyed.
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The stimulus is gold.
Lots of this money is just paying other level of governments salaries.
For example this
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=node/727
$52 Million in Recovery Funds Now Available for Vermont to Save Jobs and Drive Education Reform
Monday, July 27, 2009
Application for Part 1 of Vermont's State Stabilization Funds Approved Today
U. S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan today announced that more than $52 million is now available for Vermont under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) of 2009. This funding will lay the foundation for a generation of education reform and help save hundreds of thousands of teaching jobs at risk of state and local budget cuts. Vermont will be eligible to apply for another $25 million this fall. Today's funding is being made available per Vermont's successful completion of Part 1 of the State Stabilization Application, which was made available on April 1.
Can you explain to me how there are hundreds of thousands of teaching jobs in Vermont or how this is stimulating anything when it is just replacing money that these states took out of their budget.
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GDP Drop smaller than expected, only 1%.
I have to believe, if the DOW was sunk to 3500 today, people would be blaming Obama's actions. yet he doesn't receive any credit for raising the DOW almost 1000 points since Bush left office.
GDP "ONLY" SUNK 1% and this is scene as a good thing.Can you imagine?Did you happen to see the job numbers this week.He is a failure!!
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GDP "ONLY" SUNK 1% and this is scene as a good thing.Can you imagine?Did you happen to see the job numbers this week.He is a failure!!
Anyone who thinks the economy sinking only 1% is a good thing is truly delusional.
We still have massive problems ahead.
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Anyone who thinks the economy sinking only 1% is a good thing is truly delusional.
well it had been shrinking a lot more for the last 4 Qs.
If the trend continues, we'll soon break evne, then see growth. tell me you didn't expect it to go from huge drops to huge gains overnight?
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GDP Drop smaller than expected, only 1%.
I have to believe, if the DOW was sunk to 3500 today, people would be blaming Obama's actions. yet he doesn't receive any credit for raising the DOW almost 1000 points since Bush left office.
Take a good look at the last REVISED number. Then get ready for this one.
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Does 9% govt spending means a lot of new govt employees?
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Why is it when the economy was tanking earlier this year, everyone says it is Obama's fault and it is his responsibility.
Now, when it is getting better, they all say he had nothing to do with it.
Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
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Does 9% govt spending means a lot of new govt employees?
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Why don't they just spend a bazillion dollars? We can get out of this deep reccession tomarrow with everyone being a well paid government employee.
There's no consequence to running deficits and growing debt.
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(Reuters) - U.S. federal regulators have raised the number of struggling banks which they have essentially been put on probation, forcing them to fix their problems to avoid potential failures, the Wall Street Journal said.
Citing data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act requests, the paper said The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), along with the Federal Reserve, have issued more memorandums of understanding so far this year than in all of 2008.
At the current rate of at least 285, the Fed, OCC and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp are in line to issue nearly 600 of these secret agreements this year, the paper said, compared with last year when 399 such agreements were issued.
The memorandums -- which can force financial institutions to increase their capital, overhaul management or take other major steps -- are not bound to be made public by the banks, the Journal said.
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Reccession is over. Look, everyone is paying the tax payer back.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/30/AR2009073003937.html
Fannie, Freddie Unlikely to Return Aid
Regulator Openly Doubts Firms Can Repay All $85 Billion
The regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac said it was unlikely that the federal government would ever be paid back the entire $85 billion spent so far on bailing out the firms -- and added that the cost was going to rise as additional funds are drawn.
"Their book is so large," James Lockhart, director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said at the National Press Club. "It's hard for me to see that they will be able to repay all of that."
Lockhart's comments were a blunt acknowledgment that while the government has long said its bailout of the financial sector largely represents an investment that will be repaid, billions of dollars are likely to be lost.
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Go DOW 9200 GO!
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-default31-2009jul31,0,173542.story
California's default rate soars to 9.5%
Delinquencies in June are up sharply from a year ago, when 6% of borrowers were behind on their loans.
By Peter Y. Hong
About 1 in 10 Californians with a home loan is now in default, and there's growing evidence that the mortgage meltdown is spreading to commercial real estate.
The home mortgage delinquency rate -- the percentage of borrowers who have missed several payments and are in the first stage of foreclosure -- climbed in June to 9.5% in California and 9.9% in Los Angeles County, according to First American CoreLogic
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http://market-ticker.denninger.guy.net/archives/1276-GDP-Uuuuggghhhh.html[/b] (http://[b)
Lies, damn lies, statistics and, of course, any #'s the Govt. releases on economic matters.
And lets be honest, just like the TARP money went to the banks to make their balance sheets look decent (and suspending Mark-to-Market) the Stim. Package is being used to plug massive holes in bloated/out of control state budgets. The very budgets the were enourmous because of the massive spike Property Taxes during the bubble.
10% of it has been spent, with only 10-15% of it on the much vaunted "Shovel Ready" jobs...or "jobs".
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http://market-ticker.denninger.guy.net/archives/1276-GDP-Uuuuggghhhh.html[/b] (http://[b)
Lies, damn lies, statistics and, of course, any #'s the Govt. releases on economic matters.
And lets be honest, just like the TARP money went to the banks to make their balance sheets look decent (and suspending Mark-to-Market) the Stim. Package is being used to plug massive holes in bloated/out of control state budgets. The very budgets the were enourmous because of the massive spike Property Taxes during the bubble.
10% of it has been spent, with only 10-15% of it on the much vaunted "Shovel Ready" jobs...or "jobs".
I think karl does a great job with his blog.
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Things are bad. These GDP #'s are being pumped by CNBC and the other shit for brains as "good" and "above expectations"....what a joke.
Remember though...this "1%" decline is not just a 1% decline from a static number from the last Fiscal Quarter. Nope. It is a further 1% decline from the 1st Qtr's. revised 6.4% decline.
Take into account that this is even with a 10%+ spike in Federal spending and some increase in spending on the State and Local level. Most of it is artificial. But here is the good news......the states are tapped out and so is the consumer...wait, that's bad news, I guess I had on too much CNBC today.
All smoke and mirrors.
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Things are bad. These GDP #'s are being pumped by CNBC and the other shit for brains as "good" and "above expectations"....what a joke.
Remember though...this "1%" decline is not just a 1% decline from a static number from the last Fiscal Quarter. Nope. It is a further 1% decline from the 1st Qtr's. revised 6.4% decline.
Take into account that this is even with a 10%+ spike in Federal spending and some increase in spending on the State and Local level. Most of it is artificial. But here is the good news......the states are tapped out and so is the consumer...wait, that's bad news, I guess I had on too much CNBC today.
All smoke and mirrors.
CNBC viewing numbers are down 28%. People are starting to realize they are full of it.
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GDP Drop smaller than expected, only 1%.
I have to believe, if the DOW was sunk to 3500 today, people would be blaming Obama's actions. yet he doesn't receive any credit for raising the DOW almost 1000 points since Bush left office.
Are you that naive to think that Obama deserves credit for the DOW? How about credit for the, now revised, 6.4% in Real GDP decline for the 1st Qtr? Or how about the 1% decline from the previous 6.4% decline for this 2nd Qtr? And just wait until it gets revised, it will be probably much lower, just like all of the Bush Admin's #'s were revised...far after the Recession and implosion hit.
To much manipulation and to many Congressioanl Children playing around, throwing money around, making promises they have no chance of keeping and letting Goldman Sachs take very high positions in very important parts of Govt.
The economy is simply not going to be able to re-balance itself, the massive structural problems are not being addressed, there is another bubble being inflated and nothing is going to change.
Money is simply papering over the real problems and the Govt. is hoping that through the recent media blitz by Ben Bernahke and Co. added with the Media Pumpers, that everyone will think it's all better....until they realize that they are dead broke and have access to no credit and their dollar is worthless.
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Are you that naive to think that Obama deserves credit for the DOW? How about credit for the, now revised, 6.4% in Real GDP decline for the 1st Qtr? Or how about the 1% decline from the previous 6.4% decline for this 2nd Qtr? And just wait until it gets revised, it will be probably much lower, just like all of the Bush Admin's #'s were revised...far after the Recession and implosion hit.
To much manipulation and to many Congressioanl Children playing around, throwing money around, making promises they have no chance of keeping and letting Goldman Sachs take very high positions in very important parts of Govt.
The economy is simply not going to be able to re-balance itself, the massive structural problems are not being addressed, there is another bubble being inflated and nothing is going to change.
Money is simply papering over the real problems and the Govt. is hoping that through the recent media blitz by Ben Bernahke and Co. added with the Media Pumpers, that everyone will think it's all better....until they realize that they are dead broke and have access to no credit and their dollar is worthless.
Well said.
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Are you that naive to think that Obama deserves credit for the DOW? How about credit for the, now revised, 6.4% in Real GDP decline for the 1st Qtr? Or how about the 1% decline from the previous 6.4% decline for this 2nd Qtr? And just wait until it gets revised, it will be probably much lower, just like all of the Bush Admin's #'s were revised...far after the Recession and implosion hit.
To much manipulation and to many Congressioanl Children playing around, throwing money around, making promises they have no chance of keeping and letting Goldman Sachs take very high positions in very important parts of Govt.
The economy is simply not going to be able to re-balance itself, the massive structural problems are not being addressed, there is another bubble being inflated and nothing is going to change.
Money is simply papering over the real problems and the Govt. is hoping that through the recent media blitz by Ben Bernahke and Co. added with the Media Pumpers, that everyone will think it's all better....until they realize that they are dead broke and have access to no credit and their dollar is worthless.
Additionally, UE keeps going up as do foreclosures.
Once the Bush tax cuts expire next year, you can count on another round of layoffs as well.
The current rise in the market is not based on the economy but Federal Reserve money pumped into these firms by the govt.
Finally, there is going to be a massive correction in the fall as the market is grossly oversold.
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(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/GDP-YOY.serendipityThumb.png)
(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/GDPSeries.png)
(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/debtt0gdp1q09_7981_image001.serendipityThumb.gif)
(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/ConsumerDebtRecent.serendipityThumb.png)
(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/us-debt.serendipityThumb.png)
(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/DebtGrowth.serendipityThumb.png)
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(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/us-debt.serendipityThumb.png)
(http://www.market-ticker.org/uploads/DebtGrowth.serendipityThumb.png)
I'll start having confidence in our elected officials, when these charts begin there journey DOWN instead of UP!
GC/DEA_AGENT
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Denninger rocks.
i have to laugh at these fools eating up the Obama spin machine saying things are improving.
Obama, like George Bush, is encourging everyone to shop again with money they dont have.
Unreal.
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From Chris Martenson
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/gdp-report-just-plain-wrong/23394 (http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/gdp-report-just-plain-wrong/23394)
Anyway you slice it, the Govt is seriously massaging the all numbers.
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From Chris Martenson
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/gdp-report-just-plain-wrong/23394 (http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/gdp-report-just-plain-wrong/23394)
Anyway you slice it, the Govt is seriously massaging the all numbers.
Also, the GDP number is masked by 13% increase in govt defense spending.
The Obamabots refuse to acknowledge reality.
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Also, the GDP number is masked by 13% increase in govt defense spending.
The Obamabots refuse to acknowledge reality.
Bush II did the same thing nearing the end of his term. Him and the Admin. kept feeding us lies and distorted statistics.
Lots of "Better than expected" U.E. #'s, GDP, jobless claims etc etc all the while telling us, even when things were disintegrating, that there was no recession and the Sub-Prime mess was "contained".
Of course after he was out office we learned that all the numbers that were fed to us were revised far,far downward and we had been in a recession since December of '07. And that includes a worthless Stimulus Bill. The same thing is happening here. Shit, CNN just had on some Admin. mouthpiece pumping up the awful and distorted numbers as "good" and "positive".
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The worst is CNBC with Dennis. Karl was on the show discussing these numbers with Dennis but you're not allowed to talk facts and figures becasue that isn't exciting enough as cow noises coming from slapping some shinny red buttons ala Mad Money.
"But those are only numbers.", Dennis tells Karl, while he's trying to explain debt and real GDP.
Did I just hear that right? Fuck me. Only numbers folks, they don't matter. Only the numbers on the S&P matter. ::)