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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on August 04, 2009, 08:37:07 AM
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White House Isn't Concerned by Health-Care Protests
Wall Street Journal ^
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:29:59 AM by Sub-Driver
White House Isn't Concerned by Health-Care Protests
By HENRY J. PULIZZI
WASHINGTON -- The White House isn't concerned that increasingly vocal protests around the country are frustrating its push for health-care legislation.
Briefing reporters Tuesday, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs suggested that the opposition is being organized by a small group seeking to create "manufactured anger."
"I hope people will take a jaundiced eye to what is clearly the AstroTurf nature of so-called grass-roots lobbying," Mr. Gibbs said.
In recent days, administration officials and Democratic members of Congress have been shouted down by angry protesters at town halls in Pennsylvania and Texas, an uproar that could grow when lawmakers return to their districts for the August recess.
Mr. Gibbs compared the protesters with the "Brooks Brothers Brigade" that he said appeared in Florida after the 2000 presidential election.
"I seem to see some commonality in who pops up at some of these things," he said, without elaborating. "You can see quite a bit of similarity between who shows up where."
While protests intensify, the White House also has stepped up its response. It reacted early Tuesday to one online video featuring clips of President Barack Obama appearing to suggest that his health-care plans would eventually replace the private insurance sector, producing its own video shooting down the claim. In the White House's video, its main health-care spokesperson, Linda Douglass, accuses opponents of taking old footage and using it out of context as a scare tactic.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
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This disgusting, marxist, vile, arrogant, incompetent, communist, awful, failing, racist, elitist, hollow, empty, inexperienced, fascistic, tyranical, gang of criminals and thugs in the WH needs to be shown a massive defeat in 2010 and 2012.
What a POS this entire admn is.
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Wow,a democrst complaining that its an organised effort.The left certainly never does that.Groups like ACORN,PITA,CODE PINK etc are just a bunch of concerned citiczens with no agenda or organised movement behind the.They are grass roots.What a jerkoff Gibbs is.
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its amazing how out of touch with reality this administration is...
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you mean those fake protesters that are bussed in from out of town and given specific instruction on how to disrupt town hall meetings?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32277121
ps: don't watch the video. It will only creative cognitive dissonance with your preconceived view of reality
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you mean those fake protesters that are bussed in from out of town and given specific instruction on how to disrupt town hall meetings?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32277121
ps: don't watch the video. It will only creative cognitive dissonance with your preconceived view of reality
Straw, you are probably the biggest fool on this thread if you believe that. Did you see my thread on the protesters in Long Island?
That Vet was a plant? The 55y/o on cap & trade was a plant?
Face it - your marxist messiah is a failure and sowing the seeds of his own demise only 6 months into this trainwreck.
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Straw, you are probably the biggest fool on this thread if you believe that. Did you see my thread on the protesters in Long Island?
That Vet was a plant? The 55y/o on cap & trade was a plant?
Face it - your marxist messiah is a failure and sowing the seeds of his own demise only 6 months into this trainwreck.
I rarely look at your moronic threads so I probably didn't see it. I'd have to look at it first to see if the person you speak of was just another ginned up wack job like yourself.
yeah - I know Obama is a socialist, marxist etc... his secret (not so secret plan) is to wipe out all private businesses and create a socialist distopia
I get it
thank god you're hear to warn us all and save the human race from Obama
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LOL Straw's maxi pad is about to burst. Only out of touch lunatics question Obama. Only christians and slaves dont ask questions of those other than Obama. Got it! ::)
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I rarely look at your moronic threads so I probably didn't see it. I'd have to look at it first to see if the person you speak of was just another ginned up wack job like yourself.
yeah - I know Obama is a socialist, marxist etc... his secret (not so secret plan) is to wipe out all private businesses and create a socialist distopia
I get it
thank god you're hear to warn us all and save the human race from Obama
So a veteran of WW2 telling a congressman that the VA is a failure is a wack job???
Tell me which one in this audience is a "plant"????
Do me a favor - GFY and dont respond to me.
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LOL Straw's maxi pad is about to burst. Only out of touch lunatics question Obama. Only christians and slaves dont ask questions of those other than Obama. Got it! ::)
Straw is a joke. It could be a blizzard outside and if Obama told him it was a heat wave he would come on here and tell us how hot it is outside.
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Speaking of cake...
Today Obama brings cupcakes to 89-year old White house press corps reporter Helen Thompson on her birthday
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How arrogent and insulting of the white house not to recognize these protests. It goes back to the "trust big govenment, we know whats best for you" attitude of this administration.
Straw, many people are upset. A (slight) majority of Americans still disagree with this plan so far.
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Wow,a democrst complaining that its an organised effort.The left certainly never does that.Groups like ACORN,PITA,CODE PINK etc are just a bunch of concerned citiczens with no agenda or organised movement behind the.They are grass roots.What a jerkoff Gibbs is.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/laughing_at_u.gif)
PITA?! PITA?!
Pita is a type of bread you idiot! Albeit a type of Middle Eastern flatbread,
...what are are you afraid of billy, ...an attack of the killer falafels?! ::)
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Kind of like when Bruno said Humous when talking about Hamas. That movie was completely out of hand...hillarious but disgusting.
The white house knows that people are watching this closely...they shouldn't insult legit protestors, I think it will cause the approval of this plan to drop. I want to see some kind of healthcare reform but not full nationalized care, not until there is a reasonable plan to cover costs and not something that doesn't include malpractice reform and judicial screening to lessen frivelous lawsuits.
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Jag, you are the last one who should be making light of someones typos- Your nonsensical distribe about Fox News when I challenged you on Canada not having freedom of speech comes to mind-- so does your brilliant post about Canada kicking America's ass during the war of 1812 when Canada did not exist. There are plenty of others, so please, calm down.
Billy's point remains valid and, to be sure, the people protesting health care are not fake. Anyone with a loved one or relative that is 60 years old+ can attest to the fact that people, real people, are fucking petrified of this so called health care reform Obama is trying to forcefeed down Americas throat.
Eventually all the left wing nut jobs, empty suits in Congress who are the puppets of the lefts special interest groups and the special interest groups themselves are not going to be able to drown out the rest of the country-- the vast silent majority that has allowed this administration to go on an ideological free for all based on a distaste for all things Bush. Even with most of the media in its pocket, the leftist spin machine wont be able to whitewash the entire country's opinion and fool the masses into not only believing the Obama plan is good and will work, but that the majority of Americans support it.
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Do some of u idiots honestly think all the people protesting this shit are all angry Republicans. Alot of these people are indy's or even dems. U libs really think that Obama was some kind of left wing mandate don't u?
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Do some of u idiots honestly think all the people protesting this shit are all angry Republicans. Alot of these people are indy's or even dems. U libs really think that Obama was some kind of left wing mandate don't u?
Hey hh6 - I go a 22. conversion kit for my AR today.
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They will tell themselves whatever they need to in order to feel better.
I actually listen to NPR from time to time, and today they were talking about Health Care Reform. A called actually was saying that all of these people were Libertarians and Republicans bussed in from wherever and thrown in these meetings to "shout down" the Congressmen. Of course "Brown Shirts" was thrown around by "NOR-MAN GOLD-MAN" and all of that, but of course, no facts, no mentions of the costs, the CBO estimates, the "Can't waste a crisis" mentality. It was all about "WE NEED THIS", "THIS IS ABOUT VALUES AND MORALS!"
I didn't hear one technical word or number, no dissection about what would actually happen if this very bill was passed.
I'm sure if anyone called, or bother to call, into the show and disagree and "dissent" with NORMAN, he would be treated with respect and kindness....oh brother. ::)
It just strikes me that whenever legitimate concerns are raised, and they have been, the old Liberal "IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD INSIDE!" is dusted off and beaten like a dead horse again.
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They will tell themselves whatever they need to in order to feel better.
I actually listen to NPR from time to time, and today they were talking about Health Care Reform. A called actually was saying that all of these people were Libertarians and Republicans bussed in from wherever and thrown in these meetings to "shout down" the Congressmen. Of course "Brown Shirts" was thrown around by "NOR-MAN GOLD-MAN" and all of that, but of course, no facts, no mentions of the costs, the CBO estimates, the "Can't waste a crisis" mentality. It was all about "WE NEED THIS", "THIS IS ABOUT VALUES AND MORALS!"
I didn't hear one technical word or number, no dissection about what would actually happen if this very bill was passed.
I'm sure if anyone called, or bother to call, into the show and disagree and "dissent" with NORMAN, he would be treated with respect and kindness....oh brother. ::)
It just strikes me that whenever legitimate concerns are raised, and they have been, the old Liberal "IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD INSIDE!" is dusted off and beaten like a dead horse again.
Isnt that the liberal default position?
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Nope..not concerned at all....he is such a piece of shit. (Ace of Spades)
Opponents of health insurance reform may find the truth a little inconvenient, but as our second president famously said, "facts are stubborn things."
Scary chain emails and videos are starting to percolate on the internet, breathlessly claiming, for example, to "uncover" the truth about the President’s health insurance reform positions.
...Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
Now keep in mind, a lot of what people will term 'lies' are merely policy difference. Either way, Obama and his apparatchiks want to know about it. Personally, I'll be sending in that Linda Douglas video from below since she's lying about what Obama actually said.
Given this President's unseemly propencity for going after individual citizens (Limbaugh* and Crowley come to mind) not to mention the media's willingness to vet the hell out anyone who actual dares to question Obama (hello Joe the Plumber) this is more than a little creepy. It's also excellent fodder for the "imagine if Republicans had done this" file.
Thanks to several commenters for pointing it out. Sorry, I don't remember where I saw it first.
*Yeah, Limbaugh can fight back but I don't recall George Bush going after Olbermann or Mathews by name.
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Hey hh6 - I go a 22. conversion kit for my AR today.
Cool...I wish u were close to Bliss...Id take u on our Rod and Gun club range, we have a combat course. Both ur .22's would be super accurate against the pie plate targets.
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Cool...I wish u were close to Bliss...Id take u on our Rod and Gun club range, we have a combat course. Both ur .22's would be super accurate against the pie plate targets.
Ha ha. Where I live we have one long range public range at 100 yards. They only allow one round at time! It totally sucks.
I go to a small outdoor range that is about 25 yards but I can do whatever I want.
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Apparently you libertarians will believe anything if it supports your prejudice...I mean philosophy.
Rocking the Town Halls - Best Practices
A Political Action Memo
We here in Fairfield County Connecticut conducted an action at Congressman Jim Hime's Town Hall meeting in May 2009. We believe there are some best practices which emberged from the event and our experience, which could be useful to activists in just about any district where their Congressperson has supported the socialist agenda of the Democrat leadership in Washington.
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-- Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”
-- Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early.”
-- Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7336
I think this should be stickied:
Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate
It's exactly how the libertarians on this board debate and it comes from the horse's mouth.
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Apparently you libertarians will believe anything if it supports your prejudice...I mean philosophy.
Rocking the Town Halls - Best Practices
A Political Action Memo
We here in Fairfield County Connecticut conducted an action at Congressman Jim Hime's Town Hall meeting in May 2009. We believe there are some best practices which emberged from the event and our experience, which could be useful to activists in just about any district where their Congressperson has supported the socialist agenda of the Democrat leadership in Washington.
...
-- Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”
-- Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early.”
-- Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7336
I think this should be stickied:
Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate
It's exactly how the libertarians on this board debate and it comes from the horse's mouth.
I guess Rules for Radicals is backfiring on Obama.
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I guess Rules for Radicals is backfiring on Obama.
What are you talking about?
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And we wonder why the assholes in Washington get away with what they do. As soon as there is any dissension to their "we know whats best for you" ideals, that group must be marginalized. They can't really be upset about what we are trying to do "We know best", that is manufactured anger you know astroturfing ( and who is the master of this? David Axelrod, I'm sure you know the name).
This in itself should show you that the government doesn't give a fuck what the average American thinks or wants. So keep fighting amongst yourselves over trivial bullshit while the government robs you and the next 3 generations of you family blind.
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I guess Rules for Radicals is backfiring on Obama.
would you care to tell me what happened to left leaning protesters that came to political events during the Bush years with the objective of "Be Disruptive Early And Often?" Don't tell me you don't know, I can show you video after video of them being taken out and sometimes arrested but certainly not allowed to stay. Now imagine that happening to some of these guys doing that! hahahaha, you all would be screaming about your first amendment rights. But what did righties say about lefties when they got hauled off? Pretty much fuck them. I'm sure you don't see anything wrong with this picture
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I support protests on healthcare and am dissapointed by the administration's actions but I am not in favor of using the old 'community organizer's' way of disrupting and getting in people's faces.
We need an honest debate. I think many people are pissed at this administration's "we know best attitude and if you disagree, you shouldn't be heard". That is very disturbing...even more than the protestors IMO.
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Sorry to repeat my point, but please ask yourselves why malpractice issues, judicial pre-screenings and tort reform were left completely out of this bill. Medical practitioners have suggested these things for several years. These items will reduce healthcare costs and are easy to implement in the current (or new) system. Leading congressional democrats (and Obama) are in the pockets of trial lawyers. That is scary.
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Sorry to repeat my point, but please ask yourselves why malpractice issues, judicial pre-screenings and tort reform was left completely out of this bill. These items will reduce healthcare costs and are easy to implement in the current (or new) system. Leading congressional democrats (and Obama) are in the pockets of trial lawyers. That is scary.
B/c Tort reform is a non-issue. It's costs are negligible.
It's a red herring set up by the Right so that the public can point to a singular reason/bogey man as the source of their health care woes.
Tort reform is complete hogwash. Not even a little relevant.
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B/c Tort reform is a non-issue. It's costs are negligible.
It's a red herring set up by the Right so that the public can point to a singular reason/bogey man as the source of their health care woes.
Tort reform is complete hogwash. Not even a little relevant.
No its not. Most docs admit that they perform defensive medicine and order battoeries of tests as CYA to avoid lawsuits.
Additionally, med mal premiuims are huge for many docs which force them out of the profression and to concentrate in only the most lucrative of areas.
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Almost all medical societies would disagree with you Decker. Defensive medicine practices are real and are costly. Jury rewards are often very large and settlements happen all the time (much more prevalent than jury rewards). Please also address judicial pre-screening, I have yet to hear a good argument against this practice. I think only a trial lawyer would be against these things.
Most medical malpractice cases never go to trial, large settlements are agreed upon by insurance companies, hospitals and medical groups. Insurance companies know this and drive up malpractice costs for the practitioner to cover these. If a practitioner has any malpractice case on their record (win, loose or settled), it is on your record permanently and your malpractice costs go up. Completely unfair. You should understand this.
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Almost all medical societies would disagree with you Decker. Defensive medicine practices are real and are costly. Jury rewards are often very large and settlements happen all the time (much more prevalent than jury rewards). Please also address judicial pre-screening, I have yet to hear a good argument against this practice. I think only a trial lawyer would be against these things.
Most medical malpractice cases never go to trial, large settlements are agreed upon by insurance companies, hospitals and medical groups. Insurance companies know this and drive up malpractice costs for the practitioner to cover these. If a practitioner has any malpractice case on their record (win, loose or settled), it is on your record permanently and your malpractice costs go up. Completely unfair. You should understand this.
Decker probably also believes that adding 45 million new patients to the system without med mal reform will not result in a huge flood of new cases being filed either and premiuims going up for Docs.
The stupidity in liberal la la land knows no bounds.
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No its not. Most docs admit that they perform defensive medicine and order battoeries of tests as CYA to avoid lawsuits.
Additionally, med mal premiuims are huge for many docs which force them out of the profression and to concentrate in only the most lucrative of areas.
Gee, doctors admitting that they are practicing medicine just above the negligence line is somehow the fault of the threat of legal retribution?
Great, says I.
I'm sick of lazy-ass doctors cutting off the wrong goddam leg or prescribing the wrong medicine or generally doing a less than adequate job.
You should be grateful.
Doctoring is a serious life and death business. They'd better carry premium malpractice insurance.
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Almost all medical societies would disagree with you Decker. Defensive medicine practices are real and are costly. Jury rewards are often very large and settlements happen all the time (much more prevalent than jury rewards). Please also address judicial pre-screening, I have yet to hear a good argument against this practice. I think only a trial lawyer would be against these things.
Most medical malpractice cases never go to trial, large settlements are agreed upon by insurance companies, hospitals and medical groups. Insurance companies know this and drive up malpractice costs for the practitioner to cover these. If a practitioner has any malpractice case on their record (win, loose or settled), it is on your record permanently and your malpractice costs go up. Completely unfair. You should understand this.
You are correct about malpractice cases. There was a comprehensive study done by Harvard showing:
The Harvard researchers took a huge sample of 31,000 medical records, dating from the mid-1980s, and had them evaluated by practicing doctors and nurses, the professionals most likely to be sympathetic to the demands of the doctor's office and operating room. The records went through multiple rounds of evaluation, and a finding of negligence was made only if two doctors, working independently, separately reached that conclusion. Even with this conservative methodology, the study found that doctors were injuring one out of every 25 patients—and that only 4 percent of these injured patients sued. http://www.slate.com/id/2145400/
That doesn't seem to be a pressing problem, does it?
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Decker probably also believes that adding 45 million new patients to the system without med mal reform will not result in a huge flood of new cases being filed either and premiuims going up for Docs.
The stupidity in liberal la la land knows no bounds.
Do you know what a frivolous lawsuit is?
Do you know the procedural mechanism in place for dealing with frivolous lawsuits?
Do you believe that we should relax the standards for negligence by doctors b/c gosh darn it, medical malpractice is just too expensive?
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Do you know what a frivolous lawsuit is?
Do you know the procedural mechanism in place for dealing with frivolous lawsuits?
Do you believe that we should relax the standards for negligence by doctors b/c gosh darn it, medical malpractice is just too expensive?
Decker, dont patronize me, I have a JD and know the system far better than you do.
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Decker, dont patronize me, I have a JD and know the system far better than you do.
Then you must know about frivolous lawsuits...the motion for directed verdict...the sanctions and penalties. So it's fairly certain that malpractice cases generally have merit.
Or are you complaining that negligent doctors should get a lighter ride for cutting of the wrong goddam leg or botching you child's surgery killing him/her?
I want to see where your heart is at?
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Then you must know about frivolous lawsuits...the motion for directed verdict...the sanctions and penalties. So it's fairly certain that malpractice cases generally have merit.
Or are you complaining that negligent doctors should get a lighter ride for cutting of the wrong goddam leg or botching you child's surgery killing him/her?
I want to see where your heart is at?
Absolutely not, I believe there should be special med mal courts like there are for no-fault claims in NYC concerning medical bills.
I think the cases should go to non-binding mediation before a panel before they can file in court. A person can get an idea of what they can expect and then decide to go to court or not before tying up the system ,experts, witnesses, etc.
No one should ever be denied their right to sue, but I believe there should be a process to resolve these cases prior to formal litigation being initiated.
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Absolutely not, I believe there should be special med mal courts like there are for no-fault claims in NYC concerning medical bills.
I think the cases should go to non-binding mediation before a panel before they can file in court. A person can get an idea of what they can expect and then decide to go to court or not before tying up the system ,experts, witnesses, etc.
No one should ever be denied their right to sue, but I believe there should be a process to resolve these cases prior to formal litigation being initiated.
So you want to create another level of bureaucracy to handle medical malpractice claims?
The core claims for Tort Reform are:
1. There are too many frivolous malpractice suits
2. Damages are out of control.
1+2 = the demise of our healthcare system.
That's just untrue.
Look at the Harvard study I referenced showing that over some 20+ year period, only 4% of malpractice victims sued.
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So you want to create another level of bureaucracy to handle medical malpractice claims?
The core claims for Tort Reform are:
1. There are too many frivolous malpractice suits
2. Damages are out of control.
1+2 = the demise of our healthcare system.
That's just untrue.
Look at the Harvard study I referenced showing that over some 20+ year period, only 4% of malpractice victims sued.
I also dont believe in casino verdicts.
Why should one injured patient get 100k for a screw up and the other get 1 million for the same thing?
I know about the verdicts sheets etc, but it seems to me that there is little consistency in verdicts, settlements, etc.
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4% of malpractice victims sued- How many settled out of court, how many never had to file a complaint and for how many hundreds of millions of dollars do you think these cases went away?
How many others had incompatent attorneys that either missed the statute of limitations or that applied the wrong toll, or thought they had a foreign object action when it was plain old med mal?
and FYI how many products liability cases do you want to throw into this mix? Pharmaceudical companies sued for medicines with side effects, equipment malfunctioning, and on and on.
When you factor in treble damages, pain and suffering, plaintiff friendly jurisdictions, jury verdicts and attorneys fees, you have enough money to build a pyramid out of thousand dollar bills. And who ends up paying for that shit in the end? We do.
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I also dont believe in casino verdicts.
Why should one injured patient get 100k for a screw up and the other get 1 million for the same thing?
I know about the verdicts sheets etc, but it seems to me that there is little consistency in verdicts, settlements, etc.
You know it depends on the facts of the case, the law and the judge (sometimes). I would think that any fidelity to stare decisis would also apply to damages. It depends.
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You know it depends on the facts of the case, the law and the judge (sometimes). I would think that any fidelity to stare decisis would also apply to damages. It depends.
I understand that, but to me, compensation for a certain injury by med mal should not depend on the luck of jury selection, venue, etc.
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4% of malpractice victims sued- How many settled out of court, how many never had to file a complaint and for how many hundreds of millions of dollars do you think these cases went away?
How many of those cases that were settled were b/c some drunk or high doctor killed his patient? I think the study does address the settlement number.
How many others had incompatent attorneys that either missed the statute of limitations or that applied the wrong toll, or thought they had a foreign object action when it was plain old med mal?
I don't know. We are talking about medical malpractice lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) as the basis for the deterioration of our healthcare system.
and FYI how many products liability cases do you want to throw into this mix? Pharmaceudical companies sued for medicines with side effects, equipment malfunctioning, and on and on.
Why should I be upset with a Pharmacuetical company sued for distributing a dangerous medicine?
When you factor in treble damages, pain and suffering, plaintiff friendly jurisdictions, jury verdicts and attorneys fees, you have enough money to build a pyramid out of thousand dollar bills. And who ends up paying for that shit in the end? We do.
The median cost of medical malpractice cases is $139,000. With that #, your pyramid would fit a key chain. The number of million dollar awards is less than one half of one percent of all annual awards.
44,000 to 98,000 people die from medical malpractice each year.
Here's a pretty good compendium on the issue of medical malpractice.
http://www.citizen.org/documents/NPDB%20Report_Final.pdf