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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on August 11, 2009, 06:11:00 AM
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My guess is that 2 things happen.
1) FOXnews and the insurance companies rally a whole lot of loud, ignorant screamers to yell over obama.
2) Obama stays cool and just reads his stump speech.
Wednesday news AM, Obama looks under control and the media shows the 4 screaming idiots over and over. Obama gains from this. Surely his team has calculated every angle, and they don't need to do a town hall. I think they'll make gains from this, or they wouldn't be doing it.
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My guess is that 2 things happen.
1) FOXnews and the insurance companies rally a whole lot of loud, ignorant screamers to yell over obama.
2) Obama stays cool and just reads his stump speech.
Wednesday news AM, Obama looks under control and the media shows the 4 screaming idiots over and over. Obama gains from this. Surely his team has calculated every angle, and they don't need to do a town hall. I think they'll make gains from this, or they wouldn't be doing it.
No one will disrupt it.However,one thing for sure EVERYTHING he says will be a bundle of lies.He will say you can keep your existing insurance-a lie.He will say there is no death panel-a lie.He will say abortions arent paid for-a lie.He will lie ,as he always does,and the scum bag media like that half wit Olbermann and idiot Mathews will say "it was the greatest thing Ive ever heard.The man is god".
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They'll let him talk because they don't want the larger public seeing their tactics. If they started yelling and not letting Obama talk, I think the public would turn against them in pretty big numbers. So I think they should dig into the republican bag of tricks and plant a bunch of people to act like they've been acting at these town hall meetings. hahaha...
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No one will disrupt it.
both sides (FOX and MSNBC) are reporting it's open to anyone, not DNC operatives. There are also massive protests outside for those who can't get in. It's raining there now, which may dampen some spirits.
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Obama will dispel the lies and myths of the Death Panels, no retard care and the other outrageous fictitious machinations that have been manufactured.
It will be interesting to see it done and it will embarrass those who really believed them to be true.
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wow, would a Bush town hall have been open to all?
I would like to know what you guys on the right would think of Obama if he had everyone sign loyalty oaths and or be matched against a blacklist to get in?
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Obama will dispel the lies and myths of the Death Panels, no retard care and the other outrageous fictitious machinations that have been manufactured.
It will be interesting to see it done and it will embarrass those who really believed them to be true.
TA - did you already forget my post about Emaunels' brother and his quotes?
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TA - did you already forget my post about Emaunels' brother and his quotes?
what do you think of Obama making this open to everyone?
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TA - did you already forget my post about Emaunels' brother and his quotes?
I think you are interpreting things the wrong way. While I do not like any plan offered so far as it is not Single Payer, which is true Universal Healthcare, it is outright egregious to pretend that there are death panels and the denial to retards or what have you.
All Obama`s plan is, you keep the shitty insurance companies at the table as they currently are. He adds an optional public option that you can choose and that you do have to pay for if you choose it.
Nothing changes other than costs may go down a bit to compete with the public option. The Private Plans are going nowhere. Don`t you worry. They will still be teh suck that they are now. This is the type of healthcare that you will like as nothing really changes.
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Obama will dispel the lies and myths of the Death Panels, no retard care and the other outrageous fictitious machinations that have been manufactured.
It will be interesting to see it done and it will embarrass those who really believed them to be true.
The death panel is true.You are FORCED to get end of life councling every 5 years.The dems lie and say its not mandatory but the bill says it is mandatory.THATS a death panel.You cant keep your insurance.It does pay for abortions and doctor assisted suicides.He will lie and say "this isnt true" just like he says "I never heard any of that in Wrights church" the man is a born liar!
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what do you think of Obama making this open to everyone?
I think its disgusting and outrageous. Illegal aliens need to go home, not be afforded more taxpayer funded benes.
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The death panel is true.You are FORCED to get end of life councling every 5 years.The dems lie and say its not mandatory but the bill says it is mandatory.THATS a death panel.You cant keep your insurance.It does pay for abortions and doctor assisted suicides.He will lie and say "this isnt true" just like he says "I never heard any of that in Wrights church" the man is a born liar!
In case you haven`t realized, the Insurance companies are basically writing the healthcare plan and are all at the table. You get to keep your plan, nothing changes. You will just get to choose a Public option if you want it and you will have to pay for that too if you want it.
There is no death panel in the public option or private. I am not sure what private insurance you have so I cannot speak what is in that particular policy, but you probably are not covered in end of life decisions or prolonged experimental procedures while on life support. Obama wants to change this for Private Insurance as well as the Public option.
At least on the public option, these things will be covered. That is all that is stated in regards to End of Life. Hopefully this will apply to Private plans as well as you do not want to be denied these services.
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In case you haven`t realized, the Insurance companies are basically writing the healthcare plan and are all at the table. You get to keep your plan, nothing changes. You will just get to choose a Public option if you want it and you will have to pay for that too if you want it.
There is no death panel in the public option or private. I am not sure what private insurance you have so I cannot speak what is in that particular policy, but you probably are not covered in end of life decisions or prolonged experimental procedures while on life support. Obama wants to change this for Private Insurance as well as the Public option.
At least on the public option, these things will be covered. That is all that is stated in regards to End of Life. Hopefully this will apply to Private plans as well as you do not want to be denied these services.
The bill CLEARLY states,if you leave your job,you can not keep your insurance.You are FORCED to go to the government option.Thats is not keeping your insurance.
Now,here is a simple question.Please name ONE government agency that is run well.
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Also, Obama wants Hospice care to be covered with no denial by the Private and Public options. This is a good thing as this service is denied a lot of the times at the costs of thousands, even into the hundreds of thousands. Sometimes patients can live in Hospice care for a few years even and it not be covered. You don`t want this to be denied, especially when you or a loved one is basically in Hospice waiting to die.
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In case you haven`t realized, the Insurance companies are basically writing the healthcare plan and are all at the table. You get to keep your plan, nothing changes. You will just get to choose a Public option if you want it and you will have to pay for that too if you want it.
There is no death panel in the public option or private. I am not sure what private insurance you have so I cannot speak what is in that particular policy, but you probably are not covered in end of life decisions or prolonged experimental procedures while on life support. Obama wants to change this for Private Insurance as well as the Public option.
At least on the public option, these things will be covered. That is all that is stated in regards to End of Life. Hopefully this will apply to Private plans as well as you do not want to be denied these services.
Have you even read the bill? Yeah you get to keep your existing insurance, but after the bill is passed the insurance companies cannot write a policy after that date. So if your company decides it wants to change you are fucked, if you leave your job for another your fucked. Page 16 of the House bill read it, know it , live it.
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Also, Obama wants Hospice care to be covered with no denial by the Private and Public options. This is a good thing as this service is denied a lot of the times at the costs of thousands, even into the hundreds of thousands. Sometimes patients can live in Hospice care for a few years even and it not be covered. You don`t want this to be denied, especially when you or a loved one is basically in Hospice waiting to die.
I dont want some government jerkoff giving me or ANYONE in my family councling ever!!!Once again,please show me one program the government runs well to give you a reason to think they can run a public option.
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The bill CLEARLY states,if you leave your job,you can not keep your insurance.You are FORCED to go to the government option.Thats is not keeping your insurance.
Now,here is a simple question.Please name ONE government agency that is run well.
No. Current HIPPA laws state that you are to be given COBRA coverage for a period after your termination of employment with the option to contact your current Insurance provider to extend coverage on a similar plan with the Insurance Provider. Chances are you will not be able to afford this as this was part of an employee pool, or it will not be offered to you by your Insurance company as the plan your employer had you on only extended to those directly involved in whatever job you worked with. They will then offer you plans outside of your employment when COBRA ends. Or you can just keep on extending COBRA at quite a cost, which is way more than the Private plan may cost.
No where do you have to default to a Public plan if you lose your job, nor is it stated anywhere. Hope this helps.
Oh and the military is run very well and that is a government organization. The NIH and NASA are run very well also as is the CDC, FDA and USDA.
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No. Current HIPPA laws state that you are to be given COBRA coverage for a period after your termination of employment with the option to contact your current Insurance provider to extend coverage on a similar plan with the Insurance Provider. Chances are you will not be able to afford this as this was part of an employee pool, or it will not be offered to you by your Insurance company as the plan your employer had you on only extended to those directly involved in whatever job you worked with. They will then offer you plans outside of your employment when COBRA ends. Or you can just keep on extending COBRA at quite a cost, which is way more than the Private plan may cost.
No where do you have to default to a Public plan if you lose your job, nor is it stated anywhere. Hope this helps.
Oh and the military is run very well and that is a government organization. The NIH and NASA are run very well also as is the CDC, FDA and USDA.
Read Page 16 of the bill you dunce.
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I think its disgusting and outrageous. Illegal aliens need to go home, not be afforded more taxpayer funded benes.
you moron, the town hall open to everyone, what do you think of that? Come on, tell the truth, you never had a problem when Bush had people signing loyatly oaths to get in...
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I dont want some government jerkoff giving me or ANYONE in my family councling ever!!!Once again,please show me one program the government runs well to give you a reason to think they can run a public option.
Wherever you are covered and IF you are covered in Hospice care, or whatever hospital you are admitted to will help talk about DNR and Hospice Care. Nobody in the government is telling your nor will they council you on anything. This is between you and your physician or primary care provider.
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you moron, the town hall open to everyone, what do you think of that? Come on, tell the truth, you never had a problem when Bush had people signing loyatly oaths to get in...
I thought you were referring to the public plan.
Anyway, it is good that it is open to anyone.
I dont agree with any loyalty oaths other than to the constitution of the USA.
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Have you even read the bill? Yeah you get to keep your existing insurance, but after the bill is passed the insurance companies cannot write a policy after that date. So if your company decides it wants to change you are fucked, if you leave your job for another your fucked. Page 16 of the House bill read it, know it , live it.
Thats totally not true. Insurance Companies will write and re-write plans as they see fit based on HIPPA laws and consumer driven standards as well as to meet the needs of employee pooled businesses and corporations. Insurance Companies reserve the right to change the reimbursement rate as well as coverage options all the time. Most plans change yearly and if you are employed by a corporation or small business, you are required to pick usually from about 3 different plans offered per company. Some less, rarely more.
There is nothing in the current bill that prohibits Insurance Companies from writing and re-writing policies to reflect market and consumer needs.
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Thats totally not true. Insurance Companies will write and re-write plans as they see fit based on HIPPA laws and consumer driven standards as well as to meet the needs of employee pooled businesses and corporations. Insurance Companies reserve the right to change the reimbursement rate as well as coverage options all the time. Most plans change yearly and if you are employed by a corporation or small business, you are required to pick usually from about 3 different plans offered per company. Some less, rarely more.
There is nothing in the current bill that prohibits Insurance Companies from writing and re-writing policies to reflect market and consumer needs.
TA GETS OWNED AGAIN:
________________________ ________________________ ___________
It's Not An Option
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IBD Exclusive Series: Government-Run Healthcare: A Prescription For Failure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.
It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.
From the beginning, opponents of the public option plan have warned that if the government gets into the business of offering subsidized health insurance coverage, the private insurance market will wither. Drawn by a public option that will be 30% to 40% cheaper than their current premiums because taxpayers will be funding it, employers will gladly scrap their private plans and go with Washington's coverage.
The nonpartisan Lewin Group estimated in April that 120 million or more Americans could lose their group coverage at work and end up in such a program. That would leave private carriers with 50 million or fewer customers. This could cause the market to, as Lewin Vice President John Sheils put it, "fizzle out altogether."
What wasn't known until now is that the bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not letting any new policies be written after the public option becomes law.
The legislation is also likely to finish off health savings accounts, a goal that Democrats have had for years. They want to crush that alternative because nothing gives individuals more control over their medical care, and the government less, than HSAs.
With HSAs out of the way, a key obstacle to the left's expansion of the welfare state will be removed.
The public option won't be an option for many, but rather a mandate for buying government care. A free people should be outraged at this advance of soft tyranny.
Washington does not have the constitutional or moral authority to outlaw private markets in which parties voluntarily participate. It shouldn't be killing business opportunities, or limiting choices, or legislating major changes in Americans' lives.
It took just 16 pages of reading to find this naked attempt by the political powers to increase their reach. It's scary to think how many more breaches of liberty we'll come across in the final 1,002.
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I thought you were referring to the public plan.
Anyway, it is good that it is open to anyone.
I dont agree with any loyalty oaths other than to the constitution of the USA.
so of course you voice your distain for this when Bush did it?
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so of course you voice your distain for this when Bush did it?
I remember having many many other issues with Bush that were far worse.
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Read Page 16 of the bill you dunce.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf
Uh, Page 16 deals with effective date enrollments as they currently are and have been for years. What this means is when you renew your plan, your coverage date starts anew with each calendar Year or effective enrollment date of employment, if it is employee based coverage.
What is also states that as long as your employer or insurer offerer keeps you on the same plan and does not enroll you in a new plan if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of the new calendar year, you will keep whatever plan you had before. This is standard fare and is how the Employee based coverage has operated for years. Nothing new here at all.
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TA GETS OWNED AGAIN:
________________________ ________________________ ___________
It's Not An Option
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IBD Exclusive Series: Government-Run Healthcare: A Prescription For Failure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.
It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.
From the beginning, opponents of the public option plan have warned that if the government gets into the business of offering subsidized health insurance coverage, the private insurance market will wither. Drawn by a public option that will be 30% to 40% cheaper than their current premiums because taxpayers will be funding it, employers will gladly scrap their private plans and go with Washington's coverage.
The nonpartisan Lewin Group estimated in April that 120 million or more Americans could lose their group coverage at work and end up in such a program. That would leave private carriers with 50 million or fewer customers. This could cause the market to, as Lewin Vice President John Sheils put it, "fizzle out altogether."
What wasn't known until now is that the bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not letting any new policies be written after the public option becomes law.
The legislation is also likely to finish off health savings accounts, a goal that Democrats have had for years. They want to crush that alternative because nothing gives individuals more control over their medical care, and the government less, than HSAs.
With HSAs out of the way, a key obstacle to the left's expansion of the welfare state will be removed.
The public option won't be an option for many, but rather a mandate for buying government care. A free people should be outraged at this advance of soft tyranny.
Washington does not have the constitutional or moral authority to outlaw private markets in which parties voluntarily participate. It shouldn't be killing business opportunities, or limiting choices, or legislating major changes in Americans' lives.
It took just 16 pages of reading to find this naked attempt by the political powers to increase their reach. It's scary to think how many more breaches of liberty we'll come across in the final 1,002.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf
Uh, Page 16 deals with effective date enrollments as they currently are and have been for years. What this means is when you renew your plan, your coverage date starts anew with each calendar Year or effective enrollment date of employment, if it is employee based coverage.
What is also states that as long as your employer or insurer offerer keeps you on the same plan and does not enroll you in a new plan if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of the new calendar year, you will keep whatever plan you had before. This is standard fare and is how the Employee based coverage has operated for years. Nothing new here at all.
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I worked for a year for United Healthcare and this is standard fare regarding effective date enrollment. This is nothing new at all.
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I remember having many many other issues with Bush that were far worse.
links to some of your posts?
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333, I'm betting that you didn't turn against Bush until other republicans started to after the 06 elections. Can you show otherwise?
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links to some of your posts?
I dont remember my signup date, but I have listed them many times.
Illegal immigration, CFR, prescription drugs, dubai ports, spending, harriet meirs, etc.
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I do feel for the laymen who are not versed with any of this language as it appears on their policy. I had a direct conflict with how the language was being crafted and I believed it to be totally inaccessible or coherent to the average person who NEEDS to understand the ramifications of his or her private plan and its limits. I felt so bad that people were getting shafted around. People would literally cry and break down in tears when I had to tell them they owed 200,000 dollars because we determined that their operation or treatment would no longer or not be covered because of enrollment policies.
Nothing is changing regarding enrollment or early enrollment. This is staying the same. Too bad.
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I dont remember my signup date, but I have listed them many times.
Illegal immigration, CFR, prescription drugs, dubai ports, spending, harriet meirs, etc.
other forums? NO? You mean you were not online voicing against Bush? Come on, you didn't turn against Bush until 06 right? Tell the truth now :)
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Is Fox even going to cover it?
They didn't cover his last press conference and I think they used some Palinesque reason like it was already on other channels so why bother (probably knowing full well that for a certain segment of people if they don't see it on Fox then it didn't happen).
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other forums? NO? You mean you were not online voicing against Bush? Come on, you didn't turn against Bush until 06 right? Tell the truth now :)
I got thrown off of FreeRepublic for bashing Bush in February of 2005 after he tried amnesty for illegals again.
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I remember I used to look up Medical records for congressman, actors etc...
I looked up Zell Miller once and it was frightening how many medical problems he suffered from. He nearly died there a few times according to his records. I was assigned the state of Georgia for a while and dealt with his doctors a few times. Arnold Schwarzenegger had United Health Care under Austrian Oak Productions. I was able to sneak a peak at 3 years worth of records of his and he was in generally good health despite having some problems with pain in his legs and a frequent stiffening or limp due to an unspecified accident. (my guess was either skiing or motorcycle).
I remember looking up Brad Pitt, seeing nothing but regular office visits. I looked up Bob Dole and Elizabeth Dole, both had a lot of problems, specifically Bob. I looked up a ton of people, I will try to remember more and what I saw.
Funny side note: All records are kept on MS-DOS for all Insurance companies. In fact, MS-DOS would be used a lot of times for writing medical code and for billing. Its so backwards and United Health is THE TOP Private Health Insurer in the United States.
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I got thrown off of FreeRepublic for bashing Bush in February of 2005 after he tried amnesty for illegals again.
strange since there are several threads on freerepublic with negative commentary on the issue. They didn't get kicked off. Which thread is yours? They're all still there...
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strange since there are several threads on freerepublic with negative commentary on the issue. They didn't get kicked off. Which thread is yours? They're all still there...
They did a purge of a lot of posters all at once. it wanst just illegal immigration, it was harriet meirs, dubai ports, spending. A ton of people got kicked off there.
Read about FR, they dump people all the time.
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They did a purge of a lot of posters all at once. it wanst just illegal immigration, it was harriet meirs, dubai ports, spending. A ton of people got kicked off there.
Read about FR, they dump people all the time.
what was your username there?
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Hopefully we will see some elderly grandmother in a walker who is pissed off come up on stage and suplex Obama into the crowd.
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Hopefully we will see some elderly grandmother in a walker who is pissed off come up on stage and suplex Obama into the crowd.
Maybe they can have Hell in Cell?
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Hugo - this was when I was booted.
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _
Free Republic Purges Immigration Restrictionists
William Gheen of the American for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee (AILPAC) has an article in VDare reporting on a purge of immigration restrictionist advocates from the Frree Republic web site discussion forums.
Members and readers of Free Republic would be surprised to know that many members of their community have fallen silent on the discussions about illegal immigration lately because free speech is an illusion on FreeRepublic.com. They are silent because they have been banned from the Web site without warning, cause, or explanation in most cases. For weeks the moderators have been suspending and banning new members that chimed in quickly on the immigration debates.[Cache of ALIPAC posts, banned]
Now this trend has broadened as the first groups of long-term users were suspended or banned this past week. Although Robinson and his staff removed many members of the Free Republic community in the first few days of the purge, those that religiously support President Bush's immigration plan, open borders and approve of public benefits for illegal aliens remain on the forum. Those that were banned were the members that wanted more done to control illegal immigration and a strict observance to the President's Oath of Office.
By taking sides with the open borders lobby, Jim Robinson has taken a position that is at odds with more than 80 percent of the Free Republic community and the majority of conservatives in America. The fact he is using tactics his own users would find unethical to censor articles and silence opposition with banishments and intimidation is of great concern to all of us as Americans. New members of Free Republic and those that are not aware of Robinson's covert attempts to stifle debate should be warned.
Robinson predictably calls the restrictionists all sorts of the standard nasty names.
In an update Gheen reports that conservative Fox TV News political talk show host Sean Hannity has a dim view of the Free Republic.
Robinsons biggest mistake, besides implying he was fighting to keep Free Republic safe from secret Nazi conspiracies, was to show that the points of the original article were true for all to see. He banned true conservatives left and right in a vain attempt to control the debate while calling people names without any evidence his character attacks were true. He shot himself in the foot while that foot was placed deeply in his own mouth.
Robinson later admitted he had no direct evidence that any of the groups and individuals he banned and maligned were racists. He even admitted that he supported the Presidents guest worker plan and ran a new poll that shows Freeper conservatives are clearly opposed to the Bush immigration plan. In this case it is Mr. Robinson that represents the fringe element and has supported unsubstantiated personal attacks on his forum.
Even Sean Hannity has written off Free Republic, saying "Everyone I knew basically left because of so much childish immature personal attacks, the propensity there to eat their own." [listen to Sean Hannitys Statement about Free Republic. ]
There is perhaps irony in Hannity's reaction because the claim has been made that Hannity's own discussion board censors posters who oppose Bush's illegal alien immigration plan. Parenthetically, there is a reason why criticism of Bush's plan has to be censored: It is really bad. See my previous post "Thinking About Bush's Less Than Half-Baked Worker Permit Proposal" to read about just how bad that proposal really is.
Peter Brimelow wonders if a Bush White House influence-buying slush find is financing the purge.
I used to think that Robinson was simply an egotistical fool. Now, with the revelation of Bush White House subsidies to media supporters, I naturally wonder if more is involved.
My take on Jim Robinson's move is that it is seriously backfiring. He has scaled up his on-going purges to a level that has made them too visible and he's chosen to do this on an issue which elicits strongly held views and where he's far out of sync with the views of the majority of the people on the political right. Free Republic is going to become a shadow of its former self in terms of influence. So many members will be banned or leave on their own accord that Free Republic's hey days are likely behind it. Other sites that host uncensored (except for spam) conservative political debate forums are going to receive a fair number of new members as former Freepers look for new places to go. If enough sites of that sort do not already exist they can be created fairly easily and cheaply. If you know of any conservative or otherwise right-wing general political discussion forum sites (as distinct from blog sites that allow comments) which do not censor immigration restrictionist add links to them in the comments. Gheen has a list of threads in various sites that are discussing the Freeper purge. AILPAC has its own discussion forums including a section devoted to threads on the Freeper purge.
Robinson's purge is backfiring most strongly in the debate about immigration. His purge fits into a larger pattern of elite disdain for popular opinion and the purge serves to draw attention to the extent of the elite disdain of popular opinion on immigration and of the extreme measures which many in the Open Borders lobby will adopt in their attempt to shut out popular views.
By Randall Parker at 2005 February 17 01:40 PM Immigration Politics
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Maybe they can have Hell in Cell?
Why would you want that? The Obama plan is just a continuation of what you currently have. Insurance companies will continue to provide you with a small handful of doctors. You will have no choice other than what doctors the Insurance companies decide you can see. You will be told where you can and can`t go by your insurance policy.
The only positive thing is that with Obama`s plan, you will not be denied for pre-existing conditions and your plan may get a bit cheaper and you have a choice in paying for a public option that will just be a contract from a Private Insurance company.
I don`t see why you would be angry since nothing really changes. You get just a bit of easement, but not near enough at all to really matter.
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TA GETS OWNED AGAIN:
________________________ ________________________ ___________
It's Not An Option
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IBD Exclusive Series: Government-Run Healthcare: A Prescription For Failure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.
It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.
From the beginning, opponents of the public option plan have warned that if the government gets into the business of offering subsidized health insurance coverage, the private insurance market will wither. Drawn by a public option that will be 30% to 40% cheaper than their current premiums because taxpayers will be funding it, employers will gladly scrap their private plans and go with Washington's coverage.
The nonpartisan Lewin Group estimated in April that 120 million or more Americans could lose their group coverage at work and end up in such a program. That would leave private carriers with 50 million or fewer customers. This could cause the market to, as Lewin Vice President John Sheils put it, "fizzle out altogether."
What wasn't known until now is that the bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not letting any new policies be written after the public option becomes law.
The legislation is also likely to finish off health savings accounts, a goal that Democrats have had for years. They want to crush that alternative because nothing gives individuals more control over their medical care, and the government less, than HSAs.
With HSAs out of the way, a key obstacle to the left's expansion of the welfare state will be removed.
The public option won't be an option for many, but rather a mandate for buying government care. A free people should be outraged at this advance of soft tyranny.
Washington does not have the constitutional or moral authority to outlaw private markets in which parties voluntarily participate. It shouldn't be killing business opportunities, or limiting choices, or legislating major changes in Americans' lives.
It took just 16 pages of reading to find this naked attempt by the political powers to increase their reach. It's scary to think how many more breaches of liberty we'll come across in the final 1,002.
I gotta say, a heckuvalot of opposition you have towards this bill seems to be based on poor reading comprehension or simply believing anything you hear. I'm not saying you'd like the bill if you understood the truth, but a link to the bill is posted right on the front page. If you had simply clicked the link and scrolled to page 16, you could have easily seen that the passage in that article was taken out of context.
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Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
THATS WHATS IN THE BILL!!!!MUCH DIFFERENT THEN WHAT OBAMA SAYS.
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Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
THATS WHATS IN THE BILL!!!!MUCH DIFFERENT THEN WHAT OBAMA SAYS.
is there some reason you don't want to post the relevant passages to the comments of what's on those pages?
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I gotta say, a heckuvalot of opposition you have towards this bill seems to be based on poor reading comprehension or simply believing anything you hear. I'm not saying you'd like the bill if you understood the truth, but a link to the bill is posted right on the front page. If you had simply clicked the link and scrolled to page 16, you could have easily seen that the passage in that article was taken out of context.
No one has challenged IBD yet on this.
BTW - I guess the end of life meetings every 5 yerars is bogus too?
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Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
THATS WHATS IN THE BILL!!!!MUCH DIFFERENT THEN WHAT OBAMA SAYS.
Link to bill here:
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf
Provides for a nice compare and contrast.
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Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
THATS WHATS IN THE BILL!!!!MUCH DIFFERENT THEN WHAT OBAMA SAYS.
did you prepare this list yourself. If not, then please post the link where you found the list.
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No one has challenged IBD yet on this.
BTW - I guess the end of life meetings every 5 yerars is bogus too?
Really. This is the teaser for the follow-up to that article posted on their site:
Last week we said the reform plan moving through the House essentially outlaws the private individual medical insurance market. Critics said we were being dishonest. But we're standing by our story.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333066661999894
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is there some reason you don't want to post the relevant passages to the comments of what's on those pages?
The thing would be three miles long.Instead of worrying about the link,argue what it says.Prove its wrong.Or are you like Pelosi and you will now just say "your un-American "or "your a nazi".
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is there some reason you don't want to post the relevant passages to the comments of what's on those pages?
Aren't there 4 bills and another one still in committee
I went to page 29 of the link that Al provided and I can't find anything about rationing.
The whole "rationing" talking point is a canard. We already have rationing now and in fact we effectively already have death panels now (by virtue of health insurance companies refusing to allow treatment for conditions which later become life threatening)
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The thing would be three miles long.Instead of worrying about the link,argue what it says.Prove its wrong.Or are you like Pelosi and you will now just say "your un-American "or "your a nazi".
three miles long? To quote the relevant passages would be three miles long?
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Aren't there 4 bills and another one still in committee
I went to page 29 of the link that Al provided and I can't find anything about rationing.
The whole "rationing" talking point is a canard. We already have rationing now and in fact we effectively already have death panels now (by virtue of health insurance companies refusing to allow treatment for conditions which later become life threatening)
no doubt.
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Aren't there 4 bills and another one still in committee
I went to page 29 of the link that Al provided and I can't find anything about rationing.
The whole "rationing" talking point is a canard. We already have rationing now and in fact we effectively already have death panels now (by virtue of health insurance companies refusing to allow treatment for conditions which later become life threatening)
This is the bill that has been approved by a house committee, most likely to pass.
The "rationing" Mimnaugh is shrieking of is probably related to the section headed "Annual Limitation" on page 29 of that link. That's pretty much how all of these bullet points play out. A completely reasonable passage twisted into a ct grenade.
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This is the bill that has been approved by a house committee, most likely to pass.
The "rationing" Mimnaugh is shrieking of is probably related to the section headed "Annual Limitation" on page 29 of that link. That's pretty much how all of these bullet points play out. A completely reasonable passage twisted into a ct grenade.
yeah I saw that part and I thought that was some type of max limit on co-payments by individual or family
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Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
THATS WHATS IN THE BILL!!!!MUCH DIFFERENT THEN WHAT OBAMA SAYS.
Billy - can you find and post the details from page 29 where it says that health care will be rationed.
Thanks,
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Straw:
Even Obama admits what you wont.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/11/obama_the_post_office_is_always_having_problems.html
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The thing would be three miles long.Instead of worrying about the link,argue what it says.Prove its wrong.Or are you like Pelosi and you will now just say "your un-American "or "your a nazi".
Did you come up with the 'rationing' thing on your own or did you pick it up on FoxNews?
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The thing would be three miles long.Instead of worrying about the link,argue what it says.Prove its wrong.Or are you like Pelosi and you will now just say "your un-American "or "your a nazi".
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Prediction: 240 will make a thread kissing Obama's ass, nobody will interupt the President and by and large the whole thing will be a staged love-fest.
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Prediction: 240 will make a thread kissing Obama's ass, nobody will interupt the President and by and large the whole thing will be a staged love-fest.
gee, except for the fact two people brought guns to the event...
also swastikas painted in georgia. I'm sure dems did that one too.
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gee, except for the fact two people brought guns to the event...
also swastikas painted in georgia. I'm sure dems did that one too.
The dems painted swastikas ALL the time and painted Bush as Hitler constantly.The only swastikas I saw had lines running through them.Carrying a gun is LEGAL in New Hampshire.I know Obama hates that fact but its a law and they left BEFORE Obama showed up despite the spittings of Chris Mathews.