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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on August 22, 2009, 11:30:09 AM
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Boo hoo.
CIA Conducted Mock Executions of Detainees
Interrogators conducted mock executions of terror suspects and in one case threatened a detainee suspected in the USS Cole bombing with a gun and power drill, officials say.
FOXNews.com
Saturday, August 22, 2009
WASHINGTON -- The CIA's internal investigator found that agency interrogators conducted mock executions of terror suspects and in one case threatened a detainee suspected in the USS Cole bombing with a gun and power drill, FOX News has confirmed.
The disclosures are contained in a 2004 report by the CIA's inspector general, which has been kept secret and is to be released next week, a source confirmed to FOX News.
The report's findings were first reported by Newsweek on its Web site Friday night.
In one case, interrogators brought a gun and power drill into a session with suspected Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, the report says. The homicide bombing of the warship USS Cole killed 17 U.S. sailors in Yemen in 2000.
In another episode, a gunshot was fired in a room next to a detainee to make the prisoner believe another suspect had been killed, according to the report, which a federal judge has ordered to be made public Monday in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union.
Nashiri was one of three CIA prisoners subjected to waterboarding, a brutal interrogation technique that simulates drowning that was among 10 techniques approved by the Bush administration's Justice Department in 2002. President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have denounced waterboarding as torture.
"The CIA in no way endorsed behavior-- no matter how infrequent-- that went beyond formal guidance," said agency spokesman Paul Gimigliano. He declined to comment on the contents of the IG report.
Threatening a prisoner with death violates U.S. anti-torture laws.
Holder is considering whether to appoint a criminal prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration's interrogation practices, a controversial move that would run counter to President Barack Obama's wishes to leave the issue in the past.
Gimigliano said the career prosecutors at the Justice Department have reviewed the report to determine if any laws were broken and whether the interrogators should be prosecuted.
"Professionals in the Department of Justice decided if and when to pursue prosecution," he said.
"That's how the system was supposed to work, and that's how it did work."
Just one CIA contract interrogator, David Passaro, has been prosecuted. He was found guilty in 2007 in the beating death of a prisoner in Afghanistan.
The Los Angeles Times reported Aug. 9 that a CIA operative brought a gun into an interrogation booth to force a detainee to talk. One of the congressional officials told the AP that referred to the interrogation of the USS Cole suspect.
The IG review was completed in May 2004. The ACLU has sought its release since then. It was expected to be released earlier this year but was delayed by government request.
The IG review cast doubt on the effectiveness of the harsh interrogation methods employed by CIA interrogators, according to quotes from the report that were contained in Bush-era Justice Department memos declassified this spring. It says no attacks were averted by information obtained using harsh interrogation methods.
The CIA detained and interrogated 94 terrorist suspects; 28 were subjected to harsh methods. Of those three were waterboarded, according to government documents made public earlier this year.
But former CIA Director Michael Hayden said this week at a panel discussion in Washington that the review also credits the harsh interrogation with yielding information on Al Qaeda's basic infrastrucutre, which in turn allowed the CIA to fight the organization behind the 9/11 hijackings.
John L. Helgerson, the now-retired CIA inspector who spearheaded the investigation, told the AP in June that the report is a comprehensive review of everything the CIA did in the secret detention and interrogation program begun in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
The investigation was undertaken in response to concerns expressed by agency employees about the program, he added.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/21/report-details-harsh-cia-methods-interrogation-threats-power-drill/
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In another episode, a gunshot was fired in a room next to a detainee to make the prisoner believe another suspect had been killed, according to the report, which a federal judge has ordered to be made public Monday in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union.
I'm not one to stand up for the bureaucratic CIA, but I don't really see a problem with this.
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Should this be upsetting? Let's not forget about the hundreds of execution videos that Muslim terrorists have posted on the internet.
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Should this be upsetting?
Nope.
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When I saw the thread title I was gonna post boo hoo but Beach beat me to it....who cares.
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I could care less if we do it.
But we can't sit on a high horse when they do it to our guys :(
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I could care less if we do it.
But we can't sit on a high horse when they do it to our guys :(
They stage mock executions of our guys? Pretty sure they usually flat out kill them, after severely torturing them first. Unless, of course, you think that's the same thing. ::)
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They stage mock executions of our guys? Pretty sure they usually flat out kill them, after severely torturing them first. Unless, of course, you think that's the same thing. ::)
Okay. So it's wrong for me to punch a guy twice, but it's cool for you to do it once?
We're both breaking geneva. They're just doing it worse. Great. They're worse, but we have no moral standing to lecture from, since we broke Geneva too.
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Okay. So it's wrong for me to punch a guy twice, but it's cool for you to do it once?
We're both breaking geneva. They're just doing it worse. Great. They're worse, but we have no moral standing to lecture from, since we broke Geneva too.
It's not a two for one issue. It's murder vs a scare tactic. You really put those on the same level?
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It's not a two for one issue. It's murder vs a scare tactic. You really put those on the same level?
Of course they're not the same level.
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Okay. So it's wrong for me to punch a guy twice, but it's cool for you to do it once?
We're both breaking geneva. They're just doing it worse. Great. They're worse, but we have no moral standing to lecture from, since we broke Geneva too.
I personally don't care about "moral standing". Moral standing gets Americans killed. Playing nice gets you your head sawed off while you're held down by five masked men. Geneva is a nice little thing that people seem to like throwing in the face of established countries whenever something "bad" that was meant to be secret shows up. Never mind the fact that it's violated daily by people across the world. Take the moral high road or save American lives? Tough decision. ::)
"Please Mr. Taliban, play fair. They want us Americans to but couldn't care less about the fact that you violate the "Geneva Conventions" whenever you feel like it. Please!!" What a crock of shit.
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It's not a two for one issue. It's murder vs a scare tactic. You really put those on the same level?
David Passaro did. You remember him don't you? The guy who "scared" an Afghan prisoner to death. ::)
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David Passaro did. You remember him don't you? The guy who "scared" an Afghan prisoner to death. ::)
Passaro starved and beat an innocent man to death and he was tried and convicted for that crime. That's not a scare tactic and it's a far cry from the scare tactic being discussed in this thread. Try and keep up Jag.
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Theres a thing called psychological torture. It's not suppose to be an American value. We can't behave like barbarians while preaching to the rest of the world about democracy, peace and justice, etc....
It's one thing to defend yourself, it's another to behave like you're morally bankrupt. Plus it's proven time and time again that a person will say just about anything under those conditions, how valuable is that intelligence? It could just get more innocent people killed and start the whole cycle of unneccessary retaliatory violence again.
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I personally don't care about "moral standing". Moral standing gets Americans killed. Playing nice gets you your head sawed off while you're held down by five masked men. Geneva is a nice little thing that people seem to like throwing in the face of established countries whenever something "bad" that was meant to be secret shows up. Never mind the fact that it's violated daily by people across the world. Take the moral high road or save American lives? Tough decision. ::)
"Please Mr. Taliban, play fair. They want us Americans to but couldn't care less about the fact that you violate the "Geneva Conventions" whenever you feel like it. Please!!" What a crock of shit.
Everytime I read your posts on this issue it now reminds me of that old CIA fart. There's no other way to save lives then torture, etc...?
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One thing I cant understand about Americans
WHY do you put everything in reports?
WHY do you allow photos to be taken of what your doing?
This always bites you in the ass but you always do it ??? ??? ???
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Okay. So it's wrong for me to punch a guy twice, but it's cool for you to do it once?
We're both breaking geneva. They're just doing it worse. Great. They're worse, but we have no moral standing to lecture from, since we broke Geneva too.
Who gives a rats ass about Geneva?
I don't know if you have friends who serve, but ask them how much they think about the Geneva convention when they are shot at from a hospital by terrorists that dress like women and their little 13yo friends that is shooting at you from his school.
http://righttruth.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c49a69e201156e8875bb970c-popup
http://righttruth.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c49a69e201156f82bbc0970b-320wi
http://doroteos2.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/boy-with-gun.jpg?w=150&h=122
I would shot any of this fuckers if I'm in a combat zone and he's packing! So take your Geneva and shove it the ass of the dead people who followed it when they shouldn't.
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Who gives a rats ass about Geneva?
I don't know if you have friends who serve, but ask them how much they think about the Geneva convention when they are shot at from a hospital by terrorists that dress like women and their little 13yo friends that is shooting at you from his school.
http://righttruth.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c49a69e201156e8875bb970c-popup
http://righttruth.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c49a69e201156f82bbc0970b-320wi
http://doroteos2.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/boy-with-gun.jpg?w=150&h=122
I would shot any of this fuckers if I'm in a combat zone and he's packing! So take your Geneva and shove it the ass of the dead people who followed it when they shouldn't.
I think we're talking about the treatment of detainees, not debating protocol during actual combat.
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I think we're talking about the treatment of detainees, not debating protocol during actual combat.
It doesn't matter, 240 speaks of following the rules, you can't have one side getting abused by the other just because it follow the rules.
If you won't get the info out of the detainees than your people on the battle field will die, it's a valid analogy to actual combat.
And my analogy was used to show how little respect for the rules they have, it do or die in war.
In WW2 both sides were carpet bombing cities....I don't see anyone crying about that, do or die man...do or die.
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It doesn't matter, 240 speaks of following the rules, you can't have one side getting abused by the other just because it follow the rules.
If you won't get the info out of the detainees than your people on the battle field will die, it's a valid analogy to actual combat.
And my analogy was used to show how little respect for the rules they have, it do or die in war.
In WW2 both sides were carpet bombing cities....I don't see anyone crying about that, do or die man...do or die.
I thought we executed japanese who waterboarded our troops in WWII to get info on WMD (the nukes wee later used on them)?
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Theres a thing called psychological torture. It's not suppose to be an American value. We can't behave like barbarians while preaching to the rest of the world about democracy, peace and justice, etc....
It's one thing to defend yourself, it's another to behave like you're morally bankrupt. Plus it's proven time and time again that a person will say just about anything under those conditions, how valuable is that intelligence? It could just get more innocent people killed and start the whole cycle of unneccessary retaliatory violence again.
What he said!
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I thought we executed japanese who waterboarded our troops in WWII to get info on WMD (the nukes wee later used on them)?
So? You punish those who tried to hurt you and your people, it doesn't mean that you won't do the same to reach your goals.
Seriously, are you 5 year old? Boo hooo there is some hypocrisy in the world...shit it's not even hypocrisy..it's working for your goals....you help yourself...hurt your enemies...in war... business and every other thing in life.
That's how shit goes.
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I thought we executed japanese who waterboarded our troops in WWII to get info on WMD (the nukes wee later used on them)?
I'm confused.
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“Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause… for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country.” - George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775
“‘Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,’ he wrote. In all respects the prisoners were to be treated no worse than American soldiers; and in some respects, better. Through this approach, Washington sought to shame his British adversaries, and to demonstrate the moral superiority of the American cause.”
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I'm not one to stand up for the bureaucratic CIA, but I don't really see a problem with this.
That's because none of your family members getting executed.
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Everytime I read your posts on this issue it now reminds me of that old CIA fart. There's no other way to save lives then torture, etc...?
Hey look, it's the delusional clown who still shows his face around here even after the fact that Benny exposed you for nothing more than blabbering retard with a grasp of economics that only an "Economics for Dummies" book could teach. Why bother posting a video knowing I won't watch it?
That's because none of your family members getting executed.
You mean like the family members of the people who have the videos of their heads being sawed off plastered all over the internet? I don't see where it says the CIA is staging actual executions.
People talking about morals are amusing. Governments do not have moral obligations. They're obligated to protect the citizens of that country. If that involves staging mock executions, so be it. Mock executions or severing limbs with swords, electrical shock and beheadings. I wonder which one is worse? ::)
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[...]You mean like the family members of the people who have the videos of their heads being sawed off plastered all over the internet? I don't see where it says the CIA is staging actual executions. ::)
I didn't say there was evidence, you did. All I said to Purge was that he is ok with executions, as a whole, because his family members are neither the executors nor the executees.
Simple thing to understand.
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“Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause… for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country.” - George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775
“‘Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,’ he wrote. In all respects the prisoners were to be treated no worse than American soldiers; and in some respects, better. Through this approach, Washington sought to shame his British adversaries, and to demonstrate the moral superiority of the American cause.”
A slave owner for a lecture in morality? Washington did a great thing liberating us from the British, but morality wasn't exactly his strong point.
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A slave owner for a lecture in morality? Washington did a great thing liberating us from the British, but morality wasn't exactly his strong point.
fair point but then so did everyone else in his class at that time.
It doesn't (IMO) diminish his point of view or his reasoning on the subject of torture (and I think that mock executions are a form of torture)
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Hey look, it's the delusional clown who still shows his face around here even after the fact that Benny exposed you for nothing more than blabbering retard with a grasp of economics that only an "Economics for Dummies" book could teach. Why bother posting a video knowing I won't watch it?
You mean like the family members of the people who have the videos of their heads being sawed off plastered all over the internet? I don't see where it says the CIA is staging actual executions.
People talking about morals are amusing. Governments do not have moral obligations. They're obligated to protect the citizens of that country. If that involves staging mock executions, so be it. Mock executions or severing limbs with swords, electrical shock and beheadings. I wonder which one is worse? ::)
Says the guy that feels so inadequate he lies about what school he attends. You have to one of the most bitter people ever. You're no differnet than the ranting lunatics on the other side. Go talk to someone man.
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Seriously, are you 5 year old? Boo hooo there is some hypocrisy in the world...shit it's not even hypocrisy..it's working for your goals....you help yourself...hurt your enemies...in war... business and every other thing in life.
That's how shit goes.
i agree 100%.
It is this kind of honesty that I wished for all along.
instead of lying to americans for year about "WMD", just admit the saudis are kicking us out and we need a place for bases.
Most of us would agree with, and support, the conqueror nature of the USA, if our leaders would just be straight with us. Bush and cheney used a lot of lies and fearmongering. Just be honest. We could use the oil, the bases are essential, and saddam sucks... so we're gonna invade ;)
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All I said to Purge was that he is ok with executions, as a whole, because his family members are neither the executors nor the executees.
Er, no. I meant that I have no problem with the CIA duping terrorists into thinking that other terrorists were being shot in the next room.
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i agree 100%.
It is this kind of honesty that I wished for all along.
instead of lying to americans for year about "WMD", just admit the saudis are kicking us out and we need a place for bases.
Most of us would agree with, and support, the conqueror nature of the USA, if our leaders would just be straight with us. Bush and cheney used a lot of lies and fearmongering. Just be honest. We could use the oil, the bases are essential, and saddam sucks... so we're gonna invade ;)
It was more than just the bases, the old saying "the best defense is a good offensive" isn't a joke.
We took the fight to them, roughly the same amount of people died on our side in the whole Iraq war compared to 9/11.
If we stayed in defensive mode they only need one good day on their part to equal the number of casualties in the entire Iraq war.
By taking the war to them we can control it much better and reach goals and at least the soldiers are dying in a fight and not while sitting in their office like a sitting duck, also the enemy is being hunted.
We could have just sit down and close the borders....but that wouldn't have helped.
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i agree 100%.
It is this kind of honesty that I wished for all along.
instead of lying to americans for year about "WMD", just admit the saudis are kicking us out and we need a place for bases.
Most of us would agree with, and support, the conqueror nature of the USA, if our leaders would just be straight with us. Bush and cheney used a lot of lies and fearmongering. Just be honest. We could use the oil, the bases are essential, and saddam sucks... so we're gonna invade ;)
Because we're not allowed to say things like that. People want to look through rose colored glasses and think the world is this lovey dovey place. It's not. And it's not going to be anytime soon. It's us or them. Has been that way, is that way and will continue to be that way as the oil supplies start to shrivel up.
Morality is a joke. Either way, our track record pales in comparison to every other power out there.
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If u shoot from a hospital, school or mosque..its no longer a hospital school or mosque...thats in the Geneva Convention. U guys really ought to take a law of war course and see what can and can't be done. There was a reason that Bush had a problem with the enemy combatant thing...they don't fall anywhere. They're not soldiers nor criminals. Did the CIA go overboard a bit..sure but thats the CIA, their rules are different. These people suck...
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Er, no. I meant that I have no problem with the CIA duping terrorists into thinking that other terrorists were being shot in the next room.
Meaning you do have an issue with executions but not torture.
Quite a tradeoff.
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Either way, our track record pales in comparison to every other power out there.
EVERY one?
LOL... we didn't get to be the #1 superpower by helping the most old ladies across the street lol...
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fair point but then so did everyone else in his class at that time.
It doesn't (IMO) diminish his point of view or his reasoning on the subject of torture (and I think that mock executions are a form of torture)
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EVERY one?
LOL... we didn't get to be the #1 superpower by helping the most old ladies across the street lol...
Care to show me a major world power with a better track record than us? Perhaps the Chinese? Or maybe the Russians? Maybe the English or French? All beacons of morality throughout their existences. ::)
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Care to show me a major world power with a better track record than us? Perhaps the Chinese? Or maybe the Russians? Maybe the English or French? All beacons of morality throughout their existences. ::)
Youre the one who made the statement that "our track record pales in comparison to every other power out there"
Is there any way to quantify that?
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Youre the one who made the statement that "our track record pales in comparison to every other power out there"
Is there any way to quantify that?
You're the one who disagrees with my statement. So go ahead and prove me wrong. Feel free to post every atrocity carried out by us and then do the same for England, France, China and Russia throughout their existences.
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"If there be righteousness --" not self-righteousness; "If there be righteousness in the heart, there will be beauty in the character. If there be beauty in the character, there will be harmony in the home. If there be harmony in the home, there will be order in the Nation. And if there be order in the Nation, there will be peace in the world."
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"If there be righteousness --" not self-righteousness; "If there be righteousness in the heart, there will be beauty in the character. If there be beauty in the character, there will be harmony in the home. If there be harmony in the home, there will be order in the Nation. And if there be order in the Nation, there will be peace in the world."
"Yabba dabba doo" - Fred Flinstone
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"Yabba dabba doo" - Fred Flinstone
"I wiped backwards and got shit on my balls again ma" gaybear.