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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on August 24, 2009, 01:21:18 PM
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All anyone needs to do is look at Cash for Clunkers to see how health care will be run.
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You know what, she was probably the smartest one of all of us.
Stamp your feet, demand free crap from everyone else, throw a tantrum why everyone else owes you taxpayer funded free stuff, and BAM!
Obama is in there promising free stuff for everyone.
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See could work at Sue's Rendevouz in Mt. Vernon.
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See could work at Sue's Rendevouz in Mt. Vernon.
;D
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Wow...what an idiot. Say what u want...our wack jobs can hunt, skin shit, fire weapons and cook. Whats she equiped to do.
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;D
http://www.suesny.com/
All they have is curvy black & spanish chicks. Very hot women.
Jay Z, DMX, et al all sing about this place. Its about 3 minutes from me.
I cant say I have never been there. ;D
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Good link...u earned ur forehead star for the day.
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Ever since Matt Hughes used that song he got his ass kicked.
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Ever since Matt Hughes used that song he got his ass kicked.
true
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This is what im blasting in the office lately. Old school Maiden.
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I second the Maiden choice!
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Truth!
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the private sector has failed with healthcare - umm, need we say more?
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excellent vid
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What is so incredible is that it has to be spelled out like that for people, ...and many still won't get it. ::)
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You know what, she was probably the smartest one of all of us.
Stamp your feet, demand free crap from everyone else, throw a tantrum why everyone else owes you taxpayer funded free stuff, and BAM!
you make her sound like a fortune 500 CEO.
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the private sector has failed with healthcare - umm, need we say more?
The private sector is highly regulated by the state and fed governments as it is. There is no such thing as a free market in health care.
If there were, I could purchase the 150 per month plan offered in Georgia here in NY. Why cant I do that? Govt regulations.
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The Federal Government has no constitutional authority to do this.
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There is no power in the constitution granted for the federal gov to mandate and control healthcare. It may seem like an appealing idea to have more people covered, remove pre-existing condition clauses, bolster preventative medicine and primary care and ration care differently but there are other ways to accomplish health care reform.
Any of you guys that are solidly behind the government single payor option see that we are predicted to be 9 trillion dollars in debt over the next decade? That the budget deficit for 2009 is triple what it was in 2008. Do you guys truely see Obama making significant cuts? How will we pay for healthcare with the inefficiency and already mountainous debt of the federal government?
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The private sector is highly regulated by the state and fed governments as it is. There is no such thing as a free market in health care.
If there were, I could purchase the 150 per month plan offered in Georgia here in NY. Why cant I do that? Govt regulations.
You are right - in fact there is no such thing as a free market full stop. Every sector is regulate, and you know why because an absolute free market wouldn't work
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good video but we need a version for Retards because this Dummies version is still over their head
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good video but we need a version for Retards because this Dummies version is still over their head
Maybe I can find a dip shits version of the constitution for those who still don't get that.
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Maybe I can find a dip shits version of the constitution for those who still don't get that.
feel free
or you can even just explain in your own words
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feel free
or you can even just explain in your own words
What do you want explained? That the federal government has no constitutional authority to run health care?
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What do you want explained? That the federal government has no constitutional authority to run health care?
so you think we should abolish Medicare and the VA and CHIP?
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There is no power in the constitution granted for the federal gov to mandate and control healthcare. It may seem like an appealing idea to have more people covered, remove pre-existing condition clauses, bolster preventative medicine and primary care and ration care differently but there are other ways to accomplish health care reform.
::)
It is more than "an appealing idea" it is a necessity, ..because your current system is unsustainable.
This is a realization that most civilized western industrialized countries have come to, ...that's why they have UHC.
The time to act on healthcare reform is NOW before you reach a tipping point, ...cause that tipping point will come.
What do you want explained? That the federal government has no constitutional authority to run health care?
Kazan, ...perhaps it is YOU that requires an explaination? ???
The US Constitution is not a document detailing what the government has the authority to do...
...it is a document detailing what the government MUST do, as well as what it does NOT have authority to do.
It does NOT grant government authority, it is a 'put people first' document that grants people the authority over their very lives. Furthermore... if you demand evidence, or require proof that the authority mandate exists within the Constitution for the gov to establish universal healthcare, ...it can be argued it exists in the very preamble itself. As advocates for Universal Health care... we hold these truths to be self-evident. :P
Please point out for us all, where in the Constitution it says that health care is beyond the government's authority.
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What do you want explained? That the federal government has no constitutional authority to run health care?
Like that ever stopped politicians before.
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so you think we should abolish Medicare and the VA and CHIP?
I don't have a problem with the VA, its the least the nation can do for those who server and protect the nation. What you don't seem to get is the constitution limits the power of the federal government and defers it to the state. The state wants to run medicare or CHIP thats fine, but the fed has no authority.
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Jag, I didn't choose those words well. I want all those things in my post too...just think there may be a better way to acheive them than what is being proposed.
The constitution limits the power of the federal government, they are taking incredible liberty in proposing federally controlled and mandated healthcare. Most constitutional lawyers would probably agree that the constitution does not support this move. That doesn't mean it can't be done, just that it is not a right of the federal gov under the original constitution. The whole point of the constitution is too make sure the federal government doesn't become too strong...which is the opposite intent of this administration. I mean no insult, its just two very different philosophies. There are intelligent people on both sides. Though I may disagree with Jag and Decker on the purpose and scope of government, I respect their positions because they are intelligent and can usually defend their positions.
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Jag, I didn't choose those words well. I want all those things in my post too...just think there may be a better way to acheive them than what is being proposed.
The constitution limits the power of the federal government, they are taking incredible liberty in proposing federally controlled and mandated healthcare. Most constitutional lawyers would probably agree that the constitution does not support this move. That doesn't mean it can't be done, just that it is not a right of the federal gov under the original constitution. The whole point of the constitution is too make sure the federal government doesn't become too strong...which is the opposite intent of this administration. I mean no insult, its just two very different philosophies. There are intelligent people on both sides. Though I may disagree with Jag and Decker on the purpose and scope of government, I respect their positions because they are intelligent and can usually defend their positions.
Shoot - Jag is too busy with this right now.
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haha. Jag, you gotta admit, your at least a little mesmerized by Obama.
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I don't have a problem with the VA, its the least the nation can do for those who server and protect the nation. What you don't seem to get is the constitution limits the power of the federal government and defers it to the state. The state wants to run medicare or CHIP thats fine, but the fed has no authority.
Well it's the Feds who run Medicare and CHIP.
You propose we either put that on the states or just scrap it.
I have to say it would make for some interesting shift in the population if ony certain states had medicare.
What else do you think the Founders would have been opposed to in our current system?
Should we have an EPA or an FDA?
They wrote an ammendment process into the constitution
Does the Federal Govt have to ammend the constitution every time they institute a new service or benefit to citizens/taxpayers?
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Kazan, ...perhaps it is YOU that requires an explaination? ???
The US Constitution is not a document detailing what the government has the authority to do...
...it is a document detailing what the government MUST do, as well as what it does NOT have authority to do.
It does NOT grant government authority, it is a 'put people first' document that grants people the authority over their very lives. Furthermore... if you demand evidence, or require proof that the authority mandate exists within the Constitution for the gov to establish universal healthcare, ...it can be argued it exists in the very preamble itself. As advocates for Universal Health care... we hold these truths to be self-evident. :P
Please point out for us all, where in the Constitution it says that health care is beyond the government's authority.
You don't have clue what you are talking about, I suppose you mean this
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"
To say that could be argued for health care is a complete misinterpretation designed only to unsuccessfully attempt to support a leftist ideology.
What they (the Founders) are talking about here is the collection of taxes to support a civil society. The meaning is clear and if you look at the definition of welfare of that time period you'll see they are talking about providing a civil society and government that exempts citizens from any unusual evil or calamity. They are talking about providing welfare of the Union - the state itself, not health insurance for individuals. The clause has nothing to do with individuals, it's the general welfare of the UNITED STATES.
Throughout the years people have tried to redefine it or say it's unclear, but in reality the meaning is quite clear.... just like the rest of the Constitution.
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Well it's the Feds who run Medicare and CHIP.
You propose we either put that on the states or just scrap it.
I have to say it would make for some interesting shift in the population if ony certain states had medicare.
What else do you think the Founders would have been opposed to in our current system?
Should we have an EPA or an FDA?
They wrote an ammendment process into the constitution
Does the Federal Govt have to ammend the constitution every time they institute a new service or benefit to citizens/taxpayers?
Thats why they wrote an amendement process into the constitution, if it that important then the government should have no problem amending the constition, the problem is they don't want to go through the process they just want to pass bills into law and for all intensive purposes make the US citizen believe it is for their own good.
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Canadcare is not run by the Feds.
Each province administers their own health care based on the needs of the province.
That is why healthcare in Canada is so varied.
It should be the same in the US if this passes.
Personally I see no problem in single regulation.
However government run programs suck.
I should know.
I have to deal with government liqour stores, government insurance and government health care.
I can't buy any specialty whisky.
My premiums are higher for car insurance and I can't sue in the case of an accident and my father in law has been waiting 8 months for shoulder surgery.
But if you are broke, get in lots of accidents and are in poor health, its great.
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Thats why they wrote an amendement process into the constitution, if it that important then the government should have no problem amending the constition, the problem is they don't want to go through the process they just want to pass bills into law and for all intensive purposes make the US citizen believe it is for their own good.
I suspect that the recipients of Medicare and CHIP would overwhelminlgy agree it's for their own good
what do you think?
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Insurance companies have the best of all worlds.....they flush sick individuals out of their system (pre-existing etc)....and keep the healthy ones paying premiums until 65 (when declining health typically begins) then push them off to the Federal government's Medicare system.
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So, why not have better regulation over and competition between health insurers? The gov could certainly set up more regulations for insurance companies to follow (like eliminating pre-existing condition clauses, limiting % of out of pocket expenses, tax deductions for medical coverage, competition across state lines, etc)
I listened to Howard Dean's townhall yesterday and he admitted some aspects of healthcare perform better as a for profit.
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So, why not have better regulation over and competition between health insurers? The gov could certainly set up more regulations for insurance companies to follow (like eliminating pre-existing condition clauses, limiting % of out of pocket expenses, tax deductions for medical coverage, competition across state lines, etc)
I listened to Howard Dean's townhall yesterday and he admitted some aspects of healthcare perform better as a for profit.
We already have a crap load of regulations that stifle competition. In NY alone, every company has a list of like 400 something things they have to cover in order to do business in the state. It makes the premiums sky high.
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I suspect that the recipients of Medicare and CHIP would overwhelminlgy agree it's for their own good
what do you think?
So what, doesn't mean the federal government is right and is following the constitution. Like I said it is up to the states to decide, not the fed.