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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Doug_Steele on September 06, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
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It's a business but you know that Seymour hates going to the Raiders
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It's a business but you know that Seymour hates going to the Raiders
He's not even 30 years old and the dude's sporting 3 Super Bowl rings...the rest of his career is gravy....doesn't matter to him where he finishes his career now, I bet.
But the Raiders are easily the NFL's shittiest run organization. They won't get better until Al Davis is dead or sells the team(which will never happen). Sad but true.....
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It's a business but you know that Seymour hates going to the Raiders
Doug Steele...I know you're a Wolverine fan, right? How about OSU almost losing to NAVY on Saturday???
I was in downtown Annapolis, MD last night and the entire city was buzzing about how Navy almost upset the #3 ranked team in the nation on the road.
Navy has built a hell of a football program in the last 12 years. Navy will play you for 60 minutes, no matter who the opponent. You can never sleep on Navy.
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I'm proud of Navy, they do alot while being handicaped recruiting wise. The Pats try very hard to evaluate guys when they're on their way down but still have value. I would have thought Seymour would have played very hard this season for a new contract, regardless of the team. I guess BB saw that they could get something for him without undermining the D line. They are fairly deep there. There is alot of buzz on the Boston Sports boards about this being the opening shot for a trade for J. Peppers. I don't see it.
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This shocked me! At first I was scratching my head, but after tuning into sports radio it makes sense, I guess.
Wilfork, Seymour and Brady are all up for contracts at the end of the year. Who was going to be the odd man out? Ob not Brady, and Wilfork is a guy that you have to keep. Ron Brace has been stellar so far and I think the pats are going to run a 4/3 this year to allow Mayo to shine even more. Sey is a BEAST, but has been hurt a lot over the last few years. You have to keep Wilfork over Sey if you have to make the call. Not to mention, what trade value does say have at the end of the year when he's going to be a free agent anyway? Not much.
As for the pick, I was wondering why they went for a 2011 first rounder. Next year will be an uncapped year, and all the rookies coming out are going to want huge contracts, because in 2011 the owners have stated that their will be a set salary for all rookies who are drafted. Clearly this makes a 2011 pick more valuable than a 2010 pick, because if all rookies have a set salary, they can't hold out and demand huge money. Lets face it, this pick will be a top 10 pick because it's the raiders and they suck, and the pats never want to draft in the top 10 because if the prospect is a bust you are totally fucked from a cap standpoint.
Belichick has always been very good with trading and moving picks, so I cant really figure out anything wrong with this move. I'd rather have Wilfork than Sey. If we didn't have Brace, Greene and Titus I'd be pissed.
We'll see what happens!
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I'm proud of Navy, they do alot while being handicaped recruiting wise. The Pats try very hard to evaluate guys when they're on their way down but still have value. I would have thought Seymour would have played very hard this season for a new contract, regardless of the team. I guess BB saw that they could get something for him without undermining the D line. They are fairly deep there. There is alot of buzz on the Boston Sports boards about this being the opening shot for a trade for J. Peppers. I don't see it.
If you mean that Navy is handicapped because a minimum 120 IQ with experience in advance placement courses is required to join the Naval Academy, then yes I agree with you.
Be that as it may...it's still impressive that the Navy football program can field such a competitive team year in and year out.
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This shocked me! At first I was scratching my head, but after tuning into sports radio it makes sense, I guess.
Wilfork, Seymour and Brady are all up for contracts at the end of the year. Who was going to be the odd man out? Ob not Brady, and Wilfork is a guy that you have to keep. Ron Brace has been stellar so far and I think the pats are going to run a 4/3 this year to allow Mayo to shine even more. Sey is a BEAST, but has been hurt a lot over the last few years. You have to keep Wilfork over Sey if you have to make the call. Not to mention, what trade value does say have at the end of the year when he's going to be a free agent anyway? Not much.
As for the pick, I was wondering why they went for a 2011 first rounder. Next year will be an uncapped year, and all the rookies coming out are going to want huge contracts, because in 2011 the owners have stated that their will be a set salary for all rookies who are drafted. Clearly this makes a 2011 pick more valuable than a 2010 pick, because if all rookies have a set salary, they can't hold out and demand huge money. Lets face it, this pick will be a top 10 pick because it's the raiders and they suck, and the pats never want to draft in the top 10 because if the prospect is a bust you are totally fucked from a cap standpoint.
Belichick has always been very good with trading and moving picks, so I cant really figure out anything wrong with this move. I'd rather have Wilfork than Sey. If we didn't have Brace, Greene and Titus I'd be pissed.
We'll see what happens!
Who will be the starting RE for ther Pats?
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I agree....which is why I don't post much here...because Body pretty much posts how I feel. I was shocked the same....but again they have alot of D line folks, so they needed to get something for him. I hope they get Vince's contract done now....mountains that move like him are very rare.
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If you mean that Navy is handicapped because a minimum 120 IQ with experience in advance placement courses is required to join the Naval Academy, then yes I agree with you.
Be that as it may...it's still impressive that the Navy football program can field such a competitive team year in and year out.
Navy and Air Force have much better success then Army because they have different rules (which I was unaware of) then West Point. U can opt out of ur Navy/AF contract at the end of ur time if u have a shot at the Pro's. At AF u can actually work out a deal where u work for the Academy in the football program as a 2nd LT till ur AF time is up. A buddy of mine was in the West Point recruiting Office when the whole Caleb Campbell thing was going on. The coach told him he'd be fine to play in the NFL...West Point was adopting a wait and see and big Army said hell no. Apparently they got tons of phone calls and letters etc...mostly against letting him play. I don't agree at all, but thats the story as I've been told.
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Who will be the starting RE for ther Pats?
I think they might run the 4/3....and that would make Ron Brace out of BC that guy. Jarvis Greene, Titus and Mike Wright would back him up. Belichick usually knows when to cut the cord with guys, so we'll have to see how it plays out. Ty Warren and Wilfork are nasty, so I think they will be ok.
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pats get away with murder once again
seymour is a complete stud, but not worth a 1st rounder at this point. The pats are guarenteed a top 10 pick in 2011 with this.
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i don't know but i remember hearing some talking head several months back say he was past his prime, looks like the pats agree
the same can be said about casey hampton who was drafted the same year, he's in the last year of his contract and won't be resigned
this is the second gift the raiders have given the pats, first it was moss for a 4th round pick
the rich get richer because the poor are morons ::)
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i don't know but i remember hearing some talking head several months back say he was past his prime, looks like the pats agree
the same can be said about casey hampton who was drafted the same year, he's in the last year of his contract and won't be resigned
this is the second gift the raiders have given the pats, first it was moss for a 4th round pick
the rich get richer because the poor are morons ::)
E
People were ragging on the 2007 draft for only generating Goskowski and Meriweather, conveniently ignoring that the pats flipped their second rounder for Wes Welker (now a pro bowler) and Randy Moss, who went on to catch 23 td passes that year. Anyone who says that they wouldn't have traded a second and a fourth for Moss + Welker that year is lying their ass off. I'd say Moss, Goskowski, Meriweather and Welker aint a bad haul for a first a second a fourth and a fifth.
Jarvis Greene stepped in for Sey over 34 games over the last two years and did a good job. The pats might suffer a little in the run game this year, but they've set themselves up for the future yet again.
As for the Raiders, they might get better this year, but they will have to cough up a massive contract for a guy who's best years are behind him. Sey's still a stud, but he aint the guy he was in 2004
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Whoa. What did he do to deserve this? There had to be a better franchise willing to give up a first round pick. This is likely going to be a high pick too.
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Whoa. What did he do to deserve this? There had to be a better franchise willing to give up a first round pick. This is likely going to be a high pick too.
Maybe. maybe not. Seymour wants a huge contract and I'm not sure if he should get one considering his age. He's still a stud for two more season or so, but after that....I dunno. Would you be ok with your niners giving up a 1st rounder and a massive contract to a guy who's approaching the back nine? Sey's been hurt A LOT over the last three years.
Let me make it clear that Sey is one of the best de's in the NFL right now, but he's passed his best years. He's never been the same since he was used as a FB and TE in goal line situations.
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Maybe. maybe not. Seymour wants a huge contract and I'm not sure if he should get one considering his age. He's still a stud for two more season or so, but after that....I dunno. Would you be ok with your niners giving up a 1st rounder and a massive contract to a guy who's approaching the back nine? Sey's been hurt A LOT over the last three years.
Let me make it clear that Sey is one of the best de's in the NFL right now, but he's passed his best years. He's never been the same since he was used as a FB and TE in goal line situations.
You don't think the Raiders would be picking near the top of the first round in 2011? I don't see them improving so long as Al Davis is alive.
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You don't think the Raiders would be picking near the top of the first round in 2011? I don't see them improving so long as Al Davis is alive.
I do, I'm saying that the raiders got owned yet again. I would not have been ok with this move if Wilfork was not up for a contract and if we didn't have some depth on the line. Long term this was the right thing to do, I think. I think Bill might be going with the 4/3 because of so many teams now moving to the 3/4. If this is the case, they have more than enough talent on the line to get by. People forget that Wilfork and Warren are pro-bowl players.
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I do, I'm saying that the raiders got owned yet again. I would not have been ok with this move if Wilfork was not up for a contract and if we didn't have some depth on the line. Long term this was the right thing to do, I think. I think Bill might be going with the 4/3 because of so many teams now moving to the 3/4. If this is the case, they have more than enough talent on the line to get by. People forget that Wilfork and Warren are pro-bowl players.
I guess we'll see if it was a good move. Very risky to trade a Pro Bowl DT and get nothing immediately in return in this "win now" league.
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I guess we'll see if it was a good move. Very risky to trade a Pro Bowl DT and get nothing immediately in return in this "win now" league.
I'd agree, but Jarvis Green has filled in for Seymour in 24 games over the last three years and done well. Ron Brace is also a kid who is being projected to start, right out of the gate. They have a lot of depth on the line that people don't know about.
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I'd agree, but Jarivs Green has filled in for Seymour in 34 games over the last three yeats and done well. Ron Brace is also a kid who is being projected to start, right out of the gate.
Doesn't this hurt their DT depth?
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Doesn't this hurt their DT depth?
I wont be able to answer that until the first few games pass. They look they they are going to run the 4/3 this year, and they have a lot of depth for that look. Warren, Wilfork, Brace, Adams, Wright and Burgess. Again, you wont know alot of these names right now.
I cant see Belichick letting Sey go if he didn't feel confident that he had the horses to get it done. He;s been very good with cutting the cord with players before they go on the back nine (aside from Bru).
But you're right, we'd be silly to think the Pats won't miss Sey. However, Brace and Green could better suit a four three look, you know?
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I wont be able to answer that until the first few games pass. They look they they are going to run the 4/3 this year, and they have a lot of depth for that look. Warren, Wilfork, Brace, Adams, Wright and Burgess. Again, you wont know alot of these names right now.
I cant see Belichick letting Sey go if he didn't feel confident that he had the horses to get it done. He;s been very good with cutting the cord with players before they go on the back nine (aside from Bru).
But you're right, we'd be silly to think the Pats won't miss Sey. However, Brace and Green could better suit a four three look, you know?
I don't really know anything about Brace and Green, so I'll defer to you, but seems like DT depth is even more important with a 4-3, where you start two DTs instead of one.
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I don't really know anything about Brace and Green, so I'll defer to you, but seems like DT depth is even more important with a 4-3, where you start two DTs instead of one.
Sey was a DE, so in a 4-3 he'd move to DT (which makes him less effective). Brace is a true 4-3 DT and Greene is a damn good DE. The DL depth is very deep. Pryor is another guy who is a legit DT option.
Where Sey could be missed is on running downs, since he tied up two blockers. However, Wilfork also calls for double teams, so if a guy like Brace is effective, it opens things up for a guy like Mayo. Don't forget, Sey is entering his tenth year. The pats would never have signed him for what he wanted at the end of the season.
If, if, if..
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i think brace is the future at that NT position
is he a true 4-3 dt? i dont see it.
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The Raiders are a really bad team. They looked terrible against the Saints.
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i think brace is the future at that NT position
is he a true 4-3 dt? i dont see it.
He's good at both. After watching him play inside with Pryor aside Warren and Wilfork, I think Brace will not only be able to spell Wilfork at times when they are in the 3/4, but play as a DT inside when the pats are in the 4/3.
The pats have A LOT of depth on the defensive line. Yes, Seymour will be missed, but you might be surprised how well guys step in. When Sey was out for months, Greene stepped in and got 8 sacks that year.
The pats will not be better this year because of this move, however they might be just as good and much better in the future.
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It's a business but you know that Seymour hates going to the Raiders
Thanks for the news I kept getting little of that news ...well if he wants to play in the 3-4 I'll take him.
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The Raiders are a really bad team. They looked terrible against the Saints.
I watched that game on the NFL network replay and the Raiders' starters looked shitty. Releasing Jeff Garcia was a huge mistake if the Raiders are looking to win at least 6 games this year.The Raiders are an awful organization. Al Davis is not in tune with today's NFL and what it takes to win. Jarmarcus Russell is going to be a huge bust, if not already. They draft horribly. But Mcfadden looks like he has loads of potential but he'll be gone as free agent in a few years, I'm sure.
Heyward-Bey has to be the biggest reach of a top ten pick in years. Speed is important in the NFL, but you have to have the total package and Bey is as raw as they come.
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He's a 3-4 end and the Raiders are 4-3 which may make him play in the middle. Which is an insult to ends.
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Cutthroat business.
Report: Seymour had issues to settle
ESPN.com news services
Richard Seymour said he was "blindsided" by his trade to the Oakland Raiders from the New England Patriots, the Boston Herald reported Saturday on its Web site.
Seymour, who was traded Sunday for a first-round draft pick in 2011, but had yet to join the Raiders, was due to board a flight to Oakland on Saturday, according to the report.
When Seymour did not show nearly a week after the trade, the Raiders on Friday sent him a five-day letter, stipulating that he report within five days or be suspended for the entire season and forfeit his $3.685 million salary.
AFC West blog
ESPN.com's Bill Williamson writes about all things AFC West in his division blog.
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Seymour said he made no contract demands as a condition of his joining the Raiders, but needed time to settle personal issues first, including where his family would live during the season, according to the report. He said he has been in contact with Raiders owner Al Davis and coach Tom Cable since the trade.
"I didn't demand anything to go there," he said, according to the report. "I'm happy to go there, and I told them that. But me and my family have never been separated. This was a difficult transition."
According to the report, Seymour, 30, learned he had been traded via a phone call from Patriots coach Bill Belichick.
"First of all, I was blindsided by this whole event," Seymour said, according to the Herald. "When you get blindsided, you should take a moment to gather your thoughts. I have a lot of personal issues more pressing than football."
Those issues, according to the report, were arranging for his wife and four children to move back to his home state of South Carolina, while he plans to live alone in Oakland during the season. Seymour is also the legal guardian of a 15-year-old cousin who was starting high school in Massachusetts.
Seymour plans to play in the Raiders' season opener on "Monday Night Football" against the San Diego Chargers. "I'll be the guy on top of the quarterback," he said, according to the report.
Seymour has been a stalwart in New England since being drafted sixth overall in 2001. He played on three Super Bowl winners with the Patriots, recording 39 career sacks and being selected to the Pro Bowl for five straight seasons beginning in 2002.
The Raiders were looking to upgrade a run defense that was the worst in the league during the exhibition season and has been the worst over the past six seasons. Since going to the Super Bowl following the 2002 season, Oakland has had the worst run defense in the NFL, allowing 141.7 yards per game on the ground and 122 touchdowns rushing.
"There are a lot of different emotions," Seymour said, according to the Herald. "Football was not my main concern at that point. I have had discussions with the Raiders. ... I'm excited and happy with the way they're looking at me."
Cable is expected to address Seymour's pending arrival after practice Saturday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4467177
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I wonder if the Pats felt "blindsided" in 2006 when he held out of camp for his contract extension and held up the pats pre-season plans. I don't feel bad for him at all. He makes millions to play a game. There are plenty of military people who make 40 grand year and they move their families all over the world. Shut up and move.
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I view this a little differently. If the man has a family and has been one of the best players on the team, and in the NFL, at least show him some loyalty and professional courtesy. He just became guardian of a 15-year-old cousin. He has other kids. His entire family has to move, right after school started. That's a huge change. They should have let him know something earlier in the summer so he could make plans for his family. They were likely shopping him for a while before the trade.
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I view this a little differently. If the man has a family and has been one of the best players on the team, and in the NFL, at least show him some loyalty and professional courtesy. He just became guardian of a 15-year-old cousin. He has other kids. His entire family has to move, right after school started. That's a huge change. They should have let him know something earlier in the summer so he could make plans for his family. They were likely shopping him for a while before the trade.
The pats were not shopping him. Have you read about how the trade went down? Oakland called NE and they offered the pick the day it happened. Oakland offered a second round pick for him when the Burgess trade went down, but the pats declined. Also, I take it you don't know much about how Seymour has acted over the years when it came to contracts and money. Read up on it a tad (2006 in particular) and see if your opinion changes at all. He's always been "all about the business". "It's a business" was basically his mantra in 2006 when he was holding out.
You're beef is with the NFL's trade policy (and the CBA's trade rules that THEY agreed to), not the Patriots. Shit, what are the Pats supposed to do if a team calls them and offers up a first round draft choice for a guy that they cant resign? A thirty year old DE who is on the decline. Say no thanks because they'd have to break it to Sey at least a month in advance. It's not realistic. The pats are as good as they are because they always do whats best for the team. They don't hang on to guys to long. It's a business with players until the balls not in their court, then they all want loyalty.
I understand where you are coming form, but after hearing Richard tell Pats fan's that all his demands over the years were "nothing personal" and it was "just business", I don't really feel sorry for him and his millions that he will make this year.
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The pats were not shopping him. Have you read about how the trade went down? Oakland called NE and they offered the pick the day it happened. Oakland offered a second round pick for him when the Burgess trade went down, but the pats declined. Also, I take it you don't know much about how Seymour has acted over the years when it came to contracts and money. Read up on it a tad (2006 in particular) and see if your opinion changes at all. He's always been "all about the business". "It's a business" was basically his mantra in 2006 when he was holding out.
You're beef is with the NFL's trade policy (and the CBA's trade rules that THEY agreed to), not the Patriots. Shit, what are the Pats supposed to do if a team calls them and offers up a first round draft choice for a guy that they cant resign? A thirty year old DE who is on the decline. Say no thanks because they'd have to break it to Sey at least a month in advance. It's not realistic. The pats are as good as they are because they always do whats best for the team. They don't hang on to guys to long. It's a business with players until the balls not in their court, then they all want loyalty.
I understand where you are coming form, but after hearing Richard tell Pats fan's that all his demands over the years were "nothing personal" and it was "just business", I don't really feel sorry for him and his millions that he will make this year.
I read an article and it sure doesn't sound like it was "just business":
Dissatisfied with his contract last spring, Seymour skipped much of the Patriots' early offseason workouts. The two sides subsequently worked out their differences, with the Patriots enhancing the 2005 portion of his existing contract and essentially promising to pursue a long-term extension.
"I always thought that good things come to those who wait anyway," Seymour said during a conference call.
"At the end of the day, when I lay my head down I want to be happy," he added. "You can have all the money in the world and not be happy."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2406619
But even if he had considered this "just business," it is bad business pratice to trade a Pro Bowl player with really no on or off-the-field issues with no notice whatsoever, when that player has a family like Seymour.
I'm sure it's possible the Raiders just called the Pats out of the blue and made this deal happen in one day, but I don't believe it.
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I've been watching Seymour since he came into the NFL. First, the article you posted does not tell the whole story. Seymour decided that he was unhappy with a contract that he had signed, so he didn't show up for his obligations (camp). What if the pats decided that they were unhappy with Seymours numbers in 2006, and they held out on the pay that they promised him? Would the two sides work towards a new deal that would lower Seymours pay? Second, Seymour had a "this is a business" attitude from day one. Look into 2006 for more info, I'm not going to do it for you : )
The Boston globe and Mike Reiss said the Oakland Raidars offered a deal the pats could not refuse on short notice to the Patriots. It don't get much More credible than that. Believe what you want, but thats what happened and what every major new outlet is reporting in Boston.
So the pats decide to trade Seymour and Belichick calls Seymour to tell him the news. What do you want him to do, refuse a top ten pick for a 30 year old player who's past his prime? It's not like the pats did it to screw the guy over. In business sometimes you make tough choices and this was one of them. Had belichick not called Richard and had the NFL's policy not been 5 days to report, you might have had a point.
I read an article and it sure doesn't sound like it was "just business":
Dissatisfied with his contract last spring, Seymour skipped much of the Patriots' early offseason workouts. The two sides subsequently worked out their differences, with the Patriots enhancing the 2005 portion of his existing contract and essentially promising to pursue a long-term extension.
"I always thought that good things come to those who wait anyway," Seymour said during a conference call.
"At the end of the day, when I lay my head down I want to be happy," he added. "You can have all the money in the world and not be happy."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2406619
But even if he had considered this "just business," it is bad business pratice to trade a Pro Bowl player with really no on or off-the-field issues with no notice whatsoever, when that player has a family like Seymour.
I'm sure it's possible the Raiders just called the Pats out of the blue and made this deal happen in one day, but I don't believe it.
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I've been watching Seymour since he came into the NFL. First, the article you posted does not tell the whole story. Seymour decided that he was unhappy with a contract that he had signed, so he didn't show up for his obligations (camp). What if the pats decided that they were unhappy with Seymours numbers in 2006, and they held out on the pay that they promised him? Would the two sides work towards a new deal that would lower Seymours pay? Second, Seymour had a "this is a business" attitude from day one. Look into 2006 for more info, I'm not going to do it for you : )
The Boston globe and Mike Reiss said the Oakland Raidars offered a deal the pats could not refuse on short notice to the Patriots. It don't get much More credible than that. Believe what you want, but thats what happened and what every major new outlet is reporting in Boston.
So the pats decide to trade Seymour and Belichick calls Seymour to tell him the news. What do you want him to do, refuse a top ten pick for a 30 year old player who's past his prime? It's not like the pats did it to screw the guy over. In business sometimes you make tough choices and this was one of them. Had belichick not called Richard and had the NFL's policy not been 5 days to report, you might have had a point.
I'm not going to go searching for three-year old articles to prove your point. If you want me to read a link or two I will, but I've already looked at one (that I found). It's your contention that he had a "this is just business" attitude, not mine.
But that's really not my point. It doesn't matter if he viewed this is as just business, that doesn't justify the team using bad business practices.
I have no factual basis to argue that the trade didn't happen as Reiss et al. are reporting. I just find it hard to believe that the Raiders called the Pats out of the blue to make an offer on a player who neither the team nor the player indicated (publicly) wanted out, was having problems, etc. I suspect much of these discussions take place behind closed doors and are often weeks or months in the making.