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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on September 18, 2009, 05:51:56 AM
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Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care
Stephen Dinan (Contact)
www.washingtontimes.com
President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.
He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.
"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.
Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."
Republicans said that amounts to an amnesty, calling it a backdoor effort to make sure current illegal immigrants get health care.
"It is ironic that the president told the American people that illegal immigrants should not be covered by the health care bill, but now just days later he's talking about letting them in the back door," said Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the top Republican on the Judiciary Committee.
"If the American people do not want to provide government health care for illegal immigrants, why would they support giving them citizenship, the highest honor America can bestow?" Mr. Smith said.
But immigrant rights groups see the speech as a signal that Mr. Obama is committed to providing health care coverage for anyone in the United States legally, regardless of their citizenship status.
"It's the first time I've certainly heard, publicly, him talking more about legal immigrants," said Eric Rodriguez, vice president for research and advocacy at the National Council of La Raza (NCLR). "I think that was certainly positive progress. We were absolutely concerned about not hearing that."
On Wednesday, hours before Mr. Obama's speech, the NCLR had given the administration a public scolding, demanding that Mr. Obama needed to make "a public commitment ... to ensure that those who are here legally are covered."
A White House spokesman did not respond to questions about where the White House would make the cutoff for eligibility, and Mr. Rodriguez said he's still waiting for an answer from the administration.
"We don't know where they mean to draw the line," he said. "Our biggest concern is that most people don't realize legal immigrants are currently barred from receiving health care benefits for the first five years in the country."
Under the 1996 welfare overhaul, most federal aid programs are restricted to citizens and legal immigrants who have been in the country for at least five years. Democrats have tried this year to chip away at that rule.
Immigration has dogged Mr. Obama in the health care debate. Rep. Joe Wilson, South Carolina Republican, shouted, "You lie," when the president, in an address to Congress last week, said his plans wouldn't cover illegal immigrants.
Lawmakers - who got an earful from constituents back home during August - have insisted on extra checks to make sure illegal immigrants do not have access to taxpayer-funded programs.
Senators have worked on language that would prevent illegal immigrants from buying insurance through a proposed insurance exchange envisioned in the health care reform package.
But the NCLR said that could lead to situations where some members of a family would be covered and others, including children of illegal immigrants, wouldn't be.
Mr. Obama said legalizing illegal immigrants is a way to take the sting out of the entire issue.
But Republicans said by pushing to legalize illegal immigrants, Mr. Obama is signaling that those here illegally eventually will get access to taxpayer-funded benefits.
Still, the push to pass a legalization bill is beginning to gain steam, even as advocates fret that the White House is moving too slowly.
On Thursday, Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez, Illinois Democrat and an outspoken advocate for legalization, agreed to take leadership in writing a new, more generous bill.
"We simply cannot wait any longer for a bill that keeps our families together, protects our workers and allows a pathway to legalization for those who have earned it," Mr. Gutierrez said. "Saying immigration is a priority for this administration or this Congress is not the same as seeing tangible action, and the longer we wait, the more every single piece of legislation we debate will be obstructed by our failure to pass comprehensive reform."
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I said this the day after that lie filled speech Obama gave, and guess what? Joe Wilson was proven right. More lies from Obama.
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In that article it siad nothing about legalizing them, only:
Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."
It's the repubs saying it's backdoor, "resolving the issue" is quite open to interpretation.
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In that article it siad nothing about legalizing them, only:
Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."
It's the repubs saying it's backdoor, "resolving the issue" is quite open to interpretation.
Come on Bro, lets be real. We all know whats going on here. He will say the bill excludes illegal aliens, but once they are legal, they will be covered by thwe taxpayer footing the bill.
This is just another lie, deception, and "dont pay attention to the man behind the curtain" routine.
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Maybe 333...that may be the intent, but I don't see it plainly stated in that article.
Nevertheless, there is real concern and question about the status of illegal and newly legal immigrants with regards to healthcare. The fact that the left blamed Wilson's outburst on racism is coming from left field with zero evidence to substantiate it. Thats crap. Some people, including Wilson, think illegals may have access to gov healthcare if there is not a more stringent check system (which the dems voted down previously).
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Come on Bro, lets be real. We all know whats going on here. He will say the bill excludes illegal aliens, but once they are legal, they will be covered by thwe taxpayer footing the bill.
This is just another lie, deception, and "dont pay attention to the man behind the curtain" routine.
He knows that the American public will not support "just making" 12 mill--and it's alot more than that automatic citizens. And what about those in limbo, those on expired Visas, it would be such a tangled mess. And then, the slipperly slope happens, by making a person a "automatic citizens", there are are other things that that person wants, like everything in their language, everything catered to me, so that I don't have to come out of my community---so that I can segregate myself from the others, then establish pockets, next states....and then Ah, possibly Civil War between, English speaking states and Spanish, kinda like liek the Slave States versus the the free states...
Give a Inch, you will fall a Mile
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Maybe 333...that may be the intent, but I don't see it plainly stated in that article.
Nevertheless, there is real concern and question about the status of illegal and newly legal immigrants with regards to healthcare. The fact that the left blamed Wilson's outburst on racism is coming from left field with zero evidence to substantiate it. Thats crap. Some people, including Wilson, think illegals may have access to gov healthcare if there is not a more stringent check system (which the dems voted down previously).
Here is Obamas quote:
Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.
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Obama is not dumb enough to admit that since he knows he will lose the fools who actually still believe his lies. I dont need to name names around here.
What does this quote say to you? If you take the two sentences together it makes perfect sense.
Unless there is explicit language put into the bill that newly minted citizens or those given amnesty will be specifically excluded, they will be covered as soon as this plan and amnesty go through. Additionally, these newly minted citizens will sue under the 14th amendment for coverage and will win if they are excluded from the plan.
Obama is shrewd and knows what he is doing. He cant do amnesty first and he knows it.
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33,
ANY president is going to try amnesty for the illegals. Bush, mccain, and yes, even palin, should she win in 2012 or 2016.
(Although I don't think 2016 is an option - once she starts to look older, the milf factor goes away and repubs stop thinking with their boner and start looking for qualified candidates)
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33,
ANY president is going to try amnesty for the illegals. Bush, mccain, and yes, even palin, should she win in 2012 or 2016.
(Although I don't think 2016 is an option - once she starts to look older, the milf factor goes away and repubs stop thinking with their boner and start looking for qualified candidates)
Just as the McCain/Bush/Kennedy/Graham amnesty was defeated, so will the Obama/McCain amnesty be defeated.
Its simply ridiclous to add to the employment situation by minting millions of new citizens to compete with existing citizens who cant find work.
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Just as the McCain/Bush/Kennedy/Graham amnesty was defeated, so will the Obama/McCain amnesty be defeated.
maybe. economy bad, which leans toward no amnesty. however, hispanic voters are a big deal. They're not gonna be a big factor in 2010, as mid-term elections are mostly old people and R's do great. But in 2012, hispanic vote is gonna make/break who wins. They showed up big time for Obama in 08. Maybe they wait til 2011 to suck up to hispanic voters?
Its simply ridiclous to add to the employment situation by minting millions of new citizens to compete with existing citizens who cant find work.
agreed.
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maybe. economy bad, which leans toward no amnesty. however, hispanic voters are a big deal. They're not gonna be a big factor in 2010, as mid-term elections are mostly old people and R's do great. But in 2012, hispanic vote is gonna make/break who wins. They showed up big time for Obama in 08. Maybe they wait til 2011 to suck up to hispanic voters?
agreed.
As you have just said in simple terms is the reason I FUCKING HATE POLITICIANS!
Why is amnesty even an option? Lets see the first act of a person in America is to break the law, lets reward them for that ::)
I keep seeing the same thing over and over, we have to reform immigration, why? I think it should be fucking hard to get into America, that you have to be able to offer something to this country before you get in.
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amnesty is stupid, I think most of us agree on that.
If you don't want to alientate hispanic voters, fine, don't kick the illegals out. But purposely making them legal to kiss their ass further = not cool. And both parties will do it. The R's will do it because they dont want them dems calling them the party that hates brown people. Given the probable higher % of an illegal getting food stamps or welfare (once made legal), it's a great move for dems. All the R's can do is say "me too!" and hope they don't lose *that many* new votes).
This is all about getting ppl to show up in the booths.
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Maybe 333...that may be the intent, but I don't see it plainly stated in that article.
Nevertheless, there is real concern and question about the status of illegal and newly legal immigrants with regards to healthcare. The fact that the left blamed Wilson's outburst on racism is coming from left field with zero evidence to substantiate it. Thats crap. Some people, including Wilson, think illegals may have access to gov healthcare if there is not a more stringent check system (which the dems voted down previously).
I didn't see it either but that won't stop 333 and people like him from "seeing" it and being outraged
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I didn't see it either but that won't stop 333 and people like him from "seeing" it and being outraged
STRAW:
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Here's the quote you've highlighted.
The salient text is "I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else"
When that quote goes through the brain of a nut like you it comes out at as: "I want to legalize illegals"
He didn't say anything of the kind but of course you think it OBVIOUS what he really means right?
Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.
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Here's the quote you've highlighted.
The salient text is "I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else"
When that quote goes through the brain of a nut like you it comes out at as: "I want to legalize illegals"
He didn't say anything of the kind but of course you think it OBVIOUS what he really means right?
Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.
However, he has already promised amnesty to illegal aliens and La Raza on numerous occasions. You cant ignore that fact in that qoute.
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amnesty is stupid, I think most of us agree on that.
If you don't want to alientate hispanic voters, fine, don't kick the illegals out. But purposely making them legal to kiss their ass further = not cool. And both parties will do it. The R's will do it because they dont want them dems calling them the party that hates brown people. Given the probable higher % of an illegal getting food stamps or welfare (once made legal), it's a great move for dems. All the R's can do is say "me too!" and hope they don't lose *that many* new votes).
This is all about getting ppl to show up in the booths.
And make it seem like they are doing those same people a favor in the process...A "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine", but you don't really know, that you are really scratching both our backs.
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at the very least he is playing both sides and telling each what they want to hear...at the very worst he is indeed planning on moving toward amnesty
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However, he has already promised amnesty to illegal aliens and La Raza on numerous occasions. You cant ignore that fact in that qoute.
that "fact" is not in that quote and given your weird interpretations of almost everything I'd need to see the quote you're talking about.
does amnesty = legal or is it some other fuzzy designation? Obama can't even get a decent health care bill so I'm not losing any sleep that the guy trimming the trees in my backyard is going to get some healthcare (which he'll have to pay for like everyone else)
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at the very least he is playing both sides and telling each what they want to hear...at the very worst he is indeed planning on moving toward amnesty
He wants amnesty this year. Check out the third clip.
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Its all about votes Straw.
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that "fact" is not in that quote and given your weird interpretations of almost everything I'd need to see the quote you're talking about.
straw 333's interpretation isnt a leap of logic if you read what he said or have listened to him in the past.
Problem is you want indisputable proof but then act suprised like you got hit in the face with it...
Dont think that if an incident happens that lends itself to push their agenda amnesty, gun control etc. they wont do it just like they did with the porkulus bill.
you need me to play that famous clip of rahm again?
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Kind of confused here.
Obama didn't lie... Also, almost everyone believes there should be immigration reform.
You don't believe there should be?
It's pretty widely believed that the immigration system is, in fact, broken.
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Kind of confused here.
Obama didn't lie... Also, almost everyone believes there should be immigration reform.
You don't believe there should be?
It's pretty widely believed that the immigration system is, in fact, broken.
LOL not to get off topic here but what govt system isnt broken?
why would we want yet another govt system that runs healthcare?
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Yes - we need reform. We need to make it easier to become a citizen, but not ease the requirements. We need to deport any and all illegals convicted of a felony. We need to forbid the anchor baby situation like Canada did. We need to cut off all the ESL garbage as well.
However, Obama is playing word games like always to unsspecting people who dont know how to put two or three sentences together in their collective context.
Re-read the quote highlighted in red. What does that tell you?
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Yes - we need reform. We need to make it easier to become a citizen, but not ease the requirements. We need to deport any and all illegals convicted of a felony. We need to forbid the anchor baby situation like Canada did. We need to cut off all the ESL garbage as well.
However, Obama is playing word games like always to unsspecting people who dont know how to put two or three sentences together in their collective context.
Re-read the quote highlighted in red. What does that tell you?
It tells me he believes legalized citizens of this country should have healthcare.
It doesn't tell you that?
It also says that Obama believes that it should be easier to become a legal immigrant of this country.
Maybe you're reading words that I'm not.
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It tells me he believes legalized citizens of this country should have healthcare.
It doesn't tell you that?
It also says that Obama believes that it should be easier to become a legal immigrant of this country.
Maybe you're reading words that I'm not.
Yes. And once they are legal they will have access to govt health care. So he solves the issue of illegals not getting health care very easily - MAKE THEM LEGAL.
This is a disgrace and an outrage to think that a border jumper in the stroke a pen will have access to the same health care you will considering the fact that you have been paying taxes your whole life and that asshole paid a coyote $$$ and hopped a fence.
Its a disgrace.
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He wants amnesty this year. Check out the third clip.
I watched the last clip two time and I didn't hear anything that would connect the dots that he's going to give blanket amnesty and free health care to illegal aliens. He did talk about working on reforms including fixing the problem on our borders but it's a leap of imagination to say he's suggesting he want to"Legalize illegals to get them healthcare" as your title of this thread says
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Wrong. HE never once mentioned making illegals legal. The system itself needs to be fixed, there are many issues with it. Such as IRS giving tax numbers to illegals who pay taxes (around 50% pay taxes by the way so using that thought the rest would likely pay taxes if they were granted legal status but that's for another thread)
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Straw - do you really think Obama would ever admit that in public?
He is certainly not that naive.
This is about votes and ensuring a win in 2012, and nothing else.
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Wrong. HE never once mentioned making illegals legal. The system itself needs to be fixed, there are many issues with it. Such as IRS giving tax numbers to illegals who pay taxes (around 50% pay taxes by the way so using that thought the rest would likely pay taxes if they were granted legal status but that's for another thread)
He has stated many times he wants amnesty in the first year.
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He has stated many times he wants amnesty in the first year.
He hasn't said for whom, it could be for those undocumented workers who pay taxes. I would be all for that. Wouldn't you? They pay taxes and see nothing out of it, no social security, etc that to me signals they will be productive members of america.
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Straw - do you really think Obama would ever admit that in public?
He is certainly not that naive.
This is about votes and ensuring a win in 2012, and nothing else.
oh - ok
I see where you're coming from now.
you just "know" what he really intends
gotcha
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oh - ok
I see where you're coming from now.
you just "know" what he really intends
gotcha
Let me put this in terms you can understand because you are mesmerized by this fraud.
Do you really think GWB would ever have admitted to going to war with Iraq solely for oil and to aggrandize his friends who are govt contractors?
Of course not. Its the same thing.
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Let me put this in terms you can understand because you are mesmerized by this fraud.
Do you really think GWB would ever have admitted to going to war with Iraq solely for oil and to aggrandize his friends who are govt contractors?
Of course not. Its the same thing.
you think that's the same
tell me how Obama will benefit from your concept that he wants to "Legalize illegals to get them healthcare"
will he benefit directly, will some corporate ally benefit, will his friends benefit?
what's the motivation?
btw - at the current rate he's not going to help anyone get healthcare
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you think that's the same
tell me how Obama will benefit from your concept that he wants to "Legalize illegals to get them healthcare"
will he benefit directly, will some corporate ally benefit, will his friends benefit?
what's the motivation?
btw - at the current rate he's not going to help anyone get healthcare
VOTES!
Can you imagine the electoral impact of 12-20 million new voters and their families?
2012 would be guaranteed for him.
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VOTES!
Can you imagine the electoral impact of 12-20 million new voters and their families?
2012 would be guaranteed for him.
Ok - you need to flesh out our CT's so we all can understand
so it's all a scam to get votes in 2012
he didn't seem to need them in 2008 so why would he need an elaborate scheme to "legalize them and get them health care" to get votes in 2012?
Shit, if he just fixed healthcare he'd have all the votes he needed from people that are already citizens.
I'm not buying it
Do you have any other theories?
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Straw, I agree that 333 is making an interpretation, but there are many on the far left who want blanket legalization of illegals so they can attract more people to the democratic party. Hispanics are a huge voting block. Actually, I think more hispanic families are conservative in their actual beliefs, but both parties are going to reach out as much as possible.
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kc, if you think 50% of illegal immigrants in this country pay taxes, you're drinking the coolaid.
Many illegals work under the table in service and labor sectors. Many small companies avoid taxes by not reporting them and are able to pay illegals less. We are missing taxation at the company and individual levels. Just like how many independent plummers, Heating/Air Conditioning, electricians, landscapers, carpenders, etc are reporting all $ made on small jobs. Its way under-reported. Even in farming, you think crop pickers are all paying taxes?
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Why is his plan a "scheme"?
It's called smart politics. You dumbasses call 333 a CT wack job merely because he's connecting the dots for you lamebrain Obama cheerleaders.
A+B=C
Agenda, ideology and reelection are the names of the game. From the confirmation of Sotamayor, to the reconfiguration of the census, legalizing what will turn into 20 million votes and nearly all hispanic votes, making the upper crust of the country pay the way of the less productive members of society= All Brilliant politics to keep the democrats in Power and help Obama get re-elected.
Obviously Obama is not going to come right out and say what he intends to do--- DUH
When Bush wanted to massively expand the powers of the government in the war on terror, did he come out and say-"Hey everyone, I'll be personally wiretapping US citizens without a warrant." Of course not. He used a vague and deliberate pre-text coupled with a legitimate crisis ( 911) to do so, and it worked.
Obama's actions are predicated on the same formula Bush followed after 911-- The economy is used as a springboard to further all the programs, reforms, and changes that are consistent with the lefts agenda. I have been saying this for almost a year and nobody is paying attention.
You guys really need to take a few classes in political science, read a few books, or just wise up.
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We don't need immigration reform. We need to enforce the laws on the books.
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so it's all a scam to get votes in 2012
he didn't seem to need them in 2008 so why would he need an elaborate scheme to "legalize them and get them health care" to get votes in 2012?
Outside of the conversation at hand, do you really believe that voters feel the same way right now? Of course he'd need votes.
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Exactly Grape-
Based on Straws flawless logic, because the republicans didn't need X votes from X voters in 1857, why would they need them in 2012, 2014 or in the year 3000?
When you expand your base by 20 million people and pander to the 50 million+ hispanic voters that are already in the country legally, you create a bloc with the largest minority group in the country.
Why would the democrats need the guaranteed votes of 70 million people? Geesh. I can't figure it out. It really is a mystery. ::)
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Exactly Grape-
Based on Straws flawless logic, because the republicans didn't need X votes from X voters in 1857, why would they need them in 2012, 2014 or in the year 3000?
When you expand your base by 20 million people and pander to the 50 million+ hispanic voters that are already in the country legally, you create a bloc with the largest minority group in the country.
Why would the democrats need the guaranteed votes of 70 million people? Geesh. I can't figure it out. It really is a mystery. ::)
My posts on this are not CT at all. They are common sense to anyone honest enough to admit the obvious.
Straw - you cant look at things in a vacuum on this. You have to look at everything as a whole to see what is going on, and it is obvious. He is not going to say publicly what he wants to do because he knows there will be a bi-partisan rebellion against him. Thus, he needs to play word games and hide his true agenda and use terms and catch phrases that although maybe not lies at that moment, are ommissions of other pertinent facts that uninformed people are unaware of.
Obama neads health care first because YES it is his Waterloo. If health care fails, so does everything else. cap 7 Trade, card check, amnesty, etc.
He simply cant engage in talks of amnesty before health care because if he did, he would get neither. By doing health care, then followed by amnesty, he at least has a chance to get one of the two. The other way he would get none of the two and would piss off hispanics to the point they will stay home in 2012.
Do you not understand what is going on here?
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When you expand your base by 20 million people and pander to the 50 million+ hispanic voters that are already in the country legally, you create a bloc with the largest minority group in the country.
great point. Obama is pretty much printing voter registration cards with a "D" on them.
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Why is his plan a "scheme"?
It's called smart politics. You dumbasses call 333 a CT wack job merely because he's connecting the dots for you lamebrain Obama cheerleaders.
A+B=C
Agenda, ideology and reelection are the names of the game. From the confirmation of Sotamayor, to the reconfiguration of the census, legalizing what will turn into 20 million votes and nearly all hispanic votes, making the upper crust of the country pay the way of the less productive members of society= All Brilliant politics to keep the democrats in Power and help Obama get re-elected.
Obviously Obama is not going to come right out and say what he intends to do--- DUH
When Bush wanted to massively expand the powers of the government in the war on terror, did he come out and say-"Hey everyone, I'll be personally wiretapping US citizens without a warrant." Of course not. He used a vague and deliberate pre-text coupled with a legitimate crisis ( 911) to do so, and it worked.
Obama's actions are predicated on the same formula Bush followed after 911-- The economy is used as a springboard to further all the programs, reforms, and changes that are consistent with the lefts agenda. I have been saying this for almost a year and nobody is paying attention.
You guys really need to take a few classes in political science, read a few books, or just wise up.
I understand what you are saying, but that slippery slope, if this comes to pass, he's setting up America for a 1861 Redux, anybody can see that. Plus when you give people who break the law a reason to break the some more and or demand more things---chaos. Then those people who were illegal lose the benefits that they have when they were not citizens, and realize that there are now consequences for their actions, more chaos. And what about the next wave of Second Class Citizens--when they see the way to get their way is to illegally cross the borders, stay here and do menial jobs and be exploited--excuse me, more 21st century Slavery, then that will happen again.
Don't we learn from our own History, oops, well, we're talking about Americans aren't we?
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when they see the way to get their way is to illegally cross the borders, stay here and do menial jobs and be exploited--excuse me, more 21st century Slavery, then that will happen again.
How exactly do you come up with slavery? No one if forcing people to come into this country illegally, no one buying or selling illegals and forcing them to work. They come to the US of their own free will, and if they think they are being exploited the turn around head back to where ever they came from.
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How exactly do you come up with slavery? No one if forcing people to come into this country illegally, no one buying or selling illegals and forcing them to work. They come to the US of their own free will, and if they think they are being exploited the turn around head back to where ever they came from.
I do agree to an extent.
They are "kind of" being exploited... but it's certainly not slavery. Everyone who comes to this country even to take the most menial job will do so because they will undoubtedly be doing better financially then they would have in their own home.
Do they get paid lower, sure, but they are willing to do so and it is most assuredly not a requirement that they come into this country. They do it of their own free will.
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I do agree to an extent.
They are "kind of" being exploited... but it's certainly not slavery. Everyone who comes to this country even to take the most menial job will do so because they will undoubtedly be doing better financially then they would have in their own home.
Do they get paid lower, sure, but they are willing to do so and it is most assuredly not a requirement that they come into this country. They do it of their own free will.
They do this so they can come here, use our services, squat wherever they can, and send money home to build a house down there.
They dont want to be citizens. They want to work for cash to send home.
Many have two wives and their kids here get all sorts of benes, etc and cost us a fortune.
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They do this so they can come here, use our services, squat wherever they can, and send money home to build a house down there.
They dont want to be citizens. They want to work for cash to send home.
Many have two wives and their kids here get all sorts of benes, etc and cost us a fortune.
That's very much not true. Especially the 2 wives part of it. Where the hell do you even get this stuff?
Some don't want to be citizens, sure... but the vast majority do. The system is very flawed.
You do realize the offset of you paying for a few illegals is that your oranges aren't 40bucks for 3 right?
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kc, if you think 50% of illegal immigrants in this country pay taxes, you're drinking the coolaid.
Many illegals work under the table in service and labor sectors. Many small companies avoid taxes by not reporting them and are able to pay illegals less. We are missing taxation at the company and individual levels. Just like how many independent plummers, Heating/Air Conditioning, electricians, landscapers, carpenders, etc are reporting all $ made on small jobs. Its way under-reported. Even in farming, you think crop pickers are all paying taxes?
Check with the IRS they produce tax numbers of undocumented workers to pay taxes. around 50% of the total illegal alien group pays some form of tax to the IRS. Look into it if you want. You don't need a green card to pay taxes.
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I understand what you are saying, but that slippery slope, if this comes to pass, he's setting up America for a 1861 Redux, anybody can see that. Plus when you give people who break the law a reason to break the some more and or demand more things---chaos. Then those people who were illegal lose the benefits that they have when they were not citizens, and realize that there are now consequences for their actions, more chaos. And what about the next wave of Second Class Citizens--when they see the way to get their way is to illegally cross the borders, stay here and do menial jobs and be exploited--excuse me, more 21st century Slavery, then that will happen again.
Don't we learn from our own History, oops, well, we're talking about Americans aren't we?
You're correct. However, thats the game. How or why do you think the original underbelly of this country (next to blacks of course) were indoctrinated as democrats from the moment they stepped off the boat at Ellis island? The irish, italians, russians, polish etc. are the reason why for the greater part of half a century major cities were and still are democratic hotbeds. The difference is that for the most part, those individuals came to this country legally. While every major group that has immigrated to the US has been discriminated against, Mexicans are the first ( that I can think of) group that has wielded significant political clout to the extent that there has been serious efforts made by the President of the US and Congress to enact legislation wholly intended to benefit them. Whereas in the past immigrints were expected to learn english, pay their own way, etc.-- America is assimiliating to the Mexicans. Part of this is because in terms of sheer numbers, they are a sizable portion of the US population. But keep in mind that as you grow in numbers, so does your power and political currency. Obama and the democrats want to take advanatage of the situation and its understandable.
Also think of it this way-- The democrats in many respects are hedging their bets. Suppose the economy doesn't improve substantially, but healthcare passes and the illegals become legal. Obama keeps his far left base, all the blacks, all the hispanics+ 20 million new voters and turns what should be a republican landslide into a very contentious election.
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That's very much not true. Especially the 2 wives part of it. Where the hell do you even get this stuff?
Some don't want to be citizens, sure... but the vast majority do. The system is very flawed.
You do realize the offset of you paying for a few illegals is that your oranges aren't 40bucks for 3 right?
I worked for a Fencing Contractor for 10 years and worked with illegals from Guatamala. I know their scams and schemes far more than you do.
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I worked for a Fencing Contractor for 10 years and worked with illegals from Guatamala. I know their scams and schemes far more than you do.
Oh yes because a small sample you worked with relates to the whole country.
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Oh yes because a small sample you worked with relates to the whole country.
The methods and things they do are what most illegal aliens do.
They dont want to be citizens. They work for cash to send home. Why do you think they protest any time Western Union raises wire transfer prices?
Do you know what Mexico's no. 2 source of national income is? Take a deep guess?
They drop a kid here and all of a sudden, the taxpayer is on the hook for everything. Many lead dual lives, one south of the border, and the other up here.
BTW - your claim about paying taxes is nonsense. Many claim dependents from kids in Mexico and claim the EITC and actually get money back.
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I worked for a Fencing Contractor for 10 years and worked with illegals from Guatamala. I know their scams and schemes far more than you do.
Yes, apparently you are deeply involved in my life and have extensive knowledge about what I've lived and seen.
::)
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Yes, apparently you are deeply involved in my life and have extensive knowledge about what I've lived and seen.
::)
Are you an illegal alien?
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That's very much not true. Especially the 2 wives part of it. Where the hell do you even get this stuff?
Some don't want to be citizens, sure... but the vast majority do. The system is very flawed.
You do realize the offset of you paying for a few illegals is that your oranges aren't 40bucks for 3 right?
Tu, many of the men from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatamala have wives back home, but they are living with a woman here that they claim is their wife. They are not legally married, but he claims that female as his wife, or as many call it, a "domestic partner" . I had a person that had been living in the US illegally for 10 plus yrs, and had teenage kids in his other country. He stabbed the woman he was livig with and he said, "I can do that, she is my wife, I can do whatever i want", wich is a interesting segway...Because many of those people from said countries get what they want, and come here by breaking the law, they feel that they should not have to conform to state's laws, they act like they were in their old country.
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Tu, many of the men from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatamala have wives back home, but they are living with a woman here that they claim is their wife. They are not legally married, but he claims that female as his wife, or as many call it, a "domestic partner" . I had a person that had been living in the US illegally for 10 plus yrs, and had teenage kids in his other country. He stabbed the woman he was livig with and he said, "I can do that, she is my wife, I can do whatever i want", wich is a interesting segway...Because many of those people from said countries get what they want, and come here by breaking the law, they feel that they should not have to conform to state's laws, they act like they were in their old country.
They may claim they are their wives... but let's be honest here. They are catholic and as such are not permitted to truly have two wives.
The catholic church recognizes that as bigomy and that in no way connected to being legal or illegal in regards to immigration. They may be shitbags, but they certainly don't have "two wives".
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Tu, many of the men from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatamala have wives back home, but they are living with a woman here that they claim is their wife. They are not legally married, but he claims that female as his wife, or as many call it, a "domestic partner" . I had a person that had been living in the US illegally for 10 plus yrs, and had teenage kids in his other country. He stabbed the woman he was livig with and he said, "I can do that, she is my wife, I can do whatever i want", wich is a interesting segway...Because many of those people from said countries get what they want, and come here by breaking the law, they feel that they should not have to conform to state's laws, they act like they were in their old country.
How many times have you heard that phrase "in my country" while they complain about the USA?
They dont want to be US citizens. Their loyalties are to their home countries. They are here for benes and cash to send home and little else.
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How many times have you heard that phrase "in my country" while they complain about the USA?
They dont want to be US citizens. Their loyalties are to their home countries. They are here for benes and cash to send home and little else.
I'll be honest... I really don't here a lot of people say "In My country". The ones that do say it around me are all legal citizens of the US. Maybe it's just who you talk to. It's not who I talk to though.
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I'll be honest... I really don't here a lot of people say "In My country". The ones that do say it around me are all legal citizens of the US. Maybe it's just who you talk to. It's not who I talk to though.
Lately - dominicans who are here illegally.
i have had to get a few out of jail for serious crap. The court system just lets em out. i had one guy beat up a air traffic controller at LaGuardia AP and they found him with cocaine on him. He got 3 months of anger management. No ICE, nothing.
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Straw, I agree that 333 is making an interpretation, but there are many on the far left who want blanket legalization of illegals so they can attract more people to the democratic party. Hispanics are a huge voting block. Actually, I think more hispanic families are conservative in their actual beliefs, but both parties are going to reach out as much as possible.
I don't know if this statement is true
what is the definition of the "far left"?
I know I'm not far left and neither are any of my friends
I think the USA has a fat midsection of centrists on most issues
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They may claim they are their wives... but let's be honest here. They are catholic and as such are not permitted to truly have two wives.
The catholic church recognizes that as bigomy and that in no way connected to being legal or illegal in regards to immigration. They may be shitbags, but they certainly don't have "two wives".
of course, I was told by someone of another country, that "El Salvadorians don't marry the women they are with", this of course is probably cultural bias.
But I can tell you, dude will tell me, "I live with my wife", where is your wife, I say, she is in ______ (not the US). So this woman you are living with is not your wife, "No", do you have kids with this person, "Yes", so she is your girlfriend, not your wife, "Yes" .
This has happened more times than I can count. They say "My Wife", because they are living with this woman, like a wife. They of course don't put a ring on it. And as i said they will have a US "wife" and family here, but legally married in another coutry, with kids there. Catholic or not, there Catholicism by practice and Catholicism by "word". ;)
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I don't know if this statement is true
what is the definition of the "far left"?
I know I'm not far left and neither are any of my friends
I think the USA has a fat midsection of centrists on most issues
LOL you are a far left save the world, greenpeace, no trans fats, amnesty for illegals, affirmative action supporting surrender monkey. You are far left my friend. Hate to break the news to you. Lacking in self awareness is also a common character trait amongst the far left as well.
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LOL you are a far left save the world, greenpeace, no trans fats, amnesty for illegals, affirmative action supporting surrender monkey. You are far left my friend. Hate to break the news to you. Lacking in self awareness is also a common character trait amongst the far left as well.
think whatever you'd like.
I'm center left on most issues with a streak of libertarian.
from my perspective you appear to be just another dumbfounded dipshit on a message board