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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on September 27, 2009, 08:43:15 AM
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September 27, 2009
Obama At War With His General
By Ruben Navarrette
SAN DIEGO -- You can place a top general in Afghanistan, but you can't tell him what to think.
Call that one of President Obama's first lessons as commander in chief. The person who took the president to school on that point was Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who was named by Obama just a few months ago as the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan.
You would think the president would put a high value on what his commander has to say. But apparently in Obamaland the wisdom of the messenger is directly proportional to whether the White House wants to heed the message. And there seems to be a lot that McChrystal wants to say that the White House isn't ready to hear.
According to McClatchy Newspapers, military officials in Kabul and Washington say that the White House and Pentagon over the last six weeks had issued directives telling McChrystal not to submit a specific request for an increase in U.S. forces; the general is said to want as many as 45,000 additional troops. The administration isn't ready to consider that option. Instead, McChrystal sent his 66-page report last month to Defense Secretary Robert Gates. As everyone knows by now, the general concluded that the U.S. effort in Afghanistan "will likely result in failure" without a new strategy and an urgent infusion of troops. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen. David H. Petraeus, the head of U.S. Central Command, both backed that assessment.
Obama's own arguments about what to do in Afghanistan have not been very persuasive. Not even to himself. In March, he declared that the United States would prevent the return of the Taliban and "enhance the military, governance and economic capacity" of Afghanistan in order to help prevent al-Qaeda from returning and once again using the country as a launching pad for further attacks against the United States. But now the president seems to be backing off from his own hard line. On CBS' "Face the Nation," Obama said that "the only reason I send a single young man or woman in uniform anywhere in the world is because I think it's necessary to keep us safe. ... We're not gonna put the cart before the horse and just think by sending more troops (to Afghanistan) we're automatically going to make Americans safe."
So what's changed? The administration has been floating this line that with the integrity of the recent Afghan election in doubt, we can't be sure we have a reliable partner in Kabul.
Yet what seems to be a reversal on Afghanistan has little to do with a foreign election. This is about politics here at home.
Polls show that Americans have lost their appetite for continuing the fight in Afghanistan. A recent CNN/Opinion Research poll found only 39 percent of Americans favor the war -- an all-time low -- and 58 percent are opposed to it.
And then there's the health care debate, which has worsened the relationship between Congress and the White House and stirred up a sizable amount of public discontent toward the administration. This has made it difficult for the White House to convince Americans to sign on to anything.
So no matter what Obama said in the spring, it is no surprise that many White House advisers including Vice President Joe Biden are looking for a way to leave Afghanistan. That would be a grave mistake, and an abdication of Obama's duty to keep Americans safe by preventing more acts of terrorism. More than a clumsy flip-flop on policy, it would also be an outright betrayal of the military leaders that he put in charge of the operation in Afghanistan.
According to McClatchy, some members of McChrystal's staff said they don't understand why Obama called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" but still hasn't given them the resources they need to do what is necessary.
Good question. We should all be asking the same thing.
And at least three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that McChrystal would probably resign rather than co-sign a failed policy that puts U.S. troops in danger.
McChrystal is in a tough spot. When he isn't fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, he has to combat ignorance and cowardice on the Potomac. The general might have to end his career over this. But he shouldn't back down -- not when strong leaders are in such short supply.
ruben.navarrette@uniontrib.com
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Ill say it first, Obama is so overhead his head even he does not realize it.
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There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.
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You know what's interesting is that many who criticized the Bush admin for being in Iraq would always say "we are in the wrong country, we should be in Afghanistan!" yet now, you don't see them supporting action in Afghan either. What gives?
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There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.
How disgraceful this son of Kaddafi is. The surge is what saved Iraq and Traitor-in-Chief was against that too.
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Thats the deal man, Barry can't get anything done in Congress and does not want to be distracted by this pesky war thing, while trying to ram home his maxist agenda. Afghanistan was the good war when the Dems needed to appear stong on foreign policy, just not Iraq. Now they are flailing along and want to cut and run.....thats what they do best.
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Thats the deal man, Barry can't get anything done in Congress and does not want to be distracted by this pesky war thing, while trying to ram home his maxist agenda. Afghanistan was the good war when the Dems needed to appear stong on foreign policy, just not Iraq. Now they are flailing along and want to cut and run.....thats what they do best.
Its hard for me to even talk to people i know who voted for obama anymore knowing full well the disgrace, disaster, dishonor, and debt they helped usher in.
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I can't stomach him, and I know full well this asshole or one of them will be serving me my turkey this year. Every time he mentions the sacrifices our guys have made, it makes me want to puke. He wanted to bail in Iraq....he makes me ill.
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I can't stomach him, and I know full well this asshole or one of them will be serving me my turkey this year. Every time he mentions the sacrifices our guys have made, it makes me want to puke. He wanted to bail in Iraq....he makes me ill.
Wether we should be there or not is one issue. However, once committed, to me it is a disgrace and dishonor to the fallen soldiers not to win the mission and let their familes and the nation feel that all is not lost.
Obama's refusal to support the surge is reason alone to question anything he does knowing the results it had.
The fact is that he is a moron and is not bright in the least bit. Without his teleprompter he is an incoherhent college marxist radical professor.
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Wether we should be there or not is one issue. However, once committed, to me it is a disgrace and dishonor to the fallen soldiers not to win the mission and let their familes and the nation feel that all is not lost.
Obama's refusal to support the surge is reason alone to question anything he does knowing the results it had.
The fact is that he is a moron and is not bright in the least bit. Without his teleprompter he is an incoherhent college marxist radical professor.
If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight? You think the military is stretched thin right now? Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman. I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up.
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You know what's interesting is that many who criticized the Bush admin for being in Iraq would always say "we are in the wrong country, we should be in Afghanistan!" yet now, you don't see them supporting action in Afghan either. What gives?
IMHO, the issue is that Obama has not clearly defined his policy for our objectives in Afghanistan. Our military can only offer advice and guidance depending on what the CIC decides and right now, they're shooting in the dark. Is it to eradicate the Taliban? Catch Osama? Support the current (and likely very corrupt) government? Restore infrastructure? All of the above?
Until Obama clearly sets out what he wants our objectives to be now that he's POTUS, I think there will continue to be a disconnect between the White House and the military. And Barry just seems to be trying to feel which way the politicals winds are blowing.
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If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight? You think the military is stretched thin right now? Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman. I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up.
I see his post sailed way, way over your head. He didn't say he was staunchly supporting our presence, only that if the decision is made for us to be there, then we have to support our military with everything they need.
I'm getting the feeling your intellectual level is along the lines of The Luke, Jag, Mons?
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Don't worry Muscles I can fire with both hands...3's off the hook. Besides he does his part..he supports the troops, more then I can say for u bedpan boy.
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If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight? You think the military is stretched thin right now? Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman. I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up.
just plain idiocy and been spouted here by many a liberal...
im guessing your against homelessness and probably for a single payer option health care system or at least everybody having health care?
you have any homeless ppl living in your house?
pay for anybodies medical bills out of pocket and not through taxes?
well then stfu and put your money where you mouth is clown...
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If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight? You think the military is stretched thin right now? Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman. I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up.
What a stupid comment. I am also against genocide, nuclear weapons and terrorism, as are most people, but by your logic nobody should support something, or ever do anything unless they are willing to die for something they support. My 72 year old neihbor and WW2 veteran supports ending the genocide in Darfur. Should he fly to the Sudan, get on a donkey and fight the Sudanese government?
I am against rapists and child molestors-- Should I quit my job, desert my family and friends and start my own amateur "caught on camera" series where I make citizens arrests against the bad guys?
Obama supports the war in Afghanistan-- Should he personally put on fatigues and enter the battlefield with a bazooka?
Ok, now that your argument has been exposed are utterly fucking moronic, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and STFU.
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He does put his mouth and sponge on things....does that count.
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Obama is a disaster. He is metaphorically hiding under his desk. I have no confidence in him whatsoever.
IMHO, the issue is that Obama has not clearly defined his policy for our objectives in Afghanistan. Our military can only offer advice and guidance depending on what the CIC decides and right now, they're shooting in the dark. Is it to eradicate the Taliban? Catch Osama? Support the current (and likely very corrupt) government? Restore infrastructure? All of the above?
To be fair, I think its the job of the Secretary of Defense, the Undersecretary of Defense, the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, and the heads of the Chiefs of Staff to advise the President on what those objectives should be, and the President approves of them. My problem with Obama is that I just dont get the sense that he views this Afghanistan mission to be very important. He doesnt seem very passionate about it. Ofcourse, what do you expect from somebody that holds a goddam joint session of Congress about healthcare only two days before the anniversary of 9/11? He needs to put his foot down and proclaim that we are staying in Afghanistan. Be a goddam leader. Im not going to blame him for not immediately sending the troops that Mcrystal requested. That piece of info should never have leaked. Some people dont know if more troops is the answer. But he also needs to realize the cost of too much delay.
Say what you want to about Bush's management of the early stages of the Iraq war. Atleast he was a leader. Atleast he was steadfast in proclaiming that we would never retreat, no matter how much people in both parties screamed. Bush and McCain would be on a podium right now saying that we are not leaving.
I heard Obama's response to a question concerning Iran's nukes from a reporter, and he did his usual glib bloviating. Talking for 2 or 3 mintues and not saying a dam thing. It was embarassing. I have to admit that when he does that in response to economic and social issues, there is a small superficial part of me that is somewhat mesmerized. But when he does it in response to pressing foriegn policy matters like Iran, he sounds like a complete joke and a disgrace.
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I'm not going to cut and paste what MM2k was talking about but the CBS/ABC reporter asked him about something regarding victory over Iran if they get them to stop the nuke plants....Barry said he wasn't interested in victory, just fixing a problem. Its bigger then a problem Barry...he doesn't care and he doesn't get it. Those National Security briefs must be magic. U could tell him we're being invaded and as long as our enemy didn't interrupt his agenda, no big deal.
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There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.
No way you're an Officer. I even doubt you're active Military......if Military at all.
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No way you're an Officer. I even doubt you're active Military......if Military at all.
It must hurt, huh, Mons? Knowing that HH6 is a successful military officer. Fretting over your dishonorable discharge. Constantly obsessing over how things might have turned out for you if the SSgt hadn't walked into that closet and found you on your knees, a PFC's dick in your mouth, and your hands...
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Damm Skip how did u know.....of course ol' Mons would never know what an Officer does because u actually have to make it out of Basic. There are sooo many ways for u to put this to bed but u won't because u can't. I;ve given about a million outs and u can't do it. I can call Barry anything I want...I'm not doing it as official Army policy, nobody is quoting me. I think Skip just destroyed u for the 9 trillionth time anyway.
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i always figured the prez was in charge. not the generals.
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i always figured the prez was in charge. not the generals.
Brilliant 240 - Obama has never even led a hot dog stand and now you are comfortable with him leading the wars?
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Brilliant 240 - Obama has never even led a hot dog stand and now you are comfortable with him leading the wars?
I never said that. I just remember bush getting heat - rightfully so - for just letting generals decide how to run shit. A military man is never going to say "let's scale back our forces by 50%"
Military folks like it safe and powerful - you put 300k men in an area, you kill everything with a teststerone level, and you call it a win.
Civilians like 'precision' hits (which is anything but) and small sterile wars.
no prez should ever let the military make all the calls.
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I never said that. I just remember bush getting heat - rightfully so - for just letting generals decide how to run shit. A military man is never going to say "let's scale back our forces by 50%"
Military folks like it safe and powerful - you put 300k men in an area, you kill everything with a teststerone level, and you call it a win.
Civilians like 'precision' hits (which is anything but) and small sterile wars.
no prez should ever let the military make all the calls.
The POTUS sets the overall strategy with input from the military. The exact logistics of carrying out that strategy is typically left to the military, though as a practical matter I think we all realize there will be some degree of civilian intervention at the top.
I just saw McChrystal on 60 minutes and one of the things he's pounding into the troops is the reduction of civilian casualties. He said point blank that we needed to reduce civilian casualties if we were to have any chance of success whatsoever. He said a lot and it was interesting, but basically it boiled down to fighting a smarter war and most importantly getting the civilian population on our side.
Something else I found interesting is that since Obama took office, he has only spoken to McChrystal once.
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wow, weird they've only talked once. however, if their teams trade info, that's probably adequate, and more complete than what 2 guys could remember over lunch.
yeah, IF we had won over the populations in iraq and afghanistan, the wars would be over. they seem to smile at us, then stay quiet as insurgents do their dirt.
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wow, weird they've only talked once. however, if their teams trade info, that's probably adequate, and more complete than what 2 guys could remember over lunch.
yeah, IF we had won over the populations in iraq and afghanistan, the wars would be over. they seem to smile at us, then stay quiet as insurgents do their dirt.
And how exactly is the US going to win over the populations of Muslim countries, completely impossible.
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And how exactly is the US going to win over the populations of Muslim countries, completely impossible.
I dunno. ain't gonna happen in ten years. it can happen in 100 years though. getting them online and eating mcD is a start. once porn and good food take precedence over blowing themselves up for a book that's thousands of years old, we're good!
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I dunno. ain't gonna happen in ten years. it can happen in 100 years though. getting them online and eating mcD is a start. once porn and good food take precedence over blowing themselves up for a book that's thousands of years old, we're good!
Good luck with that, shit we have Americans turning to Islam and trying to blow shit up, they have had McD and porn. Doesn't do any good
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The POTUS sets the overall strategy with input from the military. The exact logistics of carrying out that strategy is typically left to the military, though as a practical matter I think we all realize there will be some degree of civilian intervention at the top.
I just saw McChrystal on 60 minutes and one of the things he's pounding into the troops is the reduction of civilian casualties. He said point blank that we needed to reduce civilian casualties if we were to have any chance of success whatsoever. He said a lot and it was interesting, but basically it boiled down to fighting a smarter war and most importantly getting the civilian population on our side.
Something else I found interesting is that since Obama took office, he has only spoken to McChrystal once.
Epic tough guy talk for someone who lives behind blast walls and walks around with a batallion of men protecting him in a cleared out area.
This crap pisses me off more than any decision a commander in chief makes.
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Good luck with that, shit we have Americans turning to Islam and trying to blow shit up, they have had McD and porn. Doesn't do any good
eh, those are the rare self-hating schmucks you have with any group.
i'm talking about 3 or 4 generations of softening up. They cna only watch so many american movies, read wester tweets, bust a nut to american hotties... until they want to be us.
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eh, those are the rare self-hating schmucks you have with any group.
i'm talking about 3 or 4 generations of softening up. They cna only watch so many american movies, read wester tweets, bust a nut to american hotties... until they want to be us.
It's worked so well so far, they don't want to be us, the US stands for everything that they try to avoid. We are the exact opposite of what Islam teaches.
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It's worked so well so far, they don't want to be us, the US stands for everything that they try to avoid. We are the exact opposite of what Islam teaches.
well they've had the web less than 10 years. And I know we're different. But our way is tons more fun.
Look at it this way.. in america, 15 years ago, most kids saw their first va-jayjay at age 10 or 12 when they cound a playboy... and even then it was some soft stuff in playboy. Today? Curious 8 year olds can see woman-on-horse action easily. Imagine how desensitized we'll be to sex in 50 years?
I think the web will have that effect over there as well, as time passes. They're a decade into having the web, and they're rioting in iran. imagine what 20 years of learning will do to that voting base?
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Epic tough guy talk for someone who lives behind blast walls and walks around with a batallion of men protecting him in a cleared out area.
This crap pisses me off more than any decision a commander in chief makes.
Feel free to let him know that. :)
In all seriousness garebear, I don't know enough about him. I can tell you he's Airborne, but whether he bobbed and weaved his way up or busted his ass on the front line with guys like you, I don't have a clue.
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There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.
KC...I'm an American...barry represents everything I hate..he's a marxist douchebag and not fit to lead his laberdoodle to the shitter let alone this country. I blame Barry when I stub my toe.
"Officer" if you continue your Contempt for President Obama, you may find yourself in hot water. So I suggest you temper your rhetoric toward our Commander in Chief, President Obama.
I promise it's in your best interest, so do not press the issue.
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"Officer" if you continue your Contempt for President Obama, you may find yourself in hot water. So I suggest you temper your rhetoric toward our Commander in Chief, President Obama.
I promise it's in your best interest, so do not press the issue.
GFY 10 times over you imposter.
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"Officer" if you continue your Contempt for President Obama, you may find yourself in hot water. So I suggest you temper your rhetoric toward our Commander in Chief, President Obama.
I promise it's in your best interest, so do not press the issue.
My oath is to the Constitution jackass, anything I say is not official Army policy...I know the regs regarding this jackass...as opposed to the "Stolen Valor" act that can throw ur worthless ass in prision. U ought to worry dude, not me. Barry is a worthless piece of shit.
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^^^^ Keep it up "Officer" and we'll see. ;)
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^^^^ Keep it up "Officer" and we'll see. ;)
Company & Batt info please?
BTW - Mons - I was wondering, surely you havep ics you can post no?
As far as this thread goes, I thought Obama had a policy for Afghanistan prior to the election. What happened to that?
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He had a policy in March..until his domestic agenda went south. Mons....violation of the Stolen Valor act is jail time a fine or both..nobody cares about my opinion of Barry unless I'm not doing my job or airing it as official Army policy. I'm not, U however are claiming direct service in two wars, indirectly claiming airborne and Ranger status. It bad enough ur lying about the first 1..the 2nd one will get ur get head kicked in.
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Company & Batt info please?
BTW - Mons - I was wondering, surely you havep ics you can post no?
As far as this thread goes, I thought Obama had a policy for Afghanistan prior to the election. What happened to that?
Ok.... I'll make you a deal 3's, if I post a picture of my "Wings" will you promise to leave Getbig forever? (I'll post a note next to the picture saying hello)
You up for it kid? ;)
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Go ahead,,,I can go to the PX and buy em as well..along with a scuba bubble and Halo wings. I want to see ur class A's...service ribbons for service....a shot of ur bdu's with ur jump wings...but sure..that will help.
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Go ahead,,,I can go to the PX and buy em as well..along with a scuba bubble and Halo wings. I want to see ur class A's...service ribbons for service....a shot of ur bdu's with ur jump wings...but sure..that will help.
"Officer", my Jump School Wings are in a small picture frame. No need to buy them. ;)
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Ok.... I'll make you a deal 3's, if I post a picture of my "Wings" will you promise to leave Getbig forever? (I'll post a note next to the picture saying hello)
You up for it kid? ;)
*Bump*
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Ok.... I'll make you a deal 3's, if I post a picture of my "Wings" will you promise to leave Getbig forever? (I'll post a note next to the picture saying hello)
You up for it kid? ;)
Deal provided you supply the following:
1. Your name and company that HH6 can verify.
2. Time stamped picture with you in it with your wings that can be verified along with the photo you provide.
3. Verifiable proof of you fighting in Panama that can be cross checked with the info you provide as stated in questions 1 & 2.
4. Same for Question 3 in regards to Gulf War 1.
5. Copy of your discharge papers.
If you provie those, I am gone.
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"Officer", my Jump School Wings are in a small picture frame. No need to buy them. ;)
Ok post a pick....I want to see ur jump wings on ur BDU's. I want to see the mustard stain...there are plenty of things that can't be faked. Everybody keeps one set...i stll have stuff from the Marines..I have all my dress uniforms..same time period. If u jumped into Panama u have it. I could buy a shadow box jumpwing set near any Post in the Army. In short Mons...the stuff that might, just might get by some of the guys on here...won't get by me if its bullshit. I'm not sure who else has served but the easiest way to prove this is ur DD214 with whatever info u want balcked out..blacked out. I would warn u that while u can print a 214 from the net...the wording will only one way and I will forward it to the POW/MIA folks who also go through Stolen Valor cases.
3 I don't need his name...but if he provides his unit info that would be good enough. I can understand that he might not want his name out there. Again Mons I am forwarding this crap to experts..guys who have roasted dudes who have written fake books, worn fake uni's, talked to vets group..and spent years on their story...so if ur fake....don't bother.
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This isn't hard Mons.....even a unit would help..of course u could wiki that as well..but not some of the folks in the unit. Who was ur BN CDR..BDE CDR..Company CDR.....Platoon LDR...
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Ok post a pick....I want to see ur jump wings on ur BDU's. I want to see the mustard stain...there are plenty of things that can't be faked. Everybody keeps one set...i stll have stuff from the Marines..I have all my dress uniforms..same time period. If u jumped into Panama u have it. I could buy a shadow box jumpwing set near any Post in the Army. In short Mons...the stuff that might, just might get by some of the guys on here...won't get by me if its bullshit. I'm not sure who else has served but the easiest way to prove this is ur DD214 with whatever info u want balcked out..blacked out. I would warn u that while u can print a 214 from the net...the wording will only one way and I will forward it to the POW/MIA folks who also go through Stolen Valor cases.
3 I don't need his name...but if he provides his unit info that would be good enough. I can understand that he might not want his name out there. Again Mons I am forwarding this crap to experts..guys who have roasted dudes who have written fake books, worn fake uni's, talked to vets group..and spent years on their story...so if ur fake....don't bother.
Hey Mons - how about you leave if you cant provide what I asked?
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I tell u what...the more u provide....the more time u have to get the rest. We're not taking all day...I can snap a pick of my ACU's now and post it. This isn't hard Mons.
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*Bump*
Mons - how about you post a pic of your graduating class from boot camp?
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Mons - how about you post a pic of your graduating class from boot camp?
Hey Mons, i think I found a pic of you. No wonder you dont want to post it.
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Hey Mons, i think I found a pic of you. No wonder you dont want to post it.
Now we know why Mons hates the military.
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Mons...well.
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Its hard for me to even talk to people i know who voted for obama anymore knowing full well the disgrace, disaster, dishonor, and debt they helped usher in.
Have you found that many of those same people are now regretting their decision to elect our "young, African, Kenyan president?"
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Have you found that many of those same people are now regretting their decision to elect our "young, African, Kenyan president?"
None who will admit it.
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None who will admit it.
I’ve encountered quite a few starting some time between the auto bailout and the introduction of the initial “unfinished" healthcare proposal.
I voted McCain – girlfriend voted “young, African, Kenyan president.”
She & her mum (both lifelong, diehard libs) expressed much regret over the last two months until…
…O’s televised healthcare address several weeks ago. Apparently, the smooth talkin' has again made everything right in the world for now.
Although her mum is still very skeptical and is now watching FOX News & Rush almost daily. ;D
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I’ve encountered quite a few starting some time between the auto bailout and the introduction of the initial “unfinished" healthcare proposal.
I voted McCain – girlfriend voted “young, African, Kenyan president.”
She & her mum (both lifelong, diehard libs) expressed much regret over the last two months until…
…O’s televised healthcare address several weeks ago. Apparently, the smooth talkin' has again made everything right in the world for now.
Although her mum is still very skeptical and is now watching FOX News & Rush almost daily. ;D
After the press conference disaster where Obama ccused doctors of lopping off feet for $$, notice how he went to the well of the Senate where he could give a speech via teleprompter and not face any questions?
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There you go spinning CT yarns again...
;D
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There you go spinning CT yarns again...
;D
I notice these things, while the unsuspecting sheep just eat up all the phoney staged garbage. The speech that your GF's mother ate up like cake was tailor made just for that audience. There was zero chance of a mistake by Dear Leader since the whole charade was stages. Notice how Wilsons' "You Lie" got so much coverage? The only reason that happened is because it upset the staged farce Obama put on and exposed the truth of the matter and foced attention on the policy itself, not the stupid speech.
You watch - Obama will never give a press conference again on health care after the last fiasco. We will get stages town halls, teleprompter speeches, etc.
Without the teleprompter, he is incoherent, illogical, and prone to making huge factual errors which most people easily see through.
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Hey, I’m sorry for derailing your thread, but my girlfriend works in healthcare.
She graduated with her Master’s the same year Clinton passed his reform that put a cap on the amount of $$ companies could recover for PT & OT treatment.
That had a significantly negative impact on salaries in those fields, she had $75,000+ in student loans, and things for her were really rough for about 2 years before they straightened out.
Now she’s filling her pants at the prospect of “young, African, Kenyan president’s” healthcare plan, as are a lot of doctors, therapists, etc.
I told her, “Hey, the last time somebody tried fukking with your livelihood it was a dem. Historically it’s always the dems. who push for universal hc. So why’d you vote for him, and why are you surprised it’s happening? Didn’t you pay attention to any of his platform?”
Now, she’s supporting it again after his televised reassurance that all of the plan’s criticisms are unfounded and/or just rumors.
Well, I know I feel better now. ::)
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Hey, I’m sorry for derailing your thread, but my girlfriend works in healthcare.
She graduated with her Master’s the same year Clinton passed his reform that put a cap on the amount of $$ companies could recover for PT & OT treatment.
That had a significantly negative impact on salaries in those fields, she had $75,000+ in student loans, and things for her were really rough for about 2 years before they straightened out.
Now she’s filling her pants at the prospect of “young, African, Kenyan president’s” healthcare plan, as are a lot of doctors, therapists, etc.
I told her, “Hey, the last time somebody tried fukking with your livelihood it was a dem. Historically it’s always the dems. who push for universal hc. So why’d you vote for him, and why are you surprised it’s happening? Didn’t you pay attention to any of his platform?”
Now, she’s supporting it again after his televised reassurance that all of the plan’s criticisms are unfounded and/or just rumors.
Well, I know I feel better now. ::)
That is utterly depressing.
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O’s rebuttal reminds me of Joe Pesci’s opening statement in My Cousin Vinny.
Go to about 2:20
That's about the extent of the depth of O's health care rebuttal.
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Bump for Mons putting up or STFU up forever.
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Unreal dude, unreal.
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Unreal dude, unreal.
HH6 - the reason I asked my questions the way I did was so he cant make up some phoney nonsense. If i am putting it on the line, it had better be for something complelty verifiable by you for both Panama and GW1.
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I'm with ya....if he give us his name its pretty easy...those guy who dropped into Panama with the 3rd Rangers are few and far between. It may take u guys a little longer to verify but u'd figure it out as well. If u have a combat drop u get a mustard stain on ur jump wings. I'm not explaining that any further until idiot verifies his ID.
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I'm with ya....if he give us his name its pretty easy...those guy who dropped into Panama with the 3rd Rangers are few and far between. It may take u guys a little longer to verify but u'd figure it out as well. If u have a combat drop u get a mustard stain on ur jump wings. I'm not explaining that any further until idiot verifies his ID.
He's full of shit, no one who is a Ranger would have any problem verifying their service.
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I'm not saying he is or isn't full of shit until we have proof one way or the other, although the longer this goes on, the more telling the outcome becomes.
It’s one thing to be anti-president…
It’s one thing to be anti-war…
It’s terrible to be anti-troops…
But it’s really fukking low and pitiful to falsely impersonate a soldier in an attempt to validate your beliefs & arguments on a message board – or anywhere.
Guys like HH6 legitimately fight for US to have (among other things) the right to freely express our opinions.
To falsely claim you are “one of his” simply to legitimize your criticism of him, our military, our government, our citizens, our country, etc…
That’s an admission that you know your arguments are weak, and that you yourself lack conviction of your own beliefs.
Why else would you try to add credibility to yourself by “tricking” people into thinking you’re someone you’re not.
Wait a minute…
I just described most of Hollywood.
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I'm not saying he is or isn't full of shit until we have proof one way or the other, although the longer this goes on, the more telling the outcome becomes.
It’s one thing to be anti-president…
It’s one thing to be anti-war…
It’s terrible to be anti-troops…
But it’s really fukking low and pitiful to falsely impersonate a soldier in an attempt to validate your beliefs & arguments on a message board – or anywhere.
Guys like HH6 legitimately fight for US to have (among other things) the right to freely express our opinions.
To falsely claim you are “one of his” simply to legitimize your criticism of him, our military, our government, our citizens, our country, etc…
That’s an admission that you know your arguments are weak, and that you yourself lack conviction of your own beliefs.
Why else would you try to add credibility to yourself by “tricking” people into thinking you’re someone you’re not.
Wait a minute…
I just described most of Hollywood.
With all due respect Montague - this crap has been going on a looonnnnggg time. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What?
Hollywood or imposters.
Oh, damn it...
Kinda the same thing, isn't it?
:)
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What?
Hollywood or imposters.
Oh, damn it...
Kinda the same thing, isn't it?
:)
Mons wished our soldiers dead and since then, even though Hugo does not like it, i have been calling him out at every chance. He is a POS and defames the soldiers who have given their lives for this country. There is no other poster on Getbig i wish to see harm to other than this dirtbag drunk.
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With all due respect Montague - this crap has been going on a looonnnnggg time. ;D ;D ;D ;D
So what's the deal? Are you going to join the military?
Or do you prefer acting tough while other men do the ass kicking?
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So what's the deal? Are you going to join the military?
Or do you prefer acting tough while other men do the ass kicking?
Mons aint kicking anything other than his dog.
BTW - you are against starving people in africa right? Why dont you quit your job and join the peace corps?
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So what's the deal? Are you going to join the military?
Or do you prefer acting tough while other men do the ass kicking?
Nice logic ::)
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Mons wished our soldiers dead and since then, even though Hugo does not like it, i have been calling him out at every chance. He is a POS and defames the soldiers who have given their lives for this country. There is no other poster on Getbig i wish to see harm to other than this dirtbag drunk.
There’s nothing wrong with calling someone on the truth because there’s nothing wrong with the truth – unless you’re an asshole.
That’s when deceit becomes appealing.
Asking someone for simple verification of who they are is not a problem unless they’re not who they claim to be.
I don't know MV, but I hope he's not falsely posing as a soldier simply to lend credibility & legitimacy to his attacks. Doing so is a slap in the face to every honest American soldier.
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Nice logic ::)
You're not well versed in the definition of logic, are you?
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You're not well versed in the definition of logic, are you?
Lets see since 33 calls out Mons Anus on his being a vet, you ask 33 if he is going to join the military.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c293/Locke2007/Funny%20Pictures/spock-illogical.png)
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There’s nothing wrong with calling someone on the truth because there’s nothing wrong with the truth – unless you’re an asshole.
That’s when deceit becomes appealing.
Asking someone for simple verification of who they are is not a problem unless they’re not who they claim to be.
I don't know MV, but I hope he's not falsely posing as a soldier simply to lend credibility & legitimacy to his attacks. Doing so is a slap in the face to every honest American soldier.
He literally stalked HH^ with some bizarre stuff for a fewe months.
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I never claimed to be a vet. Mons claims to be a combat vet who was a ranger in panama and GW1. HH6 asked him to verify this after mons stalked him for months like a jilted lover.
He also said he wishes our soldiers dead by IED blasts.
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Lets see since 33 calls out Mons Anus on his being a vet, you ask 33 if he is going to join the military.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c293/Locke2007/Funny%20Pictures/spock-illogical.png)
You may have to look further back to gather the knowledge you need.
If you can't keep it all in order, just print out the pertinent postings while you read back through the pages to find the postings where my reply is relevant.
33 claims we need more men in Afghanistan, the military is stretched thin. I figure he could do his part in this dilemma by joining the military to fight for his country in the war he feels so strongly about.
It's the least he could do for the country he loves and the war he supports, no?
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The military wants professional soldiers, not hooligans from the Bronx NY. ;D
In all seriousness, my point was that if we make the collective decision as a nation to stay there, it should be to win and to give the generals what they need to carry out the mission and keep our soldiers equippeted with what they need.
If we decide to come home, fine.
However, the waddle our way through without either more soldiers or a committment to win seems like the worst of both worlds to me.
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Look... U can root for our side to win..u can be pro service and not join. This is ridiculous. 3 isn't in a postion send guys like me in harms way..he's not a chickenhawk..he is, however an American. As an American he wants the US to win and pull out. And another thing...all this uneducated or brainwashed shit needs to stop. I love this job, I love deploying because I happen to believe in the mission. I also deployed to Bosnia, that was a massive waste of my time and ur money. Uncle Sam has been nice enough to pay for my post grad schooling and continues to send me to various schools for civilian and military. Guys like Mons or even Muscles couldn't fathom what we do...the separation between civilian and military is vast. I would buy the fact that with the economy, more people will join, but we're at war and that sobers people enough to make em think long and hard before signing up.
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In all seriousness, my point was that if we make the collective decision as a nation to stay there, it should be to win and to give the generals what they need to carry out the mission and keep our soldiers equippeted with what they need.
If we decide to come home, fine.
However, the waddle our way through without either more soldiers or a committment to win seems like the worst of both worlds to me.
That's a very "shit or get off the pot" attitude, and a sensible one at that.
Difficult to dispute.
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Look... U can root for our side to win..u can be pro service and not join. This is ridiculous. 3 isn't in a postion send guys like me in harms way..he's not a chickenhawk..he is, however an American. As an American he wants the US to win and pull out. And another thing...all this uneducated or brainwashed shit needs to stop. I love this job, I love deploying because I happen to believe in the mission. I also deployed to Bosnia, that was a massive waste of my time and ur money. Uncle Sam has been nice enough to pay for my post grad schooling and continues to send me to various schools for civilian and military. Guys like Mons or even Muscles couldn't fathom what we do...the separation between civilian and military is vast. I would buy the fact that with the economy, more people will join, but we're at war and that sobers people enough to make em think long and hard before signing up.
I would have naturally expected the poor economy to be a boost for military recruitment. That would have been my guess. So after reading your post I had to search:
Down economy boosts military recruiting
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5914292/
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The military wants professional soldiers, not hooligans from the Bronx NY. ;D
In all seriousness, my point was that if we make the collective decision as a nation to stay there, it should be to win and to give the generals what they need to carry out the mission and keep our soldiers equippeted with what they need.
If we decide to come home, fine.
However, the waddle our way through without either more soldiers or a committment to win seems like the worst of both worlds to me.
I actually agree 100%, except for the "equippeted" part, that sounds like a new form of "don't ask, don't tell."
POTUS is treating this like a woman getting ready for a job interview.
Either do what it takes to win or decide it's not worth it and come home. Don't prance around the bathroom for an hour deciding whether or not to wear the new dress you bought.
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I actually agree 100%, except for the "equippeted" part, that sounds like a new form of "don't ask, don't tell."
POTUS is treating this like a woman getting ready for a job interview.
Either do what it takes to win or decide it's not worth it and come home. Don't prance around the bathroom for an hour deciding whether or not to wear the new dress you bought.
Thats all I was saying. Whatever the choice is, make it and get it done. The murkiness of indecision is dangerous to our soldiers already over there because the Taliban will sense blood in the water.
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I would have naturally expected the poor economy to be a boost for military recruitment. That would have been my guess. So after reading your post I had to search:
Down economy boosts military recruiting
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5914292/
I don;'t think I made my point. We've seen a boost in recruitment as u would expect but the quality has fallen off as more of the wrong kind of people are joining. The Navy and AF are cutting back as we and the Marines grow.
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I don;'t think I made my point. We've seen a boost in recruitment as u would expect but the quality has fallen off as more of the wrong kind of people are joining. The Navy and AF are cutting back as we and the Marines grow.
HH6 - Change is on the way.
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"Officer" if you continue your Contempt for President Obama, you may find yourself in hot water. So I suggest you temper your rhetoric toward our Commander in Chief, President Obama.
I promise it's in your best interest, so do not press the issue.
Glad you're cleaning your act up "Officer". ;)
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Ok.... I'll make you a deal 3's, if I post a picture of my "Wings" will you promise to leave Getbig forever? (I'll post a note next to the picture saying hello)
You up for it kid? ;)
^^^^^^^^
I made you an offer kid.....you declined because you wanted my DNA and first born.
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^^^^^^^^
I made you an offer kid.....you declined because you wanted my DNA and first born.
Way to weasal out of the deal fool. I guess you want me hear haunting you daily over this? ? ?
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Ok.... I'll make you a deal 3's, if I post a picture of my "Wings" will you promise to leave Getbig forever? (I'll post a note next to the picture saying hello)
You up for it kid? ;)
^^^^^^^^
I made you an offer to shoot a picture of my Wings.... and you shit in your pants!!
You're afraid you'd have NO LIFE w/o whining and bitching ALL DAY.
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^^^^^^^^
I made you an offer to shoot a picture of my Wings.... and you shit in your pants!!
You're afraid you'd have NO LIFE w/o whining and bitching ALL DAY.
Yeah, like I am going to fall for your nonsense?
I asked for verifiable info that HH6 can verify and cross check proving you were in combat in both GW1 and Panama.
You backed off that, not me.
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^^^^^^^^
I made you an offer kid.....you declined because you wanted my DNA and first born.
This was my demand:
Deal provided you supply the following:
1. Your name and company that HH6 can verify.
2. Time stamped picture with you in it with your wings that can be verified along with the photo you provide.
3. Verifiable proof of you fighting in Panama that can be cross checked with the info you provide as stated in questions 1 & 2.
4. Same for Question 3 in regards to Gulf War 1.
5. Copy of your discharge papers.
I dont see first born or DNA on that list.
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MOns...I'm not jump qualified...I can go get wings anywhere..u can easily get wings at a surplus store. But u can't get a certificate or ur jump orders...u can't get a 214, a real 214. U will not provide basic unit info..I didn;t even ask for a name. U backed down..u never provided a damm thing. Ur a piece of shit.....
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Holy shit look at that, took me less than 5 secs to google.
(http://www.parachutist.be/images/jump-wings/jump-wing-american.jpg)
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Nice - Mons is an utter joke and has been utterly destroyed on thread after thread over this.
Serious, i like everyone here other than him/her.