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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on October 07, 2009, 08:30:25 PM
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What about the right-wing bloggers celebrating victory a month ago...?
As news reports come in of one Republican after another suggesting that a government-run public option for health care may not be so bad after all, evidence is beginning to mount that the GOP may be conceding defeat in the health care battle -- or at least preparing itself to make major concessions.
Prominent conservative blogger Erick Erickson raised the alarm on his RedState blog on Wednesday that at least some congressional Republicans may be ready to throw in the towel, and even vote for a compromise that could include a public option.
"I am told quite reliably that in a meeting today on Capitol Hill, Republican Senators began to rapidly move toward concessions on health care because they are afraid they cannot hold their members," Erickson wrote. "Some Republicans are now thinking of supporting a government program."
Erickson urged his largely conservative readership to "go to the action center and start calling" their members of Congress.
The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that "the White House is orchestrating a series of endorsements from Republican leaders around the country.
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New plan might allow Dems to slip public option through Senate
By: Susan Ferrechio
Chief Congressional Correspondent
October 7, 2009 Senate Democrats desperate to find a way to pass a health care bill that includes a federal insurance plan may have come up with a way to do it without putting moderate members who oppose it in political jeopardy.
Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., is weighing a plan to bring the final health care bill to the floor without a public option -- making it much easier to get the 60 votes needed to prevent a Republican filibuster -- and then adding the provision later as an amendment.
The public option amendment would be there waiting, but the 60-vote test would technically be on a bill without the government plan. Then moderate Democrats could drop out for the vote on the public option, which requires just 51 votes for passage.
"It's brilliant," said a top Senate Republican aide. "It gets you your votes on cloture for a package that does not include a public option."
<snip>
Senate aides suggest that after passage in the upper chamber, the Senate bill -- public option included -- could then be sent to the House, allowing the lower chamber to simply pass Reid's legislation instead of taking up its own bill. That route would avoid a protracted and contentious battle to meld two different bills and might allow President Obama and Democrats to achieve their goal of passing health care reform by year's end.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/New-plan-mig...
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I asked you a question
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=301164.0#lastPost
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Public option is how you will get competition with the big insurance corporate interests. but i doubt Obama can make it happen. like to get shoot's input on this one.
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Public option is how you will get competition with the big insurance corporate interests. but i doubt Obama can make it happen. like to get shoot's input on this one.
Government rules are the reason there is little to no competition, so adding more government bullshit is not going to do anything except maybe raise our taxes. Why do you think they call these things bills? Because someone has to pay for it.
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Public option is how you will get competition with the big insurance corporate interests. but i doubt Obama can make it happen. like to get shoot's input on this one.
Hedge come on you are smarter than that to believe that nonsense.
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Wait....doesn't the Democratic party have the White House and BOTH houses of Congress? ???
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Public option is how you will get competition with the big insurance corporate interests. but i doubt Obama can make it happen. like to get shoot's input on this one.
Its working in Massachusetts ::)
"To much fanfare from both right and left in 2006, Massachusetts became the first state in the nation to require all residents to buy health insurance. A new state health insurance clearinghouse was created, with taxpayers subsidizing those who couldn’t afford to buy coverage. Then Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican, promised that “every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance.” Yet just two years later, Romney’s much-heralded “solution” - touted by many as the model for a national program - has become an embarrassing flop.Just a year after the universal coverage law passed, The New York Times reported, state insurers were already jacking up rates to twice the national average. According to Dr. Paul Hsieh, a physician and founding member of Freedom and Individual Rights in Medicine, 43 mandatory benefits - including those that many people did not want or need, such as invitro fertilization - raised the costs of coverage for Massachusetts residents by as much as 56 percent, depending upon an individual’s income status. So much for “affordable” health care.
Small businesses with more than 10 employees were required to provide health insurance or pay an extra fee to subsidize uninsured low-income residents, yet the overall costs of the program increased more than $400 million - 85 percent higher than original projections. To make up the difference, payments to health care providers were slashed, so many doctors and dentists in Massachusetts began refusing to take on new patients. In the state with the highest physician/patient ratio in the nation, some people now have to wait more than a year for a simple physical exam.
The irony is that Massachusetts officials reluctantly admitted that, despite increased enrollment, the state is still far from universal coverage - the original goal of the landmark law. To make matters worse, Massachusetts is grappling with a multibillion-dollar deficit while Democratic Gov. Deval Patrick desperately tries to slow down those still-spiraling health care costs, which he said last week were “not sustainable.”
If this sounds just like Canadian-style socialized medicine, that’s because it is. Massachusetts residents now pay more for less access to health care, yet their state still has an uninsured problem!"
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more importantly it works in other countries
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Its working in Massachusetts ::)
"To much fanfare from both right and left in 2006, Massachusetts became the first state in the nation to require all residents to buy health insurance. A new state health insurance clearinghouse was created, with taxpayers subsidizing those who couldn’t afford to buy coverage. Then Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican, promised that “every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance.” Yet just two years later, Romney’s much-heralded “solution” - touted by many as the model for a national program - has become an embarrassing flop.Just a year after the universal coverage law passed, The New York Times reported, state insurers were already jacking up rates to twice the national average. According to Dr. Paul Hsieh, a physician and founding member of Freedom and Individual Rights in Medicine, 43 mandatory benefits - including those that many people did not want or need, such as invitro fertilization - raised the costs of coverage for Massachusetts residents by as much as 56 percent, depending upon an individual’s income status. So much for “affordable” health care.
Small businesses with more than 10 employees were required to provide health insurance or pay an extra fee to subsidize uninsured low-income residents, yet the overall costs of the program increased more than $400 million - 85 percent higher than original projections. To make up the difference, payments to health care providers were slashed, so many doctors and dentists in Massachusetts began refusing to take on new patients. In the state with the highest physician/patient ratio in the nation, some people now have to wait more than a year for a simple physical exam.
The irony is that Massachusetts officials reluctantly admitted that, despite increased enrollment, the state is still far from universal coverage - the original goal of the landmark law. To make matters worse, Massachusetts is grappling with a multibillion-dollar deficit while Democratic Gov. Deval Patrick desperately tries to slow down those still-spiraling health care costs, which he said last week were “not sustainable.”
If this sounds just like Canadian-style socialized medicine, that’s because it is. Massachusetts residents now pay more for less access to health care, yet their state still has an uninsured problem!"
ITS GOING BANKRUPT IN MASS.!!!!Its killing the state.Nice try.
Its funny the way libs paint this.If it passes its a victory for democrats.The fact is,if it passes its a dissaster for America.They know its so bad,they wont implement it to 2013 a year AFTER Obamas re-election bid.Its such an emergency and people are dying,they will wait to make sure Obama is elected before passing it.
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man, a nationwide bankruptcy due to national health care.
the alternative is to let the companies double the rates again over the next 10 years, so that only half the country can afford it.
Why is there no middle ground solution? Why can't insurance companies cut their profits and keep it cheaper and more competitive?
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man, a nationwide bankruptcy due to national health care.
the alternative is to let the companies double the rates again over the next 10 years, so that only half the country can afford it.
Why is there no middle ground solution? Why can't insurance companies cut their profits and keep it cheaper and more competitive?
b/c your saviour and your buddies dont want a compromise...the majority of this country wants reform they simply dont want all the liberal hand outs and ideological bull shit the dems are trying to feed ppl...
let companies cross state lines, tort reform, no pre existing conditions clause, govt ID for health care(seems like a no brainer huh, not for your ilk), no public option etc..etc...
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b/c your saviour and your buddies dont want a compromise...the majority of this country wants reform they simply dont want all the liberal hand outs and ideological bull shit the dems are trying to feed ppl...
let companies cross state lines, tort reform, no pre existing conditions clause, govt ID for health care(seems like a no brainer huh, not for your ilk), no public option etc..etc...
Prices didn't start rising on Jan 21, 2009. They have doubled in the last 8 years.
In another 8 years, I won't be able to afford health care. Tony, you don't even have it now, right?
how the fvck can you defend companies charging healthy young males 200 a month, and healthy families 1200 a month - when you can't afford it yourself?
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man, a nationwide bankruptcy due to national health care.
the alternative is to let the companies double the rates again over the next 10 years, so that only half the country can afford it.
Why is there no middle ground solution? Why can't insurance companies cut their profits and keep it cheaper and more competitive?
Because profits are not the driver of costs alone you fool.
Dont you have an MBA?
240 - how can you be this ignorant? Seriously - how are you uninformed on so many topics after going to school for 6 years?
Its shocking sometimes to see how empty your posts are.
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Because profits are not the driver of costs alone you fool.
Dont you have an MBA?
240 - how can you be this ignorant? Seriously - how are you uninformed on so many topics after going to school for 6 years?
Its shocking sometimes to see how empty your posts are.
Then WHY - while technology improves and operations become more efficient through outsourcing - prices have gone UP?
And you're telling me insurance companies are COST centers, and not PROFIT centers?
Talk MBA, go for it homie...
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Prices didn't start rising on Jan 21, 2009. They have doubled in the last 8 years.
In another 8 years, I won't be able to afford health care. Tony, you don't even have it now, right?
how the fvck can you defend companies charging healthy young males 200 a month, and healthy families 1200 a month - when you can't afford it yourself?
more ignorance from you... ::)
where has it been stated that I cant afford health care? please show me
you seemed to make up your own reality and read what you want from my posts.
Im in favor of health care reform brain child, im not in favor of a public option, I AM TOTALLY IN FAVOR OF SHOWING GOVT ID FOR HEALTH CARE HERE IN THE US...
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Then WHY - while technology improves and operations become more efficient through outsourcing - prices have gone UP?
And you're telling me insurance companies are COST centers, and not PROFIT centers?
Talk MBA, go for it homie...
How can I have a discussion with you when you dont even know what insurance is in the first place?
Insurance is a contract that allocates risk between parties. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, thats how it works.
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Because profits are not the driver of costs alone you fool.
Can you quantify what % of the 100% rise in costs were due to profits?
And can you list what other factors have led to increases in costs, despite the scalability of rising population?
And how about breaking down why machines and medicine are getting cheaper (and docs are making less) but the cost of seeing a doc has doubled.... but it's not the company's fault.
I guaran-fvcking-tee if it was President palin taking on Big Insurance, you'd be jacking off while holding a picket sign in front of UNH.
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122 people will die today because they don't have insurance.
122 people. dead. today.
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where has it been stated that I cant afford health care? please show me
wait - yuo CHOOSE not to have health care? What, cigarettes and skateboards take precedence?
And I'm the ignorant one?? LMAO... dude you're nuts
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Can you quantify what % of the 100% rise in costs were due to profits?
And can you list what other factors have led to increases in costs, despite the scalability of rising population?
And how about breaking down why machines and medicine are getting cheaper (and docs are making less) but the cost of seeing a doc has doubled.... but it's not the company's fault.
I guaran-fvcking-tee if it was President palin taking on Big Insurance, you'd be jacking off while holding a picket sign in front of UNH.
Ok - why are medicare and medicaid costs rising as well? They are not profit driven and run at a massive loss.
I simply cant believe how uninformed you are.
Regulations, lack of real competition, mandates, waste fraud and abuse, law suits, unhealthy lifystyles, all contribute to the increasing costs.
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wait - yuo CHOOSE not to have health care? What, cigarettes and skateboards take precedence?
And I'm the ignorant one?? LMAO... dude you're nuts
LOL nope school and bills
and ya youre the ignorant one
where have i stated I was against health care reform? please give me one post
if you cant find one then STFU about it I am for health care reform simply not UTOPIAN health care reform...
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Ok - why are medicare and medicaid costs rising as well? They are not profit driven and run at a massive loss.
I simply cant believe how uninformed you are.
Regulations, lack of real competition, mandates, waste fraud and abuse, law suits, unhealthy lifystyles, all contribute to the increasing costs.
cross state lines, govt id for health care, tort reform
sounds like a pretty good health care reform doesnt it?
apparently 240 wants the obama utopia he was sold during the election
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Regulations, lack of real competition, mandates, waste fraud and abuse, law suits, unhealthy lifystyles, all contribute to the increasing costs.
1) So left un-regulated, costs would drop? Oh my...
2) lack of competition - and you hate the public option, huh ;)
3) unhealthy lifestyles - yet you hate that soda and cig taxes, right?
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LOL nope school and bills
and ya youre the ignorant one
where have i stated I was against health care reform? please give me one post
if you cant find one then STFU about it I am for health care reform simply not UTOPIAN health care reform...
So what is your solution? What health care reform would you like to see?
I can't believe how many people here are giving BJs to firms that will one day tell them to piss off when they're sick...
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So what is your solution? What health care reform would you like to see?
I can't believe how many people here are giving BJs to firms that will one day tell them to piss off when they're sick...
I still cant believe you cant understand that the majority of ppl are in favor of health care reform simply not you and youre liberal buddies utopian view of health care reform dip shit
ive already said it, let ins companies cross state lines, no pre existing conditions clauses, tort reform, govt id for health care here in america
If you have one or two companies in a state what makes you think that is a competitive enviroment? honestly
Apparently obama says we can cut costs and pay for the govt option without raising taxes through regulations etc...so why not do these things without the govt option?
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Here are some facts for you -
Uninsured working age Americans not illegals Americans have a 40% higher risk of death than privately insured counterparts. In 1993 the difference was only 25%. It's growing by about 1% per year at it's current rate and will be 43% in 3 years. The chances of you dying because you smoked are 42% greater than those who didn't
So in short, in three years time it will have been a healthier decision to have smoked than to not afford health care.
And you can justify this how 333 and tony? How do you justify letting this go on is this what this country has come to. All the anger of 9/11 and terrorist attacks in New York, not one of you questions the spending of the pentagon in the wars fought because of that. Yet here you are questioning spending on trying to keep the 45,000 Americans, who die each year because of no insurance, alive. Where is the justification for that? What because the Americans aren't dying on your TV or in front of your eyes you aren't outraged?
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I still cant believe you cant understand that the majority of ppl are in favor of health care reform simply not you and youre liberal buddies utopian view of health care reform dip shit
ive already said it, let ins companies cross state lines, no pre existing conditions clauses, tort reform, govt id for health care here in america
If you have one or two companies in a state what makes you think that is a competitive enviroment? honestly
Apparently obama says we can cut costs and pay for the govt option without raising taxes through regulations etc...so why not do these things without the govt option?
Yet your party has failed you. They have no raised these issues in their own plan. They have done NOTHING. You are mad at Obama but you should be mad at your own party for doing nothing.
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I'm not in favor of giving health care to everyone, particular illegals.
However, I am in favor of checking costs, using any necessary means.
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Here are some facts for you -
Uninsured working age Americans not illegals Americans have a 40% higher risk of death than privately insured counterparts. In 1993 the difference was only 25%. It's growing by about 1% per year at it's current rate and will be 43% in 3 years. The chances of you dying because you smoked are 42% greater than those who didn't
So in short, in three years time it will have been a healthier decision to have smoked than to not afford health care.
And you can justify this how 333 and tony? How do you justify letting this go on is this what this country has come to. All the anger of 9/11 and terrorist attacks in New York, not one of you questions the spending of the pentagon in the wars fought because of that. Yet here you are questioning spending on trying to keep the 45,000 Americans, who die each year because of no insurance, alive. Where is the justification for that? What because the Americans aren't dying on your TV or in front of your eyes you aren't outraged?
LOL nice stat but it leaves a lot in the dark as well what were the causes of death for those ppl?
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Here are some facts for you -
Uninsured working age Americans not illegals Americans have a 40% higher risk of death than privately insured counterparts. In 1993 the difference was only 25%. It's growing by about 1% per year at it's current rate and will be 43% in 3 years. The chances of you dying because you smoked are 42% greater than those who didn't
So in short, in three years time it will have been a healthier decision to have smoked than to not afford health care.
And you can justify this how 333 and tony? How do you justify letting this go on is this what this country has come to. All the anger of 9/11 and terrorist attacks in New York, not one of you questions the spending of the pentagon in the wars fought because of that. Yet here you are questioning spending on trying to keep the 45,000 Americans, who die each year because of no insurance, alive. Where is the justification for that? What because the Americans aren't dying on your TV or in front of your eyes you aren't outraged?
Go spend time reading the constitution insteading of watching Sesame Street and tell me where the Fed Gov is responsible for health care?
The govt is mandated by the Const. to do a few things, one of them being national defense. Health care is not in there.
The govt, like in the housing mess, is respoonsible for this state of affairs we are in, yet, Kool Aide and the Gang still believe in the Tooth Fairy Govt who is going to leave a dollar under your pillow and give you everything for free.
You and 240 mst have went to the same schools with the utter nonsense you post.
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Some democrats, some 140 of them, are caught in a 22. Meaning, they are for reform, but not the nominclature in Obama's plan, meaning a public option. The reports out today show this number are sketchy on this. They seek office another term and hear the cries of the American people at the town halls, and the march on Wash. DC. So, the big hurt here is the dems hold all the cards. They can force whatever they want on us. But they will face the consequences. And the outcry has caused them to pause a bit. The more we learn that many haven't even read the bill, and there's pork up the wazzuu in it like the stim bill. They are afraid, and it shows, otherwise this thing would have passed a long time ago. Why do you think the democrats tried to pass this bill at 3am? Now, I garee we need changes in our system, but nothing that will increase premiums, taxes and sorry if I offend, but illegals are not, NOT to get coverage. So, remember and pay attention to what gets passed and something will soon enough. Then next year, be sure you remember those who passed it when you have that lever in your hand.
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You and 240 mst have went to the same schools with the utter nonsense you post.
LOL...
You're a lawyer who believes unless a man denies a quote about him, it's true.
Sounds like we have the same bubble gum education, no? ;)
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I'm not in favor of giving health care to everyone, particular illegals.
However, I am in favor of checking costs, using any necessary means.
Im not in favor of giving health care to anyone including illegals im in favor of making it more affordable
our views arent to far off 240 the difference is you still butt plug for the dems and obama why is that?
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LOL...
You're a lawyer who believes unless a man denies a quote about him, it's true.
Sounds like we have the same bubble gum education, no? ;)
I said it adds to the plot and it certainly does. Obama has lied about his past, lied about his associations, lied about everything, yet you still believe every nonsensical thing he says. Incredible.
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Go spend time reading the constitution insteading of watching Sesame Street and tell me where the Fed Gov is responsible for health care?
The govt is mandated by the Const. to do a few things, one of them being national defense. Health care is not in there.
The govt, like in the housing mess, is respoonsible for this state of affairs we are in, yet, Kool Aide and the Gang still believe in the Tooth Fairy Govt who is going to leave a dollar under your pillow and give you everything for free.
You and 240 mst have went to the same schools with the utter nonsense you post.
So to you defending people from outside threats is more important than the dying masses inside? Nice logic there 333.
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LOL nice stat but it leaves a lot in the dark as well what were the causes of death for those ppl?
Read the study for yourself. It's readily findable.
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So to you defending people from outside threats is more important than the dying masses inside? Nice logic there 333.
Im defending the constitution, maybe you should put down your coloring book and read it for once.
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Im defending the constitution, maybe you should put down your coloring book and read it for once.
So you would rather put out the fire on the grass outside your house than stop the larger fire on the inside? Nice one 333 nice one.
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Read the study for yourself. It's readily findable.
its not my job to prove your point its yours
as of now that stat doesnt mean much
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Im not in favor of giving health care to anyone including illegals im in favor of making it more affordable
our views arent to far off 240 the difference is you still butt plug for the dems and obama why is that?
You are in favor of giving illegals cheaper healthcare when they broke the law and came here illegally? That makes sense to you?
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U don't deserve a handout KC...thats not what this country is all about. We have enough social prgrams and bullshit. National Defense and the funds to provide it are a cornerstone of the Constitution and one of the main things Uncle Sam is supposed to do...he is not supposed to give u free medical care. He can make it more fair by allowing insurance companies to operate across state lines...he can cap ridiculous law suits and he can begin to bounce the aliens who are draining our resources..so u have more. In fact he's supposed to do that for u. He is not supposed to waste ur money on bullshit.
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You are in favor of giving illegals cheaper healthcare when they broke the law and came here illegally? That makes sense to you?
It safe to say he's not.
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its not my job to prove your point its yours
as of now that stat doesnt mean much
I did i posted a conclusion from a study. You can read it and refute it or just pretend it's a liberal lie and hide under your bed hoping one day you don't become one of the growing % without health care.
Oh wait you won't have to because we have the public option on the way!
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U don't deserve a handout KC...thats not what this country is all about. We have enough social prgrams and bullshit. National Defense and the funds to provide it are a cornerstone of the Constitution and one of the main things Uncle Sam is supposed to do...he is not supposed to give u free medical care. He can make it more fair by allowing insurance companies to operate across state lines...he can cap ridiculous law suits and he can begin to bounce the aliens who are draining our resources..so u have more. In fact he's supposed to do that for u. He is not supposed to waste ur money on bullshit.
Who says it's a handout? I'll be paying my tax dollars for it so how is that a handout?
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I did i posted a conclusion from a study. You can read it and refute it or just pretend it's a liberal lie and hide under your bed hoping one day you don't become one of the growing % without health care.
Oh wait you won't have to because we have the public option on the way!
Great - a sprint to national bankruptcy.
In case you have not noticed KC - we are broke and the dollar is near collapsed because of our existing debt.
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I'm in favor of treating illegals, breaking their leg and putting it in a cast, then shipping them out of here.
The next walk across the border won't be for months when they've healed.
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I'm in favor of treating illegals, breaking their leg and putting it in a cast, then shipping them out of here.
The next walk across the border won't be for months when they've healed.
Take it up with your Massa Nobama, he is not for that.
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I did i posted a conclusion from a study. You can read it and refute it or just pretend it's a liberal lie and hide under your bed hoping one day you don't become one of the growing % without health care.
Oh wait you won't have to because we have the public option on the way!
i never called it a liberal lie did i?
I said it was unconvincing and it is as i said it leaves alot in the dark the majority of that 40% could have died whether they had health insurance or not, thus my asking what the causes of death were.