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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Signifying Monkey on October 09, 2009, 02:05:55 AM
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Seems like the kind of thing you guys are interested in, so i thought I'd inform you
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yup
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Peace and literature are like the affirmative action prizes compared to the other Nobels (physics, chemistry...). Other illustrious winners of the peace prize include Yasir Arafat
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???
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::)
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he needs the money
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hmmmm....
recognition from a world body, plus over a million dollars....
Sandra
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hmmmm....
recognition from a world body, plus over a million dollars....
Sandra
What a joke. Serious, Obama was nominated for this after only something like 2 weeks or months in office.
Other than:
1. Going on a world apology tour
2. Reaching out to Iran & Hugo Chavez
3. Giving Qaddafi's daughters 400K
4. Telling the taliban that they can be part of the future Afghan govt.
5. Giving a ridiculous speech at the U.N.
I have no idea what he has done to warrant this award. But heck, Jimmy Carter, Arafat, and Al Gore got this too so he is in good company.
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I don't think he's "worthy" of it.
Maybe he will in the future.
But the peace prize is for those who's actually accomplished something.
Eg, if Obama would've secured a long lasting deal with Israel-Palestine, that would've been something to consider.
But that hasn't happened.
I think Obama himself will be very low-key about it too btw.
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And Fox News is going apeshit!!!
;D
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This is a joke right?
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This is a joke right?
it actually isn't ???
Isn't Bono or some random dude more deserving? ehhhh
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Oh for f**ks sake, next to him getting elected this has got to be the biggest bunch of bullshit in the history of mankind. There people on here more worthy than what that moron has done!!
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Oh for f**ks sake, next to him getting elected this has got to be the biggest bunch of bullshit in the history of mankind. There people on here more worthy than what that moron has done!!
Lech Walensa, a truly deserving, former winner, said O has not proven himself as of yet to receive such an honor
propaganda
the Nobel committee said that the honor may spur him to follow through on his promises
Kinda like giving the Heisman to someone who may be able to run fast
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A far left organisation would have been salivating art the idea of giving this to a black man.
He has done some good things in my opinion but has not yet seen them through, political leftie shit, rather than rewarding someone deserving.
If he delivers then he WILL deserve it then
ta ta
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I just heard the deadline for the prize application was 2 weeks after his presidency......can you say RIGGED.
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If O would like to improve his approval ratings
he would say, 'Look, guys, thanks...but I gotta give this back. Give me some time...I want to truly prove myself...give it to someone who has actually done something....'
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Not with his ego.
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This just proves how much bullshit this really is. What the fuck has he done to deserve this?? Not a damn thing. >:(
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He should be hitten with a stick while he sleeps.
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A media produced president that the left side will do anything to make look good, including giving him undeserved recognition for things he has never done. There will be more of this in the future just watch. Next thing ya know they will release a cure for AIDS and tell everyone that Obama was the sole person responsible for it. Our country is starting to turn into a total joke.
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LMAO!!! Let the meltdowns begin...I love this shit! I can hear Glenn Beck, Hannity, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh now. ;D
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LMAO!!! Let the meltdowns begin...I love this shit! I can hear Glenn Beck, Hannity, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh now. ;D
Wiggs, all jokes aside, what has Obama done to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize??
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"for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"
www.nobelprize.org
"The Nobel Peace Prize is an award presented to either an individual or an organization in accordance with Alfred Nobel’s living will. Alfred Nobel, creator of the five Nobel Prizes, was a Swedish inventor and industrialist. He disposed the Nobel Peace Prize in his will to be awarded to “the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between the nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." The Nobel Peace Prize differs from the Nobel Prizes in literature, physics, chemistry, and medicine or physiology in that it may be presented not only to individuals, but also to organizations that are actively engaged in a process or effort that intends to promote world peace. The prize can be awarded for current efforts, rather than for having accomplished a goal or resolved an issue."
www.wisegeek.com
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"for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"
www.nobelprize.org
Oh please. The only way I would be more frustrated would be if they gave it to George W. lol...This really is getting out of hand :-\
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Wow this is a little too much. From what I've gathered even the people that initially supported him thinks this is bullshit.
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Oh please. The only way I would be more frustrated would be if they gave it to George W. lol...This really is getting out of hand :-\
I wonder what extraordinary efforts they're talking about ???
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maybe usa will become popular again
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Having been awarded since 1901, the Nobel Peace Prize is considered a very astute recognition, but some past nominees and recipients have created controversy. Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939, but the nomination was retracted. Other nominees include Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini, and Yasser Arafat. Arafat received the Nobel Peace Prize, as did Henry Kissinger and Mikhail Gorbachev. Due to the practice of awarding the Nobel Peace Prize based on a work in progress, it stands to reason that some recipients may seem like poor choices in hindsight; however, many recipients have been life-long promoters of peace and human rights, such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, and the Dalai Lama.
An individual or organization may be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by any qualifying individual, including former recipients, university professors, international leaders, and members of national assemblies. The list of nominees is kept private each year, and though a group or individual may later be referred to as a Nobel Peace Prize nominee, this title bears no official merit. Nominees and recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize between 1901 and 1951 are currently compiled into a database. There are those who publicly criticize the Nobel Peace Prize as being politically slanted to the left and failing to recognize true merit, but even with past controversy, the Nobel Peace Prize continues to be an astute recognition that few would decline to accept.
www.wisegeek.com
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Having been awarded since 1901, the Nobel Peace Prize is considered a very astute recognition, but some past nominees and recipients have created controversy. Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939, but the nomination was retracted. Other nominees include Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini, and Yasser Arafat. Arafat received the Nobel Peace Prize, as did Henry Kissinger and Mikhail Gorbachev. Due to the practice of awarding the Nobel Peace Prize based on a work in progress, it stands to reason that some recipients may seem like poor choices in hindsight; however, many recipients have been life-long promoters of peace and human rights, such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, and the Dalai Lama.
An individual or organization may be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by any qualifying individual, including former recipients, university professors, international leaders, and members of national assemblies. The list of nominees is kept private each year, and though a group or individual may later be referred to as a Nobel Peace Prize nominee, this title bears no official merit. Nominees and recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize between 1901 and 1951 are currently compiled into a database. There are those who publicly criticize the Nobel Peace Prize as being politically slanted to the left and failing to recognize true merit, but even with past controversy, the Nobel Peace Prize continues to be an astute recognition that few would decline to accept.
www.wisegeek.com
I think they should have a rule of waiting at least 10 years after the "good deed" has been done until they hand out the prize.
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Terrific-- Obama is in good company! ::)
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maybe usa will become popular again
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I think they should have a rule of waiting at least 10 years after the "good deed" has been done until they hand out the price.
The only good deed he could do at this point is resign. ;D
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He should be hitten with a stick while he sleeps.
Did you order the Code Red??!!
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Did you order the Code Red??!!
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
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I wonder what extraordinary efforts they're talking about ???
I think Obama got the Prize for changing the direction fairly dramatically after George W Bush.
No. I don't think he should have been awarded the Peace Prize.
Shit, he hasn't even been able to close the Guantanamo yet.
Or ended the Iraqi war.
And he's considering sending in even more troops in Afghanistan.
Does that sound like a man that should receive a Peace Prize?
Not IMO.
But there has been change since George W Bush. But hell, anything would've been change considering what a war mongerer that guy was.
So my guess is that the Prize is awarded because of the change in direction.
From a world leader that tried to start war on the whole world to someone who's not.
That seems like you're kinda rewarding someone for NOT stealing. For NOT raping.
You're not rewarding good behavior. You're rewarding "NOT bad behavior".
Which is utterly stupid.
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I think Obama got the Prize for changing the direction fairly dramatically after George W Bush.
No. I don't think he should have been awarded the Peace Prize.
Shit, he hasn't even been able to close the Guantanamo yet.
Or ended the Iraqi war.
And he's considering sending in even more troops in Afghanistan.
Does that sound like a man that should receive a Peace Prize?
Not IMO.
But there has been change since George W Bush. But hell, anything would've been change considering what a war mongerer that guy was.
So my guess is that the Prize is awarded because of the change in direction.
From a world leader that tried to start war on the whole world to someone who's not.
That seems like you're kinda rewarding someone for NOT stealing. For NOT raping.
You're not rewarding good behavior. You're rewarding "NOT bad behavior".
Which is utterly stupid.
He's only been there for 9 months and is already on a downward trajectory. For his own sake, the best thing he could do is reject this award.
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Hedge- out of curiosity. Do you think the US is justified in invading Afghanistan?
I'm just asking because while I don't agree with the Iraq war, it is clear we have won and the world is a lot better off without Saddam. However, I can understand how one could consider Iraq as an unnecessary/unjust war.
However, Afghanistan is non negotiable proposition IMO and must be won no matter how long it takes. If we let those responsible for 911 walk, the US might as well disband the entire country and let Bin Laden become president.
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Wiggs, all jokes aside, what has Obama done to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize??
I love Obama but he hasn't done jackshit for a Nobel. I'm as shocked as everyone else.
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I wonder what extraordinary efforts they're talking about ???
Wonderful speeches, of course!
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He's only been there for 9 months and is already on a downward trajectory. For his own sake, the best thing he could do is reject this award.
You just can't do that.
But I bet you he will be very low key about it.
Obama is many things. But stupid isn't one of those.
My guess the Nobel Peace Prize, if anything, will give USA some power in international talks the next few years.
USA has been winning a lot of those awards recently.
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Hedge- out of curiosity. Do you think the US is justified in invading Afghanistan?
I'm just asking because while I don't agree with the Iraq war, it is clear we have won and the world is a lot better off without Saddam. However, I can understand how one could consider Iraq as an unnecessary/unjust war.
However, Afghanistan is non negotiable proposition IMO and must be won no matter how long it takes. If we let those responsible for 911 walk, the US might as well disband the entire country and let Bin Laden become president.
The only difference between Obama & Osama is BS.
;D ;D ;D
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LOL... now the republicans have to minimize how important the noobel prize is....look for that this will speak top moderate voters in a major way.
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LOL... now the republicans have to minimize how important the noobel prize is....look for that this will speak top moderate voters in a major way.
No, my GF is probably the least political person I know and she thought this was utter garbage.
This has everything to do with liberal white guilt.
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Hedge- out of curiosity. Do you think the US is justified in invading Afghanistan?
I'm just asking because while I don't agree with the Iraq war, it is clear we have won and the world is a lot better off without Saddam. However, I can understand how one could consider Iraq as an unnecessary/unjust war.
However, Afghanistan is non negotiable proposition IMO and must be won no matter how long it takes. If we let those responsible for 911 walk, the US might as well disband the entire country and let Bin Laden become president.
I don't think USA is justified in overtaking Afghanistan.
But I do think that USA is justified in going after terrorists in Afghanistan in most way USA sees necessary, as long as there aren't any civilian casualities.
Of course there will be some civilian casualties anyways, but you get my point I think.
I think that if one or two are killed by accident, then that cannot stop an operation by the USA to get those responsible.
But destroying whole villages or genocidal shit... No.
It seems like USA somewhere along the way has gotten sidetracked though.
Now it seems like it's more about defeating the Taliban and seizing control over a specific region than to actually hunt down Bin-Laden and Al-Qaida leadership.
Look, I don't like the Talibans or the war lords of the region anymore than anyone else.
But I see so many wrongs done up in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
In Afghanistan eg, any war lord won't be hassled by the USA as long as they are anti-Talibans. They can be the biggest war criminals in the history. And the locals see these war lords get a free pass by the Americans, how the hell are these locals not going to hate the US and then later on back the Talibans?
It's damn complicated.
I read somewhere that soldiers thought that when they came to Vietnam, things were so totally different from what their officers said things were like in WWII.
The gooks were a completely different breed. They would never budge. It was a war that never could be won.
And now USA, once again totally supreme in firepower, fights a war in a distant part of the world.
This time, the climate is even more extreme. Cold, dry, warm.
And against soldiers who are driven by a cause we cannot fathom. A rage we haven't seen.
In Afghanistan, USA may be truly lost IMO.
But do USA have a "right" to go after Al-Qaida there? Yes. I think so.
Is that why they are there now though?
I don't think so.
Wouldn't a special op team of say 500-1 000 soldiers be able to search and destroy for Bin-Laden just as efficient?
I am no military expert.
Just asking.
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I don't think USA is justified in overtaking Afghanistan.
But I do think that USA is justified in going after terrorists in Afghanistan in most way USA sees necessary, as long as there aren't any civilian casualities.
Of course there will be some civilian casualties anyways, but you get my point I think.
I think that if one or two are killed by accident, then that cannot stop an operation by the USA to get those responsible.
But destroying whole villages or genocidal shit... No.
It seems like USA somewhere along the way has gotten sidetracked though.
Now it seems like it's more about defeating the Taliban and seizing control over a specific region than to actually hunt down Bin-Laden and Al-Qaida leadership.
Look, I don't like the Talibans or the war lords of the region anymore than anyone else.
But I see so many wrongs done up in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
In Afghanistan eg, any war lord won't be hassled by the USA as long as they are anti-Talibans. They can be the biggest war criminals in the history. And the locals see these war lords get a free pass by the Americans, how the hell are these locals not going to hate the US and then later on back the Talibans?
It's damn complicated.
I read somewhere that soldiers thought that when they came to Vietnam, things were so totally different from what their officers said things were like in WWII.
The gooks were a completely different breed. They would never budge. It was a war that never could be won.
And now USA, once again totally supreme in firepower, fights a war in a distant part of the world.
This time, the climate is even more extreme. Cold, dry, warm.
And against soldiers who are driven by a cause we cannot fathom. A rage we haven't seen.
In Afghanistan, USA may be truly lost IMO.
But do USA have a "right" to go after Al-Qaida there? Yes. I think so.
Is that why they are there now though?
I don't think so.
Wouldn't a special op team of say 500-1 000 soldiers be able to search and destroy for Bin-Laden just as efficient?
I am no military expert.
Just asking.
The Taliban were the ruling government at the time of the attacks and refused to deal with the US. You can't have it both ways.
You should read Ghost Wars if you think that a special ops team is capable of capturing or killing Al Qaeda members while the Taliban are in control. It's been tried before.
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Hedge- out of curiosity. Do you think the US is justified in invading Afghanistan?
I'm just asking because while I don't agree with the Iraq war, it is clear we have won and the world is a lot better off without Saddam. However, I can understand how one could consider Iraq as an unnecessary/unjust war.
However, Afghanistan is non negotiable proposition IMO and must be won no matter how long it takes. If we let those responsible for 911 walk, the US might as well disband the entire country and let Bin Laden become president.
No, don't you realize that the more time the US spends chasing this ghost called Bin Laden the more the terrorists have gained?
The terrorists have already won by country miles. All they needed was a couple of religious extremists and a handful of carpet knives and they single handedly changed the global political scene for a long time to come.
Every time you think it's a hassle to go through airport security checks, they've won. Every time billions of tax dollars are spent on extra homeland security, they've won. Every time 9/11 has been used for cheap political purposes, they've won. Every time the US starts a war because of this, they've won.
Honestly, the best thing would have been if everyone just forgot about 9/11.
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...This has everything to do with liberal white guilt.
As opposed to the rocket science views of conservative white trash.
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LMAO!!! Let the meltdowns begin...I love this shit! I can hear Glenn Beck, Hannity, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh now. ;D
Ha ha ha! One of my first thoughts was the meltdowns that were going to be on Getbig.
Let the fun begin!
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As opposed to the rocket science views of conservative white trash.
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Honestly, the best thing would have been if everyone just forgot about 9/11.
Yeah, because then they would have left us alone. ::)
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No, don't you realize that the more time the US spends chasing this ghost called Bin Laden the more the terrorists have gained?
The terrorists have already won by country miles. All they needed was a couple of religious extremists and a handful of carpet knives and they single handedly changed the global political scene for a long time to come.
Every time you think it's a hassle to go through airport security checks, they've won. Every time billions of tax dollars are spent on extra homeland security, they've won. Every time 9/11 has been used for cheap political purposes, they've won. Every time the US starts a war because of this, they've won.
Honestly, the best thing would have been if everyone just forgot about 9/11.
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No, don't you realize that the more time the US spends chasing this ghost called Bin Laden the more the terrorists have gained?
The terrorists have already won by country miles. All they needed was a couple of religious extremists and a handful of carpet knives and they single handedly changed the global political scene for a long time to come.
Every time you think it's a hassle to go through airport security checks, they've won. Every time billions of tax dollars are spent on extra homeland security, they've won. Every time 9/11 has been used for cheap political purposes, they've won. Every time the US starts a war because of this, they've won.
Honestly, the best thing would have been if everyone just forgot about 9/11.
Good plan. Do you have Down Syndrome?
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Wow, this is pretty shocking. Even many Obama supporters have to be wondering why. He really hasn't done that much outside of a few speeches after being elected. There just isn't enough substance there. Perhaps they like his overall tone? I don't know man, this is a bit creepy...just like it was when the media were jumping all over him during the campaign.
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He's only been there for 9 months and is already on a downward trajectory. For his own sake, the best thing he could do is reject this award.
It really is the best thing he can do
mark my words if he accepts it there will be no surge in afghanistan ???
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It's like they have chosen him based on potential or maybe they see him as more of a man of the world rather than a man of the U.S.
I truely believe that Obama and others on the far left are much more concerned with the world than their own country.
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It's like they have chosen him based on potential or maybe they see him as more of a man of the world rather than a man of the U.S.
I truely believe that Obama and others on the far left are much more concerned with the world than their own country.
I think this has more to do with the fact that they can give it to him now before he does so much damage as to never warrant it in the future.
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The Drugster - Defacto leader of the GOP - The epitome of conservative a$$wipe
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Yeah, because then they would have left us alone. ::)
Good plan. Do you have Down Syndrome?
Hahaha, yes the war against terror has been so successful ::)
If you look beyond "revenge"... is it worth it? I remember reading some time ago about the new security systems they've implemented in the american airports where they often interrogate you, take fingerprints and also check your luggage by hand etc. Being paranoid dicks in general. Apparently, after several years since its inception they haven't caught a single "terrorist". The terrorists that have been caught plotting terrible deeds have had surveillance on them for a long time prior, kinda like how it used to be before 9/11.
Don't you realize that this paranoid hunt for terrorists is quite the self-owning? 3k people died at the WTC and I can imagine revenge would be sweet for you guys but at what cost? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't exactly helped in terms of eliminating threats, rather the opposite. And meanwhile it's costing the US enormous amounts of tax dollars and thousands of lives. Where is the trial being held for Bin Laden right now? Oh snap that's right, he hasn't been caught. But hey it has only been EIGHT years since the attack ::)
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The Drugster - Defacto leader of the GOP - The epitome of conservative a$$wipe
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I think this has more to do with the fact that they can give it to him now before he does so much damage as to never warrant it in the future.
LMFAO...
Or if they give him the award now, he will have to be a peacemaker.
Trying to put the pressure on.
I don't know, just looks weird.
But hey.
Maybe it's just us that doesn't grab how brilliant this Obama guy really is.
I mean, we're all talking about him 24/7. The media won't ever stop discussing him.
He's like this super phenomenon.
It's like when Kennedy hit the stages, I'd imagine.
The Obama generation! ;D
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For what..what has he done..he's done nothing. NOTHING
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LMFAO...
Or if they give him the award now, he will have to be a peacemaker.
Trying to put the pressure on.
I don't know, just looks weird.
But hey.
Maybe it's just us that doesn't grab how brilliant this Obama guy really is.
I mean, we're all talking about him 24/7. The media won't ever stop discussing him.
He's like this super phenomenon.
It's like when Kennedy hit the stages, I'd imagine.
The Obama generation! ;D
More like this Hedge.
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Hahaha, yes the war against terror has been so successful ::)
If you look beyond "revenge"... is it worth it? I remember reading some time ago about the new security systems they've implemented in the american airports where they often interrogate you, take fingerprints and also check your luggage by hand etc. Being paranoid dicks in general. Apparently, after several years since its inception they haven't caught a single "terrorist". The terrorists that have been caught plotting terrible deeds have had surveillance on them for a long time prior, kinda like how it used to be before 9/11.
Don't you realize that this paranoid hunt for terrorists is quite the self-owning? 3k people died at the WTC and I can imagine revenge would be sweet for you guys but at what cost? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't exactly helped in terms of eliminating threats, rather the opposite. And meanwhile it's costing the US enormous amounts of tax dollars and thousands of lives. Where is the trial being held for Bin Laden right now? Oh snap that's right, he hasn't been caught. But hey it has only been EIGHT years since the attack ::)
Wow I guess ur another uninformed idiot...welcvome to the board. AQ is pretty much worthless now in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Iraq was the grave yard of AQ..their best and brightest are dead..they flocked there ands we stomped them. Whats left went back to Afghanistan and found the Taliban to be not so friendly this time around. They're trying to go back and fight in Africa..we'll see how that works out. These people hate us, they hate the West, they don't stop...
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I remember reading some time ago about the new security systems they've implemented in the american airports where they often interrogate you, take fingerprints and also check your luggage by hand etc. Being paranoid dicks in general. Apparently, after several years since its inception they haven't caught a single "terrorist".
Airport security is not there to "catch" terrorists in the act per se. It's there as a proactive approach to hopefully PREVENT terrorism. Just because there are holes in the system doesn't mean you just stop working towards prevention.
The terrorists that have been caught plotting terrible deeds have had surveillance on them for a long time prior, kinda like how it used to be before 9/11.
And? That approach alone obviously did not help prevent 9/11.
Forgetting 9/11 ever happened suggests we should not learn from our mistakes.
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Wow I guess ur another uninformed idiot...welcvome to the board. AQ is pretty much worthless now in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Iraq was the grave yard of AQ..their best and brightest are dead..they flocked there ands we stomped them. Whats left went back to Afghanistan and found the Taliban to be not so friendly this time around. They're trying to go back and fight in Africa..we'll see how that works out. These people hate us, they hate the West, they don't stop...
And how many lives and tax dollars did this cost America?
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Hahaha, yes the war against terror has been so successful ::)
If you look beyond "revenge"... is it worth it? I remember reading some time ago about the new security systems they've implemented in the american airports where they often interrogate you, take fingerprints and also check your luggage by hand etc. Being paranoid dicks in general. Apparently, after several years since its inception they haven't caught a single "terrorist". The terrorists that have been caught plotting terrible deeds have had surveillance on them for a long time prior, kinda like how it used to be before 9/11.
Don't you realize that this paranoid hunt for terrorists is quite the self-owning? 3k people died at the WTC and I can imagine revenge would be sweet for you guys but at what cost? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't exactly helped in terms of eliminating threats, rather the opposite.
try educating yourself instead of listening to code pink moron there have been thwarts at airports and on planes after 9/11
your thoughts are we should have no extra precautions? ::)
I think we have eliminated plenty of threats in iraq and afghanistan how many jihadist have been cleansed of this earth?
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Airport security is not there to "catch" terrorists in the act per se. It's there as a proactive approach to hopefully PREVENT terrorism. Just because there are holes in the system doesn't mean you just stop working towards prevention.
And? That approach alone obviously did not help prevent 9/11.
Forgetting 9/11 ever happened suggests we should not learn from our mistakes.
I just flew back from the states a couple of days ago. I had a bunch of shit in my carry on luggage that could easily have been converted into sharp weapons if I wanted to. Terrorists will always find loopholes and ways to get around security. But it's 99% likely that their next attack won't be via airplanes anyway. Look at Madrid and London.
Don't you also realize that all of these paranoid security checks everywhere you go is also a form of terrorism on the people? As I've said, the terrorists have already won, you're doing the work for them. They could not have hoped for better results.
What if I phrase it as "time to move on from 9/11"?
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try educating yourself instead of listening to code pink moron there have been thwarts at airports and on planes prior to 9/11
your thoughts are we should have no extra precautions? ::)
I think we have eliminated plenty of threats in iraq and afghanistan how many jihadist have been cleansed of this earth?
Alright, look at it from another perspective. Assuming you had no family members in the WTC, what has caused you the most hassle/pain since 9/11: The attack itself or the way your government reacted to it?
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I just flew back from the states a couple of days ago. I had a bunch of shit in my carry on luggage that could easily have been converted into sharp weapons if I wanted to. Terrorists will always loopholes and ways to get around security. But it's 99% likely that their next attack won't be via airplanes anyway. Look at Madrid and London.
Don't you also realize that all of these paranoid security checks everywhere you go is also a form of terrorism on the people? As I've said, the terrorists have already won, you're doing the work for them. They could not have hoped for better results.
What if I phrase it as "time to move on from 9/11"?
so your idiotic idea is to let down our guard at airports?
youre an idiot stfu and leave this isnt the G&O you actually have to be able to put together a coherent thought to be able to post on this board.
maybe we should just let them bomb us at will? sound good to you?
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Alright, look at it from another perspective. Assuming you had no family members in the WTC, what has caused you the most hassle/pain since 9/11: The attack itself or the way your government reacted to it?
how would you have expected the govt to react to it?
i assume that b/c you said "your" youre not american and if thats the case why the fuck do you care or even have an opinion?
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how would you have expected the govt to react to it?
i assume that b/c you said "your" youre not american and if thats the case why the fuck do you care or even have an opinion?
You didn't answer the question. But I'm pretty sure what your HONEST answer would be.
I care because the entire western world was affected by those attacks and america played a huge role in it, you dumbass.
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Don't you also realize that all of these paranoid security checks everywhere you go is also a form of terrorism on the people? As I've said, the terrorists have already won, you're doing the work for them. They could not have hoped for better results.
What if I phrase it as "time to move on from 9/11"?
No, reasonable precautions are not a form of terrorism. Air travel is sensitive and there is nothing wrong with attempting to thoroughly vet people who need/wish to fly.
I work on a military base. I'm searched regularly. Hell, I've even had MP's stick their dirty fingers in my protein powder (that one really grossed me out). But, I can apply common sense. Working around highly sensitive areas/data means that I should be checked out thoroughly. That does not mean my rights are being violated. That does not mean AQ is winning. That's not terrorism.
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We've hijacked this thread and I apologize to the OP.
As to the topic...Obama didn't EARN it.
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We've hijacked this thread and I apologize to the OP.
As to the topic...Obama didn't EARN it.
Obama admits that too. He accepts it as a challenge. in the end, he's the guy with 1.4 million and the world applauding him. now he has to follow thru on this peace agenda. It's not like any other world leader is trying to limit nukes.
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so your idiotic idea is to let down our guard at airports?
youre an idiot stfu and leave this isnt the G&O you actually have to be able to put together a coherent thought to be able to post on this board.
maybe we should just let them bomb us at will? sound good to you?
Yes I'm saying governments have gone way overboard in their paranoia. I don't find it surprising either that governments in the western world have used these attacks to gain more power, step by step are we getting closer to police societies. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight terrorism or prevent it. Making your own citizens suspects and have them pay for it is not the way to go though, because then the government itself becomes the terrorist.
One thing I've noticed about americans is that they're very susceptible to fear. Yes, the moment you guys become less paranoid america will automatically blow up, the C4's are already planted ::)
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Obama admits that too. He accepts it as a challenge. in the end, he's the guy with 1.4 million and the world applauding him. now he has to follow thru on this peace agenda. It's not like any other world leader is trying to limit nukes.
This is disgraceful. This pig of a president could not have the humility to step aside and let someone really deserving have it?
What a disgraceful pig this man is.
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LMAO!!! Let the meltdowns begin...I love this shit! I can hear Glenn Beck, Hannity, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh now. ;D
muthafuckin BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! me loves it
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Yes I'm saying governments have gone way overboard in their paranoia. I don't find it surprising either that governments in the western world have used these attacks to gain more power, step by step are we getting closer to police societies. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight terrorism or prevent it. Making your own citizens suspects and have them pay for it is not the way to go though, because then the government itself becomes the terrorist.
One thing I've noticed about americans is that they're very susceptible to fear. Yes, the moment you guys become less paranoid america will automatically blow up, the C4's are already planted ::)
you have yet to say how you would have reacted, they have to check ppl brain child terrorist dont wear uniforms they act like civilians numb nut how would you seek them out?
so again your idiotic plan is to lower our guard at airports etc?
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you have yet to say how you would have reacted, they have to check ppl brain child terrorist dont wear uniforms they act like civilians numb nut how would you seek them out?
so again your idiotic plan is to lower our guard at airports etc?
In case you haven't noticed pretty much all the arrests that have been made on the suspicion of terrorism have been possible because of intelligence/information gathering and detective work. Preemptively. Not by being paranoid at the airports. You could also argue that terrorism is a matter of politics and the best prevention would be to not give people any reasons to be hostile towards you. In many ways america had 9/11 coming sooner or later, not because you're the land of freedom(haha irony) but because you like to stir shit up in different parts of the world.
What sucks about all this is that it's so much easier to escalate fear and security/controlling people than toning it down. So even for me it would seem odd to dismantle the added security we've got over the years. But it's either that or we're headed towards something like "V for Vendetta" or 1984.
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This is a joke right?
ahhaaha NOPE repub crazy, Obama is god like any maybe Christ coming back again, who knows, his good deeds know no bounds, all hail Barak Hussein Obama, I pledge my allegiance to him.
jt
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ahhaaha NOPE repub crazy, Obama is god like any maybe Christ coming back again, who knows, his good deeds know no bounds, all hail Barak Hussein Obama, I pledge my allegiance to him.
jt
Piss be upon him.
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In case you haven't noticed pretty much all the arrests that have been made on the suspicion of terrorism have been possible because of intelligence/information gathering and detective work. Preemptively. Not by being paranoid at the airports. You could also argue that terrorism is a matter of politics and the best prevention would be to not give people any reasons to be hostile towards you. In many ways america had 9/11 coming sooner or later, not because you're the land of freedom(haha irony) but because you like to stir shit up in different parts of the world.
What sucks about all this is that it's so much easier to escalate fear and security/controlling people than toning it down. So even for me it would seem odd to dismantle the added security we've got over the years. But it's either that or we're headed towards something like "V for Vendetta" or 1984.
So the answer is to not check anyone? I like how you give no answers simply deflect and redirect, try answering a question for once brain child.
conflicts always going to happen jack ass there is no utopia you cant please 100% of the ppl 100% of the time sorry whatever european country youre from is lying to you hoss.
AGAIN you still havent said what you would do?
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So the answer is to not check anyone? I like how you give no answers simply deflect and redirect, try answering a question for once brain child.
conflicts always going to happen jack ass there is no utopia you cant please 100% of the ppl 100% of the time sorry whatever european country youre from is lying to you hoss.
AGAIN you still havent said what you would do?
Well, if I really need to spell it for you:
Put more resources into gathering of intelligence and preemptive work and less resources for the anti-"terrorist" Gestapo machine that's been pestering people since 9/11.
Remember, it's not all about airports or security checks. Laws are being passed in europe(and america I'm sure) now that seriously violates peoples integrity and privacy, allows their private emails to be scanned by the police and the collection of data that is not the governments business at all. The kind of laws that would not in any way, shape or form have been possible if it weren't for 9/11. The Patriot Act is a nasty piece of work as well.
A good example of paranoia is a new law that's been passed in the UK that criminalizes the act of taking photos of public property which has caused all sorts of problems for tourists and professional photographers. They're afraid that terrorists are going to plan their evil deeds by taking photos of structures etc but there's tons of ways for them to get around that. All that law does is causing paranoia and making ordinary innocent citizens into suspects.
That's the kind of bullshit that does impact my life.
And please, America is notorious for creating conflicts for economical purposes and political gain. You have your own continent but for some reason your troops and weapons happens to end up pretty much all over the world, I'm sure it's all for peacekeeping. ::)
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Well, if I really need to spell it for you:
Put more resources into gathering of intelligence and preemptive work and less resources for the anti-"terrorist" Gestapo machine that's been pestering people since 9/11.
Remember, it's not all about airports or security checks. Laws are being passed in europe(and america I'm sure) now that seriously violates peoples integrity and privacy, allows their private emails to be scanned by the police and the collection of data that is not the governments business at all. The kind of laws that would not in any way, shape or form have been possible if it weren't for 9/11. The Patriot Act is a nasty piece of work as well.
A good example of paranoia is a new law that's been passed in the UK that criminalizes the act of taking photos of public property which has caused all sorts of problems for tourists and professional photographers. They're afraid that terrorists are going to plan their evil deeds by taking photos of structures etc but there's tons of ways for them to get around that. All that law does is causing paranoia and making ordinary innocent citizens into suspects.
That's the kind of bullshit that does impact my life.
And please, America is notorious for creating conflicts for economical purposes and political gain. You have your own continent but for some reason your troops and weapons happens to end up pretty much all over the world, I'm sure it's all for peacekeeping. ::)
that doesnt mean you stop checking ppl at airports brain child, youre truely a liberal european idiot if you think that checking ppl at airports does nothing ::)
I agree that laws are being passed but how do you think they obtained that info that lead to the thwarting of terrorist?
THROUGH THOSE LAWS JACK ASSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL you cant have it both ways brain child for the love of shit a european liberal should even be able to figure that out.
I agree the law about taking pics is assinine so heres a little tip you worry about your shit and we will worry about ours.
everybody has dumb ass thats nothing new pick up a history book what country are you from Im sure they have done it at one time or another.
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that doesnt mean you stop checking ppl at airports brain child, youre truely a liberal european idiot if you think that checking ppl at airports does nothing ::)
I agree that laws are being passed but how do you think they obtained that info that lead to the thwarting of terrorist?
THROUGH THOSE LAWS JACK ASSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL you cant have it both ways brain child for the love of shit a european liberal should even be able to figure that out.
I agree the law about taking pics is assinine so heres a little tip you worry about your shit and we will worry about ours.
everybody has dumb ass thats nothing new pick up a history book what country are you from Im sure they have done it at one time or another.
Wow, YOU'RE QUITE THE MELTDOWN MACHINE!!!!!!!
Did I at any point say that we should abandon all security checks? Nope. My opinion is just that since 9/11 things have gone overboard.
Fighting terrorism does not require raping your own citizens. There were tons of warning signs before 9/11 but the critical factor was that it didn't get acted upon, it was not a matter of whether the government had invasive gestapo laws at its disposal or not. Terrorists actually got arrested pre 9/11, believe it or not. Terrorists actually successfully committed their crimes post 9/11 even with a big brother government that's supposed to keep us safe, believe it or not.
If everyone "does it" as you put it then I guess you have no trouble with a bunch of russians invading your community with armed forces and make you their bitch? I mean, everyone does it.
I knew it was only a matter of time before the "stupid ass european lib" comments would start rearing their ugly face in your posts. Gosh, what is it with supposedly "conservative" americans and their propaganda-induced tunnel vision of reality?
Honestly man, do whatever makes you happy whether that be encouraging Gestapo laws, salute the american war machine or reporting your neighbor for "suspicious" activity.
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Hahaha, yes the war against terror has been so successful ::)
Yes, so far it has been. We haven't had an attack on our soil in 8 years. But since Obama has taken office it's getting down right scary. More threats, more attacks on our troops, Obama taking his time on troop deployment, McChrystal basically having to track Obama down an cornering him for an answer while he's off to Copenhagen with a talk show host trying to get the Olympics and getting shot down in the first round.
His priorities are completely wacked.
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Wow, YOU'RE QUITE THE MELTDOWN MACHINE!!!!!!!
Did I at any point say that we should abandon all security checks? Nope. My opinion is just that since 9/11 things have gone overboard.
Fighting terrorism does not require raping your own citizens. There were tons of warning signs before 9/11 but the critical factor was that it didn't get acted upon, it was not a matter of whether the government had invasive gestapo laws at its disposal or not. Terrorists actually got arrested pre 9/11, believe it or not. Terrorists actually successfully committed their crimes post 9/11 even with a big brother government that's supposed to keep us safe, believe it or not.
If everyone "does it" as you put it then I guess you have no trouble with a bunch of russians invading your community with armed forces and make you their bitch? I mean, everyone does it.
I knew it was only a matter of time before the "stupid ass european lib" comments would start rearing their ugly face in your posts. Gosh, what is it with supposedly "conservative" americans and their propaganda-induced tunnel vision of reality?
Honestly man, do whatever makes you happy whether that be encouraging Gestapo laws, salute the american war machine or reporting your neighbor for "suspicious" activity.
sorry hoss again this isnt the G&O the whole melt down bs doesnt work here
I like how you didnt address my point about the thwarting of the terrorist plots and how that info was obtained, thats ok i wouldnt either if i were you as it makes you look like quite the dolt ;)
so other then those laws we know you are for b/c you cite their results as good things what raping of our citizens do we do?
and as for the russian comment if i lived in europe i would be glad you have america with russia there b/c your little ass aint gonna do shit but ask us for help bro
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This is disgraceful. This pig of a president could not have the humility to step aside and let someone really deserving have it?
Al Gore wins Nobel Prize over woman who saved 2,500 lives
www.liveleak.com
Warsaw, Poland - Irena Sendler - credited with saving some 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazi Holocaust by smuggling them out of the Warsaw Ghetto, some of them in baskets - died Monday, her family said. She was 98.
Sendler was a 29-year-old social worker with the city's welfare department when Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, launching World War II. Warsaw's Jews were forced into More..a walled-off ghetto.
Seeking to save the ghetto's children, Sendler masterminded risky rescue operations. Under the pretext of inspecting sanitary conditions during a typhoid outbreak, she and her assistants ventured inside the ghetto - and smuggled out babies and small children in ambulances and in trams, sometimes wrapped up as packages.
Teenagers escaped by joining teams of workers forced to labor outside the ghetto. They were placed in families, orphanages, hospitals or convents.
Records show that Sendler's team of about 20 people saved nearly 2,500 children from the Warsaw Ghetto between October 1940 and its final liquidation in April 1943, when the Nazis burned the ghetto, shooting the residents or sending them to death camps.
In hopes of one day uniting the children with their families - most of whom perished in the Nazis' death camps, Sendler wrote the children's real names on slips of paper that she kept at home.
When German police came to arrest her in 1943, an assistant managed to hide the slips, which Sendler later buried in a jar under an apple tree in an associate's yard. Some 2,500 names were recorded.
Anyone caught helping Jews in Nazi-occupied Poland risked being summarily shot, along with family members - a fate Sendler only barely escaped herself after the 1943 raid by the Gestapo. The Nazis took her to the notorious Pawiak prison, which few people left alive. Gestapo agents tortured her repeatedly, leaving Sendler with scars on her body - but she refused to betray her team. Zegota, an underground organization helping Jews, paid a bribe to German guards to free her from the prison. Under a different name, she continued her work.
After World War II, Sendler continued to assist some of the children she rescued.
Irena Sendler was nominated for the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize, but did not win. The winner was Al Gore who narrated a slide show.
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Al Gore wins Nobel Prize over woman who saved 2,500 lives
Warsaw, Poland - Irena Sendler - credited with saving some 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazi Holocaust by smuggling them out of the Warsaw Ghetto, some of them in baskets - died Monday, her family said. She was 98.
Sendler was a 29-year-old social worker with the city's welfare department when Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, launching World War II. Warsaw's Jews were forced into More..a walled-off ghetto.
Seeking to save the ghetto's children, Sendler masterminded risky rescue operations. Under the pretext of inspecting sanitary conditions during a typhoid outbreak, she and her assistants ventured inside the ghetto - and smuggled out babies and small children in ambulances and in trams, sometimes wrapped up as packages.
Teenagers escaped by joining teams of workers forced to labor outside the ghetto. They were placed in families, orphanages, hospitals or convents.
Records show that Sendler's team of about 20 people saved nearly 2,500 children from the Warsaw Ghetto between October 1940 and its final liquidation in April 1943, when the Nazis burned the ghetto, shooting the residents or sending them to death camps.
In hopes of one day uniting the children with their families - most of whom perished in the Nazis' death camps, Sendler wrote the children's real names on slips of paper that she kept at home.
When German police came to arrest her in 1943, an assistant managed to hide the slips, which Sendler later buried in a jar under an apple tree in an associate's yard. Some 2,500 names were recorded.
Anyone caught helping Jews in Nazi-occupied Poland risked being summarily shot, along with family members - a fate Sendler only barely escaped herself after the 1943 raid by the Gestapo. The Nazis took her to the notorious Pawiak prison, which few people left alive. Gestapo agents tortured her repeatedly, leaving Sendler with scars on her body - but she refused to betray her team. Zegota, an underground organization helping Jews, paid a bribe to German guards to free her from the prison. Under a different name, she continued her work.
After World War II, Sendler continued to assist some of the children she rescued.
Irena Sendler was nominated for the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize, but did not win. The winner was Al Gore who narrated a slide show.
gore saves the planet
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Obama admits that too. He accepts it as a challenge. in the end, he's the guy with 1.4 million and the world applauding him. now he has to follow thru on this peace agenda. It's not like any other world leader is trying to limit nukes.
1.4mil won't even cover the cost of the trip when he goes to accept it, they should spend the $40.00 and ship it FED EX. And right now the world is laughing at him not applauding him.
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gore saves the planet
How?
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gore saves the planet
Hahahaha.........sure he did.
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gore saves the planet
bush saved many live in africa with his aids help
much more then obama has done thus far certainly more then obama had done with the first 2 weeks of his presidency which was the cut off for nominations...
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And how many lives and tax dollars did this cost America?
Hedge I can go back and forth with in a civilized discussion about Afghanistan. You on the other hand have demonstrated a total seperation from intelligence and reality with the above posting.
By your moronic standards, the terrorists won on 911 and there is no way to ever defeat them because there is tighter airport security and more taxation??? Do you remember the state of the country on 9/12/01? The whole financial system, airtravel, etc. shut down completely. Since then dozens of terrorist plots have been thwarted, thousands of terrorists have been killed or arrested and not a single act of terror has been committed on our shores. I fail to see how America becoming more vigilant in protecting the countries national security is a loss.
Its precisely because of needledick, pie in the sky politicians like you that Islamic terrorism was allowed to fester unchecked for years and years until we had 911. Being re-active instead of pro-active doesnt work dumbass. Ignoring the problem and "hoping" it will disappear by itself isn't an effective strategy for dealing with terrorism.
I supposed that Doctors should tell cancer patients not to seek treatment because if they just pretend there is no Cancer, they will become healthy again right?
::)
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Harry Reid: Obama Earned It
A statement from the Senate Majority Leader:
“By ushering in a period of optimism in American politics, President Obama has become a great source of pride and inspiration for many Americans. I congratulate the President on this tremendous honor that he has earned with his dedication to a new type of politics based on hope instead of fear. I am confident that the President will work to continue to live up the ideals of this award throughout his term in office.”
::) ::) ::) i'm so glad he's getting ousted come November 2010.
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sorry hoss again this isnt the G&O the whole melt down bs doesnt work here
I like how you didnt address my point about the thwarting of the terrorist plots and how that info was obtained, thats ok i wouldnt either if i were you as it makes you look like quite the dolt ;)
so other then those laws we know you are for b/c you cite their results as good things what raping of our citizens do we do?
and as for the russian comment if i lived in europe i would be glas you have america with russia there b/c your little ass aint gonna do shit but ask us for help bro
I did address your points..?
And you've avoided several of my points as well. But I'm assuming it's OK for you if someone were to invade your community with armed forces? Cool.
So you're obviously in favor of a big brother government. My question to you is how far would you be willing to compromise your freedom in order to catch terrorists? Where is your limit if any?
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Or ended the Iraqi war.
And he's considering sending in even more troops in Afghanistan.
Does that sound like a man that should receive a Peace Prize?
The answer is 'not just no, but HELL no!'
Regarding Afghanistan, he just announced an end to the war against the Taliban, but in the same breath has now declared war on al-Qaeda. Great. ::)
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I did address your points..?
And you've avoided several of my points as well. But I'm assuming it's OK for you if someone were to invade your community with armed forces? Cool.
So you're obviously in favor of a big brother government. My question to you is how far would you be willing to compromise your freedom in order to catch terrorists? Where is your limit if any?
bring it on little boy bring your military over here and see what happens...
how do you think the fbi etc obtained the info to thwart those terrorist plots?
the same could be said for you, how many innocent ppl are you willing to let die to not inconvience you?
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Hedge I can go back and forth with in a civilized discussion about Afghanistan. You on the other hand have demonstrated a total seperation from intelligence and reality with the above posting.
By your moronic standards, the terrorists won on 911 and there is no way to ever defeat them because there is tighter airport security and more taxation??? Do you remember the state of the country on 9/12/01? The whole financial system, airtravel, etc. shut down completely. Since then dozens of terrorist plots have been thwarted, thousands of terrorists have been killed or arrested and not a single act of terror has been committed on our shores. I fail to see how America becoming more vigilant in protecting the countries national security is a loss.
Its precisely because of needledick, pie in the sky politicians like you that Islamic terrorism was allowed to fester unchecked for years and years until we had 911. Being re-active instead of pro-active doesnt work dumbass. Ignoring the problem and "hoping" it will disappear by itself isn't an effective strategy for dealing with terrorism.
I supposed that Doctors should tell cancer patients not to seek treatment because if they just pretend there is no Cancer, they will become healthy again right?
::)
Compare the death toll and costs between the 9/11 attacks and the two wars you've got in the Middle East. What's the bigger tragedy in your mind?
I'll ask you the same question, how far would you be willing to compromise in order to kill terrorists?
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bring it on little boy bring your military over here and see what happens...
how do you think the fbi etc obtained the info to thwart those terrorist plots?
the same could be said for you, how many innocent ppl are you willing to let die to not inconvience you?
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mal, why are you more interested in condeming the responce of the far right rather than question why this president, who has done very little internationally in his 9 months of office, was granted the highest peace award in the world? Your smarter than being a party liner bro.
Its almost as if certain powerful people continue to boost Obama...almost like a Manchurian candidate to the world.
Perhaps world organizations like when our presidents think more about the well being of the world than the well being of our own country. I think this international body gave it to him because of his tone, things he might do, and because he has shown little interest in expanding the economic power and dominance of the U.S in the world.
Please comment on this post and redirect back to why Obama has been chosen.
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bring it on little boy bring your military over here and see what happens...
how do you think the fbi etc obtained the info to thwart those terrorist plots?
the same could be said for you, how many innocent ppl are you willing to let die to not inconvience you?
And you avoid the question yet again. Let me answer for you; you'd be PISSED and do anything in your power to hurt/kill/defeat whoever is invading you. Not so hard to admit, is it?
how do you think the fbi etc obtained the info to thwart those terrorist plots?
Fighting terrorism does not require raping your own citizens. There were tons of warning signs before 9/11 but the critical factor was that it didn't get acted upon, it was not a matter of whether the government had invasive gestapo laws at its disposal or not. Terrorists actually got arrested pre 9/11, believe it or not. Terrorists actually successfully committed their crimes post 9/11 even with a big brother government that's supposed to keep us safe, believe it or not.
A few thousand people died in the 9/11 attacks. I think more american soldiers alone have died in the war against terror and that's not even mentioning all the civilian casualties which is a staggering amount. How many more people should die just so you can say "take that, you foul terrorists you!". If you wanna compare total death tolls the argument is not in your favor, lets just put it that way.
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I'll ask you the same question, how far would you be willing to compromise in order to kill terrorists?
As long as our rights and liberties are not infringed, they can go as far as reasonable necessary. But, as Tony points out, "inconveniencing" you at the airport is hardly a violation of rights or liberties.
You have to apply a common sense standard.
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And you avoid the question yet again. Let me answer for you; you'd be PISSED and do anything in your power to hurt/kill/defeat whoever is invading you. Not so hard to admit, is it?
LOL i figured that was implied
Now that ive answered yours you answer mine
how do you think the fbi etc obtained the info to thwart those terrorist plots?
the same could be said for you, how many innocent ppl are you willing to let die to not inconvience you?
if youre against those tactics but for the results that doesnt really add up
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As long as our rights and liberties are not infringed, they can go as far as reasonable necessary. But, as Tony points out, "inconveniencing" you at the airport is hardly a violation of rights or liberties.
You have to apply a common sense standard.
exactly ill gladly go to the airport an hour or two early to know that there are precautions being taken to keep myself and EVERYONE else safe
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As long as our rights and liberties are not infringed, they can go as far as reasonable necessary. But, as Tony points out, "inconveniencing" you at the airport is hardly a violation of rights or liberties.
You have to apply a common sense standard.
They've been infringed a long time ago and it's only getting worse. I provided you guys with several examples and there's tons more out there and all of which can be attributed to the post 9/11 era.
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As long as our rights and liberties are not infringed, they can go as far as reasonable necessary. But, as Tony points out, "inconveniencing" you at the airport is hardly a violation of rights or liberties.
You have to apply a common sense standard.
Im sure LoveMonkey would have thought nothing of Richard Reid sitting next to him in the plane playing with wires coming out of his shoes.
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exactly ill gladly go to the airport an hour or two early to know that there are precautions being taken to keep myself and EVERYONE else safe
Imo, the worst part about flying commercial is (other) people coughing and farting on the plane. 9/11 didn't do anything to change that.
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LOL i figured that was implied
Now that ive answered yours you answer mine
if youre against those tactics but for the results that doesnt really add up
Ok good then we can agree that american imperialism is not justified and your troops and politics stir up way more shit than you're entitled to. Great.
Are you special? I never said we should abolish all kinds of security checks or precautions. Some laws are needed and justified, others are not. It's a matter of judgment and loss/reward ratio between reduced threat or infringed liberty. My argument has been that things have gotten out of control after 9/11.
Now how do you justify this:
A few thousand people died in the 9/11 attacks. I think more american soldiers alone have died in the war against terror and that's not even mentioning all the civilian casualties which is a staggering amount. How many more people should die just so you can say "take that, you foul terrorists you!". If you wanna compare total death tolls the argument is not in your favor, lets just put it that way.
Not to mention that those two wars you have are destabilizing an enormous region. Both Afghanistan and Iraq are turning out to be gigantic failures. Sure terrorists have been killed but at an humongous cost. And the problem is still not solved.
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Ok good then we can agree that american imperialism is not justified and your troops and politics stir up way more shit than you're entitled to. Great.
Are you special? I never said we should abolish all kinds of security checks or precautions. Some laws are needed and justified, others are not. It's a matter of judgment and loss/reward ratio between reduced threat or infringed liberty. My argument has been that things have gotten out of control after 9/11.
Now how do you justify this:
Not to mention that those two wars you have are destabilizing an enormous region. Both Afghanistan and Iraq are turning out to be gigantic failures. Sure terrorists have been killed but at an humongous cost. And the problem is still not solved.
How is Iraq a gigantic failure?
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Im sure LoveMonkey would have thought nothing of Richard Reid sitting next to him in the plane playing with wires coming out of his shoes.
And whaddya know, all of that happened in the post 9/11 era. I've gone through several airport security checks in america the last couple months and my clothes were never checked, only had to pass through a metal detector. If I knew what I was doing I could have easily hidden something inappropriate in there. Not to mention my carry on.
Yes, terrorists exist. The only thing I'm trying to get across is that there's limits for how far you go in the pursuit of them.
I could ask you the same thing if you don't mind since I'm interested to know your thought process behind all this..
How far would you be willing to compromise in the war against terror?
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Gotta weigh in on this one...It's a fucking joke quite frankly, I dont mind Obama, and certainly the entire world seems captivated by him...but what has he done?? I cant think of any way that he has helped peace or moved a peace initiative in any part of the world forward to completion. The nobel prize is completely devalued in my opinion, mind you I guess the moment they gave it to Yasser Arafat and Shimon Peres in 1993 sort of proved the whole thing was bollocks.
This has corruption and backslapping politics written all over it, a sham if ever there was one.
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How is Iraq a gigantic failure?
By the simple fact that it was better off with a mean dictator rather than a "liberating" force. There is a reason why Baghdad was not invaded in the first Gulf War.
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And whaddya know, all of that happened in the post 9/11 era. I've gone through several airport security checks in america the last couple months and my clothes were never checked, only had to pass through a metal detector. If I knew what I was doing I could have easily hidden something inappropriate in there. Not to mention my carry on.
Yes, terrorists exist. The only thing I'm trying to get across is that there's limits for how far you go in the pursuit of them.
I could ask you the same thing if you don't mind since I'm interested to know your thought process behind all this..
How far would you be willing to compromise in the war against terror?
Considering the fact that an airplaine can be used as an improvised missle in the wrong hands, I have no problems at all with strict screening at the airport.
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Dude...we'll do what we have to..what country are u from. Let us worry about our own security measures. Baghdad wasn't invaded despite 3 Armored Divisions withinh 1-200 miles of her because Bush did not feel he had a mandate to do so. We also knew the coalition, some of which was made up of Arab states, would fall apart, thus damaging or interupting operations and logistics support to US and Western Forces. We did exactly what we set out to do in 1991 and we did the same in 2003. They had hoped that a popular uprising among Shia tribes would dump Saddam..it didn't happen. The aim of that war was never to depose him. Things change.
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Imo, the worst part about flying commercial is (other) people coughing and farting on the plane. 9/11 didn't do anything to change that.
LOL the coughing is pretty bad i havent had any problems with ppl farting though...I might not be able to take that
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Ok good then we can agree that american imperialism is not justified and your troops and politics stir up way more shit than you're entitled to. Great.
Are you special? I never said we should abolish all kinds of security checks or precautions. Some laws are needed and justified, others are not. It's a matter of judgment and loss/reward ratio between reduced threat or infringed liberty. My argument has been that things have gotten out of control after 9/11.
and thats a valid arguement but you also want to condemn things and then praise the results they bring...seems a tad hypocritcal dont you think.
what infringes on liberty do you have a problem with?
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"Obama was chosen not for substantive accomplishments, but for inspiring "hope" " ::)
The level of political kiss ass just reached a new high.
Talk nice, no need for truth or backup... :)
The Nobel prize is an outdated embarrassment.
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Dude...we'll do what we have to..what country are u from. Let us worry about our own security measures. Baghdad wasn't invaded despite 3 Armored Divisions withinh 1-200 miles of her because Bush did not feel he had a mandate to do so. We also knew the coalition, some of which was made up of Arab states, would fall apart, thus damaging or interupting operations and logistics support to US and Western Forces. We did exactly what we set out to do in 1991 and we did the same in 2003. They had hoped that a popular uprising among Shia tribes would dump Saddam..it didn't happen. The aim of that war was never to depose him. Things change.
Has anyone really figured out the true purpose of the 2003 invasion of Iraq? There's gotta be more to it. They knew what was gonna happen when Saddam was removed.
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and thats a valid arguement but you also want to condemn things and then praise the results they bring...seems a tad hypocritcal dont you think.
what infringes on liberty do you have a problem with?
That's assuming that the new laws is the sole contributing factor to the arrest of those terrorists. I'm not sure that's the case, are you?
Few of the problems I have has been mentioned already.
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They thought there would be no insurgency...and I don't need the video to show Cheney that they were worried about an insurgency in 1991. They figured after 10 plus years of sanctions that people were sick of him and they were. We dismantled the Iraqi police and Army and that gave the bathists a toe hold insurgency and things got worse from there. AQ flocked in and since then we've kicked the shit out of them...and things are quiet. Bush and everybody else still thought he had WMDs.
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How far would you be willing to compromise in the war against terror?
I wish you libs would take the same stance on the 2nd Amendment. Allow me and other law abiding citizens to carry and I assure you we will have less issues to deal with.
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I wish you libs would take the same stance on the 2nd Amendment. Allow me and other law abiding citizens to carry and I assure you we will have less issues to deal with.
Not quite sure that was an answer to the question... ah well.
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Yes, so far it has been. We haven't had an attack on our soil in 8 years. But since Obama has taken office it's getting down right scary.
I think people are a lot less scared under Obama than they were under Bush.
During the Bush era, we had Cheney and Rummy on TV every day telling us "code orange, we're all gonna die" to get their policies across. Obama is keeping the same policy in place, without using fearmongering to justify it. He's kept Bush policy in place, and we haven't been attacked on our soil.
Troops deaths are up - of course, and very sadly. We added tens of thousands of troops to afghanistan and sent them in to finally root out the bad guys. We saw a spike in casualties in Iraq during that surge too.
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We have'nt added all that many troops there 240 and we've been going after the taliban and AQA since 2001. People are twice as scared now..are u kidding me....the damm economy, job loss...the dollar. What friggen planet are u from.
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That's assuming that the new laws is the sole contributing factor to the arrest of those terrorists. I'm not sure that's the case, are you?
Few of the problems I have has been mentioned already.
Aside from the Patriot Act, and I think most people left or right, have some issues with some part of the act, I haven't seen an onslaught of laws reducing our freedoms and liberties as a result of 9/11. I'm open to listening if you can list them.
If you can't take a picture of a public place in GB, that's not our fault. I know the typical lib mantra is it's always somebody elses fault, but they're your laws, your country, and YOUR responsibility to work to change them. Our response to 9/11 is neither here nor there.
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Aside from the Patriot Act, and I think most people left or right, have some issues with some part of the act, I haven't seen an onslaught of laws reducing our freedoms and liberties as a result of 9/11. I'm open to listening if you can list them.
If you can't take a picture of a public place in GB, that's not our fault. I know the typical lib mantra is it's always somebody elses fault, but they're your laws, your country, and YOUR responsibility to work to change them. Our response to 9/11 is neither here nor there.
Most of the stuff I've been concerned about has been happening in europe. The hissy fit I've been throwing here the last couple of hours has been about the entire western worlds mentality concerning terrorism in general and how they're so willing to bend over backwards for the government whenever the word terrorism is mentioned. So in a lot of ways this is a problem that crosses borders.
Do I know all the post 9/11 laws in the U.S that restricts your freedom? Nope. Have I seen enough to know that the trend is worrisome? Yep.
"I know the typical lib mantra is it's always somebody elses fault"
Is anyone ever in control of everything? No, of course it's some other peoples fault. What would you expect?
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That's assuming that the new laws is the sole contributing factor to the arrest of those terrorists. I'm not sure that's the case, are you?
Few of the problems I have has been mentioned already.
whether it was the sole contributing factor or not isnt the issue if it was a factor at all then you are being hypocritical numb nut.
you cant condemn it in one sentence and then praise the results in another. ::)
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man this thread is just full of meltdowns from right wing republicans, that are not even part of the equation anymore LOL.
jt
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wtf!!!
What has he actually done/accomplished? Seriously
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whether it was the sole contributing factor or not isnt the issue if it was a factor at all then you are being hypocritical numb nut.
you cant condemn it in one sentence and then praise the results in another. ::)
Jesus you are slow.
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Jesus you are slow.
hahhahahh more deflection who knew? ;)
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hahhahahh more deflection who knew? ;)
Didn't I try to tell you that moderation is key here, the police/fbi can still do their work even without some of the added gestapo laws.
Yes, you're slow.
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Didn't I try to tell you that moderation is key here, the police/fbi can still do their work even without some of the added gestapo laws.
Yes, you're slow.
LOL and who is to decide the moderation? you? LOL
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LOL and who is to decide the moderation? you? LOL
No, a people elected government you fuckin retard. It's also a zeitgeist thing, if the people rebel against this it will be stopped. That's not the case yet though.
You're still slow.
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No, a people elected government you fuckin retard. It's also a zeitgeist thing, if the people rebel against this it will be stopped. That's not the case yet though.
You're still slow.
hahahhah id be willing to bet im a good amount faster than you my friend...
and what country are you from?
you come on here bitching about the infringement on liberties and then praise the results and im slow? ;)
LOL really?
you bitch and complain about the security in the air ports as examples of being paranoid etc...really? we did have 2 planes flown into buildings and another one flown into the pentagon.
youre right maybe we should stop the whole airport security checks ::)
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hahahhah id be willing to bet im a good amount faster than you my friend...
and what country are you from?
you come on here bitching about the infringement on liberties and then praise the results and im slow? ;)
LOL really?
you bitch and complain about the security in the air ports as examples of being paranoid etc...really? we did have 2 planes flown into buildings and another one flown into the pentagon.
youre right maybe we should stop the whole airport security checks ::)
Haha, why do I even bother with this.
Terrorists were arrested before 9/11, is that too hard of a concept for you to grasp? Show me where I praised the results of the new gestapo laws? As I said, moderation is key. The same with airport security. People have been arrested(and deported) in airports for just mentioning the word "bomb" or "terror" while waiting for security checks, innocent tourists get interrogated and searched every minute that goes by and yet they have to find a real terrorist. That's not moderate, that's extreme. See where I'm getting at, fuckwit?
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Call me 33333odomus
What a joke. Serious, Obama was nominated for this after only something like 2 weeks or months in office.
Other than:
1. Going on a world apology tour
2. Reaching out to Iran & Hugo Chavez
3. Giving Qaddafi's daughters 400K
4. Telling the taliban that they can be part of the future Afghan govt.
5. Giving a ridiculous speech at the U.N.
I have no idea what he has done to warrant this award. But heck, Jimmy Carter, Arafat, and Al Gore got this too so he is in good company.