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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Per Se on October 12, 2009, 09:34:39 AM
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I change up my sholder routine, maybe once a month. This is my current routine. I'm open to ideas...please post yours.
Clean and press x 3
Dumbell press x 4
EZ bar upright rows x 4
Side lateral raises x 4
Rear raises x 4
Reverse pec dec machine x 4
Barbell shrugs
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Seated Smith machine O.H presses (sometimes behind the neck but arms never below parallel)
Standing Smith machine presses
Smith Machine shrugs
Life fitness side delt machine
DB lateral raises (front and rear)
Leaning one arm side/lateral raises
Reverse Pec Dec
High rope pulley rows to face (rear delts)
Lying side raises (rear delts)
Front plate raises
Db or BB shrugs
No upright rows. Ever.
I think I just added traps, didn't I?
I've been hitting delts and traps twice a week (directly) about 4 days apart. Seems to be working for now.
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I change up my sholder routine, maybe once a month. This is my current routine. I'm open to ideas...please post yours.
Clean and press x 3
Dumbell press x 4
EZ bar upright rows x 4
Side lateral raises x 4
Rear raises x 4
Reverse pec dec machine x 4
Barbell shrugs
Can you lift up your arms after that? :o
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Seated Smith machine O.H presses (sometimes behind the neck but arms never below parallel)
Standing Smith machine presses
Smith Machine shrugs
Life fitness side delt machine
DB lateral raises (front and rear)
Leaning one arm side/lateral raises
Reverse Pec Dec
High rope pulley rows to face (rear delts)
Lying side raises (rear delts)
Front plate raises
Db or BB shrugs
No upright rows. Ever.
I think I just added traps, didn't I?
I've been hitting delts and traps twice a week (directly) about 4 days apart. Seems to be working for now.
Why no upright rows?
In hitting shoulders so regularly...is one a heavy day, and one a moderate day - OR both heavy?
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Can you lift up your arms after that? :o
Im kinda narrow a la Phil Heath, I have good traps, but my delts are lacking, so need to bring then up.
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Why no upright rows?
In hitting shoulders so regularly...is one a heavy day, and one a moderate day - OR both heavy?
Something about them feels funky. I used to do em' on an EZ bar pulley. The exercise puts a serious pinch on the rotator cuff tendons at the top of the lift.
I never do exercises that don't feel right anymore. Too old.
Yeah, one is a heavy day, the other is an FST-7 type day. Moderately heavy and high reps with a lotta stretching at the end. I can't lift my arms to dry my face after...
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Few quick questions man are you juicing? and if not then don't you think this is like overtraining? Man I am not trying to hate or flame on you I am just wondering.
Seated Smith machine O.H presses (sometimes behind the neck but arms never below parallel)
Standing Smith machine presses
Smith Machine shrugs
Life fitness side delt machine
DB lateral raises (front and rear)
Leaning one arm side/lateral raises
Reverse Pec Dec
High rope pulley rows to face (rear delts)
Lying side raises (rear delts)
Front plate raises
Db or BB shrugs
No upright rows. Ever.
I think I just added traps, didn't I?
I've been hitting delts and traps twice a week (directly) about 4 days apart. Seems to be working for now.
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Why do you do clean and press then db press, and why rear raises then reverse pec deck? IMHO your routine is overkill if your natural. What kind of workout split are you on? I think I would go something more like this if you have shoulders on their own day which is what I am guessing:
Clean and Press
Rear Flyes (pec dec or db)
Upright Rows
Shrugs
Then depending on what your split is like the next shoulder day or whatever instead of rear flyes do lateral raises. Good luck either way.
I change up my sholder routine, maybe once a month. This is my current routine. I'm open to ideas...please post yours.
Clean and press x 3
Dumbell press x 4
EZ bar upright rows x 4
Side lateral raises x 4
Rear raises x 4
Reverse pec dec machine x 4
Barbell shrugs
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Bradford Press, never let the bar much lower than the top of the neck region.Do not lock out. Caution, not an exercise for most guy's. Go easy at first to see how the delts react. Or do a set of front presses SS'ed with BPN's. And/or front press SS'ed with upright rows (grip around 8" apart) & only raising the bar to about upper chest. Consider most any form of DB pressing (prefer one arm at a time)
Push or jerk presses are excellent for shoulder mass. Cleans and Hi- pulls get the lateral and rear delt heads well. As do uprights. Reverse pec deck, an exceptional rear delt exercise. Why would anyone add shrugs to a delt scheme, I wonder. If doing cleans, uprights, etc the traps get hit well enough. Why anyone would include shrugs in a delt workout plan, is beyond my understanding.
Can tell if your shoulder training is working when your shirts become too tight .A mirror may only give the illusion of growth. Can also measure the shoulder width to check progress. Do not need a lot of different movements to build huge delts. Just be selective and choose 2 compound exercises. And train with serious intent always. Good Luck.
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Why do you do clean and press then db press, and why rear raises then reverse pec deck? IMHO your routine is overkill if your natural. What kind of workout split are you on? I think I would go something more like this if you have shoulders on their own day which is what I am guessing:
Clean and Press
Rear Flyes (pec dec or db)
Upright Rows
Shrugs
Then depending on what your split is like the next shoulder day or whatever instead of rear flyes do lateral raises. Good luck either way.
Clean n press is something I've started doing again recently as I just really like the exercise. I go heavy on this exercise, and only do 3 sets.
I train one day on, one day off.
I do rear raises AND reverse pec dec becaue I just dnt feel I've hit my rear delts hard enough otherwise. I just try to listen to my body.
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Ha ha..
No, I don't usually do them all at once. Ya gotta understand, I've been working out for a LOOOOONG ass time. I get bored, so I may only do a few sets of one exercise or I may do one and just keep switching stations.
I work out at a fast pace. Always have. My shoulders barely get sore. I used to swim for the U.S.A swim team for years. I started out swimming butterfly when I was a little kid because nobody else wanted to. My shoulders became very accustomed to endurance training as I would swim fly for up to two hours almost non-stop.
Since I don't really believe in lifting super-heavy for the delts, I have to kick up the volume. I can fly through a workout like that without really wasting any time. I hate cardio, so keeping moving really helps. I have a fast metabolism and I don't like bullshitting at the gym... once I start, I can't stop.
Technically, I am 'juicing' since I am on legit HRT and have lab work done once every three months.
I do know what overtraining is, and when I feel like I am overdoing it, I just take a few days off.
I know the anatomy of the shoulder joint (rotator cuff) thoroughly, so I don't feel I am being counter-productive at all. To be honest, you could pull a few of the exercises out and it would probably be more accurate.
I remember years ago reading how Vic Richards would blast certain muscles-- and if he felt like it, he would blast them again the next day. My workouts have always been unorthodox. I have kept training journals since the day I started working out. The only consistency I can see is in keeping the journals themselves...
How's that for ambiguous?
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I was just curious dyslexic wasnt trying to hate. Youv'e got what I am still trying to learn and figure out and that is what works best with me. Another random question, why do you NEVER do upright rows? I know there are alot of mixed felings about them i was just wondering what your reasoning was.
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The Clean & Press could easily be a stand alone exercise for upper body mass. The legs/quads get involved heavily if the squat clean & press are used. Which ups this combo to a whole body movement. Adjust well with general BB'ing reps (8-12) for solid results. The endurance also can increase greatly.
Had done GVT (10X10) on the C&P in the past. It can be a get in shape for sports exercise, as well as a mass & power builder. I prefer rack power cleans & presses, just my view. The traps and shoulders get an exceptional workout. Square root schemes also work well, as 5X5's and 8X8's. Want just to focus of power, than sets of 2's & 3's for 6 sets. Good Luck.
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I was just curious dyslexic wasnt trying to hate. Youv'e got what I am still trying to learn and figure out and that is what works best with me. Another random question, why do you NEVER do upright rows? I know there are alot of mixed felings about them i was just wondering what your reasoning was.
Dude, I NEVER pick up on any "hate" from your posts!
The comment about upright rows was specifically for me. I have a narrower space than most people between the bones of my shoulder/arm joint. When the tendon (supraspinatus) swells, it's even more of a bitch. The only exercise that really bothers me is the upright row. It's an un-natural movement for me. I never lift anything that way in my everyday life, so I'm not worried about it. I am fine with side/lateral raises, but again, I never do any sideways lifting in my everyday life. I usually face something before I lift it.
I like to work the side cap of the lateral head of the delt, but upright rows just don't work for me. That's about as simple as it gets. The red arrows show where I feel the pinching if I do the upright rowing.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x263/timeamajorova/rotatorcuffirritation.jpg)
Here's a pretty descriptive article that explains my situation (if you have the time)
http://beauproductions.com/golfswingsws/healthpages/rotarycuff.html
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I haven't got a chance to read that article yet but I will. I agree with you though most things I pick up I am facing, however my job does call for soemtimes pulling up ropes with bolt/tool bags and power tools and the worst is pulling up a full gatorade water keg (try pulling one of them up about 120 ft....theres alot of swearing involved with that also ;) :)). I do upright rows and love them but I do them and pretty much all shoulder moves a little lighter with higher reps. I played a shitload of football and hockey growing up and I hurt my shoulder and never let it heal properly (being young and dumb) so I try to be careful with them, which is the reason I won't do any lifts behind my head and use DB for all pressing moves. I've found doing them with a wide grip and only to just under the nipples is the form for me but again most the time I do them with DB one arm at a time.
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The shoulder joint is the most mobile joint in the body. It is also the weakest joint. I just have to be careful. If it works for you, I'm sure your'e O.K... for now.
Get back to me in 10 -15 years ;D
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Wellhopefully if I take care of myself I will still be able to do upright rows in 10-15 years. We will see...thanks for sharing all that shoulder info though it was interesting. Do you work out shoulders on their own day or whats your split like?
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Wellhopefully if I take care of myself I will still be able to do upright rows in 10-15 years. We will see...thanks for sharing all that shoulder info though it was interesting. Do you work out shoulders on their own day or whats your split like?
I do give them a day of their own, but then they are also ancilliaries in everything else. I feel them in curls, chins, dips.. you name it. Well, I don't feel them in leg presses. :P
I hit the traps a couple of times a week. I do heavy rack pulls once a week and I know those take a toll on the delts too. I guess if I had to be brutally truthful, my shoulders are working all of the time. Everyday is probably a "day of their own"...
They have come up quite a bit this year. I kind of started a specialization routine with them in March.
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Why would anyone add shrugs to a delt scheme, I wonder. If doing cleans, uprights, etc the traps get hit well enough. Why anyone would include shrugs in a delt workout plan, is beyond my understanding.
May as well add lateral raises to that list.
Most guys cheating those dumbbells up - or just using bad form in general - are activating lots of trap fibers.
Not to mention the fact that the trapezius often grows rather easily on most folks, anyway - and that's just with indirect stimulation.
If training solely for aesthetics, it would seem that overpowering traps are undesirable as they increase the base of the neck, which in turn diminishes optical/perceived shoulder width.
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clean and press
one arm db side laterals
reverse pec deck
machine press/upright row superset
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You ever tried one armed cable lateral raises?
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You ever tried one armed cable lateral raises?
yes, one thing i really like is the cable keeps constant tension on the muscle. With a regular lateral you really don't get much out of the first part of the rep unlike a cable.
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Couple friends of mine used to like doing these standing away from the pulley enough that they could lower the working arm to a starting position behind their body with constant tension on the delt.
Talk about increasing ROM!
As you mentioned, using dumbbells, the tension has a vanishing point way before that.
Only reason I brought it up is because I’d forgotten about this variation, and your post above reminded me of it.
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i usually do something like this
some type of press
maybe another press
barbell rows
barbell front raises
dumbell side laterals
maybe another press
on shoulders i generally like to do light weight pump sets in between my heavier sets
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Front Delt dumbell raises- Stretch, 1-2 warm up sets, 4-5 sets
Barbell press/dumbell press- 4-5 sets
Side laterals- 4-5 sets
Rear Delts-4-5 sets
I usually stick with 4 sets but depending on how i feel, if i feel like i can throw in one more set i will. You ever catch yourself on your last exercise/bodypart slacking off and being lazy and end walking out to leave and stop yourself and say" wait.....wtf am i doing?? i gotta a couple more sets left in me, then you end up doing a few more sets than you planned cuz your pissed at yourself for wanting to leave early. ;D ;D
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dumbell press
barbell press in front or behind, it varies
upright rows or db side laterals
bent over rear laterals or cable rear laterals standing or on bench
db or cable front raises
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Do you guys keep your shoulders more in front or back of the body when pressing?
I have narrow shoulders and never could really feel the shoulders working... mostly traps when doing presses.
Since I keep my shoulders pushed back, upper back tense and started behind the neck presses - I can really feel them working... now I am eager on training them.
Are people with short clavicles in general more prone to overdeveloping their traps while working shoulders?
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Do you guys keep your shoulders more in front or back of the body when pressing?
I have narrow shoulders and never could really feel the shoulders working... mostly traps when doing presses.
Since I keep my shoulders pushed back, upper back tense and started behind the neck presses - I can really feel them working... now I am eager on training them.
Are people with short clavicles in general more prone to overdeveloping their traps while working shoulders?
If you are only feeling the traps when pressing I would say that your delts are either 1) exhausted, or 2) the weight is too heavy.
Short clavicles don't automatically equate to bigger and stronger traps. It may appear that way (optical illusion) but you need to really concentrate on isolating the lateral heads of the delts... possibly with higher reps and lighter weights.
You will probably always feel something in the traps because you cannot totally eliminate them from your shoulder work. When you raise your arm to the side for a lateral raise, what is your trap doing?
Answer: It is flexing like a bicep right at the top and against the neck. People who are looking for larger traps might want to consider that... ;D
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Seated dumbell presses 10-8-8-8
Standing side raises 10-8-8
Standing rear raises 10-8-8
Dumbell shrugs 2x10
Shoulders are a wierd muscle group. I feel they respond better on pressing with sets of 8 with good form rather than crazy heavy wieght. For most working up to sets of 8-10 with 80s-100s will build some nice mass. The problem with side and rear raises is that you could only add so much wieght on these exersizes. On side raises 40-50s for eight to ten is plenty. On rear raises 50-60s for 8-10 for most is good. On delts focusing on good form with moderate to heavy wieght seems to work for most and myself.
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Watch this shit...