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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on October 14, 2009, 10:19:49 AM
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Report: Russia to allow pre-emptive nukes
Oct 14 11:09 AM US/Eastern
By DAVID NOWAK
Associated Press Writer
Clinton Talks Missile Defense on Russia Radio
MOSCOW (AP) - A top Russian security official says Moscow reserves the right to conduct pre-emptive nuclear strikes to safeguard the country against aggression on both a large and a local scale, according to a newspaper interview published Wednesday.
Presidential Security Council chief Nikolai Patrushev also singled out the U.S. and NATO, saying Moscow's Cold War foes still pose potential threats to Russia despite what he called a global trend toward local conflicts.
The interview appeared in the daily Izvestia during a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, as U.S. and Russian negotiators try to hammer out a nuclear arms reduction treaty by December. It also came amid grumbling in Moscow over U.S. moves to modify plans for a missile shield near Russia's borders rather than ditch the idea outright.
Patrushev said a sweeping document on military policy including a passage on preventative nuclear force will be handed to President Dmitry Medvedev by the end of the year, according to Izvestia.
Officials are examining "a variety of possibilities for using nuclear force, depending on the situation and the intentions of the possible opponent," Patrushev was quoted as saying. "In situations critical to national security, options including a preventative nuclear strike on the aggressor are not excluded."
The proposed doctrine would allow for the use of nuclear weapons "to repel an aggression with the use of conventional weapons not only in a large-scale but also in a regional and even local war," Patrushev was quoted as saying. He said a government analysis of the threat of conflict in the world showed "a shift from large-scale conflicts to local wars and armed conflicts."
"However, earlier military dangers and threats for our country have not lost significance," he was quoted as saying. "Activity on receiving new members into NATO is not ceasing. The military activity of the bloc is being stepped up. U.S. strategic forces are conducting intensive training on using strategic nuclear weapons."
Russian military analysts said the hawkish former domestic intelligence chief's remarks were mostly muscle-flexing for show, because what he revealed about the proposed new doctrine suggests it differs little from the current one.
One independent analyst, Alexander Golts, said current policy already allows for a nuclear strike to repel an aggression of any sort. Another, Pavel Felgenhauer, said that effectively allows for a pre-emptive strike because the type of aggression that would warrant such a strike is not clearly defined.
Russia' NATO envoy, Dmitry Rogozin, argued the proposed doctrine does not contradict arms reduction efforts. "We are moving toward a reduction in nuclear arsenals," he told Ekho Moskvy radio.
Still, Patrushev's focus on local conflicts could rattle Georgia, the small neighbor that Russia routed in a five-day conventional war with Russia last year.
Analysts also said his description of the proposed policy shows Russia's growing reliance on nuclear arms as its conventional arsenal decays and unpopular military reforms stall. Observers say the war with Georgia exposed frailties in Russia's military, adding urgency to planned reforms.
In a symptomatic setback, a scheduled test launch of the new Bulava intercontinental ballistic missile—which has failed in seven of its 11 test launches so far—was postponed, the state-run RIA Novosti news agency reported. The Bulava has been billed as the future of Russia's nuclear arsenal.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Why did Obama get the Nobel PEACE prize again?
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Russia is following the Bush Doctrine.
"In what respect, Charlie?"
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Russia is following the Bush Doctrine.
"In what respect, Charlie?"
Amazing - your compulsion to blame Palin and Bush is almost at nuclear levels.
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Russia is following the Bush Doctrine.
"In what respect, Charlie?"
Tentative Inspection Program Would Allow Russia to Visit U.S. Nuclear Sites
The plan, which Fox News has learned was agreed to in principle during negotiations, would constitute the most intrusive weapons inspection program the U.S. has ever accepted.
FOXNews.com
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
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Russia and the United States have tentatively agreed to a weapons inspection program that would allow Russians to visit nuclear sites in America to count missiles and warheads.
The plan, which Fox News has learned was agreed to in principle during negotiations, would constitute the most intrusive weapons inspection program the U.S. has ever accepted.
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who met with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, said publicly Tuesday that the two nations have made "considerable" progress toward reaching agreement on a new strategic arms treaty.
The 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, expires in December and negotiators have been racing to reach agreement on a successor.
Clinton said the U.S. would be as transparent as possible.
"We want to ensure that every question that the Russian military or Russian government asks is answered," she said, calling missile defense "another area for deep cooperation between our countries."
On another critical issue, Lavrov declared that it would be counterproductive to threaten Iran with more sanctions over its nuclear program -- as he resisted efforts by Clinton to win agreement for tougher measures should Iran fail to prove its program is peaceful.
Clinton visited Moscow on her first trip since becoming America's top diplomat, in an effort to gauge Moscow's willingness to join the U.S. in imposing sanctions.
Clinton said the U.S. agreed it was important to pursue diplomacy with Iran.
"At the same time that we are very vigorously pursuing this track, we are aware that we might not be as successful as we need to be, so we have always looked at the potential of sanctions in the event we are not successful and cannot assure ourselves and others that Iran has decided not to pursue nuclear weapons," she said at a joint news conference.
Iran insists it has the right to a full domestic nuclear enrichment program and maintains it is only for peaceful purposes, such as energy production.
President Obama -- who visited Russia in July -- has vowed to "reset" U.S.-Russia relations. On Tuesday, Clinton apologized for missing that meeting because of a broken elbow.
"But now both my elbow and our relationships are reset and we're moving forward, which I greatly welcome," she said.
She was to meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev later Tuesday.
Fox News' Dana Lewis and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Russia is following the Bush Doctrine.
No, They are using the "You have a wimpy president, like Carter..so we will do or say whatever the F..k we want" Doctrine. Reagan wouldn't have put up with this shit.
"In what respect, Charlie?"
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A country with nukes might use them if they feel threatened?
BFD. What else is old?
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Tentative Inspection Program Would Allow Russia to Visit U.S. Nuclear Sites
The plan, which Fox News has learned was agreed to in principle during negotiations, would constitute the most intrusive weapons inspection program the U.S. has ever accepted.
FOXNews.com
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
________________________ ________________________ _______________
Russia and the United States have tentatively agreed to a weapons inspection program that would allow Russians to visit nuclear sites in America to count missiles and warheads.
The plan, which Fox News has learned was agreed to in principle during negotiations, would constitute the most intrusive weapons inspection program the U.S. has ever accepted.
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who met with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, said publicly Tuesday that the two nations have made "considerable" progress toward reaching agreement on a new strategic arms treaty.
The 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, expires in December and negotiators have been racing to reach agreement on a successor.
Clinton said the U.S. would be as transparent as possible.
"We want to ensure that every question that the Russian military or Russian government asks is answered," she said, calling missile defense "another area for deep cooperation between our countries."
On another critical issue, Lavrov declared that it would be counterproductive to threaten Iran with more sanctions over its nuclear program -- as he resisted efforts by Clinton to win agreement for tougher measures should Iran fail to prove its program is peaceful.
Clinton visited Moscow on her first trip since becoming America's top diplomat, in an effort to gauge Moscow's willingness to join the U.S. in imposing sanctions.
Clinton said the U.S. agreed it was important to pursue diplomacy with Iran.
"At the same time that we are very vigorously pursuing this track, we are aware that we might not be as successful as we need to be, so we have always looked at the potential of sanctions in the event we are not successful and cannot assure ourselves and others that Iran has decided not to pursue nuclear weapons," she said at a joint news conference.
Iran insists it has the right to a full domestic nuclear enrichment program and maintains it is only for peaceful purposes, such as energy production.
President Obama -- who visited Russia in July -- has vowed to "reset" U.S.-Russia relations. On Tuesday, Clinton apologized for missing that meeting because of a broken elbow.
"But now both my elbow and our relationships are reset and we're moving forward, which I greatly welcome," she said.
She was to meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev later Tuesday.
Fox News' Dana Lewis and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Again, so what?
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Again, so what?
I personally dont believe we should be giving guided tours of our nuclear weapons facilities to the russians. But thats me.
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I personally dont believe we should be giving guided tours of our nuclear weapons facilities to the russians. But thats me.
We did before and helped curb the potential threat.
OR
We could just go back to the way things were before and have a gazillion nukes aimed at us at all times. Which is fucking stupid.
I personally prefer these agreements.
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We did before and helped curb the potential threat.
OR
We could just go back to the way things were before and have a gazillion nukes aimed at us at all times. Which is fucking stupid.
I personally prefer these agreements.
I dont trust these people at all. They are helping out Iran and are desperate economically speaking.
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I dont trust these people at all. They are helping out Iran and are desperate economically speaking.
That's why treaties like this are good. It helps us keep an eye on them. And yes, it only makes political sense they align somewhat with the Iranians.......as if we are supposed to think they are too stupid to do that?
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Bush wrote the doctrine on pre-emptive strikes with Iraq.
obama followed it with all these pakistan drone attacks.
the reds just following suit.
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Yeah thats whats going on here 240. ::) The Russians already monitor our nukes..not sure how this changes anything. In Russia we have small groups of folks who basically live in compounds ajacent to the nuke factories. They are monitored 24/7. Once a new nuke comes out we get to inspect it and keep track of it. Same with a dismantled nuke. My buddy visited one such site. He was given minders as soon as he got of the plane and driven to the US compound. He couldn't leave or even tour the factory, thats not how it works in Russia. This was the same numbered city that also is the main AK factory. He couldn't even go there. They have special AK vodka that at times the Russians will allow the compounds guys buy. The Russians pretty much do what they want here.
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Yeah thats whats going on here 240. ::) The Russians already monitor our nukes..not sure how this changes anything. In Russia we have small groups of folks who basically live in compounds ajacent to the nuke factories. They are monitored 24/7. Once a new nuke comes out we get to inspect it and keep track of it. Same with a dismantled nuke. My buddy visited one such site. He was given minders as soon as he got of the plane and driven to the US compound. He couldn't leave or even tour the factory, thats not how it works in Russia. This was the same numbered city that also is the main AK factory. He couldn't even go there. They have special AK vodka that at times the Russians will allow the compounds guys buy. The Russians pretty much do what they want here.
That's because Obama really wants us all to embrace communism. ;D
I'm willing to bet it's not one sided or slanted as you have just suggested.
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What's one sides...my buddy worked in the US embassy in Russia as part of the arms control team...thats how it works. There is no one sided about it.
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What's one sides...my buddy worked in the US embassy in Russia as part of the arms control team...thats how it works. There is no one sided about it.
Are you suggesting that our inspectors are not granted the same access in Russia as their inspectors have here?
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I'm telling u what happens...they sit in a compound which has CCTV camera's. The nuke comes out and basically rolls by the US compound for verification. We take down the serial number and enter it into the database. We do the same with a nuke they're tearing apart..they roll it by, we verify that its going to be dismantled. They take it apart, we verify that its in pieces and they dispose of it. They only have a few of these sites in one of the old numbered cities. Maybe 2 or 3. This one is also the location of the Kalashinikov plant. My buddy wanted to get the AK vodka..because its cool and of course his Russian friends would have none of that. His home was bugged, car was bugged.....its the game they play over there. He has tons of cool stories. The Russians are beyond paranoid. We don't treat them the same in the states. While I don't know what kind of access they have to Dugway ot our other sites..its the same except their guys aren't locked down near as bad as our guys. That site in Russia is in Siberia...it basically sucks so the Embassy sends folks out with the mail to bring in moral items etc. When the wall fell we basically went through the Soviet Union taking inventory. They lost track of sites and numbers. We would roll into a site that the Russians had forgot about and they would be stunned...nukes just sorta sitting there. We basically built alot of the infrastruture that went into dismantling this crap over there. They had no capacity to do it themselves. Ive been on exercises in Germany with the Russians. They pretty much do what they want..buy all kinds of booze and crap they can't get and take alot of pics. We don't do that there...thats why they always come to us. Its hard to get an idea of their paranoia.
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what kind of $$ does your bud make over there?
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Same as I do or the same as a Major with however many years he has in..he's a FAO or Foreign area Officer with the same rank. His specialty is Russian...but we have guys for alomost everywhere. They do language at DLI at Monterey. They get assigned and then basically get to travel their area for 2 years. He did his in the Caucus's..but saw almost all of the former Soviet Union. He then did 3 years in the Embassy as part of the Arms control team. What he can do when he gets out is work for any of the multi-nationals that do business there....its a great career. He's headed to Germany next, not near as glamorous. He does get an extra 150 per month lanuage pay
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I'm telling u what happens...they sit in a compound which has CCTV camera's. The nuke comes out and basically rolls by the US compound for verification. We take down the serial number and enter it into the database. We do the same with a nuke they're tearing apart..they roll it by, we verify that its going to be dismantled. They take it apart, we verify that its in pieces and they dispose of it. They only have a few of these sites in one of the old numbered cities. Maybe 2 or 3. This one is also the location of the Kalashinikov plant. My buddy wanted to get the AK vodka..because its cool and of course his Russian friends would have none of that. His home was bugged, car was bugged.....its the game they play over there. He has tons of cool stories. The Russians are beyond paranoid. We don't treat them the same in the states. While I don't know what kind of access they have to Dugway ot our other sites..its the same except their guys aren't locked down near as bad as our guys. That site in Russia is in Siberia...it basically sucks so the Embassy sends folks out with the mail to bring in moral items etc. When the wall fell we basically went through the Soviet Union taking inventory. They lost track of sites and numbers. We would roll into a site that the Russians had forgot about and they would be stunned...nukes just sorta sitting there. We basically built alot of the infrastruture that went into dismantling this crap over there. They had no capacity to do it themselves. Ive been on exercises in Germany with the Russians. They pretty much do what they want..buy all kinds of booze and crap they can't get and take alot of pics. We don't do that there...thats why they always come to us. Its hard to get an idea of their paranoia.
So essentially this is a big fat non-issue laced with anti-obama commy slant paranoia .
AND the Russians are paranoid about stuff too.
Ok got it.
So as i said earlier.
BFD. What else is old?
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I don't know whats different...i need him to read then story, which i asked him about today when I saw it, and then get back to u guys.
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Bush wrote the doctrine on pre-emptive strikes with Iraq.
obama followed it with all these pakistan drone attacks.
the reds just following suit.
Did you forget the numerous UN resolutions authorizing action signed unanimously by the UN secuirty council before we did anything?
gg selective memory.
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Un authorized us to hit targets in pakisten?
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I personally dont believe we should be giving guided tours of our nuclear weapons facilities to the russians. But thats me.
I think the "Russians" are giving guided tours to their US counterparts, and have been for awhile.
Didn't Reagan and Gorbatchev start the road towards that?
Or perhaps you would rather prefer non guided tours? ;D
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Did you forget the numerous UN resolutions authorizing action signed unanimously by the UN secuirty council before we did anything?
gg selective memory.
LOL what?
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More on this. Apparently the Russians decided some time ago that they had better things to do then count our nukes and decided to pack up and go home. They hoped we would do the same....yeah right...we stayed. So when the talks began about renewing the START treaty that covered all this, the Russians tied it in with the Missile Shield and pissed off State who were not there to talk about that at all Neither side got anywhere so the Russians decided to close down their missile plant and kicked out our inspectors. My buddy was there and we weren't happy. The big nukes aren't really the issue, its all the small stuff that they've lost track of. The article doesn't say much but it also doesn't say that the Russians are allowing us to inspect again because there is no current treaty. I guess there treaties are extremely specific. They name the inspector, duration, day and date of inspection...right to the last detail. That was in regards subs etc. These treaties are balanced, the Russians don't get over on us and Obama would not be allowed to change that if he wanted to. I still don't know what point they were making in the article because there is no real info.