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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on October 20, 2009, 09:59:22 PM
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Nationwide - 20% claim to be a republican. And 19% of americans would like to see repubs in congress. And 49% have confidence in Obama.
I didn't catch how many claim to be dems. probably not high, but certainly not that low.
GOP, please, pick a leader already! You keep on saying "we don't need a leader!" but your top 3 voices are a quitter governor, a drug-addled radio host, and now a guy who cries on his new talk show. Every other repub is a distance 12th place.
20% claim to be a republican- WashPo/ABC poll
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33% for democrats,,, Interesting, look how much independents have increased!!! 42% up from 29% last year! not shocking, but I bet they manage on getting those people back into rep/dem camps before the election lol...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_101909.html?sid=ST2009101902502
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No, the GOP needs to be dissolved and branched into Libertarian and Constitution Parties. They're paying for the sins of the previous president.
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The problem is the current two party system of USA.
USA would be much better off with proportional representation, where multiple parties would be able to get represented.
http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/globalrights/democracy/abcs.html
Then you would see all kinds of parties, from pure one issue parties, eg anti immigration, to Christian Conservatives, all the way to Communist parties, and perhaps some 2nd amendment party.
Diversity would be much better represented.
Instead of this "pick the lesser of two evils" system that is currently in practice.
Soviet Union had one party to vote for.
In USA, there are in reality twice as much democracy!!! ::)
The most ridiculous part of all this is that the main argument why the current system is kept, is that "the founding fathers" wrote it that way.
And they couldn't be wrong, could they? ::)
I mean, that was only like 200+ years ago.
The real reason is because the two parties in power like it that way.
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The problem is the current two party system of USA.
USA would be much better off with proportional representation, where multiple parties would be able to get represented.
http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/globalrights/democracy/abcs.html
Then you would see all kinds of parties, from pure one issue parties, eg anti immigration, to Christian Conservatives, all the way to Communist parties, and perhaps some 2nd amendment party.
Diversity would be much better represented.
Instead of this "pick the lesser of two evils" system that is currently in practice.
Soviet Union had one party to vote for.
In USA, there are in reality twice as much democracy!!! ::)
The most ridiculous part of all this is that the main argument why the current system is kept, is that "the founding fathers" wrote it that way.
And they couldn't be wrong, could they? ::)
I mean, that was only like 200+ years ago.
The real reason is because the two parties in power like it that way.
HEDGE -
The original GW warned against the two party system and it is not in the constitution.
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::)
240 shows his supreme intelligence yet again. Less than one month ago there was a posting here which referenced a nationwide poll that stated the majority of Americans consider themselves conservative. I also remember reading several articles that also included the poll.
So now, the majority of Americans are conservatives but only 20% claim to be republican?
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::)
240 shows his supreme intelligence yet again. Less than one month ago there was a posting here which referenced a nationwide poll that stated the majority of Americans consider themselves conservative. I also remember reading several articles that also included the poll.
So now, the majority of Americans are conservatives but only 20% claim to be republican?
I wish the GOP would go away myself. They are useless, feckless, and Dem-Lite.
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Republican leaders do not seem to have good organization. By far the most visible people identified with the republican party are the talk show hosts. I agree, they need to create a clear message and identify a few strong leaders if they want to win in 2012.
I also hate the 2 party system, it's insulting to have yourself labeled as belonging to 1 party. There are too many differences among individual members.
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HEDGE -
The original GW warned against the two party system and it is not in the constitution.
You are wrong.
It is in the constitution.
The election system with electorates are very well described in the US constitution. Here's a paragraph:
Section 2 - The House
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
(Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.) (The previous sentence in parentheses was modified by the 14th Amendment, section 2.) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five and Georgia three.
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
14th Amendment:
2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
The system favors majority.
Ie, as a voter, your vote is "dead" as long as you don't vote for one of the two big parties.
Ralph Nader was long considered to be a spoiler for the Democrats because he ran a campaign despite having absolutely no chance of winning the presidency.
The same is said for the Socialist party.
And the Libertarian party gets a lot of heat for "stealing" GOP votes.
The Libertarian party won't be a factor unless you change the constitution.
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240 shows his supreme intelligence yet again. Less than one month ago there was a posting here which referenced a nationwide poll that stated the majority of Americans consider themselves conservative. I also remember reading several articles that also included the poll.
So now, the majority of Americans are conservatives but only 20% claim to be republican?
I think you just showed your own lack of intelligence. what, you need to be republican to identify as a conservative? ::) It never occured to you that a good portion of the 42% independents and some dems will identify themselves as conservative? This board alone has several self identified conservatives that are not republican.
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You are wrong.
It is in the constitution.
The election system with electorates are very well described in the US constitution. Here's a paragraph:
Section 2 - The House
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
(Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.) (The previous sentence in parentheses was modified by the 14th Amendment, section 2.) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five and Georgia three.
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
14th Amendment:
2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
The system favors majority.
Ie, as a voter, your vote is "dead" as long as you don't vote for one of the two big parties.
Ralph Nader was long considered to be a spoiler for the Democrats because he ran a campaign despite having absolutely no chance of winning the presidency.
The same is said for the Socialist party.
And the Libertarian party gets a lot of heat for "stealing" GOP votes.
The Libertarian party won't be a factor unless you change the constitution.
Sorry Hedge you are dead wrong on this. Most of the barriers to more parties is on the state level, not the Federal level.
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Sorry Hedge you are dead wrong on this. Most of the barriers to more parties is on the state level, not the Federal level.
In order for a system with proportional representation there would be the need for some major changes.
IMHO, the constitution would have to be totally re-written as for the parts of how the election process of the three branches should be done.
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The GOP needs to swing back to REAL conservatism.Not intervene in other nations and nation build.Not worry so much about social issues[in fact thet should be libertarian on those].REAL conservatism.Not John McCain or Lindsey Gramnesty.
240 the idea that you call Rush drug riddled is as stupid as usual for you.The guy was on pain killers,went to rehab ONCE and is fine.Now,lets compare that to Dead Kennedy and his son.Rush makes no laws,votes on nothing.For a lib who likes the left side of things to call people drug riddled is assanine.Obama himself was a huge drug user by his own admission,somehow thats ok.
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When someone constantly doctor shops around to increase the amount of narcotics that he has been given, that is a sign of drug addiction, hence drug riddled.
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When someone constantly doctor shops around to increase the amount of narcotics that he has been given, that is a sign of drug addiction, hence drug riddled.
As if Rush is the only one?
A good portion of our entire population is addicted to various substances whether it it be drugs, alcohol, etc. Rush is human like anyone else.
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The GOP needs to swing back to REAL conservatism.Not intervene in other nations and nation build.Not worry so much about social issues[in fact thet should be libertarian on those].REAL conservatism.Not John McCain or Lindsey Gramnesty.
240 the idea that you call Rush drug riddled is as stupid as usual for you.The guy was on pain killers,went to rehab ONCE and is fine.Now,lets compare that to Dead Kennedy and his son.Rush makes no laws,votes on nothing.For a lib who likes the left side of things to call people drug riddled is assanine.Obama himself was a huge drug user by his own admission,somehow thats ok.
Sounds more like classic Liberalism in the sense of Adam Smith if you ask me.
But hey. Let's not get into semantics.
I understand what you're saying.
And I agree with you.
Leave social issues like gay and abortion out of it.
Just stick with classic liberalism - small government, protection of personal freedom and independence.
Cut all kinds of regulations. Market, immigration, everything.
Let everything regulate itself.
Just keep the police and law system to enforce the law.
That would probably draw some voters.
I'm not saying I would vote for such a party.
But I think the GOP needs to re-invent itself.
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Sounds more like classic Liberalism in the sense of Adam Smith if you ask me.
But hey. Let's not get into semantics.
I understand what you're saying.
And I agree with you.
Leave social issues like gay and abortion out of it.
Just stick with classic liberalism - small government, protection of personal freedom and independence.
Cut all kinds of regulations. Market, immigration, everything.
Let everything regulate itself.
Just keep the police and law system to enforce the law.
That would probably draw some voters.
I'm not saying I would vote for such a party.
But I think the GOP needs to re-invent itself.
Sadly, I just dont see it happening. look at McCain, Snowe, Graham, Crist, Bushes, etc.
THEY SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sadly, I just dont see it happening. look at McCain, Snowe, Graham, Crist, Bushes, etc.
THEY SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They need to be driven from the party.They are an anchor around the neck of republicans.They are killing the party.
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Less than one month ago there was a posting here which referenced a nationwide poll that stated the majority of Americans consider themselves conservative.
So now, the majority of Americans are conservatives but only 20% claim to be republican?
repub and consevative are not the same thing.
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Well, Bush is out...and George Bush sr. was a good president.
No doubt the republicans must gather around more economic issues, limited government, corporate tax cuts, truely cut gove spending, and protect personal freedoms. If they focus on these and have a decent candidate, I think they will win in 2012. The religious right has slowly been pushed to the side, which is wise for the party.
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Sadly, I just dont see it happening. look at McCain, Snowe, Graham, Crist, Bushes, etc.
THEY SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and why isn't "your" kind of republican doing better in the primaries? why aren't they on the ticket?
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and why isn't "your" kind of republican doing better in the primaries? why aren't they on the ticket?
Because the two parties are really one party.
The parties rig the system via gerrrymandering, special interests, etc so that people who want small government have a harder time breaking "into the club".
I hate the GOP and wished it went away.
However, I will never vote DEM. I will never vote for marxist-lite. Sorry.
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and why isn't "your" kind of republican doing better in the primaries? why aren't they on the ticket?
Name one real conservative that ran.I look at that group and other then Ron Paul,who was a conservative.They were all neo-cons who want to run peoples bedrooms.Not much of a choice there.Plus,not one had any personality at all.
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Republican leaders do not seem to have good organization. By far the most visible people identified with the republican party are the talk show hosts. I agree, they need to create a clear message and identify a few strong leaders if they want to win in 2012.
I also hate the 2 party system, it's insulting to have yourself labeled as belonging to 1 party. There are too many differences among individual members.
agreed im a conservative and probably would consider myself republican but i would have voted hillary over mccain.
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Name one real conservative that ran.I look at that group and other then Ron Paul,who was a conservative.They were all neo-cons who want to run peoples bedrooms.Not much of a choice there.Plus,not one had any personality at all.
So... are you saying the repub party really is the party of conservatives?
if you admit the majority of your candidates were moderates, many with liberal gun, tax, abortion, and healthcare policies...
Are republicans still conservatives? Or are they a moderate group that includes some conservatives?
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So... are you saying the repub party really is the party of conservatives?
if you admit the majority of your candidates were moderates, many with liberal gun, tax, abortion, and healthcare policies...
Are republicans still conservatives? Or are they a moderate group that includes some conservatives?
No,thats the problem.The party,led by utter fools like McCain and Crist are trying to be democrat lite.They need to start putting up strong conservatives if they are to show a differance from Obama.
Look at McCain,for amnesty,for a form of cap and trade,against the bush tax cuts.He couldnt show a differance between himself and Obama.There was very little differance[at least on what they campaigned on,turns out Obama is a facist].
If your not going to stand on conservative principles,leave and go with Obama.
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I think you just showed your own lack of intelligence. what, you need to be republican to identify as a conservative? ::) It never occured to you that a good portion of the 42% independents and some dems will identify themselves as conservative? This board alone has several self identified conservatives that are not republican.
Yes, Hugo, your right. Most of the country is conservative, but only 20% are republican.
The bold section highlights your ignorance of basic mathmatics. Out of 100% of conservatives, only 20% are republican-- So then you mean to tell me the other 80% is as you put it "a large portion of the 42% of independents" ( the smallest voting bloc in the country) and a handfull of dems comprise the other 80%?
So, the largest population of the entire republican base ( or a scant 20% of all conservatives) are republicans?
Common sense is really hard to come by on this board these days.
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Conservatives are not synonymous with republicans. Then you have social vs. economic conservatives.
In general, conservatives are certainly alligned more with republicans then democrats...especially the progressive democrats that we have in office now.
As 33386 says, many republicans are either light democrats or they are neocons. Neither of which are real conservatives. Career politicians in both parties often stick together and encourage stronger government so they stay in power.
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Agreed shoot-- But then what the hell is the polling place defining as "conservative"?
A social conservative with liberal views on spending is what?
Someone with liberal views on social issues, but that is very conservative as to spending is what?
My point is that based on common sense, it is pretty hard to make an argument that only 20% of those who are so called conservative are republicans.
If most of the country is conservative, it is literally impossible for only 20% of all conservatives to be republican-- unless the definition of conservative is stretched to its breaking point or the polling place decided to survey Jupiter.
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I agree.
That's why these labels are too simplistic.
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I agree.
That's why these labels are too simplistic.
I used to be more socially conservative, but now am more libertarian in my views, even though my personal beliefs may be otherwise, the govt really needs to be curtailed in all areas of influence..
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Yes, Hugo, your right. Most of the country is conservative, but only 20% are republican.
The bold section highlights your ignorance of basic mathmatics. Out of 100% of conservatives, only 20% are republican-- So then you mean to tell me the other 80% is as you put it "a large portion of the 42% of independents" ( the smallest voting bloc in the country) and a handfull of dems comprise the other 80%?
So, the largest population of the entire republican base ( or a scant 20% of all conservatives) are republicans?
Common sense is really hard to come by on this board these days.
actually it highlights your ignorance. BOLDLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yea, common sense, get you some ;)
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No,thats the problem.The party,led by utter fools like McCain and Crist are trying to be democrat lite.They need to start putting up strong conservatives if they are to show a differance from Obama.
Look at McCain,for amnesty,for a form of cap and trade,against the bush tax cuts.He couldnt show a differance between himself and Obama.There was very little differance[at least on what they campaigned on,turns out Obama is a facist].
If your not going to stand on conservative principles,leave and go with Obama.
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For the Govenor race in NJ, the Dems have had stumping...Biden, Clinton, Obama.
I was wondering where the Rep big shots were...Bush, Cheney, Palin, McCain, etc...
Why is it that these are not hot sellers in the Garden Stat since they are so well loved on blogs.
Seems lilke the candidates don't wan;t their help.
Sandra
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how is biden campaigning for you going to help anybody but your opponent? :D I mean honestly
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::)
240 shows his supreme intelligence yet again. Less than one month ago there was a posting here which referenced a nationwide poll that stated the majority of Americans consider themselves conservative. I also remember reading several articles that also included the poll.
So now, the majority of Americans are conservatives but only 20% claim to be republican?
3 of the biggest government growth years in the history of the US were 3 of Bush's first 4 years. That ain't conservative.
I'm conservative; very conservative. There's no way in hell I could call myself Republican in this anti-education, Palin worship, 6,000 year old earth, religious right republican party.
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3 of the biggest government growth years in the history of the US were 3 of Bush's first 4 years. That ain't conservative.
I'm conservative; very conservative. There's no way in hell I could call myself Republican in this anti-education, Palin worship, 6,000 year old earth, religious right republican party.
I heard Steve Wynn this morning on CNBC. He was great and i think maybe we can recruit him to win.
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I had my first 3 some with 2 chicks I met at Tryst in the Wynn Hotel on NYE 2007...
So I have a positive imopression of him....
However--- didn't Wynn destroy a 20 million dollar painting that he owned while showing it off to his friends when he slipped and accidentlly punched his hand through the canvas?
Kinda seems to clumsy to run the GOP imo.
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I had my first 3 some with 2 chicks I met at Tryst in the Wynn Hotel on NYE 2007...
So I have a positive imopression of him....
However--- didn't Wynn destroy a 20 million dollar painting that he owned while showing it off to his friends when he slipped and accidentlly punched his hand through the canvas?
Kinda seems to clumsy to run the GOP imo.
CHECK THIS OUT.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1305034181&play=1#
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God bless you George. I'm sure a great experience.
Good points here, the GOP needs some new leadership and needs to focus more on an economic and preservation of personal freedom message. They have to be an umbrella that holds the different factions of the party together so they can get some repubs elected again and balance the government.
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See, the problem now is that being wealthy and successful is almost like having a scarlet letter in politics these days.
Steve Wynn is a brilliant businessman who operates billion dollar Casino's.
The first thing the left will do is portray him as a fat cat conservative who wants to increase Wall Street bonuses or some other nonsensical junk.
It is hard for the GOP to come up with a "leader" in the sense that people will become enamoured with the individual to the extent that the country became fixated with Obama.
The GOP isn't young/ hip/ reckless/ stupid/ idealistic/ celebrity driven.
All the GOP needs to do is present a viable candidate with alternative solutions and allow the democrats to continue shooting themselves in the foot with radical agendas and out of control spending.
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See, the problem now is that being wealthy and successful is almost like having a scarlet letter in politics these days.
Steve Wynn is a brilliant businessman who operates billion dollar Casino's.
The first thing the left will do is portray him as a fat cat conservative who wants to increase Wall Street bonuses or some other nonsensical junk.
It is hard for the GOP to come up with a "leader" in the sense that people will become enamoured with the individual to the extent that the country became fixated with Obama.
The GOP isn't young/ hip/ reckless/ stupid/ idealistic/ celebrity driven.
All the GOP needs to do is present a viable candidate with alternative solutions and allow the democrats to continue shooting themselves in the foot with radical agendas and out of control spending.
No offence.
But I would never support a man who's made his fortune on other people's misfortunes.
I bet (pun intended) this Stevie-O is a confessed Christian as well. That's glaring hypocrisy right there.
Just like I would never vote for an arms dealer, a tobacco man or similar.
I have friend who was making lots of money in the sports betting industry.
He quit cold turkey. Said he had found God. And now he's trying to become a police officer (it's pretty hard to get in over here).
But he told me he was through with the sports betting, it went against his inner compass.
I don't share his faith, but I definitely think he walked the walk when he walked out on his past life.
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No offence.
But I would never support a man who's made his fortune on other people's misfortunes.
I bet (pun intended) this Stevie-O is a confessed Christian as well. That's glaring hypocrisy right there.
Just like I would never vote for an arms dealer, a tobacco man or similar.
I have friend who was making lots of money in the sports betting industry.
He quit cold turkey. Said he had found God. And now he's trying to become a police officer (it's pretty hard to get in over here).
But he told me he was through with the sports betting, it went against his inner compass.
I don't share his faith, but I definitely think he walked the walk when he walked out on his past life.
Why is it hypocrital?
It is a legal business no?
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Why is it hypocrital?
It is a legal business no?
[.quote]
How many family economies have Steves business ruined while building his fortune?
I am no fan of guys like him that's all.
Better examples are Steve Jobs of Apple, Warren Buffet and just about any inventor or entrepreneur who's creating stuff that is productive.
JMO