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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: noworries on November 02, 2009, 01:51:47 PM

Title: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: noworries on November 02, 2009, 01:51:47 PM
I can't believe they still only pay fitness instructors $20 per class.  My daughters mom was very well known as an aerobic instructor back in the early 80's.  She performed during halftime at a Laker Game and bunch of other things like that.  I saw her doing a class out on a tennis court before the event at West End in LA.  They had maybe 250 people on the courts with her while she did a session.  Her nickname was "Flashdance" because she looked like Jennifer Beals and she dressed like her.  Way back then she was making $20 to $30 an hour class.  She usually taught 2 classes a night.  During the day she was a physical therapist.


http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/24-hour-lawsuit-group-ex-payment-20091030/ (http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/24-hour-lawsuit-group-ex-payment-20091030/)
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: wes mantooth on November 02, 2009, 01:57:29 PM
"Amara Posadas-Romesberg, one of the original plaintiffs, has been a group exercise instructor at a 24 Hour in Chula Vista, CA, since 1997. Romesberg teaches five to seven classes a week and makes $20 an hour. 24 Hour instructors get paid one hour for each class, according to the lawsuit, even though instructors arrive early to set up equipment and stay late to clean up or talk to members about the class."

OMG!! How dare they get paid $20 an hour to teach aerobics.  ::) ::)

And the nerve of the 24 hour Fitness to make them set up and actually SHOW UP EARLY to work!!! The HORROR!!!!


This country is going to pure T shit.

gimme a fucking break
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 02, 2009, 02:54:39 PM
OMG!! How dare they get paid $20 an hour to teach aerobics.  ::) ::)

...so to make a living wage they should teach 40 aerobics classes a week?

Wouldn't that kill you within 6 weeks?


At least a Roman galley slave could expect to live 6 months.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: shootfighter1 on November 02, 2009, 03:00:54 PM
If you don't like it, go somewhere else.  That's how the system works.  Then if the club wants good experienced instructors, they need to pay more to attract them.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: emn1964 on November 02, 2009, 03:02:48 PM
Alot of people would love to get paid 20 bucks an hour.  What a bunch of shit.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 02, 2009, 03:37:56 PM
Alot of people would love to get paid 20 bucks an hour.  What a bunch of shit.

That's how corporations control and effectively enslave populations.

A local corner store can't find workers paying $9 an hour... but if Walmart abuses their employment monopoly by only paying $9 an hour; that sets an industry standard. Now the corner store can pay $8 an hour, no problem.

That's what I don't understand about the American mentality... I understand capitalist free market fundamentalism, it's a (somewhat) justifiable ideology...

But why don't the proponents of such thinking (ie: those parroting the propaganda) comprehend that monopolies; corporations; corporate personhood and cartels are ANTI-CAPITALIST?


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: Alex23 on November 02, 2009, 06:27:09 PM
That's how corporations control and effectively enslave populations.

A local corner store can't find workers paying $9 an hour... but if Walmart abuses their employment monopoly by only paying $9 an hour; that sets an industry standard. Now the corner store can pay $8 an hour, no problem.

That's what I don't understand about the American mentality... I understand capitalist free market fundamentalism, it's a (somewhat) justifiable ideology...

But why don't the proponents of such thinking (ie: those parroting the propaganda) comprehend that monopolies; corporations; corporate personhood and cartels are ANTI-CAPITALIST?


The Luke

Well said "The Luke"... I enjoyed reading your post.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: wes mantooth on November 02, 2009, 06:31:02 PM
...so to make a living wage they should teach 40 aerobics classes a week?

Wouldn't that kill you within 6 weeks?


At least a Roman galley slave could expect to live 6 months.


The Luke

if you think teaching aerobics is a full time job then your fucking crazy.

are you retarded?

its called supplemental income. by your reasoning they should be paid $300 an hour so they can "make a living" ::)


they get free gym memberships as well. they should be lucky to get paid $20 a class
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: timfogarty on November 02, 2009, 06:45:13 PM
24 Hour instructors get paid one hour for each class, according to the lawsuit, even though instructors arrive early to set up equipment and stay late to clean up or talk to members about the class.

this is the part that will cause 24 hour to loose.   courts don't like it when you don't get compensated for time you're required to work
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: wes mantooth on November 02, 2009, 06:54:39 PM
this is the part that will cause 24 hour to loose.   courts don't like it when you don't get compensated for time you're required to work

agree

unless it is part of the original agreement. gotta put it all in writing these days
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: JaggyShortBuff on November 02, 2009, 07:33:41 PM
Where 24hr fitness will win is in the lack of evidence from the instructor to prove her case of arriving before and stay after to do extra work. Unless there is video evidence and or time clock evidence..... Just stating the facts as they are presented.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 03, 2009, 09:32:33 AM
Where 24hr fitness will win is in the lack of evidence from the instructor to prove her case of arriving before and stay after to do extra work. Unless there is video evidence and or time clock evidence..... Just stating the facts as they are presented.

...CCTV.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: shootfighter1 on November 03, 2009, 10:21:51 AM
$20 per class is a typical rate in a lot of fitness centers.  If she doesn't like it, she should start her own classes somewhere else or try to negotiate with them.  They may realize there's more value for them if giving her an extra $5 per class keeps a great instructor.

This is why many personal trainers go on their own and don't work for the big companies.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 03, 2009, 10:22:04 AM
...CCTV.


The Luke
LOL none of the 24's ive been to have CCTV in the gym itself

this may not be needed though, im sure there members that witness the instructors show up early to set up and stay behind to clean up.

I agree they might get screwed on the making them show up early and stay late but only paying for an hour. As for the rest though go somewhere else if you dont like the pay. If you want to get payed for the member per class dont be surprised if they want you to meet quotas, LOL I wonder how many aerobics instructors would be in favor of that shit?  ::)

This wont cause them to change their pay rates but it will probably cause them to pay some back pay or at the very least pay for every min that can be accounted for in the future.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 03, 2009, 11:12:20 AM
As for the rest though go somewhere else if you dont like the pay.

...and how do you do that when almost every aspect of American industry has been monopolised by cartels of massive corporations?

We have this same shit happening here in Ireland, one massive milk distributor or one massive beet processor hammering farmers on price and forcing them to sell below cost. Except over here we don't have people attacking the little guy by spouting the corporate propaganda... we tend to side with the common bloke, you guys seem so convinced that someday you too will be one of the super rich that you want to keep things skewed in their favour.

Strange?

Paying people only $20 an hour for something as tough as teaching an aerobics class is simply abusive.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: ~flower~ on November 03, 2009, 11:17:47 AM
If they had worded it '$20 per class' there would be no lawsuit.  I believe that is how they are paid around here, per class, not by the hour.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 11:21:31 AM
...so to make a living wage they should teach 40 aerobics classes a week?

Wouldn't that kill you within 6 weeks?


At least a Roman galley slave could expect to live 6 months.


The Luke

The difference being the slave had no choice about their being a slave, as opposed to the woman who is free to quit and look for another job.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: shootfighter1 on November 03, 2009, 11:24:31 AM
Complete disagree with Luke on this one.  She has choices and can chose to go somewhere else.  There's no monopoly here, that arguement doesn't apply at all to a non-specific aerobics class.  Dude, you spend too much time with your pro-union literature.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 03, 2009, 11:33:40 AM
The difference being the slave has no choice about their being a slave, as opposed to the woman who is free to quit and look for another job.

Why do sensible people repeat this type of drivel?

The whole "If you don't like it you can go work somewhere else!" bullshit is EMPLOYER propaganda.

Any working class person repeating that is simply enslaving themselves. Kiwiol, you are a disgrace to your class; the bottom 99%.


Quitting is not her only option, it's just the only option her employer would like her to consider.

Her options (in order of ascending aggression) are:
-complaint
-labour court
-lawsuit
-work to rule
-forming a union
-strike
-boycott
-monopsony

...all of these are perfectly legal and complaint is the only one companies aren't scared shitless by.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 11:47:58 AM
Why do sensible people repeat this type of drivel?

The whole "If you don't like it you can go work somewhere else!" bullshit is EMPLOYER propaganda.

Are you saying she is not free to quit and go work elsewhere?

Leave your analysis of me out of it and answer the question. Cause you're as accurate as you were, when you used to make all those 9000 word posts about Sarcasm being 14 years old.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 03, 2009, 12:07:00 PM
Are you saying she is not free to quit and go work elsewhere?


...she is.

But why do you guys assume that is all she is entitled to do? She is equally as entitled to take any of the perfectly legal actions I listed.

Indoctrinated much?



The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 12:16:26 PM

...she is.

But why do you guys assume that is all she is entitled to do? She is equally as entitled to take any of the perfectly legal actions I listed.

Indoctrinated much?



The Luke

That's much better.

And yes, she's free to pursue any of the legal actions you've listed. But that's beside the point. The point is that companies like Walmart offer what they do as wages, but don't force anyone to take the job. So the comparison to slavery is wrong.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 03, 2009, 01:01:37 PM
That's much better.

And yes, she's free to pursue any of the legal actions you've listed. That's beside the point. The point is that companies like Walmart offer what they do as wages, but don't force anyone to take the job. So the comparison to slavery is wrong.

...monopolies DO force people to take slave wages.

That's why companies strive to attain and maintain monopolies, because it allows them make wage slaves of their workers.

Companies like Walmart are the reason the world economy is falling to shit. Their irresponsible corrupt business model inevitably collapses into neo-feudalism.

Monopolies are anti-competitive.
Monopolies are anti-supplier; anti-worker; anti-consumer.
Monopolies are anti-Free-Market-Capitalism.
Monopolies are anti-Democratic.
Monopolies are anti-human.

But here on GetBig we have a bunch of supposedly knowledgeable Free Market Fundamentalists who don't understand any of this... all they know is what the Rothchilds want them to think.

But hey... if you don't like what I'm posting you're free to go find someone who'll lie to you.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: Boost on November 03, 2009, 01:13:36 PM
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 01:19:28 PM
...monopolies DO force people to take slave wages.

That's why companies strive to attain and maintain monopolies, because it allows them make wage slaves of their workers.

Companies like Walmart are the reason the world economy is falling to shit. Their irresponsible corrupt business model inevitably collapses into neo-feudalism.

Monopolies are anti-competitive.
Monopolies are anti-supplier; anti-worker; anti-consumer.
Monopolies are anti-Free-Market-Capitalism.
Monopolies are anti-Democratic.
Monopolies are anti-human.

But here on GetBig we have a bunch of supposedly knowledgeable Free Market Fundamentalists who don't understand any of this... all they know is what the Rothchilds want them to think.

But hey... if you don't like what I'm posting you're free to go find someone who'll lie to you.


The Luke

How is Walmart a monopoly? Are you saying that they have the power to prevent someone from forming a rival company that could, for example, pay double the wages they do while only charging half the price for the same products they sell?

Monopoly is only possible if the government interferes and forbids individuals or corporations from manufacturing and selling products or services that would compete with the company that's holding the monopoly. If there is no governmental interference, then anyone is free to run a company like Walmart out of business by providing a similar or better quality of goods & / or services at a lower price while perhaps even paying higher wages. In a free market, the best product has the biggest share of the market.

As for your talking about Walmart wiping out the little fellows, don't forget that they offer goods of the same or better quality for a much lower price than the little fellows could ever offer you, with a lot more convenience in terms of payments, hours of operation, range of products to choose from, multiple locations etc
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: wes mantooth on November 03, 2009, 01:52:08 PM


Paying people only $20 an hour for something as tough as teaching an aerobics class is simply abusive.



So what would you propose?

I think trying to tie in world economics and the running rate across America for an aerobics instructor is a stretch. Now without telling us that we have been victimized and brainwashed by corrupt monopolies...tell us what you would think is a fair price? Why is $20 per class for an aerobics instructor a bad thing?

Shouldnt school teachers be paid more?
shouldnt police officers be paid more?
shouldnt civil servants be paid more?
Shouldnt we all be paid more?

unfortunately, it doesnt work like that in every case. IN THIS CASE, every gym in America pays aerobics instructors AROUND $20 to $25 per class (about an hour) If an individual such as yourself finds that this set wage is not "fair", why not find another occupation? All industries need balance and set standards
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 03, 2009, 01:56:56 PM
How is Walmart a monopoly? Are you saying that they have the power to prevent anyone from forming a rival company that could, for example, pay double the wages they do while only charging half the price for the same products they sell?

Monopoly is only possible if the government interferes and forbids individuals or corporations to start manufacturing and selling products or services that would compete with the company that's holding the monopoly. If there is no governmental interference, then anyone is free to run a company like Walmart out of business by providing a similar or better quality of goods & / or services at a lower price while perhaps even paying higher wages. In a free market, the best product has the biggest share of the market.

As for your talking about Walmart wiping out the little fellows, don't forget that they offer goods of the same or better quality for a much lower price than the little fellows could ever offer you, with a lot more convenience in terms of payments, hours of operation, range of products to choose from, multiple locations etc

If Walmart has cut costs so much that it is now paying slave wages... the only way anyone can now compete with them is to pay NO wages.

Remember, Free Market Fundamentalism such as you are espousing is a religion... it has no basis in reality.

I'm somewhat surprised by your lack of understanding in this matter Kiwiol.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 02:12:42 PM
If Walmart has cut costs so much that it is now paying slave wages... the only way anyone can now compete with them is to pay NO wages.

So by your own admission, offering competitive prices wouldn't leave a hypothetical Walmart competitor with enough of a profit margin to afford to pay even the kind of wage that Walmart pays. Ask yourself what that means.

You keep referring to Walmart as a monopoly, which is wrong. A monopoly is established by a company only when there is no possible chance for another company to compete with them by providing the goods & / or services that are offered by the former. And the only body that has the power to prevent a rival from competing is the government.

So if 90% of the US (not an exact figure, but just as an example) choose to use Microsoft, then Microsoft is not a monopoly. They just have the biggest share of the market. But if the US government suddenly says that no one else is permitted to manufacture and supply operating systems and such other than Microsoft, THAT would make Microsoft a monopoly.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 03, 2009, 02:17:35 PM
The Puke likes to gives us all lessons on corporate and economic structures when he himself has never had a job.  Obviously, Puke is an Obama gimmick posting here.  Go hunt for sasquatch and leave the wage bitching to those who have a job, you fucking midget.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 03, 2009, 03:01:56 PM
...and how do you do that when almost every aspect of American industry has been monopolised by cartels of massive corporations?

We have this same shit happening here in Ireland, one massive milk distributor or one massive beet processor hammering farmers on price and forcing them to sell below cost. Except over here we don't have people attacking the little guy by spouting the corporate propaganda... we tend to side with the common bloke, you guys seem so convinced that someday you too will be one of the super rich that you want to keep things skewed in their favour.

Strange?

Paying people only $20 an hour for something as tough as teaching an aerobics class is simply abusive.


The Luke
WTF are you talking about ding bat? 24 doesnt have any damn monopoly you idiot

and 20 bucks an hour equates to around 38000 a year, not bad for minimal education

who told them to work at 24? why not go into work for themselves?

personal accountability isnt really preached in ireland i see  ::)
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 11:04:59 PM
The Puke likes to gives us all lessons on corporate and economic structures when he himself has never had a job.  Obviously, Puke is an Obama gimmick posting here.  Go hunt for sasquatch and leave the wage bitching to those who have a job, you fucking midget.

LOL!
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: gordiano on November 03, 2009, 11:14:48 PM
If they had worded it '$20 per class' there would be no lawsuit.  I believe that is how they are paid around here, per class, not by the hour.

SHOW ME YOUR TITS!
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: Topskin69 on November 03, 2009, 11:34:52 PM

I think the entire notion of the Employee vs. The evil Corporation is a bit of a False Dichotomy, or at least a bit of a one dimensional way of looking at it. It makes no sense for the Employer and Employee to have an adversial relationship, as one cannot function without the other. While I realize that many employers do wind up taking the easy road and screwing over their employees, this business plan does not usually pan out in the long run, and winds up being a great error of shortsightedness on the part of the company.

In other words "A kingdom divided against itself; cant stand."

Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: timfogarty on November 03, 2009, 11:40:53 PM
and 20 bucks an hour equates to around 38000 a year, not bad for minimal education

no it doesn't because no one could do aerobics 40 hours a week 47 weeks a year, or 36 hours a week 52 weeks a year, or how ever you calculated that
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 03, 2009, 11:57:24 PM
I think the entire notion of the Employee vs. The evil Corporation is a bit of a False Dichotomy, or at least a bit of a one dimensional way of looking at it. It makes no sense for the Employer and Employee to have an adversial relationship, as one cannot function without the other. While I realize that many employers do wind up taking the easy road and screwing over their employees, this business plan does not usually pan out in the long run, and winds up being a great error of shortsightedness on the part of the company.

In other words "A kingdom divided against itself; cant stand."



Exactly. Sure there are some employers who try to take unfair advantage of some of their employees, but there are also tons of employees who rip off their employers in various ways. But over time, the market will put each in the place they deserve. No one can keep ripping someone off and still stay on top or even where they are, cause word will spread and a competitor who doesn't have the flaw(s) will wipe the bad one out.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: disco_stu on November 04, 2009, 12:37:20 AM
omg the luke- a mans man and someone who i finally agree with at GB.

couldnt have said it better myself.

The US is extremely attractive to the well off or the talented, or educated, or skilled...but if you are out of luck, or not blessed with many talents, it is hell on earth. then dont even dare to get sick as well....

it happens in other countries, but not to the same extent, and not before the government steps in or the people say "hang on" . The US on the other hand see it as an opportunity to benefit, rather than help their fellow man..because one day you might need it (that help). instead, for some bizarre reason, they think, "screw them, thats their problem"   well, errrr, no. thats the reason why you have a problem. because its dog eat dog in the US and everyone thinks they are going to be rich or famous one day. when it doesnt work out, they lash out at the system. the very same system that may have allowed them to live well at some point.

to sum it up... the US = . Biggest dog eats little dog. The pack doesnt exist. Dogs roam and fight for territory. mangy dogs die due to stavation.
most other civilised countries = big dog is challenged by the pack regularly, mangy dog is assisted by the pack to survive and given a bone.

dont know how this became a dog analogy.


Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 04, 2009, 05:55:42 AM
Exactly. Sure there are some employers who try to take unfair advantage of some of their employees, but there are also tons of employees who rip off their employers in various ways. But over time, the market will put each in the place they deserve. No one can keep ripping someone off and still stay on top or even where they are, cause word will spread and a competitor who doesn't have the flaw(s) will wipe the bad one out.

Free Market Fundamentalism is a pernicious myth... like all religions.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 04, 2009, 06:32:55 AM
Free Market Fundamentalism is a pernicious myth... like all religions.


The Luke

Why not be honest and admit you can't refute what I said, instead of making a cliched blanket statement that you obviously can't prove because it simply isn't true? ;D
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dr.chimps on November 04, 2009, 06:50:05 AM
Clash of the Financial Titans going on. Forests will be felled, mountains laid low and valleys lifted.  ;D

*hides under desk*  
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 04, 2009, 07:34:32 AM
Forests will be felled, mountains laid low and valleys lifted.

That would make Sasquatch spotting from the air a lot easier...
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tendonitis on November 04, 2009, 07:38:32 AM
Sasquatch is trying to monopolize the elusive creature market.
The Loch Ness monster isn't happy.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dr.chimps on November 04, 2009, 07:43:52 AM
That would make Sasquatch spotting from the air a lot easier...
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: Rome on November 04, 2009, 08:08:23 AM
That's how corporations control and effectively enslave populations.

A local corner store can't find workers paying $9 an hour... but if Walmart abuses their employment monopoly by only paying $9 an hour; that sets an industry standard. Now the corner store can pay $8 an hour, no problem.

That's what I don't understand about the American mentality... I understand capitalist free market fundamentalism, it's a (somewhat) justifiable ideology...

But why don't the proponents of such thinking (ie: those parroting the propaganda) comprehend that monopolies; corporations; corporate personhood and cartels are ANTI-CAPITALIST?


The Luke
QFT!
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 09:36:37 AM
no it doesn't because no one could do aerobics 40 hours a week 47 weeks a year, or 36 hours a week 52 weeks a year, or how ever you calculated that
I know this tim and no gym could have enough members to run 40 hours of classes in a 5 day week. This doesnt mean 24 should have to pay them more thats idiotic as someone else mentioned this isnt meant to be a full time job.

I think the problem is the fact they are meant to show up early and stay late without compensation not the 20 bucks an hour luke is making it into.

you want them to pay them 100 bucks a class? come the fuk on

again you want more pay, fine ask for commission on the number of members you have per class...LOL lets see how happy those instructors are then.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: noworries on November 04, 2009, 10:17:08 AM
I know this tim and no gym could have enough members to run 40 hours of classes in a 5 day week. This doesnt mean 24 should have to pay them more thats idiotic as someone else mentioned this isnt meant to be a full time job.

I think the problem is the fact they are meant to show up early and stay late without compensation not the 20 bucks an hour luke is making it into.

you want them to pay them 100 bucks a class? come the fuk on

again you want more pay, fine ask for commission on the number of members you have per class...LOL lets see how happy those instructors are then.

Um alot of gyms offer 40 classes a week and more.  Gold's in West Hollywood have something like 100+ a week.  I actually posted this just because I can't believe the instructors are getting the exact and even less than my girlfriend was making back in the early 80's.  You guys think they are getting overpaid?  A plumber will charge you $100 to come and tighten a bolt on a toilet or garbarge men get over $20 an hour to drive a truck and pick up trash
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 10:48:16 AM
Um alot of gyms offer 40 classes a week and more.  Gold's in West Hollywood have something like 100+ a week.  I actually posted this just because I can't believe the instructors are getting the exact and even less than my girlfriend was making back in the early 80's.  You guys think they are getting overpaid?  A plumber will charge you $100 to come and tighten a bolt on a toilet or garbarge men get over $20 an hour to drive a truck and pick up trash
over 7 days bro not 5 and over probably 13 hours a day

I never said they were overpaid I said a lot of ppl would like to get paid 20 bucks an hour. You ppl seem to think these are their full time jobs  ::) this is a part time job and should be treated as such. Many aerobics instructors are personal trainers who teach classes on the side.

why dont they go become plumbers then or trashmen instead of bitching about a choice they decided to make?

Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: Noel Fuller on November 04, 2009, 11:23:06 AM
24 hour will lose big, its up to the employer to prove it not the employee
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: kiwiol on November 04, 2009, 11:26:42 AM
Um alot of gyms offer 40 classes a week and more.  Gold's in West Hollywood have something like 100+ a week.  I actually posted this just because I can't believe the instructors are getting the exact and even less than my girlfriend was making back in the early 80's.  You guys think they are getting overpaid?  A plumber will charge you $100 to come and tighten a bolt on a toilet or garbarge men get over $20 an hour to drive a truck and pick up trash

It's a question of demand and supply, skill of labor involved and the size of the available work force. Aerobics instructors are a dime a dozen and the fitness industry by it's nature is one where people are constantly moving. So there's no need to pay more than $20 for the "average" instructor, cause if they leave, there's always plenty of others to fill the spot. Plumbing is a skilled trade and the ratio of number of plumbers available vs plumbing jobs is different.

Your girlfriend was making a lot more than the average wage because of her profile. It's the same as Personal Trainers with a full blown degree and having a lot of associated skills / certificates + a good profile charging more than the average PT who does a certificate course over 3 weekends and becomes accredited, even though they don't actually know shit about a lot of things.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: timfogarty on November 04, 2009, 11:38:23 AM
Gold's in West Hollywood have something like 100+ a week. 

On Santa Monica Blvd, the city of West Hollywood ends just east of La Brea.  Gold's Hollywood is on Cole, a good 10 blocks farther east.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tommywishbone on November 04, 2009, 11:41:48 AM
Walmart sucks.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 11:43:53 AM
24 hour will lose big, its up to the employer to prove it not the employee
how is it up to the employer to disprove their claims?
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dr.chimps on November 04, 2009, 11:45:23 AM
Walmart sucks.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: shootfighter1 on November 04, 2009, 01:13:47 PM
24 hour fitness does not have a monopoly on the aerobics industry, thats ludicrois Luke.

Your taking a concept from banking and industry (where I agree monopolies are bad) and applying it inappropriately.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: just_a_pilgrim on November 04, 2009, 02:03:04 PM
If they pay her more then they have to charge more for membership, so prices everywhere will eventually go up and her pay rise then becomes meaningless.

Large corporations who have a significant share of a market don't start out that way. If someone works harder and is better than their competitors then they will grow. If they stay the same they have a good chance of dying out.

The Luke, maybe it sucks to you, but the world and business has to work one way. If you start paying the instructor more for a relatively unskilled job in a saturated market it will impact other areas, it won't necessarily make things better the way you want them.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 04, 2009, 02:21:20 PM
If they pay her more then they have to charge more for membership, so prices everywhere will eventually go up and her pay rise then becomes meaningless.

...because they couldn't possibly reduce the CEO's pay or the shareholder dividend?


You guys have a very poor grasp of how this shit works... while America is spiraling into a bankrupt monoculture: every coffee shop a Starbucks; every supermarket a Walmart; every pharmacy a Walgreens; every diner a McDonalds... the middle class are being pushed into serfdom.

To quote Gerald Celente: "Every day low prices, means every day low-paying jobs!"

India has the worlds fastest growing middle class (granted they have a long way to go); but they are doing it by copying exactly what America did during the 1950s:
-Mom & Pop stores
-college education
-skills, trades and apprenticeships
-private business ownership
-workers rights
-far business conditions for entrepreneurs
-(relatively) narrow income disparity

A shiny dollar to anyone who can tell me what Walmart pays per hour in India, and why?


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 09:00:56 PM
...because they couldn't possibly reduce the CEO's pay or the shareholder dividend?


You guys have a very poor grasp of how this shit works... while America is spiraling into a bankrupt monoculture: every coffee shop a Starbucks; every supermarket a Walmart; every pharmacy a Walgreens; every diner a McDonalds... the middle class are being pushed into serfdom.

To quote Gerald Celente: "Every day low prices, means every day low-paying jobs!"

India has the worlds fastest growing middle class (granted they have a long way to go); but they are doing it by copying exactly what America did during the 1950s:
-Mom & Pop stores
-college education
-skills, trades and apprenticeships
-private business ownership
-workers rights
-far business conditions for entrepreneurs
-(relatively) narrow income disparity

A shiny dollar to anyone who can tell me what Walmart pays per hour in India, and why?


The Luke
LOL save the melodramatics for when your practicing your speeches in the mirror  ::)

24 hour fitness and walmart are apples and oranges, your points on walmart could be argued but trying to argue those same points with 24 is idiotic and leads you to say stupid shit like this...
...because they couldn't possibly reduce the CEO's pay or the shareholder dividend?
of course he could they could take a pay cut but she could also go work elsewhere

the united states is an "at will" work country as in you can work and not work at will

please tell me why she had to work at 24?
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dyslexic on November 04, 2009, 09:23:27 PM
Give her $22.50 a class and tell her to STFU. She didnt generate that clientele, the gym did.

If you wanna pay the bitch for an empty class, you can give her $5 or $6 for a no-show.


Give her some gym perks on top of it, which I'm sure she already has. She probably doesn't even use the gym outside of her classes. Why? Because she is also being paid while she stays in shape (if she even is in shape)


If she wants more money, get certified for PT and do that on top of her wanna be aerobics classes, which are basically nothing short of a social gathering of sweaty, fat women. They usually spend more time talking that exercising anyway.


WTF ever.


My top  aerobics instructors get $25 an hour- the Yoga instructors get even more, because they actually do generate their own (wierd and freaky) clientele. The Yoga instructors also go through a hell of a lot more time and money to get certified.


If the gym doesn't pay attention to all the fat hoe's who are running into the classes at the last minute, it's hard for them to even get their cut. Some of these pigs might even be grabbing waters from the refrigerator and shit.


You have to have an added clause in your original contract to pay an extra ammount for aerobics classes. With the cost of running a gym today, you cant have that as an added free feature. Why?


Oh.. yeah, because the bitchy instructors ALWAYS want more money for nothin and their dick for free.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 04, 2009, 09:59:26 PM
tonymctones or dyslexic,


Wanna take a breath and have a go at this?

A shiny dollar to anyone who can tell me what Walmart pays per hour in India, and why?


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
tonymctones or dyslexic,


Wanna take a breath and have a go at this?


The Luke
wanna tell me how that pertains to 24 and aerobics instructors in the US?

again walmart and 24 in the US is apples and oranges nevertheless 24's in the US and walmarts in india you fuking tard.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 04, 2009, 10:07:04 PM
wanna tell me how that pertains to 24 and aerobics instructors in the US?

again walmart and 24 in the US is apples and oranges nevertheless 24's in the US and walmarts in india you fuking tard.

...didn't think you knew.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 10:16:23 PM
...didn't think you knew.


The Luke
there is no point to know it has no bearing on the situation at hand whatsoever... ;)
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 04, 2009, 10:21:20 PM
there is no point to know it has no bearing on the situation at hand whatsoever... ;)

...well maybe you should ask the mods to move this thread to the Politics Board, where it will fit in very well with the rest of your shameful assertions of ignorance.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: noworries on November 04, 2009, 10:25:09 PM
At the gym here they don't pay the aerobic instructors.  They do a trade off.  They allow the instructor to train for fre and also they are personal trainers and they don't have to give anything back to the gym and they have to give 10 hours or so week for free introductory PT sessions.  They are required to teach a certain number of classes per week.  At least someone told me that.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 10:30:45 PM
...well maybe you should ask the mods to move this thread to the Politics Board, where it will fit in very well with the rest of your shameful assertions of ignorance.


The Luke
hahaha dont worry id deflect too if id got backed into a corner in my own thread too.

again how does what ppl get paid in india at walmart pertain to an aerobics instructor at 24 here in the US?  ;) dont worry i dont expect you to answer i just want to see you deflect again


you mean like your ignorant assertion that the US never won a war?  ;) hahaha what a great one that was
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 04, 2009, 10:43:19 PM
again how does what ppl get paid in india at walmart pertain to an aerobics instructor at 24 here in the US?  ;) dont worry i dont expect you to answer i just want to see you deflect again

That's the whole crux of my point... the American middle class is being destroyed by the corporatisation of the USA... and you tools are cheering it on, thoroughly and willingly indoctrinated by an unquestioning quasi-religious belief in banking cleptocracy: Free Market Fundamentalism.


So I used the example of India, with the world's fastest growing middle class, hoping someone would answer my trick question and thereby elucidate my entire point.

Alas... once again, I have overestimated my audience.

Last chance:
A shiny dollar to anyone who can tell me what Walmart pays per hour in India, and why?


The Luke 
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 04, 2009, 11:09:54 PM
That's the whole crux of my point... the American middle class is being destroyed by the corporatisation of the USA... and you tools are cheering it on, thoroughly and willingly indoctrinated by an unquestioning quasi-religious belief in banking cleptocracy: Free Market Fundamentalism.


So I used the example of India, with the world's fastest growing middle class, hoping someone would answer my trick question and thereby elucidate my entire point.

Alas... once again, I have overestimated my audience.

Last chance:

The Luke 
lol again bro apples and oranges a different country with different laws etc...etc...

Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dyslexic on November 04, 2009, 11:33:17 PM
I suppose you are just simply attempting to correlate Walmart's negative impact on labor with the fitness industry...


The wages in India are half of what they are in China which is somewhere around 0.23 cents an hour.


So... Walmart is making huge profits while keeping its workers in poverty, driving small businesses into bankruptcy, exploiting workers in poor countries, and disregarding the environment. Their strategy is based on ruthlessly cutting costs, allowing it to undersell its competitors and earn enormous profits.


And this thread has officially been brutally (or is it epically?) "hijacked"


Point taken... not sure why.

Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 05, 2009, 09:16:44 AM
I suppose you are just simply attempting to correlate Walmart's negative impact on labor with the fitness industry...


The wages in India are half of what they are in China which is somewhere around 0.23 cents an hour.


So... Walmart is making huge profits while keeping its workers in poverty, driving small businesses into bankruptcy, exploiting workers in poor countries, and disregarding the environment. Their strategy is based on ruthlessly cutting costs, allowing it to undersell its competitors and earn enormous profits.


And this thread has officially been brutally (or is it epically?) "hijacked"


Point taken... not sure why.


lol again like i said apples and oranges
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 05, 2009, 09:57:47 AM
A shiny dollar to anyone who can tell me what Walmart pays per hour in India, and why?

...better just make this point:


Walmart doesn't pay ANY wages in India. Neither do Starbucks. They don't have any stores there.

Because chain stores are illegal in India... illegal due to being classed as an unfair form of anti-competitive business practice.

Yet India has the worlds fastest growing middle class, and an incredibly high rate of business ownership.


The Luke 
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 05, 2009, 11:28:56 AM
...better just make this point:


Walmart doesn't pay ANY wages in India. Neither do Starbucks. They don't have any stores there.

Because chain stores are illegal in India... illegal due to being classed as an unfair form of anti-competitive business practice.

Yet India has the worlds fastest growing middle class, and an incredibly high rate of business ownership.


The Luke 
so again it has no bearing on this situation whatsoever and you just wanted to talk out your ass...gotcha  ;)
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 05, 2009, 11:40:39 AM
so again it has no bearing on this situation whatsoever and you just wanted to talk out your ass...gotcha  ;)

...or you can't draw a parallel due to insufficient mental acuity? Maybe?



The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dr.chimps on November 05, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
Alas... once again, I have overestimated my audience.

The Luke 
Oh brother. Why don't you pm Debussey and MattC and get your self-congratulatory Mensa gangbang out of the way.
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 05, 2009, 01:14:16 PM
...or you can't draw a parallel due to insufficient mental acuity? Maybe?



The Luke
LOL for the n^teenth time luke where did you go to school and what was your field of study?

its not that i cant draw a parallel its that in this instance there is no parallel if you want to talk about wal mart here in the US fine but 24 and walmart are apples and oranges
 
and as such is 2 countries with separate business laws and regulations  ::)
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: California Muscle on November 05, 2009, 03:59:36 PM
That's how corporations control and effectively enslave populations.

A local corner store can't find workers paying $9 an hour... but if Walmart abuses their employment monopoly by only paying $9 an hour; that sets an industry standard. Now the corner store can pay $8 an hour, no problem.

That's what I don't understand about the American mentality... I understand capitalist free market fundamentalism, it's a (somewhat) justifiable ideology...

But why don't the proponents of such thinking (ie: those parroting the propaganda) comprehend that monopolies, corporations, corporate personhood and cartels are ANTI-CAPITALIST?


The Luke



Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: dyslexic on November 05, 2009, 07:17:08 PM
...better just make this point:


Walmart doesn't pay ANY wages in India. Neither do Starbucks. They don't have any stores there.




The Luke 



Uhhhh... O.K

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/12/AR2009071202176.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/business/worldbusiness/27iht-store.3689499.html
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 05, 2009, 07:51:02 PM


Uhhhh... O.K

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/12/AR2009071202176.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/business/worldbusiness/27iht-store.3689499.html
Dont try and confuse luke with facts dyslexic  >:( ;D facts are lukes kryptonite
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 06, 2009, 08:17:10 AM
Uhhhh... O.K

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/12/AR2009071202176.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/business/worldbusiness/27iht-store.3689499.html

...holy shit! When did that happen? They changed the law?

Guess the Walmart lobbyists have been handing out suitcases of cash in India since I last read about it.

Oh, well... so long India's middle class.


The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: wes mantooth on November 06, 2009, 10:37:54 PM
...holy shit! When did that happen? They changed the law?

Guess the Walmart lobbyists have been handing out suitcases of cash in India since I last read about it.

Oh, well... so long India's middle class.


The Luke

so does this mean your entire argument has crumbled? or that you are not in touch with reality after 2008? who gets the shiny dollar now?

still waiting to hear what you think is a reasonable rate for payment for an aerobics class........
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: tonymctones on November 06, 2009, 10:41:11 PM
so does this mean your entire argument has crumbled? or that you are not in touch with reality after 2008? who gets the shiny dollar now?

still waiting to hear what you think is a reasonable rate for payment for an aerobics class........
Id like to know that as well  ;D
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: The Luke on November 06, 2009, 10:51:51 PM
so does this mean your entire argument has crumbled? or that you are not in touch with reality after 2008? who gets the shiny dollar now?

...just a few months behind the corruption.



The Luke
Title: Re: Class-Action Suit against 24 Hour Fitness
Post by: G o a t b o y on November 06, 2009, 11:08:14 PM
...because they couldn't possibly reduce the CEO's pay or the shareholder dividend?


That's always a tired argument.  There's one CEO and thousands of line-level employees.  If you paid the CEO zero, that might save enough to increase them all from $20.00/hr to $20.10/hr.  Whoop-de-doo!     (plus you wouldn't have a ceo anymore.... nobody works for free).

As for shareholder dividends, let's see...  if you earn some money, and put it in a retirement fund or 401k instead of sending it, you expect a return on it, do you not?  Otherwise, you may as well stuff it in your mattress or go out and buy that big-screen TV.  If companies didn't pay a fair rate of return on people's money, nobody would invest in companies to begin with and the whole economy would grind to a halt.

Sorry life in Ireland sucks, but pro-union Karl Marx bullshit doesn't square with reality.