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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: BodyProSite on November 13, 2009, 03:41:05 PM
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why not just kill these fuckers they have already admitted to doing it, why continue to spend another dime on their worthless asses , just kill them and be done , they had no problem killing over 3000 civilians, men women and children , why should we care anything about there rights? even though they are not american so I dont know why they get american rights?? people in their culture dont get trials, they get real forms of torture, not water boarding , then beheaded
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You sound much like a scummmbag NeoCon......true?
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so with that being said i bet you think hitler deserved a trial too and to have peoples hard earned tax dollars wasted on keeping his junky ass alive in prison, besides what are you doing off your daddy racheal maddows dick long enough to post on here , he is gona be mad and whoop your ass
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Sure thing Mons....sure thing.
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why not just kill these fuckers they have already admitted to doing it, why continue to spend another dime on their worthless asses , just kill them and be done , they had no problem killing over 3000 civilians, men women and children , why should we care anything about there rights? even though they are not american so I dont know why they get american rights?? people in their culture dont get trials, they get real forms of torture, not water boarding , then beheaded
Then we would really be no different than them. What separates us from barbaric 13th century religious nut jobs hell bent on our destruction is that we believe in laws that protect our rights. In the heat of battle, of course it's different, but prisoners are not in the heat of battle. Should they be tried with the same rights as american citizens? Probably not. But they shouldn't be summarily executed. Otherwise we are just a nut job of a different color.
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Got to prove them guilty before they can be punished you numskull...
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so with that being said i bet you think hitler deserved a trial too and to have peoples hard earned tax dollars wasted on keeping his junky ass alive in prison, besides what are you doing off your daddy racheal maddows dick long enough to post on here , he is gona be mad and whoop your ass
Yeah......
They actually had trials for all the nazi's captured. Yeah, Churchill and Roosevelt and all those Generals were such libs. Of course Stalin (who was once a community organizer like Obama :D) wanted to execute like 100,000 of them.
In case you don't know the name of the famous trials:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials)
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Oz- Were the Nuremberg trials held in a civilian court room a few paces from where the war crimes took place?
Did the Nazi war criminals receive all the benefits of the civilian criminal justice system along with the angloamerican safeguards in place for criminal defendants such as the rules of evidence, Miranda warnings etc.?
Were the Nuremberg defendants given the benefit of the US constitution?
Did the Nuremberg trials occur in a time where technology and media coverage had the potential to turn the proceedings into an absolute circus?
Did the prosecutors at trial have to worry about compromising sources, the threat of betraying intelligence methods or the proceedings themselves being blown up by a lone wolf Nazi sympathizer or a global Nazi terrorist organization?
This is an absolute disgrace and a total farce. The fact that this abomination is going to take place in my city makes me sick to my stomach. This is a cowardly and incompetent move by Obama and his sanctimonious douchebag Attorney General. This is going to be nothing more than a several year long circus that gives terrorist scum an open propaganda forum to spew their anti-american drivel to the entire planet.
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Oz- Were the Nuremberg trials held in a civilian court room a few paces from where the war crimes took place?
Did the Nazi war criminals receive all the benefits of the civilian criminal justice system along with the angloamerican safeguards in place for criminal defendants such as the rules of evidence, Miranda warnings etc.?
Were the Nuremberg defendants given the benefit of the US constitution?
Did the Nuremberg trials occur in a time where technology and media coverage had the potential to turn the proceedings into an absolute circus?
Did the prosecutors at trial have to worry about compromising sources, the threat of betraying intelligence methods or the proceedings themselves being blown up by a lone wolf Nazi sympathizer or a global Nazi terrorist organization?
This is an absolute disgrace and a total farce. The fact that this abomination is going to take place in my city makes me sick to my stomach. This is a cowardly and incompetent move by Obama and his sanctimonious douchebag Attorney General. This is going to be nothing more than a several year long circus that gives terrorist scum an open propaganda forum to spew their anti-american drivel to the entire planet.
Is this what we are so outraged about http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5AC1S720091113 (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5AC1S720091113)?
It says the attorney General plans to seek death penalty for 9/11 suspects.
I ponder, if successful will it show the rest of the muslim world, the ones who's faith and hearts the terrorists seek, that the suspects were tried fairly on a legit court? Will it show that good won over evil and that the American system of true justice prevailed and has more long term value to the progression and survival of one's religious foundations?
Anyways, I'm not arguing whether having a trial now will not compare to the Nuremberg trials. I'm only pointing out that we did hold trials, we just didn't go an pop a cap in everyone's head.
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Oz- this happened already during the first WTC bombing in 1993.
The end result was that the same nut job cockroaches came back and finished the job. In the process human cesspool Lynee Stewart ( the blind Sheiks lawyer) helped smuggle coded messages to his followers in the middle east. The result? Dozens of innocent tourists were massacred on a bus in Egypt. One of the Sheiks followers left a note stuck in one of the victims disemboweled torso calling for the Sheiks release.
That farce will pail in comparison to this one.
While your hearts and minds argument would normally hold water, understand this. You cant win the battle for hearts and minds when the people you are trying to convince have NEITHER and the ones that do will largely be foreclosed from comprehending or appreciating the luxury that these barbarians are being given by having a trial in an American civilian court. Do you really think a bunch of uneducated ( or educated but brainwashed) extremists are going to give a fuck? This trial will create more terrorists than a million Guantanamo's ever could. Waterboarding, Karl Rove and the war on Islam are going to be the menu items of this trial. I highly doubt Aljazeera, the Iranian media or other extremist hotbeds around the world are going to hail this trial as some sort of accomplishment.
Non enemy combatants that wage war against the United States should be tried before a military tribunal. Giving these animals a forum to spew their anti American propaganda and dishonor the memory of those murdered on 911 is so sickening to me as an American I can't even put it into words. All of these animals are going to cry torture and the trial is going to turn into a referendum on waterboarding and CIA tactics.
This is a political power play by Obama and his team of a idealistic do-gooders.
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Oz- this happened already during the first WTC bombing in 1993.
The end result was that the same nut job cockroaches came back and finished the job. In the process human cesspool Lynee Stewart ( the blind Sheiks lawyer) helped smuggle coded messages to his followers in the middle east. The result? Dozens of innocent tourists were massacred on a bus in Egypt. One of the Sheiks followers left a note stuck in one of the victims disemboweled torso calling for the Sheiks release.
That farce will pail in comparison to this one.
While your hearts and minds argument would normally hold water, understand this. You cant win the battle for hearts and minds when the people you are trying to convince have NEITHER and the ones that do will largely be foreclosed from comprehending or appreciating the luxury that these barbarians are being given by having a trial in an American civilian court. Do you really think a bunch of uneducated ( or educated but brainwashed) extremists are going to give a fuck? This trial will create more terrorists than a million Guantanamo's ever could. Waterboarding, Karl Rove and the war on Islam are going to be the menu items of this trial. I highly doubt Aljazeera, the Iranian media or other extremist hotbeds around the world are going to hail this trial as some sort of accomplishment.
Non enemy combatants that wage war against the United States should be tried before a military tribunal. Giving these animals a forum to spew their anti American propaganda and dishonor the memory of those murdered on 911 is so sickening to me as an American I can't even put it into words. All of these animals are going to cry torture and the trial is going to turn into a referendum on waterboarding and CIA tactics.
This is a political power play by Obama and his team of a idealistic do-gooders.
Really? So you think the typical muslim doesn't have a heart and mind? I'm not suggesting nut jobs can change. I'm suggesting that the world stage will show America as stupidly barbaric as the nut jobs if just summarily kill them.
I know quite few muslims. There are muslims who raise families and just want the best for them like you and i and there are muslims who are 13th century nut jobs (none of which i know) because most of them are in Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq. And most of those are living in the mountains. Those (nut jobs) are a very small percentage of muslims who have direct access to main stream muslims via, propaganda, intimidation, and proximity. So how we handle this does matter.
Like i said, i don't know that they should be tried with the same rights as Americans, and I don't know that they will. I do know however, that we have a responsibility on the world stage to walk the walk and saying it is a Obama's do-gooders mission is irrelevant. And how these bitches cry in court doesn't matter as in Saddam's trial, no one gave a rats ass what he said.
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why not just kill these fuckers they have already admitted to doing it, why continue to spend another dime on their worthless asses , just kill them and be done , they had no problem killing over 3000 civilians, men women and children , why should we care anything about there rights? even though they are not american so I dont know why they get american rights?? people in their culture dont get trials, they get real forms of torture, not water boarding , then beheaded
2nd that
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This is another disgusting act by the Scumbag-in-Chief.
1. These terrorists do not deserve a civilian trial and should be tried in a military tribunal.
2. What is the reason fro a trial since they already confessed many times over?
3. The people who investigated 9/11 to capture these terrorists werre not adhering to civilian procedures in evidence etc . This is pure madness.
4. Having already confessed, the costs of this will be in the ten of millions of dollars while these animals make a mockery of the system.
5. Rudy already said the 93' trial of Ramzi Yusef comprimised a ton of national security.
This is truly perhaps one of the worst things this asshole has done yet. I have lived in NYC area my whole life and people are really pissed over this. The local radio stations are booming with people pissed off at Obama for this.
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1. These terrorists do not deserve a civilian trial and should be tried in a military tribunal.
tried??? TRIED??? see this is why yall go wrong...
he is an extremist muslim....he wants to go to heaven.....lets help him along and publicly behead the bastard
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The trial will be held blocks from Ground Zero. Bloomberg is very happy about this.
The guys already confessed, so they're all getting found guilty. Instead of just never hearing about them again, NYC gets a chance to look these cawksuckers in the eye one last time, slam the gavel down, and lock them up for life.
People seem to be either really for, or really against, this move. I don't live in NYC, so I have no clue what the locals are saying. I have to believe that there are *some* people who lost relatives on 9/11 who will see this as closure. Just as many family of victims will show up to see the killer executed. Some people need that.
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The trial will be held blocks from Ground Zero. Bloomberg is very happy about this.
The guys already confessed, so they're all getting found guilty. Instead of just never hearing about them again, NYC gets a chance to look these cawksuckers in the eye one last time, slam the gavel down, and lock them up for life.
People seem to be either really for, or really against, this move. I don't live in NYC, so I have no clue what the locals are saying. I have to believe that there are *some* people who lost relatives on 9/11 who will see this as closure. Just as many family of victims will show up to see the killer executed. Some people need that.
240 - the confesssions might get throw out. Ask GW. Forced confesssions are not admissible in court as evidence and all "fruits of the poisoned tree" are thrown out as well.
240 - you are not an attorney. GW has a good grasp on law. This is not the slam dunk you think it is by any stretch. Bloomberg is not a lawyer either.
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240 - the confesssions might get throw out. Ask GW. Forced confesssions are not admissible in court as evidence and all "fruits of the poisoned tree" are thrown out as well.
240 - you are not an attorney. GW has a good grasp on law. This is not the slam dunk you think it is by any stretch. Bloomberg is not a lawyer either.
Would the outcome with a military trial be any diff from a civvie trial? Different evidence? Etc?
I think the white house is using it as a huge PR win. I predicted Obama would get people to forget about crap/trade and other issues by taking the wheel and showing us some positive things - on his own schedule.
I'm betting this trial wraps up with some tidy, public high profile convictions, right around election time 2010. And will people remember the stim bill, or cap, or obamacare then? Or will they read liberal headlines declaring "Obama finishes off 911 bad guys in NYC, something Bush couldn't do..." and just smile, nod head, and vote Dem?
Obama is a smart dude. Get all the wild lib shit done early, then do all the high profile stuff that non-news watchers will notice on the their mornign AOL screen, right around election time.
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I have no problem trying them but it should absolutely be in military court. These terrorists will love this and a trial will inspire other radical muslim leaders. They will use their court appearance to trash America and talk about their mistreatment, which will become a major focus. That's what Holder and Obama want...to put the Bush administration through the ringer along with the terrorists.
We also have a potential of releasing too much military and intel information through a public civilian court. I'm no legal expert but pretty sure the way evidence is handled in a criminal public court is different than a military court. This is appauling to me. Should be done in military tribunal.
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Would the outcome with a military trial be any diff from a civvie trial? Different evidence? Etc?
I think the white house is using it as a huge PR win. I predicted Obama would get people to forget about crap/trade and other issues by taking the wheel and showing us some positive things - on his own schedule.
I'm betting this trial wraps up with some tidy, public high profile convictions, right around election time 2010. And will people remember the stim bill, or cap, or obamacare then? Or will they read liberal headlines declaring "Obama finishes off 911 bad guys in NYC, something Bush couldn't do..." and just smile, nod head, and vote Dem?
Obama is a smart dude. Get all the wild lib shit done early, then do all the high profile stuff that non-news watchers will notice on the their mornign AOL screen, right around election time.
240 - are you a lawyer? No. I am.
Trials like this will last for at least 3-5 years because the defense counsel will get massive wide ranging discovery.
you have no idea how bad this is. Again, your not a lawyer and need to educate yourself.
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240 - are you a lawyer? No. I am.
Trials like this will last for at least 3-5 years because the defense counsel will get massive wide ranging discovery.
you have no idea how bad this is. Again, your not a lawyer and need to educate yourself.
Like I said, I'm asking Qs because I don't know how all that works.
My point isn't about the validity of this show trial. it's about the political move of Obama. This is clearly a political move, and one that could benefit him. Will this trial REALLY last 5 years? Is that what you're saying?
O wants a public win - and those guys walking out with guilty verdicts will deliver that. This is politics. I'm not gonna argue legal - I don't know that arena. My point is that despite this being a bad idea - it's good politics if it goes his way. If.
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Like I said, I'm asking Qs because I don't know how all that works.
My point isn't about the validity of this show trial. it's about the political move of Obama. This is clearly a political move, and one that could benefit him. Will this trial REALLY last 5 years? Is that what you're saying?
O wants a public win - and those guys walking out with guilty verdicts will deliver that. This is politics. I'm not gonna argue legal - I don't know that arena. My point is that despite this being a bad idea - it's good politics if it goes his way. If.
240 - this is Obama giving in to the left wing freak show circuis act.
They wanted his to prosecute Bush and the CIA. He didnt do it and they have been screaming since.
By doing this, this allows the terrorists to put Bush, the CIA, etc on trial instead of Obama doing it. \
240 - you have no idea how bad this is.
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240 - this is Obama giving in to the left wing freak show circuis act.
They wanted his to prosecute Bush and the CIA. He didnt do it and they have been screaming since.
By doing this, this allows the terrorists to put Bush, the CIA, etc on trial instead of Obama doing it. \
240 - you have no idea how bad this is.
I'm in complete agreement with you. Lots of potential bad things from this. however, this may benefit him politically to bash Bush, claim a win, etc. "I put those terrorists on trial in New York City...." It may be something he can use in 2012 debates. Some claim of anti-terror accomplishment. I"m not saying it's legit 33 - I'm saying to numbnet debate viewers, it might work. He can always pin any loss on shoddy work during Bush era as well.
Also...why is bloomberg so happy about it?
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I'm in complete agreement with you. Lots of potential bad things from this. however, this may benefit him politically to bash Bush, claim a win, etc. "I put those terrorists on trial in New York City...." It may be something he can use in 2012 debates. Some claim of anti-terror accomplishment. I"m not saying it's legit 33 - I'm saying to numbnet debate viewers, it might work. He can always pin any loss on shoddy work during Bush era as well.
Also...why is bloomberg so happy about it?
Bloomberg is not a lawyer.
As far as Obama, he is playing politics with national security.
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240 - do you think Rudy knows a thing or 2 about law, terrorism, etc?
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240- the point is that this is not a sure win!
Everything collected from enhanced interrogation will be inadmissible in court--- EVERYTHING.
The government will also not be able to bring any sources into court to be cross examined, so everything they gave the government is inadmissible as well.
In 1993 when the first WTC trial occurred, almost all participants were located in the tristate area. The trial took 4 years. Now, we are flying in individuals who have never even set foot in America before to be tried in a civilian court 3 blocks from ground zero. Jury selection alone is going to take 6 months at least! Any decent defense attorney is going to highlight the inability for the defendants to get a fair trial.
Discovery motions are going to clog the trial to stand still, the burden of proof is much higher in a civilian court and the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments are going to make convicting these animals very challenging.
God forbid if these pieces of shit are acquitted or the case is tossed on a technicality. I think we may see the first lynch mob in NYC since the civil war days.
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As far as Obama, he is playing politics with national security.
I'm not debating that. I'm just saying mark my words... when 2012 rolls arund and we're watching the debates, he'll try to use this as proof of his "pro-active" nature on fighting terror. When palin screams about "Palling with terrorists", Obama can respond with something like "I stopped giving the terrorists a beachside vacation in Gitmo that Bush did, and moved them to new york city so they could learn a thing about justice - from a jury of you, the American people!"
And you KNOW that shit will work on some voters. I'm just talking political strategy here. I'd have made the terrorists walk the plank in 2001.
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I'm not debating that. I'm just saying mark my words... when 2012 rolls arund and we're watching the debates, he'll try to use this as proof of his "pro-active" nature on fighting terror. When palin screams about "Palling with terrorists", Obama can respond with something like "I stopped giving the terrorists a beachside vacation in Gitmo that Bush did, and moved them to new york city so they could learn a thing about justice - from a jury of you, the American people!"
And you KNOW that shit will work on some voters. I'm just talking political strategy here. I'd have made the terrorists walk the plank in 2001.
240 - watch the guiliani clips I posted. He was a federal prosecutor and knows the law as good as anyone.
Watch these clips and let is sink in to your head.
Obama hates this country. I have been saying it for months, and every single day I am proven correct in this respect.
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240 - do you think Rudy knows a thing or 2 about law, terrorism, etc?
Rudy not credible anymore IMO.
His right-hand man Kerik going to prison.
His company's association with mid east bad guys.
His own party rejecting him in 2008.
And of course, he hates everything Obama does.
There are way more credible voices standing against this.
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Rudy not credible anymore IMO.
His right-hand man Kerik going to prison.
His company's association with mid east bad guys.
His own party rejecting him in 2008.
And of course, he hates everything Obama does.
There are way more credible voices standing against this.
240 - he was a federal proscecutor for years and beat the mafia in NYC.
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240 - he was a federal proscecutor for years and beat the mafia in NYC.
Again, let's not move the topic between us - I agree it's a shitty idea to hold this trial, in terms of law and order.
However, for political purposes, it's a calculated risk that could work. He'll be able to look america in the eyes in the debates and claim "I put those terrorists on trial, in New York City!" which will resurrect all sorts of "let's get behind our leader!" emotions in swing voters.
I don't think Obama hates america, as you say. I think he is using this case to gain something to brag about in 2012 debates. It's that simple.
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Rudy not credible anymore IMO.
His right-hand man Kerik going to prison.
His company's association with mid east bad guys.
His own party rejecting him in 2008.
And of course, he hates everything Obama does.
There are way more credible voices standing against this.
Apparently deep thought isn't your strong suit. What do any of the aformentioned things have to do with Rudy's knowledge of law? He was a brilliant trial lawyer for many years as a former federal prosecutor. If he isn"t a "credible" voice on this issue, then nobody is.
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This is what I love about the Obama admin, they are all about the people ::), then go and do something like this. For starters this is going to be a security nightmare, you don't think AQ is going to try something? Then lets bring this asshole to NYC, didn't we already see how fresh 9/11 is still in New Yrokers minds after airfiorce one buzzed the city?
There is no hope for this admin stupid fucking decision after stupid fucking decision with no regard for the safety and well fare of those that are going to be involved in this trail.
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You sound much like a scummmbag NeoCon......true?
And you sound like a left wing tree huggin, metrosexual, twat. You not even good enough to be a poor excuse for a man
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This is what I love about the Obama admin, they are all about the people ::), then go and do something like this. For starters this is going to be a security nightmare, you don't think AQ is going to try something? Then lets bring this asshole to NYC, didn't we already see how fresh 9/11 is still in New Yrokers minds after airfiorce one buzzed the city?
There is no hope for this admin stupid fucking decision after stupid fucking decision with no regard for the safety and well fare of those that are going to be involved in this trail.
Kazan: this admn is by far the worst of my lifetime.
I am speechless at the daily insults this admn throws at the citizens.
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33,
Ya never addressed my point. Do you think some swing voters who don't pay attention to the news much will feel some emotional connection when obama proudly pats himself on the back for "Bringing the terrorists to justice, in the very place they struck!"
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While I agree with you in terms of it being a bad legal idea... isn't it something that *could* work for him in those debates (even if the trials haven't started yet)?
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33,
Ya never addressed my point. Do you think some swing voters who don't pay attention to the news much will feel some emotional connection when obama proudly pats himself on the back for "Bringing the terrorists to justice, in the very place they struck!"
?
While I agree with you in terms of it being a bad legal idea... isn't it something that *could* work for him in those debates (even if the trials haven't started yet)?
240 - I think swing voters are beginning to be horrified and disgusted by this admn. The November elections showed you a tiny fraction of what is going to happen in 2010 as UE goes higher.
This will not work for him since those trials are not going to happen for at least 4 or 5 years. 240 - you have no idea what a circus this is going to be.
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240 - I think swing voters are beginning to be horrified and disgusted by this admn. The November elections showed you a tiny fraction of what is going to happen in 2010 as UE goes higher.
This will not work for him since those trials are not going to happen for at least 4 or 5 years. 240 - you have no idea what a circus this is going to be.
Yeah, the more I read about it, the more it sounds like it's for show.
Even if the trials haven't begun, he'll be able to claim ownership of it and possibly gain from it. He can honestly say "I'm bringing the remaining purpritrators of 911 back to ground zero, where they can be tried just blocks from the very attack that affected so many americans..."
A line like that will ring with a lot of voters. You're a lawyer and you understand some of cap/trade. Imagine what joe dropout knows about it. Nothing. it's a non-issue for probably the majority of voters. But when it's "cool" to watch the debates when they pre-empt American idol in a few years, obam will be able to pull on some heart strings with a line like that. Suddenly HE become the pro-active anti-terror guy.
in that manner, this decision, no matter how far ahead the trials may be, coudl benefit him politically. And this is the politics board, not the legal board :)
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Another thing 240 - this is giving in the terrorists. This is exactly what they want. Kill US citizens, and then, at taxpayer expense, get to make a mocklery of our system and lock up the courts and media for years on end.
Thank you democrats for voting in this disgusting POFS. I guess Palin was right again.
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Another thing 240 - this is giving in the terrorists. This is exactly what they want. Kill US citizens, and then, at taxpayer expense, get to make a mocklery of our system and lock up the courts and media for years on end.
Thank you democrats for voting in this disgusting POFS. I guess Palin was right again.
and again, i am not debating the trial itself - I'm pointing out how it can benefit him politically. Even more if the trails haven't started. Then it won't matter to him how they go - he got his 2 terms, right?
I think we'll hear that line in 3 years. He'll trumpet his brave move to defy the Bush admin's wishes and bring the bad guys back to NYC to finally lock them up. That soundbite is all that'll matter, and in a close election this could be a huge thing.
Just looking at things politically dude. he can now claim some ownership on 911.
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The fact these scum could be freed on some technicality is truly a risk that should not be taken. Out of all the pathetic and ridiculous things Obama has done already, this has to be at the top of the list. I am truly disgusted. If they are found not guilty, this will have a huge backlash against Obama..except for liberals...I'm sure they would be deliriously happy if these "poor, misguided, sympathetic Muslims" were acquitted. The USA is rapidly becoming the joke of the world.
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I guess my girl was 1000000000000% CORRECT 240!
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33,
Ya never addressed my point. Do you think some swing voters who don't pay attention to the news much will feel some emotional connection when obama proudly pats himself on the back for "Bringing the terrorists to justice, in the very place they struck!"
?
While I agree with you in terms of it being a bad legal idea... isn't it something that *could* work for him in those debates (even if the trials haven't started yet)?
People are waking up to what biggest bait and switch scam ever pulled off in this country. And the US has KSM for years, it's not like Obama went out and captured him single handedly.
Maybe it works for him, or maybe some judge throws the case out because he wasn't read his Miranda rights. Or maybe they decide that his confession was tortured out of him and throw it out. There are many things that could happen that AG "I'm a fucking idiot" Holder isn't taking into consideration.
Stop for a minute and think what would happen if KSM walks on a technicality, the POTUS wouldn't have to wait to for the elections to thrown out of office the American people would demand impeachment because of incompetence.
Just the fact that this piece of shit is being afforded the same legal rights of an American citizen make me want to vomit.
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Remember this gem?
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People are waking up to what biggest bait and switch scam ever pulled off in this country. And the US has KSM for years, it's not like Obama went out and captured him single handedly.
Maybe it works for him, or maybe some judge throws the case out because he wasn't read his Miranda rights. Or maybe they decide that his confession was tortured out of him and throw it out. There are many things that could happen that AG "I'm a fucking idiot" Holder isn't taking into consideration.
Stop for a minute and think what would happen if KSM walks on a technicality, the POTUS wouldn't have to wait to for the elections to thrown out of office the American people would demand impeachment because of incompetence.
Just the fact that this piece of shit is being afforded the same legal rights of an American citizen make me want to vomit.
All correct. But. If he gets the wheels in motion for NYC, and nothing happens for 5 years on it...
He'll still have that one-liner. And I think that's a very powerful 1-liner to casual political followers. One-liners won him this election, remember.
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Other thoughts.....
- BUSH had this guy for 6 years. WTF?
- Would they chance going to court if there was any way he wasn't found guilty?
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Other thoughts.....
- BUSH had this guy for 6 years. WTF?
- Would they chance going to court if there was any way he wasn't found guilty?
A civilian trial is never a guranty. OJ anyone?
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A civilian trial is never a guranty. OJ anyone?
I doubt it.
If they walked, it would bring down the government.
Didn't Cochoran pass away recently? :)
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I doubt it.
If they walked, it would bring down the government.
Didn't Cochoran pass away recently? :)
Yes, however, any confressions and the evidence that the got from waterboarding or orther "coercive" tactics will likely be thrown out.
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All correct. But. If he gets the wheels in motion for NYC, and nothing happens for 5 years on it...
He'll still have that one-liner. And I think that's a very powerful 1-liner to casual political followers. One-liners won him this election, remember.
Yes and an even more power full one liner would be "The President that let the 9/11 mastermind walk". Mickey Mouse could run against him wain after that.
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Yes and an even more power full one liner would be "The President that let the 9/11 mastermind walk". Mickey Mouse could run against him wain after that.
I have come to the belief that Obama does not even want a 2nd term.
His goal is to screw us so bad, so deep, that we are screwed forever with his crap & tax, Health Care Deform, permanent 10% + UE, etc and then try to be president of the World.
I have no doubt that his goal os to be president of the world. He does not give a rats ass about this nation.
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I have come to the belief that Obama does not even want a 2nd term.
His goal is to screw us so bad, so deep, that we are screwed forever with his crap & tax, Health Care Deform, permanent 10% + UE, etc and then try to be president of the World.
I have no doubt that his goal os to be president of the world. He does not give a rats ass about this nation.
Or your bias is clouding your objectivity.
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Yes and an even more power full one liner would be "The President that let the 9/11 mastermind walk". Mickey Mouse could run against him wain after that.
333386 said it will be 3 to 5 years before any trial.
This means O can use the "I'm the guy that prosecuted 9/11 bad guys in NYC!" to win in 2012, and then it doesn't matter for his job if they beat the rap.
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333386 said it will be 3 to 5 years before any trial.
This means O can use the "I'm the guy that prosecuted 9/11 bad guys in NYC!" to win in 2012, and then it doesn't matter for his job if they beat the rap.
Look at the mousaoi trial and how that went.
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9/11 suspects face possible death in NYC trial
The alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks and four suspected co-plotters will be tried in a civilian court blocks from where Al-Qaeda hijackers crashed two airliners into the World Trade Center, the US government announced.
Attorney General Eric Holder said Friday that prosecutors would seek the death penalty against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other suspects who are held at Guantanamo Bay but will be moved to a New York prison ahead of their trial.
"After eight years of delay, those allegedly responsible for the attacks of September 11 will finally face justice," Holder said, without giving a date.
"They will be brought to New York to answer to their alleged crimes in a courthouse just blocks away from where the Twin Towers once stood."
Five more Guantanamo detainees, including Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, accused of plotting the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole destroyer off Yemen that killed 17 US sailors, will be tried before military commissions.
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Look at the mousaoi trial and how that went.
Life in prison without possibility of parole, supermax prison, under Bush.
Obama wanted to send them to supermax prisions, and everyone called him a pansy.
Obama is, once again, following the Bush precendent. The only diff is, Bush had SEVEN YEARS to try these pricks - he just sat and did nothing. NO new evidence came up against these cats in 04, 05, 06, 07 and 08.
He just didn't want to be the guy to send them to trial. Fuct up.
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9/11 suspects face possible death in NYC trial
The alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks and four suspected co-plotters will be tried in a civilian court blocks from where Al-Qaeda hijackers crashed two airliners into the World Trade Center, the US government announced.
Attorney General Eric Holder said Friday that prosecutors would seek the death penalty against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other suspects who are held at Guantanamo Bay but will be moved to a New York prison ahead of their trial.
"After eight years of delay, those allegedly responsible for the attacks of September 11 will finally face justice," Holder said, without giving a date.
"They will be brought to New York to answer to their alleged crimes in a courthouse just blocks away from where the Twin Towers once stood."
Five more Guantanamo detainees, including Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, accused of plotting the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole destroyer off Yemen that killed 17 US sailors, will be tried before military commissions.
240 - should the people who plotted Pearl Harbor been tried in a local Hawaiian court?
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240 - should the people who plotted Pearl Harbor been tried in a local Hawaiian court?
maybe - just maybe - they weren't able to gather much evidence against these guys, even though they know they are guilty as pig shit.
And maybe they know they'll get convicted in NYC on emotion alone.
If you have any explanation why Dubya didn't indict these pricks in military tribute to prevent giving his lib successor a chance to let them off - please share. The record shows BUSH used similar trials on a man who ADMITTED HE WAS the 20th HIJACKER!!!
O just doing what W did.
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maybe - just maybe - they weren't able to gather much evidence against these guys, even though they know they are guilty as pig shit.
And maybe they know they'll get convicted in NYC on emotion alone.
If you have any explanation why Dubya didn't indict these pricks in military tribute to prevent giving his lib successor a chance to let them off - please share. The record shows BUSH used similar trials on a man who ADMITTED HE WAS the 20th HIJACKER!!!
O just doing what W did.
I dont think mousaoiu was waterboarded and caught overseas by the CIA and subjected to enhancred interrogation. I have to look up what happened in that case, but from what I understand, they did not have to reveal sources, etc in that case. Here we have 5 defendants and each has subpoena power, is able to get wide ranging discovery, etc.
I also dont see the need for this since they already confessed to their guilt.
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Friday, November 13, 2009
Holder's Hidden Agenda, cont'd . . . [Andy McCarthy]
This summer, I theorized that Attorney General Eric Holder — and his boss — had a hidden agenda in ordering a re-investigation of the CIA for six-year-old alleged interrogation excesses that had already been scrutinized by non-partisan DOJ prosecutors who had found no basis for prosecution. The continuing investigations of Bush-era counterterrorism policies (i.e., the policies that kept us safe from more domestic terror attacks), coupled with the Holder Justice Department's obsession to disclose classified national-defense information from that period, enable Holder to give the hard Left the "reckoning" that he and Obama promised during the 2008 campaign. It would be too politically explosive for Obama/Holder to do the dirty work of charging Bush administration officials; but as new revelations from investigations and declassifications are churned out, Leftist lawyers use them to urge European and international tribunals to bring "torture" and "war crimes" indictments. Thus, administration cooperation gives Obama's base the reckoning it demands but Obama gets to deny responsibility for any actual prosecutions.
Today's announcement that KSM and other top al-Qaeda terrorists will be transferred to Manhattan federal court for civilian trials neatly fits this hidden agenda. Nothing results in more disclosures of government intelligence than civilian trials. They are a banquet of information, not just at the discovery stage but in the trial process itself, where witnesses — intelligence sources — must expose themselves and their secrets.
Let's take stock of where we are at this point. KSM and his confederates wanted to plead guilty and have their martyrs' execution last December, when they were being handled by military commission. As I said at the time, we could and should have accommodated them. The Obama administration could still accommodate them. After all, the president has not pulled the plug on all military commissions: Holder is going to announce at least one commission trial (for Nashiri, the Cole bomber) today.
Moreover, KSM has no defense. He was under American indictment for terrorism for years before there ever was a 9/11, and he can't help himself but brag about the atrocities he and his fellow barbarians have carried out.
So: We are now going to have a trial that never had to happen for defendants who have no defense. And when defendants have no defense for their own actions, there is only one thing for their lawyers to do: put the government on trial in hopes of getting the jury (and the media) spun up over government errors, abuses and incompetence. That is what is going to happen in the trial of KSM et al. It will be a soapbox for al-Qaeda's case against America. Since that will be their "defense," the defendants will demand every bit of information they can get about interrogations, renditions, secret prisons, undercover operations targeting Muslims and mosques, etc., and — depending on what judge catches the case — they are likely to be given a lot of it. The administration will be able to claim that the judge, not the administration, is responsible for the exposure of our defense secrets. And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America's defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts. And the intelligence bounty will make our enemies more efficient at killing us.
11/13 10:57 AMShare
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The Doofus in Chief just doubled down on stupid again.
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The trial will be held blocks from Ground Zero. Bloomberg is very happy about this.
The guys already confessed, so they're all getting found guilty. Instead of just never hearing about them again, NYC gets a chance to look these cawksuckers in the eye one last time, slam the gavel down, and lock them up for life.
People seem to be either really for, or really against, this move. I don't live in NYC, so I have no clue what the locals are saying. I have to believe that there are *some* people who lost relatives on 9/11 who will see this as closure. Just as many family of victims will show up to see the killer executed. Some people need that.
did you read GW's post today?
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Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bombings
Published November 17, 2010 | FoxNews.com
Former Guantanamo Bay detainee Ahmed Ghailani was found not guilty on all but one charge Wednesday by a civilian jury in New York, in a case with ramifications for President Obama's policy toward Guantanamo and civilian trials for terror suspects.
Ghailani was acquitted in federal court on more than 280 charges in connection with the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, including one murder count for each of the 224 people killed. He was found guilty for only one charge, conspiracy to destroy government buildings.
Ghailani faces a minimum sentence of 20 years in prison and a possible life sentence. He will remain in custody and sentencing will take place on Jan. 25, 2011.
The acquittal is seen as a major blow to the U.S. government, as Ghailani was the first former Gitmo detainee to be tried in a civilian courtroom. The case had been viewed as a possible test case for President Barack Obama administration's aim of putting other terror detainees -- including self-professed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed and four other terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- on trial on U.S. soil.
The anonymous federal jury deliberated over seven days, with a juror writing a note to the judge saying she felt threatened by other jurors.
Prosecutors had branded Ghailani a cold-blooded terrorist. The defense portrayed him as a clueless errand boy, exploited by senior Al Qaeda operatives and framed by evidence from contaminated crime scenes.
The judge had earlier decided that a star witness would not be allowed to testify because the witness was identified while Ghailani was held at a secret CIA camp that used harsh interrogation techniques. It is unknown what effect this witness would have had on the case.
Prosecutors had alleged Ghailani helped an Al Qaeda cell buy a truck and components for explosives used in a suicide bombing in his native Tanzania on Aug. 7, 1998. The attack in Dar es Salaam and a nearly simultaneous bombing in Nairobi, Kenya, killed 224 people, including 12 Americans.
The day before the bombings, Ghailani boarded a one-way flight to Pakistan under an alias, prosecutors said. While on the run, he spent time in Afghanistan as a cook and bodyguard for Osama bin Laden and later as a document forger for Al Qaeda, authorities said.
He was captured in 2004 in Pakistan and held by the CIA at a secret overseas camp. In 2006, he was transferred to Guantanamo and held until the decision last year to bring him to New York.
Despite losing its key witness, the government was given broad latitude to reference Al Qaeda and bin Laden. It did -- again and again.
"This is Ahmed Ghailani. This is Al Qaeda. This is a terrorist. This is a killer," Assistant U.S. Attorney Harry Chernoff said in closing arguments.
The jury heard a former Al Qaeda member who has cooperated with the government describe how bin Laden took the group in a more radical direction with a 1998 fatwa, or religious edict, against Americans.
Bin Laden accused the United States of killing innocent women and children in the Middle East and decided "we should do the same," L'Houssaine Kherchtou said on the witness stand.
A prosecutor read aloud the fatwa, which called on Muslims to rise up and "kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they can find it."
Other witnesses described how Ghailani bought gas tanks used in the truck bomb with cash supplied by the terror group, how the FBI found a blasting cap stashed in his room at a cell hideout and how he lied to family members about his escape, telling them he was going to Yemen to start a new life.
The defense never contested that Ghailani knew some of the plotters. But it claimed he was in the dark about their sinister intentions.
"Call him a fall guy. Call him a pawn," lawyer Peter Quijano said in his closing argument. "But don't call him guilty."
Quijano argued the investigation in Africa was too chaotic to produce reliable evidence. He said local authorities and the FBI "trampled all over" unsecured crime scenes during searches in Tanzania
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/17/gitmo-detainee-ahmed-ghailani-guilty-terrorism-charges/
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Everyone, regardless who they are, should get a fair trial.
That is one of the foundations of our modern society.
Just like we shouldn't accept full body scanners and surveillance cameras in public, we should demand that everyone, even terrorists and public enemies, gets a fair trial.
Because in the end, it is really all about the personal freedom. The liberty of man.
If the government are allowed to kill off terrorists one day, what will they be allowed to do tomorrow?
Will they be allowed to sabotage political activism? Or even put political activists in prison, without trial?
IMO, it's always a lot at stake when you start talking about removing fundamental rights.
And I think it's pretty naive to believe that it's possible to do an exception for certain individuals.
Whether you like it or not, if you give the government the go-ahead on something like this - they will use it in other instances as well.
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What is wrong w a military tribunal?
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What is wrong w a military tribunal?
If it was me that was to be tried, then I wouldn't want to be tried in a military tribunal.
Because the judicial safety seems higher in a criminal trial.
A couple of examples:
Convictions in civilian courts must be unanimous, while the military tribunals would be able to convict by a two-thirds majority
Different rules of evidence apply, with lower standards for admission in military tribunals
Defendants are not guaranteed the right to appeal against convictions in military tribunals
Civilian trials must be open to the public, while military tribunals can be held in secret.
And since military tribunals aren't good enough for myself. They aren't good enough for anyone else I reason.
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Don't wage war against the usa and you won't have a problem.
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Don't wage war against the usa and you won't have a problem.
You don't fear giving the government a go ahead in killing terrorists without trials?
You think the government will stop at that?
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You don't fear giving the government a go ahead in killing terrorists without trials?
You think the government will stop at that?
::)
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You don't fear giving the government a go ahead in killing terrorists without trials?
You think the government will stop at that?
He's right. We should also wait for terrorists to kill people before arresting them, flying them to America, mirandizing them, giving them a lawyer, selecting a jury, having a discovery process, filing motions and then holding a trial. With any luck every single terrorist (after they have already killed innocent people) we arrest will have a trial that will last between 5 and 10 years. That's the best way to go about it.
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Good video.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/11/18/krauthammer_ghailani_verdict_huge_embarrassment_for_obama_admin.html