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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Mons Venus on November 21, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
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THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Saturday, November 21st 2009, 4:17 PM
Washinton - In a show of unity, Senate Democrats sealed a 60-vote majority needed to advance health care legislation Saturday ahead of an evening showdown with Republicans eager to doom the bill and inflict a punishing defeat on President Barack Obama.
Two final holdouts, Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, announced in speeches a few hours apart on the Senate floor they would vote to clear the way for what is expected to be a bruising, full-scale health care debate after Thanksgiving.
At a 10-year cost approaching $1 trillion, the measure is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it, crack down on insurance company practices that deny benefits, and curtail the growth of spending on medical care nationally.
"It is clear to me that doing nothing is not an option," said Landrieu, who noted the legislation includes $100 million to help her state pay the costs of health care for the poor. Lincoln, who faces a tough re-election next year, said the evening vote will "mark the beginning of consideration of this bill by the U.S. Senate, not the end."
Both stressed they were not committing in advance to vote for the bill that ultimately emerges from next month's debate.
Even so, their announcements marked a major victory for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and the White House in a year-end drive to enact the most sweeping changes to the nation's health care system in a half-century or more.
The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance, and large firms would incur large costs if they did not provide it to their workforce.
Congressional budget analysts put the legislation's cost at $979 billion over a decade and said it would reduce deficits over the same period while extending coverage to 94 percent of the eligible population.
;D
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Gee, like no one saw that coming. FYI, wasn't Mary Landreaux just baught off with $100bil of stimulis for her state? Think about it lib.
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Guys i'm going to be rich...
thanks 8)
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i dont have health insurance
i DONT want it for free...i have too much pride for that.
Guess some dont
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i dont have health insurance
i DONT want it for free...i have too much pride for that.
Guess some dont
your not really that stupid are you? :o
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your not really that stupid are you? :o
nah...i didn't vote obama
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i dont have health insurance
i DONT want it for free...i have too much pride for that.
Guess some dont
Idiot
No wonder you cannot spell.
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Democratic Majority Leader Senator Harry Reid's Remarks After Health Reform Bill Passes First Procedural Vote 60-39 - 11/21/09
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Idiot
No wonder you cannot spell.
i dont want rationed health care
nor do i wanna tax the rich....i'm kinda smart...and i know i'm gonna be a financial success...
only stupid poor people need robin hood ;)
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i dont want rationed health care
nor do i wanna tax the rich....i'm kinda smart...and i know i'm gonna be a financial success...
only stupid poor people need robin hood ;)
LOL
Just as I stated previously, you are an IDIOT. ;)
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Obamacare ain't quite finished yet
Washington (CNN) -- Health care reform backers won a key victory Saturday night as the Senate voted to move ahead with a floor debate on a sweeping $848 billion bill.
The 60-39 vote to prevent a Republican filibuster against the start of debate on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's legislation broke down along strict party lines. All 58 Senate Democrats -- along with independent Sens. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Bernie Sanders of Vermont -- supported bringing the measure to the floor.
Thirty-nine of the 40 Senate Republicans opposed the motion. Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, didn't vote.
"Tonight's historic vote brings us one step closer to ending insurance company abuses, reining in spiraling health care costs, providing stability and security to those with health insurance and extending quality health coverage to those who lack it," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said in a statement.
The polarized vote set the table for a holiday season now virtually certain to be marked by acrimonious deliberations on President Obama's top domestic priority.
Top Senate Democrats, who are trying to pass a bill before the end of the year, spent much of the day tarring their Republican colleagues as defenders of a broken status quo benefitting rich insurance companies at the expense of ordinary American families.
Republicans, in turn, slammed Democrats for pushing a bill that conservatives insist will force millions of Americans to drop insurance plans they like while boosting premiums, raising taxes and leading to government rationing of care.
Read the health care bill (PDF)
"Today we [decide] whether to even discuss one of the greatest issues of our generation," Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said shortly before the vote. "Whether this nation will finally guarantee its people the right to live free from fear of illness and death, which can be prevented by decent health care for all."
The Republicans "are frightening people," said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa. "Now is not the time to go wobbly in the knees. Now is the time to stand strong ... and move this country forward."
"This bill... is a massive monument to bureaucracy and spending," replied Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky. It "imposes punishing taxes on almost everyone. ... A vote in favor of proceeding to this bill is a vote in favor of adding to the tax burden of the American people in the midst of double digit unemployment."
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240 - did you watch the Schiff clip i posted on this bill?
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dude, i agreed with your position on this bill weeks ago
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i KNOW, i WAS ASKING IF YOU SAW THE CLIP.
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Ain't nuttin but a peanut
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Senate Democrats at odds over health care bill 11/22/2009 2:00:00 PM
Associated Press/AP Online
By ANNE FLAHERTY
WASHINGTON - Senate Democrats on Sunday sparred with each other over how to fix the nation's troubled health care system, the moderates threatening to scuttle legislation if their demands weren't met and the more liberal members warning their party leaders not to bend.
The dispute among Democrats foretells of a rowdy floor debate next month on legislation that would extend health care coverage to roughly 31 million Americans. Republicans have already made clear they aren't supporting the bill.
Final passage is in jeopardy, even after the chamber's historic 60-39 vote Saturday night to begin debate.
"I don't want a big-government, Washington-run operation that would undermine the ... private insurance that 200 million Americans now have," said Sen. Ben Nelson, a conservative Nebraska Democrat.
Nelson and three other moderates - Democratic Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Connecticut independent Joe Lieberman - agreed to open debate despite expressing reservations on the measure. Each of them has warned that they might not support the final bill.
One major sticking point is a provision that would allow Americans to buy a federal-run insurance plan if their state allows it. Moderates say they worry the so-called public option will become a huge and costly entitlement program and that other requirements in the bill could cripple businesses.
"I don't want to fix the problems in our health care system in a way that creates more of an economic crisis," said Lieberman.
The sway held by such a small group of senators has annoyed their more liberal colleagues, who could vote against a final bill if it becomes too watered down.
Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, said he didn't think rank-and-file Democrats would feel compelled to go that far. At the same time, Brown warned Democratic leaders not to make too many concessions.
"I don't want four Democratic senators dictating to the other 56 of us and to the rest of the country - when the public option has this much support - that (a public option is) not going to be in it," said Brown.
The Senate bill would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide subsidies to those who couldn't afford it. Large companies could incur costs if they did not provide coverage to their work force. The insurance industry would come under significant new regulation under the bill, which would first ease and then ban the practice of denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions.
Congressional budget analysts put the legislation's cost at $979 billion over a decade and say it would reduce deficits over the same period while extending coverage to 94 percent of the eligible population.
The House approved its version of the bill earlier this month on a near party-line vote of 220-215.
Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate, said the health care bill must be passed by the end of the year so that President Barack Obama and Congress can to shift their attention to the economy and improving employment rates.
Such a timeline also would enable Obama to claim victory on a major domestic priority when he delivers his State of the Union speech in January. With one-third of Senate seats up for election in 2010, politics will factor heavily into the outcome of the debate over health care.
Sen. Michael Bennet, a junior Democrat who will be seeking his first full term next year in Colorado, where many districts lean conservative, said he would support the health care overhaul even if doing so means losing his seat.
"The thing that our working families need more than anything else is to end these double-digit cost increases that they're having every single year with health insurance," Bennet said.
Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York said he believes there are enough votes to include a public insurance option in the bill as long as states were allowed to opt out. To do so, all 58 Democrats and independent Sens. Lieberman and Bernie Sanders of Vermont would have to support it.
Lieberman and Nelson have said they object to the public option. On Sunday, Nelson said he is open to negotiating the provision; he said he would prefer allowing states to opt into the program, instead of having to remove themselves.
Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell said the lingering reservations by moderate Democrats indicate that the party's leaders have gone too far. On Saturday, no Republican voted to begin debate on the bill, which they said would cripple industry and drive up costs for the average American.
"I believe there are a number of Democratic senators who do care what the American people think and are not interested in this sort of arrogant approach that everybody sort of shut up and sit down, get out of the way, we know what's best for you," said McConnell.
Brown, Bennet and McConnell appeared on CNN's "State of the Union." Lieberman appeared on NBC's "Meet the Press." Nelson appeared on ABC's "This Week."
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Associated Press writers Lolita C. Baldor and Philip Elliott contributed to this report.
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LOL this was simply a vote to talk about the bill and it barely passed ::)
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Yes, although look how many are acting though it's as good as "in the bag."
Still, I wish it wouldn't even have made it this far.
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60 votes isn't exactly "barely passed"... it's pretty huge the R's can't filibuster.
A lot of people said it would fail in the house. Then they said it would get killed on saturday adn filibustered into oblivion.
I think people underestimate Obama's abilities on this one. He was shrewd enough to destroy the GOp and Clinton machines in 08, and he just might wiggle this one through.
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60 votes isn't exactly "barely passed"... it's pretty huge the R's can't filibuster.
A lot of people said it would fail in the house. Then they said it would get killed on saturday adn filibustered into oblivion.
I think people underestimate Obama's abilities on this one. He was shrewd enough to destroy the GOp and Clinton machines in 08, and he just might wiggle this one through.
Won because he was shrewd?
I don't think so myself. I think it was more an anti-Bush type thing. Axelrod's good, don't get me wrong, and that's probably what helped him to edge out Hillary. But, the GOP was pretty much brought down by Bush, IMO. Also, the GOP doesn't seem to have a cohesive message. They need another Gringich move and put together a unified front. Hell, even a lot of Republicans were trying to distance themselves from Bush, lol.
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your not really that stupid are you? :o
that's priceless.... He really is not playing with a full deck.
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If this passes, it's going to be a curse for the entire country, but a blessing for the GOP.
From day one the GOP has been against the stimulus-- They have been right
The GOP has been against Cap and trade and the whole climate change hysteria propaganda machine pushed by the left- They have been right
Now, I can guarantee this healthcare bill will be the deathknell to an already anemic economy on life support. The American people do NOT support this bill and the GOP has been against it at every turn. -- The GOP will also be right on this issue.
However, being right may end up as a Pyrrhic victory. This nonsensical piece of legislative diarrhea will all but guarantee a massive backlash against the democrats and Obama in the upcoming elections and in 2012. However, if the country has collapsed, what difference will it make if the GOP sweeps both houses and puts a republican in the White House?
The GOP needs to stop this lame charade and kill the health bill for the good of the country.
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The GOP needs to stop this lame charade and kill the health bill for the good of the country.
How?
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like either of these major parties is going to ever do something for "the good of the country..." lololol... it's a farce.
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Neither party has in mind the best interest of the people anymore.
I blame a lot of that on the lack of term limits.
“Career politicians” who’ve spent most of their adult lives away from the private sector are too far separated from the average American to represent the average American.
But with this H-C-R business, many democrats are making decisions like they’re not going to seek re-election.
There are a lot of people who DO NOT WANT THIS.
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that's priceless.... He really is not playing with a full deck.
What is? The question? Or the fact that nicky.smith doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're", yet he's implying somebody else is stupid?
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60 votes isn't exactly "barely passed"... it's pretty huge the R's can't filibuster.
A lot of people said it would fail in the house. Then they said it would get killed on saturday adn filibustered into oblivion.
I think people underestimate Obama's abilities on this one. He was shrewd enough to destroy the GOp and Clinton machines in 08, and he just might wiggle this one through.
LOL dude obamas presidency was the result of bush back lash, smooth talking and great timing...hilary would be there if obama wasnt ANY D WOULD BE THERE IF SHE WASNT.
The R's have never been able to filibuster it so why hasnt it passed yet?
its the moderates and the luny lefts that are working out their differences, public option, abortion, funding etc...
you go left you piss the moderates off, you go right you piss the luny lefts off
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Won because he was shrewd?
I don't think so myself. I think it was more an anti-Bush type thing.
Exactly. He won because he was candidate not-Bush. The whole GOP took a beating for Bush's last two years in office.
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nah, I think Rudy could have beated an Edwards.
mitt or Rudy could have beaten hilary.
Any of them could have beaten Richardson.
Hell, mccain was up in every poll in mid-sept when Palin was outed as a dummy and the economy tanked (despite mccain's assurances everything was hunkey dory) on the same week.
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nah, I think Rudy could have beated an Edwards.
mitt or Rudy could have beaten hilary.
Any of them could have beaten Richardson.
Hell, mccain was up in every poll in mid-sept when Palin was outed as a dummy and the economy tanked (despite mccain's assurances everything was hunkey dory) on the same week.
LOL you slam mccain like he was a horrible choice and butt plug for obama
obama said the exact same thing about the economy as mccain did what 3 months later?
didnt see you jump all over that, havent seen you mention that every other post when referencing obama, why is that?
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Mccain said the economy is on strong fundamentals shortly before the economy collapsed and needed emergency bailout.
Mccain admitted he was weak on economics then skips econ genius romney to pick eye candy palin.
Many repub stalwarts called mccain a terrible choice. A RINO, etc. But he was the furthest R not named Ron paul, from Dubya.
And yes, I do think the election was open to be won by either party.
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Mccain said the economy is on strong fundamentals shortly before the economy collapsed and needed emergency bailout.
Mccain admitted he was weak on economics then skips econ genius romney to pick eye candy palin.
Many repub stalwarts called mccain a terrible choice. A RINO, etc. But he was the furthest R not named Ron paul, from Dubya.
And yes, I do think the election was open to be won by either party.
240 - have been over this so many times., Obama was avble to put bush w mccain and people were sick of bush. Its that simple. If McCain did not take palin, he would have lost even worse.
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Then explain why all the polls showed Mccain ahead in September.
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Then explain why all the polls showed Mccain ahead in September.
UUGGGH, remember sometyhing about mccain suspending his campaign, TARP, and something about the financial markets collapsing?
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Mccain said the economy is on strong fundamentals shortly before the economy collapsed and needed emergency bailout.
Mccain admitted he was weak on economics then skips econ genius romney to pick eye candy palin.
Many repub stalwarts called mccain a terrible choice. A RINO, etc. But he was the furthest R not named Ron paul, from Dubya.
And yes, I do think the election was open to be won by either party.
LOL yes and obama and his head economic advisor said the same thing 3 months later...didnt hear you jump on that, dont hear you bring it up whenever obama talks about his views on the economy now...wonder why that is? ;)
actually I dont wonder, I wonder why you just dont admit it...
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LOL yes and obama and his head economic advisor said the same thing 3 months later...didnt hear you jump on that, dont hear you bring it up whenever obama talks about his views on the economy now...wonder why that is? ;)
actually I dont wonder, I wonder why you just dont admit it...
This is the media bias we were arguing with Straw Man about in the other thread. Because it seems to me that McCain's statements were amplified, whereas Obama's were minimized.
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60 votes isn't exactly "barely passed"... it's pretty huge the R's can't filibuster.
A lot of people said it would fail in the house. Then they said it would get killed on saturday adn filibustered into oblivion.
I think people underestimate Obama's abilities on this one. He was shrewd enough to destroy the GOp and Clinton machines in 08, and he just might wiggle this one through.
The man has no abilities , he is a puppet. What they have is the majority. Not abilities............... .please.
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The man has no abilities , he is a puppet. What they have is the majority. Not abilities............... .please.
Just look at his trip to Asia, even liberals are admitting it was a complete failure and a joke.
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LOL you slam mccain like he was a horrible choice and butt plug for obama
obama said the exact same thing about the economy as mccain did what 3 months later?
didnt see you jump all over that, havent seen you mention that every other post when referencing obama, why is that?
wrong!!!!
The republicans were acting like the economy was growing at 6% GDP, up until the last week of October..
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Then explain why all the polls showed Mccain ahead in September.
That was AFTER he picked Palin. McCain had trailed Obama from the time they secure their respective parties' nomination, until then.
It was the economic crash (and McCain's erratic response to it) that sank his campaign.
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wrong!!!!
The republicans were acting like the economy was growing at 6% GDP, up until the last week of October..
And what is Obama doing by trying to spend trillions on health care, crap & tax, amnesty for illegals, etc?
Did you read my article about the Debt Wave facing the U.S. Gov?
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That was AFTER he picked Palin. McCain had trailed Obama from the time they secure their respective parties' nomination, until then.
It was the economic crash (and McCain's erratic response to it) that sank his campaign.
Without Palin, McCain would have lost by at least ten points and even he said she was a major boost to the ticket.
These dolts who blame Palin conveniently ignore how bad McCain was in suspending his campaign, "fundamentals of the economy" speech, TARP, amnesty for illegals, etc hurt him.
Couple that with the fact that his campaign itself was a disorganized mess. I volunteered ans know first hand how poorly run that mess was.
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Won because he was shrewd?
I don't think so myself. I think it was more an anti-Bush type thing. Axelrod's good, don't get me wrong, and that's probably what helped him to edge out Hillary. But, the GOP was pretty much brought down by Bush, IMO. Also, the GOP doesn't seem to have a cohesive message. They need another Gringich move and put together a unified front. Hell, even a lot of Republicans were trying to distance themselves from Bush, lol.
The Democrats didn't have a cohesive message, when they won in 2006. So, this phenomenon is hardly a new thing. After the GOP won seats in the House and Senate, coupled with Bush's 2004 re-election, the Dems looked all but dead.
But, as has been shown, if the incumbent party screws up badly enough, they will get tossed when mid-terms arrive.
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The Democrats didn't have a cohesive message, when they won in 2006. So, this phenomenon is hardly a new thing. After the GOP won seats in the House and Senate, coupled with Bush's 2004 re-election, the Dems looked all but dead.
But, as has been shown, if the incumbent party screws up badly enough, they will get tossed when mid-terms arrive.
In my own state Rudy is going to unseat Gilibrand. Reid looks DOA as well in Nevada.
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Without Palin, McCain would have lost by at least ten points and even he said she was a major boost to the ticket.
These dolts who blame Palin conveniently ignore how bad McCain was in suspending his campaign, "fundamentals of the economy" speech, TARP, amnesty for illegals, etc hurt him.
Couple that with the fact that his campaign itself was a disorganized mess. I volunteered ans know first hand how poorly run that mess was.
In just under a year, unemployment has gone from 7 percent to 10 percent. If it hits 12-13 percent by next November, the Democrats will be beat down and beat up in 2010, with Obama's head inching dangerously closer to the chopping block for 2012.
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60 votes isn't exactly "barely passed"... it's pretty huge the R's can't filibuster.
A lot of people said it would fail in the house. Then they said it would get killed on saturday adn filibustered into oblivion.
I think people underestimate Obama's abilities on this one. He was shrewd enough to destroy the GOp and Clinton machines in 08, and he just might wiggle this one through.
Obama was shrewd?The dunce didnt do a dam thing here.It was Pelosi twisting arms and Reid giving away the country that did it.Obama has a approval rating under 50% he is a nothing.A figure head who can read a speech.
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wrong!!!!
The republicans were acting like the economy was growing at 6% GDP, up until the last week of October..
and obama thought everything was hunky dory 3 months later, so they where both wrong
only you and 240 only see it one way
did you know nicky that obama and his head of economic advisors agreed with mccain 3 months after he made his statement?
dont worry i dont expect you to respond like most libs when presented with a legit question they will deflect or ignore...just scroll back over this thread and see how many times ive asked why? to 240 and how many times he has responded ;)
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If this passes, it's going to be a curse for the entire country, but a blessing for the GOP.
From day one the GOP has been against the stimulus-- They have been right
The GOP has been against Cap and trade and the whole climate change hysteria propaganda machine pushed by the left- They have been right
Now, I can guarantee this healthcare bill will be the deathknell to an already anemic economy on life support. The American people do NOT support this bill and the GOP has been against it at every turn. -- The GOP will also be right on this issue.
However, being right may end up as a Pyrrhic victory. This nonsensical piece of legislative diarrhea will all but guarantee a massive backlash against the democrats and Obama in the upcoming elections and in 2012. However, if the country has collapsed, what difference will it make if the GOP sweeps both houses and puts a republican in the White House?
The GOP needs to stop this lame charade and kill the health bill for the good of the country.
QFT
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QFT
Any reason you dredged up this old thread, PEA BRAIN? ???
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Any reason you dredged up this old thread, PEA BRAIN? ???
How about a reminder to you why come Nov. 2 why obama's presidency comes to an end, reid and pelosi are gone, and the GOP takes back the house and maybe the senate?
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How about a reminder to you why come Nov. 2 why obama's presidency comes to an end, reid and pelosi are gone, and the GOP takes back the house and maybe the senate?
Just imagine if the bill was included with the public option?
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Just imagine if the bill was included with the public option?
It may not have a public option, but how long before Obamacare puts the insurance companies out of business? Then guess what happens
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It may not have a public option, but how long before Obamacare puts the insurance companies out of business? Then guess what happens
Yeah those poor insurance companies ::) ::) ::)
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Yeah those poor insurance companies ::) ::) ::)
And when they get put out of business due to MansonCare, what do you plan on doing? Calling obama?
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Yeah those poor insurance companies ::) ::) ::)
Brilliant response really, I wonder how many people are going to lose their jobs? Oh that doesn't matter because the health insurance companies, which the federal government helped create and make into what they are today, are evil. ::) ::)
And just in case you don't know what I'm talking about look up
The Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973