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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: loco on December 16, 2009, 01:11:00 PM
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3 police officers among 5 people indicted in race-related beating
December 15, 2009
Washington (CNN) -- Five people, including three police officers, have been indicted on charges related to the beating death of a Latino man in rural Pennsylvania in July 2008, the Justice Department said Tuesday.
Two indictments charge the five with federal hate crimes, obstruction of justice and conspiracy in what authorities are calling a racially motivated attack.
The indictments come almost six months after a Schuylkill County jury acquitted two teens of aggravated assault and one of murder in the death of Luis Ramirez.
The undocumented Mexican immigrant was beaten into a coma during a street brawl involving the teens and their friends on a residential street in Shenandoah. The incident divided the small, rural mining town along racial lines and became a flash point for racial tensions nationwide.
After the verdict, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell denounced the attack as racially motivated and called on the Justice Department to intervene.
A federal grand jury handed up the indictments last week, and they were unsealed Tuesday. The two young men, Derrick Donchak and Brandon Piekarsky, are accused of a hate crime for beating Ramirez while shouting racial epithets at him, according to the department.
If convicted of hate crime charges, Donchak and Piekarsky face a maximum penalty of life in prison. Donchak also faces a maximum of 20 years in prison if convicted of obstruction, and an additional five years on the charge of conspiring to obstruct justice.
Donchak also faces three counts of conspiring to obstruct justice and related offences. He is accused of attempting to orchestrate a coverup with members of the Shenandoah Police Department, the Justice Department said.
Shenandoah Police Chief Matthew Nestor and Lt. William Moyer and Officer Jason Hayes are charged with conspiring to obstruct justice in the Ramirez investigation. Moyer faces additional charges of witness and evidence tampering and making false statements to the FBI.
Nestor, Moyer and Hayes intentionally failed to "memorialize or record" statements made by Piekarsky about the incident, and "wrote false and misleading official reports" that "intentionally omitted information about the true nature of the assault and the investigation," the indictment said.
Nestor, Moyer and Hayes each face up to 20 years in prison on each of the obstruction charges if convicted, authorities said, along with an additional five years on the charges of conspiring to obstruct justice. Moyer faces an additional five years if convicted of making false statements to the FBI.
At the time of Ramirez's death, Hayes was dating Piekarsky's mother and Moyer's son was a high school freshman who played football with the youths involved in the attack, according to the indictment.
State prosecutors alleged that a group of teens including Donchak and Piekarsky, then 19 and 17, baited Ramirez into a confrontation after a night of drinking. Donchak and Piekarsky were walking home from a local festival when they encountered Ramirez and attacked him, "striking and kicking him while members of the group yelled racial slurs at him," the Justice Department said.
Prosecutors alleged Piekarsky delivered a fatal kick to Ramirez's head after Ramirez was knocked to the ground. A medical examiner ruled Ramirez died from blunt-force trauma to the head.
In June, an all-white Pennsylvania jury acquitted Piekarsky of third-degree murder and convicted him and Donchak of misdemeanor simple assault. The two were also found not guilty of aggravated assault, ethnic intimidation and hindering apprehension.
Donchak was convicted of corrupting minors for providing the alcohol to his friends before the fight. The two were sentenced to up to 23 months in the county jail.
After the verdict, Rendell sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder recommending the Justice Department pursue civil rights charges.
"The evidence suggests that Mr. Ramirez was targeted, beaten and killed because he was Mexican," Rendell wrote. "Such lawlessness and violence hurts not only the victim of the attack, but also our towns and communities that are torn apart by such bigotry and intolerance."
Gladys Limon, an attorney representing Crystal Dillman, Ramirez's fiancee, said Dillman welcomes the indictments, but remains fearful for her safety. Dillman has moved to an undisclosed location outside Shenandoah. Her truck was vandalized, and some people have yelled racial epithets at her on the streets, the attorney said.
"She is overwhelmed and is feeling a range of emotions," Limon said. "His family has suffered a great deal in the past year."
It has been particularly hard for Ramirez's family as the holidays approach, she said.
"The children miss their father. Crystal misses having him around for the holidays," Limon said. "Crystal says this is a gift from God, that this will bring justice to Luis."
A petition calling for federal charges in the case garnered 50,000 signatures, Limon said.
A hearing in the case was scheduled for Tuesday afternoon in federal court in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.
"The FBI wants to hear from anyone who may have information regarding alleged civil rights violations or public corruption in Schuylkill County," the Justice Department said Tuesday. Those with information can contact the Allentown, Pennsylvania, FBI office.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/15/hate.crime/index.html
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Crimes related to a persons immigration status are considered hate crimes? WTF? ???
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Crimes related to a persons immigration status are considered hate crimes? WTF? ???
No, but beating a man to death while shouting racial slurs at him is. ::)
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No, but beating a man to death while shouting racial slurs at him is. ::)
Guess I made up my mind before reading the whole story. :-[
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op, do you ever post something that isnt hispanic sympathizer esque?
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op, do you ever post something that isnt hispanic sympathizer esque?
The fact that it involved a hispanic is irrelevant. I'd say this is more "justice" sympathizer esque.
...or at least should be viewed in that light. I know what you mean tho, but just because loco may have a natural bias towards issues involving hispanics, ...doesn't make this story any less relevant in the grand scheme of things.
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I'm not going to lose sleep over "hate" crimes committed against criminals... :P
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I don't know what's worse. The guys committing a race based crime or the people supporting it. Is this what America has come to?
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op, do you ever post something that isnt hispanic sympathizer esque?
Are you talking to me?
If so, then yes I do post other stuff too.
But if you posted Hispanic sympathizer stuff for me than I wouldn't have to do it, would I? Somebody has to do it.
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I'm not going to lose sleep over "hate" crimes committed against criminals... :P
Will you lose sleep over cops covering up crimes?
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36,000 black on white rapes in this country,how many charged with hate crimes?ZERO white on black rapes.Where is your outrage?
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36,000 black on white rapes in this country,how many charged with hate crimes?ZERO white on black rapes.Where is your outrage?
I am always outraged by rape billy. ALWAYS. If it was posted here just like you have done i would show that.
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I don't know what's worse. The guys committing a race based crime or the people supporting it. Is this what America has come to?
I was asking myself that same question.
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36,000 black on white rapes in this country,how many charged with hate crimes?ZERO white on black rapes.Where is your outrage?
Post it. I'm outraged about any hate crime, and about police covering up any crime.
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I was asking myself that same question.
No society can ever be complicit in crimes based on gender, race, beliefs, sexual orientation etc.
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No society can ever be complicit in crimes based on gender, race, beliefs, sexual orientation etc.
How about crimes of violence regardless of age sex or religion or race?
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How about crimes of violence regardless of age sex or religion or race?
That goes without saying. But this thread is not about crimes against anyone. This is about a race motivated crime and a cover up attempt.
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I'm not going to lose sleep over "hate" crimes committed against criminals... :P
So don't. Lose sleep over the fact that cops who have sworn to uphold the law, are breaking the law, concealing evidence, falsifying reports, and covering up crimes. That's plenty enough reason for you to lose sleep.
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I don't know what's worse. The guys committing a race based crime or the people supporting it. Is this what America has come to?
You say that as if America has ever really ceased to be such a place. :-\
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Will you lose sleep over cops covering up crimes?
Exactly!!!
Maybe he'll lose sleep when cops are committing crimes against him, ...and no one else will give a poop?
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The idea that there is a category called "hate crimes" is the single dumbest thing going in this country.A crime is a crime.If a kid gets murdered because hes black or because someone kills him for his sneakers makes ZERO difference.Its political correctness gone hay wire as so much is in this country.
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The idea that there is a category called "hate crimes" is the single dumbest thing going in this country.A crime is a crime.If a kid gets murdered because hes black or because someone kills him for his sneakers makes ZERO difference.Its political correctness gone hay wire as so much is in this country.
It makes no difference to the victim, ...they're still dead, but it has ramifications for society, and it makes a difference to sentencing judges, as it should, because it speaks volumes about the perpetrator. Any sick fvck who would kill a man for no other reason than their nationality is NOT someone who belongs in society. I'd feel safer around someone who killed someone for adultery, or over a botched business deal, or to silence a potential blackmail threat, than I would someone who could kill someone over nationality. It's like those nutjobs in the Middle East who want to kill people for no other reason than the fact that they are American. How fvcked is that?
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It makes no difference to the victim, ...they're still dead, but it has ramifications for society, and it makes a difference to sentencing judges, as it should, because it speaks volumes about the perpetrator. Any sick fvck who would kill a man for no other reason than their nationality is NOT someone who belongs in society. I'd feel safer around someone who killed someone for adultery, or over a botched business deal, or to silence a potential blackmail threat, than I would someone who could kill someone over nationality. It's like those nutjobs in the Middle East who want to kill people for no other reason than the fact that they are American. How fvcked is that?
All the reasons you gave were good reasons to kill.I ask you,would you feel better if some black kid walked into a 711 and killed the black guy behind the counter for 10 dollars rather then if a white kid walked in and shot the guy because he hated blacks?Sorry,I see no difference and both killers should get the death penalty.
Now,once again I ask,36,000 black on white rapes here in this country,how many charged with a hate crime?You mean to tell me that the whites werent chosen for their race?Once again ZERO white on black rapes.
Hate crimes is just another left wing government plot to equal the playing field and punnish whites.Look up the FBI stats on who is charged with hate crimes and then look up who commits BY FAR the most violent crimes and then tell me why whites are the ones who overwhelmingly get charged with hate crimes.
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All the reasons you gave were good reasons to kill.
there's never any good reason to kill except in self defense.
I ask you,would you feel better if some black kid walked into a 711 and killed the black guy behind the counter for 10 dollars rather then if a white kid walked in and shot the guy because he hated blacks?Sorry,I see no difference and both killers should get the death penalty.
I'd feel better when we live in a world where people won't feel the need to destroy human lives over $10 or irrational hatred.
Now,once again I ask,36,000 black on white rapes here in this country,how many charged with a hate crime?You mean to tell me that the whites werent chosen for their race?Once again ZERO white on black rapes.
Oh puleaze!!! ::) Have you ever tried to rape a Black woman? ...She'd kick your ass!!
Hate crimes is just another left wing government plot to equal the playing field and punnish whites.Look up the FBI stats on who is charged with hate crimes and then look up who commits BY FAR the most violent crimes and then tell me why whites are the ones who overwhelmingly get charged with hate crimes.
So you admit whites have an advantageous in the power structure of society aka white skin priviledge.
Perhaps whites are overwhelmingly being charged under this legislation because.... they are the ones primarily committing crimes against others based solely on their race, nationality and/or orientation? Such hubris doesn't develop naturally, ...it takes centuries of priviledge to produce that kind of arrogance. It's time for it to end.
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anyone murder that happens, happens out of hate, but its only a issue if a minority gets murdered then its labels a hate crime, thats fucking stupid and is only done by the chicken shit panzies that walk around trying to please a group of people that are always looking to play the racecard and the victim role
Murder charges as a result of drunk driving are not born of hate. Murder charges resulting from a victim of a robbery having a heart attack does not steam from hate. It's labeled a hate crime when a minority is murdered while the perpetrator hurls racist epithets YES! It's not like the victim and assailant have had previous contact or an unresolved conflict. When you have a random unprovoked attack based on nothing more than an individual's race, nationality, orientation etc., then yes... it's a hate crime and a special breed of stupidity.
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white people just dont try to pursue it as hate crime , whites just see it as crime, blacks and minorities on the other hand will use the race card any chance they can, that is why you always hear about white people commiting so called hate crimes. if whites cried hate crime everytime a minority commited a crime against a white you would see an entire diff story
The difference is when the minority guy is kicking the shit out of you, he's yelling for you to give him your wallet.
It's made pretty clear that it's your money he wants. When the White guy is pounding the crap out of the minority, he's hurling racist and/or homophobic epithets. They make it clear they hate you simply for being YOU. Either that, or minorities are simply smarter than whites? :P
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CRIME IS CRIME , THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD FIT THE CRIME REGAURDLESS OF MOTIVE, just another way to hold minorities hand death is no diff if you are black white or whatever , is just a label to warm the assholes of people who are cry babies
I happen to believe motive makes a difference, ...or at least should make a difference.
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Will you lose sleep over cops covering up crimes?
Yes
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The idea that there is a category called "hate crimes" is the single dumbest thing going in this country.A crime is a crime.If a kid gets murdered because hes black or because someone kills him for his sneakers makes ZERO difference.Its political correctness gone hay wire as so much is in this country.
Yes
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The "hate crime" designation exists for a reason. This incident and the subsequent cover up are a good example.
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BodyProSite,
So how do you feel about the all white jury going easy on the white boys who murdered the Mexican?
How do you feel about the cops covering up the crime?
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there's never any good reason to kill except in self defense.
I'd feel better when we live in a world where people won't feel the need to destroy human lives over $10 or irrational hatred.
Oh puleaze!!! ::) Have you ever tried to rape a Black woman? ...She'd kick your ass!!
So you admit whites have an advantageous in the power structure of society aka white skin priviledge.
Perhaps whites are overwhelmingly being charged under this legislation because.... they are the ones primarily committing crimes against others based solely on their race, nationality and/or orientation? Such hubris doesn't develop naturally, ...it takes centuries of priviledge to produce that kind of arrogance. It's time for it to end.
There isnt a women on the face of this earth that could kick my ass.
Once again,36,000 black on white rapes ZERO white on black rapes ,check the violent offenders in this country they are predominantly black!!Barely a one charged with a hate crime.I guess they were just raping and killing whites out of love.
These laws are enacted by guilt ridden whites and ignorant foolish blacks like Maxine Waters.There is ZERO need for a hate crime law.Murder is murder,robbery is robbery,rape is rape,skin color,origin and sexual preferance shoul play zero role in dictating sentances.
By the way,OJ charged with a hate crime?I guess cutting the head off a white women is just an example of black love.
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and just to fix your story , i have seen white kids get beat up pretty bad by blacks just for cutting through the wrong part of the parking lot, cause that is where the blacks hang out, once again not labeled hate crime, i have lived in areas where if a white guy drove down certain streets at night he got shot at for nothing more than not being black and once again not labeled a hate crime.. WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD, the double standard is to apease a group of people that love to play the race card plain and simple
I don't see a double standard. You said it yourself in your own little scenario. they got beaten up for cutting through the wrong part of the parking lot. Everybody protects their territorial borders...including countries. You're probably one of those guys screaming about creating a huge border fence with Mexico, and saying border agents should be allowed to shoot mexicans trying to cross dead! C'mon... you can admit it.
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and jag you just showed how bright you are by comparing the type of murder this article was started over to someone dieing in a car wreck , if your gona make a comparison make it relevant, apples to apples not apples to oranges , oh well i wouldnt expect much from someone who really believes in the labeling of crime
When someone get behind the wheel while drunk, and ends up killing people as a result... are they not charged with murder? When someone dies during the commission of a crime, ...is the criminal not charged with murder... whether they laid a finger on them or not? Make up your mind... first you proclaim "CRIME IS CRIME, THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD FIT THE CRIME REGUARDLESS OF THE MOTIVES" ...yet here you refer to two or three different types of murder as apples & oranges. clearly there are varying degrees of murder. And yes, I do believe in the labeling of crime. only a simpleton could see things in such stark black & white terms without any shades of grey.
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There isnt a women on the face of this earth that could kick my ass.
Once again,36,000 black on white rapes ZERO white on black rapes ,check the violent offenders in this country they are predominantly black!!Barely a one charged with a hate crime.I guess they were just raping and killing whites out of love.
These laws are enacted by guilt ridden whites and ignorant foolish blacks like Maxine Waters.There is ZERO need for a hate crime law.Murder is murder,robbery is robbery,rape is rape,skin color,origin and sexual preferance shoul play zero role in dictating sentances.
By the way,OJ charged with a hate crime?I guess cutting the head off a white women is just an example of black love.
Justice Departments report a little further it says 67% of "ALL" rapes are commited by white men and 32% by balck men.
:-\
hey david duke...cut the 1902 race shit....its fucked up all around cha cha
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once again race shouldnt be a factor cause the bottom line is a human killed another human for no legit reason, so at that point who gives a shit about reason cause there is no excuse, he is a murderer, and should be punished as a murderer
That's my point exactly. If you're going to murder someone... at least have some reason to do it.
I can understand if somone murders someone to get their way, to keep someone silent, to exact revenge,
...but based on something completely out of their control for which they have no power to change or influence is just plain BS, and that kind of irrational stupidity needs to be as far OUTSIDE and AWAY from civilized society as possible
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Justice Departments report a little further it says 67% of "ALL" rapes are commited by white men and 32% by balck men.
:-\
hey david duke...cut the 1902 race shit....its fucked up all around cha cha
Oh C'mon Mal, Puleaze!!! ...do you honestly actually think Billy looks up anything...
other than his own anus, for the various stats and numbers he throws out there?
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Oh C'mon Mal, Puleaze!!! ...do you honestly actually think Billy looks up anything...
other than his own anus, for the various stats and numbers he throws out there?
Everyone on this board knows my view towards race. As a student of science, I beleive behavior patterns and color of skin have absolutley ZERO correlation. And Racists are (solamente my opinion) blocked minded, ignorant, morons, cave men/women who need a reason to justify their situation.
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i feel that its a crock of shit any jury going easy on anybody that takes a life, white black mex whatever , crime is crime and should be paid for no matter why that person commited that crime
Makes it hard to prosecute crimes when you've got cops falsifying reports and covering up crimes dontcha think?
That was afterall the whole point of this thread.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/keep_away.gif)
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yes they beat up white guys for going through a parking lot just cause he was white and they didnt like that , if you dont see the double standard in that you are just a fucking idiot what did he do ? he was white thats it how is that not a double standard to the argument you are trying to make? they even told him white boy this is not where your kind is whats wrong with you, what did he do besides be white , dam your stupid wow.
hilarious..
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if you commit a crime you should get a fair punishment for your crime regaurdless of why you chose to do it, or to whatever race, gender or anything, if someblack dude comes and busts me in the mouth i dont realy give a shit why nor do i care if it is seen as a hate crime i will either fight him back or get beat up and hope he gets assault charges, and nothing extra just cause i was white and he was black, he assaults me he should get punished for assault period
you=right.
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Like I said, this case is a perfect example of why the "hate crime" designation exists. This shit was swept under the table, covered up and the punishment the guys who beat this man to death were given amounts to a slap on the wrist. Now, because of it being a "hate crime", these guys can be properly punished.
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Why are you so wrapped up in racism? These guys were shouting racial slurs as they beat him to death. It's pretty cut and dry.
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Judges don't issues the verdicts or cover up the events. Get off your high horse.
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all this political correctness hate crime bull shit is to appease people that still feel they are owed something from the white man, but when the day is over if a white or black man murders another white or black man it is still murder news media wants to toss the words racial and hate crime around cause it creates a victim and raises ratings
First of all, it is the assault that creates the victim, whether you call it a hate crime or not.
Secondly, hate crime legislation applies to all races. Blacks, whites, asians, latinos, jews, gays, heteros etc, all can be charged with the commission of a hate crime. I guess if you're not part of a group that traditionally has experienced these types of injustices constantly foisted upon them, you're too blind to see it or even recognize what constitutes a hate crime.
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The hate crime designation exists to make sure people are punished even after events transpire like they did in this case. Thankfully it does exist so that these guys are punished. Your bullshit about going after the judges or whatever it is your railing about makes zero sense.
These guys beat this man to death because he was Mexican. Nothing else to it. It was a racially motivated crime and should be treated as such.
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Like I said, this case is a perfect example of why the "hate crime" designation exists. This shit was swept under the table, covered up and the punishment the guys who beat this man to death were given amounts to a slap on the wrist. Now, because of it being a "hate crime", these guys can be properly punished.
You do have an awesome point...And I can see where it come froms.
But I might be an idiot, because I think if the word race, black, white etc is taken out of incidents, it would gradually work racisim out of america
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the true racists are the ones that have to constantly bring race into every single fucking thing, as long as you have people like this that are the real racists racism will never end. I dont know one single black person who was ever a slave and i would be willing to bet nobody on here does, cause they would have to be 150 years old , so what is the prob? christ we have a black pres but many blacks still wanna play the race card, i am sure many of you will think i am racist cause of this but truth is i have a half black half white wife , and more black friends than white that feel the exact same way as i do about things like we have talked about in this thread
Dude, you could at least try to turn off your pavlovian mind-control programming and take your brain back?
Why do you bring in blacks or Obama. This whole case has nothing to do with Blacks or Obama, but here you are talking about Blacks and Obama. Freudian slip, ...Pavlovian response? This involved whites and a hispanic. Untwist your mind.
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You do have an awesome point...And I can see where it come froms.
But I might be an idiot, because I think if the word race, black, white etc is taken out of incidents, it would gradually work racisim out of america
I agree but unfortunately that would probably be impossible to accomplish.
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I agree but unfortunately that would probably be impossible to accomplish.
:(
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:(
Americans are obsessed with race.
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but quite frankly i am not surprised that you dont get the point of that statement you just see the word race and your beloved black pres
Dude, He's neither my beloved President, nor my beloved Black President.
I'm Canadian, ...I'm stuck with sweater boy. :-\
Interesting that you feel the need to point out the President's race tho.
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Americans are obsessed with race.
:'(
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:'(
Don't spin this into your anti-white/anti-American agenda. ::)
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Don't spin this into your anti-white/anti-American agenda. ::)
Not twisting anything, simply acknowledging the truth of your statement, and that makes me sad.
I don't have an anti-white / anti- American agenda. I'm simply Pro-Canadian. :D
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if a man of another ethnicity comes up and hits me my thought it dam what a fucking asshole, not dam what a black or mexican ass hole , but unfortunantly there are still some who havent evolved enough in the brain to say dam what and ass hole , they still feel the need to make another issue of it and label it, and as long as society keeps applying these labels to things the race issue will never go away
It's not about whether the guy is merely an asshole.
If he has attaccked you for nothing more than your race, or your sexual orientation, while hurling racial or sexually oriented epithets and derogatory statements... that makes it pretty clearly a hate crime.
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jag why wont you answer the question?
what question are you refering to?
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Oh C'mon Mal, Puleaze!!! ...do you honestly actually think Billy looks up anything...
other than his own anus, for the various stats and numbers he throws out there?
Hey you little fucking moron.Here are the stats you filthy skank.My wish is YOU were getting raped by a few blacks and we would see a very different view of things.If you would bother to do a google search you could have gotten the facts yourself ho.
The contrasts are even more stark in the case of interracial rape. Studies from the late 1950s showed that the vast majority of rapes were same-race offenses. Research in Philadelphia carried out in 1958 and 1960 indicated that of all rapes, only 3.2 percent were black-on-white assaults and 3.6 percent were white-on-black. Since that time, the proportion of black-on-white rapes has soared. In a 1974 study in Denver, 40 percent of all rapes were of whites by blacks, and not one case of white-on-black rape was found. In general, through the 1970s, black-on-white rape was at least ten times more common that white-on-black rape. [319]
Because interracial rape is now overwhelmingly black on white, it has become difficult to do research on it or to find relevant statistics. The FBI keeps very detailed national records on crime, but the way it presents rape data obscures the racial element rather than clarifies it. Dr. William Wilbanks, a criminologist at Florida International University, had to sift carefully through the data to find that in 1988 there were 9,406 cases of black-on-white rape and fewer than ten cases of white-on-black rape. [320] Another researcher concludes that in 1989, blacks were three or four times more likely to commit rape than whites, and that black men raped white women thirty times as often as white men raped black women. [321]
Interracial crime figures are even worse than they sound. Since there are more than six times as many whites as blacks in America, it means that any given black person is vastly more likely to commit a crime against a white than vice versa.
Notes
317. "What Should Be Done," US News & World Report (August 22, 1989), p. 54. See also Department of Justice, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1987 (Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1989), p.7.
318. Department of Justice, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1987.
319. Gary D. LaFree, "Male Power and Female Victimization: Toward a Theory of Interracial Rape," American Journal of Sociology, Vol. 88, No. 2 (September 1982).
320. William Wilbanks, "Frequency and Nature of Interracial Crimes," submitted for publication to the Justice Professional (November 7, 1990). Data derived from Department of Justice, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1987, p. 53.
321. Andrew Hacker, Two Nations, pp. 183, 185.
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Jared Taylor, Paved with Good Intentions: The Failure of Race Relations in Contemporary America (New York: Carrol & Graf, 1992), 92-93.
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Now,I know you cant read,but as you can see blacks rape whites,whites dont rape blacks and barely a one is charged with a hate crime.I wonder why.
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It's not about whether the guy is merely an asshole.
If he has attaccked you for nothing more than your race, or your sexual orientation, while hurling racial or sexually oriented epithets and derogatory statements... that makes it pretty clearly a hate crime.
i dont give a fuck what they are saying or why i am getting attaced, i just care that i am getting attacked, who gives a shit why, fact is that assault is assault for whatever motive any assault is equaly unacceptable in society, why does it have to have a label, are grown people realy that big of cry babies that it have to have a name for it ?
"Hate Crimes" laws is another perversion of reality by liberal morons. it shouldnt matter what the race, motive, or religion is. A violent crime should be treated as such and thats it.
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the only question on this page i have asked 2 times about your kids being attacked. i guess since motive is so important you would ask him why he is beating your kids before you decided how to handle getting him off of your kids. you know since you say motive is so important
I found the question so incredibly ridiculous I would never have guessed this was the one you were referring to.
The premise is stupid. Who the heck figures out the motive for an attack before stopping the attack? Obviously the time for figuring out the motivation for the attack is AFTERWARDS. But what does any of that have to do with corruption? That IS afterall what this thread is about... police corruption. This is not about debating hate crime legislation or the definition of hate crimes, or even if such designations should exist. the fact is... they do. And the police in this incidence, not only covered up and concealed evidence, ...but falsified reports in order to do so. You ought to concern yourself with that... cops covering up evidence in order to give murders a slap on the wrist for a senseless violent murder.
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but according to you , motive is soooo important you would have to know it cause without knowing his motive you may or may not act proper while pulling this person off of your kids , are you going to keep contradicting yourself more???
No... only according to your perversely intentional twisting of my statement.
You're either intentionally twisting my words, or too stupid to understand my words,
...either way, I won't be wasting any more time discussing this further. i've made my opinion on the matter clear.
Obviously, we do not agree on the subject of hate crime legislation, ...but we don't have to... the law is clear.
How do you feel about police corruption? How do you feel about cops concealing evidence, covering up and concealing the crimes of murderers and falsifying reports in order to do so? How do you feel about that?
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I mean does a cop pull you over because of your motive for speeding, no he pulls you over cause you were speeding , and bottom line is that speeding was agianst the law same with murder or any crime , crime is crime and should be punished period motive is irrelevant , if somebody is going to brutaly beat or murder someone of course they are hateful, but at that point who cares , cause bottom line is they murdered all this labeling is just a showing of guilt due to the prosperity of white men since the start of america and is a way to say hey we are sorry , and here is how we are showing it
Good post!
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i feel that any wrong doing buy any police or any law official is wrong but i think its rediculous to label these things , if you do something wrong you pay for it regaurdless of motive. I mean does a cop pull you over because of your motive for speeding, no he pulls you over cause you were speeding , and bottom line is that speeding was agianst the law same with murder or any crime , crime is crime and should be punished period motive is irrelevant , if somebody is going to brutaly beat or murder someone of course they are hateful, but at that point who cares , cause bottom line is they murdered all this labeling is just a showing of guilt due to the prosperity of white men since the start of america and is a way to say hey we are sorry , and here is how we are showing it
If that makes you feel less victimized by hate crime legislation... more power to you.
But if you ever... God forbid, find yourself the random victim of a group of minorities who targetted you for no other reason other than the fact that you are white, ...know that hate crime legislation will be there to ensure they are properly punished for their senseless unprovoked violence against you.
And when a cop pulls you over for speeding... your motives for doing so play a part in the kind of ticket if any you get. If you had a woman who was 9 months pregnant and in the process of giving birth, ...chances are you might only NOT get a ticket for speeding, ...but a police escort with sirens blaring all the way to the hospital.
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Americans are not obsessed with race.Race is forced down our throat everyday.Any criticism of Obama and your labeled a racist.Its gotten so bad that a little jack ass like Jesse Jackson said if you didn't support the health care bill you couldn't call yourself a black man.
Many of us comment on race because the double standard in this country is a joke.Don Imus gets fired for a racial slur but Jaime Foxx makes a worse slur and it doesn't even raise eyebrows.Its the left that is obsessed with race and the right comments on their obsession.
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If that makes you feel less victimized by hate crime legislation... more power to you.
But if you ever... God forbid, find yourself the random victim of a group of minorities who targetted you for no other reason other than the fact that you are white, ...know that hate crime legislation will be there to ensure they are properly punished for their senseless unprovoked violence against you.
And when a cop pulls you over for speeding... your motives for doing so play a part in the kind of ticket if any you get. If you had a woman who was 9 months pregnant and in the process of giving birth, ...chances are you might only NOT get a ticket for speeding, ...but a police escort with sirens blaring all the way to the hospital.
Blacks will NOT be charged with hate crimes THATS THE PROBLEM!!!!!!The law is solely intended to punish whites.Blacks commit the vast majority of violent offenses here yet whites are charged with hate crimes far more often.Black on white crime dwarfs white on black crime yet its whites who are charged with hate crimes.Hate crime laws are stupid,unnecessary and redundant.
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Americans are not obsessed with race.Race is forced down our throat everyday.Any criticism of Obama and your labeled a racist.Its gotten so bad that a little jack ass like Jesse Jackson said if you didn't support the health care bill you couldn't call yourself a black man.
Many of us comment on race because the double standard in this country is a joke.Don Imus gets fired for a racial slur but Jaime Foxx makes a worse slur and it doesn't even raise eyebrows.Its the left that is obsessed with race and the right comments on their obsession.
absolutley no.. who do you think youre fooling..people like you kee[ race going on.. looking out for the best interest of your people. Doing Interviews with skinhead news papers..Race shit been going on since before Obama. And the sad thing is...to people who it matters to, To people who controll the whole shit, they can give a shit less about black and white. Its about green. But narrow minded people look at every single situation through the race shades. Really a shitty way to live and i have absolutley zero respect for racists
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Americans are not obsessed with race.Race is forced down our throat everyday.Any criticism of Obama and your labeled a racist.Its gotten so bad that a little jack ass like Jesse Jackson said if you didn't support the health care bill you couldn't call yourself a black man.
Many of us comment on race because the double standard in this country is a joke.Don Imus gets fired for a racial slur but Jaime Foxx makes a worse slur and it doesn't even raise eyebrows.Its the left that is obsessed with race and the right comments on their obsession.
Only White Men can be Racist/Sexist you idiots!
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dude..you are high...or stupid..Everyone on this board know how i feel about racism..When billy talks he talks in those terms black, white my people your people...I have said this many many many times fucktard. I dont like any racists...and i dont see things in terms of race. Americans is how i view americans. Now you took that how you wanted to take that cha cha.
So dont even try to bring that shit to me. Im so mixed in race that i just dont see it...this is a picture of my grand mother. Who is considered a white puerto rican. Dude...Race means nothing to me. And as long as bitchess bring it up, It will be an issue
Thats just real talk
You should delete that picture before some of these ass holes say or do something fucked up with it... :P
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One time I was talking with a black friend, and he said "Black people are so fucked up"...
I didn't know what an appropriate reply would be. :o
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i am not saying you are racist FUCKTARD i am talking about the attitude of a majority of the black people i see or meet, in my post i never once called you racist , i pointed out double standards fucking pay attention when your beedy lil eyes scan over the words next time
You implied that what i said could be taken as racist....when i was describing a well known racist...you my friend are an idiot
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You implied that what i said could be taken as racist....when i was describing a well known racist...you my friend are an idiot
Mal is defniately not racist. He voted for Obama and can be classified as foolish for that reason, but racist is definately not something Mal is. ;D
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Not twisting anything, simply acknowledging the truth of your statement, and that makes me sad.
I don't have an anti-white / anti- American agenda. I'm simply Pro-Canadian. :D
I should have edited it to "a number of Americans". And get off your Canadian high horse. Stormfront has a Canadian sub-forum. Keep trying to paint this picture of Canada as this superior place. It's not. Far from it.
You nor most of the other retards on here have made anything close to a compelling argument with regards to the topic of this thread. Mal seems to be the only one presenting a logical argument.
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Mal is defniately not racist. He voted for Obama and can be classified as foolish for that reason, but racist is definately not something Mal is. ;D
like i said.. if ron paul was on there...boom...but i couldnt do mclame and soccer mom
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like i said.. if ron paul was on there...boom...but i couldnt do mclame and soccer mom
I agree, as time goes on RP looks that much better.
As far as the topic goes, I dont agree with "hate crimes" laws since people are becoming more mixed and it leaves too much authority to the govt to determine motivation when the reality is that if a violent crime is committed against someone, their race should play no part whatseover, either for the criminal or the victim.
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absolutley no.. who do you think youre fooling..people like you kee[ race going on.. looking out for the best interest of your people. Doing Interviews with skinhead news papers..Race shit been going on since before Obama. And the sad thing is...to people who it matters to, To people who controll the whole shit, they can give a shit less about black and white. Its about green. But narrow minded people look at every single situation through the race shades. Really a shitty way to live and i have absolutley zero respect for racists
Did I say one racist thing in that interview?Nope,not one.
Now,I ask you this.Who allowed Rev. Lowery to speak at his inaugertatiuon and insult whites?Who said the white cop acted stupidly and backed the black racist?Who had Van Jones in his administration?Who has had Jesse Jackson,a man who has admitted to spitting into white peoples food ,to the white house 6 times?Who dropped the charges against the black panthers when they threatned whites at polling booths?Who sat in a racist church for twenty years?
Now,I gave an interview to Resistance magazine.Please tell me how that compares to sitting in the pew and listening to Rev. Wright for twenty years and listening to his sermons as he went to bed because it soothed him and writing a book based on a Wright sermon.The very fact that you accuse me of racism[not that I care much]but excuse the overwhelming evidence of Obamas racism proves my point about the double standard in this country.
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Did I say one racist thing in that interview?Nope,not one.
Now,I ask you this.Who allowed Rev. Lowery to speak at his inaugertatiuon and insult whites?Who said the white cop acted stupidly and backed the black racist?Who had Van Jones in his administration?Who has had Jesse Jackson,a man who has admitted to spitting into white peoples food ,to the white house 6 times?Who dropped the charges against the black panthers when they threatned whites at polling booths?Who sat in a racist church for twenty years?
Now,I gave an interview to Resistance magazine.Please tell me how that compares to sitting in the pew and listening to Rev. Wright for twenty years and listening to his sermons as he went to bed because it soothed him and writing a book based on a Wright sermon.The very fact that you accuse me of racism[not that I care much]but excuse the overwhelming evidence of Obamas racism proves my point about the double standard in this country.
Maybe not a racist, but Obama is a real jerk.
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I should have edited it to "a number of Americans". And get off your Canadian high horse. Stormfront has a Canadian sub-forum. Keep trying to paint this picture of Canada as this superior place. It's not. Far from it.
You nor most of the other retards on here have made anything close to a compelling argument with regards to the topic of this thread. Mal seems to be the only one presenting a logical argument.
I some areas Jag actually is smart, in many (MANY) others though she is a total fool. :-\
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No- She's a total fucking moron on every single area that is known to the human race.
Hate Crime legislation is one of the most serious infringements on free speech that exist in this country today.
Think about it like this-- ( and this actually happened). If you were hanging out in your own neighborhood one day and saw someone breaking into one of your family members cars and you tried to apprehend them and a physical altercation ensued, would you be justified in using force to restrain them until the police arrived?
I think many people would say yes, while most others would agree that even if they were not willing to use physical force- they would hardly shed a tear for the perpetrator as long as he was not seriously injured in the process.
Now, lets say you called the perpetrator a spic, or a black or a wop or a kike or whatever. Does physically restraining that person-- hitting them if necessary, now escalate the incident into a hate crime?
In New York City it does. Randomly assaulting someone for absolutely no reason-- Or for any reason is assault. If you call the person names-- it's now a hate crime. How fucking retarded is that? Unless you explicitly go after someone because of their race/ sexual orientation, the idea of prosecuting someone for a hate crime because they called someone a mean name is absolutely idiotic.
I wonder if the whole cast of west side story feels that it is acting out hate crimes whenever it engages in any fight scenes.
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No- She's a total fucking moron on every single area that is known to the human race.
Hate Crime legislation is one of the most serious infringements on free speech that exist in this country today.
Think about it like this-- ( and this actually happened). If you were hanging out in your own neighborhood one day and saw someone breaking into one of your family members cars and you tried to apprehend them and a physical altercation ensued, would you be justified in using force to restrain them until the police arrived?
I think many people would say yes, while most others would agree that even if they were not willing to use physical force- they would hardly shed a tear for the perpetrator as long as he was not seriously injured in the process.
Now, lets say you called the perpetrator a spic, or a guy or a wop or a kike or whatever. Does physically restraining that person-- hitting them if necessary, now escalate the incident into a hate crime?
In New York City it does. Randomly assaulting someone for absolutely no reason-- Or for any reason is assault. If you call the person names-- it's now a hate crime. How fucking retarded is that? Unless you explicitly go after someone because of their race/ sexual orientation, the idea of prosecuting someone for a hate crime because they called someone a mean name is absolutely idiotic.
I wonder if the whole cast of west side story feels that it is acting out hate crimes whenever it engages in any fight scenes.
I agree, this hate crime bull shit is scary stuff...
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jag you miss the whole entire point of that completly ! oh and you must be talking about the type of legislature that let oj simpson off the hook due to inadmissable evidence hmmmm didnt hear that case labeled a hate crime when there were two dead white people and a black man in court. that piece of legislation you speak of doesnt protect white people cause we arent the minority. to protect the whites wouldnt be politicaly correct
OJ wasn't acquitted due to inadmissible evidence, he was acquitted due to police misconduct and failure to follow established procedures which brought in the spectre of reasonable doubt. Furthermore, those murder occurred on June 13th 1994, well over 15 yrs ago prior to hate crime legislation. Had he committed those murders, it still wouldn't have constituted a hate crime. Just because victim and assailant are of different races, doesn't automatically make it a hate crime.
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One time I was talking with a black friend, and he said "Black people are so fucked up"...
I didn't know what an appropriate reply would be. :o
Tell him "I'm glad YOU said that, and not me, ...cause I'd get my ass kicked for saying it." ;)
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I should have edited it to "a number of Americans". And get off your Canadian high horse. Stormfront has a Canadian sub-forum. Keep trying to paint this picture of Canada as this superior place. It's not. Far from it.
You nor most of the other retards on here have made anything close to a compelling argument with regards to the topic of this thread. Mal seems to be the only one presenting a logical argument.
Perhaps it would have been a more accurate assessment to say "a number of Americans".
Yes, Canada has it's share of idiots too, ...however relatively speaking, I do believe we are a superior society.
As for making compelling arguments, that is not my intent, my intent is to simply state my opinion.
I'm not looking to change anyone's opinion on the matter, simply stating my own. Hate crime legislation exists, ..if and when it changes, or is in danger of changing, ...that would be the time for influencing opinion. Until then, those who dislike it...can lump it. It is what it is, and it serves a purpose which I am not opposed to.
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I agree, as time goes on RP looks that much better.
As far as the topic goes, I dont agree with "hate crimes" laws since people are becoming more mixed and it leaves too much authority to the govt to determine motivation when the reality is that if a violent crime is committed against someone, their race should play no part whatseover, either for the criminal or the victim.
That's all very well and good ...provided of course that race played no part whatsoever in the crime.
What do you do when race is the sole reason for the crime to begin with? That's where the hate crime legislation comes into effect.
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In New York City it does. Randomly assaulting someone for absolutely no reason-- Or for any reason is assault. If you call the person names-- it's now a hate crime. How fucking retarded is that?
That's totally retarded... as is the scenario you laid out. That doesn't constitute or meet the definition of a hate crime.
Unless you explicitly go after someone because of their race/ sexual orientation, the idea of prosecuting someone for a hate crime because they called someone a mean name is absolutely idiotic.
There you have just laid out the scenario for which hate crime legislation was intended.
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I agree, this hate crime bull shit is scary stuff...
Oh ya... real scary shit alright. Just imagine... you can no longer beat the crap out of Mexicans simply for being Mexican. You can no longer beat the crap out of gays simply for being gay, ...and God forbid, you can no longer vandalize Jewish homes, painting huge swastikas on them simply because they are Jews. What is America coming to when domestic terrorists cannot terrorize random innocent members of the public based on nothing more than their race, religion, or sexual orientation anymore? ::)
And you know you're really going to hell in a handbasket when the Feds start prospecuting cops for covering up cases of domestic terrorism? Makes you kind of nostalgic for the good ole days don't it? ::) ::) ::) ::)