Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Mr Nobody on December 20, 2009, 02:27:40 PM
-
Arthur Jones trained Arnold, Sergio, Viator, The Mentzers and others. Could it be that Nautilus and HIT was just a marketing ploy? Discuss.
-
Genius.
-
Arthur Jones trained Arnold, Sergio, Viator, The Mentzers and others. Could it be that Nautilus and HIT was just a marketing ploy? Discuss.
love his voice very soft spoken grandpa
-
Arthur Jones trained Arnold, Sergio, Viator, The Mentzers and others. Could it be that Nautilus and HIT was just a marketing ploy? Discuss.
I think the theory of less is more is spot on , most do way to much in the gym , it had been championed for years by Jones and the Mentzers but it took Dorian to fianaly get the message across.
Though Dorians way is not identicle to what mentzer says to do it is along the same line of thinking and is better imo.
Nautilus = sh1t though. HIT with mainly freeweights is best.
-
I think the theory of less is more is spot on , most do way to much in the gym , it had been championed for years by Jones and the Mentzers but it took Dorian to fianaly get the message across.
Though Dorians way is not identicle to what mentzer says to do it is along the same line of thinking and is better imo.
Nautilus = sh1t though. HIT with mainly freeweights is best.
X2 - My thoughts as well, I think Dorrian combined the Jones/Mentzer style HIT training obviously we we know his success. Alot of bodybuilders are gym rats that just like being in the gym 7 days a week so the HIT style isnt appealing to them mentally but I think most would do better with less time and higher intensity.
-
there isnt much time difference from 20 reps to failure or 5 reps to failure
-
Johnny Falcon - A Genius or an Idiot?
-
Johnny Falcon - A Genius or an Idiot?
Idiot.
-
Johnny Falcon - A Genius or an Idiot?
u sure showed me wesley timecocks
-
JF and Daddy Waddy the persona is all an act , the person behind these online personas is actualy a very bright and quick witted funny guy.The persona may be an idiot but the guy in control of it is not ;)
-
genius in marketing...
nautilus went to shit after he sold it and he was smart enough to start med-X and bankroll his son to start hammer strength.
-
arthur jones was definately a VERY smart guy but he sure as hell wasnt perfect. also alot of his ideas were later bastardized by HIT nutcases (yes includes mentzer, specially when he came back on the personal training scene after his difficult years) and made more extrem than he advocated.,
arthur jones had many good ideas, but he was wrong about several things too.
-
some of the nautilus machines where very good. some where not good.
also if your gonna discuss HIT, you must exactly explain what kind of HIT you are discussing. the most extreme low volume variants of HIT have been disproven by science and real world results.
as for dorian yates, he isa drug user and you can not use his training to draw any conclusions..other than that drugs work and he had good genetics.
-
I heard he was a racist...discuss
-
arthur jones was definately a VERY smart guy but he sure as hell wasnt perfect. also alot of his ideas were later bastardized by HIT nutcases (yes includes mentzer, specially when he came back on the personal training scene after his difficult years) and made more extrem than he advocated.,
arthur jones had many good ideas, but he was wrong about several things too.
X2 he had many good ideas some failed
-
JF and Daddy Waddy the persona is all an act , the person behind these online personas is actualy a very bright and quick witted funny guy.The persona may be an idiot but the guy in control of it is not ;)
So are you saying that he is not really the blonde 6'6 painter who wears piss stained underwear, and his jeans are always torn and messed up?
-
none of you bros would like me in real life you would all end up being jealous and telling me how worthless i am while i tell you somethings about yourself not in a condescending way but a more truthful master way, id ask for proof of your rippedness if you are so smart, many couldnot delever and result to deconstruction of friendly bonds as a sort of closure to your evening
-
I guess you showed us Johnny !! ;D
-
none of you bros would like me in real life you would all end up being jealous and telling me how worthless i am while i tell you somethings about yourself not in a condescending way but a more truthful master way, id ask for proof of your rippedness if you are so smart, many couldnot delever and result to deconstruction of friendly bonds as a sort of closure to your evening
Being ripped = being smart?
-
none of you bros would like me in real life you would all end up being jealous and telling me how worthless i am while i tell you somethings about yourself not in a condescending way but a more truthful master way, id ask for proof of your rippedness if you are so smart, many couldnot delever and result to deconstruction of friendly bonds as a sort of closure to your evening
I was being kind ???
:-\
-
Being ripped = being smart?
I was going to say, but I digress....
I think Arthur Jones was on the right track with his theories, but zigged when he should have zagged later on down the line.....
-
I was being kind ???
:-\
"He doesn't get stuff."
-
I think the theory of less is more is spot on , most do way to much in the gym , it had been championed for years by Jones and the Mentzers but it took Dorian to fianaly get the message across.
Though Dorians way is not identicle to what mentzer says to do it is along the same line of thinking and is better imo.
Nautilus = sh1t though. HIT with mainly freeweights is best.
I agree also. But then, what works for some doesn't for others. I think Jones (and Mentzer's) theories, though sometimes a bit too radical, work if you're willing to make a few adjustments according to how your body reacts. It works specially well for naturals. Most people I've seen bash Jones and Mentzer were juicers.
-
Arthur Jones trained Arnold, Sergio, Viator, The Mentzers and others. Could it be that Nautilus and HIT was just a marketing ploy? Discuss.
Pedo
-
the great sergio stated he was at his biggest and best whilest training under jones ( no homo )
-
the great sergio stated he was at his biggest and best whilest training under jones ( no homo )
I remember reading that somewhere, the training I think was so hard it wasnt fun so he left.
-
the great sergio stated he was at his biggest and best whilest training under jones ( no homo )
sergio as good as he was could have been even better if he had been smarter regarding his bodybuilding. i guess when he worked out with jones he benefited from the planned approach.
-
Sergio Oliva was already the best bodybuilder on the planet when Jones claimed he was responsible for his physique because Oliva trained for a couple of months in Florida. Many of the bodybuilders that Nautilus claim as Nautilus champions were already established bodybuilding stars.
I speculate Sergio's loyalty to Jones was because Jones was the only one that paid him without trying to rip him off. Anyone who has ever seen Sergio train prior and after Nautilus say he trained with volume and conventional equipment.
Having said that I think Arthur Jones has made one of the biggest contributions to bodybuilding. His Nautilus machines and Medx are still are cutting edge machines. Sure some were better than others but as a whole they are great machines. His thoughts on intensity still make sense today.
I think guys like Yates, Mike/Ray Mentzer, Bass, Dugdale, Labrada, Cardillo, Mastorakis and a few others have proven you can be an elite world class bodybuilder using high intensity methods. I just hate when they took an obvious volume trainer as proof of HIT.
-
Sergio Oliva was already the best bodybuilder on the planet when Jones claimed he was responsible for his physique because Oliva trained for a couple of months in Florida. Many of the bodybuilders that Nautilus claim as Nautilus champions were already established bodybuilding stars.
I speculate Sergio's loyalty to Jones was because Jones was the only one that paid him without trying to rip him off. Anyone who has ever seen Sergio train prior and after Nautilus say he trained with volume and conventional equipment.
Having said that I think Arthur Jones has made one of the biggest contributions to bodybuilding. His Nautilus machines and Medx are still are cutting edge machines. Sure some were better than others but as a whole they are great machines. His thoughts on intensity still make sense today.
I think guys like Yates, Mike/Ray Mentzer, Bass, Dugdale, Labrada, Cardillo, Mastorakis and a few others have proven you can be an elite world class bodybuilder using high intensity methods. I just hate when they took an obvious volume trainer as proof of HIT.
no, guys like yates, mike mentzer, dugdale etc..(with all due respect) have shown that hard work, genetics and drugs work.
you can NOT draw conclusions from drugged up athletes routines. also it is important to specify what is included under the HIT umbrella. some routines labeled HIT are good...some are not (the most extreme low volume routine)
the HIT vs volume debate is too polarized. neither too high or too low volume is good.
-
Basically, he said that in order to make the best possible progress from training you must train as hard as possible, but not train too much. But, he also does mention undertraining, not training enough. So, you must train as hard as possible, while making sure not to train too much, but also training enough. I guess it would be called "optimized training".
-
viator got into his best shape in 1982 doing 30 sets a bodypart...
-
Basically, he said that in order to make the best possible progress from training you must train as hard as possible, but not train too much. But, he also does mention undertraining, not training enough. So, you must train as hard as possible, while making sure not to train too much, but also training enough. I guess it would be called "optimized training".
A fine line it seems between under and over training pending genetics ?
-
"A fine line it seems between under and over training pending genetics ?"
In his early days he recommended "cycle training", for example: Leg presses to failure, imediately followed by Leg Ext to failure, and the imediately finished off by Barbell Squats. Now that's hard training 8) And he even recommended 2 cycles of this insanity :o And he recommended this to be practiced twice a week :'(
-
arnie and arthur jones photo
-
http://www.martygallagher.com/thoughts-on-the-nautilus-revolution/
« The readers take over - Volume training: sometimes less is better and sometimes more is better »
Thoughts on the Nautilus Revolution
-
He had some interesting principles for sure.
-
A grumpy old man. Sorry we're all so slow on the uptake, Arthur. ::)
-
X2 - My thoughts as well, I think Dorrian combined the Jones/Mentzer style HIT training obviously we we know his success. Alot of bodybuilders are gym rats that just like being in the gym 7 days a week so the HIT style isnt appealing to them mentally but I think most would do better with less time and higher intensity.
Yes, I agree. The best way to go is to take/learn Jones' principles and apply them to yourself with how it works best for you, that's what Dorian did.
Yes, Arthur Jones was a genius. Not only a marketing genius, but also a training genius. He's the first that advocated high intensity over long workouts/high volume. I really don't think Mentzer would have been able to figure it out by himself.
-
Genius, just use a 40 year old nautilus machine and see how well it still works today.
-
(http://www.drdarden.com/img/photos/dardensBookBullets/image010.jpg)
He was a bad ass genius... read the first chapters of the book: new hit training... it tells lots about his life and seminars...
-
Basically, he said that in order to make the best possible progress from training you must train as hard as possible, but not train too much. But, he also does mention undertraining, not training enough. So, you must train as hard as possible, while making sure not to train too much, but also training enough. I guess it would be called "optimized training".
Yes, I think what you wrote explains what HIT really is best, at least how Arthur Jones advocated it.
Some approaches are a bit too extreme, like what Mentzer preached in his last years.
-
Genius, just use a 40 year old nautilus machine and see how well it still works today.
YUP...Nautilus pullover machine still the best machine ever made. leg press was killer too
-
Johnny Falcon - A Genius or an Idiot?
he is one of the smartest guys on getbig if you understand the meaning behind his meaning
- Quote: WingedLion ::)
-
Yes, I think what you wrote explains what HIT really is best, at least how Arthur Jones advocated it.
Some approaches are a bit too extreme, like what Mentzer preached in his last years.
there are many kinds of HIT,,, most extreme version is not the best way to train,, this science and real life training has show to 100%.
too much volume not good,, too less volume not good,,,,
also failure is not must to grow,, many cases stopping one rep before failure is better overall..yes sometimes failure is ok but all the time no,, it is too much for most people....
-
YUP...Nautilus pullover machine still the best machine ever made. leg press was killer too
X2 on the pullover Groink, I trained on the Pullover with the lat pullown attached damn good back workout supersetting those
-
Johnny Falcon - A Genius or an Idiot?
Technically, an idiot has an IQ below 20, whilst Falcon's IQ is probably between 50 and 70, which puts him in the imbecile category. So: imbecile.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Technically, an idiot has an IQ below 20, whilst Falcon's IQ is probably between 50 and 70, which puts him in the imbecile category. So: imbecile.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
;D
-
;D
Falcon has flew the coop he is over on Matt C's site
-
there are many kinds of HIT,,, most extreme version is not the best way to train,, this science and real life training has show to 100%.
too much volume not good,, too less volume not good,,,,
also failure is not must to grow,, many cases stopping one rep before failure is better overall..yes sometimes failure is ok but all the time no,, it is too much for most people....
I agree, that is why I think training should always be individualized.
One thing I found out by experience though is that whenever I increased the volume of my training at the expense of intensity, I stopped making progress and just was spinning on my wheels. That is why I always train with the highest intensity I can and relatively low volume, which is what gives me the best results.
So, I think training the hardest is the most important thing, not holding back and going through the motions. Volume can be adjusted to the individual and according to frequency too.
-
I agree, that is why I think training should always be individualized.
One thing I found out by experience though is that whenever I increased the volume of my training at the expense of intensity, I stopped making progress and just was spinning on my wheels. That is why I always train with the highest intensity I can and relatively low volume, which is what gives me the best results.
So, I think training the hardest is the most important thing, not holding back and going through the motions. Volume can be adjusted to the individual and according to frequency too.
X2 Jones was on the money but some of his stuff was a bit off
-
This thread...
is over a month old.
Arthur Jones: "Rock out with your cock out".
-
Genetics plus drugs are what was responsible for Viator's physique and Oliva's physique not fucking HIT or nautilus machines. Oliva and Viator could have lifted tree stumps and bails of hay all day and would have been naturally huge and musuclar dudes. Throw drugs into the mix and you get what they were. Monsters and at a very early age. Viator was fucking more massive than anyone at 19 years old. Arnold started using drugs in his early teens. Oliva was fucking huge at 18 years old. That is GENETICS guys not training or some fancy machine. Why do you think Arthur Jones never used average trainees in his experiments? Because the results would have been average.......and average doesn't sell shit.
-
Genetics plus drugs are what was responsible for Viator's physique and Oliva's physique not fucking HIT or nautilus machines. Oliva and Viator could have lifted tree stumps and bails of hay all day and would have been naturally huge and musuclar dudes. Throw drugs into the mix and you get what they were. Monsters and at a very early age. Viator was fucking more massive than anyone at 19 years old. Arnold started using drugs in his early teens. Oliva was fucking huge at 18 years old. That is GENETICS guys not training or some fancy machine. Why do you think Arthur Jones never used average trainees in his experiments? Because the results would have been average.......and average doesn't sell shit.
Damn fine post right there. All pros have to have genetics first oe everyone would be a pro right?
-
Genetics plus drugs are what was responsible for Viator's physique and Oliva's physique not fucking HIT or nautilus machines. Oliva and Viator could have lifted tree stumps and bails of hay all day and would have been naturally huge and musuclar dudes. Throw drugs into the mix and you get what they were. Monsters and at a very early age. Viator was fucking more massive than anyone at 19 years old. Arnold started using drugs in his early teens. Oliva was fucking huge at 18 years old. That is GENETICS guys not training or some fancy machine. Why do you think Arthur Jones never used average trainees in his experiments? Because the results would have been average.......and average doesn't sell shit.
very very true,, this is why i always say you can not analyze training of drug users and use as truth for naturals...
for example yates did that and got huge,, mentzer did that and got huge, ronnie did this and got huge;; you can not draw conclusions from the training more than that drugs work (+genetics and hard work over long period of time),,,
natural should look at how biggest naturals train not pro bodybuilders...,
-
a marketing genius for his time..nowadays you re not going to sell crap with this kind of face...
and his machines didnt do shit to "improve" the cobayes bodies, steroids did.
-
2 OF THE GENIUSUES , YET RIVALS IN BUISNESS ...