Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: calfzilla on January 17, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
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then shouldn't we be having tons of 50-60 year old bbers dropping dead about now? I mean steroids came on the scene big in the 70s right? Doesn't make sense, where are all the bodies?
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then shouldn't we be having tons of 50-60 year old bbers dropping dead about now? I mean steroids came on the scene big in the 70s right? Doesn't make sense, where are all the bodies?
Yeah, but that was 40 years ago, the drug usage has increased dramatically a long with GH, Insulin, HGH, etc.. Interesting to see what will happen to the "current bber's 10/20 years from now.
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Yeah, but that was 40 years ago, the drug usage has increased dramatically a long with GH, Insulin, HGH, etc.. Interesting to see what will happen to the "current bber's 10/20 years from now.
So are you saying that only using steroids alone is pretty safe and won't lead to premature death?
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Yeah, but that was 40 years ago, the drug usage has increased dramatically a long with GH, Insulin, HGH, etc.. Interesting to see what will happen to the "current bber's 10/20 years from now.
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then shouldn't we be having tons of 50-60 year old bbers dropping dead about now? I mean steroids came on the scene big in the 70s right? Doesn't make sense, where are all the bodies?
Two things:
1. The doses used in the 1970s were tiny compared to the ones used today.
2. Several bodybuilders have suffered serious health complications due to anabolic drug use(Don Long, Tom Prince, Dennis Newman) and at least one has died(Andreas Munzer). The reason why many others haven't died is because medicine allows for organ transplant and has machines that substitute for organ function(dialyses machine). It also provides medications that allow to control the negative effects of steroids, like statins that lower bad cholesterol and counter the rise in LDL cholesterol caused by steroids. Both Dorian and Ronnie took daily doses of statins to stop the sauce from wrecking havoc with their cardiovascular systems. Without statins, you'd see far more pro bodybuilders dying from artherosclerosis, and without dialyses machines you'd see far more pros dying from nephrological problems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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So the avg gym rat who does a couple mild cycles a year should be pretty safe? It's just the heavy users with the health problems?
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So the avg gym rat who does a couple mild cycles a year should be pretty safe? It's just the heavy users with the health problems?
IMO, it's safe to yes. I think a lot of times guys don't know what the fuck they are doing and also not getting legit gear. Most likely, not just steroid users, but a lot of anything is not going to be good for your body in the long run.
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Steroids are the least of the body's worries.
Diueretics, Clen, Thyroid meds, painkillers and Insulin are at the top of the list. HGH and juicy-juice would be way at the bottom.
Too bad the Pros can't just come out and tell you what they are doing and have been doing.
Today's bodybuilders and their drug regimens compared to the 70's bodybuilders and their 'steroid' usage is like comparing a Mitsubishi Mirage to a Corvette Z06.
There is no reasonable comparison.
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Two things:
1. The doses used in the 1970s were tiny compared to the ones used today.
2. Several bodybuilders have suffered serious health complications due to anabolic drug use(Don Long, Tom Prince, Dennis Newman) and at least one has died(Andreas Munzer). The reason why many others haven't died is because medicine allows for organ transplant and has machines that substitute for organ function(dialyses machine). It also provides medications that allow to control the negative effects of steroids, like statins that lower bad cholesterol and counter the rise in LDL cholesterol caused by steroids. Both Dorian and Ronnie took daily doses of statins to stop the sauce from wrecking havoc with their cardiovascular systems. Without statins, you'd see far more pro bodybuilders dying from artherosclerosis, and without dialyses machines you'd see far more pros dying from nephrological problems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Statins = bad shit :( >:(
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The Major Side Effects of Statin Drugs
While the FDA has deemed statins to be safe to use for their intended purpose, no drug is totally without side effects in susceptible individuals. As the use of statin drugs continues to increase and people have been taking statins for a prolonged period that is significantly longer than the time period required for testing drugs, the side effects of statins affects more people than ever before.
Since the drug companies that manufacture statins have become aware of the incidence of serious side effects, they added a warning to statin advertising that was not present in the earliest advertising. This warning states, “Unexplained muscle pain and weakness could be a sign of a rare but serious side effect and should be reported to your doctor right away.” People who take statin drugs need to heed this warning immediately because in extreme cases the side effects of statins can be fatal.
Muscle pain and muscle weakness are two of the main side effects of statin drugs. While muscle pain and muscle weakness sound ordinary enough, due to the manner in which statin side effects can act in the body they are potentially dangerous side effects of statin use. Another is memory loss. Anyone who is taking statin drugs for any reason should be aware of these side effects and their symptoms. The medical establishment recommends that anyone who suspects they are experiencing any of the possible statin side effects consult with their medical professional.
Muscle Pain and Rhabdomyolysis
Muscle symptoms are a common side effect of statins; many people experience aching in the shoulders, pain in the jaw, or muscle pain in the legs. The muscle pain is a symptom muscle breakdown that is occurring in the body due to the side effect of the statin drug. When tissues break down, the body must eliminate the excess waste products. The waste products then overload the kidneys, causing more serious problems. Rhabdomyolysis (often called rhabdo for short) is the medical term for the breakdown of muscle fibers that results in the release of muscle fiber contents into the bloodstream. Besides muscle pain, the other major symptom of rhabdomyolysis is dark, red, or cola colored urine.
Severe rhabdomyolysis can result in death from acute kidney failure due to overload of the kidneys with deteriorated muscle tissue. If fact, the cholesterol lowering drug Baycol was removed from the market after being implicated in over 60 deaths due to rhabdomyolysis. However, rhabdomyolysis remains a dangerous side effect of statins in general.
According to the FDA MEDWATCH Reporting System, over 3300 cases of statin-associated rhabdomyolysis were reported between January 1, 1990, and March 31, 2002. Researchers estimate that between 1% and 5% of statin users will experience muscle pain and weakness as a side effect. While most people who experience muscle pain will return to normal after discontinuing statin use, some susceptible individuals suffer permanent muscle damage from statin use. Dr. Gregg C. Fonarow, UCLA professoer of cardiology, was recently quoted as saying between 2% and 8% of statin patients report muscle pain. A 2008 study of in vitro muscle cells exposed to simvastatin found that at a dose equivalent to 40 mg/day, new muscle cell growth was reduced by 50%. While this does not translate directly to how statins work inside the body, it does provide scientists proof that statins directly affect muscles.
Muscle Weakness and Neuropathy
While we joke about how things get on our nerves, nerves are real fibers in the body that send signals to control the movement of muscles and the functioning of organs. To review some basic anatomy, the human nervous system consists of the central nervous system, which is just the brain and the spinal cord, and the peripheral nervous system, which contains all the other nerves. The peripheral nervous system controls autonomic (that is, automatic) functions of the body like breathing and heartbeat.
Neuropathy, short for peripheral neuropathy, simply means a malfunction of the peripheral nervous system that occurs without any inflammation of the nerves. There are many causes of neuropathy, including injury to the nerves caused for example by an accident or various diseases like diabetes and kidney problems. The occurrence of toxic or poisonous substances in the body is another one of the ways neuropathy occurs.
There are over 100 types of neuropathy, each with its own cluster of symptoms that can be diagnosed by a neurologist. For susceptible individuals, the use of a statin drug can interfere with proper functioning of the peripheral nerves. Researchers assume that the build-up of statins in the body causes neuropathy in some individuals.
Muscle weakness is frequently a symptom of neuropathy and the muscle weakness may develop in a matter of days or may slowly progress over weeks or months. Individuals may simply not recognize the progressive muscle weakness and excuse the symptoms away as the result of being tired, overdoing or just getting older. For those who take statins, keep muscle weakness in mind as it “could be a sign of a rare but serious side effect.”
Other symptoms of neuropathy include: numbness, tingling, and pricking sensations; burning pain (especially at night); and/or sensitivity to touch. If left undiagnosed, neuropathy can lead to deterioration of the muscles and paralysis. Remember that we all need throat muscles to swallow, chest muscles to breathe, and that the heart is a muscle. In the extreme, severe neuropathy as a side effect to statin use can lead to death.
Some researchers estimate the 1 in 10 people who take statin drugs will experience a mild form of neuropathy where the symptoms may be a feeling of tiredness, difficulty in arising from a low chair or getting out of bed, shortness of breath or difficulty walking.
Small countries like Demark or Iceland are great for studying medical conditions. Because the population is genetically similar as opposed to the vast melting pot of the United States, it is easier to conduct a controlled study. A famous Danish study of neuropathy as a side effect to statin use concluded that an individual who is a long-term user of statin drugs has anywhere from 4 to 14 times greater risk of developing peripheral neuropathy than a person who does not take statin drugs. Typically, long-term use of statins is defined as 2 years or more but neuropathy can occur even after just a few days of use in a susceptible individual.
Memory Loss
Some people experience memory loss, report an inability to concentrate as well, and feel that they are developing Alzheimer’s disease when taking statin drugs. (Conincidentally, a new study suggests that simvastatin (Zocor) actually lowers the risk of Parkinson's and Alzheimer’s diseases.) This memory loss may be so extreme as to be amnesia that lasts for 6 to 12 hours. These types of problems are known as cognitive defects. Other people claim to experience mood swings and other behavioral changes when taking statins. These differences in behavior are not just subjective feelings on the part of the individual but tend to be corroborated by family members.
There are cases of cognitive difficulty that have been reported to the FDA as adverse side effects to statins. A systematic review of the cases reported to the FDA determined that approximately half of the memory loss problems occurred within 60 days of starting on statin therapy, although memory problems were reported after taking a statin drug for just 5 days. Fortunately most people return to normal after discontinuing the statin drug. The time until recovery appears to be related to the amount of time before the cognitive symptoms appeared; that is, the longer it took for the symptoms to appear, the longer it took for the person to recover. However, a small group may continue to suffer with cognitive problems, perhaps indefinitely.
The risk of experiencing memory problems while taking statins did show up in the first clinical trials of statins but memory loss occurred in less than half of one percent of the people in the clinical trials. Meanwhile, about 2 percent of the cases of side effects of statins reported to the FDA at the time these cases were studied concerned cognitive problems including memory loss.
There are two other points to consider. One is that amnesia used to be a rare phenomenon, especially transient global amnesia (TGA) where individuals can forget major details of their lives for hours only to return to normal until the next episode. Yet TGA is occurring with increased frequency. At the other end of the spectrum, it may be impossible to measure how many people who are taking statins simply ignore smaller lapses of memory or lack of attention. At this point in time, current research does not have an estimate of the incidence of memory loss associated with statin use in the general population.
A recent study raises the possibility that statins increase the risk of delerium in patients after surgery. Researchers at the University of Toronto looked at data from 284,000 people after surgery. Delerium is known to be underdiagnosed in these cases, but the researchers estimated that it occurs after 10% of all surgical procedures, and after 13% of procedures in people taking statins. Because delerium can reduce recovery time, this is an area of concern. The hypothesis is that the statins cause blood flow to the brain to reduce in favor of flow to the heart, although there is no firm evidence that this is happening. The researchers admitted that more work is needed to answer questions regarding surgery and statins, and they did not recommend stopping statins before surgery until more is known.
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Name some over 50 bbers that where huge, and are live and never had an organ transplant or diabetes .
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Name some over 50 bbers that where huge, and are live and never had an organ transplant or diabetes .
Lou Ferrigno, Vic Richards, Sergio Oliva, Franco Columbo, Ken Waller, Arnold S, Bertil Fox, Robby Robinson, Larry Scott, Bill Pearl, John Grimek..........
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Arnold S, (heart)
Bertil Fox, (got sent to prison before the abusing started)
not huge
Larry Scott,
Bill Pearl,
John Grimek..........
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Didn't Bill Pearl penetrate Coach while he was on Dbol?
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Didn't Bill Pearl penetrate Coach while he was on Dbol?
;D
And Arnolds heart condition was genetic , no one knows if his years of steroid abuse had any part to play in the condition needing treatment.All spectulation
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;D
And Arnolds heart condition was genetic , no one knows if his years of steroid abuse had any part to play in the condition needing treatment.All spectulation
Plus keep in mind all these people are humans. We get sick and even die regardless of who we are or what we do. The key is in comparing the number of bber deaths to the general population.
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;D
And Arnolds heart condition was genetic , no one knows if his years of steroid abuse had any part to play in the condition needing treatment.All spectulation
naive bullshit. A health guy, Hell it was CEO of the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports, was repeat major heart problems at 49 isn't normal.
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naive bullshit. A health guy, Hell it was CEO of the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports, was repeat major heart problems at 49 isn't normal.
ok DR ::)
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;D
And Arnolds heart condition was genetic , no one knows if his years of steroid abuse had any part to play in the condition needing treatment.All spectulation
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAH AAHAHA ;D
Like Princes + Wheelers kidney failure and Munzers multi-organ failure was all genetics as well. ::)
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HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA ;D
Like Princes + Wheelers kidney failure and Munzers multi-organ failure was all genetics as well. ::)
Muntzer had a genetic condition. He wanted to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was in his genes.
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naive bullshit. A health guy, Hell it was CEO of the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports, was repeat major heart problems at 49 isn't normal.
It was genetic you moron.. he had it as a teenager.
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how do steroids damage kidneys? I though that diuretics were more damaging to them.
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how do steroids damage kidneys? I though that diuretics were more damaging to them.
Do you have your creatinine levels in check? Mine were always highly elevated when on test.
Also the high blood pressure going hand in hand with steroid use has adverse effects on the kidneys.
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Two things:
1. The doses used in the 1970s were tiny compared to the ones used today.
2. Several bodybuilders have suffered serious health complications due to anabolic drug use(Don Long, Tom Prince, Dennis Newman) and at least one has died(Andreas Munzer). The reason why many others haven't died is because medicine allows for organ transplant and has machines that substitute for organ function(dialyses machine). It also provides medications that allow to control the negative effects of steroids, like statins that lower bad cholesterol and counter the rise in LDL cholesterol caused by steroids. Both Dorian and Ronnie took daily doses of statins to stop the sauce from wrecking havoc with their cardiovascular systems. Without statins, you'd see far more pro bodybuilders dying from artherosclerosis, and without dialyses machines you'd see far more pros dying from nephrological problems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
P.S. I do believe diuretics are the ones to blame for that one.
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suckmymuscle -- all those guys had issues not because of steroids but because of other substance such as diuretics and yes Arnold's heart issue was genetic. I don't know why people insist on saying that Arnold's heart issue came from steroids when in fact its common sense that it runs in his family.
Whats with some people pointing everything to steroids when so many things that happen to people would of happened regardless.
I rather do couple of light cycles then eat high sugary foods, high fat foods every single day. HHHMMMM i wonder which one of those will have more side affects down the line.
Lets keep the eye on the ball people. Millions of people die every single day from ALCOHOL, TOBACO, SUGAR, FAT, RECREATIONAL DRUGS. Don't judge someone else when in fact things that you do on daily basis kill hundreds of thousands of people on DAILY BASIS.
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then shouldn't we be having tons of 50-60 year old bbers dropping dead about now? I mean steroids came on the scene big in the 70s right? Doesn't make sense, where are all the bodies?
Where are the testicles? Where is the seedy turkish guy asking if you want some meth to go with that 'pharma grade' test? Where is the post cycle depression? Where is the manzier? Where is the hair club for men? Where are the guys who don't have an endocrine system shot to shit?
Use if you want to use but assess the risks, knowingly accept them instead of pretending like steroid use is entirely consequence free, and take steps to use as safely as you can.
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Name some over 50 bbers that where huge, and are live and never had an organ transplant or diabetes .
Nonsense. I didn't ever claimed that using steroids will result in one requiring organ transplant; I said using steroid increases the statistical odds that one will require organ transplant. The % of bodybuilders who require organ transplant or suffer from artherosclerosis is much higher than the general population.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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suckmymuscle -- all those guys had issues not because of steroids but because of other substance such as diuretics and yes Arnold's heart issue was genetic. I don't know why people insist on saying that Arnold's heart issue came from steroids when in fact its common sense that it runs in his family.
Whats with some people pointing everything to steroids when so many things that happen to people would of happened regardless.
I rather do couple of light cycles then eat high sugary foods, high fat foods every single day. HHHMMMM i wonder which one of those will have more side affects down the line.
Lets keep the eye on the ball people. Millions of people die every single day from ALCOHOL, TOBACO, SUGAR, FAT, RECREATIONAL DRUGS. Don't judge someone else when in fact things that you do on daily basis kill hundreds of thousands of people on DAILY BASIS.
Spot on and 100% correct. This is the smartest and most accurate post with regards to this subject. The general puplic (and especially the dumb media) knows knothing about AAS and is quick to point fingers. Tons of young people in their twenty & thirties die of heart issues and cancer daily and they have absolutely nothing to do with AAS.
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Theres alot of bbers from the 70's that while still alive, have had a lot of issues heart and other organs related... If you have a good medical insurance you too can be alive well past your 50's.
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We get sick and even die regardless of who we are or what we do.
Dammit. Thanks. Shit. Fuck.
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ok DR ::)
It doesn't take Sir Magdi Habib Yacoub to see cause and effect here.
Nonsense. I didn't ever claimed that using steroids will result in one requiring organ transplant; I said using steroid increases the statistical odds that one will require organ transplant. The % of bodybuilders who require organ transplant or suffer from artherosclerosis is much higher than the general population.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
My point exactly i believe roids are safe, as far as drugs go, unless you abuse them .
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bodybuilder use alot of steroids back in 70s too (although everyone downplays it)..also sport much smaller then + when people die they dont have ' i died of steroids' on their forehead...
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Dennis Newman got lukemia. As do many people including young children and my friend died of it and he was a skinny guy that never worked out. Tell me how it was steroid related.
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Lets keep the eye on the ball people. Millions of people die every single day from ALCOHOL, TOBACO, SUGAR, FAT, RECREATIONAL DRUGS. Don't judge someone else when in fact things that you do on daily basis kill hundreds of thousands of people on DAILY BASIS.
Moot point. 'Look at the what other bad things people do people so what I do isn't so bad?'
Those types are/should be grouped together with gear abuse as unhealthy activities, and vilified as well. When talking about true health and fitness, one should assume we, as health conscious individuals avoid those vices.
I personally eat no sugar, drink little alcohol, don't smoke, eat low fat, moderate carb, moderate protein diet and do no rec drugs nor prescription drugs.