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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on February 01, 2010, 07:07:18 AM
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Apparently Dan Herbeck and Lou Michel wrote a book about McVeigh where they gathered information through many interviews w/him. They said he was AGNOSTIC.
Question from chat room: Does McVeigh have any spiritual-religious beliefs?
Lou Michel: McVeigh is agnostic. He doesn't believe in God, but he won't rule out the possibility. I asked him, "What if there is a heaven and hell?"
He said that once he crosses over the line from life to death, if there is something on the other side, he will -- and this is using his military jargon -- "adapt, improvise, and overcome." Death to him is all part of the adventure.
Chat Moderator: How were you two able to cultivate a relationship with McVeigh that resulted in these exclusive interviews?
Dan Herbeck: Hundreds of reporters from all over the country had tried to get interviews with Tim McVeigh, including reporters from Oklahoma City and many other communities. The way this all came about is that, a few days after the bombing, people in western New York were shocked to learn that the bomber was from our community.
Lou Michel was able to establish contact with Bill McVeigh, Tim McVeigh's father. Lou treated the family fairly. They were going through a lot of stress like everyone else. Lou treated them fairly, and ultimately Bill McVeigh introduced Lou to Timothy McVeigh, and Timothy McVeigh finally decided to cooperate with interviews for our book. This took place over the course of several years.
http://www.cnn.com/COMMUNITY/transcripts/2001/04/04/michelherbeck/
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sounds a little like someone who's been programed
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If he accepted christ as his savior he is, if he didn't he's not. Same as everyone else.
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If he accepted christ as his savior he is, if he didn't he's not. Same as everyone else.
Apparently he hadn't by the time he interviewed w/these guys which was after the bombing....so calling him a "Christian Terrorist" (taken from another thread - not saying you did) would be inaccurate.
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I doubt it. I actually felt a sense of relief and almost happiness when he was executed. The pictures of those children he murdered is something I will never forget.
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bump
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I don't think he was. But I don't understand why it matters. Historically, whenever someone who claims christianity does something illegal, atrocious or immoral there will be an automatic response from other people who claim to be christian that they "really weren't Christian". It doesn't matter if that person was a priest, preacher, evangelist, Boy Scout leader... the very fact they did something horrible, they are of course disowned by Christians for the most part. But.. these very Christians who quickly disown anyone who claims to be christian and does these acts, seem to find it very difficult to apply that to people of other religions..
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I don't think he was. But I don't understand why it matters. Historically, whenever someone who claims christianity does something illegal, atrocious or immoral there will be an automatic response from other people who claim to be christian that they "really weren't Christian". It doesn't matter if that person was a priest, preacher, evangelist, Boy Scout leader... the very fact they did something horrible, they are of course disowned by Christians for the most part. But.. these very Christians who quickly disown anyone who claims to be christian and does these acts, seem to find it very difficult to apply that to people of other religions..
I'm not sure that's accurate. And it's not that simple. Sometimes a person who claims to be a Christian in fact really isn't a Christian. Sometimes a "true" Christian does very bad things. No one really knows what's in that person's heart. All we can do is form opinions based on what we see and what we know/have learned. For the most part, you look at what a person says and does consistently to determine what kind of person they are. This is true of most things in life. Not a foolproof way of forming opinions, but there really isn't any other way.
Also, being a Christian doesn't mean a person becomes infallible. Mistakes will always happen. Everyone, whether Christian or not, has their struggles.
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Good post Beach bum, I dont know if anyone can say if McVeigh made his peace with God before he was put to death or not.
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if the 911 bombers were muslim then mcveigh ws a christian.... :-\
muslim terrorists r muslim but christian terrorists r not....riiiight ::)
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if the 911 bombers were muslim then mcveigh ws a christian.... :-\
muslim terrorists r muslim but christian terrorists r not....riiiight ::)
Nobody can tell you the accurate answer. Only God and Christ knows Mr. McVeigh's heart (figurative) condition.
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Nobody can tell you the accurate answer. Only God and Christ knows Mr. McVeigh's heart (figurative) condition.
i'm an atheist mon ami...but its now getting annoying to constantly see people not apply the same filer they apply to everyone else, except themselves....
quick to point and say terrorist when a muslim is involved but come up with elaborate excuses when that person happens to be a christian :-\ its pathetic..sorta like i can dish it out but i cant take it ::)
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i'm an atheist mon ami...but its now getting annoying to constantly see people not apply the same filer they apply to everyone else, except themselves....
quick to point and say terrorist when a muslim is involved but come up with elaborate excuses when that person happens to be a christian :-\ its pathetic..sorta like i can dish it out but i cant take it ::)
I think Muslim terrorists get labelled "terrorists" when they commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. There really isn't anything comparable in American Christianity, which doesn't teach jihad, etc.
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I think Muslim terrorists get labelled "terrorists" when they commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. There really isn't anything comparable in American Christianity, which doesn't teach jihad, etc.
you mean the FBI and CIA and all this social stigma will go away if they just wisened up and quit saying it ws for islam? :o
you do realize that feeding the needy, giving charity...doing a good deed...not lying etc etc is also jihad right?
or did you selectively choose to listen to only the holy war aspect of it?
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I think Muslim terrorists get labelled "terrorists" when they commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. There really isn't anything comparable in American Christianity, which doesn't teach jihad, etc.
Stellar point, friend! Thanks for sharing!
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i'm an atheist mon ami...but its now getting annoying to constantly see people not apply the same filer they apply to everyone else, except themselves....
quick to point and say terrorist when a muslim is involved but come up with elaborate excuses when that person happens to be a christian :-\ its pathetic..sorta like i can dish it out but i cant take it ::)
Yes, hypocrisy is rampant as was in the beginning. What we have to do any order to decipher who is genuine, would be to follow Christ advice in regards to this very dilemma. He made it quite easy for a person to be able to see who is/was genuine in their worship to his Father.
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you mean the FBI and CIA and all this social stigma will go away if they just wisened up and quit saying it ws for islam? :o
you do realize that feeding the needy, giving charity...doing a good deed...not lying etc etc is also jihad right?
or did you selectively choose to listen to only the holy war aspect of it?
No, the "stigma" will go away when they stop abusing women, engaging in human rights violations, promoting the rape of children, stop honor killings, and stop relying on religious texts that call for wars/attacks against the infidels.
No, I didn't realize that jihad also includes charity. But even assuming that's true, charity doesn't excuse the murder of innocents.
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No, the "stigma" will go away when they stop abusing women, engaging in human rights violations, promoting the rape of children, stop honor killings, and stop relying on religious texts that call for wars/attacks against the infidels.
do you honestly think all that is in the koran??? lol...yeesh..now i really cant blame the 3rd world muslims for believing that christanity is evil...cause someone that ws born and raised in the first world witb a first world education believs such crap :-\
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do you honestly think all that is in the koran??? lol...yeesh..now i really cant blame the 3rd world muslims for believing that christanity is evil...cause someone that ws born and raised in the first world witb a first world education believs such crap :-\
I don't know if all of that is in the Koran. What I do know is that all of that is a part of Muslim societies.
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I don't know if all of that is in the Koran. What I do know is that all of that is a part of Muslim societies.
so its a social not religious thing....
christians in african countries practice all those bad acts you so conveniently laid on islams doorstep ;)
you want me to start looking those up on a daily basis and posting them regularly claiming christianity as an evil religion that promotes female circumsicion for instance in africa?
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so its a social not religious thing....
christians in african countries practice all those bad acts you so conveniently laid on islams doorstep ;)
you want me to start looking those up on a daily basis and posting them regularly claiming christianity as an evil religion that promotes female circumsicion for instance in africa?
Is there really a difference between what Muslims in "Muslim" countries do as part of their society and their religious faith? I don't see a disconnect at all.
"Christians" do bad things in African countries, in the United States, etc. What we don't have, at least in this country, are mainstream Christian teachings that call for the killing of innocents. Not a whole lot of "Christian" terrorists either.
You can post whatever you want. One of the nice things about living in this great country. But you better not talk stink about Mohammed if you value your safety. :)
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Is there really a difference between what Muslims in "Muslim" countries do as part of their society and their religious faith? I don't see a disconnect at all.
my uncles drink.....one of my uncles ws famous for hiring UK hoookers to come to his house in karachi.....i guess thats part of islam eh according to your logic
"Christians" do bad things in African countries, in the United States, etc. What we don't have, at least in this country, are mainstream Christian teachings that call or the killing of innocents. Not a whole lot of "Christian" terrorists either.
sorry but you r calling the acts of terrorists as main stream islam?? my friendo if 1.8 billion muslims wanted you dead...you'd be dead...if it ws mainstream...yes there r passages in the koran that call upon killing the indifel...but those passages are after passages that call you winning the war thru peace and negotiating with the enemy......again no one seems to quote those :-\
You can post whatever you want. One of the nice things about living in this great country. But you better not talk stink about Mohammed if you value your safety. :)
i spoke my mind when in pakistan also...i didn't suddenly move to america and become an athiest...i had those tendencies in pakistan...except my dad had connections...so i could blab when i chose to....
besides...this whole going ape shit over a few mohammed pix is not the islam i grew up around
and NO you cant post what ever you want even here...go ahead...make the wrong kinda threat against obama online...i dare you..go ahead mr freedom of speech ;D
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You will always be able to find something wrong with people. Imperfection eats us alive, so to speak. What we have to do according to Jesus, is to identify the Christian religion. In other words, which one is teaching what Christ taught. Then, we can work on being forgiven and bringing our lives in harmony with Christ.
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You will always be able to find something wrong with people. Imperfection eats us alive, so to speak. What we have to do according to Jesus, is to identify the Christian religion. In other words, which one is teaching what Christ taught. Then, we can work on being forgiven and bringing our lives in harmony with Christ.
replace christ with god or mohammed and you sound like my dad >:(
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to my knowledge mcviegh didnt commit his act of terrorism in the name of jesus did he?
its not the same as islamic radicals that do protein...
I understand what youre saying bro but in all honesty a good portion of the blame lays with muslims in 1st world countries. I dont know if its part of the culture or what but they do not do enough to differentiate themselves from radical islam. They let more radical muslims do things without commenting and without pushing back against them.
there is a commercial coming out from CAIR(an islamic org) that condemns terrorism etc. in response to the NYC mosque back lash and the bad light they feel ppl see islam in...
WHERE WAS THIS AD 9 YEARS AGO? why is this the first such ad?
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to my knowledge mcviegh didnt commit his act of terrorism in the name of jesus did he?
its not the same as islamic radicals that do protein...
I understand what youre saying bro but in all honesty a good portion of the blame lays with muslims in 1st world countries. I dont know if its part of the culture or what but they do not do enough to differentiate themselves from radical islam. They let more radical muslims do things without commenting and without pushing back against them.
there is a commercial coming out from CAIR(an islamic org) that condemns terrorism etc. in response to the NYC mosque back lash and the bad light they feel ppl see islam in...
WHERE WAS THIS AD 9 YEARS AGO? why is this the first such ad?
i can only speak for my parents....when you r running 2 gas stations and building 30 or so houses while trying to sell another 30 or so....you dont have time... i mean what r they supposed to do to differentiate themselves...go on TV and say " we r different"? i mean seriously..gimme some ideas here...
the non extremist muslims in pakistan dont dare open their mouths cause the police there sure isn't gonna help ya if someone breaks into your house and kills you
as for commiting these acts in the name of islam...man those muslims must be REALLY stupid then..cause they obviously know that thats bad pr for the religion...soo maybe my dad is RIGHT...maybe most of these terrorist acts are false flag operations...islam sure didn't have such a bad name a mere 50 yrs ago :-\
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i can only speak for my parents....when you r running 2 gas stations and building 30 or so houses while trying to sell another 30 or so....you dont have time... i mean what r they supposed to do to differentiate themselves...go on TV and say " we r different"? i mean seriously..gimme some ideas here...
the non extremist muslims in pakistan dont dare open their mouths cause the police there sure isn't gonna help ya if someone breaks into your house and kills you
as for commiting these acts in the name of islam...man those muslims must be REALLY stupid then..cause they obviously know that thats bad pr for the religion...soo maybe my dad is RIGHT...maybe most of these terrorist acts are false flag operations...islam sure didn't have such a bad name a mere 50 yrs ago :-\
lol you dont find time protein, you make time...do you just find time to study or do you purposely make time?
thats my point these groups and the muslim community as a whole havnt gone out of their way like they are trying to do now to differentiate themselves...why didnt they do this 9 yrs ago?
I understand if youre in a region that it is detrimental to your well being to speak up but thats not the case here in the states, in england, in europe
I would agree they are stupid but they from what i can tell arent concerned with how islam looks to non islamics...
again did mcveigh commit his terrorist act in the name of jesus? if not then this is a horrible argument...
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I would agree they are stupid but they from what i can tell arent concerned with how islam looks to non islamics...
actually you might have hit on something there....since they dont even coonsider these terrorists as muslims then they dont probablty feel that they have to justify themselves to anyone..you might have something there
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actually you might have hit on something there....since they dont even coonsider these terrorists as muslims then they dont probablty feel that they have to justify themselves to anyone..you might have something there
i meant the terrorists dont care how non islamist view islam...
ppl who want to live in a society need to be concerned about how others view them to a certain extent.
and it doesnt matter what they view them as it matters what others view them as...
Ive said this many many times the muslim apathy towards condemning terrorism in any discernable way is a big part of the anti muslim sentiment in this country.
Where was the urge to distance islam from radical islam 9 yrs ago? where was the urge to condemn those actions commited in the name of their religion 9 yrs ago?
Im not saying they didnt condemn it but they didnt make it a point to condemn it and distance themselves from these radicals...
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Where was the urge to distance islam from radical islam 9 yrs ago? where was the urge to condemn those actions commited in the name of their religion 9 yrs ago?
part of it simply ws fear to of saying anything i think...i ws repeatedly told not to go to bars n clubs by my parents...which i did anyhow...and i got into a few fights for people coming up to me and saying stuff like "what did we ever do to you people??" :-\
surprisingly though...99% of the ones that actually shoved me ( and got their ass handed to them a second after ) were black...
they didn't know all the white rednecky bouncers were my friends...so they got taken to the back alley ;)
so i figure..for a lot of people the fear ws justified...for fucks sake..some indian sikhs got killed in NY...they have nothing to do with islam
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replace christ with god or mohammed and you sound like my dad >:(
I'm definitely not your dad, but I am a lover of ALL people! From the looks of your post that I've read, if I would have been your dad, it appears I would have been a proud poppa! Have you ever wondered why God is represented by so many different religions? Have you ever wondered why there is so much DISUNITY and/or disagreement within these religions? Have you ever noticed that in most of them, you can ask 50 different members of a particular SAME religion the SAME, EXACT spiritual question, yet get 50 DIFFERNT answers? I thought God was a God of unity and organization? How can these people, if being instructed by the same God and supposedly using the same source of God's thoughts, instructions, principles, morals, ethics, etc., be so CONFUSED? Is God, a God of confusion?
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tony here..people speaking out as you say
watch this video..which i doubt u will
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tony here..people speaking out as you say
watch this video..which i doubt u will
ive watched 10 mins so far and only one person has condemned terrorism...
sorry pakis but why should we put other ppls interest ahead of our own?
thats your govts job not ours, ours is to look after our citizens so yes youre right in that respect one "white" life is worth more than one "brown" life(their words not mine)
Ill watch more later Im off to play a round of golf
LOL more evil america, evil america
Ill give you the america meddling in foreign affairs but the first 10 mins or so with ppl complaining about us being in afghanistan and pressuring pakistan... ::) ::) ::)