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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: The True Adonis on February 02, 2010, 11:54:09 AM
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no comments from the christians at all? seriously, silence speaks louder then words.
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no comments from the christians at all? seriously, silence speaks louder then words.
One, I can't see his video.
Two, If I were a betting man, I'd say that this is little more than the usual foolishness that TA tends to post, that has been refuted more times than I care to count.
Three, your assumption, that silence or lack of a response to a thread means that TA (or anyone else) has an irrefutable case, borders on the absurd.
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I can't see it either, but nothing TA posts about religion is worth reading, watching or commenting on anyway.
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I can't see it either, but nothing TA posts about religion is worth reading, watching or commenting on anyway.
This is merely a guy reading STRAIGHT from the Bible, word for word, and then asking what Christians think about it and if they believe it and how do they rationalize any "good" in the particular part of text he read.
I would like to hear your thoughts on it as well considering it is just a simple reading from the Bible.
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This is merely a guy reading STRAIGHT from the Bible, word for word, and then asking what Christians think about it and if they believe it and how do they rationalize any "good" in the particular part of text he read.
I would like to hear your thoughts on it as well considering it is just a simple reading from the Bible.
Once again, I can't see the video, as YouTube is blocked where I'm posting right now.
Get to the point, please. Thanksgiving is only 9 months away.
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As I figured, another blowhard Brit, running his mouth about the Bible, without the slightest clue about that which he speaks......BBIIIIIIIIII IIGGG SURPRISE THERE!!! ::)
First, the site he just referenced claims that 10% of Christians claim to have read the ENTIRE Bible (that is, from Genesis to Revelation), not that only 10% have ever read the Bible, period.
Second, (shock of shocks) this dope didn't even bother reading the entire passage of Deut. 32. He conveniently skipped over the surrounding context of the verses.
Why exactly does this harsh judgment come upon Israel again? This guy in the video started at verse 15, but "conveniently" left out the previous 14 verses:
Deu 32:1 "Give ear, O heavens, and let me speak; And let the earth hear the words of my mouth."
"Deu 32: 2 "Let my teaching drop as the rain, My speech distill as the dew, As the droplets on the fresh grass And as the showers on the herb.
Deu 32:3 "For I proclaim the name of the LORD; Ascribe greatness to our God!
Deu 32:4 "The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.
Deu 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children, because of their defect; But are a perverse and crooked generation.
Deu 32: 6 "Do you thus repay the LORD, O foolish and unwise people? Is not He your Father who has bought you? He has made you and established you.
Deu 32:7 "Remember the days of old, Consider the years of all generations. Ask your father, and he will inform you, Your elders, and they will tell you.
Deu 32:8 "When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, When He separated the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples According to the number of the sons of Israel.
Deu 32:9 "For the LORD'S portion is His people; Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance.
Deu 32:10 "He found him in a desert land, And in the howling waste of a wilderness; He encircled him, He cared for him, He guarded him as the pupil of His eye."
Deu 32:11 "Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, That hovers over its young, He spread His wings and caught them, He carried them on His pinions.
Deu 32:12 "The LORD alone guided him, And there was no foreign god with him."
Deu 32:13 "He made him ride on the high places of the earth, And he ate the produce of the field; And He made him suck honey from the rock, And oil from the flinty rock,"
Deu 32:14 "Curds of cows, and milk of the flock, With fat of lambs, And rams, the breed of Bashan, and goats, With the finest of the wheat— And of the blood of grapes you drank wine."
It is after all of this that...
Deu 32:15 But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked— You are grown fat, thick, and sleek— Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
Deu 32:16 "They made Him jealous with strange gods; With abominations they provoked Him to anger.
Deu 32:17 "They sacrificed to demons who were not God, To gods whom they have not known, New gods who came lately, Whom your fathers did not dread."
Did this Einstein (or TA, for that matter) bother to consider exactly how Israel starting sacrificing to those other gods, after abandoning Jehovah (the One that brought them to prosperity)?
Israel's neighbors were NOTORIOUS for sexual perversion and human sacrifice, especially of women and children. The previous chapters of Deuteronomy point that out. In fact, God not ONLY forbade worship of other gods, but He stated that Israel was NOT to worship Him as other nations worshipped their deities.
Deu 12:30, "Beware that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?"
Deu 12:31 "You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods"
When calamity hit Israel, often from the VERY PAGAN NATIONS that the Israelites mimicked, they weren't bowing before Baal and Ashoreth didn't save them. It was the Lord to whom they cried for deliverance. That, of course, is the point of this passage.
This silly YouTube video is but the latest in a feeble yet comical attempt of smart-alec atheists to show their behinds (only to end up looking like such), when the facts of Scripture come to light. And, it's little surprise that TA (in brazen Scriptural ignorance) would post such foolishness.
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And, after further review, we find that this dude REAAAAALY doesn't read very well.
Chapter 32 is basically a song or prophecy, that God gives to Moses to keep among the people of Israel, as Moses lives out the last days of his life.
God is predicting exactly what will happen, if you read chapter 31, verses 16-22.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
Basically, the verses in Chapter 32 is a prophetic song to show that Israel will abandon God, once they get their inheritance in the promised land and become prosperous. Once the calamities start, they will know exactly why they've been hammered.
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One, I can't see his video.
Two, If I were a betting man, I'd say that this is little more than the usual foolishness that TA tends to post, that has been refuted more times than I care to count.
Three, your assumption, that silence or lack of a response to a thread means that TA (or anyone else) has an irrefutable case, borders on the absurd.
you cant defend anything god says in those verses, its absurd lol. He is vicious and clearly not ALL LOVING, how can he be? As for three, i never made that assertion, not sure how you dug up that strawman but it was out of thin air.
so the guy is stupid for not reading all the verses before it? thats the point, he has selected a passage to emphasize how diabolical god is represented. Why would he read the preceeding parts, god is depicted as a crazy, blood thirsty psychopath in those verses is he not?
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you cant defend anything god says in those verses, its absurd lol. He is vicious and clearly not ALL LOVING, how can he be? As for three, i never made that assertion, not sure how you dug up that strawman but it was out of thin air.
so the guy is stupid for not reading all the verses before it? thats the point, he has selected a passage to emphasize how diabolical god is represented. Why would he read the preceeding parts, god is depicted as a crazy, blood thirsty psychopath in those verses is he not?
And how exactly is the Lord supposed to react to Israel, breaking covenant with Him and engaging in the VERY ACTIVITIES (i.e. human sacrifice, perverted sexual rituals to foreign gods, etc) that Israel's enemies did?
Furthermore, if you read Deut. 31, all the Lord has to do is hide His face from Israel and NOT come to the people's aid, when Israel's enemies arise and seek to destroy them.
As the song that Moses writes said, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
In other words, how else did and could the Israelites defeat their enemies (who grossly outnumbered them and had better and more weapons), except the Lord be on their side?
God simply turned from His people, after they turned from Him. And the results were tragic. Israel's enemies beat the tar out of them. After that, they weren't crying for Molech or Baal. They cried for the Lord to deliver them.....AGAIN!!!
The reason I said what I did is because, you implied that by no one immediately replying to this video that no one on this thread, who is a believer, could answer the claims made by the man in the video.
The "silience" wasn't due to lack of an answer. I really hadn't seen this thread, beforehand.
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Poor McWay! O, woe is me, how does he do it? I feel your (McWay) pain, when reading your responses to these ________ (fill in blank).
These rebuttals are like saying a police officer doesn't have the right to retaliate in the occurrence of a bank robbery!
Let me guess, for you _______ (fill in the blank) which side would you have rather been on? God's or one of the other HEATHEN nations, which offered their young children up for death as a sacrifice to one of their absurd god's? Are you defending these nations? If you are, YOU are the one who is painfully warped! These other nations were flat out horrific with rituals and practices in that day. I wonder sometimes what age these folks are *LOL*.
Like McWay said, (paraphrased) those britts shine with ignorant pride!
Government_controlled/DEA_AGENT
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Poor McWay! O, woe is me, how does he do it? I feel your (McWay) pain, when reading your responses to these ________ (fill in blank).
These rebuttals are like saying a police officer doesn't have the right to retaliate in the occurrence of a bank robbery!
Let me guess, for you _______ (fill in the blank) which side would you have rather been on? God's or one of the other HEATHEN nations, which offered their young children up for death as a sacrifice to one of their absurd god's? Are you defending these nations? If you are, YOU are the one who is painfully warped! These other nations were flat out horrific with rituals and practices in that day. I wonder sometimes what age these folks are *LOL*.
Like McWay said, (paraphrased) those britts shine with ignorant pride!
Government_controlled/DEA_AGENT
OMG LOGICZZ does god know the future? yes he does, so he created these people knowing what he would do and what they would do, makes him pretty fucking sick if you ask me. Theres even a branch of theology to cover this logical incongruency, which shows it as an epic failz.
Also, how can something be all loving yet do evil things? it can't. So from gods actions we can conclude somethings about his character. He is jealous, venegful, irrational, and brutal. Breaking convenant with god or performing rituals to other gods should not make god wish death and slaughter upon a large group of people, who is he? hitler. Like come on, God killed everyone, EVERYONE except for noah in a worldwide flood, he either has no sense of the future making him non-omnipotent, or doesnt give a fuck and likes to kill and torture, how can you reconcile it any other way?
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OMG LOGICZZ does god know the future? yes he does, so he created these people knowing what he would do and what they would do, makes him pretty fucking sick if you ask me. Theres even a branch of theology to cover this logical incongruency, which shows it as an epic failz.
Also, how can something be all loving yet do evil things? it can't. So from gods actions we can conclude somethings about his character. He is jealous, venegful, irrational, and brutal. Breaking convenant with god or performing rituals to other gods should not make god wish death and slaughter upon a large group of people, who is he? hitler. Like come on, God killed everyone, EVERYONE except for noah in a worldwide flood, he either has no sense of the future making him non-omnipotent, or doesnt give a fuck and likes to kill and torture, how can you reconcile it any other way?
They're only stories in a book man - you can't assign any validity to them whatsoever - I mean there is no god, certainly not in the bible sense anyway.
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OMG LOGICZZ does god know the future? yes he does, so he created these people knowing what he would do and what they would do, makes him pretty fucking sick if you ask me. Theres even a branch of theology to cover this logical incongruency, which shows it as an epic failz.
Also, how can something be all loving yet do evil things? it can't. So from gods actions we can conclude somethings about his character. He is jealous, venegful, irrational, and brutal. Breaking convenant with god or performing rituals to other gods should not make god wish death and slaughter upon a large group of people, who is he? hitler. Like come on, God killed everyone, EVERYONE except for noah in a worldwide flood, he either has no sense of the future making him non-omnipotent, or doesnt give a fuck and likes to kill and torture, how can you reconcile it any other way?
So, which side would you have chose to be on? God of Abraham or the other gods? God doesn't have a right to cast judgment on his own works? Would you have threw your young child into a fire on behalf of your god? If you had two children, and one of them was a threat to the rest of your families well being, what would you do? Let him/her commit atrocity to you and the rest of your family? Or would you put him her out of their misery, thereby preserving YOU and the rest of your family? It's a tough, heartbreaking choice, but what would you do? Allow them to live and you and your family die?
As far as God's powers, can't he choose to use those powers when he wants too? Does he have to exercise them, simply because he can? Can he choose to restrain using them? Do you always choose to use your expertise/gifts etc. etc. Or do you restrain when necessary?
BTW, you are misinterpreting what you read in the Bible, hence, the confusion you are experiencing.
Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent
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and clearly not ALL LOVING, how can he be?
Necrosis, I'm curious...
1) What does "ALL-LOVING" mean to you?
2) How do you think God should have handled situations like this?
3) Are you afraid of death?
4) Do you wish people would have never been created and given free-will?
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So, which side would you have chose to be on? God of Abraham or the other gods? God doesn't have a right to cast judgment on his own works? Would you have threw your young child into a fire on behalf of your god? If you had two children, and one of them was a threat to the rest of your families well being, what would you do? Let him/her commit atrocity to you and the rest of your family? Or would you put him her out of their misery, thereby preserving YOU and the rest of your family? It's a tough, heartbreaking choice, but what would you do? Allow them to live and you and your family die?
As far as God's powers, can't he choose to use those powers when he wants too? Does he have to exercise them, simply because he can? Can he choose to restrain using them? Do you always choose to use your expertise/gifts etc. etc. Or do you restrain when necessary?
BTW, you are misinterpreting what you read in the Bible, hence, the confusion you are experiencing.
Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent
first off you have no idea if what your saying is true, you are geussing, i know this because you are not privy to information i am not. You have no idea what living in eternity means, what perfection is, you are just making up stuff to create an argument. God shouldn't need to withhold his powers, he knows the future, argument refuted entirely. The thing you are describing sounds awfully human to me, you would think god would have done a better job with his creation, the fact that there are mistakes indicate that he is not perfect or created those mistakes on purpose to punish the people, either way it makes no sense.
You don't need to read the bible to refute the existence of your god, you give me his attributes and ill tell you why they are not possible.
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Necrosis, I'm curious...
1) What does "ALL-LOVING" mean to you?
2) How do you think God should have handled situations like this?
3) Are you afraid of death?
4) Do you wish people would have never been created and given free-will?
1) pure love, only loving. Is capable of only love.
2) he should have never created them in the first place it is logical that the progression he established isnt the only possibility, if he is all powerful couldn't he just change there minds, recreate their minds to be good? no, his only option (while knowing the future) is to slaughter them all and let them suffer. Doesn't make sense to me, sounds like a failure, something a perfect being could not produce.
3) no, not really. Im afraid of dying and suffering, but i was already dead for 14 billion years and didn't seem to mind, i assume it will be the same.
4) people weren't created, and i'm not sure if free will exists as our brains control our consciousness, more research needs to be done in the area, but chaos theory has shown that we can predict some things that were once thought random.
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1) pure love, only loving. Is capable of only love.
2) he should have never created them in the first place it is logical that the progression he established isnt the only possibility, if he is all powerful couldn't he just change there minds, recreate their minds to be good? no, his only option (while knowing the future) is to slaughter them all and let them suffer. Doesn't make sense to me, sounds like a failure, something a perfect being could not produce.
3) no, not really. Im afraid of dying and suffering, but i was already dead for 14 billion years and didn't seem to mind, i assume it will be the same.
4) people weren't created, and i'm not sure if free will exists as our brains control our consciousness, more research needs to be done in the area, but chaos theory has shown that we can predict some things that were once thought random.
Thanks for your answers Necro!
1) Does your idea of Pure Love/All-Loving negate discipline or justice?
2) I can understand your struggle w/this. Sometimes I wonder why God allows some things to happen when it is in His power to change them or stop them before they occur. But I realize that I don't know everything. I do believe that God does though and that makes it easier to accept some things.
Do you believe that sometimes people bring tragedy/destruction upon themselves?
3) Are you saying that you existed but were dead for 14 billion years?
Is it the suffering before dying that you are afraid of or the suffering and the dying? For me, it's the suffering. I recently was realizing that the line between life and death is razor thin. THe suffering was terrible, but even though I prayed to live, the dying part didn't scare me. I think it is one moment alive, one moment dead (body-wise)...and since I have the hope of heaven that probably calmed me a lot on the dying part.
4) Can you give me a non-Wikipedia link that you think does a good job of explaining chaos theory so I can learn more about it? Thanks Necro!
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great questions, Stella! :) I love how big your heart is to bring others to Christ. ;D
MCWAY!!!! As always, you bring practicality and reality in your rebuttals. I've learned so much from you over the years. Thank you!!! Thank you!!! ;D
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Antother factually-challeneged video, made by something who know SQUAT about the Bible. The "Thinking Atheist"? ::)
One, Lot's act of cowardice was hardly condoned by Scripture, notwithstanding the fact that the Sodomites, who tried to assault Lot's guests were blinded (why is it that atheists never whine about the Sodomites trying to do the raping, in the first place?).
Two, Here we go again: The pathetic attempt at using the Jephthah account. Read the story carefully and you notice that Jephthah DOES NOT SACRIFICE HIS DAUGTHER. Reasons:
a) His vow was to give a burnt offering to the Lord. The rules in Leviticus, regarding burnt offering all involved LIVESTOCK (all of which were MALE).
b) The emphasis on the story is the daughter bewailing her virginity and the fact that she was Jephthah's only child. Do you REEEEEAAAAAALLLLY think that a gal, about to get hacked on the grill, is worried about being a virgin?
There were women who serve at the Temple and dedicated their lives to the Lord's work. These were usually widows or virgins WHO WERE NEVER MARRIED. The daughter's lamenting is that she would never produce an heir for her father.
If this goof, Richard Dawkins thinks God is misogynistic, I invite him to check out the practice of Molech, Dagon, and Baal. I'm sure NOW would also be thrilled as to how followers of those deities treated their women.
First, as I've said numerous times, atheists have a nasty habit of NOT mentioning what their standard of morality is. In other words, how can you say you are "moral", without some form of measuring stick that says "This is right" vs. "This is wrong"?
And, as the passage from Deu. states, See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.
In essence, it fits right with the first and second Commandments. He is the Creator of Life and He can do what He sees fit with His creation.
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OMG LOGICZZ does god know the future? yes he does, so he created these people knowing what he would do and what they would do, makes him pretty fucking sick if you ask me. Theres even a branch of theology to cover this logical incongruency, which shows it as an epic failz.
Also, how can something be all loving yet do evil things? it can't. So from gods actions we can conclude somethings about his character. He is jealous, venegful, irrational, and brutal. Breaking convenant with god or performing rituals to other gods should not make god wish death and slaughter upon a large group of people, who is he? hitler. Like come on, God killed everyone, EVERYONE except for noah in a worldwide flood, he either has no sense of the future making him non-omnipotent, or doesnt give a fuck and likes to kill and torture, how can you reconcile it any other way?
It's called free will. An all-loving God allows people to make their own choices, even if those choices can lead to their destruction.
And, you never answered Stella's or GC's question (or mine, for that matter). Israel is now participating in the very same barbaric rituals that their neighbors were doing (hence the reason God gave their land to Israel, in the first place). They broke their covenant with the Lord, the One who lead them to victory against bigger, stronger, more powerful armies.
Is the Lord simply supposed to do nothing (notwithstanding the statement in Deut. 31 that all He had to do is hide His face from Israel and Israel's doom would be ensured)?
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great questions, Stella! :) I love how big your heart is to bring others to Christ. ;D
MCWAY!!!! As always, you bring practicality and reality in your rebuttals. I've learned so much from you over the years. Thank you!!! Thank you!!! ;D
You're welcome.
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It's called free will. An all-loving God allows people to make their own choices, even if those choices can lead to their destruction.
And, you never answered Stella's or GC's question (or mine, for that matter). Israel is now participating in the very same barbaric rituals that their neighbors were doing (hence the reason God gave their land to Israel, in the first place). They broke their covenant with the Lord, the One who lead them to victory against bigger, stronger, more powerful armies.
Is the Lord simply supposed to do nothing (notwithstanding the statement in Deut. 31 that all He had to do is hide His face from Israel and Israel's doom would be ensured)?
free will doesnt exist if god knows the future, if he knows what you are going to do, how is that a choice? it was something you were going to do regardless, hence, already known.
I answered stellas questions, and GC, what are you talking about? offering up your daughters to be raped, asking for human sacrificies etc= immoral. Having an eternal punishment for a finite crime=immoral.
I know i dont get morality from your god because i am more moral, i wouldnt create man and then kill everyone when i wasnt happy with my creation, when i can apparently do anything i choose, the last option would be killing everyone. LoL. what about those who lived before christ, they were created to be sent to hell, why did god wait so long to create humans? he sat around for 14 billion years then decided to create humans. Your story stretches credulity and makes no sense at all.
why do you need external to have morality, it is a inborn thing that we all have evolved with, something that serves us quite well in fact. Things also change, it might be cool to condem homos back in the bible, but less and less so nowadays, right and wrong are relative, and movable. Morality is also studied in evolutionary theory quite extensively. Animals show morals in fact, bonobos show many human characteristics, our homology is alike, our genetics are alike, shit only us and chimps have periods, strange correlation wouldn't you say, almost to much of a coincidence?
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free will doesnt exist if god knows the future, if he knows what you are going to do, how is that a choice? it was something you were going to do regardless, hence, already known.
That's hardly true. If I were to give a simple analogy, it would be similar to those old-school "Choose-your-own-adventure" books. The author of the book knows the outcome, no matter which option the reader takes.
I answered stellas questions, and GC, what are you talking about? offering up your daughters to be raped, asking for human sacrificies etc= immoral. Having an eternal punishment for a finite crime=immoral.
One, Lot did that out of cowardice. NOBODY ordered Lot to do so, not his visitors or anyone else.
Two, God didn't ask for any human sacrifice (as far as that silly reference to Jephthah is concerned. In fact, I don't recall the Lord asking him for ANY SACRIFICE, whatsoever).
Three, notwithstanding the debate as to whether the punishment awaiting those who reject the Lord is eternal or not, who exactly says that it's immoral?
It's what I said earlier, without some standard of right or wrong, you have no basis on which to declare something moral vs. immoral. And, neither do these silly Bible critics or "thinking atheists".
I know i dont get morality from your god because i am more moral, i wouldnt create man and then kill everyone when i wasnt happy with my creation, when i can apparently do anything i choose, the last option would be killing everyone. LoL. what about those who lived before christ, they were created to be sent to hell, why did god wait so long to create humans? he sat around for 14 billion years then decided to create humans. Your story stretches credulity and makes no sense at all.
Listen to what you just said. "The last option would be killing everyone". That means (1) that would be an option, nonetheless and; (2) you've conveniently forgotten the opportunities that Israel had to repent, prior to judgment hitting them.
Again, what happens when Israel (or any other nation) CONTINUES to violate your laws, your covenant, your guidelines that you've established with them, jeopardizing other people's lives, in the process?
why do you need external to have morality, it is a inborn thing that we all have evolved with, something that serves us quite well in fact. Things also change, it might be cool to condem homos back in the bible, but less and less so nowadays, right and wrong are relative, and movable. Morality is also studied in evolutionary theory quite extensively. Animals show morals in fact, bonobos show many human characteristics, our homology is alike, our genetics are alike, shit only us and chimps have periods, strange correlation wouldn't you say, almost to much of a coincidence?
IF morality were inborn, you wouldn't have to teach your kids manners. You wouldn't have to teach them ethics or civics.
The simple fact is that you MUST do so, else risk having thoroughbred-brats, running amok in your house.
If morality is simply relative, then it's OK if I rob you at gunpoint, as long as I can justify it in my own mind. After all, that "Thou Shalt Not Steal" is so old and outdated by your standards.
And, should you get married, your wife shouldn't be expected to remain faithful to you in the least. If she wants to screw the poolboy or the mailman, that's fine, per your standards of "movable" morality.
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That's hardly true. If I were to give a simple analogy, it would be similar to those old-school "Choose-your-own-adventure" books. The author of the book knows the outcome, no matter which option the reader takes.
failed analogy, the book writer does not know which option will be chosen nor did he create the person doing the chosing. The author does not know the outcome, because he has to wait for the person to choose, god however, knows the outcome, making choice a veil that the person beleives to exist.
something is wrong with my computer, the quote function wont work and its taking forever for my replies to post. so forgive me if this comes out fugged up.
"One, Lot did that out of cowardice. NOBODY ordered Lot to do so, not his visitors or anyone else.
Two, God didn't ask for any human sacrifice (as far as that silly reference to Jephthah is concerned. In fact, I don't recall the Lord asking him for ANY SACRIFICE, whatsoever).
Three, notwithstanding the debate as to whether the punishment awaiting those who reject the Lord is eternal or not, who exactly says that it's immoral?
It's what I said earlier, without some standard of right or wrong, you have no basis on which to declare something moral vs. immoral. And, neither do these silly Bible critics or "thinking atheists"."
hell is said to be an eternal fire, the pope said so himself recently, he said, "hells fires are real and they are eternal". It is immoral because being punished forever for something that happened once is a gross misconduct, there is no room for recovery, the punishment does not fit the crime a million times over. Also, the crime is petty, not accepting jesus? really, for eternal torture? ya that seems moral to me. But i could rape a baby, kill ten woman, eat three kids then repent and become born again and avoid that fate? ya real moral and rational.I'll have to read up on lot, I have just heard the story being read, and read the story on the internet.
"Listen to what you just said. "The last option would be killing everyone". That means (1) that would be an option, nonetheless and; (2) you've conveniently forgotten the opportunities that Israel had to repent, prior to judgment hitting them.
Again, what happens when Israel (or any other nation) CONTINUES to violate your laws, your covenant, your guidelines that you've established with them, jeopardizing other people's lives, in the process?"
sure there are infinite options if i was all-powerful aren't there? and of the many i can think of killing everyone seems ridiculous especially if you consider god knew the outcome before he created them, how sick is that?
WRT irasel, i would just change there minds, create new rules, move the goalposts, im all powerful am i not? people do that now a days, violate rules, large groups of people do, we don't kill them all, even teh innocent children like god ordered to do. Killing innocent children is terrible no matter what the crimes of the parents. It would be like us hanging sadam husseins daughter alongside him because her father was evil, makes sense, amirite ::)
"IF morality were inborn, you wouldn't have to teach your kids manners. You wouldn't have to teach them ethics or civics."
your going to have to define morality, because manners are not what i consider morals to a point. It is known in psychology that as infants age they gain a sense of right or wrong, this is based on altruism and reciprocity, i know its wrong to punch you in the face for no reason because it hurts, and i wouldn't liked being punched in the face. Thus, random face punching is immoral, however, if you hit me i feel as though i should hit you back, reciprocity at it's finest, works like a charm for almost all moral things. Try one.
"The simple fact is that you MUST do so, else risk having thoroughbred-brats, running amok in your house."
Not sure about that, the environment, school, peers and genetics all play a part in a persons moral fabric. If you have a kid with Borderline personality disorder, ADHD, you are going to have a hard time instilling morals on them, it's the nature vs nuture debate, it's obvious that it is a conglomerate.
"If morality is simply relative, then it's OK if I rob you at gunpoint, as long as I can justify it in my own mind. After all, that "Thou Shalt Not Steal" is so old and outdated by your standards."
didn't say that, strawman, read my example above. I wouldn't rob you at gunpoint because i dont want to be robbed at gunpoint, it would inflict pain on you, decrease my social network, possibly remove me from the group as no one would trust me. This simple explanation trumps your explanation as god as the source of morality. I know this because your god is immoral, he does things that many disagree with, if he was the authority it wouldnt be that way.
"And, should you get married, your wife shouldn't be expected to remain faithful to you in the least. If she wants to screw the poolboy or the mailman, that's fine, per your standards of "movable" morality.""
again, if she wants a stable income from me, father to her children, a realiable life then why would she do that. Such simple explanations to things you christians seem dumbfounded about. Morality serves an evolutionary purpose, it's obvious I just outlined it three seperate times, i also outlined why killing everyone while knowing everything, and being able to do everything is wrong.
The fact that he had to kill everyone because he was displeased shows me that god is not perfect. He knew the future, yet still carried on then decided he didn't like his work and corrected the MISTAKE. perfection wouldn't make mistakes, so it's either he is sick and likes killing, or is not all powerful and all knowing. I left out the most important option, he doesn't exist, the flood never happened and the bible is fiction.
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failed analogy, the book writer does not know which option will be chosen nor did he create the person doing the chosing. The author does not know the outcome, because he has to wait for the person to choose, god however, knows the outcome, making choice a veil that the person beleives to exist.
something is wrong with my computer, the quote function wont work and its taking forever for my replies to post. so forgive me if this comes out fugged up.
The analogy wasn't perfect. But it makes the point. Your claim that there's no free will, simple because the created goes against the Creator's wishes makes no sense.
hell is said to be an eternal fire, the pope said so himself recently, he said, "hells fires are real and they are eternal". It is immoral because being punished forever for something that happened once is a gross misconduct, there is no room for recovery, the punishment does not fit the crime a million times over. Also, the crime is petty, not accepting jesus? really, for eternal torture? ya that seems moral to me. But i could rape a baby, kill ten woman, eat three kids then repent and become born again and avoid that fate? ya real moral and rational.I'll have to read up on lot, I have just heard the story being read, and read the story on the internet.
The Pope said so himself....BIG DEAL!! It certainly wouldn't be the first time the Pope (or any other Catholic leader) made a statement which doesn't mesh with Scripture.
As for your rather strange analysis, what exactly makes a crime "petty"? You just claimed that morality is "movable". Therefore, what you just described (rape, killing ten women, eating children) could easily be re-defined as kosher, depending on who's making the rules.
sure there are infinite options if i was all-powerful aren't there? and of the many i can think of killing everyone seems ridiculous especially if you consider god knew the outcome before he created them, how sick is that?
But, you DID NOT leave destroying the Israelites off the table, did you? Again, what happens when you give Israel multiple chances and they continue in their wicked ways?
WRT irasel, i would just change there minds, create new rules, move the goalposts, im all powerful am i not? people do that now a days, violate rules, large groups of people do, we don't kill them all, even teh innocent children like god ordered to do. Killing innocent children is terrible no matter what the crimes of the parents. It would be like us hanging sadam husseins daughter alongside him because her father was evil, makes sense, amirite ::)
If you change their minds, guess what you've just done: Robbed them of their free will. Plus, what's to say that after you "move the goalposts", the Israelites won't continue to disobey you. Remember that the Lord was merciful to them (Moses interceded on their behalf) and they returned His mercy with rebellion.
your going to have to define morality, because manners are not what i consider morals to a point. It is known in psychology that as infants age they gain a sense of right or wrong, this is based on altruism and reciprocity, i know its wrong to punch you in the face for no reason because it hurts, and i wouldn't liked being punched in the face. Thus, random face punching is immoral, however, if you hit me i feel as though i should hit you back, reciprocity at it's finest, works like a charm for almost all moral things. Try one.
Infants don't gain a sense of right and wrong. Their parents TEACH them that sense of right and wrong.
Not sure about that, the environment, school, peers and genetics all play a part in a persons moral fabric. If you have a kid with Borderline personality disorder, ADHD, you are going to have a hard time instilling morals on them, it's the nature vs nuture debate, it's obvious that it is a conglomerate.
Indeed they do. But, ultimately, the parents play the most significant role in the development of their children. In any event, SOMEONE is teaching them right and wrong.
didn't say that, strawman, read my example above. I wouldn't rob you at gunpoint because i dont want to be robbed at gunpoint, it would inflict pain on you, decrease my social network, possibly remove me from the group as no one would trust me. This simple explanation trumps your explanation as god as the source of morality. I know this because your god is immoral, he does things that many disagree with, if he was the authority it wouldnt be that way.
Oh really!! Ask a rapist if he wants to be raped himself. Even robbers don't like having their stuff stolen from them. That however doesn't prevent them from committing their crimes. Even people who cheat on their spouses would trip if they found out their spouses were creeping on them.
So, the idea that people don't do bad things, because they don't want those bad things happening to them doesn't quite wash.
again, if she wants a stable income from me, father to her children, a realiable life then why would she do that. Such simple explanations to things you christians seem dumbfounded about. Morality serves an evolutionary purpose, it's obvious I just outlined it three seperate times, i also outlined why killing everyone while knowing everything, and being able to do everything is wrong.
For the same reason that anyone else might do such a thing: They're selfish, put themselves above others, and they don't think they'll get caught.
The fact that he had to kill everyone because he was displeased shows me that god is not perfect. He knew the future, yet still carried on then decided he didn't like his work and corrected the MISTAKE. perfection wouldn't make mistakes, so it's either he is sick and likes killing, or is not all powerful and all knowing. I left out the most important option, he doesn't exist, the flood never happened and the bible is fiction.
The fact is that He didn't kill everyone. He offered them grace and an opportunity to repent of their actions. Yes, He knows the future. But, He gives them free will to do what they wish, INCLUDING disobey Him, a concept you don't seem to grasp.
Your claim about the Bible being fiction is almost as laughable as the vidieos you and TA put up, especially since throughout history Bible skeptics have continue to make such claims, only to end up embarassed when historical and archaelogical evidence support Biblical accounts.
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The analogy wasn't perfect. But it makes the point. Your claim that there's no free will, simple because the created goes against the Creator's wishes makes no sense.
not what i said, read it again, you misunderstand.
Fuck i still cant quote while replying. sorry.
"The Pope said so himself....BIG DEAL!! It certainly wouldn't be the first time the Pope (or any other Catholic leader) made a statement which doesn't mesh with Scripture.
As for your rather strange analysis, what exactly makes a crime "petty"? You just claimed that morality is "movable". Therefore, what you just described (rape, killing ten women, eating children) could easily be re-defined as kosher, depending on who's making the rules."
i believe i stated our sense of right and wrong changes, we have to define morality if we are to continue. It was once right to own slaves, the bible was cool with it, so was god, it is clearly wrong. Why? because i wouldn't like to be a slave and blah blah, just keep using my example and you can pretty much figure out if something is right or wrong.
"But, you DID NOT leave destroying the Israelites off the table, did you? Again, what happens when you give Israel multiple chances and they continue in their wicked ways?"
its an option, of course it is, so is blowing up the universe if im god. I would never kill innocent children.
"If you change their minds, guess what you've just done: Robbed them of their free will. Plus, what's to say that after you "move the goalposts", the Israelites won't continue to disobey you. Remember that the Lord was merciful to them (Moses interceded on their behalf) and they returned His mercy with rebellion."
im not convinced he gave them freewill, how could they have free will if he already knew what they would do? they have the illusion of choice, but its already pre-determined, otherwise god wouldn't know the outcome in advance.
"Infants don't gain a sense of right and wrong. Their parents TEACH them that sense of right and wrong"
this is wrong, science has shown multiple times that as children age they gain a sense of perspective, they gain empathy and act accordingly. Just like they gain object permenance, they gain a sense of "other" and start to reciprocate things and show empathy. parents no doubt help in the process for sure. I geuss the first hominids had no sense of right or wrong until the bible came around right?
"Oh really!! Ask a rapist if he wants to be raped himself. Even robbers don't like having their stuff stolen from them. That however doesn't prevent them from committing their crimes. Even people who cheat on their spouses would trip if they found out their spouses were creeping on them.
So, the idea that people don't do bad things, because they don't want those bad things happening to them doesn't quite wash."
ya it does, works perfectly. Thats why society has deemed it wrong, it would crush our civilization if it were acceptable, of course people will try to break the rules, natural selection is held at bay in our advanced society. we are abit more advanced then hunter gatherers, people dont need each other as much, hence the realms of right and wrong may be shifted.
"The fact is that He didn't kill everyone. He offered them grace and an opportunity to repent of their actions. Yes, He knows the future. But, He gives them free will to do what they wish, INCLUDING disobey Him, a concept you don't seem to grasp.
Your claim about the Bible being fiction is almost as laughable as the vidieos you and TA put up, especially since throughout history Bible skeptics have continue to make such claims, only to end up embarassed when historical and archaelogical evidence support Biblical accounts."
he knew they would disobey then, you dont seem to grasp the concept of knowing the future, or all-knowing. If they suprised him then he can't be considered god. Ya, noahs ark was real, the kodiak bears swam across the atlantic, the canivores didn't eat for the whole trip, noah really was 600 years old ::), there really are talking snakes, people do rise from the dead, dude really lived inside a whale LMAO.
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not what i said, read it again, you misunderstand.
Fuck i still cant quote while replying. sorry.
Try copying my quote message, replacing my name with yours. That might help.
i believe i stated our sense of right and wrong changes, we have to define morality if we are to continue. It was once right to own slaves, the bible was cool with it, so was god, it is clearly wrong. Why? because i wouldn't like to be a slave and blah blah, just keep using my example and you can pretty much figure out if something is right or wrong.
One, the discussion of Biblical "slavery" was discussed in another thread. So, I won't rehash it here. Nonetheless, I used your examples and they don't work. You can easily justify doing wrong to others without having that wrong done to yourself.
its an option, of course it is, so is blowing up the universe if im god. I would never kill innocent children.
So, what's to be done with them? Either they get assimilated into another culture or they are left to starve and die. Either way, they pay some sort of price for their parents' transgressions.
And, of course, if you're a proponent of modern warfare (i.e. dropping the A-Bomb on Japan), you do so KNOWING that there will be collateral damage.
im not convinced he gave them freewill, how could they have free will if he already knew what they would do? they have the illusion of choice, but its already pre-determined, otherwise god wouldn't know the outcome in advance.
You continue the false premise of free will can only be done, absent of an omniscient being.
this is wrong, science has shown multiple times that as children age they gain a sense of perspective, they gain empathy and act accordingly. Just like they gain object permenance, they gain a sense of "other" and start to reciprocate things and show empathy. parents no doubt help in the process for sure. I geuss the first hominids had no sense of right or wrong until the bible came around right?
Common sense says that children HAVE PARENTS, who teach them what is right and what is wrong. They don't get that on their own. Kids don't raise themselves. They are brought up (for better or worse) by their folks.
ya it does, works perfectly. Thats why society has deemed it wrong, it would crush our civilization if it were acceptable, of course people will try to break the rules, natural selection is held at bay in our advanced society. we are abit more advanced then hunter gatherers, people dont need each other as much, hence the realms of right and wrong may be shifted.
Society answers to a higher power. Case in point, there are plenty of countries that have chattel slavery and commit crimes, similar to the human sacrifices that ancient socieities did. In their "societies", their actions are right. Who are you or anyone else to say that what they're doing is wrong?
he knew they would disobey then, you dont seem to grasp the concept of knowing the future, or all-knowing. If they suprised him then he can't be considered god. Ya, noahs ark was real, the kodiak bears swam across the atlantic, the canivores didn't eat for the whole trip, noah really was 600 years old ::), there really are talking snakes, people do rise from the dead, dude really lived inside a whale LMAO.
Funny!!! I've been doing much the same, regarding the mess you've proposed: Sentient life came from nothing and nowhere, just randomly developed into this critter, that critter, and somehow ended up being man (who, on his own accord, with no guildance whatsoever, determined right and wrong).
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*LOL*. I'll address the future issue, it seems to be a stumbler. Not to mention, McWay has covered ALL the other points, multiple times.
The future can be altered, eh? For instance, God can look at Necrosis, and say "Necrosis at 10:45p.m. will make a medicated induced, pseudo-logical post, regarding his/her mental condition". Well, God can do two things in this situation.
A. Not interfere with that decision.
B. Change Necrosis mind, therefore altering his/her decision, stripping Necrosis of his/her free will AND ALTERING the future.
However, Necrosis, can ALSO change his/her mind AT 10:44.999999996p.m., thereby altering the future, once again. Difference, being, Necrosis did so by FREE WILL.
First of all just because God CAN know the future, doesn't mean He chooses to do so. He can CHOOSE not to utilize that power, can he not? But, even if God CHOOSES not to restrain from looking into the future, does not mean, God pre-arranged the future. Make sense.
Government_Controlled/DEA_AGENT
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*LOL*. I'll address the future issue, it seems to be a stumbler. Not to mention, McWay has covered ALL the other points, multiple times.
The future can be altered, eh? For instance, God can look at Necrosis, and say "Necrosis at 10:45p.m. will make a medicated induced, pseudo-logical post, regarding his/her mental condition". Well, God can do two things in this situation.
A. Not interfere with that decision.
B. Change Necrosis mind, therefore altering his/her decision, stripping Necrosis of his/her free will AND ALTERING the future.
However, Necrosis, can ALSO change his/her mind AT 10:44.999999996p.m., thereby altering the future, once again. Difference, being, Necrosis did so by FREE WILL.
First of all just because God CAN know the future, doesn't mean He chooses to do so. He can CHOOSE not to utilize that power, can he not? But, even if God CHOOSES not to restrain from looking into the future, does not mean, God pre-arranged the future. Make sense.
Government_Controlled/DEA_AGENT
so what your saying is that god may not know the future, that what i do because of free will is completely new to him? If you know the future that indicates you know the outcome, what will happen, regardless of the choice, the choice is an illusion. Sure he could suspend his power i geuss, i dont know, we are speculating completely. The only way we have free will is if god suspends his power to see the future, this is a branch of theology, the name escapes me now.
My posts are 100% logical, read them again if you are having trouble keeping up. It's one way or the other. He knows the future or does not, or the speculation that he can inhibit himself. If he inhibits himself or does not know the future then him having to kill everyone in the flood, along with other things like miracles indicates a mistake. This admittance indicates that he is not perfect, as perfect beings wouldn't make mistakes, perfection doesn't have the capacity for being imperfect, it's completely illogical in fact.
"Necrosis at 10:45p.m. will make a medicated induced, pseudo-logical post, regarding his/her mental condition". = win, this actually had me laughing ;D
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Try copying my quote message, replacing my name with yours. That might help.
Funny!!! I've been doing much the same, regarding the mess you've proposed: Sentient life came from nothing and nowhere, just randomly developed into this critter, that critter, and somehow ended up being man (who, on his own accord, with no guildance whatsoever, determined right and wrong).
i know how to quote, the function isn't working, didn't think of doing that. thanks.
The bottom paragraph is a gross misrepresentation of something, or what i don't know. Who says life came from nothing? that nothing ever existed, that things are random. It's almost like your saying, all this is to complex for me to understand so god did it. Perhaps studying some cosmology would clear things up for you, i have already shown multiple examples of speciation or micro evolution. It's a fact, why do you deny it so vehemently? why not go where the evidence leads us?
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First of all just because God CAN know the future, doesn't mean He chooses to do so. He can CHOOSE not to utilize that power, can he not? But, even if God CHOOSES not to restrain from looking into the future, does not mean, God pre-arranged the future. Make sense.
Government_Controlled/DEA_AGENT
OMG, logic fail in full effect. How many unfounded assumptions can one make into something that is unknown?
usually arguments progress on axioms that are self evident. Fucking alpha and omega, beginning and the end, he just doesn't know what happens to get to that end. He lives in eternity, what ever the fuck that means, and does things there like create the universe, wait? how can something act in eternity, thats a temporal term, fuck it lets just go with it, where did he get the universe material? he made it from nothing........gasp. He is benevolent, but he created this spot for you to burn FOREVER because he loves you. He is so powerful that he can stop his own power which is without bound, wait, fuck it lets roll with it. He is all-knowing, unless he chooses not to know, but wait doesn't that mean he doesn't know something, fuck it, for the sake of saving face we won't acknowledge the logical hiccups along the way lets just obsfurcate the argument with strawmen and false accusations, so everything came from nothing then, just randomly, no purpose or nothing, then monkeys fell out of trees and had a human baby.
this is your template. It's hilarious to see the responses you guys think are rational, i don't want there not to be a god, but it doesn't make anysense, perhaps it's not suppose to but to defend some of this shit is too funny.
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OMG, logic fail in full effect. How many unfounded assumptions can one make into something that is unknown?
usually arguments progress on axioms that are self evident. Fucking alpha and omega, beginning and the end, he just doesn't know what happens to get to that end. He lives in eternity, what ever the fuck that means, and does things there like create the universe, wait? how can something act in eternity, thats a temporal term, fuck it lets just go with it, where did he get the universe material? he made it from nothing........gasp. He is benevolent, but he created this spot for you to burn FOREVER because he loves you. He is so powerful that he can stop his own power which is without bound, wait, fuck it lets roll with it. He is all-knowing, unless he chooses not to know, but wait doesn't that mean he doesn't know something, fuck it, for the sake of saving face we won't acknowledge the logical hiccups along the way lets just obsfurcate the argument with strawmen and false accusations, so everything came from nothing then, just randomly, no purpose or nothing, then monkeys fell out of trees and had a human baby.
this is your template. It's hilarious to see the responses you guys think are rational, i don't want there not to be a god, but it doesn't make anysense, perhaps it's not suppose to but to defend some of this shit is too funny.
Huh? God can't choose? ::)
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Huh? God can't choose? ::)
read my post, it's not logical. If you claim he is all powerful, how can he negate his powers? wouldn't that make him not all-powerful. Your arguments are a maze of circular logic. To move forward you need to define the attributes of your god, so we can have a meaningful discussion, because you don't see to get the point. Its like asking whats outside the universe, what happened before time, or where does infinite end. They are paradoxes that make no sense. Just like an all powerful being who can sometimes not be all powerful.
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read my post, it's not logical. If you claim he is all powerful, how can he negate his powers? wouldn't that make him not all-powerful.
*sigh*. I guess I'll entertain this, AGAIN. First of all, I don't claim anything. God does. So, if I could bench 1000lbs, RAW, ANYTIME of the DAY,YEAR,WEEK could I CHOOSE NOT TO bench that same weight at some time? If I did make this decision, would it mean, I'm NOT ALL powerful on the bench press? :'(
Your arguments are a maze of circular logic.
I'm pretty sure this is a typo! Dismissed!
To move forward you need to define the attributes of your god, so we can have a meaningful discussion.
Work in progress! First, we have to get past 101 Bible class! Hang in there, there is still HOPE!
Government_Control/Dea_Agent
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*sigh*. I guess I'll entertain this, AGAIN. First of all, I don't claim anything. God does. So, if I could bench 1000lbs, RAW, ANYTIME of the DAY,YEAR,WEEK could I CHOOSE NOT TO bench that same weight at some time? If I did make this decision, would it mean, I'm NOT ALL powerful on the bench press? :'(
I'm pretty sure this is a typo! Dismissed!
Work in progress! First, we have to get past 101 Bible class! Hang in there, there is still HOPE!
Government_Control/Dea_Agent
1. yes, how can something be all powerful, yet negate the power. It doesn't follow
2. you're, i don't care about grammar, nor spell check unlike some people. If i took the time to proof read i'm sure they would be fine,until then move along.
3. i would never study the bible, why would i? It contains nothing i can't get from daily living, nor any wisdom that hasn't been shit out in other religions, ideologies and philosophies.
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1. yes, how can something be all powerful, yet negate the power. It doesn't follow
2. you're, i don't care about grammar, nor spell check unlike some people. If i took the time to proof read i'm sure they would be fine,until then move along.
3. i would never study the bible, why would i? It contains nothing i can't get from daily living, nor any wisdom that hasn't been shit out in other religions, ideologies and philosophies.
*sigh*. You just need a flat out basic logic and reasoning class. What CAN'T God do? Come on "genius". There is an answer! What's with 1,2, 3 b.s.? It's a SIMPLE Simon, answer, you numnut. this is getting aggravating!.
McWay, go ahead and tell em. Please, this guy/gal is worse than all! *LOL*. I think you are doing rec. drugs as well.
Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent
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*sigh*. You just need a flat out basic logic and reasoning class. What CAN'T God do? Come on "genius". There is an answer! What's with 1,2, 3 b.s.? It's a SIMPLE Simon, answer, you numnut. this is getting aggravating!.
McWay, go ahead and tell em. Please, this guy/gal is worse than all! *LOL*. I think you are doing rec. drugs as well.
Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent
1.well what type of answer are you looking for? a theological one or a answer based on the bible, wrt to both you are wrong,you don't even know the bible.
2.Stella provided to answers, so how is there one? are you getting tired of this beating yet?
3. he can't be omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent all at the same time, besides the other provided examples if he is all loving (benevolent, which the bible claims he is in the bible) then he cannot perform evil acts, or things that are not altruistic, negating his omnipotence, easy enough huh? You want more things your god cannot do? shit, heal an amputee was a good one in my book, but thats to practical and obvious, but the above argument should shit on your notion of what can't god do.
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1.well what type of answer are you looking for? a theological one or a answer based on the bible, wrt to both you are wrong,you don't even know the bible.
2.Stella provided to answers, so how is there one? are you getting tired of this beating yet?
3. he can't be omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent all at the same time, besides the other provided examples if he is all loving (benevolent, which the bible claims he is in the bible) then he cannot perform evil acts, or things that are not altruistic, negating his omnipotence, easy enough huh? You want more things your god cannot do? shit, heal an amputee was a good one in my book, but thats to practical and obvious, but the above argument should shit on your notion of what can't god do.
Refereed to the "What can't God do".
Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent
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Refereed to the "What can't God do".
Government_Controlled/Dea_Agent
aka dodge, dodge, dodge confuse, redirect, annoy.
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well thankgod more christians dont read the bible
look what happened to muslims that read the koran!
same god both these people yanno