Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Anabolic Outlaw on February 23, 2010, 08:45:30 PM
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As gym owner I feel compelled to share this story with you. Many of us have spent a lot of years in the weight room and take things for granted.
I, for one... use a thumbless grip when I bench press. That's my personal preference.
There have been times when I have come off the rack with the weights and have pulled forward just a little bit too much. The momentum causes the bar to want to continue moving forward and with a thumbless grip that can turn into a disaster in the blink of an eye.
BE CAREFUL YOU GUYS!
Remember, the devil wants to snuff your life out before you turn to Jesus.
Jesus said: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
– John 10:10 (KJV)
Please read the following story. This incident occurred just two days ago, 25 miles from where I own my gym.
Granville grad on life support after weightlifting accident
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20100223/COMMUNITIES02/100223006/Granville-grad-on-life-support-after-weightlifting-accident
NEWARK — A Granville High School graduate remains in critical condition at Grant Medical Center with injuries sustained in a weightlifting accident Monday, but his father is optimistic a small step toward recovery has been made.
Chris Harmon, 20, of Granville, is on life support at Grant Medical Center after the accident at The Advantage Club, 1845 W. Main St., in which the 250 pounds Chris was bench pressing slipped from his hands and landed on his face. A spotter was not present, Harmon said.
“Now he is still in critical condition, still on life support, but his face is moved around to where it should be,” Scott said Tuesday afternoon.
Chris had been scheduled for a nine-hour surgery Tuesday morning to stop his bleeding, but the surgery was postponed when it was discovered he had fluid in his lungs.
Still, doctors began reconstructive surgery on his face and were able to seal the bleeding arteries.
Chris’s nose is totally shattered and his jawbone displaced, Scott said. He will need to have titanium plates put in his jaw and both cheeks. His eyesocket will need to be rebuilt.
With that in mind, Scott said, the progress still is encouraging.
“I think he crossed one bridge. I think there’s many more to go,” he said.
QUICK ASSISTANCE
The accident occurred after Chris had just beat his previous record for the bench press, topping out at 420 or 430 pounds.
While he was lifting that weight, he had a spotter assisting him, said Kevin Rowe, owner of The Advantage Club.
Chris proceeded to a decline press to bench 250 pounds when the weight slipped from his hands and landed on his face, smashing his cheek bones and severing two arteries.
Chris’s head was on a downward slant, which is why the weight hit him in the face and not the chest, Rowe said.
Advantage Club staff carried Chris face down to the ambulance, a move that Scott was told saved Chris’s life by preventing the blood from draining into his lungs.
“We are very fortunate that there were people in the weight room that knew what to do and called 911 quickly,” Rowe said.
An emergency medical ambulance transported Chris to Grant Medical Center because it had been too foggy for a helicopter to fly, Scott said.
Support System
The family has received an outpouring of support from community members and friends, Scott said.
“All our friends, all his friends have been really supportive. Everybody praying and all the bodybuilders from the gym coming over and calling,” he said.
Chris is a Granville High School graduate who played football at Heidelberg College. He transferred to the Newark campus of Ohio State University after an injury and continued to pursue bodybuilding, which he has been doing since age 16 or 17, Scott said.
“That was his life, he was devoted to it,” said Patrick Hofer, a high school friend. “Rarely did he ever miss a day in the gym.”
Hofer now lives in New York but he graduated from Granville High School with Chris. The two played football together and spent hours lifting in the weight room.
“He’s a really good kid, we had a lot of fun together,” Hofer said.
Chris has been a regular at The Advantage Club for the last three years, Rowe said.
“We consider him one of our fitness family,” Rowe said. “He is a genuinely nice young man.”
'Freak accident'
The question of why Chris was lifting without a spotter is unanswered for the moment, Scott said, as the family is foremost concerned with their son’s survival.
Having a spotter is a personal choice and The Advantage Club has staff members in the weight room to act as spotters if needed, Rowe said.
When Chris was benching the 250 pounds, he was using a Jones Machine, a machine with safety features for solo weight lifters, Rowe said.
“He was working with a weight he could easily handle,” Rowe said. “I can’t describe it as more than a freak accident.”
The Advantage Club has never had an accident like this before, Rowe said.
“What happened to him, it was a freak thing,” Hofer said. “He’s the strongest kid I know.”
The Harmon family is hoping to set up a trust fund for Chris soon, Scott said.
“Our thoughts and prayers are with Chris and his family,” Rowe said. “This is awful for anyone to have to go through.”
Licking County Family YMCA Director Ed Bohren said Monday’s accident has prompted the YMCA to review its weightlifting protocols to make sure all safety measures are being taken.
“Any time there’s an accident or incident that’s close to home, you want to make sure that you are doing the right thing,” he said.
The YMCA has had no major weightlifting injuries, he said.
Harmon’s story shares similarities with a September incident in which University of Southern California tailback Stafon Johnson dropped a weight bar on his throat while bench pressing.
Johnson underwent several surgeries but has since recovered.
UPDATE
Details on 10TV News HD Video
http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2010/02/23/story-newark-weight-lifter-crushed.html?sid=102
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shut the fuck up bitch.
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a similar accident happened to a star player at ucla recently too
very scary
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shut the fuck up bitch.
clearly a man who knows the correct responses
I applaud you sir and wish you could teach me
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BE CAREFUL YOU GUYS!
Remember, the devil wants to snuff your life out before you turn to Jesus.
Jesus said: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
– John 10:10 (KJV)
You are SO correct. Jesus exists. Look, he's right here on a tree.
:o :o
(http://sitelife.app.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/6/bbced18a-6ed2-4eb2-863f-9bf05a98b27d.Large.jpg)
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I LOVE SATAN
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Is there some physical benefit to the thumbless grip? I never understood why people use it.
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shut the fuck up bitch.
LOL
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(http://brian.carnell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/jesus_brb.jpg)
(http://jaysolomon.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/jesus.jpg)
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Is there some physical benefit to the thumbless grip? I never understood why people use it.
I PREFER WRAPPING MY THUMB ROUND MY CAWK WHEN I RUB ONE OUT , NEVER TRYED A THUMBLESS
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Is there some physical benefit to the thumbless grip? I never understood why people use it.
It enables you to supinate the wrists/arms during the movement so that it's more agreeable to your shoulders if the conventional way is more painful.
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Is there some physical benefit to the thumbless grip? I never understood why people use it.
Is there some physical benefit to the thumbless grip? I never understood why people use it.
i do it because i saw dennis james do it
i think its better for he's wrists too..
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shut the fuck up bitch.
Are you saying Analprobing Outlaw kneels in front of his priest every chance he gets?
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shut the fuck up bitch.
X2
Nothign worse than an asshole pushing religion.
How would you like it if I was pushing atheism on you there anabolic asshole?
(http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/upload/2007/07/bible_truths.jpg)
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(http://funnywebjokes.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/1bible-spoiler.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1212/1398691230_1ce1fbbeb3.jpg)
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Analbumlick Outfag is a twink with no business at Getbig.
Be gone you fuck.
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I like this one
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I like this one
LOL LOL. That is awesome.
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I like this one:
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/232/religionkv0.png)
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As gym owner I feel compelled to share this story with you. Many of us have spent a lot of years in the weight room and take things for granted.
I, for one... use a thumbless grip when I bench press. That's my personal preference.
There have been times when I have come off the rack with the weights and have pulled forward just a little bit too much. The momentum causes the bar to want to continue moving forward and with a thumbless grip that can turn into a disaster in the blink of an eye.
BE CAREFUL YOU GUYS!
Remember, the devil wants to snuff your life out before you turn to Jesus.
Jesus said: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
– John 10:10 (KJV)
Please read the following story. This incident occurred just two days ago, 25 miles from where I own my gym.
Granville grad on life support after weightlifting accident
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20100223/COMMUNITIES02/100223006/Granville-grad-on-life-support-after-weightlifting-accident
NEWARK — A Granville High School graduate remains in critical condition at Grant Medical Center with injuries sustained in a weightlifting accident Monday, but his father is optimistic a small step toward recovery has been made.
Chris Harmon, 20, of Granville, is on life support at Grant Medical Center after the accident at The Advantage Club, 1845 W. Main St., in which the 250 pounds Chris was bench pressing slipped from his hands and landed on his face. A spotter was not present, Harmon said.
“Now he is still in critical condition, still on life support, but his face is moved around to where it should be,” Scott said Tuesday afternoon.
Chris had been scheduled for a nine-hour surgery Tuesday morning to stop his bleeding, but the surgery was postponed when it was discovered he had fluid in his lungs.
Still, doctors began reconstructive surgery on his face and were able to seal the bleeding arteries.
Chris’s nose is totally shattered and his jawbone displaced, Scott said. He will need to have titanium plates put in his jaw and both cheeks. His eyesocket will need to be rebuilt.
With that in mind, Scott said, the progress still is encouraging.
“I think he crossed one bridge. I think there’s many more to go,” he said.
QUICK ASSISTANCE
The accident occurred after Chris had just beat his previous record for the bench press, topping out at 420 or 430 pounds.
While he was lifting that weight, he had a spotter assisting him, said Kevin Rowe, owner of The Advantage Club.
Chris proceeded to a decline press to bench 250 pounds when the weight slipped from his hands and landed on his face, smashing his cheek bones and severing two arteries.
Chris’s head was on a downward slant, which is why the weight hit him in the face and not the chest, Rowe said.
Advantage Club staff carried Chris face down to the ambulance, a move that Scott was told saved Chris’s life by preventing the blood from draining into his lungs.
“We are very fortunate that there were people in the weight room that knew what to do and called 911 quickly,” Rowe said.
An emergency medical ambulance transported Chris to Grant Medical Center because it had been too foggy for a helicopter to fly, Scott said.
Support System
The family has received an outpouring of support from community members and friends, Scott said.
“All our friends, all his friends have been really supportive. Everybody praying and all the bodybuilders from the gym coming over and calling,” he said.
Chris is a Granville High School graduate who played football at Heidelberg College. He transferred to the Newark campus of Ohio State University after an injury and continued to pursue bodybuilding, which he has been doing since age 16 or 17, Scott said.
“That was his life, he was devoted to it,” said Patrick Hofer, a high school friend. “Rarely did he ever miss a day in the gym.”
Hofer now lives in New York but he graduated from Granville High School with Chris. The two played football together and spent hours lifting in the weight room.
“He’s a really good kid, we had a lot of fun together,” Hofer said.
Chris has been a regular at The Advantage Club for the last three years, Rowe said.
“We consider him one of our fitness family,” Rowe said. “He is a genuinely nice young man.”
'Freak accident'
The question of why Chris was lifting without a spotter is unanswered for the moment, Scott said, as the family is foremost concerned with their son’s survival.
Having a spotter is a personal choice and The Advantage Club has staff members in the weight room to act as spotters if needed, Rowe said.
When Chris was benching the 250 pounds, he was using a Jones Machine, a machine with safety features for solo weight lifters, Rowe said.
“He was working with a weight he could easily handle,” Rowe said. “I can’t describe it as more than a freak accident.”
The Advantage Club has never had an accident like this before, Rowe said.
“What happened to him, it was a freak thing,” Hofer said. “He’s the strongest kid I know.”
The Harmon family is hoping to set up a trust fund for Chris soon, Scott said.
“Our thoughts and prayers are with Chris and his family,” Rowe said. “This is awful for anyone to have to go through.”
Licking County Family YMCA Director Ed Bohren said Monday’s accident has prompted the YMCA to review its weightlifting protocols to make sure all safety measures are being taken.
“Any time there’s an accident or incident that’s close to home, you want to make sure that you are doing the right thing,” he said.
The YMCA has had no major weightlifting injuries, he said.
Harmon’s story shares similarities with a September incident in which University of Southern California tailback Stafon Johnson dropped a weight bar on his throat while bench pressing.
Johnson underwent several surgeries but has since recovered.
Why does satan want to Fuck us up so much.
Also if some one if troble free is it cause satan is busy with other people.
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I like this one:
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/232/religionkv0.png)
Sums it up very nicely although I would add a " preach to the gullible"
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clearly a man who knows the correct responses
I applaud you sir and wish you could teach me
Very True. The exact response that was needed.
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ronnie does that grip style all the time.
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I like this one
Good stuff :D
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clearly a man who knows the correct responses
I applaud you sir and wish you could teach me
x2
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shut the fuck up bitch.
;D
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Article notes that the event was a 'freak accident.' Not much you do to prevent those, I'm thinking. ???
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It enables you to supinate the wrists/arms during the movement so that it's more agreeable to your shoulders if the conventional way is more painful.
good lord, thats just BEGGING for an accident. this story is just more proof
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I like this one
how about universal logic-
matter can neither be created nor destroyed, energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
where did all this matter and all this energy come from? had to come from somewhere.
and thats where science breaks down.
First A) Believe, then B) understand
science is the explanation of how everything that exists works. science is the description of the harmony of the universe.
God is the source of existance, and science explains the way in which God has set up our existance.
Have you ever heard "I think, therefore I am. " ?
the fact that you think is proof enough that you exist. the action of doubting your own existance proves that you do exist. because you must think to doubt, and you certainly cant think if you dont exist. ;)
Same logic. Now apply it to existance: I exist, so therefore God exists.
that argument probably will not hit you right now. but in a week or a few, remember me when you finally understand what ive written here. :)
when talking of God, words cant quite describe. language is finite. you can describe an infinite being with finite language, or in finite terms.
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That could be one of the poorest arguments i've ever heard.
I don't have to do shit to realize I exist. Its obvious. I exist, so therefore god exists? That's some unevolved chimpanzee logic there.
Religion is a silly idea. Talking snakes, Noahs Arc hoarding and holding two of every animal in the world.... how do you explain that Mr logic.
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Here's some string theory for ya.
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I spotted a guy benching 275 thumbless and it slipped from the start position and bounced off his chest. He was handling the weight just fine so i wasn't close enough to stop what happened. I was a kid and thought this mammoth of a man was going to kill me. He took off to the gym room weasing and left the gym immediately. I remember the weirdest noise coming from him as the weight hit his chest. I feel partially responsible. lol
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That could be one of the poorest arguments i've ever heard.
I don't have to do shit to realize I exist. Its obvious. I exist, so therefore god exists? That's some unevolved chimpanzee logic there.
Religion is a silly idea. Talking snakes, Noahs Arc hoarding and holding two of every animal in the world.... how do you explain that Mr logic.
I agree. That was flawed logic. His argument proves in no way the existence of a Deity.
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(http://s1.causes.com/photos/J6/7L/Mr/hV/Re/lr/D0vJ.jpg)
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how about universal logic-
matter can neither be created nor destroyed, energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
where did all this matter and all this energy come from? had to come from somewhere.
and thats where science breaks down.
First A) Believe, then B) understand
science is the explanation of how everything that exists works. science is the description of the harmony of the universe.
God is the source of existance, and science explains the way in which God has set up our existance.
Have you ever heard "I think, therefore I am. " ?
the fact that you think is proof enough that you exist. the action of doubting your own existance proves that you do exist. because you must think to doubt, and you certainly cant think if you dont exist. ;)
Same logic. Now apply it to existance: I exist, so therefore God exists.
that argument probably will not hit you right now. but in a week or a few, remember me when you finally understand what ive written here. :)
when talking of God, words cant quite describe. language is finite. you can describe an infinite being with finite language, or in finite terms.
That's very profound, but you're overestimating my intelligence if you think I can comprehend all of that in the span of just "a week or a few".
P.S: You have to understand or know something first (fully or at least partially), before you can believe in it. Because to believe in someone or something, you need to have an idea of what they are or it is capable of, so you can then believe accordingly. For example, you wouldn't believe a washing machine can let you travel places like your car can, because you know the washing machine's purpose is to wash clothes and therefore, know it's not capable of being driven around like a car.
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That grip style always looked feminine to me...
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you guys are so foolish...about 5 years ago I was training in my gym and a voice said to me to use dumbells and I have ever since. Not sure which deity it was but I defy you non believers to explain this 'devine revelation'
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Is there some physical benefit to the thumbless grip? I never understood why people use it.
It forces you to push with your pecs, relying less on forearms and triceps, IMO makes a huge difference
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god is a bodybuilder.
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Jesus loves to juice
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That's very profound, but you're overestimating my intelligence if you think I can comprehend all of that in the span of just "a week or a few".
P.S: You have to understand or know something first (fully or at least partially), before you can believe in it. Because to believe in someone or something, you need to have an idea of what they are or it is capable of, so you can then believe accordingly. For example, you wouldn't believe a washing machine can let you travel places like your car can, because you know the washing machine's purpose is to wash clothes and therefore, know it's not capable of being driven around like a car.
:) your arrogance amuses me
you dont understand God? every human being, regardless of whether or not they believe in God, does undersand God.
God is everything, God is infinite, God is the source of all existance.
Every human understands that idea.
:)
now, as for you taking a few weeks to understand the "argument" i laid out above.... its not that you ont realise what i said rtight now, its that you wont realise te brilliance of it untill later on. a few weeks? if your lucky. (the brilliance does not stem from me, the brilliance is within the laws of logic, and the principles of metaphysics. brilliance in exception.
majority of people never realise the nature of reality.
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BE CAREFUL YOU GUYS!
Remember, the devil wants to snuff your life out before you turn to Jesus.
Jesus said: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
– John 10:10 (KJV)
Please read the following story. This incident occurred just two days ago, 25 miles from where I own my gym.
Granville grad on life support after weightlifting accident
Fuck you
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you guys are so foolish...about 5 years ago I was training in my gym and a voice said to me to use dumbells and I have ever since. Not sure which deity it was but I defy you non believers to explain this 'devine revelation'
God Of Iron told you. He tends to do that once in a while. I have had God of Iron experience. A fe yeas ago (heavy breathing, sobbing), the God of Iron told me to stop waiting for the idiot on the dip/ab crunh bar/lat bat to finish doing his 30 minute 10 sets of 5 ab workout. The God of Iron told me to superset the pec deck with dips, and go to the stretch bar. It resulted in a huge pump.
The God of Iron told me if I follow this regime, that my soul would be cleansed and absolved of all sins.
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:) your arrogance amuses me
Says the 20 year old know it all, who claims he's better than all the established industry experts out there who are apparently "full of shit" and not as good as he is, who has very little credentials and even lesser experience, lol. You're not the first one of that kind nor will you be the last. That being said, I'm no different and there is nothing wrong with being head strong, as long as it doesn't turn you into a total asshole, which neither of us are.
As for the rest of your post, there's not much to say. The concept of God is so vague, undefined and wrapped around the just as complicated concept of infinity in so many ways, that anyone can say what they want on the subject and can neither be proven nor disproven with any assertion they make.
I pointed out a flaw in your metaphysics (belief precedes knowledge) and as is typical when you get beaten in an argument, you ignore it from then on and start on another thing altogether, while getting all defensive as hell. You say God is infinite and everything etc, but not every human "knows" that - nor do you either. It's what you believe and again, that assertion of yours can neither be proven nor disproven. There are tons of atheists out there who don't believe in any higher power at all and these kind of arguments have been around since the beginning of language.
So it's pointless to act like you've got the God concept all figured out or at least to enough of an extent where you can start talking down to others in regards to that subject. That's the realm of religion, not logic, which is what interest me.
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Where is Falcon when you need him? I guess he is standing and reading the Bible on a paintcan.
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Says the 20 year old know it all, who claims he's better than all the established industry experts out there who are apparently "full of shit" and not as good as he is, who has very little credentials and even lesser experience, lol. You're not the first one of that kind nor will you be the last. That being said, I'm no different and there is nothing wrong with being head strong, as long as it doesn't turn you into a total asshole, which neither of us are.
As for the rest of your post, there's not much to say. The concept of God is so vague, undefined and wrapped around the just as complicated concept of infinity in so many ways, that anyone can say what they want on the subject and can neither be proven nor disproven with any assertion they make.
I pointed out a flaw in your metaphysics (belief precedes knowledge) and as is typical when you get beaten in an argument, you ignore it from then on and start on another thing altogether, while getting all defensive as hell. You say God is infinite and everything etc, but not every human "knows" that - nor do you either. It's what you believe and again, that assertion of yours can neither be proven nor disproven. There are tons of atheists out there who don't believe in any higher power at all and these kind of arguments have been around since the beginning of language.
Ah, rock stars internet geniuses. Is there anything they don't know?
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Ah, rock stars internet geniuses. Is there anything they don't know?
The philosophy of us internet geniuses is simple - if you can Google it, you know it and know it better than anyone else out there ;D
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Says the 20 year old know it all, who claims he's better than all the established industry experts out there who are apparently "full of shit" and not as good as he is, who has very little credentials and even lesser experience, lol. You're not the first one of that kind nor will you be the last. That being said, I'm no different and there is nothing wrong with being head strong, as long as it doesn't turn you into a total asshole, which neither of us are.
As for the rest of your post, there's not much to say. The concept of God is so vague, undefined and wrapped around the just as complicated concept of infinity in so many ways, that anyone can say what they want on the subject and can neither be proven nor disproven with any assertion they make.
I pointed out a flaw in your metaphysics (belief precedes knowledge) and as is typical when you get beaten in an argument, you ignore it from then on and start on another thing altogether, while getting all defensive as hell. You say God is infinite and everything etc, but not every human "knows" that - nor do you either. It's what you believe and again, that assertion of yours can neither be proven nor disproven. There are tons of atheists out there who don't believe in any higher power at all and these kind of arguments have been around since the beginning of language.
So it's pointless to act like you've got the God concept all figured out or at least to enough of an extent where you can start talking down to others in regards to that subject. That's the realm of religion, not logic, which is what interest me.
Hit a front double bi at the pearly gates and God will back down.
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The philosophy of us internet geniuses is simple - if you can Google it, you know it and know it better than anyone else out there ;D
Googling is fine. We all use it. But knowing when to throw a washing machine into your thesis, and when not to...now that is the mark of true philosopher. ;D
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I don't need a spotter because i have a fucking power rack in my house.
When will these girls learn?
Even i dropped the bar towards my face the side bars would stop the bar from hitting my face.
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I don't need a spotter because i have a fucking power rack in my house.
When will these girls learn?
Even i dropped the bar towards my face the side bars would stop the bar from hitting my face.
Dropping the bar and 15s on each side won't cause any significant damage anyway so you're in the clear with or without safety pins.
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LOL, BF
Googling is fine. We all use it. But knowing when to throw a washing machine into your thesis, and when not to...now that is the mark of true philosopher. ;D
A wise old man once taught me the healing power of Shiatsu persuasive force of using washing machines in a metaphysical argument.
He sells T shirts outside the WTC Empire state building.
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Googling is fine. We all use it. But knowing when to throw a washing machine into your thesis, and when not to...now that is the mark of true philosopher. ;D
All ARISTOTLE.
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All ARISTOTLE.
You mean, of course, his pupil AMANA. ;D
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You mean, of course, his pupil AMANA. ;D
You got me I'm outed.
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I like this one
;D
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I don't need a spotter because i have a power rack in my house.
Even i dropped the bar towards my face the side bars would stop the bar from hitting my face.
The article states that he was using a Jones Machine.
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Says the 20 year old know it all, who claims he's better than all the established industry experts out there who are apparently "full of shit" and not as good as he is, who has very little credentials and even lesser experience, lol. You're not the first one of that kind nor will you be the last. That being said, I'm no different and there is nothing wrong with being head strong, as long as it doesn't turn you into a total asshole, which neither of us are.
As for the rest of your post, there's not much to say. The concept of God is so vague, undefined and wrapped around the just as complicated concept of infinity in so many ways, that anyone can say what they want on the subject and can neither be proven nor disproven with any assertion they make.
I pointed out a flaw in your metaphysics (belief precedes knowledge) and as is typical when you get beaten in an argument, you ignore it from then on and start on another thing altogether, while getting all defensive as hell. You say God is infinite and everything etc, but not every human "knows" that - nor do you either. It's what you believe and again, that assertion of yours can neither be proven nor disproven. There are tons of atheists out there who don't believe in any higher power at all and these kind of arguments have been around since the beginning of language.
So it's pointless to act like you've got the God concept all figured out or at least to enough of an extent where you can start talking down to others in regards to that subject. That's the realm of religion, not logic, which is what interest me.
It isnt a question of whether or not belief precedes knowledge or if knowledge precedes belief. it happens in different ways all the time. I gave an advise: " First Believe, then understand."
If your looking for evidence of creation through science, you will be very dissapointed. That person will find the idea of God hard to believe, with everything science is teaching nowdays. People are taught evolution and chemistry and mathematics, and they figure that these scientific ideas and facts somehow mean that God was and is completely "made up".
On the other hand, if one looks to science for a description of the mechanics of reality, first KNOWING that everything was created and has a purpouse, they will be amazed at the brilliance of existance, and wont have any problems at all with their faith.
I dont act like I have the God concept figured out, I act like I have a rational mind capable of understanding necessary truths. :)
And I would never talk down to anyone, its just not me.
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Faith/ religion overlooks the one unifying phrase common to all intelligent, high level intellectual debate conducted by genius minds from all around the world:
"Pics or it didn't happen"
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:) your arrogance amuses me
you dont understand God? every human being, regardless of whether or not they believe in God, does undersand God.
God is everything, God is infinite, God is the source of all existance.
Every human understands that idea.
:)
now, as for you taking a few weeks to understand the "argument" i laid out above.... its not that you ont realise what i said rtight now, its that you wont realise te brilliance of it untill later on. a few weeks? if your lucky. (the brilliance does not stem from me, the brilliance is within the laws of logic, and the principles of metaphysics. brilliance in exception.
majority of people never realise the nature of reality.
Very easy idea to understand. ::)
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Very easy idea to understand. ::)
you cant fully understand what it would "feel like" to be infinite, but you completely understand the idea of infinite.
to get you to start seeing what I am trying to get across... You agree that there is definitely some form of infinite in the universe? whether it be time, space, matter, whatever. theres infinite something. if there wasnt infinite something, then there would have never been anything, because it all had to come from somewhere in the beginning.
so just start with that. :)