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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on April 02, 2010, 12:06:54 PM
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Well, lots of Christians think that Jesus overturns Mosaic Law (which essentially is Shariah Law)
Can you explain this a little more please Luke? Thanks!
I have heard the term "Shariah Law" but so far only in relation to Islam.
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It's all based on the Old Testament tribal nomadic Bedouin-type tradition...
Not surprising really; Shariah (strict Muslim) Law is based on the Koran, which is (mostly) plagiarised from the Old Testament; the Old Testament is basically the tribal tradition originating in the Valley of Edom.
A little bit is stolen from every other Middle Eastern literary tradition they came into contact with:
-the Genesis story is lifted from the Babylonian creation myth
-monotheism (lifted fromZoroastrianism) was spreading through Egypt during Moses' time (Ahkenaten introduced monotheism as Egypt's state religion within a couple of years of the Moses story)
-Ezekial's ultra-strict monotheism (influenced by the spread of monotheistic godmen cults throughout the Mediterranean) led to a rewriting of the Torah which excluded Astarte (Yaheh's wife) and the Zodiac gods
-the civil war between the upper and lower kingdoms of Israel (Edom-centred old-tradition polytheisic Judaism versus Jerusalem-centred new-tradition monotheistic Judaism) led to another rewrite excluding the Edomite tradition completely
...so the winners wrote the laws: the nomadic, misogynistic, Draconian winners.
Hence, Shariah Law.
The Luke
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It's all based on the Old Testament tribal nomadic Bedouin-type tradition...
Not surprising really; Shariah (strict Muslim) Law is based on the Koran, which is (mostly) plagiarised from the Old Testament; the Old Testament is basically the tribal tradition originating in the Valley of Edom.
A little bit is stolen from every other Middle Eastern literary tradition they came into contact with:
-the Genesis story is lifted from the Babylonian creation myth
-monotheism (lifted fromZoroastrianism) was spreading through Egypt during Moses' time (Ahkenaten introduced monotheism as Egypt's state religion within a couple of years of the Moses story)
-Ezekial's ultra-strict monotheism (influenced by the spread of monotheistic godmen cults throughout the Mediterranean) led to a rewriting of the Torah which excluded Astarte (Yaheh's wife) and the Zodiac gods
-the civil war between the upper and lower kingdoms of Israel (Edom-centred old-tradition polytheisic Judaism versus Jerusalem-centred new-tradition monotheistic Judaism) led to another rewrite excluding the Edomite tradition completely
...so the winners wrote the laws: the nomadic, misogynistic, Draconian winners.
Hence, Shariah Law.
The Luke
Hence, you have a load of BS from you, Luke.
First, The Geneis account isn't lifted from the Babylonian anything, as the book of Genesis was written LONG BEFORE, the Israelites came under Babylonian bondage.
Montothiesm, through Moses' time? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! During Moses' time, and before, polytheism was ALIVE AND WELL. In fact, when the Isrealites left Egypt, God instructed SPECIFICALLY to stay from polytheism (hence the first FOUR commandments).
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Hence, you have a load of BS from you, Luke.
First, The Geneis account isn't lifted from the Babylonian anything, as the book of Genesis was written LONG BEFORE, the Israelites came under Babylonian bondage.
Montothiesm, through Moses' time? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! During Moses' time, and before, polytheism was ALIVE AND WELL. In fact, when the Isrealites left Egypt, God instructed SPECIFICALLY to stay from polytheism (hence the first FOUR commandments).
You don't even know you don't know.
The Luke
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You don't even know you don't know.
The Luke
I know you're full of bull and have proven it more times than I care to count. But, what else is new.
I almost forgot!! The laws of Israel were FAR MORE FAVORABLE to women than those of the Koran are or ever were. So, your misogynistic claims go up in smoke as well.
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Luke, did you type that post from old memories or did you do any recent research to find that info? If recent info do you have any links you can share?
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Luke, did you type that post from old memories or did you do any recent research to find that info? If recent info do you have any links you can share?
...does it matter if what I wrote is true? Or are you looking for an excuse to dismiss what I wrote?
McWay CLAIMS that what I write is untrue... he CLAIMS I fabricate my arguments... but that doesn't make it so.
He writes blatant lies; blatant propaganda; deliberate Orwellian doublespeak... "The laws of Israel were FAR MORE FAVOURABLE to women than those of the Koran are or ever were." ...I could copy and paste pages of scripture to counter such an assertion, but I know that every educated person reading his gibberish sees through it.
I have come to understand that correcting McWay is akin to arguing with a child over the Easter Bunny's middle name... pointless.
Everything I've written in this thread is true.
The tradition of the Old Testament... even the god of the Old Testament, is more barbaric and bestial than any value or moral American Christians would attribute to Al Quaeda today. Sorry, but that's the truth.
The Luke
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...does it matter if what I wrote is true? Or are you looking for an excuse to dismiss what I wrote?
McWay CLAIMS that what I write is untrue... he CLAIMS I fabricate my arguments... but that doesn't make it so.
He writes blatant lies; blatant propaganda; deliberate Orwellian doublespeak... "The laws of Israel were FAR MORE FAVOURABLE to women than those of the Koran are or ever were." ...I could copy and paste pages of scripture to counter such an assertion, but I know that every educated person reading his gibberish sees through it.
Go for it!! Every time you make such a foolish challenge, it gets met; you get royally refuted and routed; then you tuck your tail and run.
I have come to understand that correcting McWay is akin to arguing with a child over the Easter Bunny's middle name... pointless.
Everything I've written in this thread is true.
That's BS. And I've proven that such is teh case TIME AND TIME AGAIN!! And, if you have the guts to try and back this garbage, I will tear your assertions to ribbons, YET AGAIN!!
The tradition of the Old Testament... even the god of the Old Testament, is more barbaric and bestial than any value or moral American Christians would attribute to Al Quaeda today. Sorry, but that's the truth.
The Luke
One, because of your subscription to the concept of "moral evolution" or fluid morality, you are in no position to call anyone else's value system "barbaric".
Two, since the lion's share of your claims can be shown FALSE, with the greatest of ease, your declaration is yet more pitiful than usual.
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...does it matter if what I wrote is true? Or are you looking for an excuse to dismiss what I wrote?
McWay CLAIMS that what I write is untrue... he CLAIMS I fabricate my arguments... but that doesn't make it so.
He writes blatant lies; blatant propaganda; deliberate Orwellian doublespeak... "The laws of Israel were FAR MORE FAVOURABLE to women than those of the Koran are or ever were." ...I could copy and paste pages of scripture to counter such an assertion, but I know that every educated person reading his gibberish sees through it.
I have come to understand that correcting McWay is akin to arguing with a child over the Easter Bunny's middle name... pointless.
Everything I've written in this thread is true.
The tradition of the Old Testament... even the god of the Old Testament, is more barbaric and bestial than any value or moral American Christians would attribute to Al Quaeda today. Sorry, but that's the truth.
The Luke
You absolutely fabricate arguments, like saying the New Testament calls for homosexuals to be put to death. Pure fabrication.
And why can't you give Stella a straight answer? Are you pulling this stuff out of your rear end or are you relying on some source?
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You absolutely fabricate arguments, like saying the New Testament calls for homosexuals to be put to death. Pure fabrication.
And why can't you give Stella a straight answer? Are you pulling this stuff out of your rear end or are you relying on some source?
I'll take the latter (which he won't cite) for $200, please!!!
The reason he does all this whimpering is because, when you post the actual facts that set his claims in flames, Luke tends to get testy, if you will.
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...does it matter if what I wrote is true? Or are you looking for an excuse to dismiss what I wrote?
Luke, actually yes, I would like to know if you are relying on old memories to posts this or if you are getting it from some source. Don't you agree that sometimes our memories can be mistaken?
McWay CLAIMS that what I write is untrue... he CLAIMS I fabricate my arguments... but that doesn't make it so.
He writes blatant lies; blatant propaganda; deliberate Orwellian doublespeak... "The laws of Israel were FAR MORE FAVOURABLE to women than those of the Koran are or ever were." ...I could copy and paste pages of scripture to counter such an assertion, but I know that every educated person reading his gibberish sees through it.
But see Luke here is the thing. If MCWAY is asked to substantiate his claims w/Scripture, he does so. Can you please go ahead and copy and paste scriptures from the Bible as well as some stuff from the Koran that substantiate your above claim regarding the treatment of women? It doesn't have to be pages and pages...in fact, could you just post a few from each so we see where you are coming from?
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Don't you fools even read the Bibe...?
You don't think Mosaic Law and Shariah Law are the same thing? Have you read Mosaic Law?
Let's start with Yahweh's support of rape; sex slavery and gang rape:
Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
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Let's see what Yahweh's attitude is towards murder... who exactly should we murder...?
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
...read that one again, isn't that the very definition of an honour killing, just like in Isam?
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
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...more murder...
Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women
"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
More of Samson's Murders
(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)
Peter Kills Two People
There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)
Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
You Have to Kill
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
The Danites Kill the Next Town
But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)
God Kills Some More
Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)
God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
The Angel of Death
My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)
Destruction of Ai
Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.
Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.
Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.
When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)
Killing at Jericho
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)
God Kills an Extended Family
"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)
Mass Murder
The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)
The Angel of Death
That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)
Kill Your Neighbors
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)
Kill the Family of Sinners
And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)
Kill Followers of Other Religions
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)
Murder
At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)
Kill All of Babylon
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
Micah Kills a Whole Town
Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)
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What about Yahweh's attitude to slavery...?
Slavery:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
New Testament slavery... even Jesus agrees with slavery...
New Covenant Slavery:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
So, what's so different between this and Shariah Law?
The Luke
(www.evilbible.com is your friend)
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Don't you fools even read the Bibe...?
You don't think Mosaic Law and Shariah Law are the same thing? Have you read Mosaic Law?
Let's start with Yahweh's support of rape; sex slavery and gang rape:
Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
As usual, your lack of comprehension shows itself, as you left off verse 25,
In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Every man doing right in his own eyes? HMMMM....why does that sound SO familiar? Sounds a lot like that "fluid" morality thing.
It's certainly NOT God supporting rape or sex slaves.
Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
All in the Kool-Aid and don't know the flavor....AGAIN!!
The Midianite women weren't innocent bystanders in this issue. Per orders from their king, they sedduced the men of Israel. This was done DELIBERATELY, because Baalam, a traitor and rogue prophet, told the Midianite king that the only way his armies could defeat Israelites was if God lifted His protection from them.
The Moabites were in cohoots with the Midianites, as well. And their women also participated in this seduction.
Num. 22:1-7
And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in the plains of Moab on this side Jordan byJericho. And Balak the son of Zippor saw all that Israel had done to the Amorites. And Moab was sore afraid of the people, because they were many: and Moab was distressed because of the children of Israel.
And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, "Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field." And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time. He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, "Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me.
Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed."
And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak.
The Moabites knew what happened to the Egyptians. And, if they tried to mess with Israel, they would suffer the same fate. Hence, that's the reason they hired Balaam to CURSE Israel. But, he couldn't do it. Therefore, they had to find another way to get Israel away from God's protection.
The short answer was IDOLATRY. And what better way to get the Israelites to do that than with the Moabites/Midianites sexual rituals in worshipping their deities?
Num. 25:1-3:
And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
Why would there need to be any raping, when the Israelite men WERE ALREADY FORNICATING with the Midianite women, against God's law?
More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Why were these people deposed of their land, again? OOOH!! Verse 18:
That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Forgot a few items:
Ex. 21 states that the family doesn't have to approve the marriage. Regardless the rapist still pays the dowry. And as earlier verses indicate, he is still on the hook for her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
Plus, marriage does NOT require living in the same house, having further sexual contact (as is often the case when married people get separated and divorced).
Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
DEAD WRONG and pitifully dumb. One, nothing in that text says that the woman is RAPED. Therefore, you have a standard case of adultery, in which BOTH PARTIES were put to death.
Of course, in true cracked-in-the-head, Luke fashion, you conveniently left out the very next verse, Deut. 22:25, the verse that ACTUALLY states what happens in cases of rape. I wonder why!! ::)
But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
What was that you were saying about lying on another thread, again, "Have you no shame, Sir?"
David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
David and Bathseba were spared the death pelanty. But David's family paid the price for his sins, as the prophet Nathan told him. So, what's the issue here, other than your pointless ranting?
Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
I guess you missed the terms, "husband and wife". Plus, when exactly did there become a 30-day holding period for raping someone? Of course, if those women had been left to fend for themselves, you'd be hollering about that.
Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
You and whoever cited this mess need remieidal reading lessons. That passage is about the song of Deborah and thaportion is her LAMENTING about what the enemies of Issrael are doing to their people.
Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
NOTHING in that passage talks about being sex slaves. You can have female servants with no sex involved. Plus, if the woman is BETROTHED, that menas she is to be married and become a WIFE. Thefore, the money exchanged is little more than a dowry.
God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
That is a prophecy in which God cites Israel's defeat and subjugation to, I believe, the Romans, which had been cited in prophecy (again, for Israel's disobedience).
At the end of the day, your claims (or those you copped from "EvilBible") have been shown to be imcomplete at best, and flat-out WRONG, at worst.
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McWay,
Is there anything you won't rationalise in the name of that odious book?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
You are justifying rape; slavery; infanticide; genocide and every degree of barbarism in between... and quit that "fluid" morality bullshit. You aren't quoting me or anything I subscribe to.
The Luke
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-the Genesis story is lifted from the Babylonian creation myth
More like the other way around:
Bible Possibly Written Centuries Earlier, Text Suggests
livescience.com
Fri Jan 15, 2010
Scientists have discovered the earliest known Hebrew writing - an inscription dating from the 10th century B.C., during the period of King David's reign.
The breakthrough could mean that portions of the Bible were written centuries earlier than previously thought. (The Bible's Old Testament is thought to have been first written down in an ancient form of Hebrew.)
Until now, many scholars have held that the Hebrew Bible originated in the 6th century B.C., because Hebrew writing was thought to stretch back no further. But the newly deciphered Hebrew text is about four centuries older, scientists announced this month.
"It indicates that the Kingdom of Israel already existed in the 10th century BCE and that at least some of the biblical texts were written hundreds of years before the dates presented in current research," said Gershon Galil, a professor of Biblical Studies at the University of Haifa in Israel, who deciphered the ancient text.
BCE stands for "before common era," and is equivalent to B.C., or before Christ.
The writing was discovered more than a year ago on a pottery shard dug up during excavations at Khirbet Qeiyafa, near Israel's Elah valley. The excavations were carried out by archaeologist Yosef Garfinkel of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. At first, scientists could not tell if the writing was Hebrew or some other local language.
Finally, Galil was able to decipher the text. He identified words particular to the Hebrew language and content specific to Hebrew culture to prove that the writing was, in fact, Hebrew.
"It uses verbs that were characteristic of Hebrew, such as asah ('did') and avad ('worked'), which were rarely used in other regional languages," Galil said. "Particular words that appear in the text, such as almanah ('widow') are specific to Hebrew and are written differently in other local languages."
The ancient text is written in ink on a trapezoid-shaped piece of pottery about 6 inches by 6.5 inches (15 cm by 16.5 cm). It appears to be a social statement about how people should treat slaves, widows and orphans. In English, it reads (by numbered line):
1' you shall not do [it], but worship the [Lord].
2' Judge the sla[ve] and the wid[ow] / Judge the orph[an]
3' [and] the stranger. [Pl]ead for the infant / plead for the po[or and]
4' the widow. Rehabilitate [the poor] at the hands of the king.
5' Protect the po[or and] the slave / [supp]ort the stranger.
The content, which has some missing letters, is similar to some Biblical scriptures, such as Isaiah 1:17, Psalms 72:3, and Exodus 23:3, but does not appear to be copied from any Biblical text.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100115/sc_livescience/biblepossiblywrittencenturiesearliertextsuggests
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McWay,
Is there anything you won't rationalise in the name of that odious book?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
You are justifying rape; slavery; infanticide; genocide and every degree of barbarism in between... and quit that "fluid" morality bullshit. You aren't quoting me or anything I subscribe to.
The Luke
But, Luke, you and your atheist brethren are the ones, piping that fluid morality stuff, not me.
And, since your reading is apparently shot today, I have basically taken apart your tired yelping (or what you snatched from "EvilBible") and exposed it for the foolishness that it is.
The bottom line is that the answer to this topic of this thread is an emphatic NO!
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More like the other way around:
I think you need to do some more research.
The Babylonian creation myth pre-dates the Bible by about a thousand years (maybe even a couple of thousand years), if SOME parts of the Bible are a couple of centuries older than previously thought, so what? Read the two myths side by side and see if you notice a correlation.
Read the origin myth of Sargon of Akkad... that's where Moses' origin story comes from.
Read the backstory of the Egyptian Crown Prince Thutmose... that's where the Moses/Kamose as son of Pharaoh legend originates.
If this much of the Moses legend is plagiarism, why would Mosaic Law be original?
Or, if you're feeling brave, try reading all the Middle Eastern mytholgy that pre-dates both Judaism and Christianity.
Read about the other versions of Christianity that pre-date modern Christianity.
Read about the other dying-resurrecting god-men.
Read about the other Christs before Christ.
Read about the other gospels.
Maybe even read Shariah Law alongside Mosaic Law... it's all the same outdated tribal Bronze Age bullshit.
Shariah Law is copied from Mosaic Law; Mosaic law is simply a formalisation of the nomadic tribal customs stemming from the Edom Valley (in Jordan).
The Luke
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I think you need to do some more research.
The Babylonian creation myth pre-dates the Bible by about a thousand years (maybe even a couple of thousand years), if SOME parts of the Bible are a couple of centuries older than previously thought, so what? Read the two myths side by side and see if you notice a correlation.
Read the origin myth of Sargon of Akkad... that's where Moses' origin story comes from.
Read the backstory of the Egyptian Crown Prince Thutmose... that's where the Moses/Kamose as son of Pharaoh legend originates.
If this much of the Moses legend is plagiarism, why would Mosaic Law be original?
Or, if you're feeling brave, try reading all the Middle Eastern mytholgy that pre-dates both Judaism and Christianity.
Read about the other versions of Christianity that pre-date modern Christianity.
Read about the other dying-resurrecting god-men.
Read about the other Christs before Christ.
Read about the other gospels.
Maybe even read Shariah Law alongside Mosaic Law... it's all the same outdated tribal Bronze Age bullshit.
Shariah Law is copied from Mosaic Law; Mosaic law is simply a formalisation of the nomadic tribal customs stemming from the Edom Valley (in Jordan).
The Luke
How many times do Loco and I have to take you to the woodshed on this issue?
Your claims have been shown to be BOGUS, far too often, on far too many occasions.
You can't even get your facts straight about capital punishment in cases of rape.
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I think you need to do some more research.
The Babylonian creation myth pre-dates the Bible by about a thousand years (maybe even a couple of thousand years), if SOME parts of the Bible are a couple of centuries older than previously thought, so what? Read the two myths side by side and see if you notice a correlation.
Read the origin myth of Sargon of Akkad... that's where Moses' origin story comes from.
Read the backstory of the Egyptian Crown Prince Thutmose... that's where the Moses/Kamose as son of Pharaoh legend originates.
If this much of the Moses legend is plagiarism, why would Mosaic Law be original?
Or, if you're feeling brave, try reading all the Middle Eastern mytholgy that pre-dates both Judaism and Christianity.
Read about the other versions of Christianity that pre-date modern Christianity.
Read about the other dying-resurrecting god-men.
Read about the other Christs before Christ.
Read about the other gospels.
Maybe even read Shariah Law alongside Mosaic Law... it's all the same outdated tribal Bronze Age bullshit.
Shariah Law is copied from Mosaic Law; Mosaic law is simply a formalisation of the nomadic tribal customs stemming from the Edom Valley (in Jordan).
The Luke
I think you need to do some research. If anybody copied anything, it was the others who copied stuff from the Bible. And your alleged Jesus Christ myths have already been proven false on this board multiple times.
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I think you need to do some research. If anybody copied anything, it was the others who copied stuff from the Bible. And your alleged Jesus Christ myths have already been proven false on this board multiple times.
How many times do Loco and I have to take you to the woodshed on this issue?
Your claims have been shown to be BOGUS, far too often, on far too many occasions.
You can't even get your facts straight about capital punishment in cases of rape.
Well then...
Believe what you were told to believe.
Read only what agrees with your prejudices.
Cite only propaganda websites producing lies designed to reinforce your conditioning.
Call everyone who disagrees a liar, over and over again till you can convince yourself they are lying.
Never think for yourself.
Purge your mind of all logic.
Avoid all rationality.
Eventually, you will be able to re-interpret this reality so at odds with your delusions as somehow reinforcing your base; infantile fantasies.
The Luke
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Well then...
Believe what you were told to believe.
Read only what agrees with your prejudices.
Cite only propaganda websites producing lies designed to reinforce your conditioning.
Call everyone who disagrees a liar, over and over again till you can convince yourself they are lying.
Never think for yourself.
Purge your mind of all logic.
Avoid all rationality.
Eventually, you will be able to re-interpret this reality so at odds with your delusions as somehow reinforcing your base; infantile fantasies.
The Luke
Well then...
Make up a bunch of stupid claims.
Run like a scalded dog, when the facts burn your claims to the grounds.
Come back, when you think it's safe.
Post more foolishness.
Take a consecutive trip to the woodshed.
All this blubbering of yours doesn't hide the fact that YOU made a statement that was blatantly and patently FALSE.
YOU SAID, point blank, that rape victims were put to death, citing Deut. 22:23-24. Yet, in true bone-headed and cowardly fashion, YOU DELIBERATELY OMITTED the very next verse (25), THAT SPECIFICALLY states that when a man foricbly lays with a woman (i.e. rape), THAT MAN and THAT MAN ALONE is put to death. Nothing happens to the woman, NOTHING.
I called you a liar, because you deliberately omitted that part, knowing that it shattered your claim to pieces.
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I called you a liar, because you deliberately omitted that part, knowing that it shattered your claim to pieces.
...so you found one passage contradictory to one of the 60+ passages I cited?
Okay, that's to be expected... the Bible is full of contradiction. "Thou Shallt not kill"... "Kill all the Canaanites" etc etc.
What's your point?
Shariah Law is a Draconian misogynistic homophobic Middle-Eastern populace suppression methodology... Mosaic law is also a Draconian misogynistic homophobic Middle-Eastern populace suppression methodology.
The Koran is mostly plagiarised from the Torah/Old Testament... hence Shariah Law and Mosaic Law are essentially the same.
Christian Fundamentalists and Muslim Fundamentalists are essentially the same.
Muslim oppression is essentially the same as would be enforced by Fundamentalist Evangelicals.
The only problem with the Middle East is that they don't have a vibrant atheist movement to help save them from themselves, the way atheism and humanist rationalism saved the West from it's Christian fringe element.
Shariah Law... Palin Law... tomAto, tomato.
The Luke
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...so you found one passage contradictory to one of the 60+ passages I cited?
No, I found WAAAAAAAY more than one of your falsehoods. That particular item was simply the first that came to mind.
Okay, that's to be expected... the Bible is full of contradiction. "Thou Shallt not kill"... "Kill all the Canaanites" etc etc.
NOPE!! The 6th commandment is consistent with the 2nd commandment.
What's your point?
Shariah Law is a Draconian misogynistic homophobic Middle-Eastern populace suppression methodology... Mosaic law is also a Draconian misogynistic homophobic Middle-Eastern populace suppression methodology.
The Koran is mostly plagiarised from the Torah/Old Testament... hence Shariah Law and Mosaic Law are essentially the same.
Christian Fundamentalists and Muslim Fundamentalists are essentially the same.
Muslim oppression is essentially the same as would be enforced by Fundamentalist Evangelicals.
The only problem with the Middle East is that they don't have a vibrant atheist movement to help save them from themselves, the way atheism and humanist rationalism saved the West from it's Christian fringe element.
Shariah Law... Palin Law... tomAto, tomato.
The Luke
"Tomato, Asparagus" is more like it. Atheism hasn't saved anyone from anyhting. Quite the opposite, it appears, people have had to be saved from atheism run amuck, as seen by the regimes of Stalin and Hitler.
Your tired quips have been torn asunder, more than once, and by others besides little ol' me.
Lost in all of this is why exactly are you crying about ANYONE'S law being Draconian? If man can make up his own morals and rules or be morally "fluid" (as many atheist claims), then what you call "Draconian" would be a simple example of such fluidity.
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Lost in all of this is why exactly are you crying about ANYONE'S law being Draconian? If man can make up his own morals and rules or be morally "fluid" (as many atheist claims), then what you call "Draconian" would be a simple example of such fluidity.
What's with the quotation marks?
You're not quoting ME.
Every single post you trot out your own misunderstanding of atheist morality... the only people who believe morality is only what they are TOLD is right and wrong are psychopaths; not atheists.
Guess we now know which type of person YOU are... seeing as you defend every abominable act your imaginary friend ordered.
The Luke
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Well then...
Believe what you were told to believe.
Read only what agrees with your prejudices.
Cite only propaganda websites producing lies designed to reinforce your conditioning.
Call everyone who disagrees a liar, over and over again till you can convince yourself they are lying.
Never think for yourself.
Purge your mind of all logic.
Avoid all rationality.
Eventually, you will be able to re-interpret this reality so at odds with your delusions as somehow reinforcing your base; infantile fantasies.
The Luke
But Luke, you don't cite anything at all. You pull stuff out of your butt, with nothing to back it up.
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But Luke, you don't cite anything at all. You pull stuff out of your butt, with nothing to back it up.
I'm not responsible for your education... I can't make you learn... if you don't believe what I write, then check it out for yourself.
Let's take an example from this thread (have you noticed how often I write these detailed examples that are far more informative than posting a link which most on this board wouldn't read anyway?)...
I claimed:
"Read the origin myth of Sargon of Akkad... that's where Moses' origin story comes from."
You could dismiss that by claiming I didn't cite a source; but that's a "Catch 22" situation for me... if I cite a source you guys believe to be biased; you know, some sort of atheist or liberal or humanist or realist or scientist website, it just gets dismissed based solely on your Christian bias.
What can I cite? How many Evangelical Christian Apologist websites are eager to draw a parallel between Moses and Sargon?
Not many... not any.
But maybe we could type "Sargon of Akkad" into Google, and get: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad
Voila! There's Sargon's origin myth I was referring to:
"My mother was a high priestess, my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My high priestess mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river [Euphrates] which rose over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and […] years I exercised kingship."
...isn't that suspicously similar to the Moses story?
It comes from the 7th century BC but refers to events which happened 2,300 BC.
But then again, the Moses story refers to events which happened 1,500 BC but weren't written down till 600 BC (Babylonian captivity).
So you still might not believe me.
(Had you checked my claim on the Babylonian creation myth there is no such ambiguity).
So you do a bit more research and soon find that literally dozens of semi-mythical characters have origin stories that involve them being "saved from water" in early infancy... but why?
It's code... copied over and over, from manuscript to manuscript, cross-fertilising many different cultures... an infant "saved from water" is really a double-meaning hinting that this individual knows the star-lore which was saved from antediluvian civilisation.
Do some of this research for yourself, you'll enjoy it.
The Luke
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What's with the quotation marks?
You're not quoting ME.
I am, when you mention the term, "Draconian", which you used in your earlier posts.
Every single post you trot out your own misunderstanding of atheist morality... the only people who believe morality is only what they are TOLD is right and wrong are psychopaths; not atheists.
Guess we now know which type of person YOU are... seeing as you defend every abominable act your imaginary friend ordered.
The Luke
It's not hard to understand that atheists, by their own words, have a floating or "fluid" sense of morality. Yet, they trip over themselves, when someone takes that to its most logical and extreme conclusion.
Plus, you've defended STEALING and LYING. If you can justify that, why are you wailing about someone else's allegedly "abominable" acts?
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I'm not responsible for your education... I can't make you learn... if you don't believe what I write, then check it out for yourself.
Let's take an example from this thread (have you noticed how often I write these detailed examples that are far more informative than posting a link which most on this board wouldn't read anyway?)...
I claimed:
"Read the origin myth of Sargon of Akkad... that's where Moses' origin story comes from."
You could dismiss that by claiming I didn't cite a source; but that's a "Catch 22" situation for me... if I cite a source you guys believe to be biased; you know, some sort of atheist or liberal or humanist or realist or scientist website, it just gets dismissed based solely on your Christian bias.
What can I cite? How many Evangelical Christian Apologist websites are eager to draw a parallel between Moses and Sargon?
Not many... not any.
But maybe we could type "Sargon of Akkad" into Google, and get: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad
Voila! There's Sargon's origin myth I was referring to:
"My mother was a high priestess, my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My high priestess mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river [Euphrates] which rose over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and […] years I exercised kingship."
...isn't that suspicously similar to the Moses story?
It comes from the 7th century BC but refers to events which happened 2,300 BC.
But then again, the Moses story refers to events which happened 1,500 BC but weren't written down till 600 BC (Babylonian captivity).
So you still might not believe me.
(Had you checked my claim on the Babylonian creation myth there is no such ambiguity).
So you do a bit more research and soon find that literally dozens of semi-mythical characters have origin stories that involve them being "saved from water" in early infancy... but why?
It's code... copied over and over, from manuscript to manuscript, cross-fertilising many different cultures... an infant "saved from water" is really a double-meaning hinting that this individual knows the star-lore which was saved from antediluvian civilisation.
Do some of this research for yourself, you'll enjoy it.
The Luke
Luke,
For finally posting a link to anything, I give you props. Other than that...
Exodus dates back to 1400 BC.
As for Sargon and Moses, what's so similar about their baby stories? That they were both put in a waterproof basket and left floating on a river? That's all? And this automatically means that one event was plagiarized from another?
"What of the birth legend of Sargon? It is hardly likely that documentation of this will appear. The story is one common in various forms in folklore and is obviously comparable to the story of Moses in the bulrushes. Before we dismiss either or both as fiction, however, we should note that Babylonia and Egypt are both riverine cultures and that putting the baby in a waterproof basket might be a slightly more satisfactory way to dispose of an infant than throwing it on the rubbish heap, which was more usual. Today unwanted babies are frequently dumped on hospital doorsteps or in other public places in the hope that they will be rescued. The story of the foundling rising to eminence may be a motif of folklore, but that is surely because it is a story that occurs repeatedly in real life."
http://fontes.lstc.edu/~rklein/Documents/how_reliable_is_exodus.htm
Oh, and you have absolutely no excuse for not posting links or references to your sources when you pull stuff out of your butt.
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"What of the birth legend of Sargon? It is hardly likely that documentation of this will appear. The story is one common in various forms in folklore and is obviously comparable to the story of Moses in the bulrushes. Before we dismiss either or both as fiction, however, we should note that Babylonia and Egypt are both riverine cultures and that putting the baby in a waterproof basket might be a slightly more satisfactory way to dispose of an infant than throwing it on the rubbish heap, which was more usual. Today unwanted babies are frequently dumped on hospital doorsteps or in other public places in the hope that they will be rescued. The story of the foundling rising to eminence may be a motif of folklore, but that is surely because it is a story that occurs repeatedly in real life."
...it's not just common, it's an astrological code.
The hero represents the sun (or sometimes humankind), there's almost always a river (the Milky Way), similarly "magical numbers" also appear with alarming regularity:
-12 disciples/companions/labours/tribes representing the Zodiac
-a lost or hidden 13th disciple/companion/tribe associated with the moon and/or the planet Venus (Mary Magdalene)
-the number 72 is worked into the story for some reason, it's the precessional number
-an Ark or boat which saves the first farmers from a deluge or a saltwater dragon (rising ocean levels)
-a garden centred around a magical tree (the pole) wherein live the first people
-a trial/mourning period of 40 days and 40 nights once every 40 years (re-synchronisation of the 40 year Venus cycle with the leap years and solar cycle)
-3 days in the underworld before resurrection/rebirth at the summer equinox (Easter)
-a sun god born on the 25th of December (or 4 days after the winter solstice)
-divine annunciations by the planet Mercury (or an angel/god representing it) to the planet Venus (or a divine virgin or 13th disciple representing it)
These patterns are well researched, and best understood as astrological metaphors.
Don't be afraid, look it up.
The Luke
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...it's not just common, it's an astrological code.
The hero represents the sun (or sometimes humankind), there's almost always a river (the Milky Way), similarly "magical numbers" also appear with alarming regularity:
-12 disciples/companions/labours/tribes representing the Zodiac
-a lost or hidden 13th disciple/companion/tribe associated with the moon and/or the planet Venus (Mary Magdalene)
-the number 72 is worked into the story for some reason, it's the precessional number
-an Ark or boat which saves the first farmers from a deluge or a saltwater dragon (rising ocean levels)
-a garden centred around a magical tree (the pole) wherein live the first people
-a trial/mourning period of 40 days and 40 nights once every 40 years (re-synchronisation of the 40 year Venus cycle with the leap years and solar cycle)
-3 days in the underworld before resurrection/rebirth at the summer equinox (Easter)
-a sun god born on the 25th of December (or 4 days after the winter solstice)
-divine annunciations by the planet Mercury (or an angel/god representing it) to the planet Venus (or a divine virgin or 13th disciple representing it)
These patterns are well researched, and best understood as astrological metaphors.
Don't be afraid, look it up.
The Luke
We have. And we've taken this foolishness of yours apart TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!
For some reason, you think repeating this stupidity makes it more accurate than the last few dozen times you've coughed up this slapstick comedy.
Alas, it is not.
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Luke, good for you for posting scripture! But do you see the problem when you don't post the full scripture as MCWAY showed? It can change the whole meaning. Plus prefacing a section of text w/a misleading "title" is pretty lame too...I know you didn't do it, but the site did.
Do you read MCWAY's commentaries? They really are helpful and very informative to show what the scripture is actually saying.
Do you also realize a site called evilbible is going to probably skew items toward making you think the bible is evil LOL?
I wish you would consider MCWAY'S commentaries....and not just embrace misleading stuff from a site that does not promote objectivity. :(
When you get a chance can you post some of the stuff from the Koran regarding the treatment of women? Thanks.
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Luke, good for you for posting scripture! But do you see the problem when you don't post the full scripture as MCWAY showed? It can change the whole meaning. Plus prefacing a section of text w/a misleading "title" is pretty lame too...I know you didn't do it, but the site did.
Do you read MCWAY's commentaries? They really are helpful and very informative to show what the scripture is actually saying.
Do you also realize a site called evilbible is going to probably skew items toward making you think the bible is evil LOL?
I wish you would consider MCWAY'S commentaries....and not just embrace misleading stuff from a site that does not promote objectivity. :(
When you get a chance can you post some of the stuff from the Koran regarding the treatment of women? Thanks.
Although I updated it on the original post, here's a little more insight as to that whole Midianite women thing:
The Midianite women weren't innocent bystanders in this issue. Per orders from their king, they seduced the men of Israel. This was done DELIBERATELY, because Baalam, a traitor and rogue prophet, told the Midianite king that the only way his armies could defeat Israelites was if God lifted His protection from them.
The Moabites were in cohoots with the Midianites, as well. And their women also participated in this seduction.
Num. 22:1-7
And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in the plains of Moab on this side Jordan by Jericho. And Balak the son of Zippor saw all that Israel had done to the Amorites. And Moab was sore afraid of the people, because they were many: and Moab was distressed because of the children of Israel.
And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, "Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field." And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time. He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, "Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me.
Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed."
And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak.
The Moabites knew what happened to the Egyptians. And, if they tried to mess with Israel, they would suffer the same fate. Hence, that's the reason they hired Balaam to CURSE Israel. But, he couldn't do it. Therefore, they had to find another way to get Israel away from God's protection.
The short answer was IDOLATRY. And what better way to get the Israelites to do that than with the Moabites/Midianites sexual rituals in worshipping their deities?
Num. 25:1-3:
And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
Now, why would there need to be any raping of the Midianite and Moabite women, when they were giving it up freely, to entice the Israelites to worship their gods and turn their backs on the Lord?
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Luke, good for you for posting scripture! But do you see the problem when you don't post the full scripture as MCWAY showed? It can change the whole meaning. Plus prefacing a section of text w/a misleading "title" is pretty lame too...I know you didn't do it, but the site did.
Do you read MCWAY's commentaries? They really are helpful and very informative to show what the scripture is actually saying.
Do you also realize a site called evilbible is going to probably skew items toward making you think the bible is evil LOL?
I wish you would consider MCWAY'S commentaries....and not just embrace misleading stuff from a site that does not promote objectivity. :(
When you get a chance can you post some of the stuff from the Koran regarding the treatment of women? Thanks.
I don't understand the controversy here, when you compare Shariah Law and Mosaic Law side by side there's precious little difference:
-kill worshippers of other gods... check
-kill gays... check
-brutalise women... check
-capital punishment for minor offences... check
-kill people from other tribes... check
-kill blasphemers... check
-take slaves... check
What's the difference?
The Luke
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I don't understand the controversy here, when you compare Shariah Law and Mosaic Law side by side there's precious little difference:
-kill worshippers of other gods... check
-kill gays... check
-brutalise women... check
-capital punishment for minor offences... check
-kill people from other tribes... check
-kill blasphemers... check
-take slaves... check
What's the difference?
The Luke
The difference is simple (which are the most difficult for you at times):
Kill worshippers of other gods.....YEP!! (when they engage in perverted, disease-spreading sexual rituals and human sacrifice)
Kill gays...see above!!
Brutalize women (by giving them the benefit of the doubt, protecting them from financial ruin, and putting abusers of women TO DEATH)...NOPE!!
Capatial punishment for minor offenses..since you are in no position to define minor or major offenses, this quip is basically moot.
Kill blasphemers...see the other gods routine!
Take slaves....NOPE!!! Chattle slavery was barred. Other forms of servitude is based on financial situations or debt repaying or other legal issues.
Notwithstanding how much you wish to lament for those poor worshippers of Molech and Dagon to barbecue their children and spread disease left and right, take STella's advice and do some more reading, before posting such silliness.
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Now, why would there need to be any raping of the Midianite and Moabite women, when they were giving it up freely, to entice the Israelites to worship their gods and turn their backs on the Lord?
Thanks for making this point even clearer! You would be a great teacher.
I don't understand the controversy here, when you compare Shariah Law and Mosaic Law side by side there's precious little difference:
-kill worshippers of other gods... check
-kill gays... check
-brutalise women... check
-capital punishment for minor offences... check
-kill people from other tribes... check
-kill blasphemers... check
-take slaves... check
What's the difference?
The Luke
After seeing you had posted some scriptures from the bible re: the OT treatment of women, I thought you were going to post some stuff from the Koran about the treatment of women?
He writes blatant lies; blatant propaganda; deliberate Orwellian doublespeak... "The laws of Israel were FAR MORE FAVOURABLE to women than those of the Koran are or ever were." ...I could copy and paste pages of scripture to counter such an assertion, but I know that every educated person reading his gibberish sees through it.
I have a Qu'ran where I could look stuff up if you can direct me to the text...or if there is a type of link like biblegateway.com only for a Koran could you post it? Thanks.
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I have a Qu'ran where I could look stuff up if you can direct me to the text...or if there is a type of link like biblegateway.com only for a Koran could you post it? Thanks.
...I don't see the point Stella, seems you only want to hear McWay's apologist fatasies.
Maybe you should read that Koran yourself, you might notice some similarities between your fellow fundamentalist Christians and your fellow fundamentalist Muslims.
The Luke
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...I don't see the point Stella, seems you only want to hear McWay's apologist fatasies.
Maybe you should read that Koran yourself, you might notice some similarities between your fellow fundamentalist Christians and your fellow fundamentalist Muslims.
The Luke
In other words, you can't back up all that smack. You'll excuse me if I don't faint from shock.
Nor, can you counter what you claim to be my "apologist fantasies".
Again, why would there need to be any raping of the Midianite and Moabite women, when they were giving it up freely, to entice the Israelites to worship their gods and turn their backs on the Lord (hence the reason judgment came down on them, the Israelites and the Midianites)?
More importantly, WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE by citing Deu. 22:23-24 that rape victims were put to death under OT law, DELIBERATEDLY OMITTING the very next verse which states that ONLY THE RAPIST was executed?
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In other words, you can't back up all that smack. You'll excuse me if I don't faint from shock.
Nor, can you counter what you claim to be my "apologist fantasies".
What can I post?
You can't read.
The Luke
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What can I post?
You can't read.
The Luke
Oh I can!! And, since you didn't catch my latest update.....
Why would there need to be any raping of the Midianite and Moabite women, when they were giving it up freely, to entice the Israelites to worship their gods and turn their backs on the Lord (hence the reason judgment came down on them, the Israelites and the Midianites)?
More importantly, WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE by citing Deu. 22:23-24 that rape victims were put to death under OT law, DELIBERATEDLY OMITTING the very next verse which states that ONLY THE RAPIST was executed?
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McWay,
This is why I'm the only person willing to engage with you, your deliberately selective reading comprehension... and you're wearing even my patience pretty thin.
Let's look at the entire passage so context is no longer an issue.
It's basically a short canon of sexual morals, with the final chapters dealing specifically with sex crimes. I've even used a couple of translations that back away from the use of the word "rape", so I'm being as fair as possible...
22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
...assuming we're not talking about rape, but consensual sex, that still dictates DEATH FOR ADULTERERS.
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
...this does seem to refer to rape, but giving the benefit of the doubt, let's assume this is once again a simple act of consensual adultery, then it dictates DEATH FOR ADULTERY. The only difference being that a woman cannot claim she was raped if she was inside the city at the time of the rape/adultery.
Now think about this, it's not too difficult to figure the three possible scenarios:
1-It was an act of consensual adultery... then the verse DICTATES DEATH FOR BOTH ADULTERERS (which is
consistent with the previous verse)
2-It was actually a rape and the woman wasn't able to alert anyone; the rapist used force/violence/threat to silence her... then the verse dictates death for the rapist, and DEATH FOR THE RAPED WOMAN just in case it was an act of consensual adultery
3-There is another scenario... a much more disturbing one... bare with me:
Say a thirteen year-old girl is sold as a sex-slave/wife to an elderly man (in accordance ith Jewish custom of the time). He gets old... she gets lonely... at 16 she meets a nice 16-year-old boy... they fall in love... they meet in secret and promise to marry just as soon as her doddery old impotent husband dies... but one night, while renewing their clandestine promise, hormones get the better of them as so often happens with besotted immature teenagers.
But they get caught.
Realising that he is facing death by stoning for adultery, the 16-year-old boy lies... he claims he raped the girl, hoping to spare her from stoning and let her off scot-free... a selfless lie for love.
The Council of City Elders has to deliberate.
Should they let the girl go and only stone the boy to death as a rapist, or should they stone both of them as adulterers...? ...no one is sure what to do. So they consult Deuteronomy.
Tough shit... no one heard her cry out... so BOTH ARE STONED TO DEATH FOR ADULTERY.
Guess this rule must have been very tough for women whose only neighbour was deaf... anyone could rape them with impunity; if they reported it they'd be stoned alongside their attacker.
22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
25:27 If a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die ... For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.If a woman is raped in the country, then only the man shall die (since there was no one to hear her if she cried out.)
22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
...even this passage (both translations above) doesn't mean what you think it means. It could be that this was another example of the situation above.
It merely asserts a man's property rights over his wife/bethrothed... it DOES NOT dictate death for ALL rape (as you insist), only death for the rape of another man's wife/betrothed. There is no protection for unbethrothed women in this passage.
22:28-29
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife.
If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her.
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
...read that carefully. It says that rapists only receive the death penalty if the victim is not betrothed.
If you rape a woman who is someone else's property you are put to death... but if she isn't promised as property to someone else... well then it's just a fine to her default owner (her father) and a financially binding settlement of care.
It does NOT stipulate that there be some sort of sexless marriage-in-name-only arrangement as you claim, that is pure apologist fantasy
But consider what it does allow:
-men who can afford it can rape any unbethrothed girl they want with impunity
-the rape victims can be forced into a loveless marriage at best and a form of sex slavery at worst (assuming her father enforces such)
Now imagine the situation wherein a rich man rapes an unbethrothed CHILD (because girls are bethrothed at thirteen in this society, an "unbethrothed maiden" is a girl younger than 13), but offers to pay the fine.
If her father is poor, he must accept the settlement as he cannot afford to take care of a girl who now cannot be married off to anyone else (being no longer a virgin).
If her father demands retribution for the rape... well, tough luck, capital punishment for rape only extends to bethrothed girls.
If her father accepts the settlement, either the girl is forced into a loveless marriage/sex-savery with her rapist (taking the literal meaning) or she lives with her parents receiving a regular subsistence payment from her rapist; a continuous frequent reminder of why she cannot ever get married; why she cannot ever have children; cannot ever have consensual sex.
Imagine a girl wo is raped at twelve (before she was bethrothed), who then goes about her life with her compensation package... at some point she decides she wants to marry.
She asks the City Elders if she can marry... they consult Deutronomy... tough shit. By law, she is maried for life to her rapist (the guy in the next town over who pays her a stipend: assuming your apologist fantasy scenario) with no possibility of divorce.
She can't marry... because she is already legally married (to her rapist).
She can't divorce... because women can't really apply for divorce... and because her husband cannot divorce her.
She can't remarry freely... when her rapist eventally dies, she must marry his brother and have a kid with him ("be redeemed") or face starving to death.
She can't remarry even if her rapist dies and isn't survived by any brothers... because she isn't a virgin and only virgins can marry.
She can't have cosensual sex with an unbehrothed man... because that would shame her father and be a capital crime for both her and the man involved.
She can't ever have children... unless she has them with her rapist.
She can't ever have sex of any sort... unless she has it with her rapist, or maybe one of his brothers should he die.
But here's the real kicker... what happens if her rapist rapes her again?
Nothing... he can legally rape her as often as he wants... she's his property.
DEATH for adultery.
DEATH for fornication.
DEATH for gays.
SEX SLAVERY (or lives of loveless misery) for rape victims.
...but moneray fines and ownership of their victim for child rapists. WTF?
Anyone who defends this bullshit is clinically insane.
The Luke
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McWay,
This is why I'm the only person willing to engage with you, your deliberately selective reading comprehension... and you're wearing even my patience pretty thin.
Let's look at the entire passage so context is no longer an issue.
It's basically a short canon of sexual morals, with the final chapters dealing specifically with sex crimes. I've even used a couple of translations that back away from the use of the word "rape", so I'm being as fair as possible...
22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
...assuming we're not talking about rape, but consensual sex, that still dictates DEATH FOR ADULTERERS.
And, this is a problem, because.........
It appears you forget the serious ramifications that adultery carried in the ancient Near Eastern World. You may think it's something petty. But, they did not, for good reasons.
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
...this does seem to refer to rape, but giving the benefit of the doubt, let's assume this is once again a simple act of consensual adultery, then it dictates DEATH FOR ADULTERY. The only difference being that a woman cannot claim she was raped if she was inside the city at the time of the rape/adultery.
That's ridiculous. A woman who's been raped, more often than not, would have visible signs of such.
Now think about this, it's not too difficult to figure the three possible scenarios:
1-It was an act of consensual adultery... then the verse DICTATES DEATH FOR BOTH ADULTERERS (which is
consistent with the previous verse)
2-It was actually a rape and the woman wasn't able to alert anyone; the rapist used force/violence/threat to silence her... then the verse dictates death for the rapist, and DEATH FOR THE RAPED WOMAN just in case it was an act of consensual adultery
3-There is another scenario... a much more disturbing one... bare with me:
Say a thirteen year-old girl is sold as a sex-slave/wife to an elderly man (in accordance ith Jewish custom of the time). He gets old... she gets lonely... at 16 she meets a nice 16-year-old boy... they fall in love... they meet in secret and promise to marry just as soon as her doddery old impotent husband dies... but one night, while renewing their clandestine promise, hormones get the better of them as so often happens with besotted immature teenagers.
But they get caught.
Notwithstanding your feeble attempt to piece together an unlikely scenario, that's adultery, which means both get put to death, end of story.
Scenario 2, the woman is given the benefit of the doubt, especially with physical signs of force. Therefore, the rapist ALONE gets exectued.
Realising that he is facing death by stoning for adultery, the 16-year-old boy lies... he claims he raped the girl, hoping to spare her from stoning and let her off scot-free... a selfless lie for love.
Condoning lying again, and now adultery? I thought you were the one with the supposedly superior morals.
The Council of City Elders has to deliberate.
Should they let the girl go and only stone the boy to death as a rapist, or should they stone both of them as adulterers...? ...no one is sure what to do. So they consult Deuteronomy.
Tough shit... no one heard her cry out... so BOTH ARE STONED TO DEATH FOR ADULTERY.
Guess this rule must have been very tough for women whose only neighbour was deaf... anyone could rape them with impunity; if they reported it they'd be stoned alongside their attacker.
Yet another ridiculous and highly unlikely scenario, you try to make to make your feeble take stick.
22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
25:27 If a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die ... For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.If a woman is raped in the country, then only the man shall die (since there was no one to hear her if she cried out.)
22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
...even this passage (both translations above) doesn't mean what you think it means. It could be that this was another example of the situation above.
It means that your claim that rape victims got put to death was supremely false.
It merely asserts a man's property rights over his wife/bethrothed... it DOES NOT dictate death for ALL rape (as you insist), only death for the rape of another man's wife/betrothed. There is no protection for unbethrothed women in this passage.
Earth to Luke, I never claimed that it meant death for all rape. In fact, I explained some time ago that, for non-betrothed women, their care is the ONLY REASON the rapist is kept alive.
22:28-29
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife.
If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her.
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
...read that carefully. It says that rapists only receive the death penalty if the victim is not betrothed.
I know that, genius!! Again, I'M THE ONE, who pointed out that material care for the woman was the SOLE impetus for sparing her assailant.
That still doesn't save your silly behind from the fact that you INTENTIONALLY make a false statement about rape victims being put to death.
If you rape a woman who is someone else's property you are put to death... but if she isn't promised as property to someone else... well then it's just a fine to her default owner (her father) and a financially binding settlement of care.
It does NOT stipulate that there be some sort of sexless marriage-in-name-only arrangement as you claim, that is pure apologist fantasy
Wrong!!! First, the marriage doesn't even have to take place. Second, the stipulations are that the rapist provide for her food, clothing, and lodging.
Third, in ancient Israel, the betrothment is effectively the marriage (which is why betrothed women, who screw around are charged with adultery). But, there's a GAP between betrothment and the wedding ceremony, which lasts AT LEAST a year. During that time the broom-to-be CANNOT have sex with his prospective wife.
One extreme example is Rachel, who was betrothed to Jacob. He worked 14 YEARS to pay her dowry. But, he couldn't touch her, until his servitude was completed.
But consider what it does allow:
-men who can afford it can rape any unbethrothed girl they want with impunity
-the rape victims can be forced into a loveless marriage at best and a form of sex slavery at worst (assuming her father enforces such)
DEAD WRONG, yet again, Luke. If a marriage can be "loveless", then it's safe to say it can be sexless, especially if they are living in separate homes (as is often the case today with separated couples, that are STILL legally married).
Your futile attempts to paint this as some form of sex slavery have been thoroughly dismantled, yet again.
Now imagine the situation wherein a rich man rapes an unbethrothed CHILD (because girls are bethrothed at thirteen in this society, an "unbethrothed maiden" is a girl younger than 13), but offers to pay the fine.
Then, that would be tanamount to what we call today statutory RAPE. Guess what that means for the assailant......DEATH!!!! Marriage to children (i.e. girls not of marrying age) is forbidden.
If her father is poor, he must accept the settlement as he cannot afford to take care of a girl who now cannot be married off to anyone else (being no longer a virgin).
Says who? The rapist would be put to DEATH. Therefore, (albeit at, perhaps, a lower dowry), the young lady can be married, when she reaches proper age.
If her father demands retribution for the rape... well, tough luck, capital punishment for rape only extends to bethrothed girls.
If her father accepts the settlement, either the girl is forced into a loveless marriage/sex-savery with her rapist (taking the literal meaning) or she lives with her parents receiving a regular subsistence payment from her rapist; a continuous frequent reminder of why she cannot ever get married; why she cannot ever have children; cannot ever have consensual sex.
The priority here is her material care, her emotional well-being (while considered) comes secondary.
There is NO marriage for an underage girl to her assailant.
Raping girls, at the very least, would fall under those abominations that Israel's neighbors did, which was barred, and punishable BY DEATH!!!
Plus, by your scenario, there are but two punishments for rape:
But, since underage girls can't get married, guess what's left for the rapist............DEATH!!!
Imagine a girl wo is raped at twelve (before she was bethrothed), who then goes about her life with her compensation package... at some point she decides she wants to marry.
She asks the City Elders if she can marry... they consult Deutronomy... tough shit. By law, she is maried for life to her rapist (the guy in the next town over who pays her a stipend: assuming your apologist fantasy scenario) with no possibility of divorce.
She can't marry... because she is already legally married (to her rapist).
She can't divorce... because women can't really apply for divorce... and because her husband cannot divorce her.
She can't remarry freely... when her rapist eventally dies, she must marry his brother and have a kid with him ("be redeemed") or face starving to death.
She can't remarry even if her rapist dies and isn't survived by any brothers... because she isn't a virgin and only virgins can marry.
She can't have cosensual sex with an unbehrothed man... because that would shame her father and be a capital crime for both her and the man involved.
She can't ever have children... unless she has them with her rapist.
She can't ever have sex of any sort... unless she has it with her rapist, or maybe one of his brothers should he die.
But here's the real kicker... what happens if her rapist rapes her again?
Nothing... he can legally rape her as often as he wants... she's his property.
Not quite!!! He was spared, only to ensure that the woman has given material care. But, the dowry's already been paid. And, since the Lord stated explicitly that Israel was not to deal treacherously with their wives, guess what punishment is left for the rapist (now twice convicted).......
DEATH for adultery.
DEATH for fornication.
DEATH for gays.
SEX SLAVERY (or lives of loveless misery) for rape victims.
...but moneray fines and ownership of their victim for child rapists. WTF?
Anyone who defends this bullshit is clinically insane.
The Luke
The only BS here is this rock-headed scenario you just painted. The laws of marriage apply to ADULT WOMEN (or at least, women of proper marrying age). Any rape of an underage girl would result in but ONE punishment for the assailant, DEATH!!!
Once again, when your initial and utterly ridiculous claims get taken apart, you resort to concocting some gibberish that's even more assinine, in a futile attempt to save face.
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Notwithstanding your feeble attempt to piece together an unlikely scenario, that's adultery, which means both get put to death, end of story.
...and this thinking makes you different from modern day Muslim fundamentalists, how?
I rest my case.
The Luke
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...and this thinking makes you different from modern day Muslim fundamentalists, how?
I rest my case.
The Luke
You erroneously tried to paint that particular scenario as an example of rape, to support your false claim that rape victims were put to death. That is simply NOT the case, as has been shown to you REPEATEDLY.
This issue was about Mosaic law being essentially Shariah law (which simply isn't the case at all), not your whimpering about laws not allowing people to screw around, spreading disease and dysfunction, and go unpunished.
Of course, that would lead one to ask, exactly what should be done with folks who commited such acts, endangering themselves, their families, and their countries?
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You erroneously tried to paint that particular scenario as an example of rape, to support your false claim that rape victims were put to death. That is simply NOT the case, as has been shown to you REPEATEDLY.
This issue was about Mosaic law being essentially Shariah law (which simply isn't the case at all), not your whimpering about laws not allowing people to screw around, spreading disease and dysfunction, and go unpunished.
Of course, that would lead one to ask, exactly what should be done with folks who commited such acts, endangering themselves, their families, and their countries?
Eh... what about education?
Why is Yahweh always ordering the deaths of people who have committed no real crime?
Death for adulterers; it doesn't say anything about whether the married people involved were in arranged marriages... or unhappy marriages... or abusive marriages... just plain old kill kill kill: no exceptions.
Is adultery still wrong if it refers to a woman who was sold into sex-slavery at a young age to a much older man? What if either the wife/husband was asexual; impotent or otherwise uninterested/unable sexually... and gave permission for the other party to seek sex elsewhere?
Why is this divine being so capricious and unyielding in his decrees?
Death for gays? Why? Because they spread disease? Even monogamous gays?
Why does this all-knowing thundercloud never tell his people: "Wash your hands!" "Wash your privates!" "Arranged marriages cause suffering!"
Instead we get all this bullshit about:
-menstruating women having to sleep outside the city walls; (where the smell of blood attracts wolves, bears and lions)
-no work on Sunday; (enforced to the point that children can't even play or climb trees)
-no eating shellfish; (no list of which species are affected by the Red Tide organism; just a simplistic blanket ban)
-don't plough your field using an ox and an ass at the same time; (why not?)
Aren't these ridiculous blanket simplifications proof positive that this god; this angry Old Testament thundercloud is the product of man's imagination?
McWay, watch one of those documentaries about Afghanistan under the Taliban.
Watch a family of women weeping because their father has died and the only person who is willing to take them in or feed them is a 65 year-old neighbour who insists upon marrying their 11 year-old daughter as recompense. Or a starving homeless child being stoned to death for stealing an apple.
Shariah Law and Old Testament Law are the same thing... there is no meaningful difference.
You keep claiming there is... but you can't find an example.
Face it; Moses and his canon of bullshit rules is NO DIFFERENT THAN THE TALIBAN.
The Luke
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McWay,
This is why I'm the only person willing to engage with you, your deliberately selective reading comprehension... and you're wearing even my patience pretty thin.
The Luke
I just don't have the time for much posting, other than posting the odd one or two sentence reply. I don't mind chatting/debating/arguing with mcway, but I agree with the selective reading/comprehension part. His constant references to Hitler, who was more than likely a deranged theist not an atheist, and his misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the nature and evolutions of morals, as per the video I posted in another thread, are fairly annoying.
I don't participate in debates regarding details of the bible for the most part because there is zero proof any gods exist, much less the hands-on god of the bible. The logical conclusion is that all religious texts are constructs of the human mind and nothing more until proved otherwise.
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Eh... what about education?
Education on what, "How to screw around on your wife/husband"? "VD and me"?
The education is simple: You avoid engaging in behavior that spread disease; you avoid disease. You avoid engaging in behavior that causes dysfunction; you avoid dysfunction.
Why is Yahweh always ordering the deaths of people who have committed no real crime?
I missed the memo that declared YOU the arbitrator as to what's a "real crime" and what is not.
Death for adulterers; it doesn't say anything about whether the married people involved were in arranged marriages... or unhappy marriages... or abusive marriages... just plain old kill kill kill: no exceptions.
First, arranged marriages were how it was done, because the primary issue is BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR A FAMILY, not merely being driven on emotion.
Your "plain old kill kill kill" line is a card-carrying display of your laughable Biblical ignorance.
Is adultery still wrong if it refers to a woman who was sold into sex-slavery at a young age to a much older man? What if either the wife/husband was asexual; impotent or otherwise uninterested/unable sexually... and gave permission for the other party to seek sex elsewhere?
Yep!! Next question!!!
Why is this divine being so capricious and unyielding in his decrees?
Death for gays? Why? Because they spread disease? Even monogamous gays?
Yep!!! As for "monogamous gays", that's the equivalent of a thief robbing the same 7-11 store repeatedly. The act is wrong, regardless of how many entities are involved.
Why does this all-knowing thundercloud never tell his people: "Wash your hands!" "Wash your privates!" "Arranged marriages cause suffering!"
Once again, you've shown that you have little clue as to what you speak.
The hygiene laws of the Israelites are spelled out in the book of Leviticus (I guess the "EvilBible" folks didn't tell you about that one). Or, you (in foolhardy haste) simply didn't read it.
As for your flap about arrange marriages....
Abraham arranged the marriage of his son, Isaac, to Rebekah.
Gen. 24:64-67
And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel.
For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.
And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done.
And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.
Isaac and Rebekah were pretty happy, from all accounts. Same goes for Ruth and Boaz.
Arranged marriages DO NOT EQUATE to loveless ones. Therefore, another pitiful claim of yours bites the dust.
Instead we get all this bullshit about:
-menstruating women having to sleep outside the city walls; (where the smell of blood attracts wolves, bears and lions)
-no work on Sunday; (enforced to the point that children can't even play or climb trees)
-no eating shellfish; (no list of which species are affected by the Red Tide organism; just a simplistic blanket ban)
-don't plough your field using an ox and an ass at the same time; (why not?)
Aren't these ridiculous blanket simplifications proof positive that this god; this angry Old Testament thundercloud is the product of man's imagination?
Nope!! One, the mensturating women thing is about HYGIENE (Weren't you just complaining about the Israelites not being told about such?).
Two, the others are dietary and other laws, to maximize health and happiness among Israel's ranks.
McWay, watch one of those documentaries about Afghanistan under the Taliban.
Watch a family of women weeping because their father has died and the only person who is willing to take them in or feed them is a 65 year-old neighbour who insists upon marrying their 11 year-old daughter as recompense. Or a starving homeless child being stoned to death for stealing an apple.
Shariah Law and Old Testament Law are the same thing... there is no meaningful difference.
You keep claiming there is... but you can't find an example.
Face it; Moses and his canon of bullshit rules is NO DIFFERENT THAN THE TALIBAN.
The Luke
What you can't quite get through that skull of yours is that the Mosaic law is hardly Shariah law, despite your repeatedly stupid claims to the contrary.
As for your Taliban example, your lack of reading ability pops up again.
Stealing isn't a capital offense. And, the laws of Moses make it clear that, among other things, "When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands."
And "Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." ; Along with "Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless."
The provisions are clear as to how Israel was to care for the orphans, widows, and those who are destitute. And, it does NOT involve that foolishness you just cited.
As far as that marriage scenario goes, such would NOT occur under Mosaic law. One, the first priority would be to have other members of their family take them into their care.
Two, the women would have the option of going to the temple and dedicating themselves there.
Third, no 65-year-old would be marrying an eleven-year-old girl, as (1) that wasn't the proper marrying age, and (2) most ANE culture played by the first-in-first-out rule, regarding how the daughters got married.
You continue to make excuse and to justify misbehavior and be an irresponsible fool, without consequence. That's at the heart of all this bleating of yours.
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I just don't have the time for much posting, other than posting the odd one or two sentence reply. I don't mind chatting/debating/arguing with mcway, but I agree with the selective reading/comprehension part. His constant references to Hitler, who was more than likely a deranged theist not an atheist, and his misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the nature and evolutions of morals, as per the video I posted in another thread, are fairly annoying.
See, any sensible person reading your posts would agree... you are just as warped and divorced from reality as the Taliban you aspire to live like..
The Luke
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See, any sensible person reading your posts would agree... you are just as warped and divorced from reality as the Taliban you aspire to live like..
The Luke
"Any sensible person" = another atheist skeptic....This coming from someone, looking for excuses to justify stealing, lying, and now adultery......WHATEVER!!!
The simple fact is that your claims about my aspiring to live like the Taliban are as mind-numbingly stupid, as most of the mess you've posted here to date.
And, the last person that needs to be highlighting a comment about "selective reading/comprehension" is YOU. You will recall that YOU are the one, who LIED, by claiming that rape victims (per Biblical law) were to be executed by citing Deu. 22:23-24, WHILE INTENTIONALLY OMITTING verse 25, which states that such is not true.
The most glaring difference between Shariah law and Mosaic law (at least, in terms of sexual impropriety) is that in the former, the woman is presumed GUILTY; in the latter, she is presumed INNOCENT.
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"Any sensible person" = another atheist skeptic....WHATEVER!!!
Interesting that it appears you are attempting to attach a negative connotation to one being a skeptic. There is nothing negative about questioning the way in which we perceive the world in order to acquire a better understanding of ourselves and our surroundings. The converse could be said of those who merely accept things for what they are, without asking 'why' things are the way they are.
Human advancements have been made only through people being skeptical of the status quo and seeking new explanations for that which they wish to understand more comprehensively.
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Interesting that it appears you are attempting to attach a negative connotation to one being a skeptic. There is nothing negative about questioning the way in which we perceive the world in order to acquire a better understanding of ourselves and our surroundings.
Not really!! I simply recognize that as Luke's feeble attempt to solicit support for his flimsy musings. I'm sure that he doesn't think that Loco or STella are sensible, when they agree with my postings.
The converse could be said of those who merely accept things for what they are, without asking 'why' things are the way they are.
I agree. That's why I study these issues for myself. That's how I've found that a number of religious practices have no basis in Scripture. And, it's also how I've found that a large amount of accusations about Scripture are false (as I've shown here and elsewhere).
A prime example is one, in which Luke and others have dropped the ball repeatedly: The Nativity of Jesus Christ.
Falsehoods/inconclusive items include (but aren't limited, too):
- Exactly three wise men finding Jesus.
- Wise men and shepherds, seeing Him simultaneously or immediately after each other.
- Christ being born Dec. 25.
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I agree. That's why I study these issues for myself. That's how I've found that a number of religious practices have no basis in Scripture. And, it's also how I've found that a large amount of accusations about Scripture are false (as I've shown here and elsewhere).
Good for you MCWAY. It's good to see someone who can justify their beliefs through gained knowledge and not through mere indoctrination and cultural bias. I will admit, that you definitely know your scripture.
I still don't agree with your religious beliefs, or like the way you come across on the boards sometimes (it's hard to tell someone's demeanor on a message board though ), but I definitely respect your biblical knowledge and the personal integrity you appear to have in these matters.