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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: GymTime on April 20, 2010, 10:35:53 PM
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So, I've been trying to find a way to better hit my upper middle back (traps). Any good suggestions? I already do heavy barbell shrugs, but they seem to only work the very top part of my traps. Cant seem to hit the traps ALL the way down my back.
See how in the pic below his upper middle back just "pops" out. Mine is too flat in my opinion.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/Scott-11053-traps.jpg)
do rows standing with the rope attachment from over head cable
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My UMB has been really sore the last couple days after doing one-arm DB rows.
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well , unless you are carrying around the bodyweight of mike francois, your upper middle back will NEVER pop out like that
but what i believe works are controlled 3/4 deadlifts on the smith machine with a flexing of the upper back (roll your shoulders back) at the top of teh movement
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Seated cable row to the lower chest pulling all the way back until your scapula are retracted and deadlifts.
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thanks for duplicating my post , knob
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thanks for duplicating my post , knob
How in the fuck can I duplicate your post considering I made this video over 2 years ago?
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How in the fuck can I duplicate your post considering I made this video over 2 years ago?
o wow your version was seated ::) your still a hack and a douche
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Rows just slightly bent over in the beginning of a back workout.
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o wow your version was seated ::) your still a hack and a douche
Oh for fucks sake!
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Rows at different angles, light shrugs leaning slightly forward (pulling your shoulder blades back as opposed to *up*) and deadlift.. with a lighter weight, so you can really squeeze the area.
It sounds like you don’t have much of a mind muscle connection. Its all about feel. Lighten up learn to properly contact those target muscles and feel them working. I have another really good exercise that nails that area specifically, really well. I just started doing it. But I do not feel like typing that much out.
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High pulls or if that doesn't cut it, try the dirtier versions of barbell or dumbbell row were your torso stays more upright.
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as far as rolling your shoulder blades back at the top of a shrug...i heard this is dangerous. Can anyone verify it is or isnt? ive always been told to shrug straight up and never roll the shrug at the top.
There shouldn’t be any *rolling* involved. Just pull your shoulder blades back in a straight line. Lean forward just a bit. It directly targets that area.
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Seated Wide Grip Rows to the sternum, push back with your elbows like you are trying to get them to touch each other behind your back. Works the mid-traps quite well.
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tons of ways. You just have to be creative and not afraid to look stupid
- heavy standing cleans (where you have to lean a little forward to start the lift)
- seated wide grip rows (either with the pulldown bar or the funny looking one with 2 handles on each end) to bottom of the sternum
- reverse pec-deck flys (basically you're sitting the wrong way with your chest up against the seat and using your elbows to bring the pads back)
- front levers (use a smith machine or set the barbell about middle height on the squat rack, and pull your body up at an angle)
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You may want to consider lowering your bodyfat just so you can see some muscle in the first fucking place. Duuuuhhhhhh.....
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this looks and feels like it might do the trick.
as far as rolling your shoulder blades back at the top of a shrug...i heard this is dangerous. Can anyone verify it is or isnt? ive always been told to shrug straight up and never roll the shrug at the top.
that movement is junk for what you want to do.
middle back and rear delt two differnt things. secondly you wont be able to go heavy enough to properly stimualte the mid back as those muscles can handle a shit load of weight.
like hammer said, seated cable row using the close grip attachment, but bring the bar up to mid chest level, not below the rib cage.
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i think ive seen dorian do them this way in some of his vids. he was using dumbbells i think.
ive tried doing this, but its hard as f**k. i think as you said earlier there is a poor mind/muscle connection for this body part. i always try to squeeze like hell on every movement to feel it in the muscle im targetting. i get better results that way than just lifting heavy all the time. i might try doing this movement again though and really going light until i get some better control over it.
thx
That's the key thing that will make the difference, to lighten the load until you get a real feel for an exercise and all of its variants.
The contraction will become second nature.. then you can progressively increase the weight. The muscle will let you know what heavy is… once you’re feeling the load properly.
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2:42 of this video shows what some people are trying to explain. It's all about retracting the scapula and squeezing.
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I was just thinking about this yesterday as it was back day.I kinda prefer seated wide grip rows to say t bars as it's a bit easier to control the weight and focus on really squeezing your scapula/bringing the elbows as far back as you can. Heavy deads and whatever else are done first, but i finish with a couple of sets of these.
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deadlifts................
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Rows at different angles, light shrugs leaning slightly forward (pulling your shoulder blades back as opposed to *up*) and deadlift.. with a lighter weight, so you can really squeeze the area.
It sounds like you don’t have much of a mind muscle connection. Its all about feel. Lighten up learn to properly contact those target muscles and feel them working. I have another really good exercise that nails that area specifically, really well. I just started doing it. But I do not feel like typing that much out.
x2
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Haha that video is great. "Careful, or you'll end up with mass, but not enough detail." Watch out for this Getbiggers!!
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You don't get a back like that from squeezing light weights.
Barbell bent over rows and deadlifts are excellent choices.
Put 200 lbs on these lifts over time and you will see transformations.
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Guys, here, did a good job.
I would add to keep your elbows high when you do seated rows. This kind of bar can help, too, as it allows you to pull your arms back farther and you elbows closer together.
(http://www.inspirefitnesssolutions.co.uk/images/primary_extra_large_img/91~parallel-grip-lat-pulldown-bar-(wide-grip).jpg)
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Steroids.
Never see a natural bodyuilder with lower/mid traps that pops out anything like that.
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Steroids.
Never see a natural bodyuilder with lower/mid traps that pops out anything like that.
Wow really!? In your opinion, what compounds really target the lower/mid trap area? ::)
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All about squeezing the shoulder blades together on most back exercises, especially rowing ones
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I've always found that if you have the woman's legs on your shoulder and you are leaning forward, to a degree where her lower back is off the bed, it hits her lower back real well. In fact afterwards she'll be screaming "my neck, my back..."
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Sorry to say bro there are just some muscles on a natural that will never "pop" like that. It's the cold hard truth. That's why guys use steroids. You can achieve a decent, impressive physique naturally but as a natural there are some things you'll never achieve. Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass like a pro or juiced up bodybuilder don't expect to look like them. It's naive and will set you up for disappointment. Obviously the idiots in this thread arguing over what exercise is best are too inexperienced or too stupid to realize this. If you want to look like a juicer you'll have to use drugs like a juice does. Otherwise we'd all be training naturally if we could achieve the same results. 3/4 of the people giving you advice on here have probably never trained on drugs so they don't understand that. Or they have never trained long enough naturally to realize what a real natural can attain without drugs.
I love seeing all these natural guys in the gym doing countless amounts of shrugs thinking they are going to have huge traps one day. In my experience and in my opinion huge, muscular traps are one of the biggest dead giveaways a guy is on the juice. A natural just can't develop his traps like a guy on drugs with the ability to put on more mass can. There is no special exercise to make a muscle "pop". It either gets bigger through hard heavy work or it doesn't. Any idiot that says otherwise is just that. This whole nonsense of bringing up a "lagging" body part is something that steroid using bodybuilders can do. Not naturals. Or atleast not to the same degree. Your muscles just don't grow as fast as a natural.
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Wow really!? In your opinion, what compounds really target the lower/mid trap area? ::)
why are you rolling eyes at me retard.
a natural will never see that type of development no matter what he does. All pro bodybuilders has that cause they are pumped with roids not because the do some megical exercise totarget it. The mid traps are involved in any type of rowing and alot in deadlifts...
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Sorry to say bro there are just some muscles on a natural that will never "pop" like that. It's the cold hard truth. That's why guys use steroids. You can achieve a decent, impressive physique naturally but as a natural there are some things you'll never achieve. Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass like a pro or juiced up bodybuilder don't expect to look like them. It's naive and will set you up for disappointment. Obviously the idiots in this thread arguing over what exercise is best are too inexperienced or too stupid to realize this. If you want to look like a juicer you'll have to use drugs like a juice does. Otherwise we'd all be training naturally if we could achieve the same results. 3/4 of the people giving you advice on here have probably never trained on drugs so they don't understand that. Or they have never trained long enough naturally to realize what a real natural can attain without drugs.
I love seeing all these natural guys in the gym doing countless amounts of shrugs thinking they are going to have huge traps one day. In my experience and in my opinion huge, muscular traps are one of the biggest dead giveaways a guy is on the juice. A natural just can't develop his traps like a guy on drugs with the ability to put on more mass can. There is no special exercise to make a muscle "pop". It either gets bigger through hard heavy work or it doesn't. Any idiot that says otherwise is just that. This whole nonsense of bringing up a "lagging" body part is something that steroid using bodybuilders can do. Not naturals. Or atleast not to the same degree. Your muscles just don't grow as fast as a natural.
I think SimplyHuge realizes that drugs and favorable genes are necessary for that kind of development. If you don't have these advantages to your disposal, then it's all about exercise selection, and proper execution. You don't have much room for error when a hardgainer. Some exercises are good, a few great, and the rest are completely worthless.
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I think SimplyHuge realizes that drugs and favorable genes are necessary for that kind of development. If you don't have these advantages to your disposal, then it's all about exercise selection, and proper execution. You don't have much room for error when a hardgainer. Some exercises are good, a few great, and the rest are completely worthless.
Without a doubt but SimplyHuge is nowhere near big enough naturally to be worrying about "popping" certain muscles, especially that area of the body. He's got a long way to go as a natural before he has to worry about stuff like that. Eat, grow, lift heavy.......rinse and repeat.
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Sorry to say bro there are just some muscles on a natural that will never "pop" like that. It's the cold hard truth. That's why guys use steroids. You can achieve a decent, impressive physique naturally but as a natural there are some things you'll never achieve. Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass like a pro or juiced up bodybuilder don't expect to look like them. It's naive and will set you up for disappointment. Obviously the idiots in this thread arguing over what exercise is best are too inexperienced or too stupid to realize this. If you want to look like a juicer you'll have to use drugs like a juice does. Otherwise we'd all be training naturally if we could achieve the same results. 3/4 of the people giving you advice on here have probably never trained on drugs so they don't understand that. Or they have never trained long enough naturally to realize what a real natural can attain without drugs.
I love seeing all these natural guys in the gym doing countless amounts of shrugs thinking they are going to have huge traps one day. In my experience and in my opinion huge, muscular traps are one of the biggest dead giveaways a guy is on the juice. A natural just can't develop his traps like a guy on drugs with the ability to put on more mass can. There is no special exercise to make a muscle "pop". It either gets bigger through hard heavy work or it doesn't. Any idiot that says otherwise is just that. This whole nonsense of bringing up a "lagging" body part is something that steroid using bodybuilders can do. Not naturals. Or atleast not to the same degree. Your muscles just don't grow as fast as a natural.
I agree.. natural training is for the birds.. still, there is an efficient way to train, steroids or not.
LOL… I don’t think he was using that pic of Mike Francois as something to aspire to.. he’s not that delusional . That’s one of the best back shots of all time. A natural will never *pop* like that you say? Hell, 99% of steroid users will never come close to that.
Francois was one of the very best...
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Do what i do.
10 sets of pullups with various hand combination. try and get 150 total
4 sets of heavy upright rows
4 sets of rear delts on a pec dec
4 sets of heavy deads supersetted with heavy shrugs after the last rep of deads.
then maybe a few other random sets of rows or tbar or soemthing else to finish up
Do that for bout a year and you should be thickend up.
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150 that's a shitload of pullups.
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Using the Hammer Strength pulldown, face the reverse direction and as you come down pull your elbows in and back.
(http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/equipment/lat-pulldowns/hammer-strength-lats-pulldown-12.jpg)
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150 that's a shitload of pullups.
You aint kidding but it sure does the job and frys the bis, forarms, back pretty good and you combine the rest of that workout with lots of good ole calories and that is growth heavin if intensity is right. Been doin that workout for bout 4 months might change it up again soon though.
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Sorry to say bro there are just some muscles on a natural that will never "pop" like that. It's the cold hard truth. That's why guys use steroids. You can achieve a decent, impressive physique naturally but as a natural there are some things you'll never achieve. Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass like a pro or juiced up bodybuilder don't expect to look like them. It's naive and will set you up for disappointment. Obviously the idiots in this thread arguing over what exercise is best are too inexperienced or too stupid to realize this. If you want to look like a juicer you'll have to use drugs like a juice does. Otherwise we'd all be training naturally if we could achieve the same results. 3/4 of the people giving you advice on here have probably never trained on drugs so they don't understand that. Or they have never trained long enough naturally to realize what a real natural can attain without drugs.
I love seeing all these natural guys in the gym doing countless amounts of shrugs thinking they are going to have huge traps one day. In my experience and in my opinion huge, muscular traps are one of the biggest dead giveaways a guy is on the juice. A natural just can't develop his traps like a guy on drugs with the ability to put on more mass can. There is no special exercise to make a muscle "pop". It either gets bigger through hard heavy work or it doesn't. Any idiot that says otherwise is just that. This whole nonsense of bringing up a "lagging" body part is something that steroid using bodybuilders can do. Not naturals. Or atleast not to the same degree. Your muscles just don't grow as fast as a natural.
X2
coincidentally, i read somewhere the other day that the traps have a higher density of steroid receptors then any other muscle in the body
i dont know how true that is
but the traps are certainly the dead giveaway that an individual started juicing
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Wow really!? In your opinion, what compounds really target the lower/mid trap area? ::)
dude there actually is some science behind the OP dumbass. Certain muscle groups have more testosterone receptors such as the delts, traps, and neck muscles.
Notice when a natty trains they often have well developed chest and quads but lack hamstrings for example. The fast twitch muscle fibers such as the hamstrings respond best to androgens like test and anadrol.
overdeveloped...
Delts
Neck
Traps
are the signs of roid use
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have your boyfriend "hit" your upper middle back instead of just holding your hips when hes behind you.
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interesting observation.
the only one that i dont agree with would be shoulders. seems like a lot of good naties have good shoulders from all the pressing.
That statement is very true my friend. And I am not talking about broad shoulders I am talking about THICK delts. No natural will ever have cannonball delts.
Calves, triceps, pecs, and quads can all be developed deccent while training natty. Delts traps biceps hamstrings CANT!
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dude there actually is some science behind the OP dumbass. Certain muscle groups have more testosterone receptors such as the delts, traps, and neck muscles.
Notice when a natty trains they often have well developed chest and quads but lack hamstrings for example. The fast twitch muscle fibers such as the hamstrings respond best to androgens like test and anadrol.
overdeveloped...
Delts
Neck
Traps
are the signs of roid use
That's just pure nonsense. My entire high school wrestling team all had very well developed shoulder girdles and necks.
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(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/08_arnold_filer_review_r.jpg)
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That's just pure nonsense. My entire high school wrestling team all had very well developed shoulder girdles and necks.
Wrestlers do a lot of bridge work..
Androgens tend to thicken the neck a bit without any direct work at all.
If you do basic compound lifts.. like the squat and deadlift.. androgens will thicken your neck a lot.
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So, I've been trying to find a way to better hit my upper middle back (traps). Any good suggestions? I already do heavy barbell shrugs, but they seem to only work the very top part of my traps. Cant seem to hit the traps ALL the way down my back.
See how in the pic below his upper middle back just "pops" out. Mine is too flat in my opinion.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/Scott-11053-traps.jpg)
why didnt you use a pic. of nasser to show your point in a clearer way >:(
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Pop goes the weasel...
Damn good observations and points in this thread. Juicy juice. That is key. That is all.
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hahaha, funny,,, i used to rely on bb rows all the time, deads of course along with pull-ups, those have to be in the core of a bb'n back plan,,
now the funny thing is, last week i started thinkin about doin low cable rows with the wide lat pldwn bar, and holdin real wide towrds the ends because i always do them close grip,,, well pull them low towards the belly button and popped out the chest, good squeeze and it was all upper back mid trap rhomboid area for me.
so yeah like some others posted on here those wide grip low rows hit'em real nice, gonna keep those in the routine for a bit.
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Wrestlers do a lot of bridge work..
Androgens tend to thicken the neck a bit without any direct work at all.
If you do basic compound lifts.. like the squat and deadlift.. androgens will thicken your neck a lot.
on the money.
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Uprights, medium grip.
Ray Mcneil and Yates had some of the best complete traps ever.
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Sorry to say bro there are just some muscles on a natural that will never "pop" like that. It's the cold hard truth. That's why guys use steroids. You can achieve a decent, impressive physique naturally but as a natural there are some things you'll never achieve. Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass like a pro or juiced up bodybuilder don't expect to look like them. It's naive and will set you up for disappointment. Obviously the idiots in this thread arguing over what exercise is best are too inexperienced or too stupid to realize this. If you want to look like a juicer you'll have to use drugs like a juice does. Otherwise we'd all be training naturally if we could achieve the same results. 3/4 of the people giving you advice on here have probably never trained on drugs so they don't understand that. Or they have never trained long enough naturally to realize what a real natural can attain without drugs.
I love seeing all these natural guys in the gym doing countless amounts of shrugs thinking they are going to have huge traps one day. In my experience and in my opinion huge, muscular traps are one of the biggest dead giveaways a guy is on the juice. A natural just can't develop his traps like a guy on drugs with the ability to put on more mass can. There is no special exercise to make a muscle "pop". It either gets bigger through hard heavy work or it doesn't. Any idiot that says otherwise is just that. This whole nonsense of bringing up a "lagging" body part is something that steroid using bodybuilders can do. Not naturals. Or atleast not to the same degree. Your muscles just don't grow as fast as a natural.
I had to copy and paste this into Microsoft Word. I've never really heard anyone come out and say it, but I've always believed it.
You watch a juiced bodybuilder "bring up a lagging bodypart" for the next show. What do you really see? What are you really seeing?
We have all seen the genetic freaks who don't even work out. Big huge calves, traps, delts, nice abs-- that's where the first statement rings true "Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass"-- but I have never seen a natty truly bring up a lagger. I've even seen heavy juicers bust their asses to try and bring up calves. That rarely even works.
Sad thing is; statements like these can kill the motivation for some hard workin' folks. Sad, but true...
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why didnt you use a pic. of nasser to show your point in a clearer way >:(
Because we've seen Nassers back.
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I had to copy and paste this into Microsoft Word. I've never really heard anyone come out and say it, but I've always believed it.
You watch a juiced bodybuilder "bring up a lagging bodypart" for the next show. What do you really see? What are you really seeing?
We have all seen the genetic freaks who don't even work out. Big huge calves, traps, delts, nice abs-- that's where the first statement rings true "Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass"-- but I have never seen a natty truly bring up a lagger. I've even seen heavy juicers bust their asses to try and bring up calves. That rarely even works.
Sad thing is; statements like these can kill the motivation for some hard workin' folks. Sad, but true...
It's not exactly some great, Jesus-like enlightenment to point out that nattys can't make the gains of steroid users.
However, nattys commonly have good enough arm and chest development so that it's obvious they work out. That said, from the back, most of these same guys don't look like they train at all.
Why? Because they either don't work their backs, or don't know how to do so properly. There's a difference between a lagging bodypart and one that isn't developed to its potential because you don't know how to train it.
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Tom Prince had good hamstrings and he was a great natural athlete.
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well , unless you are carrying around the bodyweight of mike francois, your upper middle back will NEVER pop out like that
but what i believe works are controlled 3/4 deadlifts on the smith machine with a flexing of the upper back (roll your shoulders back) at the top of teh movement
;)
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bent over barebll rows with a more narrow grip and slightly bent upwards
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shrugs with your head facing down?
E
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That's just pure nonsense. My entire high school wrestling team all had very well developed shoulder girdles and necks.
Yup. People who claim steroids make a certain bodypart "pop out" are just showing their ignorance. Hormones don't work that way - use some freakin common sense.
That said, traps and calves really are some of the most genetically pre-determined body parts. You can improve them, but if lack the genetics, they'll never "pop" and be outstanding points in your physique.
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Hmmm. I'm going to try this today. Thanks for the tip, Coach.
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Hmmm. I'm going to try this today. Thanks for the tip, Coach.
Couldn't you just use a rope?
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Couldn't you just use a rope?
We usually use a towel for grip strength. The knobs at the end of the ropes make it too easy to relax on the grip.
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Couldn't you just use a rope?
LOL! I didn't even realize he was using a towel until you pointed it out. Funnier since it says "towel" in the title. I just assumed you would use a rope so that's what I "made" myself see. I wouldn't consider doing any exercises with a towel.
What's with the towel, Coach?
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We usually use a towel for grip strength. The knobs at the end of the ropes make it too easy to relax on the grip.
But you're not training your grip. (Remember the wrist wraps for curls?)
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But you're not training your grip. (Remember the wrist wraps for curls?)
I was using the wraps when I was training for that contest (bodybuilding). When we train for strength, I will try to incorporate some kind of grip strength in most movements for my athletes and especially my fighters.
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I had to copy and paste this into Microsoft Word. I've never really heard anyone come out and say it, but I've always believed it.
You watch a juiced bodybuilder "bring up a lagging bodypart" for the next show. What do you really see? What are you really seeing?
We have all seen the genetic freaks who don't even work out. Big huge calves, traps, delts, nice abs-- that's where the first statement rings true "Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass"-- but I have never seen a natty truly bring up a lagger. I've even seen heavy juicers bust their asses to try and bring up calves. That rarely even works.
Sad thing is; statements like these can kill the motivation for some hard workin' folks. Sad, but true...
I've said it many times. People never change their proportions to any significant degree. Show me an advanced bb, natural or otherwise, who changed their proportions. Never happen, unless they were totally ignoring a bodypart before.
Now a natural who goes on the juice will most of the time increase their trap size and delt width as a response to the hormones. It's no myth, there is a certain androgen look and trap size is part of it.
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I was using the wraps when I was training for that contest (bodybuilding). When we train for strength, I will try to incorporate some kind of grip strength in most movements for my athletes and especially my fighters.
I just feel that your grip is a weak link when training the back. Your back muscles are far stronger than your grip and your grip will fail before your lats do. First things first. I train grips/forearms separately by doing wrist curls/wrist extension and those grip squeeze things. I started focusing on grip strength when I first started training with a gi many years ago. I don't train with a gi anymore but still do grip/forearm exercises.
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I've said it many times. People never change their proportions to any significant degree. Show me an advanced bb, natural or otherwise, who changed their proportions. Never happen, unless they were totally ignoring a bodypart before.
Now a natural who goes on the juice will most of the time increase their trap size and delt width as a response to the hormones. It's no myth, there is a certain androgen look and trap size is part of it.
arnolds calves
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arnolds calves
People always talk about Arnold's calves but to me they were always good and in proportion. Great insertions too. Post some pics where they look like shit and seriously lagging compared to the rest.
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It's not exactly some great, Jesus-like enlightenment to point out that nattys can't make the gains of steroid users.
However, nattys commonly have good enough arm and chest development so that it's obvious they work out. That said, from the back, most of these same guys don't look like they train at all.
Why? Because they either don't work their backs, or don't know how to do so properly. There's a difference between a lagging bodypart and one that isn't developed to its potential because you don't know how to train it.
qft
backs a tough muscle to get the mind into, takes a while of doing it right to get it right
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People always talk about Arnold's calves but to me they were always good and in proportion. Great insertions too. Post some pics where they look like shit and seriously lagging compared to the rest.
ok here are his calves before he really focussed on them:
(http://www.superskinnyme.com/Images/slim_calves.jpg)
here they are after he took my advices:
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek13_2.jpg)
(http://www.musclesprod.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/calves.jpg)
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I've said it many times. People never change their proportions to any significant degree. Show me an advanced bb, natural or otherwise, who changed their proportions. Never happen, unless they were totally ignoring a bodypart before.
Now a natural who goes on the juice will most of the time increase their trap size and delt width as a response to the hormones. It's no myth, there is a certain androgen look and trap size is part of it.
Spot as usual. I noticed that it's the trap/delt size and roundness that's a sure sign of heavy hormone use.
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ok here are his calves before he really focussed on them:
(http://www.superskinnyme.com/Images/slim_calves.jpg)
Even in that pic it shows a good "base."
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Even in that pic it shows a good "base."
;D