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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on April 26, 2010, 11:07:17 AM
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Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status
Rasmussen ^ | 1/26/10 | Staff
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 2:05:19 PM by Bokababe
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Arizona Governor Jan Brewer last week signed a new law into effect that authorizes local police to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 60% of voters nationwide favor such a law, while 31% are opposed.
Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Republicans support the law along with 62% of voters not affiliated with either major party. Democratic voters are evenly divided on the measure.
At the same time, however, 58% of all voters are at least somewhat concerned that “efforts to identify and deport illegal immigrants will also end up violating the civil rights of some U.S. citizens.” That figure includes 29% who are Very Concerned about possible civil rights violations.....
(Excerpt) Read more at rasmussenreports.com ...
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Obama is really playing with freaking fire on this one.
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Police have too much power as it is. Why give them more?
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How many Americans are willing to accept a law requiring them to carry proof of citizenship, birth certificate, passport book, passport card, Naturalization Certificate, etc.?
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How many Americans are willing to accept a law requiring them to carry proof of citizenship, birth certificate, passport book, passport card, Naturalization Certificate, etc.?
Not me.
In Germany several decades ago, they used to ask, "Where are your papers?" That wasn`t much fun.
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So we just let anyone and everyone simply floor the border and sing Kumbaya?
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How many Americans are willing to accept a law requiring them to carry proof of citizenship, birth certificate, passport book, passport card, Naturalization Certificate, etc.?
Not me, unless it was someting like a driver's license.
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i'm all for it....and ya dont need papers...a simple drivers licence could be used as a national ID card...with additional info on it
i mean we now have 50 gig jump drives for our putters...ya mean we cant put a little extra info embedded into a licence?
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So we just let anyone and everyone simply floor the border and sing Kumbaya?
No, but you and I shouldn't have to keep our immigration status on us and neither should anybody else. This law potentially opens a box that will never be closed. In New York are you supposed to have your ID on you at all times? Some states you are already required to do so in case you are stopped by police for whatever reason...I have issues with that myself.
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I'm sorry, but doing nothing on this has gotten us to this point.
Do you guys have a better solution when the fed gov wont do dick and the taxpayers are getting robbed blind by these vermin?
I dont know where you guys live, but near me, these invaders have destroyed neighborhoods, killed school budgets, filled up jails, and have created a perfect storm for taxpayers.
Unless you guys have a better solution to rid ourselves of these people, I see no problem with the AZ law.
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Police have too much power as it is. Why give them more?
Exactly, as much as we need to fix our problem with illegal Mexicans.... This isn't the way to do it...
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I'm sorry, but doing nothing on this has gotten us to this point.
Do you guys have a better solution when the fed gov wont do dick and the taxpayers are getting robbed blind by these vermin?
I dont know where you guys live, but near me, these invaders have destroyed neighborhoods, killed school budgets, filled up jails, and have created a perfect storm for taxpayers.
Unless you guys have a better solution to rid ourselves of these people, I see no problem with the AZ law.
Yeah...enforce the ones already on the books. Kind of like there is no reason that we need more gun laws. I also don't find the minutemen people to be racists like they are depicted in the media, but that is another discussion entirely.
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From what I understand, this law mirrored a Fed Law already on the books.
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So we just let anyone and everyone simply floor the border and sing Kumbaya?
333386,
Do you favor letting local police require that you carry proof of citizenship, birth certificate, passport book, passport card, Naturalization Certificate, etc.?
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From what I understand, this law mirrored a Fed Law already on the books.
If you're referring to the Patriot Act, it's wrong too. Police shouldn't be allowed to harass us without reason.
Don't get me wrong, I like what this bill will achieve...
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No, but that is not what the law is intended to do and is being misconstrued.
I already gave the scenarios this law will apply to and i have no problem with it.
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Couldn't they just stop anyone for any reason and give the official reason that they suspected they were illegal? I mean, there are also non citizens who are white. :o
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I find it interesting that the percentage almost equates to the white anglo-saxon population exactly.
Race and Hispanic or Latino origin Percentage Number
White alone
(Not including the 29.2 million
White Hispanic and Latino Americans: 65.4% or 198.9 million) 75.0% 228.2 million
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race 15.4% 46.9 million
Black or African American alone 12.4% 37.6 million
Some other race alone 4.9% 15.0 million
Asian alone 4.4% 13.4 million
Two or more races 2.3% 7.0 million
American Indian or Alaska Native alone 0.8% 2.4 million
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander alone 0.14% 0.43 million
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maybe we should all get national ID cards. Or, better yet, some sort of chip. that would be super convenient!
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Couldn't they just stop anyone for any reason and give the official reason that they suspected they were illegal? I mean, there are also non citizens who are white. :o
cant they do that with just about any law on the books now?
get pulled over, "well we suspected you were driving under the influence"...?
::)
to those opposing this bill what would you do to be able to differentiate the illegals from the legals?
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Again - if a cop in Arizona pulls someone over who speaks no english, has a North Carolina drivers license, the registration of the car does not match up, and there is no record of the driver in any systems, you guys think we should not allow the cops to ask whether the guy is an allegal or make further inquiry?
GMAFB. If a cop cant do shit in that scenario than I really dont know when you guys would allow a cop to do anything on this issue.
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I find it interesting that the percentage almost equates to the white anglo-saxon population exactly.
Race and Hispanic or Latino origin Percentage Number
White alone
(Not including the 29.2 million
White Hispanic and Latino Americans: 65.4% or 198.9 million) 75.0% 228.2 million
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race 15.4% 46.9 million
Black or African American alone 12.4% 37.6 million
Some other race alone 4.9% 15.0 million
Asian alone 4.4% 13.4 million
Two or more races 2.3% 7.0 million
American Indian or Alaska Native alone 0.8% 2.4 million
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander alone 0.14% 0.43 million
bet it does to you but the 2 dont correlate there hoss so yes its interesting but meaningless ;)
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How can you say there's no correlation?
I see that as an almost 1-1 correlation.
You are confusing the terms correlation and causation it seems. ;)
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Why blacks are not up in arms over illegal immigration is beyond me.
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APPARENTLY this bill is created with a federal statute in mind...a statute put in place by the supreme court...now I do believe from what i can figure this bill does go one step further in that the statute says that if in course of investigating a crime a officer is given reason to believe the person is illegal they can ask for proof and this bill says with "ppl the come in contact with".
I think what many of you are forgetting is that being in this country illegally is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!
there will never be a bill that can target illegals without seeming like it targets mexicans...the vast majority especially in the border states are mexican so if you have a bill that targets illegals...GUESS WHAT??????????? its going to target mexicans...thats not the bills design thats just the way reality plays out
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I repeat:
________________________ ____________
Again - if a cop in Arizona pulls someone over who speaks no english, has a North Carolina drivers license, the registration of the car does not match up, and there is no record of the driver in any systems, you guys think we should not allow the cops to ask whether the guy is an allegal or make further inquiry?
GMAFB. If a cop cant do shit in that scenario than I really dont know when you guys would allow a cop to do anything on this issue.
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How can you say there's no correlation?
I see that as an almost 1-1 correlation.
You are confusing the terms correlation and causation it seems. ;)
no you see a coincidence and imply correlation LOL ::) thats all
first off this was a poll of likely voters not the population of the US...get the demographics for likely voters in the US
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Please look up the difference between correlation and causation Tony... Did you ever take statistics?
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Please look up the difference between correlation and causation Tony... Did you ever take statistics?
LOL i know statistics very well ask the lukes dumb ass...youre saying there is a one to one correlation but youve shown nothing more than a coincidence... ::)
look up correlation and show me how this follows
again the poll is from likely voters not the populations which is what you showed...the "population" from the sample that this poll is meant to infer to isnt the population in which using for your correlation...
so get the demographics of likely voters as that is who was polled.... ;)
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APPARENTLY this bill is created with a federal statute in mind...a statute put in place by the supreme court...now I do believe from what i can figure this bill does go one step further in that the statute says that if in course of investigating a crime a officer is given reason to believe the person is illegal they can ask for proof and this bill says with "ppl the come in contact with".
I think what many of you are forgetting is that being in this country illegally is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!
there will never be a bill that can target illegals without seeming like it targets mexicans...the vast majority especially in the border states are mexican so if you have a bill that targets illegals...GUESS WHAT??????????? its going to target mexicans...thats not the bills design thats just the way reality plays out
I agree with the law completely if you can tell me that the police won't have the power to stop citizens like myself under the pretense that we might be "illegal"...
Give cops an inch and they take a mile, look what they've done with tasers...
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I really cant wait to see the paradise on earth these moron liberal idiots think the illegal aliens and invaders will create when they are the majority.
Oh that's right, we already know.
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Haha... Tony... You are ridiculous, but please do go on.
My statement is 100 percent accurate, but you just don't like it... That's fine, Let me guess, you don't believe in evolution either.
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I repeat:
________________________ ____________
Again - if a cop in Arizona pulls someone over who speaks no english, has a North Carolina drivers license, the registration of the car does not match up, and there is no record of the driver in any systems, you guys think we should not allow the cops to ask whether the guy is an allegal or make further inquiry?
Yes we should allow further inquiry.
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I agree with the law completely if you can tell me that the police won't have the power to stop citizens like myself under the pretense that we might be "illegal"...
Give cops an inch and they take a mile, look what they've done with tasers...
again, you dont think cops do this with any other law on the books right now?
the thing is that ppl want the police to have to wait for illegals to break the law before they can ascertain whether they are illegal or not...but them being in this country is BREAKING THE LAW!!!
so how do you propose they enforce that law?
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The cry baby shit over this is ridiculous.
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Haha... Tony... You are ridiculous, but please do go on.
My statement is 100 percent accurate, but you just don't like it... That's fine, Let me guess, you don't believe in evolution either.
LOL your statement is misleading and inaccurate as it tries to imply that the populations demographics are the same demographics of likely voters which is what was polled... ::)
if the demographics are they same, which i have to think they are not then your comparison is valid...which is why i asked you to get the demographics of likely voters... ;)
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My statement is very accurate Tony... Again, where is my statement false.
You are talking about misleading statements, but I've made no misleading statements at all.
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My statement is very accurate Tony... Again, where is my statement false.
You are talking about misleading statements, but I've made no misleading statements at all.
oh my goodness...you ppl...
YOU SEE the problem is that the demographics of likely voters may have a higher proportion of whites...say population of likely voters has whites at 80% that would mean that you would expect the sample given a random distribution to have around 80% of whites...so given that the outcome was 60% there would be no coincidence...
you see a correletion says that there is a relationship!!!!!!!! between the 2 all youve done is show a coincidence..to show a ONE TO ONE CORRLETIONS you have to prove that if one goes up 1% the other goes up 1%..................AGAIN BRAIN CHILD YOU HAVE SHOWN NOTHING MORE THAN A COINCIDENCE AND AN IRRELEVANT ONE AT THAT as youre trying to imply that one polulation infers qualities about the other when the demographics may be different
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oh my goodness...you ppl...
YOU SEE the problem is that the demographics of likely voters may have a higher proportion of whites...say population of likely voters has whites at 80% that would mean that you would expect the sample given a random distribution to have around 80% of whites...so given that the outcome was 60% there would be no coincidence...
you see a correletion says that there is a relationship!!!!!!!! between the 2 all youve done is show a coincidence..to show a ONE TO ONE CORRLETIONS you have to prove that if one goes up 1% the other goes up 1%..................AGAIN BRAIN CHILD YOU HAVE SHOWN NOTHING MORE THAN A COINCIDENCE AND AN IRRELEVANT ONE AT THAT as youre trying to imply that one polulation infers qualities about the other when the demographics may be different
I agree. Definitely confusing correlation with coincidence.
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Again - can someone give me a reason why a cop should not be allowed to ask the immigration status of a person in the scnario I presented above?
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again, you dont think cops do this with any other law on the books right now?
the thing is that ppl want the police to have to wait for illegals to break the law before they can ascertain whether they are illegal or not...but them being in this country is BREAKING THE LAW!!!
so how do you propose they enforce that law?
I agree that these people are criminals the second they cross our boarder, and they should be deported on the spot.
Just because police can legally harass us now (legal citizens), doesn't mean we should give them more power to...
I think we should just start enforcing the laws we have on the books now.
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I agree. Definitely confusing correlation with coincidence.
Haha... I'm not confusing anything... You guys are arm chair statisticians at their finest...
Not a clue on what the terms even mean... In statistics the term "coincidence" doesn't even exist.
Whatever guys... This is why the country is so fucked up... people who "think" they know something, don't.
Look up correlation and causation and get back to me you geniuses you.
Again - can someone give me a reason why a cop should not be allowed to ask the immigration status of a person in the scnario I presented above?
Nope... I've often wondered why they haven't done so more in the past.
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and this law just codifies an existing law att he fed level that the feds are ignoring.
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I agree that these people are criminals the second they cross our boarder, and they should be deported on the spot.
Just because police can legally harass us now (legal citizens), doesn't mean we should give them more power to...
I think we should just start enforcing the laws we have on the books now.
I agree, totally but I also think that there needs to be some procedure set in place that allows us to determine if a person is illegal before they break the law
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Haha... I'm not confusing anything... You guys are arm chair statisticians at their finest...
Not a clue on what the terms even mean... In statistics the term "coincidence" doesn't even exist.
Whatever guys... This is why the country is so fucked up... people who "think" they know something, don't.
Look up correlation and causation and get back to me you geniuses you.
LOL dispute what i posted in the last post and then show me the correlation between the two...you havent shown a relationship...all youve done go huh funny how one number matches the other duhh...you said you see a one to one correlation...prove the relationship...ill even disregard your idiocy in infering qualties of one population to another different population... ;)
ill be waiting...
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just for you holmes
from dictionary.com
Correlation Statistics. the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary together.
show me that they vary together... ;D :D ;)
how much time have you had studying stats holmes?
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just for you holmes
from dictionary.com
Correlation Statistics. the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary together.
show me that they vary together...
how much time have you had studying stats holmes?
Apparently a lot more than you... I don't have to go to dictionary.com to know what it means, and I also don't use terms that have no basis in statistics such as "coincidence".
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Haha... I'm not confusing anything... You guys are arm chair statisticians at their finest...
Not a clue on what the terms even mean... In statistics the term "coincidence" doesn't even exist.
Whatever guys... This is why the country is so fucked up... people who "think" they know something, don't.
Look up correlation and causation and get back to me you geniuses you.
Nope... I've often wondered why they haven't done so more in the past.
Oh brother. Meltdown. You're the one who made the simplistic comparison between a poll of likely voters and the racial makeup of the country. It might be "interesting," (to you) but that's about it.
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just for you holmes
from dictionary.com
Correlation Statistics. the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary together.
show me that they vary together... ;D :D ;)
how much time have you had studying stats holmes?
LOL same group holmes same group...the population of the US and the population of likely voters IS NOT THE SAME GROUP!!!!!!!!!!
hahahaha you should go talk with the luke maybe you two will agree ;)
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Apparently a lot more than you... I don't have to go to dictionary.com to know what it means, and I also don't use terms that have no basis in statistics such as "coincidence".
LOL i already know what it means you misunderstand it though so id figure youd rather take their word than mine...ive studied stats for years now bro studied in when i was getting my psych degree(wanted to go into behavioral reseach) and now that im getting a degree in finance...
how long have you studied stats bro?
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I'm glad that AZ jumped out in front of this.
Obama is going to look like a complete fool if he pushes amnesty, not like he cares of course.
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I studied a couple of semesters of stats as a few extra credits while I was getting my Comp. Sci. Degree.
I had to have something after diff. EQ.
I'm sure it's nothing compared to all of that statistical analysis you've done.
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LOL you must not have done well b/c if you did youd know that you cant infer qualities about one population to another different population...
also youd know that a correlation is a relationship...still waiting for you to prove that "1 to 1" relationship there holmes...otherwise there is no correlation which is what I said...simply a coincidental happening
Dispute my posts
STILL WAITING ;)
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While I hate to use Wiki for something like this...
Please read here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
If you still don't get it... Well, there's nothing more I can tell you about it.
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While I hate to use Wiki for something like this...
Please read here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
If you still don't get it... Well, there's nothing more I can tell you about it.
I never said correlation implies causation and yes that is probably the first thing you learn about correlations...
what you dont understand is that your 1:1 correlation isnt a correlation for starters and even if it was isnt valid as your trying to extend the properties of the population that was sampled to another seperated different population...
::)
still waiting...
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How can you say there's no correlation?
I see that as an almost 1-1 correlation.
prove the correlation...otherwise all you see is a coincidental happening of numbers... ;)
LMAO i pegged you for smarter than this holmes...
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You need to go back and read what I typed... What I typed is in fact a correlation, it is not a causation... As I stated previously.
Correlations do not require 2 sets as you claim they do... While it may be a dictionary definition, it is not an accurate definition of the use of correlation when it comes to statistics, but again, you will continue to not read what I type and only stick to your belief... Completely pointless to even respond to you in this thread.
PS. Correlations are not always proven... Causations are where the correlations cause an outcome. They are not the same.
I thought you were smarter than this too, but apparently not.
The correlation is that 60% of polled people think the law is good and 60% of the us population is cracker white.
That is in fact a correlation.
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You need to go back and read what I typed... What I typed is in fact a correlation, it is not a causation... As I stated previously.
Correlations do not require 2 sets as you claim they do... While it may be a dictionary definition, it is not an accurate definition of the use of correlation when it comes to statistics, but again, you will continue to not read what I type and only stick to your belief... Completely pointless to even respond to you in this thread.
PS. Correlations are not always proven... Causations are where the correlations cause an outcome. They are not the same.
I thought you were smarter than this too, but apparently not.
The correlation is that 60% of polled people think the law is good and 60% of the us population is cracker white.
That is in fact a correlation.
a correlation means that there is a relationship all youve shown is a 2 numbers that are around the same...no relationship no nothing...
no dip shit its not a correlation I could say the same thing 40% arent white and 20% of the whites make up the 60% its a correlation...BUT ITS NOT B/C I HAVENT PROVEN A RELATIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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No Tony... That would be proving the CAUSATION.
If the percentage of people supporting and the percentage of people who are white change, then it's a causation.
What I stated is in fact a correlation.
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No Tony... That would be proving the CAUSATION.
If the percentage of people supporting and the percentage of people who are white change, then it's a causation.
What I stated is in fact a correlation.
HHAHHAHSGLK:JHAS:JKLGH:FLKJALHBL:KSDFGH"J OMGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HUGGY STICKY THIS THREAD FOR ME BRO!!!!!!
LOL no no no...what it means when it says you cant get causation from correlation is that you cant determine which factor is making the move occur when 2 things have a correlation...
I.E. if you have X and Y and X goes up one degree if there is a 1:1 correlation then Y goes up one degree this is what establishes the 1:1 correlation, but you cannot determine if X made Y move or Y made X move or if some other factor played a part in it...
"If the percentage of people supporting and the percentage of people who are white change"
that is what a correlation is brain child!!!!!!!!!! what its saying is simply b/c one changes and so does the other doesnt mean it necissarily caused by the first factor changing
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Ok Tony... You are a statistical genius and know more than myself and all of the other engineers I deal with.
You must be a getbig super genius and multi-millionair.
PS... If you're agreeing that if both percentages go up then my initial correlation does still hold merit.
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Ok Tony... You are a statistical genius and know more than myself and all of the other engineers I deal with.
You must be a getbig super genius and multi-millionair.
PS... If you're agreeing that if both percentages go up then my initial correlation does still hold merit.
well I hope the engineers you work with know alot more about stats than your ass...
IM NOT AGREEING, Im telling you to prove it b/c if you cant prove it there is no correlation simply a coincidental happening of numbers...
go ahead and prove it, IM WAITING....
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Give me 5 years for the percentage of white people in the country to go down and I will.
;)
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Give me 5 years for the percentage of white people in the country to go down and I will.
;)
LOL what I thought childish 5 yr old response when shown the errors of you ways ::)
let the others handle the stats at work from now on holmes ;)
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According to your definition, that's what's required.
I see nothing childish about it, but hey... You go ahead and continue to think so.
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According to your definition, that's what's required.
I see nothing childish about it, but hey... You go ahead and continue to think so.
LOL its not my definition its THE DEFINITION... ::)
you could have just said ok youre right there isnt a provable correlation with it
this also doesnt address your using the population of the US to draw conclusions about the population of likely voters...which is who the poll used!!!!!!!!!!! are you saying that you think the population of likely voters is just like the population of the US?
again leave stats to the others at your work bro
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Can we get to talking about illaygals again? ;D ;D ;D
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lets go with these numbers from the pew organization...the numbers maybe different but im simply showing the concept not proving my point...
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1209/racial-ethnic-voters-presidential-election#end3
they have the number of whites that voted in the previous election(which in this case will be the likely voters) at 73.4% and thats non hispanic whites.
this number doesnt coincide with your coincidental happening of numbers...now these may not be the numbers just like yours may not be the numbers but one thing is for sure you cannot draw conclusions about the details of one population using the details of another population like youre doing b/c as Ive shown the properties maybe different...basically the % of likely voters(which is again what the polls population was) may not have the same racial make up of the population of the US
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Can we get to talking about illaygals again? ;D ;D ;D
yesh yesh im sorry im done...
again anybody who is opposing this bill, how are we supposed to know who is illegal and who is not?
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240 just wants to shoot, break knee caps, and guillotine, ans ask questions later.
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'240 just wants to shoot, break knee caps, and guillotine, ans ask questions later. '
Only for those who disrespect our country enough to piss on our laws and enter illegally.
For those who are here legally, being cuffed, questioned, ID'd without breaking the law is some bullshit.
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'240 just wants to shoot, break knee caps, and guillotine, ans ask questions later. '
Only for those who disrespect our country enough to piss on our laws and enter illegally.
For those who are here legally, being cuffed, questioned, ID'd without breaking the law is some bullshit.
how would you propose we find the illegals then?
should we wait for ppl commiting a crime to commit another one so that we cant kick them out for commiting the first one?
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again... this is how:
Pay $100 per illegal worker reported, with INS doing the legwork.
Fine employers 10,000 per employee for violation.
Work dries up in weeks. They go home!
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again... this is how:
Pay $100 per illegal worker reported, with INS doing the legwork.
Fine employers 10,000 per employee for violation.
Work dries up in weeks. They go home!
So prefer private snitches as opposed to letting cops do their jobs?
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again... this is how:
Pay $100 per illegal worker reported, with INS doing the legwork.
Fine employers 10,000 per employee for violation.
Work dries up in weeks. They go home!
LOL again a misconception...even if we could eliminate all employers they wouldnt all leave... ::)
so youre going to have ppl saying others are illegal even if they may not be just incase to get 100 bucks?
again there are self sustaining communities of illegals in this country who is going to rat on them? another illegal?
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oh i see... have the cops had all that much luck 'doing their job' thus far?
No. And isn't part of INS' job is to crack down on employers who hire illegals?
yes, I prefer simple paperwork checks by INS agents, heavy fines - as opposed to thousands of legal americans per month having their rights violated.
Or, just wait til your ass is on the curb handcuffed. You can act like a sheep and say "hey, I'm just doing my patriotic duty!" like a good boy. Or you can say "I'm an American, I didn't do shit wrong, and if I didn't do anything wrong, this police officer will not waste my time nor limit my freedom in any way."
Dry up the $ and the pricks leave. Period. They won't bust employers and they won't punish the drug users - these 2 actions would dry up the white and black market for illegal labor in the USA.
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Sounds like your little plunger incident had a huge effect on you. ;D ;D ;D
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LMAO again anybody who thinks that simply stopping employers from hiring them will stop illegals from coming is not informed.
what about those who dont work? what if you dont know where they work?
so youre ok with someone who has no guidelines reporting illegals as opposed to those who have guidelines?
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have a seat on the curb, sheep :)
We'll be around to shear you in a few hours. Do your patriotic duty and STFU while Team Obama rapes you.
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333386, it's because I'm an American who loves and respects his freedoms.
Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither
Maybe you're okay with being seated, cuffed, and ID'd when you did nothing wrong. Maybe it'll happen once a year, maybe ten times a day. Doesn't matter. You're right and Ben Franklin is wrong, I guess.
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We need to end the anchor bomb situation to where these people can pop out kids that entitle these people to taxpayer funded benes.
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of course we do - but we need to do it without wasting time and destroying liberties of legal americans. There are a lot of things we can do before resorting to this.
What do repubs think of this bill?
Mccain likes the bill but he's not sure if all of is is legal.
Tancredo: "Ppl will be pulled over because they look like they should be pulled over"
The 'show me your papers law'.
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have a seat on the curb, sheep :)
We'll be around to shear you in a few hours. Do your patriotic duty and STFU while Team Obama rapes you.
LOL way to address they issues I put forth ;)
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tony - nobody's rights get violated if INS questions an employer, asks to see their paperwork on file, etc.
if the tips are found without ground, that 'source' will be discounted as ineffective. But you show a few dozen in each city getting kicked out on CNN, and the massive fines - and MANY employers will drop their illegals.
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of course we do - but we need to do it without wasting time and destroying liberties of legal americans. There are a lot of things we can do before resorting to this.
What do repubs think of this bill?
Mccain likes the bill but he's not sure if all of is is legal.
Tancredo: "Ppl will be pulled over because they look like they should be pulled over"
The 'show me your papers law'.
Would you be ok with them checking if they were investigating another crime?
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tony - nobody's rights get violated if INS questions an employer, asks to see their paperwork on file, etc.
if the tips are found without ground, that 'source' will be discounted as ineffective. But you show a few dozen in each city getting kicked out on CNN, and the massive fines - and MANY employers will drop their illegals.
what if you dont know where they work? what if they dont work?
youd still have your civil liberties violated by your standards but with your plan it would be at the whim of a private citizen instead of a public citizen who could be held accountable...
simply stopping work WILL NOT ELIMINATE ILLEGALS!!!!!!!!!! get that through your head............
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Yes - if you honestly break the law - run their damn papers.
HOWEVER - if you have been listening to the REPUBS coming fwd with questions about the legality of this... well...
My whole point is that any cop can stop any citizen and demand papers if he "feels" the person needs checked. That is some bullshit. if one minute of any american's life is wasted in cuffs because some jackass cop decides to fvck with them - that is unacceptable in America.
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we disagree Tony -
I believe if you dry up the work, a decent % of them will LEAVE!
Then the rest will be less of a strain on the system, will stand out like a sore thumb, and then we can address the non-working illegals. At the very least, there will be a lot of jobs suddenly avaiable for LEGAL AMERICANS.
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we disagree Tony -
I believe if you dry up the work, a decent % of them will LEAVE!
Then the rest will be less of a strain on the system, will stand out like a sore thumb, and then we can address the non-working illegals. At the very least, there will be a lot of jobs suddenly avaiable for LEGAL AMERICANS.
ok well first off you have to understand that we will NEVER, NEVER be able to stop everyone from hiring illegals so there will ALWAYS be work for them how much is the question...
second they will still come over again better to be homeless in the US than homeless in mexico...
how will the others stand out like sore thumbs?
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if you completely destroy 1 business per day - decimate them with $10k fines for every single illegal they knowingly hired...
and you plaster it all over the news...
You'll have enough housewives telling their man "we're going to lose our business... just hire some legal guys".
I mean, "To catch a predator" only busted probably 70 or 80 pedophiles total - but they scared a million into leaving kids alone.
Second - they may find some work in Mex - many will leave. Not all. But many will. You drop the 15 mil current number to 10 mil and you've accomplished more than any president in history!
Then, you look at the remaining 10 mil and you think about what to try next. Prosecute some drug users harder, and the drug trade shrinks - this sends another million home.
letting police 'gaffle' any mofo they please is going to lead to a shitload of lawsuits, and the results could be... drum roll... illegals MUCH MORE ready to pull a gun on a cop.
I'd rather do it peacefully - dry up the $ and a lot of them leave :)
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if you completely destroy 1 business per day - decimate them with $10k fines for every single illegal they knowingly hired...
and you plaster it all over the news...
You'll have enough housewives telling their man "we're going to lose our business... just hire some legal guys".
I mean, "To catch a predator" only busted probably 70 or 80 pedophiles total - but they scared a million into leaving kids alone.
Second - they may find some work in Mex - many will leave. Not all. But many will. You drop the 15 mil current number to 10 mil and you've accomplished more than any president in history!
Then, you look at the remaining 10 mil and you think about what to try next. Prosecute some drug users harder, and the drug trade shrinks - this sends another million home.
letting police 'gaffle' any mofo they please is going to lead to a shitload of lawsuits, and the results could be... drum roll... illegals MUCH MORE ready to pull a gun on a cop.
I'd rather do it peacefully - dry up the $ and a lot of them leave :)
LOL and by the tim eyou get that step by step system to eliminate half the illegal population it will be 2050 and there will be enough descendants of illegals born in this country to change the law...
your being niave 240, police gaffle any mofo they choose to now, we dont even know the standards by which this law is to be enforced so why not wait to see that before condeming it?
you think your way will not result in illegals more willing to pull guns? again niave
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hey, maybe your way of gaffling illegals on the streets of phoenix at 1 AM won't result in them pulling guns.
It'll be all the landscapers and dishwashers pulling out glocks. Gotcha!
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hey, maybe your way of gaffling illegals on the streets of phoenix at 1 AM won't result in them pulling guns.
It'll be all the landscapers and dishwashers pulling out glocks. Gotcha!
LOL face it brain child when you start trying to deport them some will fight back doesnt matter if its done your way or mine ::)
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No, but you and I shouldn't have to keep our immigration status on us and neither should anybody else. This law potentially opens a box that will never be closed. In New York are you supposed to have your ID on you at all times? Some states you are already required to do so in case you are stopped by police for whatever reason...I have issues with that myself.
In total agreement with you here. The truly disgusting part is many people are so blind to the abuse of others.
The hypocrisy & myopia are rampant. Some people have no problems with the rights of "others" being violated, and can't figure out that it's only a matter of time til these abuses & violations are directed towards them. By then, it's too late. People like 333 have a nerve complaining about Obama or the government in any way when he himself supports routine violations of 4th amendment rights. Anyone who can't or won't stand up for your constitution, doesn't deserve the protections it provides. Find another way to tackle illegal immigration other then widescale violations of the 4th amendment.
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GMAFB Jag. They simply codified an existing Federal Law.
These bums have lost their rights to anonimity in the USA when they ILLEGALLY ENTERED the country.
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GMAFB Jag. They simply codified an existing Federal Law.
These bums have lost their rights to anonimity in the USA when they ILLEGALLY ENTERED the country.
What did American citizens and legal residents do to lose their rights?
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Stop making shit up. You dont live in one of these areas these invaders have plundered and destroyed.
You and your ilk are utterly clueless as to the countless scams, schemes, id offences, drug dealing, people dealing, and ridiculous amount of crimes these people commit.
If a cop stops one of these invaders in the course of a routine traffic stop, drug arrest, or otherwise, why shouldnt he be allowed to ascertain the immigration status?
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There are plenty of illegal immigrants who are white and speak English. How many here really believe that cops will be asking these people for proof of legal US residency? ::)
On the other hand, there are plenty of non-white, native born American citizens and Naturalized American citizens who speak English with a foreign accent. What happens when cops ask these people, and they will ask, for proof of legal US residency? What are these American citizens going to do?
Then again, this new law is music to an attorney's ears and good news to brown American citizens. Just wait and see all the lawsuits and settlements that will come out of enforcing this new law. :)
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Bill Kristol said on FOX sunday that there will be some legal americans who will be forced to ID themselves against their will.
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And guess what happens when you get busted for a dwi w no I'd on you.
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And guess what happens when you get busted for a dwi w no I'd on you.
And what happens when an American citizen in Arizona who happens to look Mexican gets pulled over for speeding, has his driver's license, but no proof of legal US residency? What does he do when the cop demands proof?
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Read the damn law. A valid is presumptive proof.
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So does everyone need to carry their birth certificate in Arizona? Drivers license isn't really proof of citizenship...
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Read the damn law. A valid is presumptive proof.
What? A valid what is presumptive proof?
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So does everyone need to carry their birth certificate in Arizona? Drivers license isn't really proof of citizenship...
Exactly. A drivers license is neither proof of citizenship nor is it proof of legal permanent residence.
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Read the law. Yes it is.
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Obama has a drivers licence. Doesn't seem like that's enough proof of citizenship...
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Read the damn law. A valid is presumptive proof.
(http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/265px-heroes-acc1.jpg?w=300&h=677)
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Read the law. Yes it is.
You have any idea how many illegal immigrants in the US have a valid drivers license?
Until just recently, many states provided drivers license study guides in Spanish. The written test itself was offered in Spanish. I'm sure there are states that still do this.
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if you completely destroy 1 business per day - decimate them with $10k fines for every single illegal they knowingly hired...
and you plaster it all over the news...
You'll have enough housewives telling their man "we're going to lose our business... just hire some legal guys".
I mean, "To catch a predator" only busted probably 70 or 80 pedophiles total - but they scared a million into leaving kids alone.
Second - they may find some work in Mex - many will leave. Not all. But many will. You drop the 15 mil current number to 10 mil and you've accomplished more than any president in history!
The question is an economic one: how flexible is the demand for cheap labor? How many businesses would go under if they were forced to replace all their illegals with legal residents? How many businesses would simply choose to risk it, because hiring expensive (and unmotivated) americans would put them out of business instantly?
Prosecute some drug users harder, and the drug trade shrinks
How's this been working out in the last few decades? ::)
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The question is an economic one: how flexible is the demand for cheap labor? How many businesses would go under if they were forced to replace all their illegals with legal residents? How many businesses would simply choose to risk it, because hiring expensive (and unmotivated) americans would put them out of business instantly?
How's this been working out in the last few decades? ::)
you haent been here long so Ill help you out a tad, you cant rationalize with 240 he will squirm and silverline enough so that he his views are in the grey area...either that or he will just ignore your post ;)
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Actually, a drivers license in some states is proof of residency and citizenship.
In the Commonwealth of Virginia, you can not get a drivers license without showing a social security card and birth certificate.
It wasn't always that way, but it is now.
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Actually, a drivers license in some states is proof of residency and citizenship.
In the Commonwealth of Virginia, you can not get a drivers license without showing a social security card and birth certificate.
It wasn't always that way, but it is now.
Looks like any illegal can obtain an Ohio drivers license, I bet it's the same in most other states.
Driver License Rules & Regulations
Ohio Administrative Code Section 4501:1-1-19, 21, 22
In order to obtain any Ohio Temporary Instruction Permit Card (TIPIC), Driver License, Commercial Driver License, State of Ohio Identification (ID) card, Motorcycle, Moped license, the customer must present documents to prove all of the following five elements: (1) legal first name, middle name, OR middle initial, and current last name; (2) date of birth; (3) Social Security Number (SSN), if ever assigned; (4) U.S. citizenship OR U.S. legal presence; and (5) resident street address in Ohio.
To obtain a duplicate of any of the above, the applicant must sign a statement that the original was lost or stolen, present one primary OR one secondary document, match the photograph on file and all five elements in the BMV system. If any of the five elements do not match the BMV system, the applicant must present an acceptable document to prove the mismatched element.
An Ohio TIPIC, driver license, CDL, ID card, motorcycle or moped license either current or expired for less than six months is sufficient proof of all elements for any BMV transaction (including co-signers) and no further proof is necessary.
Only original documents or a copy bearing an original certification by the issuing authority are acceptable. Uncertified copies or copies of certified documents are not acceptable. Failure to provide two acceptable identification documents and proof of residency in Ohio shall result in the denial of the application.
Residency Documents:
(Must Include Ohio Residency Street Address)
If the primary and secondary documents presented do not establish the applicant's current Ohio residence street address, the applicant shall present additional documents containing the applicant's name and current address within Ohio to establish that address to the satisfaction of the registrar or deputy registrar. A post office box or other mail box address is not acceptable.
The following documents shall be acceptable if the applicant's current Ohio residence street address is included in the document. Only original documents or a copy bearing an original certification by the issuing authority are acceptable. Uncertified copies or copies of certified documents are not acceptable. Failure to provide two acceptable identification documents and proof of residency in Ohio shall result in the denial of the application.
* Insurance Policy - Any current and valid automobile liability, premises liability, or life insurance policy.
* Bank Statement - Any checking or savings account statement, including on-line statements, dated within the last sixty days.
* Child Support Check Stub - From the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services with the name and address of the applicant.
* Income Tax Return Filing - Copy of federal or Ohio income tax return filing not more than eighteen months old, with proof of filing.
* Certified Copy of Court Order - Must be court order of probation, order of parole, or order of mandatory release.
* School Records - Must contain satisfactory proof of identity, Ohio residency, and relationship of the parent or guardian to the child applicant.
* Certified Statement of Residency - In the case of a dependent child, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles (BMV) may accept a certified statement of residency from a child's parent or guardian, signed in the presence of a BMV official. Satisfactory proof of identity, Ohio residency, and relationship of the the parent or guardian to the child applicant is also required.
* Certified Statement of Residency - In the case of a married person, the BMV may accept a certified statement of residency from the applicant's spouse, signed in the presence of a BMV official. Satisfactory proof of identity, Ohio residency, and marital relationship is also required.
* Installment Loan Contract - From a bank or other financial institution.
* Major Credit Card Bill - Statement – or major retail store credit card statement with Ohio street address.
* Mortgage Account - Or proof of home ownership.
* Ohio Certificate Of Title
* Ohio Mail-in Renewal Notice
* Valid Ohio Voter Registration Card
* Paycheck Stub - Issued within the last six (6) months.
* Professional License - Issued by an Ohio government agency.
* Property Tax Bill - Or receipt of payment.
* Hunting/Fishing License - Ohio resident hunting or fishing license valid during the current or previous year.
* Sales Tax or Business License - Must show Ohio residence address.
* Selective Service Registration Acknowledgement Card
* Certification of Residency - From a nursing home or homeless shelter on a form prescribed by the registrar for that purpose.
* Utility Bill - From an electric, telephone, water, sewer, cable, satellite, heating oil, or propane provider issued within the last sixty days.
* Concealed Carry Permit - Valid concealed carry weapons permit.
* Public Assistance Check Stub - Check Stub, food stamp card, or letter on government letterhead (issued within the last 12 months), issued by a government public assistance agency.
* Social Security Administration Document – With Ohio street address
* TSA letter
* Other - Any other genuine and reliable document approved BMV Registrar (not deputy registrar).
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remember during the fal 07 dem debates - hilary took heat when Gov Spitzer of NY was gonna give out licenses to illegals.... "What else can he do" was her response.
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Maybe I'm reading it differently... If you have to have a SSN and U.S. Citizenship or legal presence how can an illegal get one?
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Maybe I'm reading it differently... If you have to have a SSN and U.S. Citizenship or legal presence how can an illegal get one?
If an immigrant has a green card, he can get both a SSN and a drivers license, without US citizenship.
Not long ago, a foreign student could get a SSN. The SS card just says "Not valid for work.". That means he could get a drivers license in Virginia. And if his student visa expires and he decides to stay in the US illegally, now he's an illegal immigrant with a Virginia drivers license.
No, a drivers license is no proof of US citizenship or legal US residence.
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You make a valid point I suppose... Is there any way to avoid that though?
I mean... when someone comes into the country legally, you have to expect they will try to stay legal.
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You make a valid point I suppose... Is there any way to avoid that though?
I mean... when someone comes into the country legally, you have to expect they will try to stay legal.
No, many people enter the US legally, then stay illegally. It happens all the time.
If you pass laws to require proof of legal US residence, you are going to have to require all American citizens to carry proof as well. The drivers license won't work.
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So then we need national ID card and that seems very fascist.
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There is not one silver bullet to this problem.
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You make a valid point I suppose... Is there any way to avoid that though?
I mean... when someone comes into the country legally, you have to expect they will try to stay legal.
this bill is meant to target those who enter the country illegally...yes there are ppl who enter this country legally than stay passed their visa but there are FAR MORE that enter this country illegally
it can work you simply pass a law that says only legal residents can obtain a drivers license otherwise you get a temporary one...
not rocket science...
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There is not one silver bullet to this problem.
exactly and as we sit and debate this bull shit they are having anchor babies out the ass sooner or later they will have enough legals raised by illegals to get their politicians to pass amnesty or worse open border...........
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this bill is meant to target those who enter the country illegally...yes there are ppl who enter this country legally than stay passed their visa but there are FAR MORE that enter this country illegally
it can work you simply pass a law that says only legal residents can obtain a drivers license otherwise you get a temporary one...
not rocket science...
That's what I said earlier though... I thought you already had to be legal to get the drivers license in the first place.
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this bill is meant to target those who enter the country illegally...yes there are ppl who enter this country legally than stay passed their visa but there are FAR MORE that enter this country illegally
it can work you simply pass a law that says only legal residents can obtain a drivers license otherwise you get a temporary one...
not rocket science...
Is that happening in Arizona now? How long before it happens in Arizona? How long before it happens in all 50 states? It won't work unless all states pass such law for obtaining a drivers license.
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That's what I said earlier though... I thought you already had to be legal to get the drivers license in the first place.
You don't have to. Not in all states anyway.
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How many states do not require that?
Most states have done so since 9-11 to be honest.
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So then we need national ID card and that seems very fascist.
Exactly one reason why many oppose this new law. It opens the door for future fascist laws.
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Is that happening in Arizona now? How long before it happens in Arizona? How long before it happens in all 50 states? It won't work unless all states pass such law for obtaining a drivers license.
not true...when you move to a state you have to get that states drivers license sooner or later...I dont think Arizona cares much if their illegals go to new mexico or california as long as they arent in arizona...
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not true...when you move to a state you have to get that states drivers license sooner or later...I dont think Arizona cares much if their illegals go to new mexico or california as long as they arent in arizona...
No you don`t.
You don`t HAVE to do anything. I never have. ;)
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Drivers Licenses are NOT required in any state.
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No you don`t.
You don`t HAVE to do anything. I never have. ;)
doesnt mean you dont have to, if you dont you will face fines...
drivers licenses are not required unless you drive...
arent you the idiot that was on here yelling about how car insurance is just like the health care bill mandate? ::)
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doesnt mean you dont have to, if you dont you will face fines...
drivers licenses are not required unless you drive...
arent you the idiot that was on here yelling about how car insurance is just like the health care bill mandate? ::)
I drive and I have never renewed my Drivers Licence nor do I have any card for over a decade. I don`t pay any fines and I won`t.
I don`t believe the government should require a Drivers Licence as there is no evidence that it is effective in producing capable drivers (drivers test show no indication of preventing accidents or keeping non-capable drivers off the road)
So what is the point of a Drivers License other than the Government to keep an updated record of where you live, your height, weight and identity?
What good is it I ask you?
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Also, all states allow certain vehicles that do not require a Drivers License to operate so NO, I find it very hard to swallow that it should be a necessary requirement for only a certain type of vehicle and not others.
This also demonstrates that a Drivers Licence is not necessary to operate a vehicle on a road.
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I drive and I have never renewed my Drivers Licence nor do I have any card for over a decade. I don`t pay any fines and I won`t.
I don`t believe the government should require a Drivers Licence as there is no evidence that it is effective in producing capable drivers (drivers test show no indication of preventing accidents or keeping non-capable drivers off the road)
So what is the point of a Drivers License other than the Government to keep an updated record of where you live, your height, weight and identity?
What good is it I ask you?
LOL well sooner or later hoss you will be arrested given enough violations and not renewing your license ::)
what proof do you have that drivers test dont produce more capable drivers> ::)
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Also, all states allow certain vehicles that do not require a Drivers License to operate so NO, I find it very hard to swallow that it should be a necessary requirement for only a certain type of vehicle and not others.
This also demonstrates that a Drivers Licence is not necessary to operate a vehicle on a road.
what other vehicles are allowed on the road without a drivers license?
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LOL well sooner or later hoss you will be arrested given enough violations and not renewing your license ::)
what proof do you have that drivers test dont produce more capable drivers> ::)
You do realize there are vehicles that can be on the road with No Licence necessary?
Look at the historical accident rates, despite ever changing criteria and new laws regarding drivers tests, there is no break in the accident rate and fluctuation of a trend.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Where is your evidence supporting your claim that a Drivers License ensures capable drivers are on the road?
Can you please show some evidence?
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what other vehicles are allowed on the road without a drivers license?
Mo-Peds, Scooters for one. Some of these even go up 90 mph easily.
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There are also Replica and Kit Cars that do not require Licenses to operate on the road.
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You do realize there are vehicles that can be on the road with No Licence necessary?
Look at the historical accident rates, despite ever changing criteria and new laws regarding drivers tests, there is no break in the accident rate and fluctuation of a trend.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Where is your evidence supporting your claim that a Drivers License ensures capable drivers are on the road?
Can you please show some evidence?
what does your link have to do with vehicles allowed on the streets without a license?
the very fact that a drivers test requires an EYE TEST means that the ppl with a license meet some standard in vision...you think vision isnt important in driving?
where are your facts TA youre the one that brought this up brosky... ::)
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Mo-Peds, Scooters for one. Some of these even go up 90 mph easily.
most mo peds and scooters do require a license... ;)
most over 50cc's require a license...youre probably not riding on the street with a scooter under 50cc's
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This Scooter goes well over 120 MPH and DOES NOT require a License to drive.
Piaggio Gilera GP 800
(http://www.motosyco.com/catalog/images/Gilera_GP_800_01.jpg)
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This Scooter goes well over 120 MPH and DOES NOT require a License to drive.
Piaggio Gilera GP 800
(http://www.motosyco.com/catalog/images/Gilera_GP_800_01.jpg)
wrong...it does!!!
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wrong...it does!!!
Not in all states.
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what does your link have to do with vehicles allowed on the streets without a license?
the very fact that a drivers test requires an EYE TEST means that the ppl with a license meet some standard in vision...you think vision isnt important in driving?
where are your facts TA youre the one that brought this up brosky... ::)
What stops me from taking out my contacts (which makes me legally blind) and driving?
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Not in all states.
LOL ok TA which states dont and please post links as to why... ;)
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What stops me from taking out my contacts (which makes me legally blind) and driving?
what if you dont have contacts or glasses and drive you numb nut fuck? ::)
an eye test at the very least assures that a person is capable of achieving a certain level of vision in order to drive...that is unless you think that vision isnt important to driving?
most ppl arent going to take their contacts out to drive...but there are ppl who dont have contacts that may drive if they arent forced to take an eye test telling them they need contacts... ::) IDIOT!!!
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what if you dont have contacts or glasses and drive you numb nut fuck? ::)
an eye test at the very least assures that a person is capable of achieving a certain level of vision in order to drive...that is unless you think that vision isnt important to driving?
most ppl arent going to take their contacts out to drive...but there are ppl who dont have contacts that may drive if they arent forced to take an eye test telling them they need contacts... ::) IDIOT!!!
Can you please post the statistics of people driving without a Licence and without Eye glasses or contacts? Thanks.
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The DMV should be completely scrapped and dismantled.
TonyMctones and his Government loving buddies want more control and regulation over their lives and I find it highly amusing.
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The DMV should be completely scrapped and dismantled.
Well, if we do that, in 5 years, where the hell will I go for my healthcare? :D
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Post of the day.
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Can you please post the statistics of people driving without a Licence and without Eye glasses or contacts? Thanks.
lol these are your asertions you fuk nut...lmao
you also feel that a person vision isnt important for driving and that knowing the basic traffic laws arent important for driving either...nice
you know i do think that jezz was posting and it wasnt TA b/c this shit is just a whole different level of retard...
still waiting for states that dont require scooter licenses for scooters over 50cc's like that 800+cc scooter you showed that isnt even available in the US... ::) ;)
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bump for TA