Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on April 26, 2010, 10:14:08 PM
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Why is this class based on weight vs. height? Because they are based on weight, how many different physiques are you going to get in terms of looks. In addition, you have guys like Kevin English that suck themselves down make weight but we know he is no where near 202 onstage and closer to 215.
If you have it based on height say 5'5 and under it gives guys room to grow and not be penalized for putting on more muscle. and have to lose the hard earned muscle.
The reason I say 5'5 is because Dex is 5'6 Ronnie Rockel is 5'6 and they are competitive in the open shows. The only other people under 5'6 that have been competitive under 5'6 recently are Dave Henry and Lee Priest.
These guys reach a point to where they will be penalized for putting on muscle and the natural progression would be to move to the open but would they really be competitive at being 10lbs over 202? Probably not. Height is a better basis. You will see a lot of different kind of bodies to look at.
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Why is this class based on weight vs. height? Because they are based on weight, how many different physiques are you going to get in terms of looks. In addition, you have guys like Kevin English that suck themselves down make weight but we know he is no where near 202 onstage and closer to 215.
If you have it based on height say 5'5 and under it gives guys room to grow and not be penalized for putting on more muscle. and have to lose the hard earned muscle.
The reason I say 5'5 is because Dex is 5'6 Ronnie Rockel is 5'6 and they are competitive in the open shows. The only other people under 5'6 that have been competitive under 5'6 recently are Dave Henry and Lee Priest.
These guys reach a point to where they will be penalized for putting on muscle and the natural progression would be to move to the open but would they really be competitive at being 10lbs over 202? Probably not. Height is a better basis. You will see a lot of different kind of bodies to look at.
i agree in principle.......the idea of having another class is intrinsically good, but 202 is the wrong cutoff.......perhaps it should be more like 215, or maybe it shoud be based on height
but 202 guarentees all people in that class to be very homogenous..........they are all going to be ultra short guys
lightweight, middleweight, adn heavyweight may be better
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i agree in principle.......the idea of having another class is intrinsically good, but 202 is the wrong cutoff.......perhaps it should be more like 215, or maybe it shoud be based on height
but 202 guarentees all people in that class to be very homogenous..........they are all going to be ultra short guys
lightweight, middleweight, adn heavyweight may be better
This would be nice. That way many of us who are sick of seeing the chemical experiments and grotesque guts on stage could not be so ashamed to call themselves "fans" of BBing. Also, it would allow many BBers who want to compete at the highest levels not to have to jeopardize their health with massive amounts of GH and insulin to stay competitive.
However, I'm sure there just isn't the money for this type of show. Also, today's BBing fan seems to like to circus freaks.
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the 202 is the silliest class i have seen.. why 202? why not 208? where did this arbitrary number come from..? these are pros.. they should be allowed to bring their best package to the show.. right now we have henry, eduardo, jose ect all weighing in at 202.. they can afford to gain no further muscle for fear of going over the silly limit.. what if 202 does not allow them to bring their best look? we , the fans, will be stuck looking at the same physiques show after show.. the mentioned above competitors will look the same show after show.. 202.. how fair is it for henry and english to be stuck at a weight and have to stay there while guys like flex can still grow into the weight class.. so essentially these guys have to wait for the others to play catch up and then all be judged at the same weight..
i have said this for years now on many boards.. why not a short class? all these guys are 5'6 and under for the most part.. but to limit them with a silly number is not what the pro ranks is supposed to be about.. and please dont say they can work on "refinement".. these guys already have the refinement.. so they essentially have to "train to maintain" for the rest of their career? how silly..
the great thing about the open class is you did not know what package the competitors would bring.. would ronnie be 275 and freaky or would he streamline? would dexter go for the size and freaky conditioning? but we know what we will get every time with the 202..boring.. but if it were a short class these guys could bring their best package no matter what the weight.. imagine english being allowed to bring 220 to the stage.. he says that is his best look anyway.. imagine henry ect all bringing their best..
so how fair is it? lets say that eduardo looks his best at the 202 limit.. fine.. all for it.. but what if henry looks his best at 210.. so he cant bring his best package because some guy thought of a silly number to limit them to? we have those that said at the recent europa that eduardo looked great but his legs needed to be much bigger.. well how is he going to do that? he is at the limit now.. it will be hard for him to make improvements when he is bumping into the ceiling of the weight class..
the nabba has had height classes for years and it works great.. but to limit a pro is silly.. they are stuck.. they cant go to the open so they are stuck in a class that limits their potential.. what if a guy wins the light heavies at the nationals at 198.. he is 5'6.. he can only afford to gain another 4 pounds until he tops the 202 class? so we will see basically the same physique that won the nationals at the pro level? again.. silly.. get rid of the silly 202 and make it what it really is.. a short class.. and let them bring the best package they have to offer.. not limit them to a silly arbitrary number..
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Why is this class based on weight vs. height? Because they are based on weight, how many different physiques are you going to get in terms of looks. In addition, you have guys like Kevin English that suck themselves down make weight but we know he is no where near 202 onstage and closer to 215.
If you have it based on height say 5'5 and under it gives guys room to grow and not be penalized for putting on more muscle. and have to lose the hard earned muscle.
The reason I say 5'5 is because Dex is 5'6 Ronnie Rockel is 5'6 and they are competitive in the open shows. The only other people under 5'6 that have been competitive under 5'6 recently are Dave Henry and Lee Priest.
These guys reach a point to where they will be penalized for putting on muscle and the natural progression would be to move to the open but would they really be competitive at being 10lbs over 202? Probably not. Height is a better basis. You will see a lot of different kind of bodies to look at.
I agree, I think 5'5 is a much better classification than 202. Most of the European federations run height classes.
I can only imagine how the new class will be welcomed on Getbig "the midget class"
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All classification systems are arbitrary. Why not 5'5 and 1/4? It's hard to pick a specific cutoff and I think there will always be some people who are not pleased with it. Maybe a height class or another weight class would be a good idea but I'm not sure. I don't see there being enough time to judge three classes to be honest.
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All classification systems are arbitrary. Why not 5'5 and 1/4? It's hard to pick a specific cutoff and I think there will always be some people who are not pleased with it. Maybe a height class or another weight class would be a good idea but I'm not sure. I don't see there being enough time to judge three classes to be honest.
The under 5'6 class...not enough money for 3 classes. The 202 is good but can be better. It needs to change to under 5'6.
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Some good questions here - I've always wondered why it's 202 - where has that number been plucked from?
Also, do they weight the guys before the prejudging to check that they are within weight limit?
I'm not critiscizing the whole thing because the 202 classes have given us some great physiques and good competition, but there is just some clarification required.
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Some good questions here - I've always wondered why it's 202 - where has that number been plucked from?
Also, do they weight the guys before the prejudging to check that they are within eight limit?
I'm not critiscizing the whole thing because the 202 classes have given us some great physiques and good competition, but there is just some clarification required.
Bob gave the reason it was 202 a while back but i think the class is being held back because of the weight limit. Height you'd have more variety in physiques. Hell is there even anyone 5'6 and over in 202?
I don't know when they weigh in good question.
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Why is this class based on weight vs. height? Because they are based on weight, how many different physiques are you going to get in terms of looks. In addition, you have guys like Kevin English that suck themselves down make weight but we know he is no where near 202 onstage and closer to 215.
If you have it based on height say 5'5 and under it gives guys room to grow and not be penalized for putting on more muscle. and have to lose the hard earned muscle.
The reason I say 5'5 is because Dex is 5'6 Ronnie Rockel is 5'6 and they are competitive in the open shows. The only other people under 5'6 that have been competitive under 5'6 recently are Dave Henry and Lee Priest.
These guys reach a point to where they will be penalized for putting on muscle and the natural progression would be to move to the open but would they really be competitive at being 10lbs over 202? Probably not. Height is a better basis. You will see a lot of different kind of bodies to look at.
1. Weight classes are used in the NPC, the pro's should mirror the amateurs in terms of classes, etc.
2. Height classes would still give the taller guy the advantage, and thus, not really accomplish what we set out to do.
3. most guys arent at the top of the 202 limit, they're anywhere from the 70's on up from what I've seen...
4. It's 202 because that was the number suggested most at the meeting, I personally think it should be 205 (to allow for a 7 lb. gain for a lt. heavy guy)
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Dwarfs on lots of drugs have ruined this "sport"
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Dwarfs on lots of drugs have ruined this "sport"
Racist post reported ;D
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kev english is huge,he's like 260 offseason so he's 202 for about 1 minute after weighin and i bet close to 210 to 220 over 2 day period from prejudge to nite show give or take a few lbs ...
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1. Weight classes are used in the NPC, the pro's should mirror the amateurs in terms of classes, etc.
2. Height classes would still give the taller guy the advantage, and thus, not really accomplish what we set out to do.
3. most guys arent at the top of the 202 limit, they're anywhere from the 70's on up from what I've seen...
4. It's 202 because that was the number suggested most at the meeting, I personally think it should be 205 (to allow for a 7 lb. gain for a lt. heavy guy)
Pro's mirror amateurs? sounds backwards to me ???
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1. Weight classes are used in the NPC, the pro's should mirror the amateurs in terms of classes, etc.
2. Height classes would still give the taller guy the advantage, and thus, not really accomplish what we set out to do.
3. most guys arent at the top of the 202 limit, they're anywhere from the 70's on up from what I've seen...
4. It's 202 because that was the number suggested most at the meeting, I personally think it should be 205 (to allow for a 7 lb. gain for a lt. heavy guy)
Why should pros mirror the amateurs? Pro league should set the standard. That's beside the point. If pros should mirror the amateurs there would be weight classes in the pros among other things.
202 was the number suggested at the meeting? Based on what? If under 5'6 what the height limit, how much of an advantage is height going to be? 5'5 vs 5'3?
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I like the height idea too. I think that visually it's easier to compare guys of similar height than guys who may have totally different structures and heights, but all fit in the same weight class.
Also, we talk about how in bodybuilding it's not about how much you weigh or how much you can lift, but how you appear. Height is about appearance and fits in line with this thinking.
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I like the height idea too. I think that visually it's easier to compare guys of similar height than guys who may have totally different structures and heights, but all fit in the same weight class.
Also, we talk about how in bodybuilding it's not about how much you weigh or how much you can lift, but how you appear. Height is about appearance and fits in line with this thinking.
Problem I've always had with height classes, is that 99% of the guys are in the short class, and we would have toney freeman, QT and Dennis wolf battling it out at every show in the tall class....just like years ago in the Olympias...2 guys in the tall, Arnold only competing against no one, etc...
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Problem I've always had with height classes, is that 99% of the guys are in the short class, and we would have toney freeman, QT and Dennis wolf battling it out at every show in the tall class....just like years ago in the Olympias...2 guys in the tall, Arnold only competing against no one, etc...
Good point. I guess it's apples and oranges, or some other kind of fruit, in the end.
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Good point. I guess it's apples and oranges, or some other kind of fruit, in the end.
DOH!!
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Good point. I guess it's apples and oranges, or some other kind of fruit, in the end.
I'll remind you...wasn't it Mike Katz who took 2nd (or last) in the Olympia to Arnold?
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Problem I've always had with height classes, is that 99% of the guys are in the short class, and we would have toney freeman, QT and Dennis wolf battling it out at every show in the tall class....just like years ago in the Olympias...2 guys in the tall, Arnold only competing against no one, etc...
This height class would be for athletes under 5'6. Why? cause they aren't competitive in the open class. These guys have ZERO chance of ever winning the Olympia.
Why put a weight restriction on top of that?
Guys 5'6 and up have an actual chance of being competitive in the open class...as Dexter Jackson at 5'6 was Mr. Olympia.
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Cutoff should be 225lbs
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but bob.. dont you think that it limits what a guys can do.. henry and english are at the limit as is jose.. so are they just supposed to maintain the same look year after year..? why not have a short class.. sorry but most guys in the top ten in the open class are over 5'8.. so why not a short class since essentially that is what it is but place no restrictions on it.. why the restrictions anyway? these are the pros.. we will eventually see the same package brought by henry and others show after show because of a silly weight limit.. it will get boring to say the least..
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but bob.. dont you think that it limits what a guys can do.. henry and english are at the limit as is jose.. so are they just supposed to maintain the same look year after year..? why not have a short class.. sorry but most guys in the top ten in the open class are over 5'8.. so why not a short class since essentially that is what it is but place no restrictions on it.. why the restrictions anyway? these are the pros.. we will eventually see the same package brought by henry and others show after show because of a silly weight limit.. it will get boring to say the least..
Well said. Bob?
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but bob.. dont you think that it limits what a guys can do.. henry and english are at the limit as is jose.. so are they just supposed to maintain the same look year after year..? why not have a short class.. sorry but most guys in the top ten in the open class are over 5'8.. so why not a short class since essentially that is what it is but place no restrictions on it.. why the restrictions anyway? these are the pros.. we will eventually see the same package brought by henry and others show after show because of a silly weight limit.. it will get boring to say the least..
Agreed.... I am a short guy, but it doesn't matter if you have the most genetically gifted short guy at 110% he will always look inferior to a guy 5'10" at 90% just the facts...So the cut off should be 5'6" and let the chips fall where they may...
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I love the 202 class. I believe even English or whoever else that drops weight for it is at a disadvantage next to a guy who built up to it. Lee Priest should be the next 202 champ if he enters.
I want to see the 202 champion pose off against the Olympia selection for the overall winner like in the old days. That way, we can truly have the very best directly compared and a true winner revealed.
But, isn't bodybuilding fixed?
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I love the 202 class. I believe even English or whoever else that drops weight for it is at a disadvantage next to a guy who built up to it. Lee Priest should be the next 202 champ if he enters.
I want to see the 202 champion pose off against the Olympia selection for the overall winner like in the old days. That way, we can truly have the very best directly compared and a true winner revealed.
But, isn't bodybuilding fixed?
Dude, a perfect 202 guy will always look worse than an 260lb. 90% percent guy only due to height
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Dude, a perfect 202 guy will always look worse than an 260lb. 90% percent guy only due to height
Why does the 202 guy have to be short? I know, dumb question, but really, think about how it is supposed to be judged, and thus the overall winner should be scored based on an overall score that looks at more than just mass.
I mean, Arnold did not annihilate Franco did he?
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Why does the 202 guy have to be short? I know, dumb question, but really, think about how it is supposed to be judged, and thus the overall winner should be scored based on an overall score that looks at more than just mass.
I mean, Arnold did not annihilate Franco did he?
Matter of fact he did....The reason why Franco won the short class
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If we had a 22-and-under class this guy would be a 10x Olympia winner.
(http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02/smallbodybuilderBM_450x532.jpg)
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Matter of fact he did....The reason why Franco won the short class
Yeah, but he didn't crush him.
Look at 79 when Zane won the light class and Mentzer won heavies, and Zane won.
But, is bodybuilding fixed? I would think it would be behind the scenes since a Weider guy always wins (Greene will probably be 2010 champ).
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I like the height idea too. I think that visually it's easier to compare guys of similar height than guys who may have totally different structures and heights, but all fit in the same weight class.
Also, we talk about how in bodybuilding it's not about how much you weigh or how much you can lift, but how you appear. Height is about appearance and fits in line with this thinking.
Pictures are wrong...Hide has said he is 5"5 not 5"8...
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.but bob.. dont you think that it limits what a guys can do.. henry and english are at the limit as is jose.. so are they just supposed to maintain the same look year after year..? why not have a short class.. sorry but most guys in the top ten in the open class are over 5'8.. so why not a short class since essentially that is what it is but place no restrictions on it.. why the restrictions anyway? these are the pros.. we will eventually see the same package brought by henry and others show after show because of a silly weight limit.. it will get boring to say the least..
STILL WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT BOB THINKS.. and by the way i respect bob.. just trying to figure out the silly reasoning and limitations behind this class..
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.but bob.. dont you think that it limits what a guys can do.. henry and english are at the limit as is jose.. so are they just supposed to maintain the same look year after year..? why not have a short class.. sorry but most guys in the top ten in the open class are over 5'8.. so why not a short class since essentially that is what it is but place no restrictions on it.. why the restrictions anyway? these are the pros.. we will eventually see the same package brought by henry and others show after show because of a silly weight limit.. it will get boring to say the least..
STILL WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT BOB THINKS.. and by the way i respect bob.. just trying to figure out the silly reasoning and limitations behind this class..
No one is limited...ou can gain as much size and weight as you wish...in the Open class. Sky's the limit...if they think its in their best interest.
I would suggest to any 202 guy to move it up to the open if they think they've maxed themselves out..
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i understand what you are trying to say bob.. but the fact is these guys are usually too short to be very competitive.. so essentially they are stuck.. either they stay looking the same show after show because of a weight limit (which seems silly in a pro division) or venture into the open class and still not be competitive..
most will top out at 215 or so and still be hard pressed to be competitive against the big boys.. but having a short class would at least let them be compared to those of like height.. it just seems like we are "handicapping" the competitors to let others play catch up.. while others are hitting the ceiling of the weight class others are able to play catch up .. so essentially we are wanting them all to weigh the same and be compared.. silly..
i have talked to two of the "big" guys in that division and both are stated the same thing.. they feel trapped a bit.. they cant be compared fairly in the open class (they feel hide has done well) but feel limited in the 202.. one stated that he did not want to be "training to maintain" the rest of his career but felt he might have to..
it seems it would be much more exciting to let these guys come in at the weight they feel is the best for them and let the chips fall where they may.. right now the class is limited and getting boring seeing many of these guys looking the same show after show..
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No one is limited...ou can gain as much size and weight as you wish...in the Open class. Sky's the limit...if they think its in their best interest.
I would suggest to any 202 guy to move it up to the open if they think they've maxed themselves out..
Come on Bob, you, I and everyone else knows they wouldn't be competitive. This is why it should be height and not weight allowing them to put on more size while competing in this class and closing the competitive gap between the classes.